Abundant Death

Summary

Red Scare Podcast Episode Summary: "Abundant Death"

Release Date: December 26, 2024
Hosts: Anna Khachiyan and Dasha Nekrasova

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1. Opening Remarks and Fashion Commentary (00:27 - 05:18)

Anna and Dasha kick off the episode with a casual conversation over a bottle of Giacopola brand rosé. Their discussion swiftly transitions into a critique of social media influencers and fashion trends. They particularly focus on a controversial dress, humorously dubbed the "milkmaid dress," critiquing its quality and societal implications.

Notable Quotes:

• Anna (00:30): "We're drinking a bottle of Giacopola brand rosé that was sent to me..."
• Dasha (03:05): "I resent even, you know, because their whole ploy is like, it's the most talked about dress."

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2. Analysis of Recent School Shootings: Focus on Natalie Ruppno (05:18 - 27:44)

The hosts delve into the tragic school shooting at Abundant Life Christian School in Madison, Wisconsin, perpetrated by Natalie Ruppno. They explore her background, motives, and the broader implications of her actions within the context of societal issues such as mental health and the glorification of mass shooters.

Key Points:

• Natalie Ruppno's Profile: A 15-year-old female shooter with a troubled background, including parental divorce and alleged trauma.
• Manifesto and Motives: Discussion on Ruppno's manifesto, criticisms of its coherence, and her apparent fascination with past shooters like Columbine.
• Impact of Media and Culture: How media coverage and societal obsession with shootings may inadvertently inspire future incidents.

Notable Quotes:

• Dasha (15:13): "Like that girl being like just naturally really thick and looks like an rcram girl."
• Anna (23:03): "Could have been avoided. But is also, like, obviously influenced by, like, the shooter."
• Dasha (27:35): "They’re just gonna get some other guy."

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3. Luigi Mangioni and Terrorism Charges (27:44 - 55:54)

Anna and Dasha shift focus to Luigi Mangioni, another shooter charged with terrorism and murder. They examine the legal classifications of his actions, public reactions, and the inconsistencies in how different shooters are perceived and prosecuted.

Key Points:

• Charges and Legal Implications: Detailed discussion on Mangioni being charged with terrorism, the definition of terrorism, and comparisons to other high-profile cases like Kyle Rittenhouse.
• Public and Media Perception: How supporters of Mangioni view his actions, attributing them to systemic issues, while others see it as clear-cut criminal behavior.
• Death Penalty Debate: Exploration of the ethics and practicalities surrounding capital punishment, especially in cases involving terrorism and mass shootings.

Notable Quotes:

• Dasha (26:24): "Here's the definition of terrorism... That's literally what he did."
• Anna (54:28): "But that's something that the young and the mentally ill share."
• Dasha (60:38): "They have you in there forever."

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4. Death Penalty and Legal System Critique (55:54 - 61:48)

The conversation intensifies as the hosts debate the morality and efficacy of the death penalty. They critique the legal system's inconsistencies, the influence of public opinion, and the potential for wrongful executions.

Key Points:

• Moral Dilemma: Discussion on whether the death penalty is a humane form of punishment or an unethical extension of state power.
• Systemic Flaws: Highlighting issues like prolonged appeals, high costs, and the rare but impactful cases of wrongful executions.
• Public Perception vs. Legal Reality: How public sentiment often clashes with legal definitions and the actual execution of justice.

Notable Quotes:

• Anna (57:25): "But he's like, young and dumb and just having fun."
• Dasha (60:44): "But in practice, it's hard."
• Anna (60:58): "It's not that easy to."

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5. Ethical Boundaries in Therapy: The Case of Natalie Ruppno’s Ex (61:48 - 87:58)

The hosts analyze an article written by Natalie Ruppno's ex-wife, a clinical psychologist, who publicly shares her personal struggles after the divorce that led to Mangioni's actions. They critique her professional ethics, the blurring of personal and professional boundaries, and the societal expectations placed on therapists.

Key Points:

• Public Disclosure: Examination of how Ruppno's ex-wife shared intimate details of her personal life, potentially violating professional ethics.
• Therapeutic Boundaries: The importance of maintaining privacy and professionalism in therapeutic relationships.
• Impact of Personal Trauma: How personal experiences and emotional turmoil can influence professional behavior and public narratives.

Notable Quotes:

• Dasha (77:36): "It's like, I have to say, like, she won in the end."
• Anna (80:26): "She had to, like, she felt she had to acknowledge this new aspect of her reality."
• Dasha (87:12): "She says, while our partnership has changed, our parenthood has not."

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6. Closing Remarks and Final Thoughts (87:58 - 90:39)

As the episode winds down, Anna and Dasha reflect on the discussed topics, expressing their frustrations with societal reactions to tragedies and the complexities of human behavior. They briefly touch upon fashion once more before signing off.

Notable Quotes:

• Anna (89:06): "That sounds reasonable. It's human nature has nothing to do with you, is what I'm saying."
• Dasha (90:02): "Hello. Soon."

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Conclusion

In "Abundant Death," Anna Khachiyan and Dasha Nekrasova engage in a deep and often unsettling exploration of recent mass shootings, delving into the psychological and societal factors that may contribute to such tragedies. They critique media portrayals, legal responses, and personal narratives, offering a blend of cultural commentary and socio-political analysis. The episode underscores the complexities of addressing violence in society, the ethical responsibilities of individuals and institutions, and the pervasive impact of media and cultural narratives on real-world events.

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For more insights and cultural commentary, follow Anna and Dasha on Patreon and their social media accounts @annakhachiyan and @nobody_stop_me.

Transcript

[A]

Merry Christmas.

[B]

Merry Christmas. Cheers.

[A]

Cheers. We're drinking a bottle of Giacopola brand rose that was sent to me through an intern that manages their Instagram. Probably. But let's see.

[B]

It's pretty good. I think everything is good though.

[A]

It's fine.

[B]

It's drinkable. That's my. My only criteria.

[A]

That you can drink it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that it's alcohol.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. No, it's nice. It's full. It's full. It's more full bodied than I prefer.

[B]

It's full bodied. Like Courtney Nish or whatever.

[A]

Who's Courtney Nish?

[B]

She's that girl on Twitter who we can talk about it in the context of like the dress.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Who always creepily posts side by sides of her and Sydney Sweeney being like, this is what real women look like.

[A]

Right, right, right. And then Sydney Sweeney posted that, like, thirst trap.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

With like her. Yeah.

[B]

Respect. Valid works. But like, other than them both being curvy blondes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They have literally nothing in common. Like, totally different body type.

[A]

I assume this girl.

[B]

Totally different dimension.

[A]

Famous actress.

[B]

No. She's like some girl on Twitter.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And she's the one that had the post that was like, gosh, well, I've just. I've been over sexualized since puberty.

[A]

Oh, no.

[B]

Then somebody retweeted it with your tweet.

[A]

It's really timeless.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's. Women can't stop begging people to stop objectifying their amazing tits, ass, pussy. Their nice ass bodies. How dare you? How dare you look at my gorgeous physique.

[B]

She's like one of those girls who's like just naturally really thick and looks like an rcram girl.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But has like perfect proportions in fat distribution and a flat stomach. And she's like, boo hoo. I've been getting ogled since I was a teenager.

[A]

Was she the one modeling the milk? No.

[B]

No. But that girl also clearly was chosen because she sort of looks like Sydney Sweeney.

[A]

She's got the big.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Milkers. Yeah. For sure.

[B]

It was nice to see a hot model.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Model.

[A]

I think hot models are from Bag. Yeah. I resent even, you know, because their whole ploy is like, it's the most talked about dress. And I'm like, you know.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I guess I'll talk about it.

[B]

We should use the red scare dress as a female competition.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

It's just like a garbage bag with a hole cut out on the other side. The dime square dress.

[A]

Yeah. A red scare dress could be very affordable, really cheap.

[B]

Just one of your old daisy dresses. That you're gonna sell in Depop.

[A]

Well, I am gonna sell my Daisy Milkmaid dress. That's, like, a way better version of this eevee dress.

[B]

Yeah. There's, like, Daisy. There's Doen.

[A]

Mm.

[B]

There's Aritzia, frankly.

[A]

I mean, there's a. It's a popular silhouette these days due to the coquette trend.

[B]

I want to say something negative about Evie magazine and their new dress drop, but, like, I have to give credit where it's due. And, like, this one's so much better than the previous one, which was that fugly sundress, because at least it's, like, plain and simple.

[A]

Well, they. The white one is the least offensive, but then they have one in the meme font. Yeah. Not the font.

[B]

Baby blue with the white flowers. Yeah.

[A]

And then another, like, terrible print. But the white one is, like, you know, fine.

[B]

Yeah, I guess that's the one. I would cop.

[A]

If I had to, I'd go on a Etsy, like, Ren Fair store and buy something.

[B]

You could honestly go to, like, one of those hood girl stores like Windsor.

[A]

I'd go to Edict.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'd search Y2K. Sexy on Grail.

[B]

Yeah. And, like, you know, the other thing is, like, respect to them for monetizing.

[A]

Well, they actually have the teal.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

Right. Do they? Not to throw in that accusation.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

But that's what I've heard.

[B]

People in glass houses.

[A]

I mean, I wish.

[B]

What else.

[A]

Do you want to do the get. You want to.

[B]

You want your press the unboxing? Yeah, sure. We can kill some time before we get into.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Open this.

[B]

The black box first. Okay, cool.

[A]

And I got me a darling Christmas ornament that looks like a little pair of ugg boots.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's actually perfect because my color scheme for my tree this year is, like, gold, white, and, like, green a little bit, but it is very, like, gold. It's very maga.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, it's really, like Trump. Trumpian is. Was the vision, but I didn't get my.

[B]

I'm gonna spray myself. I got a perfume.

[A]

I know I always get. You, like, perfume or perfume, but this one, I actually haven't smelled it.

[B]

Okay. That's okay.

[A]

To be honest.

[B]

But I'm gonna put the mic in the wrapping.

[A]

It's some brand called Kumi Gumamina, and they have two of this collection. Anna's pretty.

[B]

It has, like, a black swan.

[A]

Yeah. So I have one with the white swan kind of Anna Dasha thing, and that one's a little more. I'm Wearing it right now, it's a little more like effervescent. And then this one has like. Seems like it's had some more perverted notes.

[B]

The. That's good. It's good.

[A]

Do you like it? Oh, yeah. That's really nice.

[B]

Wait, can you retards hear me? Yeah, it is. It's really good.

[A]

You can smell probably the. That's the White swan one.

[B]

Yeah, that one's more like girly and coquettish. And then this one's more like dark and medicinal.

[A]

Uhhuh.

[B]

Yeah. Good. They just come up with great sense. We should do a red scare scent.

[A]

Honestly, we have all great ideas.

[B]

It's like that one Celine scent, night clubbing that I have that's supposed to it smell like cocaine, but it actually smells like cigarettes. Okay.

[A]

Now I'm opening a package from Paloma Wool.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But is that not.

[B]

No, it is, but it's like a whole gay production.

[A]

Okay. Yeah. And the bottle's so pretty.

[B]

So pretty. Yeah.

[A]

My Muhammad, my Uber driver complimented me on my. On my scent earlier.

[B]

Oh. But like f. It settles into a more feminine and floral scent, which is cool. Yeah, yeah, it's good.

[A]

Oh, very cute. Some gold pointelle socks and some silver pointel socks. Adorable. Thank you.

[B]

And then there's a crap in there.

[A]

There is?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Did I drop it?

[B]

No. Wait. Oh, there, the card. Yeah, it's just a gift card to Paloma Wool.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

Cute.

[A]

I love it. Thank you. I'm always in the market for some perverted little socks I still wear. You got me some like cable knit ones years ago.

[B]

Oh yeah, I love those. I'm like the expert when it comes to random obscure Japanese brands that make kind of perverted Lolita socks. But I wear like Elliot Spitzer black ankle socks that I keep on during sex. I've been doing men really hate.

[A]

I've been doing sock curls.

[B]

What's that?

[A]

It's like you like wrap your hair up and.

[B]

Oh yeah.

[A]

Before you go to sleep. And then in the morning it's like.

[B]

Oh, wavy.

[A]

It's like a tick tock trend. Another kind of female autism thing where I think they love to see the like shiny spiral of the curl. You know, mine are not like always turning out that great.

[B]

It really depends.

[A]

It does. The other day yesterday I slept with sock curls or the night before and I had like pretty nice, like body and like nice way. I like naturally wavy hair.

[B]

So it's like same. Actually.

[A]

I've been enjoying it. Okay. And this, this is really stupid.

[B]

I too have like naturally Wavy hair that I flat iron all the time. Even though I actually don't like having, like, pin straight hair. But I just don't know how to style my hair. So if anybody has, like, styling tips, because I've tried to, you know, how to do a professional blowout, I can't.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, how do you get the back?

[A]

You section it?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. It's really time consuming to actually do the full blot.

[B]

And, like, I go to the hairdressers and I look at black wing gummy volumes. What is this?

[A]

Okay. Black wings are the best pencil you can get. It's with Stanley Kubrick's favorite pencil.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And this is a collab they did with Jerry Garcia.

[B]

Oh, thank you. That's so thoughtful.

[A]

So I guess the pencils have his, like, art on.

[B]

So funny.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, they're really cute. Can. Can somebody explain to me how the Grateful Dead, as kind of like a hippie, dippy, vaguely anti capitalist franchise, has so many, like, endorsements and franchises? Like, every brand has a collabo with the Grateful Dead.

[A]

Well, Jerry's dad.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But he didn't really make these pencils.

[B]

No, of course not. But I'm gonna pretend he did. But people are always like, they have. There's like, Lucky brand has one, Slow Tide has one.

[A]

I thought that Apron ceramics, like, got the rights to maybe, like, the logo.

[B]

Wait, online ceramics?

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Okay. The, like, T shirt you said opening ceramics, which is. No, it's a really cool Freudian slip. Because you were thinking of opening ceremony.

[A]

Yeah, I think they got it. They did a very smart bid on, like, the actual iconography. Yeah, that's why they make all the Dead shirts.

[B]

But.

[A]

Yeah, but yeah, they're just.

[B]

Yeah, there's so many.

[A]

They'll do anything.

[B]

It's so hard not to. Like, Leia has some, like, puffy Grateful Dead slippers that I'm not gonna buy because I can't. Like, it's too much. This is more subtle.

[A]

Yeah, just a nice Jerry Garcia red.

[B]

Scare ex Grateful Dead collab. I'm sorry, I'm like, would Jerry have liked Luigi?

[A]

Maybe. Remember when we had Ann Coulter on and you asked her about the dad and she said she liked how entrepreneurial they were with the veggie burritos and.

[B]

The cool T shirts.

[A]

And I was like, yeah, that makes sense.

[B]

They have amazing merch. It just, like, brings joy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To have, like, a Grateful Dead blanket or a Grateful Dead pair of low rise cutoffs.

[A]

So cute, right? So the manifesto that we talked about last time that Luigi wrote Was fake. My bad.

[B]

No, we said it was fake, but there was a real. That we also cited.

[A]

Yeah. But then I still, you know, I already did. I already read. I'm so glad.

[B]

I actually only like digression. But I only really wear randomly. Strangely, the Chloe Regime perfume. I love that one that I got for free because I went to the product launch party and, like, didn't really care. I wasn't expecting to like it, let alone get it. But just like, it's like my stock thing that I wear now and I want another one to have in rotation. That's like an everyday perfume.

[A]

I have that one. I wear it more in the summer.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I've been wearing more of like a patchouli sense in the winter.

[B]

But anyway, you were saying the manifesto.

[A]

Yeah, my bad. I went on that guy Josh Citarella's podcast and he asked me, like, what ethical responsibility podcasters have as like having usurped, you know, the real news. And I was like, huh? He's like the quality of information that you. I was like, you just say whatever.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, people aren't listening to this for the news.

[B]

It's an entertainment show.

[A]

Yeah. I don't have to like issue corrections, but vaguely I am because I. But yeah, that wasn't. He didn't write that substack post I read. But there's a lot of disinformation out there.

[B]

Well, yeah, I mean, there's the new manifesto from.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The most recent FEMCEL shooter that. We'll talk about that. Like that radfam that I mentioned here and there. Anna Slats posted and watermarked, which I thought was really random and bizarre.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, what's up with that? But if Luigi Manifesto was retarded, did that.

[A]

Was that the one that implicated Rad from Hitler?

[B]

It didn't.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah. That's also fake news.

[A]

That was just a rumor. And then also there's a photo of me circulating. Yeah, I saw that in like Spanish and Chinese media.

[B]

Well, because somebody made a meme. Yeah. That was like clearly a joke. And then they just run with it. ESL journalists. Yeah, ran with it.

[A]

Alex Seblis got like an ESL email from like some Spanish being like, can you confirm that this is not the shooter? But I was. I knew what I was doing with the joker.

[B]

D. Yeah, I was asking, honest.

[A]

And you think I look 15, but. Yeah, but you can't really blame a 15 year old for having a shitty manifesto.

[B]

No.

[A]

And it sounds like she though some.

[B]

Of the wording and grammar was like, oh, they really didn't teach you how to write at school.

[A]

Her parents are too busy getting divorced and remarried. And remarried.

[B]

And having boyfriends and girlfriends. Yeah, that's something you don't see every day.

[A]

That's the craziest.

[B]

Yeah, like, I understand, like, being a child of divorce. That's common. All too common. But, like, your parents getting divorced and remarried sounds like drug addiction, which she alludes to because she talks about, like, witnessing her mom overdose when she was 12. Allegedly.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But anyway.

[A]

Right. And she has a selfie that's been circulating as well as a photo that her father posted on Facebook of her at, like, a shooting range wearing a KMFDM D shirt, which the columbine shooters wore. And allegedly, she was also a big true crime fan.

[B]

Oh, I thought you were gonna say she was a big neo Nazi.

[A]

I don't think she was a neo Nazi.

[B]

Well, her manifesto is, like, kind of racist. Yeah, she drops hard R. She makes a pajit joke.

[A]

She's online.

[B]

Yeah, she seems extremely online.

[A]

I mean, it's sad.

[B]

Wait, so now we both have a female mass shooter that we may or may not be associated with People. Every time this happens, people are like, oh, you're just jealous that no one cited you guys in their manifesto. And I'm just like, no, please. I literally live in fear of that happening. I'm gonna be so. Oh, God, now I've, like, put it out into the ether.

[A]

No, no, no. What would they even say? We're not. This is a podcast of peace.

[B]

Yeah, we are big time pacifists.

[A]

You know, on the show, maybe. Yeah, no, we can. We. No one. But she did. Okay, so then people said that rad fem Hitler inspired. They're calling her the fem soul shooter. Well, okay, but then Redfam Hitler deleted her account.

[B]

Yeah, she deactivated, I guess because of fear of reprisal and doxing, but that.

[A]

Made it seem credible.

[B]

Yeah. Sketchy. Yeah.

[A]

But I don't think it is the case that she was a follower of Radham Hitler's.

[B]

Yeah, who knows? That's a good. Well, okay, a question I have for you is, can you be a femcel if you have a boyfriend?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because the way that Anna Slats got her grubby little paws on the authent on the Authentic. Authentic manifesto.

[A]

Allegedly.

[B]

Was that allegedly Natalie, AKA Samantha Ropno. Her boyfriend sent it to slots with, like, a video of him uploading it to confirm its authenticity, which, like.

[A]

Okay, yeah, okay. Hard to say, but you can be a femcel. And have a boyfriend.

[B]

Yeah. You would think it's a state of. Or is an unambiguous no, but it's actually kind of a yes.

[A]

Maybe he was an Internet boyfriend, even.

[B]

Yeah. There was a weird moment where Slats tweeted that the photo, like, the selfie going around of this girl was not how he remembered her, and that she was actually hotter, quite hotter, and that it. It seemed to him that it was edited to make her look less attractive. And he provided another photo of her wearing the same T shirt in the.

[A]

Same room, looking slightly better.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Really weird.

[B]

Yeah. And it's like. What do you mean? Like how you remembered her. Like, you know how when kids are in high school, they spend, like, every day together?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I guess you could say, like, it's a turn of phrase. And right now that she's no longer with us. Yeah.

[A]

Right, Right. But maybe they didn't go to school together. Unclear.

[B]

That's fair.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

I guess if you have a strictly Internet boyfriend, then you can be a FEMCEL boyfriend. Yeah.

[A]

It's kind of a state of mind.

[B]

Yeah. That's what I think too, though, kind of. Ideally, the whole point of having a boyfriend is that it.

[A]

They blow your back out.

[B]

Yeah. And it prevents you from doing stuff like shooting other people and then turning the gun on yourself.

[A]

Ideally, yeah. But not always, as we've learned in this case.

[B]

Okay, so I'm gonna pull up my. My notes on this girl. Yeah. So she is called Natalie Ruppno, but went by the name Samantha Ruppno. She shot up the Abundant Life Christian School in Madison, Wisconsin. She killed a substitute teacher student and then killed herself and injured six other people. Blah, blah. 15. Neo Nazi inspired by Columbine. Extremely online. Her parents divorced and remarried. Originally, people were reporting that she was trans, but she's not. Yeah, she just clearly has some kind of hormonal imbalance. I mean, it's rare to find a woman who goes through with a. Like, not only in terms of killing yourself, but killing others.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

In a really violent and masculine way.

[A]

But relatively low body count.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Which is kind of the. Didn't. The female.

[B]

The YouTube shooter didn't kill anyone but herself.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Unlike us, our shooter doppelgangers have very low body.

[A]

Yeah. To me, I mean, it's like the milkmaid dress. It's like, this seems like a tragedy that is.

[B]

Could have been avoided.

[A]

Could have been avoided. But is also, like, obviously influenced by, like, the shooter. I mean, like, by the culture around school shootings.

[B]

Yeah. And the culture that foments on the Internet specifically.

[A]

And in, you know, true crime, she had macabre interests. But it's the same thing where it's like everyone's talking about the dress. It's like everyone's talking about every shooting, which then, you know, inspires people to do shootings.

[B]

Well, yeah, because young people and. Or mentally ill people get it into their heads that they will become a person of some repute if they pull it off, like on the Internet. I mean, it's like, you know, my take on Luigi, like, he clearly did it for attention because he understood on a subconscious level that again, it would generate a meme cycle, turn him into a folk hero. I'm sure in his own mind he felt he was a true believer, but there's no evidence to suggest either way that he was.

[A]

Oh, he's. Yeah. Succeeded. I heard there were people wearing Luigi, like Mario and Luigi hats.

[B]

I saw some of that. Cause I was walking by the courthouse the other day and there was all these like, news cameras and paparazzi. And I was like, what's going on here? Who's on trial? Like Diddy. And I didn't put two and two together until I like walked right up on it that it was like the Luigi thing. And there was like already like a lot of fans assembled.

[A]

Crazy.

[B]

And they had like little signs and hats. They're going to make one of those AOC RBG votive candles of him.

[A]

And so he's being charged with terrorism.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which is what he did.

[B]

Yeah, that's another. Yeah, he. He's charged with terrorism in addition to murder. And then he was also hit with federal charges, which I guess means he's eligible for the death penalty. So, you know, he's loving this.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

No, don't kill yourself. You're so sexy. Haha.

[A]

Sexy and heroic.

[B]

Hasan Piker, among other retards, registered shock and disbelief that he was being charged with terrorism. There seems to be like a lot of confusion on this matter. Like, leftists in particular see this as evidence of persecution versus it being like a literal classification.

[A]

And isn't the reason they like him because he did care? Because he did politically motivated violence. Like, they.

[B]

Yeah. Are on board. Had the best take, which was that if he wasn't doing violence in pursuit of political goals, terrorism, then why do you like him?

[A]

Well said.

[B]

Yep. But you hear a lot of people being like, oh, this is like the ruling class closing ranks around its own and shamelessly protecting their interests. Which, like, even if you hate them, can you blame Them, But I don't think that's what's going on here. Like, he literally did the textbook definition of terrorism.

[A]

Yeah. He sought out to do it.

[B]

Here's the definition of terrorism, in case anyone's wondering. The unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims. That's literally what he did.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like he stalked and killed a civilian.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

For political ends. Or to send a political message. And, like, you can be like, oh, that guy was like a rich and successful CEO, but he wasn't like an elected official or a foreign ambassador. He was not a political figure. Even if you think the whole healthcare conversation is or should be politicized.

[A]

Well, here's some quotes from his supporters who gathered outside the courthouse. As far as I see it, Luigi killed one person, but health insurance companies destroy millions of lives. Meryl, a 34 year old programmer, told the Post that he held a free Luigi sign. Frankly, I'd have another CEO killer on the streets than another CEO. But, like, there's gonna be another CEO. There's.

[B]

Yeah, they're just gonna get some other guy.

[A]

That's just someone who's in charge of the company.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You don't want a seat. You don't want CEOs.

[B]

That kind of has to happen. Yeah, there was one that I, like, quote, tweeted, it's crazy. He killed one person, made sure no one else got hurt, and did it for a cause that's harming pretty much everyone in our country. Unless you're rich. Why is he a terrorist but Kyle Rittenhouse is not? He fully fired on a crowd of people and gets praised by Trumpy's loser. This thing has like 300,000 likes. Yeah, it really makes you, like, lose your faith in humanity when people talk like this. Not even because they hold different beliefs than you do, and you would rather that most people agreed with you, but because they're just, like, literally incapable of rationally processing information.

[A]

They can't see how things are different.

[B]

Different? Yeah, like they can't examine one set of facts and weigh them against another totally separate set of facts and set aside the surface level similarities to understand how they are meaningfully different. It's crazy.

[A]

It is. Yeah.

[B]

And I wanted to be like, no, it's not like, I wanted to do my, like, Virgo over explaining and be like. But no, like, actually, technically, Kyle Rittenhouse did not fire into a crowd indiscriminately. He was chased by a mob and he acted in self defense. But then I was like, oh, wait, no, actually this person is totally correct in her view of the world because her life must be crazy because she does not understand how the world works.

[A]

Well, her life's probably pretty normal.

[B]

Yeah. But like her perception of reality must feel like it's possessed by like demons and aliens because like nothing adds up. She can't understand how things work.

[A]

Well, I'm the Christmas market in Germany.

[B]

Oh. Yeah.

[A]

I like caught wind of it peripherally, you know. And then Maddie told me today that the guy wasn't Muslim.

[B]

Oh, yeah, that's so interesting. I mean, he is like.

[A]

I mean, but he was. The reason he allegedly carried out his attack was because he thought Islam.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Was becoming too prominent in. He was doing anti Islamic.

[B]

Yeah. It's very interesting. He's a terrorism. He. Much like Lily J. The ex wife of the guy who left her for Ariana Grande.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He was a clinical psychologist and an anti Islamic activist.

[A]

And an asylum. He came to Germany on asylum.

[B]

Yeah. And his from Saudi Arabia with. With Germany was that they treated Muslim migrants and refugees relatively well and accepted them with open arms and open hearts, but viewed people like him who were anti Islam whistleblowers sounding the alarm with suspicion because they have very serious, highly punishable hate speech laws because they're still guilt tripping off of the Holocaust.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So there are all these stories from Germany of like a woman going to jail because she said anti Islamic things about her rapists, but her rapists like getting like a fine and a slap on the wrist, like this kind of stuff.

[A]

Yeah. He. The. He was described as a well known anti Islam and women's activist in his German community.

[B]

Yeah. That story is like super interesting because.

[A]

That'S another thing where I was like, you know. Yeah, I didn't, I didn't. What?

[B]

Yeah, no, no, he's like you where.

[A]

He wants to be the last immigrant. Slam the door shut. He doesn't want anymore.

[B]

The alleged suspect in Magdeburg is an anti Muslim activist who is pro Israel and a supporter of the far right AfD party. The 50 year old fled Saudi Arabia in 2006 because of his activism for atheism. Accused Germany of persecuting him and not stopping Islamicization. So basically he's like not like the other girls and gets mad because.

[A]

Pick me.

[B]

Yeah, he's a pick me. Because he gets. He gets treated worse than practicing Muslims as a former Muslim due to Germany's like hate speech. Yeah. Like post war guilt trip tolerance thing. Right.

[A]

Germany seems like a mess, man.

[B]

It does. Yeah.

[A]

This happened in 2016. Yeah. It did some. I think in that case, it was maybe a radical Islamist. Islamist. But it drove. Same thing. Drove into a. Yeah. Christmas market.

[B]

Okay. He's, like, technically not Muslim, but he's not really doing Muslims any favors because he's using, like, historically, Muslim means you can't. To send a message.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which, you know, not to be racist, but makes it seem like being Muslim is something that's not a spiritual matter, but rather something deeper that's, like, in your blood. I'm not personally arguing that point, but you can see how it may look like that.

[A]

He's not beating the Muslim. Yeah.

[B]

He's not.

[A]

By driving a car into a crowd.

[B]

At a Christmas market.

[A]

Yeah. Certainly seems.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, the fact that he had, like, kind of secular, pro Western beliefs makes it even scarier in a way, because otherwise you could just chalk up his crime to garden variety religious extremism.

[A]

Normal jihad. We all live in fear of it.

[B]

You know, but there's no point in, like, psychoanalyzing those people. We get it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They believe. They believe.

[A]

Yeah. But no, this is even scarier.

[B]

Curious.

[A]

And yeah. Much like Luigi Natalie, the would be Trump assassin. These, like, latest crop of killers.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Feel very, like, disjointed.

[B]

Yeah. They feel like ideolog and schizoid. It's almost like Zizek voice. Like, kind of like an aperture into modern neuroses. And like, the breakdown of. It's like, what. What was that? Like, famous arty. Not arty line. Arty Lang line. The. The only sane response to an insane world is insanity.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's how this feels like he's like a symptom or a symbol of, like, modern hysteria and breakdown.

[A]

The mind reels.

[B]

Yeah. Because he, like, can't cope with, like, the conditions of modernity or whatever.

[A]

Post modernity.

[B]

I sound like Josh Citarella now. When we. When we announced that we were doing the event with Dean Kissack, for Harper's, people got really mad and they were like, why are Anna and Dasha even qualified to speak on art?

[A]

Come on.

[B]

And I was like, well, she's an artist. And I used to hang out with, like, Brad Tramell and Josh Citarella. I come out of the post Internet scene, y'all.

[A]

That's how I met Dean Kissig. Yeah. Post Internet scene. You went to school for art history.

[B]

Yeah, I forgot about that. See, I even purged that from my memory.

[A]

But that shouldn't even be a matter of qualifying. It's. We're art hoes.

[B]

Yeah, that's true.

[A]

So we're the most qualified to speak on the state of Contemporary Art fair. No, I got to read a book or something before that. I got to figure out what I'm going to say.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

How to Google art, Come up with a little dossier.

[B]

Yeah. Like. Yeah. The Duchamp toilet. The. Who's that other guy who made a goal toilet?

[A]

I don't know. Jeff Koons.

[B]

No, it's. What's his name? He's like Italian or Spanish. Friends with Jamie. He was like a big wig, blue chip artist a while back. Yeah, blah, blah, blah. But yeah, it's. It's kind of interesting that all three of these shooters have kind of the same mind frame in spite of being like radically different people. Like, you have like a 15 year old, like white girl, a 50 year old, like Gen X, Saudi Arabian activists, and like a hot, young, seemingly well adjusted turbo normie guy. And they all three of them like suffer from main character syndrome.

[A]

Yeah. In Natalie's case, it's natural.

[B]

It is understandable because of how young she is and how traumatized she was. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Like a teen girl already is so volatile.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then you just. It's. It was a really messed up mix of circumstances and influence. But all teens have main character syndrome.

[B]

Yeah. And then hopefully you grow out of it. But that's why teens often do crazy and destructive things and don't understand the consequences.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'm gonna get in trouble for saying this, but of all of the. The shooters, probably I have the most sympathy for her.

[A]

Yeah, of course, Luigi. I'm sort of sympathetic too. Just because I think he didn't have the, as I said, the constitution, not only for the chronic pain, but for. Yeah. Like not being able to.

[B]

Yeah. Like a life of the mind.

[A]

He wasn't.

[B]

He wanted to be out there like surfing and shagging.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, I got it.

[B]

But yeah, I was thinking something and we're like already so drunk.

[A]

I know. We have to. Cool. We have to go to dinner.

[B]

Yeah. It makes me Sad. Like this 15 year old girl where I, like, I read her manifesto and she in it she calls humanity filth and scum. Like Travis Bickle, monologue style.

[A]

She's Schopenhauerian.

[B]

My favorite part is there will always be a reason for this and reasons for other shootings. Unless it's some Indian guy who just wanted to blow up for the fun of it, which is what those people do. So she kind of like predicted the Christmas market shooter. She calls her therapist, some fat and weak guy who doesn't Deserve anything. And she claims her mom tried to overdose when she was 12. Her dad apparently disapproved of her, and her mom, like, apparently ignored her in favor of her boyfriend. She was picked on at school. She claims that none of these traumas really affected her. And I just want to be like, oh, honey, you are so clearly lonely and depressed.

[A]

Yeah, of course. Aww.

[B]

But also, like, then I have to stop myself and be like, well, she did go the extra mile and actually take it upon herself to kill other people.

[A]

Meaning what?

[B]

Well, like, she did go there. Like, most people in her position, like, seethe and stew but don't actually kill anyone.

[A]

Yeah. Well, they grow up and they, you know, they process the sort of unpleasantness of their, like, formative pubescent years.

[B]

And I want to, like, reach back in time like with baby Hitler and hold her and shake her and be like, you think you're the only one who has problems and issues?

[A]

Maybe if she had listened to Red Scare.

[B]

Yeah. None of this would have ever happened.

[A]

None of this would have happened.

[B]

But that's something that the young and the mentally ill share. That's like the key feature that they share, which is why youth dovetails nicely with mental illness, which is like an inability to put yourself in the shoes of other people, AKA empathy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, it. It literally doesn't occur to them that all these other people walking around who, again, on the surface, seem well adjusted and indifferent and lacking in empathy for your struggle and suffering, all have problems and issues of their own, but have learned to mask them not just out of, like, convenience or pride, but out of maturity and benevolence. Because they know that you can't inflict that on other people and you have to preserve social harmony.

[A]

Yeah. Don't punish others for your personal hatred.

[B]

Yeah. Like, what makes you think that all these, like, Chads and Stacy's that you see walking around your Christian school have it so easy?

[A]

I mean, it doesn't even seem quite that coherent. She seemed like she was obsessed with school shooters.

[B]

She was. She like, cited a number of them or like mass shooters in her manifesto.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So she did possibly like. Yeah. Have like. She seems like she was probably a female autist.

[A]

That's a good. Yeah. She has the physiognomy. Yeah.

[B]

You can sort of tell by looking at her because she's like, so then that pretty and cute young girl, but there's something off about her expression where she's like a little dead behind the eyes.

[A]

Yeah. There's an. Something broken with the empathy receptor that can't just be chalked up to being young. Exactly. Let me see. I forgot what I was gonna say.

[B]

But, yeah, it's weird that there is a shooter now who is both a child and a woman. Yeah, it's weird that there's a terrorist now who is anti Islamic. And it's weird that there's this vigilante guy who is handsome and bright and seems well adjusted.

[A]

Very unusual political realignments left and right happening. It's a big, dangerous world out there.

[B]

But it's funny because I think, like, people have already forgotten the Christmas market guy and the Abundant life girl. And everyone's eyes are on Luigi because he just like mogs in every photo.

[A]

Yeah. Have more details emerged?

[B]

No, about.

[A]

I. I read. Yeah. That they like, we have some more insight into his motive and how long he had been planning it, but nothing more.

[B]

I mean, sometimes there's no motive or the motive is incoherent. And it is a very true crime thing to search for a motive.

[A]

Well, he had one. It just didn't. Well, he, like, depending on who you ask, it made doesn't. Or, yeah, does make sense.

[B]

And yeah, like, I will die on the Hill that he did it for attention, maybe unwittingly, unknowingly. But guess what? It worked.

[A]

He should have read, like 10 more books.

[B]

I don't think it would have even helped him in his case.

[A]

I think he gleaned a lot of information from, like, a specific subset of, you know, and that's what apparently he said. Yeah, he was like, health care. This is it. This is like the stars are aligning. He felt strongly that this. That Brian Thompson was the person.

[B]

Why?

[A]

Because of insurance and because United Healthcare has the biggest profit margins and denies the most coverage. And then he, as the CEO, I guess, is responsible for implementing those mandates and then has made the most money, was probably the Luigi math, I guess.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's crazy. His name is Matty. Also brought up a good point that when he was born, like, Mario and Luigi was a thing, you know?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Maybe it's a family name, but it is a little crazy that he's named Luigi.

[B]

Wait, why? It's definitely just a family name. I don't think his family name, because.

[A]

Luigi the plumber was very much in the public consciousness.

[B]

I mean, it's just like a really bizarre and outdated Ellis island name to have in this day and age. As a sumer. Yeah. This is a really funny interaction that I saw on Twitter. After reviewing the facts, it seems the guy was just a retarded. Arab with grievances that don't make much sense.

[A]

Wait, which guy?

[B]

Well, he's talking about the Christmas Magdeburg whatever shooting, and then some guy responds. But enough about Manjoni. That's so true, Kate.

[A]

So funny. Yeah, stay safe out there over the holidays, you guys.

[B]

Well, I was, like, chimping because some girl made the point that when they do the biopic, the best man to play Luigi Al Pacino.

[A]

I get what she means.

[B]

And I was like, that's such an insult to the beauty of Al Pacino, which is timeless and memorial. He looks like a Byzantine mosaic. And Luigi Mangioni, like, I'm not going to split hairs and be an annoying bitch about it and pretend he's not attractive because he clearly is.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But, you know, he looks like a guy in the Jersey Shore or one of Victoria Gotti's sons.

[A]

Yeah, there's a reason he's not, like.

[B]

He'S hot in a contemporary, cheap Houthi pirate way. Yeah, he's not Al Pacino.

[A]

He's no Al Pacino. But that's, you know, a biopic. Every actor, you know.

[B]

Well, no, the more I thought about it, the more I thought, like, hey, actually, she has a point. Because Al Pacino, only Al Pacino could really do that whole, like, overheated and kinetic portrayal of, like, a man, like, suffering through ecstasy and agony.

[A]

Well, we have Dog Day Afternoon.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

And I watched this movie, John Q.

[B]

Have you heard of this?

[A]

With Denzel Washington, where he haven't seen it, but takes a hospital hostage because his son has, like, a rare heart condition and the insurance won't pay for it. And in this case, I think it's Anne Heche. She's like the insurance executive.

[B]

She's dead now, right?

[A]

She died tragically recently. But, yeah, she's, you know, like, looking Denzel Washington in the eyes and is, like, crying wife and being like, I'm sorry, but healthcare costs money and your son just has to leave, you know? And they're like, we. He needs. He can't get the specialized wheelchair transplant. You know, and they're like, they were kicking him out of the hospital. And it's like, I'm like, oh, that's before all the stuff about Luigi came to light. You know, I, in naive good faith assumed. Yeah. That there literally was, like, some insurance. Like, Brian Thompson at one point looked Luigi in the eyes and said, like, sorry, man, no health care for you specifically, but that's.

[B]

You and your mother are going to suffer through chronic pain forever. We can't do anything. In fact, we derive like sexual pleasure from denying you coverage. Me personally. Like that's what you assume. Yeah.

[A]

And there's like. Yeah, the slick doctor played by James woods, who's like gladly giving the heart transplants to his golf buddies and stuff. It's like the, the morality is so. And he's. He works like a steel mill and he's, you know, initially he's trying to come up with the money for the working class.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then.

[B]

And this is before GoFundMe.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So he's like going through all the proper channels and trying to do. And then he gets pushed too far and then he just takes the hospital hostage.

[B]

Great uplifting story. That's why it's a movie and not real life.

[A]

Yeah, but that's. Yeah, that's like what the Luigi movie will be. Would have to be for it to be.

[B]

It's going to be Adam Driver.

[A]

Interesting. Adam Driver would be good.

[B]

But I was thinking the other thing about Al Pacino is that he had maybe one of the most beautiful faces of all time.

[A]

Mm.

[B]

It's weird and random. And he was beautiful in spite of himself because he was like a 5 foot 4 pear shaped manlet Sicilian from the Bronx.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

With like a criminal record and nothing in the sky is like history or genetics would say that he would be like transcendently beautiful. And Luigi Mangioni, I was thinking is allegedly, according to many sources, six foot one, which put some right there with Daniel Penny. But he's. I heard he was shorter, but he's not. He's not medically short, but he's. He has this very unique and spectacular character quality that he reads is a lot shorter than he really is.

[A]

I don't think he's 6 1. He looks like he's 4 7. Yeah.

[B]

Okay. But he looks like he's.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Al Pacino height.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So actually the casting, if you could. One of these guys like Coppola or Scorsese has to do the Luigi Mangioni film, but like do the anti aging technology on Al Pacino specifically.

[A]

I mean, I don't really want to see the Luigi Mangioni film.

[B]

I think it could actually be.

[A]

How long do you think this is going to be in the.

[B]

I mean, longer than I predicted because I was expecting him to be done in a week. But like there's going to be a trial and.

[A]

Yeah. How big of a loser do you have to be to like make this guy your folk here? Actually.

[B]

I weirdly get it and I have sympathy because I'M such an empath and can put myself in the shoes of normie retards. But I get it. He's, like, young, handsome, had his whole life ahead of him.

[A]

Yeah. But what's that gotta end with you?

[B]

Well, in my mind, it's one thing.

[A]

To support him kind of passively. I think there was some. Some justice.

[B]

Well, in my mind, I'm like, yeah, this is sad and it sucks, but, like, he literally murdered a guy in cold blood and therefore must face consequences. But I think, like, people, they're like, well, he is being unjustly persecuted and should walk free because I personally find him hot and likable. And it's kind of like the inverse of what I was yapping about on the last episode where, you know, a lot of people told me, like, yeah, actually, when I think about it, the sentence Derek Chauvin got is a little bit overblown, but he should be in prison for something because I find him personally unlikable and he has bad vibes.

[A]

He had that look on his face.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That people don't like. But, you know, there's some pictures of Luigi where he's looking a little, you know, seething and crazed.

[B]

Yeah. I was thinking about that.

[A]

People really editorialize the way they want to valorize people.

[B]

Yeah. He's giving Al Pacino and Dog Day afternoon.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But, yeah, I. I try not to, like, even overthink or over analyze those photos because I don't want to, like, project my preconceptions onto the sky, honestly. Because it feels, like, dirty and sordid.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And, like, who knows what he's thinking? What's going through his head at any given moment when he's, like, snapped by courtroom photographers.

[A]

Sure. Yeah.

[B]

Like, who knows?

[A]

No, no, no, I'm not saying.

[B]

And I'm sure you can find an angle of anyone where they look like evil and seething and nefarious and plenty of those of me.

[A]

Yeah. I'm like, that's not fair.

[B]

Which is, by the way, is not a defense of Luigi Mangioni. Because I don't like him and think he committed a crime and think he should be punished accordingly. I.

[A]

Don'T dislike him, but do think he's a criminal who is, you know, just.

[B]

Who should face the consequences of his actions for the benefit of all of society. Not to punish him specifically.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And, like, people don't understand this. They're like, oh, yeah. Like, personally, I find him to be, like, not only attractive, but, like a positive role model or something. So therefore, he should walk it's just.

[A]

Not how it works.

[B]

Well, it is how. That's like, actually how like. Which is why that girl being like, it's crazy how Luigi. But Kyle, like, she's actually right in a weird way. Because you can say, like, facts aren't feelings, but also feelings aren't facts.

[A]

Yeah. I forget that. Yeah. And you're like, I often think my feelings are facts, actually.

[B]

Yeah. We all do. But you have to, like, zoom out and be like, wait a minute. There's actually like a completely more like plausible and mundane narrative for why things happen the way they did.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Anyway, but like, people are acting like Luigi is getting like, the book thrown at him and that's just simply not the case.

[A]

He's. Yeah. Took matters into his own hands. Seems seemingly wanted to get caught and now is facing the repercussions, which he's probably enjoying. Yes. He was of sound enough mind.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

To do the deny, depose whatever bullet case things he was. You know, it's just if I was a lawyer. Be a very easy case if I was a judge for a juror, I mean.

[B]

Yeah. But he's like, young and dumb and just having fun. And it hasn't fully sunk in what it means to be on trial facing the death penalty.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The death penalty is like a separate thing that I think about a lot. I was thinking about this in the shower the other day, like, reflecting. Because it's like Christmas time. Mentally ill. Like, how I'm against abortion in principle, but I can't be against it in practice.

[A]

But you're for the death.

[B]

In principle.

[A]

Yeah, but in practice. Yeah, it's hard.

[B]

But I. Well, there are certain crimes that absolutely deserve and warrant the death penalty, such as like rape, murdering a woman and. Or a child. But it really freaks me out and I could be wrong that the state is allowed to play God.

[A]

Well, it's just there's so many problems with the legal system that in practice. Right. Like, even if one person is wrongly executed, then the whole premise of the death penalty is unethical, you know?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's like. I guess what I'm getting at. And so, like, I just, like, shut my mouth and try to, like, and like, take the. What's. Sorry, I'm so drunk.

[A]

High road.

[B]

No, no, no. I like, just follow the lead of, like, various men in my orbit who are much less confused and ambiguous feeling about an emotional and are just like, yeah, like, certain people just deserve the death penalty. And she got it. And it's like, you know, you look at like these Innocence Project guys and just assume that they're innocent because they're associated with something called the Innocence Project. So you're like, oh yeah, they're like wrongfully accused and this is unfair and it's systemic racism. And you're like, you look at what they're actually convicted of and it's like, oh, he sealed a mother and daughter in the trunk of a car and set the car on fire. But not before raping them both.

[A]

But yeah, but then there's always something.

[B]

Like, but he was a 19 year old street artist from Detroit when he did it.

[A]

And like, and usually there's some.

[B]

He was under house and under resources.

[A]

That happens with dia, you know, then it's like they, they. Yeah, no, there's a large effort, it seems. I don't know, like how many people are, have been wrongfully executed actually in history.

[B]

But like very small amount of people.

[A]

But the impression one would get through the like, initiatives and lobbies of stuff like the Innocence Projects and like Liz Bruinig, you know, it's like every black.

[B]

Guy in death row is wrongfully accused.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which is crazy and not true. Like a lot of them did do a crazy home invasion where they raped and murdered the whole family and then made off with like a TV and an iPhone. Like that's fact.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But still I have this like woman thing where I'm like, I think nervous and squeamish about death penalty.

[A]

I mean, I'm not like bullish on it, you know, I'm not like, I don't think Luigi needs to be executed.

[B]

Well, that was one of the, I guess you like. Yeah, I would be okay with him spending the rest of his life in prison. I don't know that he needs to be executed.

[A]

That's like, he could, you know, I don't think, yeah, he did the crime, he does the time, but I don't think he is like, you know, past the point of personal redempt. Like, you know, I don't think he's a danger to society. It needs to be. You know, I think if you're in jail and you hurt or kill someone, or jail, prison, whatever, then I always.

[B]

Forget what the difference is.

[A]

You should get the death penalty because at that point you've proven that you can't even be incarcerated. And the death penalty is more humane than like solitary, in my opinion.

[B]

Yeah. And like, I wonder, you know what like the final tab is for keeping someone in prison for life versus executing them is. They're both really costly to taxpayers.

[A]

I Think Djokhart's Harnev is on death.

[B]

Row, but can you get a sentence commuted?

[A]

I'm not sure we should fact check.

[B]

This, but I assume. But whatever.

[A]

But. Yeah, but that even being on death row is decades of appeals and it's a long. You know.

[B]

Yeah. They have you in there forever.

[A]

It's not that easy to.

[B]

Feeding you, clothing you. Yeah, they're. Yeah, there's an appeal system, whatever. And like this leftist thing where they're like, why is he getting hit with a terrorism charge when he only killed one guy versus school shooters who kill multiple people. Well, and it's like. Well, it's like the intention, the premeditation.

[A]

And when's the last time a school shooter got a lenient sentence?

[B]

Yeah, and it's usually school shooters turn.

[A]

The gun on themselves.

[B]

They're showing preference to the Brian Johnson's of the world versus the Sandy Hook kids of the world. That's not like what's going on here.

[A]

No, that's bonkers.

[B]

It has to do with the nature of the crime.

[A]

Yeah. And most school shooters do the death penalty on themselves.

[B]

Yeah, that's true.

[A]

But I can't remember the last sentence. Like survive.

[B]

Yeah. Well, yeah. This girl turned the gun on herself and it's. What was I gonna say? Oh, yeah. It was very shocking. The one thing that stood out to me in her. I was gonna say her memoir or manifesto. I guess a manifesto is a memoir of sorts. Yeah. Where she. She's really just like laying in and talking about how. How people are filth and scum and they deserve to die and blah, blah, blah. It's. It's very weird and unusual to see that impulse surface in a woman in a teen.

[A]

I was very misanthropic when I was a teenager.

[B]

I mean, me too. I was.

[A]

I was in like depressed tutor mode. But I was definitely like.

[B]

Yeah. I like thought the world was totally against me.

[A]

Yeah. It was evil. Everyone was, you know.

[B]

Yeah. Like. Yeah, you were like the bad seed sowing evil and were con. Confused as to why it felt unfairly persecuted by those around you. Like your parents who were actually acting totally, like, rationally and soundly and thinking that you were weird. Yeah. But like, I can't remember ever thinking, like, other people around me deserve to die.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's crazy. That's a crazy sort of ideation.

[A]

I know.

[B]

And I don't know.

[A]

Substitute teacher too.

[B]

That's just like a. Yeah, that's really depressing. Well, these stories are always very depressing and ironic. Like the fact that the school is called, like, Abundant Life.

[A]

Yeah. Abundant Death.

[B]

But, yeah, it was, like, a venue of death.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

And I think she wasn't even, like, she was new there. She hadn't been there for very long because she was in the public school system previously.

[A]

Yeah. She doesn't seem even like the kind of, like, you know, don't come to school tomorrow because I've got, like, a kill list or whatever. Like, it seems just really random and chaotic and sad.

[B]

Yeah, that's true. But it's fine. She'll actually literally be forgotten in, like, the next few days. And so will the Germany guy, but not Luigi. We're gonna have to deal with him for a few weeks to a few months.

[A]

Yeah, I think it'll. You know.

[B]

Yeah. It'll.

[A]

There will be another wave.

[B]

Yeah. We're gonna forget about him for a year, and then a year from now, the verdict is going to come in. It's like what happened with Daniel Penny. Like, no one was talking about him for a year.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But people forgot about that guy real quick.

[A]

Well, good.

[B]

Yeah, good for him.

[A]

He can go on with his life. He doesn't have to become, like, a Kyle Rittenhouse.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Influencer.

[B]

Yeah. I wonder what Kyle Rittenhouse is up to now. I was, like, halfway expecting to see him at the Young Republicans gala.

[A]

He chimed in on.

[B]

Oh, he said. I think he said.

[A]

He's like, stop comparing.

[B]

Fair. How. How long have we been going? An hour and five. How much time do we have? Well, we have, like.

[A]

We should leave in, like, 15, 20.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

What if we both got each other the milkmaid dress for. For Christmas? That's funny. The dress. Yeah. Looks like it just.

[B]

Okay, so I feel like the discourse on that is split between.

[A]

That the dress is immodest.

[B]

Yeah. Like, women who think it's demeaning and objectifying. Women who have to pretend they love the dress to stay in good standing with, like, the sisterhood cartel. And then, like, men who are all basically just like, hey, I just like seeing heavy hangers, like, mommy milkers, and all you bitches is jealous.

[A]

Huh?

[B]

And, like, my take on it is like, yes, the dress is demeaning, but not because it's revealing or objectifying, but because it's low quality and cheaply made.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, you can have a sexy dress that's higher quality. Part of the thing about being sexy is wearing low quality, cheap.

[A]

Yeah, but there's something about, like, the signaling of the dress.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then the idea of buying the same dress. It's very, you know, wake up sheeple. Like you're all going to get the raw milk based stupid dress and wear it for your fat husband. Like good for you.

[B]

Your fat and weak husband who doesn't deserve anything. As a male friend of mine pointed out, it's like yes, men notice when clothing is poorly made and low quality, but they don't care.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Especially if the wearer is hot.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then if the wearer is like fat and unattractive, they hold you in contempt or worse, don't notice you. But yeah, there's just like something specifically annoying about the dress being made out of like carcinogenic Chinese viscose.

[A]

I think this one's more cotton than the last one, which remember they like, you know, that's people. Because people came for them the first time about that. So this one is I think mostly cotton.

[B]

Like what Alibaba factory are they making the dress at for real?

[A]

It also Daisy knockoff.

[B]

Because you can't say anything critical about women without being accused of jealousy.

[A]

Yeah, I mean I, I got a lot of dresses that look like you do. I'm not, I'm not jealous. I just don't want this one.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Cuz it's not special.

[B]

We're going to nag them into sending us a pair of the Eevee magazine milkmaid dresses.

[A]

I mean I'd wear it. Bry would probably like, you know, he'd like it. But I'd rather on my like Daisy Broderie one that's a little bit, it.

[B]

Has more of like an art hoe edgy vibe to it.

[A]

Yeah, it has an actual like ribbon corseting and it has, it's a little sheer but with like, it's a little.

[B]

Like, it's like subverted in a way that this dress isn't.

[A]

Yeah. Well then I sent you that ad they made for it where she has the milk mustache and the heavy hangers and the got raw milk.

[B]

The cum mustache.

[A]

I said this is Freudian terrorism.

[B]

You know, some of us, emotional terrorism.

[A]

Some of us weren't breastfed. You know, for some of us it's a hard time of year and we don't necessarily want, you know, to be reminded of. To be reminded. Yeah. Of how you're so thirsty for milk. Should we talk about that article in the cut?

[B]

Oh yeah, I forgot about that.

[A]

Ariana. I had to look this lady up.

[B]

It's so dark.

[A]

I thought they. I mean. Yeah, so Ariana Grande was doing SpongeBob the Musical. I think that's how she met this.

[B]

Okay, okay, wait, I was confused. I was like, wait, I thought she did Wicked.

[A]

She's doing Wicked now.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I think she met him. Okay, this fact.

[B]

Check me what my question is. How does a guy who's married to, like, a pediatric clinical psychologist get to meet Ariana Grande?

[A]

Because he was a Broadway actor.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

He was playing spongebob in the spongebob musical.

[B]

And then they. Okay, classic. Yeah. And they have the same, like, weirdly black eyes for how pale they are.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He looks like her gay brother.

[A]

And he cruelly dumped his wife and left his child to be with Ariana Grande, who bewitched him on.

[B]

And then she wrote an essay in the cut.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Explaining her divorce and introducing herself and, like, bap. Voice. How it make you feel.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, I thought it was relatively classy.

[B]

It was. But that's what drives me nuts about it, because this essay was unlike all the other Telling My Story essays in that it was sober, sedate, classy. Michelle Obama took the high road when they go low. She never once mentions Ariana Grande.

[A]

No. Or her husband.

[B]

Or her husband.

[A]

I initially googled the photographer who took the photo of her and then was really confused and it was like. Then Googled, like, husband. It was like. And then I was like. Went back.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Then looked at her name, then looked her up, then saw the Daily Mails. Then I was like, okay, this is because I read the whole thing before knowing what the situation was, thinking she was going to drop it. She was gonna say, yeah, my husband. My husband left me for Ariana Grande.

[B]

Which would be the normal and natural and humble thing to do.

[A]

But instead, there's all these, like, my celebrity husband, when I married him, when I chose, I deleted Facebook because I'm so discreet and blah, blah. I'm such a good therapist. And my husband, it was we. Our marriage was one in which, you know, I had this very discreet profession. He had this very public one, but she's never saying him, his name or what. Like.

[B]

And it's also mercifully short. And maybe I'm so cynical and black pilled, but I was initially, like, sympathizing with her and being like, oh, how modest and classy. And then now that, like, literally now that you've said it, I'm like, wow, she's like a fierce and monstrous person. And what he did was evil and contemptible, but human. But she also, like, has a hand in this. And when she said, if I can't be invisible anymore, I may as well introduce myself. You know how a Sponge is more effective at absorbing liquid when it's already a little bit wet. Please don't over sexualize my tight, wet pussy, ma'am, please.

[A]

You're a little. What?

[B]

She repeatedly states how she, like, strove to be private and invisible in her personal life. Here's a couple of quotes. In this season of shock and mourning, over a year after the end of my marriage was made public, I deeply miss the life of invisibility I created for myself as a psychologist specializing in women's mental health. And then here's another one. I loved my life working in a helping profession and being immersed in details of other people's stories rather than documenting my own narrative for public consumption. So she's, like, a clinically trained psychologist who works with women and children. And so, like, privacy and invisibility are sort of, like, part and parcel of her career and, therefore her identity. There's a really interesting part where she talks about being a psychologist at the Children's Hospital in Philadelphia, supporting women pregnant with babies facing severe fatal diseases while she's pregnant with her own, like, healthy, viable son.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which actually reminded me of Eli's mom, who's sitting in the other room.

[A]

Yeah. Because she works.

[B]

She's a pediatric palliative care social worker, which is an insane job to have. She's like the godmother of the field. She invented it. But she says, I willed my healthy sun glowing inside of me not to overhear these conversations. Survival rates, palliative care, congenital anomaly. Please be okay. I tried to communicate to him. I swaddled my healthy pregnancy in baggy sweaters, bracing for the day a patient would notice my great. My growing fortune and ask, why me and not you? It was the first time a fact about me was announcing itself to a patient, but no one said a word, which, like, I can relate to. Like, the idea of not wanting to showcase your pregnancy to women who are facing tragic and. Or terminal pregnancies because you want to protect your own healthy child from any, like, ill will. Yeah. Like karmic bleeding into your own situation. Like, I get that.

[A]

I mean, when I had to get that intravaginal ultrasound.

[B]

Mm.

[A]

Because I thought I had a variant cyst. The lady who performed on me had tons of pictures of her kids, you know.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I, like, thought that was a little. Because certainly she was at a. Like a. You know, it wasn't a fertility clinic. It was just obgyn. But there probably are women there who. You know. And it was. So she asked me if I was expecting.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I was like, no bitch.

[B]

So it's like, either insensitive or malicious.

[A]

Or it's just they don't think. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But.

[B]

But then she goes on. Despite my patients being thoughtful, curious and attentive, not a single one acknowledged or shared condition, I truly believe they did not allow themselves to see my pregnancy at all, knowing that the person they asked to witness their grief was floating through. A healthy pregnancy was too much to contend with. So they looked away. That felt to me like a lot of damning with faint praise. Like, it's almost like she believes the opposite of what she's saying about her patients. That they could have been, like, more thoughtful and curious and attentive, and she wanted them to be, and they weren't. And I'm sure, like, that some of them didn't mention it, not because they were protecting themselves, but because they were protecting her.

[A]

Well, also because they're her patients.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And like, what she also describes in the article, like, the dynamic of a patient analysand.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And their shrink is. Yeah. You. Like, you're not that interested. You. You're paying them to be your therapist. You don't have to ask them.

[B]

Yeah. And it's life.

[A]

They're not yours.

[B]

A material matter. And also as like a matter of, I don't know, like, social harmony, you don't inquire about the life of your shrink, even if there are certain conspicuous signs that something great or horrible is happening in their life. Yeah, that's the whole idea. You don't ever cross the, like, fourth wall or whatever.

[A]

They have their own strength that they talk to.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

About how annoying you are.

[B]

Yeah. So these patients that she kind of almost backhandedly accuses of not being sensitive enough, we're just following stuff, standard protocol, as out of, like, politeness and decency. That's what it feels like to me. Call me crazy.

[A]

I mean. Yeah. But charitably, I think I. Yeah. Okay. She didn't want to be. She married a theater actor.

[B]

Yeah. Who's kind of her high school sweetheart.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I do think that she, you know, wasn't expecting him to fall in love with a Ariana Grande.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't expect that either.

[A]

I, like, believe that she did want to have a discreet life and it's been compromised due to forces.

[B]

Yeah. She wanted from, like, a normal, happy married life with a fan. Like, have a family. Yeah, I get all that.

[A]

And so, like, this I can understand sort of why she would pen this article, which is pretty compartmentalized and remote and is revelatory of her own psychology in an interesting way. But it still is like, I do feel, I mean, she's a clinical psychiatrist or whatever or a psychologist.

[B]

So.

[A]

Yeah, on some level I think she made a rational calculation that this was the best way to kind of like, save face. Not save face, but.

[B]

Well, I was thinking about that.

[A]

That she had to, like, she felt she had to acknowledge this new aspect of her reality that she didn't plan for.

[B]

No, but see, I don't, I don't buy that. I think like, her two options were bring it up individually with her patients, which would possibly be awkward and unprofessional, but, you know, worthwhile or not say anything at all and continue her life as a private and invisible person. This is something else.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And like, I, I like hate that I have this instinct, this intuition, but every single time, like a woman pens a story that's like telling her story, like, my spidey sense goes off because I know what she's angling at and it's like innocent and understandable as long as she's honest about it. But they're never honest about what their real intentions are. That's like, it's like, I don't hate women, I just hate how much they lie and make the rest of us bear witness.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

She also does this thing where she repeats this line again about how her patients, like, surely must know about her like, public, messy tabloid divorce. Yeah. Which, but never seem to mention it in the context of therapy, which, like, why would they. They're again, like being respectful and following the protocol.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And also they're like self interested, rational people and want to talk about themselves. They don't care about her and they're paying her to talk about themselves.

[A]

They're in therapy, so they probably have a narcissistic disturbance and don't really, even really think about her personal life.

[B]

But it's crazy because, like, the new therapy is like narcissists interfacing with narcissists because, like, all therapists are narcissists too now. And like, it almost feels like what she really wants is like the classic thing that all women want, which is like credit for being like, dealt an unfair card and handling it gracefully. But the thing is like, the moment that you expect the credit, you don't deserve it anymore. I'm guilty of this myself, by the way, where I'm like, oh, look how reasonable and patient I am in dealing with the haters. I have my, my reputation for being a vile and vicious is so overblown. Which is true, by the way. But the minute that I start to ideate that way, that I've, like, lost the war and I'm a raging narcissist who's, like, on her high horse, and if I was like. And you'd say, what? Noble person? Yeah. I would not notice. Like, everybody wants that, especially women. It's like, women will do this thing, like, in the office where they'll, like, nurse and help somebody through getting a promotion, and then they'll be mad that they weren't offered the promotion, and it's like, well, you didn't specify that you wanted it.

[A]

Yeah. Or they go out of their way to, like, dote and care.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because they want some kind of credit. And then see. Seethe. Because they don't get it. I mean, speaking from experience, you know.

[B]

Yeah. And it's like. Yeah. And, you know, she. She wants to feel like her being a private and invisible person was a choice and a virtue and not, like, an accident of her personality or constitution. And I understand that it's, like, devastating and horrible going through life thinking that you have, like, a marriage and a family and that your husband likes you for these specific reasons, and then he, like, flips around and marries a woman who's, like, the exact opposite of you and is known for being, like, a famous anorexic. And you're like, what? Like, like, okay, I'm not.

[A]

Why. I wouldn't date him or definitely marry an actor.

[B]

Yeah. He's not even a real actor.

[A]

He is.

[B]

Well, okay, but was he.

[A]

He's a theater actor, which is really.

[B]

He's the realest actor.

[A]

He's kind of the realest actor in a way. But, yeah, she thought that they could have, you know, he could be maybe a middling theater actor.

[B]

Yeah. And I'm sure, like, a lot of her race, she was probably excited when.

[A]

He got cast as spongebob.

[B]

Wait, what did Ariana Grande do on that?

[A]

I mean, I might have this all wrong, but that's what I think happened. She had some.

[B]

Role.

[A]

Let me look it up.

[B]

Okay. But, yeah, like, a lot of her anger and rage obviously comes from the fact that, like, she thought it was, like, a noble thing to live life as, like, a private, invisible person helping others. But then it turns out that her high school sweetheart, who, like, married her and had a kid with her, didn't really care about that and ended up shacking up with, like, a mega celebrity.

[A]

Ethan Slater is best known for his role as SpongeBob SquarePants in the musical of the same name for which he won a Tony Award.

[B]

Okay, so he's like, okay, yeah.

[A]

He's not. You know, you don't get on Broadway for. For nothing. Oh, okay. Never mind. They met on the set of Wicked.

[B]

Oh, interesting. Okay.

[A]

Yeah. He began a relationship with ariana in early 2023, whom he met on the set of Wicked.

[B]

Got it. I mean, it's so hard to analyze the situation because mostly I don't care. But what he did to this woman is really gross and despicable.

[A]

She says, while our partnership has changed, our parenthood has not. Both of us fiercely love our son 100 of the time, regardless of how our parenting time is divided. It's like, yeah, tell us how you really feel.

[B]

Yeah. You don't have to be, like, a perfect little cookie cutter martyr at all times.

[A]

Tell us how you really feel.

[B]

Yeah. What this guy did to this woman is despicable and unforgivable and frankly, wicked.

[A]

Yeah. Naughty.

[B]

He's a loser, and he's not that attractive.

[A]

And he's gonna get his.

[B]

I mean, he's gonna get retribution, which has nothing to do with you. And also, I hate to say it, but he and Ariana seem very physically well matched.

[A]

Right. But she's gonna.

[B]

They're like. Right.

[A]

That's what I mean by his karmic contributions. Like, are his relationship with Ariana Grande. I mean, maybe I'm wrong, but who knows? Maybe, like, she seems. But she's volatile. The eating disorder.

[B]

The clinical psychologist and should know better. Has to separate her legitimate and real feelings of betrayal, which would have occurred whether or not he left her for a celeb.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

From her feelings of narcissistic rage by comparison to the celeb.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like. Which is why she's writing the story in the first place in this way, because this whole affair has readjusted her expectations of, like, what she wanted from life. Because prior to this, she was, like, perfectly happy and content with being, like, an invisible and private person in the helping professions. But then when her husband left her for, like, a famous pop start, she started thinking, like, wait a second. Which is. I get it. It's very sympathetic and understandable.

[A]

I mean, what would you do?

[B]

I wouldn't write a story.

[A]

You would continue your clinical practice.

[B]

Yeah, I would continue being a private, invisible person if that's the life I chose.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I would never publicly weigh in on the situation.

[A]

I'd be like, Dr. Melfi after she got raped. And that's.

[B]

There well.

[A]

Be a total pro.

[B]

And I say this by the way, like, like, truly sympathy for this woman.

[A]

As a therapist, not as a person.

[B]

But.

[A]

Yeah, I'm like, you seem like you're not over.

[B]

Yeah. She's already violated the ethical contract between her and her patients by revealing, like, an. To them what happened in this way when they already knew and chose not to bring it up as a matter of respect and professional conduct.

[A]

Yeah. And, like, using her other little anecdotal tidbits. I mean, you're allowed to do that. That's not unethical. But it is just.

[B]

It gives me pause, and it is super grating. Like, how kind of benevolent and equanimous. Is that the right word she seems in the article when she's clearly, like, seething with rage, as she should be.

[A]

Yeah, I wouldn't write the article either.

[B]

I know. It's like, crazy. Like, I mean, okay, like, I have to say, like, she won in the end.

[A]

Well, she's like, Luigi.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, the majority stands with, like. She's the.

[B]

I hope she hears this, bro.

[A]

She's the empathetic character in this. And even long before when the story came out that this guy left his high school sweetheart and child and stuff, everyone was like, oh, everyone felt bad for her.

[B]

Yeah. She's a pretty young woman with a real job and a beautiful child, and she won. And her theater kid, Broadway husband who's.

[A]

Dating his own demons.

[B]

Anorexic ass. Ariana. I don't know anything about. I have nothing bad to say about Ariana Grande. No, no.

[A]

I like her. Of course, I'd be devastated if my husband left me for it. That's spinner.

[B]

I think, like, if a man leaves you for a major celeb. Hey, hey. It's within the realm of human nature, you know?

[A]

That sounds reasonable. It's. It's human people especially. Okay, well, it's just.

[B]

It's human nature has nothing to do with you, is what I'm saying.

[A]

It's in part human nature, but also actors. It's a tale as old as time. They're. They are always cheating. They're messy as they're mentally emotionally unstable people.

[B]

Well, and I bet when he got with her, she was probably, like, the prettiest girl in their high school and, like, smart and ambitious, and he was like, yeah, this is what my life is gonna be. And then he met Ariana Grande, and it's like, whatever, bro. Yolo.

[A]

Well, we have to go to dinner.

[B]

Oh, yeah, that's true.

[A]

Merry Christmas.

[B]

Merry Christmas. We're not allowed to say happy holidays. Anywhere in Trump's America.

[A]

Yeah. I've been really like, merry Christmas.

[B]

It's sad when the delivery Mexicans are like, happy Holidays. Because I'm like, aren't you Catholic?

[A]

Elise Navidad, brother. Yeah, you don't got to. You don't got to play with me anyway. And a Hindu Christmas as well for the Indian listeners. See you in.

[B]

Hello.

[A]

Soon.

[B]

Ra.