Annora

Summary

Red Scare Podcast Episode Summary: "Annora"

Episode Details:

• Title: Annora
• Release Date: March 10, 2025
• Hosts: Anna Khachiyan and Dasha Nekrasova

---

Introduction and Initial Thoughts

[00:24 - 01:33]

The episode kicks off with Anna and Dasha humorously describing themselves as "lifeless lesbians" returning to the airwaves. They discuss their low energy levels due to various personal activities, including Anna observing Lent.

Dasha Nekrasova [00:24]: "We're so back. We're back. A couple of lifeless lesbians back on the air."

---

Revisiting "Annora": Resistance and Expectations

[01:33 - 02:50]

The hosts introduce their focus for the episode: reviewing the film "Annora" by Sean Baker. Dasha expresses initial resistance to reviewing the film, citing personal connections and a desire for honesty without bias.

Dasha Nekrasova [02:24]: "I don't feel like sometimes I ... want them to cast me. Not even just, like. Because it doesn't feel like."

Anna echoes this sentiment, highlighting the challenge of providing an unbiased review when feeling obligated by loyalty.

Anna Khachiyan [03:10]: "I had some weird Freudian resistance ..."

---

"Annora" and Its Oscar Sweep

[04:19 - 07:39]

"Annora" garners significant attention by sweeping several Oscar categories, including Best Picture, Best Director, Best Editing, and Best Actress. Anna and Dasha delve into the implications of this achievement, discussing how it signals a return to successful indie filmmaking without pandering to political correctness.

Anna Khachiyan [06:40]: "... he's the bad cop."

Dasha Nekrasova [07:07]: "It was good."

They also touch on political aspects, referencing Trump's speeches and critiques of the Democratic response, using these to frame their analysis of the film's success within the broader cultural landscape.

---

Cultural Depictions and Ethnic Stereotypes

[07:39 - 17:15]

A substantial portion of the discussion centers on the portrayal of Russian characters in "Annora." Anna criticizes the film for its stereotypical depiction of Russian gangsters, arguing that it relies on clichés rather than nuanced character development.

Anna Khachiyan [05:07]: "He wanted to be famous?"

Dasha and Anna debate the authenticity of accents and cultural references, noting inconsistencies and inaccuracies that detract from the film's credibility. They also compare these portrayals to other media, such as "Uncut Gems" and "White Lotus," highlighting recurring patterns in depicting Russian and Armenian characters.

Dasha Nekrasova [14:28]: "Sedentary migrants?"

---

Critical Reception and Op-Ed Analysis

[26:31 - 32:27]

The hosts examine a New York Times op-ed by Michael Edolph, who praises "Annora" as the best movie of the year but criticizes it for not explicitly denouncing Putinism. Anna and Dasha discuss the tension between artistic integrity and political responsibility, debating whether filmmakers should use their platforms to address geopolitical issues directly.

Michael Edolph [27:35]: "... no such thing as a neutral actor or an apolitical film."

They argue that while the film succeeds artistically, it falls short in leveraging its success for political statements, reflecting broader debates about the role of art in society.

---

Portrayal of Sex Work and Intimacy Coordination

[43:35 - 94:58]

"Annora" sparks discussions about the depiction of sex work, with some critics accusing it of glamorization while others view it as a realistic portrayal. Anna and Dasha analyze these perspectives, agreeing that the film strikes a balance between bleakness and exuberance, offering a nuanced view of survivalist sex work.

Dasha Nekrasova [46:37]: "It’s a realistic depiction of sex work ..."

The conversation shifts to the topic of intimacy coordinators in filmmaking. The hosts express strong opinions against them, likening their presence to administrative bloat and criticizing their interference in the creative process.

Anna Khachiyan [89:11]: "They're the dei. ... preposterous that people even have to hire them."

They share personal anecdotes about their experiences with intimacy coordinators, reinforcing their stance that such roles are unnecessary and intrusive.

---

Comparative Analysis with Other Films

[95:01 - 107:46]

Anna and Dasha compare "Annora" to other acclaimed films like "Uncut Gems," highlighting differences in narrative structure and character development. They praise "Annora" for its emotional depth and ambiguity in relationships, contrasting it with the more straightforward, high-stakes tension of "Uncut Gems."

Anna Khachiyan [70:13]: "I think the major fault of this movie is that it pretends to give the audience credit but really kind of condescends to them."

The discussion extends to Oscar-winning performances, particularly Mikey Madison's role in "Annora," examining how her portrayal adds complexity to the film's narrative.

---

Final Thoughts and Future Implications

[107:46 - 116:09]

In wrapping up, the hosts reflect on the cultural significance of "Annora's" success at the Oscars. They consider the pressures faced by indie filmmakers like Sean Baker after such a sweep, emphasizing the need for continued originality and resistance to mainstream pressures.

Anna Khachiyan [114:17]: "But I think the fact that it was even made and that it then went on to sweep all the awards is just such a ..."

They conclude by affirming their support for indie films that maintain artistic integrity and express hope that "Annora's" success will inspire more authentic and diverse storytelling in Hollywood.

Dasha Nekrasova [116:00]: "It’s okay. You asked for it."

---

Notable Quotes

• Dasha Nekrasova [02:36]: "I can't gas your movie up on my show. Even though Spree's great. You should all go see it."
• Anna Khachiyan [03:38]: "It's kinda like, Russian porn where the girl's like, oi, oy, da."
• Dasha Nekrasova [14:28]: "Sedentary migrants?"
• Anna Khachiyan [27:35]: "He did see untold horrors."
• Dasha Nekrasova [44:52]: "You're so gay."

---

Conclusion

In this episode, Anna Khachiyan and Dasha Nekrasova provide a comprehensive and critical analysis of Sean Baker's film "Annora," exploring its cultural depictions, narrative structure, and impact on the indie film landscape. Through engaging dialogue and sharp critique, they offer listeners a deep dive into the film's strengths and shortcomings, framing it within broader discussions about art, politics, and representation in contemporary cinema.

Transcript

[Dasha Nekrasova]

We're so back. We're back. A couple of lifeless lesbians back on the air. Hello out there.

[Anna Khachiyan]

I, like, fully nodded off.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Before you got here.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

And I just woke up. That's why she's low energy.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

And I'm observing Lent, so.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Oh, yeah. It was Ash Wednesday. Ash Wednesday.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Hello.

[Anna Khachiyan]

We're back. I'm just gonna do the whole episode in this accent.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Because I can do it too.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Very the nanny.

[Anna Khachiyan]

I'm from here. I'm east coast.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah, you're from New Jersey.

[Anna Khachiyan]

I like to go in the bodega and get a chopped cheese. I've watched all the seasons of the Sopranos.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Chop it up with the locals. I forgot what I was gonna say. We're back.

[Anna Khachiyan]

We're back. We're back.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

And.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Here it is. Here's the show by popular demand. We're gonna review an aura.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah. People. We were really resisting a movie that.

[Anna Khachiyan]

I've been dreading watching and reviewing.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Why do you think that is?

[Anna Khachiyan]

You had the same feeling.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

I just don't like when people's like, you have to. You have to. And then because I'm not like, besties with Sean Baker, but, you know, we're both indie. We're, you know, we're friendly. I don't feel like sometimes I. I don't want to give, like, a honest appraisal of someone I know is, like, work. Cuz. Cuz I want them to cast me. Not even just, like. Because it doesn't feel like.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Because it's indelicate.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah. Or like you don't feel like you can be, you know, yourself.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Well, you know, leave me. I'll be the bad cop.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Eugene wanted us to talk about Spree.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

And it's like, eugene, you're one of my best friends. I can't.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

I can't, like, gas your movie up on my show. Even though Spree's great. You should all go see it.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah. But do you believe that I haven't seen Spree?

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Are you being honest?

[Dasha Nekrasova]

No, I am.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Okay, cool.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah. Spree was really, like, the motifs of Eugene's career really, like, came together. But. But, yeah, I had, like, some just resistance because of. I don't know. I don't like being told what to do.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yes. That certainly, like, when there's, like, hundreds of people being like, you should talk about this movie on your podcast. I'm like, nah, dog. But also, I had some weird Freudian resistance.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Well, yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

To the fact that it was like a movie about Russian people. Like, it gave me the Same, like, queasy, dreadful feeling as, like, thinking about Russian porn where the girl's like, oi, oy, da.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Bye. When he's like, yeah, no, it's. I know exactly what you mean.

[Anna Khachiyan]

I was like, it's gonna unlock some kind of entrenched Freudian memories and make me feel bad totally about my failures and disappointments. And I feel obligated to like it also because I'm loyal. And Sean Baker. I was going to say Sean Price Williams is from New Jersey. He's Jersey strong, just like me, but.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

But now it's swept at the Oscars.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yes.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Which I'm very happy for.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Should we get into the review first or should we talk about the other stuff that's happening? A lot of stuff happened that we're not even going to address. Like, Casey Anthony reinvented herself as, like, a legal advocate.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

LGBTQ. A TikTok substack.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah. Because she's doing some, like, extended apology tour for killing her daughter, but is also a narcissistic attention whore who can't stay out of the limelight. And speaking of people who can't stay out of the limelight, there's the Luigi Mangioni porn allegation, which I feel vindicated about should those videos actually surface? Because it proves my theory for why he did it.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

What, that he's a narcissist?

[Anna Khachiyan]

That he's an attention whore who wanted to be famous?

[Dasha Nekrasova]

That he's a Patrick Bateman style killer instead of. Yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

And then he cooked up, like, a nice, plausible sounding motive that would resonate with hundreds of thousands of understandably angry and frustrated people.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Trump and Zelensky, Matt.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah. But we caught that live.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

On our appearance. Megan Kelly.

[Anna Khachiyan]

And then Trump gave the address.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

The tariffs, which people are upset about.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

But Trump says they're gonna make us strong. And I don't know. Yeah. He gave the congressional address, which I fell asleep.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

During. But was enjoying.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

The Dems did, like, a pink blazer.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I'm gonna say one critical thing about Trump, and he's never gonna talk to me again. He's gonna keep texting you, Anna, you. What have you done? He much like anora. He delivers at the beginning and then kind of starts to drag.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

I've seen Trump speak in person now three times, and he gives these very long speeches, and by the end of it, you're like.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah, we get it. The stamina is hard to. To match.

[Anna Khachiyan]

But, you know, he's my president. Love him to death. We'll support him forever.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah. They were speculating on CNN what kind of protest gestures the Dems would come up with. He pointed out how there's nothing he could do or say that would make the Democrats even smile.

[Anna Khachiyan]

That was good.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

They had, like, flimsy little signs that said, like, musk is a liar or something, or fact check or. And some guy with a ponytail stood up and was kind of inaudible and then they, like, escorted him out.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Oh, the guy with the cane. Al Green.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

That's Al Green.

[Anna Khachiyan]

The politician, not the singer.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

I don't. I didn't know who that guy was.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah, I. You watched the Fuentes stream and I watched the NPR stream, which was interesting because on npr, fair and balanced. Yes. We have, like, a true bipartisan consensus here. But on npr, they were saying something like, to the tune of, like, what Trump really likes is power. He doesn't care about small countries like Ukraine. He wants fealty. Zelensky has shown him fealty time and time again. And he swatted him down repeatedly. That was just crazy because it's simply not true and totally outrageous.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Like, on so many levels.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Zelensky campaigned for Kamala.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah. And it's like, also, just take Trump out of the equation. It's not like Democrats care any more about small countries.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

I know.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Like, than MAGA does. Like, no country really cares about small countries. Most countries in general care about, like, their own security and economic interests.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Well, I guess they care to the extent that they can make them, like, a client state or extract resources from them or leverage them into a proxy war against Russia. Yeah, Russia. Russia. Russia.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah. And of course, there's also, like, this very obvious falsehood that, like, Zelensky has bowed down to Trump and kissed the ring, which he hasn't. Like, we saw it happen with our own eyes. Where, like that clip that was circulating during the meeting with Zelensky and Trump and Vance, where he got out of pocket.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

He was being uppity.

[Anna Khachiyan]

You know, it's like if your junkie son, like, waltzes into your living room and takes a dump on your coffee table and starts to make demands that you bail him out. And it's like you're paying his rent or he's staying in the guest house.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Like, what are you talking about?

[Dasha Nekrasova]

He couldn't even put a suit on.

[Anna Khachiyan]

I know.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

We put suits on to go to Connecticut. I know. Let alone the Oval.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah. And you can say that that's because we're vain and image conscious women. And Zelensky is a brave military healer, hero who doesn't have any time or patience for trifles like his public image. But that's all like his little Lululemon, Ferrari whatever uniform. That's probably also, by the way, all that clothing is probably like Brunello Cinelli or something. It's probably super expensive.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Like he's not wearing like Uniqlo.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

That would be a, that would be a move if he did the head to toe white boy Uniqlo fit if you were sambas.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah, but it's like, it's like, like.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

He should wear a tracksuit.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Mtm, military drag. It's like cosplay.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

No, I know.

[Anna Khachiyan]

It's so perverted.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

I've. Yeah, I've. T. I've mentioned how he's ruined the olive drab T shirt for everyone. What else did he get up to at the address? Oh, yeah, they were. Yeah. Speculating that people were going to bring empty egg carton and I was like, wow, he's just like us. They're gonna tell. The Democrats are gonna tell you from.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Hitting the wall, but you're gonna build the wall. And yet you just hit the wall.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

It seems like it's really not his fault that the eggs are so expensive.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

If there's a bird flu. Unless that's fake news.

[Anna Khachiyan]

I don't know.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Y have been scandalized by the egg prices and did look into it.

[Anna Khachiyan]

No, I know. We talked about it and yeah, there are still places around me where you can get normal cheap eggs. But yeah, like they didn't clap or stand. That was like the big objection from conservatives.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Like ordinarily you like, suspend your like, partisan principles or whatever for the greater good of showing respect.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Some decorum. Yeah, well, I guess they would say that. Yeah. Like Trump and Musk and co are so messy and, you know.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

They're not exactly like deferential to civility.

[Anna Khachiyan]

That's true. But I think like, in those moments they generally like get in line and. And like Elon Musk showing up with his chainsaw. And you could also say that, like they refused to stand because even though what they were supposed to stand for, people that were like model American citizens that Trump was trotting out, he was using them as like a proxy for his own power games. But that's also bullshit. Like they didn't like cheer for that like 10 year old kid who looked like 4 and 40 at the same time and was like, like that little kid who got like an honorary Secret Service badge because he has terminal brain cancer. Oh, like that kind of stuff.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Like, they'll. They don't clap for the. The widow in the family of Corey Comparatore. Which is funny because Trump, like, relentlessly refuses to learn how to pronounce that guy's name. Right. But, like, mentions him at every turn.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Right. Like in Riley's family. And then the girl who got hit in the face by X Men volleyball player and has, like, brain damage. Come on.

[Anna Khachiyan]

I know a lot of X Men who would love to do that to us.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Put jokes on them, because we already have Belle's palsy.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

My brain is already damaged.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Like, half our faces are already paralyzed. It's like the complimentary halves.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah. Our faces are symmetrical. If they're. You use both of the asymmetrical parts of our faces.

[Anna Khachiyan]

They were, like, openly booing and not keeping the order. My favorite line was about the African country, Lesotho, whose no one's even heard of. And also sedentary migrants is good.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

What? Sedentary migrants?

[Anna Khachiyan]

It was just something he said during the address where he was talking about how we're paying millions in tax dollars to, like, support sedentary migrants and people who are, like, between 130 and 300 years old.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Oh, yeah. When he was. Yeah. Listing how old the people were that were getting government assistance.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah. And it's like, film is back in a big way, but comedy is over because there's no one funnier than Trump.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

No.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Like, he has, like, his own Netflix special every time he takes the stage to give a political address.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

He's great at what he does.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

The Oscars.

[Anna Khachiyan]

The Oscars.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Too many slick updos.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Way too many. Every single. Up there.

[Anna Khachiyan]

I know.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

I was kind of like Bun.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah. I was mad at Mickey Madison because she was doing the Audrey Hepburn, like, classy, darling look. Because she played like, a hooker.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

In the movie. So she was trying to, like, Breakfast at Tiffany's. Yes.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

But she has such, like, beautiful flowing locks.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

I would have let them hang many such cases. I mean, Ariana Grande's always been doing it, so that's no surprise. But I think. Did Demi. Demi wore her hair down.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yes. She always does. She knows how to play to her strengths.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

But basically. Yeah. Well, Emma Stone has that pixie cut now. Elle Fanning did the same thing. Lily Rose Depp. She wore it down and then up for the, like, Vanity Fair Oscar party.

[Anna Khachiyan]

I love the Lily Rose Depp red carpet look. Hated the Vanity Fair Oscar party look.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

A crob.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

It says because she's a Chanel ambassador.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

They always put her in, like, that's so Chanel.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah. Because they love to show off her long torso.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah. And their garments are just all, like, ghetto. Yeah. Trash.

[Anna Khachiyan]

I low key. Really like the Whoopi Goldberg and Oprah lifeless lesbians look where, like, Oprah was doing kind of Victor Victoria menswear aesthetic and Whoopi Goldberg was uncharacteristically feminine. They kind of, like, swapped roles. The black substance.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Isabella Rossellini blue velvet. I think quality did an updo too.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah. They snubbed Elaine Delon.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

No. Elaine Delon mentioned. Sad. The James Bond tribute I thought was ass.

[Anna Khachiyan]

I missed that. I kind of just like, skipped around.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

They did a whole, like, song and dance number for James Bond that was very. Because they just recently sold the rights to James Bond to Amazon, and that was. I was like. Yeah. Yep. They. This is really giving, like, Amazon original.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Series James Bond with, like, Lizzo in the starring role.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

DOA Cat. They did all these, like, song. They sang the songs. It was just pathetic. I really. I thought it sucked ass.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah. The whole ceremony was kind of, like, down market this time around. I mainly just tuned in randomly for, like, the Zoe Saldana and Adrien Brody acceptance speeches, which were both equally insufferable. It's like Zoe Saldana being, like, as the first Latina woman, but not the last.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

The woman? No. From the Dominican Republic.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah. Like the. Yeah. And she was, like, rolling her R's extra hard and, like, leaning into the Spanish pronunciation as the ambassador for Emilia Perez.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

I don't even know what Adrien Brody was on about.

[Anna Khachiyan]

I don't know. He was doing some, like, anti hate woo woo jubu thing. But Zoe Saldana is. She reminds me of, like, Meghan Markle and Thandie Newton in that. She's like, a mulatta, but, like, presents just, like, culturally and even aesthetically as a white woman.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah. White features.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah. And they're all kind of, like, emaciated in that rich lady way where they're, like, you know, like, take, like, doing those, like, infusions, you know, and, like, not eating.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

And that kind of grinds my gears because I know that we're like, a Pro Anna podcast, but, like, what's the point of being black and representing your heritage if you're gonna part with your sensuality and be like, another, like, copycat, cookie cutter, rich white lady.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Who's, like, neurotic about her weight.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Who does, like, water fast.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah. It's gay.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

It is gay.

[Anna Khachiyan]

It's gay.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

I mean, in gen, like, the. All the distressingly thin oic celebs don't look so good.

[Anna Khachiyan]

No, they look like the emperor's new clothes. Like, they're, like, gaunt and cadaverous. Not that people in glass houses should, but whatever. I'm not up there, so.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

It'S not. It doesn't. Of course. Yeah. Like, there's something to be said for the aesthetic discipline of being underweight, but I feel like if you take. If you're suppressing your appetite with pharmaceuticals, then you're a different kind of thin.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah. You're cheating.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

You're kind of cheating.

[Anna Khachiyan]

It's not fair. Which, like, whatever. More power to them, but.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

And the appetite is, you know, that's your source of life.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

And it's one thing to, like, fight again, you know, to fast for spiritual purposes or. Or starve yourself. Adhere to, like, a rigid discipline, but to just not have an appetite.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

I feel like. Gives you that kind of bloodless look.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah. Deaf. Well, you're like, transhuman.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

And like a cyborg in a way that, like, even Donna Haraway couldn't have predicted. And. Yeah. When I was watching that Zoe Saldana speech, I was thinking, like, man, I feel bad for her husband. Imagine living with her because, you know that she's, like, super, like, type A. Oh, of course.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Well, many such cases.

[Anna Khachiyan]

And, like, nagging and scolding and a perfectionist.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

I mean, with actors, like, of course. Every actress is crazy.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

And if she doesn't present outwardly as crazy, then, I mean, she's even worse. There's something really wrong. And the amount of, like, control that she's actually exerting.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Is far more sinister.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Have you seen Emilia Perez? I'm, like, kind of curious.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

No, I only saw Conclave in Anora.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Oh. Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

But I. I mean, I don't really like musicals.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah, I don't either, but I was.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

A Spanish language film.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah, same. But I'm kind of curious about it because I feel like it could almost be, like, intentionally or unintentionally, like an anti Woke film.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Well, it's about. Yeah. People took umbrage with it because it's about, like a cartel.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Kingpin. Transitioning.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah. But that's, like, amazing and funny.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah, it's kind of. Honestly, Betsy Brown's actors.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah. It's like the Anti Hamilton.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Mm.

[Anna Khachiyan]

So, yeah, I'd be interested the Brutalist. Another film that I haven't watched and won't be watching. I'm not watching a three hour slog about the Holocaust. If I want to do that. I'll just watch Showa Again, I don't like Brady Corbet.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

I think he's super pretentious.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Who's that?

[Dasha Nekrasova]

He's the director.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Okay.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

He did Vox Lux as well.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Never heard of it.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

The movie with Natalie Portman where she was like a pop star and the plot's a little convoluted, but yeah, I mean, I thought. I thought we did the Brutalist. It was called the Pianist.

[Anna Khachiyan]

I know, I know. Who. Who called. Adrien Brody, a two time Holocaust survivor. He just keeps winning awards for surviving the Holocaust. And it's like, we get it. Like, he's like long and sinewy and looks like he was just like liberated from Dachau or Bergen Belson or whatever kind of eyes. And he's like seeing untold horrors.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Meanwhile, he's like some LA wigger. He's like, yaman, let's hit the ganja.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

He's Rastafari.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Like, listening to Beastie Boys.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

I'm like, raging.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Probably miss me with that shit. Not interested.

[Anna Khachiyan]

I know.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

First Latvian film to win an Oscar for animated feature.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Oh, the Cat One. Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

But not a lot of Baltic representation in Hollywood, so I'll take it.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

I'll take what I can get. I thought Conan was a pretty good house. I mean, I just like him.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

I wish he would have done a little more boundary pushing material.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Huh. He said some pretty edgy stuff.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Did he?

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah. Like, there was that one point where he was talking about how depressed and demoralized everyone must be because it was like getting to the end of the ceremony, something like that, which is like something we would do.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

And I was like, okay, yeah, he's dependable.

[Anna Khachiyan]

And honestly, like, a good catch for Oscar host because it seems like they don't really have anybody anymore.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

It's like Ricky Gervais, Billy Crystal. They trotted him and Meg Ryan out.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Rachel Ziegler, Gal Gadot, Meg Ryan. And Billy Crystal is another one of those, like, red scare moments where you, like, expect the brunette to be taller, but actually the blonde is. I was like, oh, okay.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Anna and Dawn. Yeah. And then Nora really swept.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah. Four out of the six categories that it was nominated for. Right. What did it?

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Best Picture, Best Picture, Best Director, Best Editing, Best Screenplay, Best Actress.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Wow.

[Anna Khachiyan]

So that's like a clean sweep. I think that's like, unheard of in the history of the Oscars. On one night.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

For one film and one director. To take it all.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

I think.

[Anna Khachiyan]

We're so back, baby.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

It's been a long time and I think it bodes well, yeah, so you.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Sent me that New York Times op ed from that guy, Michael Edolph, whose name instantly rang a bell, because I remember him kind of vaguely from back in the day, like seven, 10 years ago. And he's one of these, like, he's a. A writer, screenwriter, director, kind of low B filmmaker. And he used to write probably for, like, GQ and then, like, London Books or something. Um, but he's one of these guys like Keith Gessen or Yasha Levine, who's like a cultured former Soviet, nice Jewish boy in his mid to late 40s, who's like, kind of like left leaning politically.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

The. His op ed. Well, it was about how he loved Nora, thought it was the best movie he's seen all year, but didn't think it should win any Oscars because it was a mirror to the rampant Putinism of our times.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah. Like, and he was such a coward. He couldn't even go full throttle with the propaganda and spin and couldn't say that it was Putinism.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah, he just drew all these. Yeah, he. Because the two actors, I guess, were nominated.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Or just the one, Mark Edelstein and Yuri Barisa. And. Yeah, I. I told you, I was like, I was reading this thing, like, skimming it, and I was like, wait, so he's mad that they didn't use their platform to denounce Putin? Like, why would they do that? That's so, like, narcissistic and unwise. Like, good for them for not giving a. And like, enjoying their success. You.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Right, but because in Russia, he says, the film's success is seen from Moscow as the country's return to the global stage. As Mr. Borisov said to Interview magazine, a lot of people in Russia were very happy and congratulated me in the shops, summit, gas stations, on the streets. He added, because it is like a win at the Olympic Games in Russia, all victories are national. And it's like he undermines his own argument even, because it's really about the. It's really a testament to, like, America's cultural soft power that to win an American award is still a very big deal in Russia. That the Oscars are, like, kind of a global.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah, all eyes are on America.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

And then he references how HBO dropped the Serbian Russian actor Milos Bikovich from White Lotus after his pro war views were made public. And. And Netflix buried a Russian adaptation of Anna Karenina after it was shot in which Mr. Borisov played Levin. In that show, I Sexy was called Anna K. And Netflix buried it.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah, they put the Kai Bosh on.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

It and that, like, said, no, Anak.

[Anna Khachiyan]

They couldn't have a show about a racist, ethnically ambiguous podcaster that wouldn't fly with critics or audiences. Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

It reminded me of that article that other Jewish guy wrote about how he used to walk his dog and listen to red stare and then decided to stop. It was the same kind. I was like, I almost thought it was the same guy.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Because it was like, I liked this thing. But then it's these political repercussions.

[Anna Khachiyan]

They're all interchangeable across eras, across borders. It's the same guy. But his. His takeaway was like, yeah, he was basically like. As much as I loved Anora, the approach you should take is to ignore. Because it's spreading, like, pro Russian sentiment and vague Putinism.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

And he doesn't believe in cultural boycotts or holding artists responsible for my favorite part, for their nation's actions. But, yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

But, yes, he does.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

And he concludes by saying, if one or more of the six nominations for Nora turn into a win come Oscar night, I hope that at least some of it is spent. Some of its time in the spotlight is spent addressing a simple truth. There is, at this dire moment, no such thing as a neutral actor or an apolitical film, even if they are both also excellent.

[Anna Khachiyan]

You are so gay.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

And I do. I like a Nora's win, which has spawned all this, like, discourse about sex work, which we'll get to, but then also, like, the scrutiny of Sean Baker for, like, following Libs of TikTok and.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Liking pro Kyle Rittenhouse tweets.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

But I think that the sweep really does signify that not everything has to be political or that someone's politics don't have anything to do with their career as an artist.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah. Judging works of art by the political stances that the artists take was rejected at the ballot box. We will accept and permit good artists, even if they have conservative values or.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Haven'T espoused the Liberal Party line, which.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah. Or are apolitical, which automatically means conservative in this day and age. To, like, pink pussy hat libs if they're not.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah. Compliant enough.

[Anna Khachiyan]

J.D. vance, emotional blackmail. This is, like, the worst possible logic that I can think of. He's, like, the worst, nastiest type of subversive. Because he's not saying, like, I demand Sean Baker and, like, Mark Edelstein and Yuri Borisov to issue official statements on why they reject Putin and support Ukraine. He's saying, like, I don't expect that from them because they're artists, and I Judge a work of art on its merits, but I'm strongly nudging you behind the scenes to do the right thing. It's so Jewish.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Truly.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Like, forcing the issue in, like, backhanded, passive aggressive ways.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

So you like the movie, but.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

What is this?

[Anna Khachiyan]

Isn't.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

It's not film criticism?

[Anna Khachiyan]

Like, can't you just, like, sit back and relax and enjoy the ride?

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Like it's Hollywood biggest, biggest night, babe.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

It's not about you.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

It's not about Vladimir Putin.

[Anna Khachiyan]

It's funny because, like, his view of the movie, which is that it's a great movie and you should love it and enjoy it privately, but, like, publicly ignore it or not pay it any credence because it is vaguely gesticulating to, like, Russian supremacy. And pro Putinism is like the exact opposite of what I felt, which is that, like, I have a lot of issues and problems with this film.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Really?

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah. I don't even know where to begin. Dasha.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Oh, my God.

[Anna Khachiyan]

I don't even know what to think. But I think the fact that it was even made and that it then went on to sweep all the awards is just such a. You know, in the words of a friend of mine who's a screenwriter and director, it's like such a, like, unbelievable symbolic win for the fact that, like, movies are back.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

And you can do whatever the fuck you want and you don't have to, like, couch or hedge or like, make movies for, like, gay woke virgins anymore. That's over.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

I mean, I said to Sean Baker maybe a year ago that we need a new Hollywood for indie losers.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

But it turns out we don't. Turns out. I mean, I just love, like, you know, I'm team Indy all the way.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah. And this was a pretty low budget film.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

It was like five mil.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah. Okay, so that's.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

That's low budget.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yes. And it's like, who follows awards season? Well, yeah, obviously the actors and directors and crew members, but also the financiers, the money men. So, like, they're very, I'm sure, impressionable and cautious. And so this is like a very positive development in my book.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

It's extremely hard to make a movie. Yeah. For.

[Anna Khachiyan]

And it felt like very much like a Soviet thaw. So it was almost like perfect that this was a movie about Russian themes.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

I really enjoyed Anora.

[Anna Khachiyan]

I had a lot of problems with it, but you can be the good cop and I'll be the bad cop. I won't neg too hard.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

I had almost. No. I. I don't know. I mean, I had resisted kind of watching it for so long due to recent reasons we mentioned.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

But I sort of knew I would enjoy it, and I basically did.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Mm.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

And I, like. I mean, I do think Mikey Madison is fantastic. One of the. One of my issues.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Is that when she does speak Russian, and I know she's not meant to be, like, a fluent Russian speaker.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

But her. The vocabulary. Her level of vocabulary doesn't match how.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Well she understands well and how badly she speaks. Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Like, the way that she articulates things.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

In Russian, but that's just. That's. That's very minor. But I think I really like that she looks pretty normal.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

You know, Say it.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Dasha. She's like a girl with an amazing body but kind of a butter face.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

I wouldn't even say she has a butter face.

[Anna Khachiyan]

She's really hot, obviously, but, like, she.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Looks like she's that hot. I think she's, like. Has a very, like, expressive and cinematic face. No, she was. Well, see so much.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Exactly.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

You don't see that so much these days.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Well, I think that they nailed the casting. My resistance going into it was that even before I saw it, I kind of already knew ahead of time that it would be, like, uncut gems for girls, and it would.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

I thought it was better than uncut gems.

[Anna Khachiyan]

I have a take on this that I will save for later. But, you know, but I. When I went into it, I was like, well, that's not a good enough deterrent. You're gonna sit your white ass down and watch this movie and, like, go into it with, like, a clear head and an open heart. Because, you know, if nothing else, you. It's. It's fun to. To be proven wrong. I haven't seen any of Sean Baker's other films, which I should watch, but I was kind of aware of his reputation as a guy who basically, like, mines like Fringe or Exotics subcultures for narrative value. I was kind of aware of the claim that I've seen bouncing around that this film could not have been made without the influence of our podcast. So that was, like, kind of what informed my resistance. Jack attributed the success of the film to the fact that people are really hungry for sex and nudity, and it had plenty of that. And he was saying that if there's any positive effect or welcome trend that comes from this film, it's that, like, more American actresses will hopefully engage in gratuitous nudity. I love how it all comes down to, like. Yeah. Like, showing Tits and cock. I didn't find the sex or nudity to be particularly exciting. I would say it was a little clinical. That was a complaint. I saw a lot of people have that it wasn't sexy enough. But I actually thought that that was a good part of the film because it kind of taps into the zeitgeist A because like young people, even if they have experience, are kind of like shy and clumsy when it comes to sex. And also because like the whole idea of having sex in such a transactional manner and having to suspend disbelief is alienating in and of itself. So I thought it did a good job like handling that. And also like all the aggressive, excessive sex was a lead up to the ultimate disappointment.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Right. I thought the film was a little montage heavy.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Especially in the first third. Yeah, to half. A lot of the montages were well done and like fun to watch.

[Anna Khachiyan]

They had like a Spring breakers like quality to them.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

It was a bit much.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

And it didn't. And this was part of the point and of the film. It was like there you didn't feel that they had like that there was a significant attachment kind of between the two characters which there wasn't ultimately or.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Like an interiority to either of the characters. Like one of the questions that I've also seen circulating a lot is like what's up with Anora? Is she a craven gold digging whore or is she a hooker with a heart of gold? It's very unclear. I actually don't have much of a problem with that because people contain multitudes and she's clearly both. And part of her being kind of so materialistic and transactional comes down to not only the nature of her work but to the fact that she's been hurt and burned already and she's like playing her cards close to her chest. So that part was like not at all confusing to me. But just to recap really quickly, like the basic plot, she's like a 23 year old like first or second gen stripper on Brighton beach and she embarks like on this whirlwind romance with a 21 year old like Nepo baby oligarch son. And then his parents find out and they dispatch their henchmen that they got married. Yeah, to find out. Yeah, to find them and like annul their marriage. And they go on this wild bender to find the runaway husband and you know, the whole time she's convinced that he's going to stick up for her and sure enough he's like nowhere to be found. And then she's horribly disappointed. And as insult to injury, she's offered, like, some, like, paltry thumb to disappear and go back to her old life. I read a really interesting essay by this girl, Rainfisher Kwan, which I thought, like, leaned too heavy on this, like, hetero, capitalist, patriarchal exploitation reading because she's, like, very young and I'm assuming, queer. But she makes this good point that Sean Baker is the guy who cares about creating romantic fairy tales and mythologies to dismantle them and, like, reveal how they, like, defy or deny reality. She called an aura a demolition project. It's a story about stories, about the vast cultural narratives that enchant and delude and control us and about how love, especially heterosexual love, can be propelled by an attachment to an imagined good life even more than it is to any specific person. Like, Anora's romance is less with, like, this careless playboy Vanya or sensitive thug Igor, and more with, like, the idea of love itself, like, in part as a material payoff for all the struggle and strife that she's endured. It's like the end point of her American Dream sort of thing.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah. She says at one point when she's leaving the strip club that she wants to go on her honeymoon to Disney World. And there's like a Cinderella scene.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Sweet.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

And. Yeah, that. That is sort of the. The narrative, the story that she's telling herself in order to live.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah. And she's like. She's very normy in a way. She's like, female, like, gender swapped. Luigi coded. But there's like. Yeah. And I think setting it in a Russian context was very smart because it's, foreign but not too foreign. It's like the classic, like, Victor Shklovsky move of, like, estrangement, making strange the mundane rain. Fisher Kwan says, like, how, as a heteropessimist, okay, she felt that she was watching a different movie from most heteronormative moviegoers. Like, she says, like, for them, Ani's defeat is a jump scare. Annie's defeat. For her, it comes as no surprise because she saw it coming and they didn't.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Okay. You're so smart.

[Anna Khachiyan]

I mean, she's really young and really talented and she's, like, putting it through the turd cutter of theory that she's, like, gotten second hand.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

But I haven't read the essay. I just mean I think a lot of hetero, optimistic people to know how to watch a movie and understand what.

[Anna Khachiyan]

There'S going to be, it's like, a little pretentious.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

You have to give people a little more credit.

[Anna Khachiyan]

But what she's saying is that, like, the whole, like, breathless whirlwind, first, third.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Well, it's not.

[Anna Khachiyan]

It's a setup for sort of.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

But it's not as if Vanya is portrayed as, like, some kind of. I don't know. I. As a hetero optimist. Didn't you know? I was like, oh, he's like, just some stupid Russian wigger.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Like, he's not. He's not gonna be the one to save her, obviously. And he's never really presented. And there's no, like. Well, yeah, that red herring where he's. It's not like it ends with us. That, like, lively movie where you're like, wow, he's so suave and charming. And then there's a turn, you know, it's like, no. You're like, oh, he's just some kid.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Well, that was one of my favorite parts. Like, he is really good. He and the other Russian guy were, like, the. The best, most redeeming parts of the movie for me. Like, he's, like, kind of shy and innocent, but also, like, spoiled and thoughtless and, frankly, corrupt. And, like, he. He plays this, like, Russian rich kid.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Well.

[Anna Khachiyan]

And he's like. She's like, what do you do to afford all this? And he's like, I am a drug dealer. No, I am a gun dealer. I have some ideas for apps. And that's, like. That's what a guy like that would say. He says, like, google my dad. And when he. When he says my wife and Borat voice. And, like, you have this image of him where he's, like, you know, just gaming and hitting the bong in his McMansion. Yeah. And he's obviously, like, a loser, but it's unclear whether she can see that. And, like, she falls for it because it promises kind of, like, an escape from her life, which is less traumatic than it is, like, dull and monotonous.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

I like the scenes where she's trying to, like, coax a normal reaction out of him when they're, like, flopping around on the couch or, like, smoking weed and he's, like, zoning out and she looks the other way.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Well, yeah, I saw. So there was a lot of subsequent discourse about whether or not Anora Glamorized sex work. Obviously, a lot of lip service was paid to the sex worker community at the award ceremony, and I. In the production of the film generally. But, yeah, there was. I saw, like, it's glamorizing sex worker. No, it's secretly a right wing movie that's showing you how depraved.

[Anna Khachiyan]

I think it's both.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

I think it's both a night. Like, I think it actually is just a realistic depiction of sex work that's not, you know, necessarily the most bleak and traumatizing thing, nor the most, like, titillating and exuberant thing. It's like, I thought it did a really good job of hitting, like, the true midpoint of what life is like for someone who engages in, like, survivalist.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Sex and sex adjacent work.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Well, yeah. I have a theory for the origins of an aura which, you know, may be far fetched. I'm just spitballing, but humor me here. Like, yeah. As many people have pointed out, this movie could not have existed without this podcast, which sounds delusional and arrogant.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

I don't think that's true.

[Anna Khachiyan]

I think it's downstream from the kind of ambient, diffuse influence of the podcast. And, like, I think that there is.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Influence from the pod.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

I know Baker listens to the show.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

But that I think is. I think there could have been a version of the movie that didn't have, you know, like, I.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Maybe. But also just the idea of, like, Russian American millennials being legible enough to translate the big screen. And like.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Well, Sean Baker said the film was inspired by someone he knew or someone he knew who knew someone who was. Well, okay, so kidnapped, who was a young Russian girl who was married and then like, kidnapped for collateral.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Okay.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Who did become kind of entangled in some aspect of organized crime.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah. And the organized crime angle was interesting because it was actually like, pretty innocent and softball. Like, these. These people weren't the brutal and ruthless gangsters that you would assume they would be. They were kind of fumbling and bumbling and incompetent. But, you know, there's like, the. Them referencing an off screen character called Dasha at Tatiana. The. The Armenian gangsters and Anora's Armenian nickname, Annie. Ani. That's like a distinctly Armenian name. The tattoo song playing. And I bring this up for a reason. I don't care. I'm not, like, mad about it. I'm not trying to get credit. Like, obviously as an artist, he's allowed to be kind of vaguely and ambiently inspired by all sorts of random, different things. But the Anora character specifically reminded me of her girl, Zoe Keston, AKA weed slut.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

That's true.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Like, the story of Zoe falling in love with Hunter Biden is remarkably similar. And like, though the details have been changed.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Right.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Like a Young stripper hustling and grinding, gets called into a private room because she shares some point of interest with a mysterious client. And then it snowballs into like a short lived whirlwind romance. They kind of look alike. They're both like New York shorties with like kind of Asiatic eyes and Khazar milkers.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Well, don't you think that there is something archetypal there?

[Anna Khachiyan]

I don't know. I think it's a little too specific. Like the idea that she's like. Yeah, she's like a, you know, scrappy survivor with a warm heart who sort of like bites off more than she can chew. Here's another quote from Rain Fisher Kwan. Some critics of Anora have called it unrealistic that a woman like her, a career stripper, a native New Yorker, would fall for any of Vanya's promises. And I agree that the trope of the open hearted, earnest, gullible stripper showing a real self to her clients is both a male and a consumer fantasy. And it is unrealistic in theory until you meet Zoe.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah. Or from Mariah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah. But I wouldn't be surprised if there was like some linkage there. And like, you know, like Anora's heritage is left like deliberately ethnically ambiguous. Like it's understood that she comes from like an ex Soviet background.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

But it's unclear what exactly it is. Like, they reveal that she had a Russian speaking grandmother who never learned English.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Well, I was writing a crime movie for a while about Russo. Very similar. Like now I'm like. Yeah. A Russo Armenian karaoke hostess named Nina.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

But in Los Angeles.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Who becomes entangled with like the Korean and Armenian mafia. It was kind of like a Glendale K town.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

So story I couldn't really. I couldn't quite, you know, so I have admiration just for anyone who's able to even tell a story, but I couldn't quite. I had a lot of montages too, you know.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Well, it's easy. Yeah. I mean, I think, like, now I'm really getting to my ultimate issue with the film. But she's like triple estranged in a way. Like, she's too Russian for Americans and she's not Russian enough for the Russians. Not just because she's American, but also because she's like an ethnic. And that sort of like lends her character context and mystique. But it also is less work for the filmmakers because it's a movie for like western anglophone audiences who are like, just not.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

They're not pick up on the Trivia and whatever.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

And they're fine with it as long as it's convincing enough. And, like. Yeah, I was thinking about something. I was thinking that, like, something about the girl name being named Nora and nicknamed Annie, like, made gave me kind of like a queasy Ilities feeling because, you know, it's kind of like a fake and nonsensical but plausible sounding name that they kind of, like, plucked out of thin air in a way that would understandably, like, go undetected by most people.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

And, like, is Anora not a real name?

[Anna Khachiyan]

I don't think it's a real name. I've never heard it. Like, the nickname Ani, like I said, is specifically Armenian.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

The name Anora invented, but has, like, a distinctly Caucasian flavor. I think at some point, Igor notes that it means pomegranate. She's maybe vaguely Uzbek. Is she, like, Caucasian or Central Asian? Because they did their research or because more likely, they assume, like many Americans, that all Slavs look like Stalin. Like, I don't really care about, like, unflattering or inaccurate depictions of Russians by Western filmmakers.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

No par for the course.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Whatever. That's not my issue. Like, oh, you, as an American filmmaker, like, failed to nail the cultural coordinates. And now I'm personally aggrieved because I could have done it better. My kid could do that. I think they did a perfectly serviceable job. But there was a moment toward the end where they're, like, in a car headed to the annulment where Annie is telling Vanya, look like you're an adult. Tell them that we're legally married and that we're not getting a divorce. And what? It stuck out to me that the word they used for adult was balshoy big versus Grosli grown up. Which is, like, a very rookie mistake to make on a film set that presumably has a lot of native Russian speakers.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

But. But, like, nor is not native Russian speakers.

[Anna Khachiyan]

But does it really matter? And is it a deal breaker? Like, no, not at all. Who cares?

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Well, to me, it's plausible that she would use that word because she.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Well, he uses it.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

No, he does.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah. He says, like, yeah, bud shoi or whatever. I mean, I guess he's like.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

I recall her saying it and finding it kind of curious.

[Anna Khachiyan]

But it was.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah, it was like, a weird legible to me.

[Anna Khachiyan]

But, like, was it. Yeah, exactly.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Like, doesn't really speak Russian, so it's like.

[Anna Khachiyan]

But yeah, like, I think my issue with it is less like, that they, like, fail to convey Russians with 100% faithfulness. Because who could do that?

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Right? Like, that's big diaspora.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah, it's like a dumb hair splitting argument and more that it. It, like, uses this kind of, like, ethnic inside baseball to, like, insist on its own competence and mastery without actually making a case for itself.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

But do you think an Anglo viewer would feel that way?

[Anna Khachiyan]

No. And that's part of why it's been so successful and part of why, like, nobody notices.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Well, that's why that guy in the New York Times op ed said, we have to just. The whole Russian film industry, we can't have no Russians in any movie.

[Anna Khachiyan]

But there. It wasn't even like, the Russian thing. Like, one of the things that really grinded my gears was that Anora had this very distinct regional New York City accent that's basically extinct, except in certain parts of, like, Brooklyn, Queens, New Jersey. And certainly for people her age. She's like, doing the Fran Fine, the nanny, or Marissa Tomei and my cousin Vinny. And it doesn't really add up. Like, the only person that I know who sort of speaks like that is Ava Perlman. And she's like, the exception that proves the rule. Like, you're Anna, my daughter. And, like, that was also, like, a device that gave the film authenticity while getting around the hard work of, like, developing characters or having a convincing plot.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

I thought the plot was plausible.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah, it's. It's just plausible enough that you don't start to examine it or scrap it for parts. Mickey Madison literally looks like Fran Drescher if she was bonked over the head, which is why men love her so much, because she's, like, hot and sexy in the same way, but, like, with a touch of Sydney Sweeney. The other thing is the Armenian, she's.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Got a tender look in her eye.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah, she's good at, I don't know, like, soulful, sensual. Yeah, the Armenian parts also fell flat for me.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah, go on.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Well, that. This, like. I'm sure that, like, Armenian gangsters and Armenian priests exist on the east coast, like in Watertown, Massachusetts. But they're not the first people you think of when you think of the Russophone ex Soviet Diaspora.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Well, he wasn't a priest.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Who?

[Dasha Nekrasova]

The Armenian guy, Torus.

[Anna Khachiyan]

He was like a. Whatever. He was some kind of officiary of the church.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

He was at a. He was wearing vestments because he was participating in a baptism.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah, but he's. But what?

[Dasha Nekrasova]

You know, and that was a real Armenian church. I looked it up.

[Anna Khachiyan]

No, I know. And it was. It was well done. Like, the scene was well done and convincing. But like just the idea of like that type of Armenian, like. Well, I guess, like it didn't, it didn't add up to me. Like again, why insert Armenians into the storyline at all except to flex your chops?

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Well, because they're criminals. Sure.

[Anna Khachiyan]

But that's like such a shortcut.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

But it's the truth.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah, but it doesn't quite add up. It doesn't quite make sense in a East coast context.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Maybe, maybe you're right. I, but I. The reason Armenians. I decided to write my anora esque script about Armenians was because they seemed. When I was a karaoke hostess, I noticed that the Koreans kind of ran the bars.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

And then the Armenians patronized them. That there seemed to be some kind of like symbiotic criminal relationship between the two.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yes, definitely. I'm sure. But that's.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

And I bet a lot of those Armenians were going to like baptisms during the day and then.

[Anna Khachiyan]

No, of course I've been to a baptism like that. St. Barton's Church in Midtown maybe 14, 15 years ago now for a friend of mine who. Beautiful church. What's up?

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Beautiful.

[Anna Khachiyan]

It's beautiful. It's gorgeous. It's so tasteful and well done in a way that you wouldn't expect from Armenians. But. Yeah, like for a guy who was a friend of mine who's very reminiscent of the Vanya character. Like he was like a Russian speaking New York City rich kid who was kind of like a junkie and a playboy and they really nailed the Armenian accent when they were like, I hate it. And I, I read somewhere somebody told me that the guy who plays Tauros is Sean Baker's long term collaborator who had some kind of involvement in the script.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Okay.

[Anna Khachiyan]

So that's the most plausible explanation that like this guy who Sean Baker is friendly with and fond of, inserted his like ethno narcissistic arc into the film, which is such an Armenian thing to do. Like you would.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah. I like, I would understand if they were like, you know, like Russian Jewish gangsters or Central Asian gangsters. It just does not.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

It's not adding up.

[Anna Khachiyan]

It's not adding up for me.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

I mean. Yeah. Like. Right.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Well.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah. Uncut Gems had all like the Diamond District Jews.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah. Which makes sense.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

But this, I don't know. I guess I just. Yeah. I'm from the west coast. So to me the Armenians are like.

[Anna Khachiyan]

A staple of your experience.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah, I mean, I think like I associate them. Yeah. With like crime and punishment. With. Yeah. The post Soviet Diaspora and in America. Yeah. Is, like, linked to kind of criminal activities.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah. I mean, Duff. But that is, like, largely, overwhelmingly a West coast phenomenon. And I think, like. Yeah, my issue with it was that, like, all of these kind of finely honed, deliberately crafted details. It's like a Rachel Kushner novel. It skirts around the issue that the film overall was a little bit overlong and a little bit underwritten.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Perhaps. I'll admit. I'll permit. Hence the. Yeah. The reliance on. On montage.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah. And it's like one of those movies that, like, depends on a lot of, like, yelling and cussing and fighting and vomiting and, like, needless confusion to, like, create an illusion of, like, action intention without actually doing the work.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah. The stakes, in part because there wasn't sort of convincing enough of, like, a love story.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

The stakes felt a little low. Like, the pacing was good and the tension felt real. But ultimately, like, you're like, it's. It's. It was smaller than it aimed to be.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah. Though, like, to be clear, I think the ambiguity surrounding the nature of the love story, which is divorced from any cultural context and is universal, can be applied to any scenario. Was one of the best parts of the movie because, yeah, it's totally unclear whether these people were sincere or loved each other. And they probably were sincere in the moment and probably thought they loved each other, which is like the nature of romance. It's like the Andy Warhol, like, romance is finding your fantasy and people who don't have it right. Like, that was the best, strongest, most redeemable part of the film.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

And for Vanya, you know, he. The stakes for him are low. To get married, to do any. Like, he's spoiled.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah. He's used to living a consequence free life and getting bailed out by his rich parents, who he resents for kind of browbeating him, but always having his back, ultimately. And they're trying to discipline him, getting him to work at his dad's shadowy corporation. He doesn't give a.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

How does like. And the Igor character, how does he come into the mix?

[Anna Khachiyan]

He's like. Yeah, he's like a hired thug.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Okay.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Who's sent along with the Armenians to, like.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Because the Armenians are implied to be kind of the, like, caretakers of Vanya.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah, they're like.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

They allude to, like, having put up with this for his whole life. Yeah. They've always been, like, getting him out of trouble and whatnot. And that they. They've been tasked with.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah, they're.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

They're pseudo guardians.

[Anna Khachiyan]

The family's functionaries in the United States because they have more roots here or whatever. I thought Ivy was very much in her element. Ivy was great because it's her forte as, you know, a comedic actress to do yelling and cussing and self deprecating humor.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

That was a bit. I found actually the most more implausible than the Armenians was that they would have this friend group.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yes.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Like worked at a kid. I mean, but that's just good clean fun. Like movie stuff. Like you just have act. That's like, that's indie filmmaking. You're like, we have a candy store. Like, let's write.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Blind and deaf guy who's not an actor.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah. That's just like, I appreciate that.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Just, I mean that reminded me of like the great part in your movie where the girls go into that weird like black magic and special elixir shop and there's that guy hanging out behind.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

The register and Mike bilandic as the shopkeeper too. It's like, that's like when you are making a movie for so little money, you're kind of just working with what you have.

[Anna Khachiyan]

But I was scrappy.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Like, they're. The clique that Vanya associated with was like a mix of like rich Russian kids and then also kind of like Brighton beach. Like candy sort of.

[Anna Khachiyan]

That was one of them. So two things stuck out at me about that part of the movie. A, a guy like Vanya, why is he friends with random working class Brighton beach kids who have normal service jobs? Like, I was under the impression originally that those kids were similarly like sons of the oligarchy, but they're not, which is bizarre and improbable. Also, why would they search for him mostly on the Brighton beach boardwalk, which is a place that children of the Russian ultra rich don't really frequent, except for that one gated community. Like, that's an area that's frequented by like Russian Jewish pensioners, millennial tourists and like Muslim families.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

He did live there. And that house.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Was a real Russian oligarch's house.

[Anna Khachiyan]

It's like, I know the area. It's like when you drive a little.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

It'S like almost sheep's head. It's like.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah, yeah. And that there are. I've walked past houses like that randomly one night with Leah McSweeney and we were like trying to figure out who lived there and how we could like get in. We were trying to do like the anora and her friend going to the New Year's party. She's just like me for real. When Russian Guys are like. And I'm like.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

But yeah, I thought that the house was. Was great.

[Anna Khachiyan]

The house really looked nicely done.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

And it was. That's because it was what it. Like that.

[Anna Khachiyan]

It's like that vibe.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah. Look at the suburban home I grew up in.

[Anna Khachiyan]

It's like. It's a movie that like, spikes your cortisol and makes you less beautiful, which is something that Puerto Rican Veronica said, paraphrasing Slavic Veronica. Like, it is like very like fast paced, high octane, whatever. But, you know, as she also pointed out, which I thought was a great insight, it's a movie that really strains the usefulness of an artistic rule of thumb, like show, don't tell. Because I think they do a little too much showing and not enough explaining. The movie doesn't really explain how you get from point A to point B to point C.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah. But you know, it's. For me at least the. In the experience of watching it as a film, as an indie filmmaker, you know, when you Are you. Because you do kind of spaz and trip out about like, you know, you're like, how are people gonna know that they're. You have to find like a middle ground between like, over explaining and giving your audience some credit to like.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Weave together information that they're meant to understand. In this case, with a little. A little too much montage.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah. But I think the major fault of this movie is that it pretends to give the audience credit but really kind of condescends to them.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

You think?

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah, a little bit. Because it's just like implied that they know what they're talking about. They're the experts here. They've done their research. And, you know, you should use your instinct, your intuition to like, fill in the blanks, connect the dots or whatever. But they don't really go through the trouble of doing the work of explaining how all of this comes together. So, like, that's where like. Like the minor, ordinarily negligible cultural inaccuracies come into play.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

But if you look at the film, like the film's emotional through line through the protagonist of Anora.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

You know, it's not so significant. Like why the Armenians are in the syndicate.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Like how. Where the money is coming from.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Well, yeah, but that's like. I guess that's my beef because I don't like superfluous detail in filmmaking and writing and art of any kind.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Mm.

[Anna Khachiyan]

That's my biggest. I think.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Well, what did you think was superfluous?

[Anna Khachiyan]

Like all the. The kind of ethnic inside baseball which was, you know, partly necessary because that's the context of the film. I get it. But I think they leaned too heavily into that versus the kind of actual material that they were grappling with, if that makes any sense.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

I wish the Armenians were Jews and there was more anti Semitic.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah. And like. Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

And instead of saying you, like, instead of saying you fucking Armenian. You Armenian. You know, if they're saying you and.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Just like all the curses supposed to, like, dial up the temperature.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Sure.

[Anna Khachiyan]

And they're like, shifting between 3. Armenian is such an ugly language. By the way. This movie actually did me a solid and really made me realize that because literally just sounds like a tape being played backwards. Whereas Russia is such a, like, beautiful and profound and poetic language.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah, it really is.

[Anna Khachiyan]

And Armenian is like.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

I mean, it's hard to. You know. I think that Shawn Baker did his due diligence that the movie was adequately researched.

[Anna Khachiyan]

I mean, like, given that he's like an American guy. He did an amazing job. It was very skillful and impressive. He did not embarrass himself.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah, he's a. He swept.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah, he's. But I mean, he didn't even embarrass himself, like making a movie about a culture that he's not part of and doesn't quite understand. He did a really solid job.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

I mean, think of how if anyone else made, you know, in this climate.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

To make a movie about Russian Americans and native Russians.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

There's like, I get so many. Not so many, but like, you know, I. I'm on some list where I get, you know, the occasional audition for some Russian speaking part in some TV or film. And yeah, it's always some, like a gold digger, a prostitute. And the depictions of the Russians are always like. We're just far worse. The bar is so low.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Lana from the Sopranos in the pre opic before she loses her leg.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

And I would.

[Anna Khachiyan]

That would actually be kind of cool. They should do a Soprano spin off. That's not. Whatever. The many saints of Newark snore gay. And they should do one about, like, the. The specifically Russian.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Gangsters and criminals that were orbiting the whole Italian American scene. That would be cool.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

That would be cool. Now there's a space.

[Anna Khachiyan]

My fucking annoying, like, Jersey strong accent jumps out when I get a little drunk. Drunk.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Drunk. Yeah. I mean, there was a period of time where it was like every audition I got was for like, a woman in a shipping container, a jacket hooker, number three, patrol farm operator. And so I. Yeah, I just appreciate kind of the nuance Even if it's imperfect.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah. And even just, like, the idea of putting, like, Russians on the map in a politically neutral way.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

But an aura really was Uncut Gems for Girls, for me, because it's similarly, like, fast paced and stressful, which is to its credit. That's intentional. But it's like, somehow, like, in a way, like, I don't want to. It's not less competent, but it's, like.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Less tight because there's not on. Kitchen's more stressful but less compelling.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah. I mean, it's also like a movie that's not really. For us. It's a very, like, hetero, patriarchal film. It's for the boys, but there's like.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

They'Re very segregated by gender. But in Uncut Gems. Right. It was like, you know, he owed money. He. He's. It was like the gambler, you know, it's like he has to, like, pay off his gambling debts and he's getting deeper and deeper into. It's very straightforward. It's very Save the Cat. It's very textbook.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

And like I said, like, the stakes here are just more nebulous because you don't really know, because you don't necessarily know or believe that Anora has real, significant, meaningful feelings for Vanya. Or, like, what the stakes even really, you know, that, like, yeah, she. This marriage is a way for her to, like, escape her life.

[Anna Khachiyan]

That part was probably the best part for me because it was so unclear and ambiguous, and that's how human relations really are. It's unclear from the outside looking in whether someone really loves somebody else.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

But that diminishes, like. Or for me, diminished, I guess, the. The tension of the second half of the searching for Vanya and the will they annul their marriage or not. It sort of. It didn't feel that significant. Or there was something kind of, like, inevitable.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Whereas in Uncut Gems, he's like, maybe he's gonna win this fucking bet or whatever. Whatever was going on.

[Anna Khachiyan]

I've, like, historically been very critical of Uncut Gems, but the. The. The person who helped me reframe my narrative was an Armenian guy, friend of the pod, Alex Vartan, who was like, okay, this is a movie that's, like, metaphorically, symbolically about the stages of drug addiction or, like, addiction as such. Because he's an addict. Yeah, he's not a literal drug addict in the movie. He's a gambling addict. But it's the nature of, like, being addicted to something. But the reason I draw the comparison is because it has it Anora and, like, Uncut Gems doesn't have, like, a controlled mechanism for, like, the release of stress or tension. And it's just, like, chaotic and confused ethnic yelling, like, all the way through the. The last two thirds of the film. And, you know, it's mainly meant to, again, like, make the filmmaker look good and, like, he knows what he's doing, which is not untrue.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

They do be yelling.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

I watched with Riley and he was like, this is like, you and your parents. Yeah, this is like, we went to the bistro in the strip mall with your parents, and you guys started screaming at each other about Ukraine.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Did you really?

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah, I know. And I was like, it's a conflict. I was like, like, we just, like, switch over to Russia and all our screaming and Riley's sitting there politely.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah, it's like you're, like, switching into English and you're like. And it made me think of, like, the bit that we always do on the show that's, like, too real about how, like, our parents are, like, too, like, indifferent and uninterested in ever meeting our boyfriends. It's, like, so bleak and dark, I think, like. Yeah. One of. One of the best parts for me was when they show the basic incompatibility and mistrust of Russian versus American culture. In the scene with. When Anora finally meets Vanya's mother, Galina Stepanova, and she, like, attempts to, like, break the ice and speak to her in her, like, charmingly botched, like, American accented Russian and G, like Crukes. And, like, the opening scene, like, all cultural context aside, was good because it. It, you know, Anora is, like, working class. She's a sex worker. She's a person who lives a fringe lifestyle. And it shows how girls who do that sort of thing for a living constantly have to face, like, awkward rejection, but put on, like, a happy face. Like, have a perennially, like, upbeat and chipper demeanor. Like, I think both of our stripper friends Zoe and Mariah have talked about this, where she's going, like, yeah, Hi, my name is Anora. What's your name? What do you do? Oh, are you waiting for somebody else? And she's getting hard worker. Yeah, yeah. And she's just getting, like, nagged and rejected. And it's kind of okay because it's, like, in this con, like, pay pig context. So it's not real.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Well, you're really. It's. Well, in the way you said that Uncut Gems was about addiction. I think it's also Much like a Nora, really, about, like.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Delusion.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Well, filmmaking.

[Anna Khachiyan]

How so?

[Dasha Nekrasova]

It's like the way that every movie is really about making a movie.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Which is a lot like prostitution or being a drug addict.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Well, it's a lot of, like, having to believe when every sign, every, like, data point says that you should give up and pack it in.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

And, like. Yeah. You know, it made me think, like. Yeah. Like, she's a stripper and an escort. She's no dummy. She's been around the block. But by virtue of being Americanized, she seems much more sort of, like, naive.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

And optimistic compared to these, like, godless and nihilistic Russians. I thought it was obviously, like, a very smart move to go with this Russian context versus doing, like, crazy rich Asians or, like, Bollywood Indians. Because, like, her.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

I mean, say what you will about Sean Baker's filmography as, like, a poverty pornographer or whatever, it's. I think he is concerned with a kind of realism and the Russian setting of Anora. I guess you don't find it so plausible.

[Anna Khachiyan]

No, I do. I do. I find, like, the premise, like, or the conceit to be, like, cool and original. I'm not against that because it, like, provides you with enough critical distance while maintaining some level of familiarity. Like, they're. They're. These people are foreign, but they're not so foreign that you can't relate to them.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah. Russia's a perfect, like, foil in many ways. And it gives you, like, this access to luxury culture that's very satisfying on the screen. Yeah. You know, sure, you could make a movie about, like, a handjob parlor worker who meets a. Who gives a hand job to a rich man or something. But that's just a told. You know, this was, like, a really good.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Well, it's like a refraction of American culture, which is, you know, just as vulgar and nihilistic in a way. But because Americans are in it, they can't necessarily see it for what it is.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah. And there's, like. I don't know. I'm just. It's coming to me now, but that something about Honora's character being more Americanized and still having a kind of potentially romantic. Though she's cynical in her own ways about marriage. Right. As, like, an American institution that's meaningful. And then for, like, the nefarious Russians, it's just something that's, like, done to punish your parents, who then.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah. And I mean, I. I don't even think, like. I think that Vanya, when he proposes to her in the hotel suite suite in Vegas, like, is fully sincere in that moment.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Like, he's not leading her on. He's not lying to her in that moment. But he's a guy who lives in the moment.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Because he has no past or future, just, like, an endless sprawling present. And, yeah, the marriage thing, it reminded me of, like, that land shark thread. That's, like, one of my favorite threads of all time. That was like, you know, the worst thing that you can do to a woman is lead her on and waste her time and over promise and under deliver and. Yeah, like, that's sort of what he does. Like, and she may be a stripper who does escort work on the side, and he may be a corrupt and dissolute, like, Nepo baby rich kid, but in that moment, they shared something that was close to love, and he, you know, like, betrayed and stained it and.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

For both of them was a mechanism of escape. Right. When he proposes to her, it's sort of to ostensibly become American and so that he can, like, stick it to his parents and have to work for his dad's mysterious company. And she gets to. Not. The strip club she works at is in Manhattan, actually. Yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah. That was, like, one of the most annoying things where they spent, like, the second, like, two thirds of the movie. Like, it's, like, searching around Brighton Beach. And then in a. Like, a moment, she, like, the electric bulb went off, like, the Edison bulb. And she's like, oh, yeah, he's in Manhattan at my strip club. But, like, yeah, it's like, no matter how, like, casual and shallow your relations are, and no matter how hard and cynical you've become, there. Like, every woman has experienced this moment where somebody, like, a man says something kind of, like, profound and meaningful to her, where he, like, jokingly proposes marriage or proposes to knock her up, and it literally rewires your brain in that moment. Like, I was thinking of, like, when we did Megyn Kelly, and I was, like, besmirching Ashley St. Clair by way of defending her. And I was like, yeah, like, all of us girls, we talk about getting knocked up by the guy we're into at the moment in our group chats and, like, text messages, she's like, I've never done that. What are you talking about?

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah, we're like, you should baby trap him.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah. But it's like, of course. Everybody, like, casually throws that around. And when you're, like, hot and heavy, you're like, yeah, like, let's get married. Let's have a baby. It's like hot and horny.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah. I'm like, I'm Catholic. You can't pull out.

[Anna Khachiyan]

But it does like, get your hopes up. And her hopes are like hopelessly crushed by the end of it.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Rainfisher Kwan was saying that like a kind of a spirit of crushing nihilism pervades the whole movie. And I was thinking about whether that was due to the fact that this is a movie about people who are generally crushingly nihilistic in spirit or because kind of whole conceit. The message of the movie itself is crushingly nihilistic, which is like, wake up and smell the roses.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Like back to reality, you dumb void.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Well, I saw. Well, okay. So then Mikey Madison also caught some flack for some interviewers. She said that she didn't use an in. There wasn't an intimacy coordinator, which some real midwives took issue with, but I couldn't be more pleased about. Yeah, because intimacy coordinators are scum. They're the dei.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Like, we need Doge forgot the intimacy coordinator industry.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

I did a movie with an intimacy coordinator where I wasn't even doing a sex scene. I was just doing like kind of a emotionally charged scene.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

And they brought an intimacy coordinator to set who was just some like millennial Canadian chick who like would check in with me and make sure I had like a self care routine in place. Or like, she was. I remember her asking me if I thought the work that I was doing was triggering. And I was like, I'm. I'm literally an actress.

[Anna Khachiyan]

It's your job to be triggered.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

I'm trying my hardest to be triggered. Triggered so that I can have like, so I can emote on screen.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Because I like visited a film set recently and they were like talking about how like, you have to come now because afterward it's going to be a closed set and right now it's an open set and whatever. And I didn't understand what these terms meant, so I kind of like naively asked, like, what's that all about? And basically the long and short of it was like, when the intimacy coordinator is on set, weird random visitors can't be there.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Well, a close set can happen like.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Well, yeah, if they're having like an intense or whatever.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

It's explained all this close a set, you know, besides like, people who really need to be there for something. Like.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

For something where the. An actor is especially exposed, but an intimacy coordinator doesn't need to be there, period.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah, no, it's preposterous that the whole like, idea of intimacy Coordinators even exists.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

It's crazy.

[Anna Khachiyan]

It is literally just administrative bloat.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Like, those people have no place, no business intervening in the art of filmmaking. It's preposterous that people even have to hire them. I hope. I hope what Anora does is, like, put an end to intimacy coordinators because people refuse to work with them.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

I mean, I would love to, but, yeah, it's something that's done. It's not even like. I mean, there might be some SAG provision or something for it, but mostly I think it's something that's done by directors and producers to sort of, like, pay lip service to what they've done to. You know, it's just like, liability coverage.

[Anna Khachiyan]

I know, but that's what it all comes down to in all industries.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

It was. Yeah, they're. They're as bad as liability. During COVID there was, like, it was literally someone's job to come up to me every five minutes and tell me to put a mask on.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

If, like, it took too long to.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Set up a shot, that person was getting paid to do that. So they really wanted to be there because it was a paycheck, it was a livelihood.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Which is, like, grotesque.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

It's no way to. No way to live.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

It's like, no way to work. It's the way to work.

[Anna Khachiyan]

It's like leading a woman on a.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Way to make a movie. And. Yeah. Intimacy coordination is really farcical.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

And I hope we can all get on the same page.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah. Just like, once you, like, zoom out and realize what it is, you're like, why is this even in place? And why does anybody stand for it?

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Because part of MeToo perpetuated this narrative that actresses are uniquely disempowered and that there's all sorts of, like, exploitation going.

[Anna Khachiyan]

On, but they become actresses because they want to be uniquely disempowered. Like, what are you talking about? That was. This is a part of the movie that I am on the fence about, because on one hand, I liked it, but on the other hand, I found it suspicious. Like, the end of the film where there's this, like, vague, conservative, anti MeToo dog whistling where she, the anora and Igor are hanging out, spending a final night in the Zahara mansion before she has to go back to her old life. And she says that he has rape eyes. And he's like, what? No, I'm not a rapist. He's, like, genuinely freaked out.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

By her allegation. And she's, like, trying to provoke him into raping because, you know, like, that's how it is. Whenever there's a man and a woman, they will. And, like, that's what ends up happening. But, like, I would. On one hand, it was like a. A proud and powerful anti me too anti libtards dance. But on the other hand, it's like, we get it. You're, like, so based and you were caught liking pro. Kyle Rittenhouse tweets.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

I don't think it's that methodical.

[Anna Khachiyan]

I don't. I mean, I think. I think it comes from, like, a kind of genuine instinct.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

About gender dynamics and human nature.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Like, he gets it.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Like, he gets how things really work in the real world.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Exactly.

[Anna Khachiyan]

In spite of all, like, the theorizing and.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Had this movie, like, intellectualizing and whatever.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Not had the freedom that it did due to being an indie. That's exactly the kind of scene some, like.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Conglomerate of producers would say actually he should rape her to show that, you know.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Or like, that's this kind of thing that typically doesn't go, like, unchecked.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah. This was, like, Eli's take on it. And he liked the movie overall, but he was saying that, like, the. The last scene was unconvincing because in reality, a guy like Igor would have raped her kind of, like, callously and insensitively, but, like, that's not what happens. And she kind of, like, jerks him off in the car and the mov. I thought the ending was really good, like, how it's. There's no music and it just ends on the motor running. Like, it was so kind of, like, sad and demoralizing.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah. I saw people have very disparate reads of the end of the film.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

I saw some, like, sex worker activist type people talking about how she's having sex with a guy she's not even attracted to because she's so disempowered from her line of work. And I didn't really feel that way at all.

[Anna Khachiyan]

It's not true. She's very clearly attracted to him and he's attracted to.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

To her.

[Anna Khachiyan]

That's. That's probably the most kind of redeeming romance of the entire film that, like.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

But I don't think a guy like him would have necessarily raped her. And I think that is partly due to. Or mostly due to the performance.

[Anna Khachiyan]

What do you mean by Yuri?

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Oh, yeah, you know, really hot. He's super hot. But he also. He has this kind of, like. He was extreme, super well cast. And. Yeah, he didn't seem like the kind of guy that would rape her. He did seem.

[Anna Khachiyan]

He does have this, like, pale and clammy Russian thing going for him.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah. Kind of like, knowing, kind of world.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Weary, sad, plaintive, puppy dog eyes.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

He's too, like, sad to rape her, you know, he doesn't. He's not.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

He, like, has an aggression that obviously he can utilize, but he's. I. That scene I thought was very good and that he was very good.

[Anna Khachiyan]

And I thought. What I liked about it also was that he's supposedly this hired thug who's, like, somehow associated with organized crime, but he's actually just like your average, like, Russian schmuck living on Brighton beach in his grandma's house, driving his grandma's car.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, they. The final scene I thought was also good because they both. Yeah, they're these, like, lump and prol. You know, like underdogs that are both.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Kind of, like, losers of society.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah. They live to live to kind of in service of others. And it makes sense that they would have be drawn to one another in the way that they are and under the painful circumstances that they're in.

[Anna Khachiyan]

And they're sort of tough but sentimental. It reminded me, you know, like, the, like, big, untranslatable word, borschlist. Like, I was thinking about, like, Zelensky and how he's such a. He's, like, the definition of Bushlist. Like, he should. Like, his picture should be in the dictionary next to the word because he's so brutish and vulgar and maudlin. Like, he oscillates between, like, extreme, like, threatening and extreme sentimentalism. Like, I don't. I don't think this movie was quite bushly, but it was like something close to that. It was like Bush list in translation, you know, like, where they're, like, kind of getting at this core quality of, like, the Russian soul.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Nihilistic has never been the right word for it. Like, demoralized, disaffected, cynical, but also super sensitive and sentimental.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah. The duality.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah. Disaffected precisely because it's so sensitive. Which is something I think, at core that all people can relate to. Just, like, Russians manifest it more.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah. And they have. Well, Russian women of a certain ilk.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

I think are, in that way. The Anora character is very realistic because I think they, like. While they do have this kind of, like, pragmatic transactional framework, it's sort of a facade for a kind of, like, romantic tenderness.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah. Because you're always trying to get ahead of being Horribly hurt and disappointed. And you already know what's going to happen in advance.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

And when you're in survival mode.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

You know, you are able to like dissociate from or ignore certain red flags.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Because deep down, like we've said so I don't think we came up with that. That you're like an optimist masquerading as a pessimist.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah. I mean, I think like Russians are unique in that they actually don't ignore or deny the red flags. They notice and accept them, but they live life as if. Anyway, Rainfisher Kwan at the end of the essay makes a very kind of religious argument where she says, like, you know, the, the moral of the story is like, you're going to be exploited anyway, so why not believe in love? It's like your life is going to suck and be full of trials and tribulations, so why not have faith?

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Even though the concept of faith, as Nick Fuentes said recently on one of his streams, is a mystery and people are always trying to get to the bottom of it and like find data and evidence to support their reason for having faith. But like the whole concept of faith defies logic and reason.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah. It's the point.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah. That's like the whole point. Otherwise it's not faith.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

And you're just a crude materialist.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Some calculation.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah. So like what choice do you have other than being like a hard boiled survivalist who secretly believes in the possibility of an island.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

I guess that's like how I would put it.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

There was also a very touching part toward the end when they're like, it's like night and they're freezing on the boardwalk. That was actually like really accurate in a way that kind of redeemed the whole film. When they were like in one of the Brighton beach clubs and the Armenian guy was like, unas prabal binoid. And then later on, the bald asshole guy drapes the scarf that he had previously gagged Anora with over her and was like, you'll get cold if you don't cover your neck. Those were the most like truly accurately Russian lines of the whole movie. Because Russians love to call everybody sick in the head, but also love to worry about getting actually sick.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Right.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Like if you like stand in the cold for too long or like sit on like a granite surface, you're going to, you're going to get really sick and you might be infertile and you should use these beets to rouge your lips and cheeks.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Right.

[Anna Khachiyan]

And I was really impressed with that because I was like, I don't. Like, it was so, like, skillful. Like, where did you get that from? Was that improv?

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Who knows? I mean, the Hermet. I think it's an Hermes scarf.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah, that was. That belonged to the mother, right?

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Another not to. But in this. In scary, we recreate the Epstein hanging with an orange bed sheet. Because the prison sheets in the. It was. We did. I did a whole Hermes thing and there's a photo of me gagged with, like, an orange scarf.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah, I'm. I'm saying there are little breadcrumbs everywhere should you choose to call.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

It's okay. That's not. It's okay to be. To channel the zeitgeist.

[Anna Khachiyan]

No, I know, but, like, I think it just like, my. My hunch, my instinct. Like, it's like people were getting down on us when we were like, oh, like, White Lotus season one was inspired by the podcast because we had, like, inside knowledge and they were like, you guys are, like, delusional and. But sure enough, it turned out that it just was. Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Are you watching the new season?

[Anna Khachiyan]

Are you?

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah, I have.

[Anna Khachiyan]

I'm, like, so backed up on everything.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Well, it's. It comes out once a week, which is nice.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Oh, okay. I'll get into. I haven't watched the second season. I hate to say, oh, I love White Lotus and Mike White, but I'm just, like, drunk and demoralized.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Sure. It's hard to. I watched all of Yellowstone and the Spin off, so I'm happy for any new programming. And the new season's quite good.

[Anna Khachiyan]

I. I believe that. I. I love the. What's the Arnold Schwarzenegger? Nepo Baby Patrick. Yeah. And he was like, I'm. I'm actually like a hard working, authentic actor and my success has nothing to do with my father.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Okay.

[Anna Khachiyan]

But, like, yeah, you know how I feel about Nepo baby discourse. I think it's like, fake and gay because, like, okay, so your parents are rich and famous, but if you do.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Something with yourself, there's plenty of Nebo babies who don't.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

There's far more people who have famous parents who are trying to be actors and not succeeding. So I think, yeah, they have some advantages, but it's neither fair nor pertinent to really critique someone for taking advantage of.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Guess I would say, like, as much as I get, like, annoyed with this film, I think about, like, the complexities and difficulties of, like, putting it together.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Oh, my God.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Which is probably all post production.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Well, that's best editing yeah, and it's just like, it won for screenplay editing. It's, you know, it's. I'm pro. A return to, like, you know, tourism across the board.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Mm.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

That any time a filmmaker is celebrated and has the control that Shawn Baker did is a net positive.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Well, yeah. And it's all, like. It's a net positive for the culture, but it's not necessarily a net positive for him because. Well, because now the pressure is on, and he has to deliver the next thing. And it's actually much harder than it.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Looks because he's made so many movies. He's so pretty.

[Anna Khachiyan]

No, I know, but, like, he's, like, a relatively young guy. He's, like, what, like, 50, 52?

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Is he. Yeah, he's, like, so young.

[Anna Khachiyan]

He looks really young and sprightly. Irish don't crack. No, it does. It really does.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Like, cracks quick. Oh, yeah. Wow. He's 54.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Okay. So, okay, he's even older than I thought. But, like, he's a young guy in the context, in the grand scheme of being, like, an auteur. And now, after sweeping the Oscars, he has to follow it up with something even bigger.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

I mean, he's made. This is his eighth film. It's hard to scale. It's hard to get out of indie jail, as Ivy and I like to say. We're on death row in indie jail.

[Anna Khachiyan]

It's like, you know, a major, like, triumph for him, but it's not necessarily gonna be, like, an easier smooth ride. Like, he really has to get back to the drawing board now, which he probably has something. Yeah, I'm sure he has something up his sleeve.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah. But, yeah, hopefully he doesn't, like, capitulate to some, like, faking gay, like, market.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Value demand, like Yorgo, Solanthomos or Ruben. Is that his name? Ausland?

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

I'm gonna see if I have any more notes. I was. I mean, my litmus test for, like, a movie. Ultimately, as much as, like, I was annoyed and irritated by this movie, would I watch it again? Probably.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Whereas, like, what was the last movie we reviewed?

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Nosferatu.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah. Like, that. I will never, ever, like. I don't care.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Who won best costume.

[Anna Khachiyan]

I don't know.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

That's a good question, by the way. Let me look. Yeah, I thought Elena Velez should have done the Nosferatu costume. Oh, Wicked. Ugh. Another movie I'm definitely not interested in. Watch. Conclave was nominated for the Vatican movie for costumes, and I was like, those are just what they wear.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah, those are. You didn't Design those accurately translated original costumes to cinema.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

That's like, just what they wear. That's not fair.

[Anna Khachiyan]

The costumes in Anora were pretty good.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Like the stupid, like, Y2K hoodie that the little shit rat is wearing at the end.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Oh, yeah, he. Yeah, everyone was well styled. Her, like, bandage dresses.

[Anna Khachiyan]

He was. I mean, he was really so amazing. It's. It's very unclear and I don't really care to get to the bottom of it, whether he's good because he really got into the role or whether he's just playing himself.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

It doesn't matter.

[Anna Khachiyan]

It doesn't matter.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

But something people love to, like, throw at me.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

I'm just playing myself. It's like, first of all, you don't know me. Second of all, it's really hard to play yourself. It's like harder to play yourself than to play caricature of someone. But either way, like, he did a good job. It doesn't matter.

[Anna Khachiyan]

But he was like, really such an insufferable little. That guy.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

I know. Yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

And I forgot what I was gonna say something about that guy.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

The Vanya character.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

I thought he had really good. I thought, like, I really thought you're. Yuri. Boris. What's his name?

[Anna Khachiyan]

Horosov.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Borisov. Yeah. He.

[Anna Khachiyan]

I thought he was amazing.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Great. And I thought Mikey Madison was really good.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Who?

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Mikey Madison.

[Anna Khachiyan]

She. She was okay. She was very hit or miss.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

I think she has a very special quality, isn't it? She does in very rare supply. In the last I saw that she. The last actress to. Who was born in the 90s to win an Oscar was Jennifer Lawrence.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Oh, yeah. When she was like 21 or 22. I. But I think it's funny that, like, I'm. I'm happy for an aura that they won best Screenplay and Best Actress, but the screenplay and the actress are, to me, like the weakest links of the movie. Because the screenplay is. Yeah. Just like a lot of ethnic yelling that anyone could write. Like, you could chat GPT it. They're like. And then the actress, she's good at some points, but then you see like, the break in the fourth wall in certain moments when she's like, be a man. Tell me what you really think. And like, her accent vacillates. It's very imperfect, but I guess it's like a good showing for like, a young, untried actress.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

And as someone like Jennifer Lawrence, obviously really talented, has the career to back that up.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Like, not. Not a fan of J Law, but someone like Mikey Madison just has A much more like human and humane. And she just registers on a different level. She doesn't have, like, veneers.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah. But when people are like, kind of like coming down on this film and they're like, oh, yeah, like they won all the awards and it's like unwarranted and it sucked. Like, you think about what the future of these young people will be, and it's going to be them going out for new roles, like, probably getting typecast. It's not going to be like an easy thing necessarily. I mean, Adrien Brody actually said it best in the course of his speech, which was like, annoying and gay and leaned into some like, vague, like the free press, anti Semitic hate angle. But he was talking about how, like, people think that, like, Hollywood and acting is so glamorous, but it's really not. You're constantly being, like, humiliated and rejected. It's a lot like being a stripper.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah, sure is.

[Anna Khachiyan]

And you have to, like.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

But it's both.

[Anna Khachiyan]

You have to, like, follow up your great success with something new, which is like, not necessarily in the cards.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah.

[Anna Khachiyan]

I mean, I'm sure she'll be fine. Like, she'll get cast in White Lotus season four or whatever.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Oh, she's gonna. I mean, that would not. She's gonna have a great career. This is a. It's what we call a breakout role.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Mickey Madison in the Zoe Keston Story.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

And I don't think she'll be type. I think she'll be smart enough.

[Anna Khachiyan]

To me, she's going to play Michelle Trachtenberg. She another like, porcelain skinned Jewish girl with Kar milkers. She did have a really tight body.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Well, she did. She trained.

[Anna Khachiyan]

She. And she did the pole dance.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Yeah. She was. She prepared for this role.

[Anna Khachiyan]

You know, I was thinking about that when she was doing like the thing where she was like, dangling from the pole upside down. And I was like, man, I would love to be a pole dancer in my indie film. Just to narcissistically, like, look smacks and gain some core strength.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Totally. Well, Margaret Qualley did that for the substance.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Like a lot of, like, choreographed dancing.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

She just got really, you know, like toned.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah, yeah. I draw my inspiration from Zoomer. Actresses such as this, like, get back to the gym.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

That's good motivation.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

To get up on that pole. It is a good workout.

[Anna Khachiyan]

It is, yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Tremendous core strength.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

Did her own stunts. You know, that's not nothing.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

We don't.

[Anna Khachiyan]

We're at like the two hour mark, the witching hour.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

I guess that's it.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah, that's fine with me.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

All right, well, here, you. You asked for it.

[Anna Khachiyan]

Yeah, and you got what you deserved.

[Dasha Nekrasova]

See you now.