Grok of Shit

Summary

Podcast Summary: Red Scare – Episode "Grok of Shit"

Release Date: July 11, 2025
Hosts: Anna Khachiyan and Dasha Nekrasova
Description: Red Scare is a cultural commentary podcast hosted by bohemian layabouts Anna Khachiyan and Dasha Nekrasova.

---

1. Holiday Reflections and Personal Anecdotes

The episode begins with Anna and Dasha discussing their Fourth of July experiences. Both mention getting drunk and enjoying daytime activities due to the ongoing pandemic, leading to observations about empty public spaces.

• Dasha (00:47): "I was drunk."
• Anna (00:50): "I got drunk. I went to the bath."

2. Gender and Driving Stereotypes

A brief exchange touches on gender stereotypes related to driving abilities, with both hosts humorously questioning the competence of female drivers.

• Dasha (01:22): "They're just not as good at driving cars."
• Anna (01:33): "Steps on the gas, flips the car. Two young lives extinguished."

3. Jeffrey Epstein Conspiracy Theories

A significant portion of the episode delves into the Jeffrey Epstein case, exploring various conspiracy theories surrounding his death and the alleged existence of a client list implicating high-profile individuals.

• Dasha (04:22): "I haven't really been following it. I know we're not going to get the truth."
• Anna (05:51): "Bondi's own claim made during a Fox News interview... no such list exists."

The hosts critically analyze public figures' (e.g., Pam Bondi) statements and media coverage, expressing skepticism about the transparency and conclusions drawn by authorities.

• Dasha (09:00): "It's so implausible that he killed himself."
• Anna (10:22): "The truth is somewhere in the middle."

4. Impact of Epstein Case on Public Discourse

Anna and Dasha discuss how the Epstein saga has influenced public discourse, comparing it to other high-profile cases like Diddy's and Weinstein's. They argue that such cases have devolved into status symbols for conspiracy theorists and have muddled genuine discussions about power and abuse.

• Anna (19:44): "The Epstein files are a kind of theodicy... people are accusing..."
• Dasha (26:31): "But he was like 80. Diddy. That's his."

5. Critique of Media and Legal Proceedings

The hosts critique the media's role in shaping narratives around sexual misconduct cases, emphasizing the lack of substantial evidence in some prosecutions and the subsequent rise of civil lawsuits as opportunistic ventures.

• Anna (28:22): "He was killed off due to potentially incriminating financial crimes."
• Dasha (32:14): "Some justice needs to be served."

They express frustration with how media sensationalism undermines the legal process, leading to what they perceive as "kangaroo courts."

6. Discussion on Third-Party Politics and Elon Musk

Anna and Dasha transition to discussing Elon Musk's attempts to create a third political party, analyzing its feasibility and underlying motives. They express skepticism about Musk's political aspirations, citing his lack of political experience and the challenges inherent in establishing a new party within the entrenched two-party system.

• Dasha (52:18): "He is starting a third party, the America Party..."
• Anna (54:21): "America Party, that's mainly devoted to the cause of deficit reduction."

7. Sexual Dynamics and Safe Sex Debate

A contentious segment focuses on the normalization of choking during sex, critiquing recent legislation aimed at criminalizing such practices. The hosts debate the safety and consensual nature of such acts, juxtaposing them against other sexual risks like tampon use.

• Anna (84:10): "There's no safe way to do it."
• Dasha (89:05): "There's nothing wrong with that."

They argue that societal discomfort with certain sexual practices stems from broader issues of power dynamics and consent.

8. Identity Politics and College Admissions

The conversation shifts to identity politics, particularly in the context of college admissions. Anna and Dasha discuss a controversial figure, Zoran (likely Elon Musk's pseudonymous persona), manipulating his racial identity to gain preferential treatment.

• Anna (68:50): "He was checking the African American box to signal high IQ."
• Dasha (69:58): "He exploited their black and Asian identity for personal gain."

They critique the exploitation of racial and ethnic identities within institutional frameworks, highlighting the complexities and dishonesty involved.

9. Final Thoughts and Closing Remarks

In the concluding moments, Anna and Dasha reflect on the challenges of modern relationships, consent, and the impact of societal norms on personal interactions. They emphasize the importance of understanding one's desires and maintaining honest communication to navigate the complexities of intimate relationships.

• Dasha (100:16): "You have to take responsibility for what you want."
• Anna (104:08): "There's no safe way to have sex."

---

Key Takeaways

• Skepticism Towards Official Narratives: Both hosts exhibit deep skepticism towards official accounts of high-profile cases like Jeffrey Epstein's, questioning the transparency and truthfulness of authorities and media.

• Critique of Media Sensationalism: Anna and Dasha argue that media sensationalism distorts public perception of legal cases, turning them into platforms for conspiracy theories and opportunistic lawsuits.

• Challenges with Third-Party Politics: The discussion on Elon Musk's attempt to establish a third political party highlights the difficulties in disrupting the entrenched two-party system, emphasizing Musk's lack of political expertise.

• Sexual Consent and Safety: The hosts engage in a provocative debate about the safety and consensuality of practices like choking during sex, juxtaposing them with other sexual risks and societal norms.

• Identity Exploitation in Admissions: A critical examination of how racial and ethnic identities are manipulated within institutional frameworks, particularly in college admissions, underscores the complexities of identity politics.

• Modern Relationship Dynamics: Reflections on the interplay between desire, consent, and societal expectations in intimate relationships, advocating for personal responsibility and honest communication.

Notable Quotes

• Dasha (04:22): "I haven't really been following it. I know we're not going to get the truth."
• Anna (10:22): "The truth is somewhere in the middle."
• Alice (19:44): "The Epstein files are a kind of theodicy... people are accusing..."
• Dasha (26:31): "But he was like 80. Diddy. That's his."
• Dasha (52:18): "He is starting a third party, the America Party..."
• Anna (84:10): "There's no safe way to do it."
• Dasha (89:05): "There's nothing wrong with that."
• Anna (68:50): "He was checking the African American box to signal high IQ."
• Dasha (100:16): "You have to take responsibility for what you want."
• Anna (104:08): "There's no safe way to have sex."

---

Conclusion

In this episode of Red Scare, Anna Khachiyan and Dasha Nekrasova navigate a complex array of topics ranging from high-profile conspiracy theories and media critiques to deep dives into sexual consent and identity politics. Their candid and often provocative discussions challenge conventional narratives and encourage listeners to question established systems and societal norms.

For more engaging cultural commentary, support Red Scare on Patreon here and follow the hosts on Twitter: @annakhachiyan and @nobody_stop_me.

Transcript

[Dasha]

All good. We're back. Hey, how was your fourth of July?

[Anna]

It was fun.

[Dasha]

For sure.

[Anna]

How was yours?

[Dasha]

It was nice. I was drunk.

[Anna]

Yeah. I got drunk. I went to the bath.

[Dasha]

So really empty. Because everyone's kind of on a fun in the sun.

[Anna]

Yeah. But trying to see fireworks.

[Dasha]

But we went in the daytime.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

And we took a gorgeous golden hour Uber ride across the bridge.

[Anna]

That's nice.

[Dasha]

Only downside was a female driver. So I was a little anxious.

[Anna]

Yeah. It do be like that.

[Dasha]

They're just not as good at driving cars.

[Anna]

I don't know if.

[Dasha]

Because I'm like, what if she gets her period right now? What if she swerves into traffic? She's about to enter her luteal phase.

[Anna]

Steps on the gas, flips the car. Two young lives extinguished.

[Dasha]

I know. People are like, ooh, edgy. And it's like, I'm kidding. Sort of.

[Anna]

Sort of.

[Dasha]

Yeah. I am like, do would drop a nuke if I was a world leader.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

Like right before my period, I'd be like this. You know what? I'm going to prove a little point.

[Anna]

I'm feeling emotional.

[Dasha]

And then I would be like, oh, my God, I started my period. I made a horrible mistake. Please tell the ayatollah I am very sorry.

[Anna]

It's like whenever you're taking a flight and you expect the. The voice of the nice white Jared Taylor ass sounding man.

[Dasha]

Oh, yeah. Come on and say, hey, we're in fresh smooth.

[Anna]

This is your lady speaking and a woman who sounds like Jodie Foster because they're usually like butch lesbians. I did once have a female pilot and it was by far the worst turbulence I've ever experienced in my life. I was gripping the seat.

[Dasha]

Hey.

[Anna]

Trying to go to sleep. Dog in the burning building. This is fine.

[Dasha]

It's how it could be a coincidence. I haven't had enough experience. Experience with female.

[Anna]

Yeah. See, I don't have a big enough sample size to determine one way or another, but I'm just saying it's telling. Yeah.

[Dasha]

No client list.

[Anna]

No client list.

[Dasha]

Jeffrey Epstein did commit suicide.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

But was guilty of no crimes. They didn't have anything on him.

[Anna]

Nope.

[Dasha]

But he did commit suicide.

[Anna]

Mystery solved.

[Dasha]

And. And G is in jail.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

What for Nothing.

[Anna]

How long is she in jail for it?

[Dasha]

20 years.

[Anna]

Okay.

[Dasha]

But I wasn't. I. Obviously I made the. Honestly very good time to rewatch a little movie called the Scary of Six Queen, which I feel like was almost a prophetic vision of how fruitless all this would be and how everyone would Get.

[Anna]

Yes, exactly.

[Dasha]

But people always ask me like after obviously making the movie about Jeffrey Epstein like what do I think about the Glenn case when it was in the news. And the thing is I feel like I really exercised.

[Anna]

Yes.

[Dasha]

What was interesting to me about the Jeffrey Epstein stuff. So I haven't really been following it.

[Anna]

Right.

[Dasha]

And don't care that much because I know we're not going to get the truth even though Pam Bondi.

[Anna]

Oh yeah. So what happened? Hold on, I'm going to pull up my notes. I guess they were threatening or like teasing the release of the Epstein client list for months and then on Monday there was a DOJ memo that concluded that actually he killed himself and no such list exists. People are mad at Pam Bondi because.

[Dasha]

She kind of over promised she's not the only one. Cuz everyone's been doing. And Elon's doing it now which is so telling of his retardation. It's like that's been a big kind of talking point on left and right.

[Anna]

Yes.

[Dasha]

Of accusing people comes out. What are you on the client list?

[Anna]

Yes.

[Dasha]

What are you some kind of elite ped. I saw someone said Michael Tracy's on. I'm like Michael Tracy is not an elite pedophile.

[Anna]

Michael Tracy's on the list. That's why he's been counter signaling the Epstein truthers because he desperately doesn't want.

[Dasha]

It to come out that he upper echelons of power.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

Drinking Gatorade out of the satanic orgy and he's completely compromised. That's obviously what's going on.

[Anna]

This is from cnn. Bondi's own claim made during a Fox News interview in February that she had a so called Epstein client list on her desk and intended to release it exacerbated the perception that she underd delivered. No such list exists. The Justice Department concluded in the memo released on Monday. The DOJ memo contradicted many of the conspiracy theories pulsating on the right surrounding Epstein including that he was murdered and that authorities were keeping secret a list of high profile clients possibly involved in wrongdoing. Then she sort of backpedaled and said I did an interview on Fox and it's been getting a lot of attention because I said I was asked a question about the client list and my response was it's sitting on my desk to be reviewed meaning the file along with the JFK MLK files as well. That's what I meant by that she told reporters. So she's saying that she just had like a full like a manila Folder.

[Dasha]

And it's in it.

[Anna]

It said that she was going to review.

[Dasha]

It was empty.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

There was a mail folder and it.

[Anna]

Said, give up your inquiries, which are useless. I was surprised by, by how many people like didn't get the joke. I saw it like, whatever. Two in the morning was like, yeah, yeah.

[Dasha]

I was like, it's not, it's not even. It's barely a joke. It's like a pretty obvious reference. I almost was like, I bet I'm like gonna be like the 50th person to say this.

[Anna]

Dasha's fed posting. She's caping for Israel.

[Dasha]

She's on the obscene list. That's why she's telling us to give up our inquiries, which are completely useless. Consider these words.

[Anna]

Yeah. A lot of like influencers like Cerno and Poso.

[Dasha]

Well, Cerno was one of the ones they gave the. Remember when they gave the Epstein files out and they also were like retracted and already public. And they gave the binders to all the. To like Cernovich. And they held them up. Yeah, they're a little laminated. Slow. The spread ass piece of paper and was laminated that we were all looking at.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

Get real.

[Anna]

Poso was like, we demand answers. It really took everything in me to not start with him. I actually don't want answers. I don't care. Epstein's dead.

[Dasha]

I mean, I would like, some major.

[Anna]

Accuser is dead, his main accomplices in jail. Let it go. I don't want to like, I don't want to be too flippant and say like, move along. Nothing to see her. Because I actually don't believe that's true. And I think that there is more to the story that deeply shady and suspicious.

[Dasha]

It's a massive cover up. He was obviously a Mossad agent.

[Anna]

I mean, he. Okay. He obviously had intelligence ties. That's like a statistical likelihood. You don't like just pop up out of nowhere as like a private school teacher with like millions of dollars in the bank and all these high profile connections and a beautiful townhouse on the ues. Super union. Degree was obviously Robert Maxwell.

[Dasha]

Obviously.

[Anna]

It's. It's hard for me to believe that there's nothing there. Especially based on the fact that all the kind of official intelligence statements are like, no, nothing to see here.

[Dasha]

Well, he also got that sweetheart deal.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

Back in the day. I got a. I'm sorry, but it's so implausible that he killed himself. And people who are like, well, he was a. He had a nice life and he was probably really sad about being in jail. It's like, when your life is nice, you don't expect. You expect things to continue to work out for you.

[Anna]

That is true.

[Dasha]

I don't think he was, like, hopelessly depressed. I think, if anything, he might have auto erotically asphyxiated himself, which someone told me recently, and I was like, maybe plausible, because he obviously was obsessed with busting.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

He was, like, getting, like, three hand jobs a day. That's why he had so many such a network of. I'll also say, like, he was a total sex crudle.

[Anna]

Yes, he was, but. Okay.

[Dasha]

But I think there's a lot of.

[Anna]

Parallels between his case and the Diddy case, where basically the justice system was unable to prove any wrongdoing beyond him.

[Dasha]

Well, in Epstein's case, third party. There's a lot they're not telling us.

[Anna]

Yes. And with Diddy, I'm sure, too, but with. But Gillen was convicted of trafficking prostitutes to Epstein specifically, not to any third parties. Correct. Just fact checking here. And the other thing that I will say that you're not gonna like is that it's not outside the realm of possibility that he killed himself. I think it's unlikely, but it's. It's not zero. And you have to grant that.

[Dasha]

And I. I think they know what they're doing with the security camera footage with the minute missing.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

They know. They're like. They're pressing people's buttons.

[Anna]

Yeah. Well, yeah. And so was Bondi, by the way. They were like.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Teasing, creating drama, build up, edging a little. They know what they're doing. I think that, like, my hunch is that it's. The truth is somewhere in the middle. And I don't think he was exactly killed, but I don't think he exactly killed himself. I feel like it's like Pentangeli and the Godfather where he was pressured to do that.

[Dasha]

They made him.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

It was the only thing he could.

[Anna]

Do because I do think they facilitated it. I doubt somebody actually went in there and, like, offed him, but who knows?

[Dasha]

Who knows? It doesn't really matter. That's. It's like. I would like some answers, but it's not. I've made peace long ago.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

With that. There just was, like. And I'm not even on, like, some pedo cabal tip. Yeah.

[Anna]

That's where I start to.

[Dasha]

But there is just, like, evil in the world.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

There's. There's power and evil, and, like, there are things that, you know are completely useless that you like Can't. It's. What was that? Sovietism. That's like they're lying. You know they're lying. They know you know that.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

You know they're lying.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

And it doesn't. It's like that kind of like nihilistics info spiral.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

And it ultimately doesn't matter.

[Anna]

Yeah. There's not worth like a good CHP tweet. The Epstein files are a kind of theodicy, a theory about why there is evil in the world. In primitive cultures, they think people are good and that bad actions are the result of possession by spirits. This belief is now prevalent on Twitter. And they call the spirit Israel. A lot of people, yeah. Were accusing me of like. Yeah, like fed posting, caping for Israel. Whatever. People will claim that it's political, that my boss Peter Thiel is paying me. I can't even spread a certain line. But I just like have like zero patience for when people like use speculation and gossip and hearsay as like a displacement activity for their dissatisfaction and boredom over their personal lives, their feelings of powerlessness and impotence in their personal lives. And.

[Dasha]

And it.

[Anna]

When it becomes like an all consuming obsession, like QAnon type shit. I just find that kind of morally dishonest and bankrupt.

[Dasha]

I think it's not dishonest. I think it's sick. I think like people do feel so molested. They feel like they've been passed around a elite circle jerk.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

Metaphysically. They feel so bad in their lives that they. Yeah. The only way they can make sense of it.

[Anna]

But it's funny how the left and the right this like handshake meme over elite pedophile cabal. When I hear that phrase like my brain just shuts down.

[Dasha]

It's just because pedophilia obviously is so. It's like the most evil thing people can think of.

[Anna]

Yeah. It's like the final taboo and which.

[Dasha]

It definitely, it's up there super evil.

[Anna]

Also like let's be real.

[Dasha]

This isn't a.

[Anna]

As it stands now, Jeffrey Epstein was an epheba file, not a pedophile. There is scant evidence that he molested anyone who was prepubertal. There were rumblings that there were girls as young as 12 over at his compound. Whatever. I think if that information ever comes to light, I will revise my opinion. I'm not saying what he did was, you know, acceptable by any means.

[Dasha]

Like adrenochrome harvesting little kids.

[Anna]

Yeah, it's.

[Dasha]

It's pretty model pretty young girls who were of a. Many of them of A tender age. I. No one personally.

[Anna]

Right.

[Dasha]

You know, it's super damaging to get.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

Molested.

[Anna]

I'm not like at all like condoning his personal.

[Dasha]

I know we're just. You. How you gotta. Hey. Someone's got to say. Say it.

[Anna]

But when I. When I.

[Dasha]

But it's a fibophilia and some of the girls were. Yeah. Russian prostitutes who were having a. Probably a good time.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

And who were like ambitious and like a little more resilient to sexual trauma.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

But not everyone is like that.

[Anna]

Not everyone. There is a wide gamut of different type of.

[Dasha]

But they were all poor. Is the thing is G. Maxwell knew.

[Anna]

What they were doing. Some of them thought they knew what they were doing.

[Dasha]

They were all hard up. And poor people shouldn't be sex slaves for rich people.

[Anna]

Yes.

[Dasha]

That's really what is so to me like wrong about it isn't like necessarily the age or like how traumatic.

[Anna]

I don't.

[Dasha]

I was or wasn't.

[Anna]

All I can say is that I. The stuff I'm interested in, we're never really going to get answers for and it's really just pointless and counterproductive to spin your wheels about it. No, I'm not interested in the sex crime stuff.

[Dasha]

Not at all.

[Anna]

Total distract, like salacious tabloid drama. I don't really care about the client list, which is neither here nor there and doesn't prove anything because how many well famous, high profile, well connected people we have the block. Yeah.

[Dasha]

And the flight logs.

[Anna]

Yes.

[Dasha]

So they want the client list refers to people who actually like that. He had a written list of everyone who procured an underage prostitute from him. Obviously they're not going to release that.

[Anna]

What I am interested in is the nature and extent of his intelligence ties, the behind the scenes stuff that we're never going to learn about the truth again is probably somewhere in the middle between him being like a high level blackmailer of the elite pedophile cabal and a relatively harmless party boy with an appetite for underage women.

[Dasha]

Why'd they kill him? That's what I want to know is what.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

What went wrong. Yeah.

[Anna]

I mean, why'd they arrest him?

[Dasha]

Why'd they kill him?

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

What's going on?

[Anna]

Yeah. And why did they arrest him then? When.

[Dasha]

When he had been arrested prior.

[Anna]

Yeah. In 2008 or whatever. Like I, I'd been aware of, had known of Jeffrey Epstein for at least a decade before that because there were periodic stories in the media about, you know, Bill Clinton and Alan Dershowitz's shadowy playboy. Financier friend, West Bestern had a. Had a good take. I'm gonna try to pull it up.

[Dasha]

I think for people. And I was, though maybe I was gonna say I was naive because it was pre. Covered.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

But I was like, I said this in my movie where I was like, this is a paradigm shift.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

And in some ways it was. But the fact that it's been such a consistent, like we're going to be hearing about this, they're going to keep like breadcrumbing us with bullshit.

[Anna]

Well, the thing is like, yeah, it's.

[Dasha]

Saying like we're going to release some information and then they won't release any information.

[Anna]

My big issue with the Epstein saga is that it kind of devolves into this true crime, free for all and just overall like torpedoes craters the overall level, like intellectual level of the discourse because everyone wants to get in on it. Here's the, the take. It's kind of long. I'm going to skim it. He talks about how both interpretations of his life were almost totally wrong. The initial story was that Epstein was a blackmailer, probably Mossad, luring elites into sexually compromising situations and then controlling them with proof of their crimes. A counternarrative then emerged, painting him as a perverted, vaguely harmless party guy who was guilty of some statutory crimes, or maybe a pedophile, but certainly not a spy or intelligence asset of any significance. Simple logic as well as cursory familiarity with the blackmail will tell you the initial story is false. The issue with blackmailing hostile assets is that they hate you and tell their friends. It's virtually impossible for the same blackmailer to work their way through an entire political circle because people realize what's going on and shut them out. The facts of Epstein's life, on the other hand, tell us that the second story is equally false. Epstein has a long history of working with both US and foreign intelligence. He was, to give one example, the main money launderer for Adnan Khashoggi's work on, for the CAA on Iran Contra. As far as I can tell, Epstein functioned as a middleman, a money launderer and deal maker who connected intelligence, Finance and the Israeli mob, business leaders and so on, so that various governments did not have to get formally involved in certain crimes. Having sex parties, women around, maybe many teens would certainly help in making and maintaining these connections. The reason for the COVID up then is obvious. Tons of rich and powerful people, foreign governments and so on, would be implicated if the CIA, not the FBI files on Epstein were released. Maybe There would be some sexually embarrassing stuff, but far more likely is a variety of financial crimes would be exposed, threatening both the personal wealth of rich insiders as well as illicit money networks intel agencies used to finance their black ops.

[Dasha]

It's.

[Anna]

I agree with that. Take more or less. That's probably the correct one.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

It's.

[Dasha]

What. It's not like in. If it's not a black male fan factory.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

You know, it's. It is a conspiracy in the traditional sense. It's a group of people who have.

[Anna]

Who are conspiring to protect their interests, to protect their necks.

[Dasha]

It's.

[Anna]

And the thing is, like, completely. I will grant that Epstein was some sort of spy. The thing with being a spy, though, is everybody wants to think that it's so like, sexy and cool and glamorous, but it's actually kind of like a loser move in the sense that you're always working for the man and you're meddling in the affairs of other people. Yeah.

[Dasha]

You can't be real.

[Anna]

Yeah, it's, you know, exhausting, tedious.

[Dasha]

That's why you got to jack off every.

[Anna]

Yeah. Every three hours with an underage prostitute.

[Dasha]

That's why you have to keep busting.

[Anna]

Yeah. Well, people do bus. To relieve stress. Yeah.

[Dasha]

He's probably under a tremendous amount of stress.

[Anna]

And of course, Michael Tracy doing the Lord's work. Angel counter signaling angel every Epstein, truth or narrative. He had that Virginia Jeffrey Long.

[Dasha]

That's a really tough position to take. That's brave of him.

[Anna]

It is. I wanna. I wanted.

[Dasha]

Especially since she recently passed.

[Anna]

Yeah. I mean, I. I was sort of crazy.

[Dasha]

Her body's not even cold.

[Anna]

I know, I know. I was sort of getting at that on prior podcasts.

[Dasha]

But she's unwell and.

[Anna]

Yeah, I mean, I. She's obviously classic case of bpd.

[Dasha]

Well, that's why she made herself the victim. Yeah, but a lot of the victims also had bpd, which is a symptom of getting molested. Anna. Well, of course.

[Anna]

Yeah. I. Again, when I say that she's a BPD queen, that is not a judgment, it's just merely an observation. She's a person who, for whatever mixture of like genetics and trauma, came to relate to the world in this way.

[Dasha]

Because she got molested at a tender age.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

She had sex with Prince Andrew.

[Anna]

I'm not going to read the whole tweet, but. Because it's super long. But.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

But I. Like. I'll read the last paragraph. Epstein himself was clearly a dirtbag and openly confessed to pathological obsession with procuring teenage girls for himself. But the grander web of creepy conspiratorial intrigue that's enveloped this case and turned it into a weird, tantalizing, unfalsifiable mythology that won't go away is just an extension of the unhinged, fabulous and pioneered by the original accuser, Virginia Guthrey.

[Dasha]

That's not true. Guy contributed. But it's a fabilistic and enduring. Because we won't ever know the truth. They won't. They won't even give us anything that resemble. It's such a shitty cover.

[Anna]

Yeah. It's like.

[Dasha]

That's what was so insulting about it to me when it happened. Because, like, it's like the CIA is slapping me in the face.

[Anna]

Yes.

[Dasha]

I was like, surely people will be outraged about this.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

And they kind of weren't. And then that's how I was having some problems with my medication.

[Anna]

Yeah. But I think, like, as. As a water sign, you have a much higher tolerance for, like, symbolism, conspiracy, the occult and so on. As an earth sign, I have zero tolerance for anything that's, like, fabulous or unfalsifiable because I. I like to only deal with the information that's in front of me at the moment. I'm very literal and unironic in that way. And I. I tend to think that, again, people's, like, obsession with fixation on things they cannot prove and we'll never know the answers to our. Yeah. Like a surrogate activity. Displacement activity for.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Personal feelings of, like, lack of control or lack of purpose or lack of meaning.

[Dasha]

Best response that one ought to have to the obscene sub, I think is to get right with God and focus on your skills.

[Anna]

Totally.

[Dasha]

You know, try and protect your family from getting by A pedophile.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

And just. And being, like, totally out for you. And you're exploited by. I mean, it is like an elite clout, like micro class. Like, try not to get. That's why Kubrick lived in London. That's why Eyes Watch takes place there. Because he thought he saw Hollywood and, you know, was. Had a neurosis due to.

[Anna]

But being a Jewish genius.

[Dasha]

But he saw what power was and that no one should ever try and have it. And the people who had it were evil.

[Anna]

But the scary thing about power is that it's the most powerful when it's, like, diffuse and decentralized. There is no. There's not necessarily a specific elite pedophile cabal that's, like, directly conspiring, including against you. This is sort of like Curtis Yarvin's point, in one way or another about the cathedral and these decentralized messaging networks that somehow magically all land on this dogma of wokeness.

[Dasha]

Right.

[Anna]

Like, I don't think they're like on their phones, like texting each other.

[Dasha]

It's not. They're on a group chat. Yeah, they probably are. It's not like tight, but it's. Yeah. It's not tidy. Top down. Just like, you know, this is the most powerful guy. This is the second most powerful guy.

[Anna]

Want. People want that to be the case. Both people on the left and on the right really want that to be the case because it would solve a lot of their problems.

[Dasha]

Yeah. Or just. Yeah. Like you said, alleviate some psychic pressure.

[Anna]

Yeah. They bring them psychic relief. Absolve them of direct responsibility in their own lives and business.

[Dasha]

I'm. Yeah. I'm not suffering because I'm like. I totally like unvirtuous person who stands for nothing.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

But because I. The elites are oppressing me.

[Anna]

Yes, exactly. Yeah. And the other thing he points out that I think is absolutely true. In both the Epstein and the Diddy case and the Weinstein case, any high profile sex crime trial, these things become cash cows because there are criminal charges that may or may not be convicted or whatever. Well, yeah, but then this generates a cascade of civil cases of various opportunists trying to extract money from the cash cow.

[Dasha]

I think he has like 66 civil cases.

[Anna]

Yeah. And there's. Yeah. And I think.

[Dasha]

But he was like 80. Diddy. That's his.

[Anna]

Oh, yeah. Okay.

[Dasha]

Because Diddy was acquitted of sex trafficking and racketeering.

[Anna]

Yeah. The RICO and the trafficking charges would have. Which would have had. They were made sentence of up to life in prison. And now he was. He was found guilty on two counts of prostitution, which I think the max sentence for that is 20 years, but he's probably gonna end up serving like 20 months to five years if that.

[Dasha]

And you know what he had with him in court?

[Anna]

Huh?

[Dasha]

You know what he had?

[Anna]

What's that?

[Dasha]

A copy of the Power of Positive Thinking.

[Anna]

Did he.

[Dasha]

When they announced his acquittal, he collapsed to the floor. He get prayer hands and that. He had.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

The power of positive thinking, which a lot of people would be better off if they read. Honestly, people think they're smart to read.

[Anna]

A fucking book on the pod since everyone's buzzing about.

[Dasha]

I'm talking about it and keep sending the PDF to people and no one opens. It's hard to review because it's. I mean, we reviewed The Marilyn Williamson?

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

That changed my life.

[Anna]

I don't remember it, but I remember reading it on the beach and taking, like, a bikini pic with it.

[Dasha]

It helped me unlock the power of praying, which was valuable to me during a manic episode during which I made the scary of 61st Street. So, honestly, if you want to know the real truth about the emotional truth about the Jeffrey Epstein, you should watch the scary of 61st on shudder or Amazon prime in good faith.

[Anna]

You should keep track of whether there's an uptick and. Oh, you can't.

[Dasha]

I don't have access to that. I mean, I guess I'll get, like, quarterly statement or whatever that says, but I'm curious.

[Anna]

I bet. I bet there will be, like, a rise in traffic for that movie.

[Dasha]

I doubt it. Because people don't want to know the truth, which is that we're powerless. They want to give them an illusion of having something to, like, fixate on.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

Like elites.

[Anna]

Yeah. I mean, I don't know. The Diddy thing, too, do you think?

[Dasha]

The Diddy thing. It seems like they overcharged him.

[Anna]

Yes.

[Dasha]

It was a losering battle.

[Anna]

Well, because I think people can anticipate that they can extract some cash for themselves or various, like, DAs and prosecutors want to raise their star in the legal community. There are a lot of impure motives for bringing these, like, blockbuster trials to court.

[Dasha]

Because black people were so insulated from the MeToo movement for so long.

[Anna]

Yeah, well, not Cosby.

[Dasha]

Not Cosby. But that really took a really, like, glossy, like, 80 women drugged and raped. It was, like, really bad.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

It wasn't like. I mean, the Diddy stuff is bad, but it's more like inter relational and like, party boy stuff, I guess.

[Anna]

Getting my ashtray. Yeah, I mean, I don't like. I don't know. It's like, I'm just gonna read other people's tweets today because I don't feel like.

[Dasha]

Just put them in your own words.

[Anna]

Like, I'm like, human Grok. No, I just. I don't really. I haven't been on Twitter lately, so.

[Dasha]

I tried to do what Maddie suggested. I was like, I did it. I was like, come up with a critique of this in the voice of Dasha, of Dash Eats or whatever. And it was like, like, yo, what's up? Like, it was like. So I was like, that's what I. Yo, yo, yo. I was like, what the. What up? I was like, I don't talk like that. And then I did. Anacaching was all like, area diet.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

I was like, but looks bad. It's always bad. I try and use it to generate podcast titles and I have to be like, make it dumber and more surprise it. But it's really. It's like you have to have, like, create human creed.

[Anna]

Like you said, it can't channel the subconscious.

[Dasha]

You can't. And that's where everything good comes from anyway. In one water sign.

[Anna]

Yeah. No, but Adam Ler made a good point that. That the prosecutors had no evidence that he was running any sort of, like, organized crime or trafficking ring and. Or that he did anything beyond hiring hookers for himself. And, like, I agree that he's, like, also a loathsome and scummy guy. Never liked his music, by the way. Feel vindicated by. But that doesn't mean that the legal profession doesn't have to make a case and prove certain things in the court of law. And he says this is exactly what they did with both Cosby and Weinstein, where the prosecutors banked on widely held cultural and media assumptions about the defendant's guilt. And without actually making a case. Cosby and Harvey, however, got tried in the middle of the MeToo era, which, for a brief period, allowed the prosecutors to bypass typical legal norms. Now that that moment has ended, prosecutors have to do real lawyer work again. As disappointed as some might be to see Diddy walk, people committed to freedom and American rights should see this as a victory. That we can't be thrown in prison merely because the media says we should be. Yeah. I mean, that's like a hundo pe.

[Dasha]

I mean, some justice needs to be served.

[Anna]

Yeah. But, you know, I hate.

[Dasha]

It's not for me to revise the legal system to make, like, some statues of limitations different. Like.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

And I'm not about to do the. You know, I.

[Anna]

Well, this was all tried. Correct me if I'm wrong. Under a new piece of legislation in New York State that I think extended the statute of limitations. We discussed it when the. Yeah. When this case first came to light. So they're coming up with, like, random, arbitrary pieces of legislation to justify the prosecution of random celebrity figures who, like.

[Dasha]

We know are freaky deaky.

[Anna]

Yeah. For. For, like, a viral acclaim, essentially.

[Dasha]

Kangaroo court.

[Anna]

Yeah. It's. No, it's, like, really shocking and disturbing and you have to, like, be able to hold two mutually exclusive thoughts in your mind at the same time, which is that, like, yes, most likely these people are really shitty and bad and guilty of all sorts of abuses against other human beings, which they're being punished for. Yeah. Even if process is the punishment.

[Dasha]

Exactly.

[Anna]

But also you have to be able to prove in the court of law, beyond a reasonable doubt or whatever, that these abuses are criminal in nature. And obviously everybody saw like the hotel elevator.

[Dasha]

Yeah, well, the Diddy tape. Once again, the New York Post, which.

[Anna]

Was not on trial, by the way.

[Dasha]

The New York Post said it best.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

The headline was Notorious Pig and it said Diddy acquitted, but he's still a baby oil obsessed woman beater.

[Anna]

Yeah, so true.

[Dasha]

He's a sick five and I'm glad he's suffering.

[Anna]

Sure.

[Dasha]

But maybe the power of positive thinking. Well, the point isn't like it'll be his Quran, these guys.

[Anna]

It's to defend your average person.

[Dasha]

Well, you're.

[Anna]

By defending the principle of the matter.

[Dasha]

Your average person isn't going to be vulnerable to a show trial.

[Anna]

Yeah, but once you set the precedent, I understand. There's also like, you know, it's a theoretical argument.

[Dasha]

It's not justice. Just. Yeah.

[Anna]

Isn't one of Diddy's sons named justice or Justin? Never mind.

[Dasha]

Just sweet.

[Anna]

Whatever. And I just, I hate the.

[Dasha]

I was not really intrigued. Interested in the Diddy trial?

[Anna]

No. Because he's black and you're the real racist.

[Dasha]

Yeah, well, yeah, I don't care about their culture. I was like, oh, sounds like some black community.

[Anna]

I assume like freaky deaky boofs are doing freaky deaky behind closed doors.

[Dasha]

My trainer was really upset about it because a lot of, you know, rappers that he thought wouldn't do gay stuff. My trainer is black, by the way. But he was like, no, not, you know, he was upset about various people who were implicated. Gay stuff. Yeah, he's like, he was like, no, he's like, I thought he was hard.

[Anna]

In retrospect, what was Nicki Minaj thinking marrying that guy? He has such a voice. He's not hard. Yeah, I don't know. I don't think anyone's really seriously invested in the. Though I, I guess they were paying people to wear hashtag free Diddy shirts around. Who? Lower New York. Yeah. I don't know. I kept seeing like groups of like young black and brown people wearing these shirts and being like, what the. Like, who put you up to this? It's like when they get the seat pillars for the court cases.

[Dasha]

Well, there is there not kind of like an OJ element to it where.

[Anna]

People are like, they hate to see a black man winning.

[Dasha]

They're like, they're like, this is. They're just trying to keep a black man down.

[Anna]

I didn't really Get OJ Race war vibes from this. I think Diddy is sort of unanimously unpopular with people. Nobody likes it.

[Dasha]

Why do they want him freed?

[Anna]

Somalian pirate looking ass.

[Dasha]

I think I probably said this. I must have, but I was in an elevator with him.

[Anna]

Oh, yeah.

[Dasha]

In the Soho House.

[Anna]

How tall is he? Seems like five, nine.

[Dasha]

Yeah, he was. No, he was. I couldn't tell. Maybe six. Six feet or slightly under. And he was with some chicks and he looked nervous.

[Anna]

An ugly. I'm not afraid to say that.

[Dasha]

Yeah, he. I didn't really notice. Notice him. I didn't register him as, like, a stalker.

[Anna]

Yeah. But I just, like. I hate this whole environment, like, me too. Unleashed. Where all these various types of, like, sexual misconduct and abuse are now subject to criminal litigation. It's so toxic and bad because, you know, said it before, and I'll say it again, it devalues the significance of actual serious rape.

[Dasha]

Yeah. And it's become so much about. I mean. Yeah. To say nothing of, like. And thankfully it's diminished now, but, like, just the ruinous potential of, like, basically interpersonal con. Like, yeah. Someone treated you badly.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

And you think that this warrants, like, public outrage.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

That's another human being mistreated. Yeah.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

Or just like. Like, okay.

[Anna]

Public airing.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Like, when people publish their private texts and dms, that's like one of the grossest, most low rent, most ghetto forms of shameful communication.

[Dasha]

No, it, like. Yeah, it breaks a human bond.

[Anna]

Yeah. It breaks the spirit to see that. Like, what are you doing, bro? So, yeah, no, the. This. The Diddy case feels particularly rotten because I hate him and find him to be disgusting. But on the other hand, I'm glad that he wasn't convicted of the major charges, which were, like, trumped up and bogus.

[Dasha]

I think he's being punished. He'll get convicted of something and this whole thing is like a humiliation ritual. And he'll have to deal with tons of civil suits. And the process really kind of is the fun. It really does. Sometimes it's, like, adequate even if he.

[Anna]

Should release an album called Black Epstein.

[Dasha]

Cigarettes.

[Anna]

Oh, yeah.

[Dasha]

Whatever. I like your Aritzia fake Prada bag.

[Anna]

I was buying those. I have it in two colors. Black and taupe. Get a lot of compliments.

[Dasha]

That's a really good. It's a. Yeah, it fits a lot of. It's nice. I got this. I got this s At the Essence sale.

[Anna]

What is that?

[Dasha]

It's cute. It's some, like, rando brand.

[Anna]

Oh, it looks like Prada.

[Dasha]

Yeah. It was like, cheap.

[Anna]

Dash is holding up a nylon tote with leather trimming.

[Dasha]

But it's like a nice laptop. My laptop. When I go to the office, which I haven't even been doing, I just like the construct. I just put. Listen to white noise all day. That's why I'm like this. That's why my autism is getting worse.

[Anna]

Yeah. Who, like, who even brought the original charges against Diddy?

[Dasha]

Cassie.

[Anna]

Cassie, maybe. I don't know.

[Dasha]

I have no idea.

[Anna]

There was some woman called, like, Amber Lampros that I was reading about on USA Today who accused him of, like, a variety of rapes and sexual assaults. Like, 90, 95, 98, 99, 2000. I think only the last one made it into the current litigation. This was like a civil case. And she continued to have, like, a consensual sexual relationship with him the entire.

[Dasha]

Time after he raped her 2,000 times.

[Anna]

Yeah, like, he raped you at least four times, and you're still seeing this. Like, come on.

[Dasha]

I mean.

[Anna]

And I really resent so Right about me too.

[Dasha]

It's. Come on.

[Anna]

I know. It's crazy. And I resent, like, during.

[Dasha]

That's just our podcast now that we.

[Anna]

Talk about how we were right, how we were vindicated on. Me too. But, like, the. The whole thing that happened with Harvey Weinstein, where during the trial, they tried to make it seem as if all of these different perimenopausal actresses were, like, wet behind the ears. Naomi Watts and Mulholland Drive, Midwestern farm girls who came to Hollywood to, like, live the dream and were horribly disappointed. It's like you knew what you were doing. You were effectively a prostitute. Often literally a prostitute. Like you were prostituting, escorting in between taking auditions, going on the casting couch.

[Dasha]

Don't read me like this. Okay? I know, but that was the arrangement. That's when the Epstein stuff happened. I was like. I was like, that was wrong. I was. I was like. I thought we were leveraging our sexuality to get ahead in this industry.

[Anna]

I don't.

[Dasha]

Again, I thought we all had.

[Anna]

I'm not being morally judgmental.

[Dasha]

That's why it was like an open secret that people joked about at the Oscars that it was like, haha, like a reducer and to get advantages in.

[Anna]

Your career, sex to get the role, blah, blah.

[Dasha]

Like, not that I ever did that outright, but, like, I was, you know, I definitely was, like, operating in the understanding that my sexuality would get me ahead.

[Anna]

But you go into, like, the Russian bath soaking pool with, like, Anna. Wait, you told the story yourself?

[Dasha]

Yeah, it Wasn't even Russian bath. It was like, whatever.

[Anna]

But we, like, okay, we've all.

[Dasha]

We're alone in there. I was frozen. Okay, Anna. I was frozen. And I really. I mean, I was like, I didn't know what to do.

[Anna]

But you know my feeling about it, like, it all's well that ends well. If you behave that way, you may reap the rewards. If you know how to be discreet, like, keep your mouth shut, follow the rules, and at some point, those opportunities are going to flatline because you're, like, simply too old, your looks are fading, whatever, and you just have to, like, accept responsibility.

[Dasha]

I'm like, you can't, like, retroactively punish Harvey Weinstein.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

Harvey Weinstein mistreated a lot of people.

[Anna]

He did. Yeah.

[Dasha]

He's an. And he was pushy and rapey at the very least. And so he was punished for that as well.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

And his business used to be profitable, which is the real crime.

[Anna]

The one. The one thing that really still grinds my gears about the Weinstein case, other than the fact that, like, also, yeah, he's a scummy and loathsome individual, but who clearly should not be spending the rest of his life. That's ridiculous.

[Dasha]

He, like, got so. They, like, showed pictures of his little weird dick, his back knees.

[Anna]

He actually looks better than ever now that he's in jail.

[Dasha]

Now that he's.

[Anna]

Yeah, but, like.

[Dasha]

But yeah, he was thoroughly humiliated.

[Anna]

That, like, annoying right wing take that's, like. It's like a meme now about how, like, after Harvey got got, the quality of actress hotness started going down. That's not exactly what happened because at that point, by the time that started happening, Harvey was already, like, on the outs as a major producer. And, well, just. Yeah, I just really hate that take because it's so, like, canned and cliched. And the real problem with the Harvey story is that he's unfairly imprisoned over a kangaroo court. I don't care about. I do. I mean, I do. I. I do.

[Dasha]

And because it's. It was the death of, like, the power producer.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

You know, and then what's his name? The guy who did, like, uncut gems. He got mean to Scott Rubin. Scott Rubin got mean to. Yeah, because he didn't sexually abuse anybody.

[Anna]

He, like, threw a phone at an intern's head.

[Dasha]

They did that to Ellen DeGeneres. So then they started just, like, ruining people who are being mean. He yelled at somebody and it's like, okay, some people are abusive, but it's because they're like, Ruthless. And that's how they like got to the top. And that's how we, like had. Not that it was like the best era of cinema, but at least it was nice. You got to go to the movie. There was like a movie with people who had real star power that you wanted to see.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

And that was viable because of like producers who were powerful because they said, let's get a sexy chick in this. They knew what people want. You know, they like. They weren't creatives, they were managers.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

But they managed the film industry pretty well.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

And it's fallen into shambles post covet, post strike. The actresses are too ugly now because.

[Anna]

They was running that like Monarch CEOs versus designed by committee. I mean, yeah, I agree. Like, objectively speaking, but yeah, he shouldn't.

[Dasha]

Be dying in jail.

[Anna]

Are less hot now. It's true.

[Dasha]

Yeah. But everyone's just less skillful.

[Anna]

Yeah. And there's, there's just like more of them. And the entertainment industry is in the pits.

[Dasha]

You know what I saw that I liked was 28 years later.

[Anna]

Oh, yeah? How was that?

[Dasha]

Really good, actually. Kind of like modern and fun.

[Anna]

I can't wait to show the baby. 28 days later. I like how like there's like a trilogy now. It's 28 days, 28 weeks, 28 years. Yeah. They can just keep going with this forever.

[Dasha]

And it has.

[Anna]

28 decades later.

[Dasha]

It has like Mancunian.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

Charm and kind of an isolationist, you know, it's kind of about like an ethno state fighting off like hordes of like super violent predators.

[Anna]

Third world zombies.

[Dasha]

It did. I was like, I'm like, this is feel is feeling allegorical, but maybe I'm reading into it.

[Anna]

I mean, the original, the, the original one made such a big impact on me. I loved it. Killian Murphy. So hot. So hot. Yeah. That's amazing movie. It's one of the few movies that's actually scary.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Like, I still get nightmares about that.

[Dasha]

Movie 28 years later. Wasn't super scary.

[Anna]

I like when they have the, the black guy on the chain in the yard and he's like a pit bull.

[Dasha]

The zombies.

[Anna]

I like when the droplet of blood drips into the dad's eye and he's like, get away from me because you know he's. He's gonna turn.

[Dasha]

It's tough times and like that. It's like when the zombies are super fast.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

It's really scary.

[Anna]

Yeah. When he goes into the church and all of them turn around in unison.

[Dasha]

So scary.

[Anna]

I'm just recapping the movie.

[Dasha]

You should see 28 years later.

[Anna]

I will. I'm gonna fire it up with the baby.

[Dasha]

It was.

[Anna]

And traumatize him. Young. A lot of people say I'm a bad mom, but I'm building character.

[Dasha]

Jack Mason, take note. Lots of male frontal nudity. Probably prosthetic. Riley said he had some gay guys complaining about the prosthetics, so maybe it's. It's a popular mode of critique.

[Anna]

I really relate to the 28 days franchise because down here, it is, like, total Zombieland.

[Dasha]

I really like the Purge movies conceptually.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

That, like, all crime is legal for one one day. And then to see It's a documentary.

[Anna]

It's just. Yeah.

[Dasha]

Is it just legal?

[Anna]

There was, you know, that Nas song that was big in, like, 96, 97. If I ruled the World, featuring Lauryn Hill.

[Dasha]

I saw you posting about this, but I haven't heard that song.

[Anna]

It was, like, number one on Hot 97 Forever. And I always found that so funny because, you know, there's a line that's like, imagine smoking weed in the street without cops harassing. And it's like. Well, literally, that came to pass and y' all still ain't happy. You're still doing BLM and complaining.

[Dasha]

They're not even doing BLM.

[Anna]

Not anymore.

[Dasha]

Yeah, BLM's over. It's really. Yeah. I won't. I won't get into it.

[Anna]

No, no, we don't have to get into it. But it's so funny when people complain about getting arrested by cops and it's like, well, you were committing a crime. You didn't have drugs on you. You were packing heat. Like, what do you expect? There's consequences to living above the law.

[Dasha]

I mean, Riley got stopping first in Paris. He was racially profiled.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

And he wasn't doing a crime, so they, you know, he was all good.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

The stop and frisk is scary.

[Anna]

I mean, it is true, by the way, that again, there's a non zero chance that something could go wrong and an innocent person could be caught up in the cross. Terrorist could be, like, wrongfully arrested or wrongfully killed. Shit happens. I'm not saying that.

[Dasha]

Yeah, of course.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

But in hindsight, the fervor.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

That George Floyd unleashed.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

But that people receive this, like, transmission. That there was a epidemic of police brutality.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

And that we had to defund the police.

[Anna]

Is so insane.

[Dasha]

Which is, Steve Saylor loves to point out, really harmed the black community.

[Anna]

It did. Yeah.

[Dasha]

The most by far. And that yeah. That this was like some kind of.

[Anna]

Like, like Foucauldian discipline and punish consequence of again, like elite cabals controlling power systems. And not like the. The much more likely and obvious, like Occam's razor explanation, which is that certain groups, certain demographics tend to commit more crime than others for whatever combination of factors, genetic and environmental, whatever, blah, blah, blah. We're like doing our greatest hits at this point.

[Dasha]

Socioeconomic are a factor. Should we talk about Elon?

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

And he is endless. Crash out.

[Anna]

Yeah, he's.

[Dasha]

Yeah. As I mentioned earlier, he's really harping on the Epstein list. He's been tweeting, like implying Trump's on it, that he can't be trusted. He said, how can people be expected to have faith in Trump if you won't release the Epstein files? And then on the 4th of July, he posted a survey and said Independence Day is the perfect time to ask if you want independence from the two parties. Some would say uniparty system. Should we create the America Party? And at the. I looked today at a screenshot. It. It had 65% people voted yes. But initially I think it was something like 80.

[Anna]

Uhhuh.

[Dasha]

Of Twitter, of X users.

[Anna]

Uhhuh.

[Dasha]

Who are not. It's a cesspool. It's a horrible. This is why all of a. Data sets are highly like, you are completely useless.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

Because you're serving.

[Anna]

I mean, extremely online autists. But also.

[Dasha]

Yeah, just like random ass confused people. Indians, Hindu nationalists.

[Anna]

Okay. The.

[Dasha]

All kinds of like problematic demos are included that are very much not representative of what people really want or that.

[Anna]

Are like reliable narrators and unfit judges.

[Dasha]

You've like designed this site that like ruins people's minds and then you pulled them and they said that you should run for president. So. Yeah. So he's starting a third party, the.

[Anna]

America Party, that's mainly devoted to the cause of deficit reduction, which is such an autistic obsession of his. And you sent me that Ross Doutha article in the nyt. Musk's third party starts with a good idea, which Doutha is so clever. I mean, first of all, he's the best the New York Times has. He is a really good writer, I'll give him that. But he's super clever because he's. He's not saying it's a good idea. He's saying that it contains the kernel of a good idea. And then he's setting it up to like refute it, but in a way that's like hedging his bets. And preserving his plausible deniability.

[Dasha]

Well, can I just. I think never. It's really not the time. Like, I don't think Americans really feel like the two parties are the same. Yeah, it definitely was the case, and people felt that way for a long time. But this is, like, exactly what Bannon talks about when he describes the inherent tension within, like, the techie oligarchy, as he calls them in, like, the actual MAGA constituents, is that people really saw, like, Trump versus, like, Kamala as, like, something that was substantially different and regardless of, like, the political outcomes. Well, like, people are like, you voted for this. It's like, I voted for this timeline.

[Anna]

Yes.

[Dasha]

I was. There were two options, and they were different, and I voted for this one.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

And I don't have to be happy with it.

[Anna]

It's like the fork in the road meme.

[Dasha]

I don't. It's not about it being perfect. I don't. You know? Yeah, it's.

[Anna]

And I don't. I don't really like, the. The Trump administration is taking all the heat for the Epstein list. That seems unfair. Well, he.

[Dasha]

Some people claim they voted for Trump before the transparency around.

[Anna]

Well, that's retarded.

[Dasha]

I know.

[Anna]

I voted for Trump because I was hoping that he would combat unlimited immigration, free trade. That's why I voted for Trump.

[Dasha]

Which remains to be.

[Anna]

Yeah, it remains to be seen. But I didn't vote for Trump owing to any kind of, like, Epstein conspiracy theory shit.

[Dasha]

I voted for Trump out of a. Yeah. Like a personal and emotional conviction, and I'm still happy.

[Anna]

Do you regret your decision?

[Dasha]

No. This is what I vote. I did vote for, like, this timeline. I voted for this course of events, I guess. And I don't even really believe that voting is so meaningful.

[Anna]

No.

[Dasha]

I think it's kind of, like, inevitable.

[Anna]

It's not like your vote is. Any single individual does not count.

[Dasha]

Exactly.

[Anna]

Essentially. And if you want to change anything about the voting system, you have to influence and persuade other people.

[Dasha]

But it also doesn't mean, like, a. It's like strength, endorsement of everything that a political candidate does.

[Anna]

Yeah. Some guy was like, anna, you're such a fraud, you'll never criticize Trump. It's like, I. I can and I will. I'm just not gonna harp on this particular Epstein timeline that I don't give a. About. Who was it who said, well, Cash.

[Dasha]

Patel's out there lying his ass off, but someone at some point said that they were told, and maybe this was, like, even prior to Epstein dying, but that he was the f. Like FBI's and to not get involved.

[Anna]

Huh.

[Dasha]

And I think his hands are taught, like, he can't. They're not gonna release the client list.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

There is maybe like, officially no client list based on, like, warped reality language. Like, obviously they've. There have been investigations and they're being covered up and misconstrued for a variety of reasons. But whatever those reasons are, are something like bad. But the world is bad and things about it are unchangeable. And like, the truth in this earthly sense, there's not going to be earthly justice. Earthly, like, revelation. Maybe in the next life we'll get.

[Anna]

The fact is, like, douth that points out, like, you do effectively have a uni party system in certain deep blue and deep red states, which is where he says you have to seek these kind of independent third party candidates. And he explains why in certain deep red or deep blue states, you'll have like an aberration of like, you know, like, you'll have like a Republican governor in a blue state or a Democrat governor in a red state because people are fed up with the uni party system. And I think, like, in America specifically, for a long time, we were trending toward a uni party system as a whole in terms of like, the. The basic default mode was the Democrats running everything and the Republicans acting as their enablers and lackeys.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And I don't know if that.

[Dasha]

But that has. Trump was already outside of the two party system was the point. It was like he was a political outsider and maybe he's not so much.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

You know, realistically, I guess he's beholden to Israel the same as everyone else, but he's. He's at least symbolizes something different. And I think that's what resonated with people.

[Anna]

Trump is like capitalism or monogamy. He's not perfect, but he's better than nothing.

[Dasha]

Mm.

[Anna]

And I'll take him over, like, Hillary or Kamala any day.

[Dasha]

Harris Walls.

[Anna]

Yeah. And I'm not really into the whole, like, fuent hard or Spencerian accelerationist argument that you have to have, like, Democrats in power.

[Dasha]

Is that what he says?

[Anna]

He was. He was sort of teasing at that. And then Spencer said it outright because Richard. Yeah, because he was caping for Kamala.

[Dasha]

He really misconstrued my tweet.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

In a way that was baffling, humiliating for both of us.

[Anna]

He's probably just horny for you.

[Dasha]

I despise. I literally was like, I cannot.

[Anna]

Me too.

[Dasha]

Piece of literal pearls before swine. Richard has the audacity to talk to me about Jeffrey. When anyone comes at me about I'm like, ah, you think I don't know about Jeffrey Epstein? You don't think I've actually mind in rap because I was on so much Vyvanse in 2019? You don't think I've did. You don't think I raised speed ran literally speed ran this Richard, how dare.

[Anna]

You is the only guy who activates my late anti white hatred where I'm like on my Azalea banks tip, I'm like, you look like you smell like some baloney or a flinchy ass or like a roll of nickels or whatever.

[Dasha]

I want to bark at him like a dog and stuff. Scare him. I want to go crazy.

[Anna]

I want to punch him. Like that guy did.

[Dasha]

Like an anti super soldier who attacked him. I get it. He's one of those punchable people him. Anyway, what was he saying? Sorry, I got.

[Anna]

No, no, I don't remember. He was just, he was doing the whole like Democrat accelerationist thing back at the tail end of the Trump campaign if I remember correctly. But yeah, Doutha makes this point that like I'm going to just quote him. If you parse Musk's postings and repostings, that seems to mean a third party strategy that targets a handful of close Senate and House seats, trying to create a legislative faction that exerts control over both bodies by preventing anything from passing without their crucial votes. Credit were due. This is a somewhat better plan than just backing a doomed third party presidential bid in 2028. But then there's a catch. Before the travails of Doge, I would have said that it was a mistake to automatically bet against Musk. Now it seems safer to just acknowledge up front that this plan is unlikely to work out and that Musk will probably find it too difficult to seriously pursue. I mean, obviously then he gets into this pretty like smart and insightful argument about how in order to pull this off, you would need to build a trust not only through like the prospective candidate pool in these selected states, but through the figure of Musk himself. Like, in other words, it would have to be like Musk funded, but he couldn't be the front man. He.

[Dasha]

Yeah, he would have to start black a blackmail ring that made people indebted to him politically and financially. And I don't think he has it in him. And he's got these companies to run.

[Anna]

Yeah. And starting a third party in the United States is not at all like starting a company that Makes like electric cars or like space rockets or whatever. It's completely different.

[Dasha]

No, he's not cut out for politics. Yeah, he, I mean, outside of his like capacity to finance certain political endeavors, but it's really a mistake.

[Anna]

Or social media platforms, like, that's his major role.

[Dasha]

I mean, it actually sucks.

[Anna]

It does. Yeah.

[Dasha]

He broke it.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

I. Yeah. And I think it's just foolish to counter. To really come at Trump like this when you've like co signed so much of what he's like. When you've been. It's like the Epstein stuff where they're like, there's a client list and all the Democrats are on it and then they're like, oh, there's no client list where he's like, I love Trump. I'm dark maga. I'm this all the way to pivot and be like, actually, he's on the Epstein list and I'm a new thing. It's like, no one believes you. You don't have any credibility. You seem dumb as.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

No one cares about the deficit. No one knows you're talking about.

[Anna]

You, like single handedly tanked. We know the intellectual level of the discourse.

[Dasha]

We know you wanted the electric vehicle mandate. You wanted everyone to drive your shitty ass cars that make you drive to a charging station if you don't have enough battery when it should be up to you. You should have the control of your destiny. And you're like, the cybertruck's disgusting. X sucks Grok. I hate that it's called grog. They like made it racist and now this.

[Anna]

I'm getting all horny for Gro because it's being like anti semitic and yeah.

[Dasha]

Daddy, the CEO resigned.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

Focus on yourself. We don't want the America Party. We don't want the EV mandate. We don't want the techie. That's not why Trump won.

[Anna]

Also, you're an immigrant.

[Dasha]

You're not even from here.

[Anna]

He's. He's like, he's like Sauron Mumdani.

[Dasha]

He's an African American. Oh my God. I don't even care about sor.

[Anna]

Mom.

[Dasha]

Donnie lying, checking black on his Columbia allocation.

[Anna]

No.

[Dasha]

Which his dad was a professor at.

[Anna]

And he didn't even get in. It's like a done deal. If your dad is a professor, how at a school you automatically get.

[Dasha]

Isn't that like. And he tried. That's how you went to Rutgers.

[Anna]

Yeah. Literally.

[Dasha]

Literally. You would.

[Anna]

I mean, low key. I would have gotten into Rutgers anyway. Because it's not sure. Not because I'm so smart. Or such a good student. But because, like, the acceptance, it's pretty high. Yeah. The admission criteria is pretty mid. Anyone can get into Rutgers.

[Dasha]

But he said he was black, which is. I don't care. Whatever. But the amount of people being like, as a man, as an immigrant with parents from. Who's lived on different continents and is all these, like, ethnic identities. Of course it's confusing. It's like, don't act like.

[Anna]

He was not confused. He knew what he was doing. He was not confused.

[Dasha]

For an 18 year old with South Asian parents who was born in Uganda.

[Anna]

Yeah, Uganda. Be kidding me.

[Dasha]

You got to be kidding me, bruh.

[Anna]

Yeah. So I guess all of this came out because of hack documents that Chris Rufo then broke, which disclosed his SAT scores, which were 2140 out of 2400. I don't know what that means because I'm really aging myself, but back when I was.

[Dasha]

You did the 16?

[Anna]

Yeah, I did the 1600. So I don't even know what this means.

[Dasha]

I did the. Or 19. I forgot. Yeah, I did the 24.

[Anna]

Okay. How'd you do? Don't say it.

[Dasha]

1950 out of 24, I think. Yeah.

[Anna]

Okay. So.

[Dasha]

Because I didn't do. I didn't. I also took it in my junior year because I graduated high school early. I didn't really prep. I kind of was just trying to exit my situation, so I just did it. I wasn't. I didn't do that well.

[Anna]

Same.

[Dasha]

But I'm verbally intelligent.

[Anna]

Yes.

[Dasha]

I'm not a shape rotator or anything like that. And so he did kind of. Okay. He did okay. I think even mine were like 90 something percentile.

[Anna]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dasha]

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I was like, remember being like, okay, I'm not that smart. I'm not that dumb, I guess like.

[Anna]

Fredo and the Godfather. So that's on the lower end of median scores for admitted students, but likely above. I didn't score for black students. So what he's doing, clearly he's a strategic reason. He's checking the African American box to signal that he's black because that would make his SAT scores seem less mid. So that he stands a higher chance of getting admitted to Colombia. But also then he gets to retain some plausible deniability and pretend that he could potentially be confused because he is literally an immigrant from Africa or.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

To America. But he also checked the Asian box as an Indian guy whose parents hail from the Gujarat region of the subcontinent. If he really Wanted to telegraph his national identity. He would specify in the notes that.

[Dasha]

He was Ugandan, American, Uganda yet.

[Anna]

But he's basically like, double dipping and trying to say, I'm black and Asian. I'm Blasian.

[Dasha]

Like Tiger Woods.

[Anna]

Yeah. And this was at a time when wokeness was on the rise. Columbia, like many elite universities, had a race conscious affirmative action admissions program in place. This is from the New York Times, which is reporting this information. An eminently neutral tone. Acting like they weren't in on the game.

[Dasha]

Wait, and on what game?

[Anna]

Like, they were also. They were promoting all of this.

[Dasha]

Right.

[Anna]

Anti racist, Black Lives Matter, affirmative action from the jump. And now they're kind of like, dialing it back. They're like platforming Curtis Yarvin a ton. Yeah. Like, so I can't shut up about. They can't shut the up about. They're like, Elon Musk consulted Curtis Yarvin. Both of them declined to comment for the interview. It's like, like.

[Dasha]

Who told you that.

[Anna]

Curtis Yvin is up in there?

[Dasha]

Who told you guys that? The biggest attention. I love him to death. One of my favorite. With my favorite monarchist. Easily.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

No, I don't have ill will towards them.

[Anna]

Huh?

[Dasha]

I don't have ill will towards. I did, vaguely. But when every time I see him, I'm like, toward Yarvey? Yeah. I'm like.

[Anna]

I mean, I find him. I like, sweet and endearing. I like that he whips out the baby pics and wants to compare. I like that he kind of, like, talks at you.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Doesn't really ask questions.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

He's a nice and he's charming guy.

[Dasha]

I'm. I see why. I see why the New York Times just can't get enough of him. But we digress.

[Anna]

Yes.

[Dasha]

From. What were we talking about?

[Anna]

Once you get to know a guy and realize that he's not, like, Machiavellian or malevolent, you kind of just like, have to accept him for what he is. But the truth is, it really is like, Kubrick esque. Because the truth is so much like, bleaker and more mundane. Can I steal a cigar? Zon said his answers on the college application were an attempt to represent his complex background, given the limited choices before him not to gain an upper hand in the admissions process. It's not that complicated.

[Dasha]

You don't have to.

[Anna]

Eric Adams replied, the African American identity is not a checkbox of convenience. It's a history, a struggle, and a lived experience. For someone to exploit that for personal gain is. Is deeply offensive. So True. Kang. Actual African Americans would never do that. They would never exploit their we have a black man identity for personal gain. They would. They would never start a movement to launder. To launder money to buy real estate properties.

[Dasha]

Honestly, respect. Well, remember, honestly, I'm not even mad. I can remember when I was Abram.

[Anna]

Echo Kendi when Boston university gave him $40 million.

[Dasha]

No. To start.

[Anna]

We talked about this on the.

[Dasha]

Oh my God.

[Anna]

I've been strangled too sexually choked out too hard.

[Dasha]

Causes brain damage.

[Anna]

I'm like always like making excuses for my like lack of mental clarity and acuity. I'm like, I have mommy brain long Covid functional alcoholism. It's really because I've been choked out too hard too many times. But okay. I was talking to Wade at some wigger barbecue and as usual he had like the best most reason take on this, which was that Zoron checking the African American box was relatively low on his list of offenses.

[Dasha]

Yeah, no, no. I. That's why I don't really care.

[Anna]

He saw it as a kind of like youthful folly that we've all been guilty of.

[Dasha]

I was very. I had a hard time with applying to colleges because I remember there was like a drop down list of like my parents.

[Anna]

Occupations. Yeah.

[Dasha]

And circus freak. Yeah.

[Anna]

One circus freak.

[Dasha]

Literally it was. I was like, this isn't Taylor. Like I remember feeling really like he didn't feel this way because his dad taught there obviously and his mom was.

[Anna]

Like a world renowned filmmaker.

[Dasha]

But I felt I was like, oh, I'm really alienated from this. As an immigrant.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

With unconventional upbringing. But I was like, yeah, this isn't. I'm not. You know, my parents haven't donated money to this school. They don't. I'm not gonna get into like a good college.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

Because I'm not that smart. And. But also like it's not. This isn't my game to play.

[Anna]

I mean, my dad point blank said I am not paying for Cornell or Columbia. You go to Rutgers and you get comp sci degree and I wr. Because they have woman quota.

[Dasha]

And you.

[Anna]

Know, the rest is history.

[Dasha]

So yeah. Useful folly. I'm Will. I'm completely willing to forgive. It doesn't matter.

[Anna]

And then there was. Yeah. I don't know if I agree with him. It is very charitable.

[Dasha]

What offends me is people acting like he's. This is indicative of some like confused innocence.

[Anna]

Naivete. It's not. He clearly knew what he was doing. His parents put him up to it. It was like very obvious. It's like that one time.

[Dasha]

What's your job?

[Anna]

Yeah, what the. It looks like that one time. That Indian girl. I've told the story on the show before. The Indian girl from my high school lied on her college admissions and said her mom had cancer.

[Dasha]

That's crazy.

[Anna]

Which is Indian word. Bad karma.

[Dasha]

Well, you also know how much like, Indians and Asians piggybacked off of BLM to start, like, their own social justice movements that didn't really apply. But Zo runs that didn't follow the same logic. And they just kind of like, were like brown bipoc.

[Anna]

Yes. They were willing to overlook the fact that the vast majority of hate crimes against Asians are committed by black teens.

[Dasha]

Yeah, no, it was completely throw their.

[Anna]

Law in with the black community, the oppressed and the marginalized, the voices of the unheard, because they thought they could get ahead. And so Ron's frankly brilliant for doing that because by checking both black and Asian, he's signaling that he's high IQ and high responsibility, but at the same time, oppressed and marginalized.

[Dasha]

Well, they also leaked his, like, op eds.

[Anna]

Oh, yeah. His unearthed blog post from 2014 where he's like, seething about naughty. Being able to express his racial identity in class. And also he says lack of sexual access to white women.

[Dasha]

They laugh at him when he pronounces the H in his name or like.

[Anna]

When he tries to correct them on the pronunciation of like a daisy surname. I. This is. Well, okay, this is where it's so annoying.

[Dasha]

Like, Russian people did. Russian people don't do that.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

I've never been like. Actually, it's like a Russian pronunciation.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

I've never even. My own. I. It's. My name is Nikrasova.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

And I could.

[Anna]

You're like, necrosova.

[Dasha]

I came to America, I said my name. Necroso. Necroso.

[Anna]

Catchy.

[Dasha]

And it's phonetic. You guys can figure it out. Like, that's crazy.

[Anna]

The. The real pronunciation of my name is so ugly and disgusting. It sounds like a pubic.

[Dasha]

Was beautiful. That's my name.

[Anna]

That sounds so.

[Dasha]

And I said, call me. Let's call me Dasha. Necros Nekrosova.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

Just happy to be here.

[Anna]

Anna or Anna. I'm like, boy, you horny.

[Dasha]

Who cares?

[Anna]

But I'm. I'm actually quite forgiving of his 2014 Pro Brown, anti white blog post. Right wingers take this stuff at face value. And then they see this young person. I mean, like, Zoran would have been, what, like 22 or 23 at the time. They See him like expressing like pro brown anti white sentiment. And they're like, they think that he's being totally sincere and dead serious. But part of it is like literally that like young people are divorced from the true motives underlying their ideological convictions. Because also, let's face it, they just want to socially belong and be sexually desirable. So they come up with all these elaborate explanations for why they aren't that and blame external factors such as like racism or misogyny when the reality is that you're just like awkward and maladjust and have a bad personality. And there's this point in the blog post where he's talking about how the white students would sigh whenever he tried to like pronounce some.

[Dasha]

How often are they fuzzy names?

[Anna]

And that's just like not true. Because you have to remember that all the white students in his cohort are sipping the woke Kool Aid just as much as he is and are probably walking on eggshells around guys like him. And if they're sighing, it's literally because he's being a performative little and his personality sucks. Or possibly it's just all in his head.

[Dasha]

Yeah. But like you said with young people, you know, it's not. Doesn't seem to apply in his case. Like sometimes they're rebelling against their parents.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

Like they do feel convicted in their beliefs.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

Because they are. College is confused, you know, it's a confusing time.

[Anna]

And I don't, I don't think like Zo Ron is, young people are allowed.

[Dasha]

To have Dom in bad opinion.

[Anna]

Yeah. I don't think that he is what the right wing makes him out to be. Exactly. Like, I don't think that he's a vehemently, vitriolically, anti white ideologue. I think that it's rather stupid and mindless on his part. It's like a reflexive knee jerk reaction.

[Dasha]

Well, he's power hungry.

[Anna]

Yeah. Yeah. He's not like sincerely.

[Dasha]

That's the impression I get.

[Anna]

Yeah. The one troubling detail that I did glean from that New York Times article, the write up about him, like saying that he's African American and Asian on his college admissions is that he remains the dual citizen of America and Uganda. I think that should be disputed, disqualifying when running for elected office in the United States. Like you should not be a citizen of any other country. You should renounce your citizenship. That's crazy. Not allow. Not allow. That's insane that that would even be.

[Dasha]

Yeah. I mean there's probably so many who Are citizens of Israel and.

[Anna]

No, I know. I mean. Yeah. Like you should just not. Not be a dual citizen.

[Dasha]

But they. Well, when Ted Cruz went on Tucker.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

And he was. What's the Jewish lobbyist organization called?

[Anna]

The what?

[Dasha]

Like the big Jewish lobby.

[Anna]

Oh, adl.

[Dasha]

No, no, there's like a specifically Israeli one. God, I'm so stupid. And he was like, what do they lobby for? And he was. He was like, nothing. It's like obviously they are lobbying for. Is for a different country. They shouldn't be allowed to do that.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

And that's the biggest, I guess, disappointment outright about the Trump administration. Is it kind of like lays bear.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

How owned we are.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

But people are starting to notice at least. And maybe it's better. It's out there. I don't know how to. You know, I don't know.

[Anna]

Yeah. I mean, my main beef with Zoran isn't that he's anti Israel or anti Semitic. It's that he's a communist.

[Dasha]

He's a foreign communist with dual citizenship.

[Anna]

Yeah. And it sucks because this is like the worst like rat, like rat king, circle jerk ever. Because all the. All the Jews are out in full effect counter signaling him.

[Dasha]

I know.

[Anna]

For being anti Jewish, calling attention to their cause, blatantly lying about the. The source of anti Semitism.

[Dasha]

They do be doing that.

[Anna]

We should just talk about auto erotic.

[Dasha]

Asphyxiation or just erotic asphyxiation, I guess.

[Anna]

Oh, yeah. Irregular. Yeah.

[Dasha]

So. Okay. I'm gonna pee.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

I'm so horny already.

[Anna]

I like how you keep nervously checking the zoom recorder to make sure it's.

[Dasha]

Still going because it's. We're in a different space, so it's more out of reach and I would hate.

[Anna]

We're doing a good job. Yeah.

[Dasha]

Yeah. I just want to make sure it's. But I left it rolling, so you're gonna have to cut that. My bathroom breakout. Oh, yeah. Okay. So there was an article in the Guardian about the dangers of choking women during sex.

[Anna]

There's no safe way to do it. The rapid rise and horrifying risk. Risks of choking during sex. Yeah. No, there's no safe way to do it. That's why it's erotic.

[Dasha]

There's no safe. As we've said on this show, there's not even really a safe way to have sex.

[Anna]

No.

[Dasha]

There's really no such thing.

[Anna]

Using a condom is basically like having lesbian sex.

[Dasha]

It doesn't count.

[Anna]

It doesn't count.

[Dasha]

Yeah, it's not. If you're not touching the inner walls, then you're not really having sex.

[Anna]

Growing concern around the normalization of choking, I. E. Strangulation during sex has led to the recent announcement that pornography depicting it will be criminalized in an amendment to the Crime and Policing Bill. This is in the uk but obviously there's like a similar discourse raging in the.

[Dasha]

But they can't do it here.

[Anna]

Apparently it raises your risk for brain damage, stroke, death, etc. My notes say Brian damage because. Well, it most. It just seems like a meme to me. First of all, like, who's actually getting regularly choked out during sex?

[Dasha]

Well, apparently 64 of college aged women at some point have experience choking. The article quotes heavily from a founder of a campaigning group called We Can't Consent to this, the wcct. Wow. And they're furious, but not at all surprised. And I went on their website where they basically they explicitly lobby. This is their stated extent. But obviously they want like all choking to be banned. But they.

[Anna]

What could possibly go wrong when you.

[Dasha]

They don't want men who murder women to get off. Off with manslaughter. She asked me to choke her and well, guess what?

[Anna]

She did.

[Dasha]

She probably did. And well the thing about them, yeah on their site they. It says at least 60 UK women. And I was like, okay, what? Like since when? Yeah, like what?

[Anna]

Yeah, where is your data coming from?

[Dasha]

It's literally like since the 70s.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

There have been 60 women who have been killed in who've been strangled by their sex partner. And then the website features test extensive testimonials that are some of the horniest shit.

[Anna]

He choked me and it felt like a kiss.

[Dasha]

No, they're all literally like. And all of a sudden he was six feet tall and above me and I, yeah, I like I met him on a BDSM group and the next thing I knew he was hurting me and touching me with his strong hands. I felt his rough hands on my body. Like I literally was like, what is. Like what. What is the point of publishing who. No one's reading this to be like concerned.

[Anna]

They're like gooning while feigning psycho. They cite all this like data and legislation on choking and other like dangerous, possibly criminal sexual practices. But obviously the data is spotty and the legislation tends to backfire. Like, is there more data because more women are getting choked out or is it merely because more people are thinking about it, talking about it, etc. It's like the autism. Well, the hypothesis. They literally started something in the UK called the Institute of. Of Addressing Strangulation, established with Home Office funding in 2020. Two, imagine A, working in that office, and B, being a taxpayer that funds that office. Like your. Your country, your cities are being overrun by migrants from the third world, and they're trying to, like, fund some fake and gay institute that addresses, like, Zoomat's getting choked out by their boyfriends. What are you talking about?

[Dasha]

By their situationship. Yes, but Anna. Okay, so. Because I was confronted with a number, I was like, what the. So then I did kind of run the numbers, and then I was, you know, I was a little curious.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

And something like 10,000. It's like the numbers are. I think I'll be. I don't remember because I. Brain damage from being choked during sex. But it was like something. It was like 6 to 10, 10 being the absolute most.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

Women are raped per year by migrants.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

So that's clearly a far bigger problem.

[Anna]

Yes, That's a bigger problem than, like.

[Dasha]

Then, like, people getting choked to death randomly and like, some guy getting off because he says, she asked for it.

[Anna]

And there's getting choked by Caleb, but you're actually getting choked by Muhammad and his friends.

[Dasha]

They're still getting charged with manslaughter. So it doesn't seem that. It just seemed. It's so.

[Anna]

And they'll try to chalk it up. Choke it up. Choke it up to the prevalence of porn or, like, the excesses of sex positivity or whatever. But really what it comes down to is that, like, basically, like, young people, they're having casual sex and hookup scenarios or they're not having any sex at all.

[Dasha]

We're not sure which. Which is more problematic.

[Anna]

Yeah. And like. Oh, here's a really good paragraph.

[Dasha]

Well, I think. Yeah, you go ahead.

[Anna]

For Lucy, Not. Not her real name. This is one of the girls that they interview about the perils of sexual pleasure. Strangulation during sex has become something that she hopes she'll never return to something she has almost. Almost grown out of. I've been with my current boyfriend for over a year, and at some point we had a conversation where I asked, why don't you choke me? He said he had no desire to listen to that paragraph again. They had a convo. She's not saying to him, please don't choke me. I don't like it. Or even, do you want. Do you want to choke me? Or have you ever had a desire to choke me? Do you get off on choking? She's asking, why haven't you choked me? She's testing him. Because in the void brain, if he's not doing it, but Everyone else is doing it, or he's doing it to other girls, then he's not that into you, and you're not that special. And I posted that on Twitter and I had, like, mad dudes in the DMS being like, I have never initiated choking. It's always the girl who brings it up or, like, slapping. Any rough sex practice.

[Dasha]

I mean, there's.

[Anna]

There are men who initiate it, but let's be real. It's like, what. Like, when you think about that, what can be explained as, like, toxic masculinity in hindsight can more readily be explained as over excitement or over enthusiasm in the present moment.

[Dasha]

Well, again, I really urge the people to check out the testimonials on the WCC TT campaign sight. Because they read completely. They're indistinguishable from sexual fantasies.

[Anna]

And I don't think I'm, like, from, like, erotic fiction.

[Dasha]

Yeah, it's like the. These women are. Have heavily eroticized these experiences and crave them. And there's nothing wrong with that.

[Anna]

Here's another quote. Never was rough sex discussed before, during, or after. Among my friends. There's this competitiveness about not being boring, not being vanilla. I think it's very prevalent for women my age. And no one wants to kink shame anyone. Says, Lucy.

[Dasha]

Huh?

[Anna]

And it's like, okay, obviously what's going on here is, like, that women, they have these desires, these urges that they are ashamed of, cannot take responsibility for, that are ratcheted up by intrasexual competition, and then they have to flip around and blame men or society.

[Dasha]

I mean, I. I don't think they're wrong. Exactly. I do think that the prevalence of pornography.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

Has shifted the tropes that are, like, expected, especially in, like, a casual sex encounter where people don't really know each other.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

They both probably watch a ton of porn, so they're both, like, acting out things that neither of them really want. Yeah.

[Anna]

It seems like men are under the impression that women want it and women are under the impression that men want it.

[Dasha]

No. There's so few people out there that are, like, I feel actively, like, exploiting others for their own extreme sexual gratification.

[Anna]

Very few people are actual narcissistic or sociopathic personality to get off on the pain of others.

[Dasha]

They are trying to get you off. They think it's something you want. They want to be desired by you and to be perceived in a certain way. You get. You don't really know each other, so you're just kind of, like, enacting something You've seen in a porn.

[Anna]

Yes. And women are like, oh, well, most other girls are frigid and annoying, so I'm gonna be slutty and pornographic and fulfill his fantasies. And men are like, well, most other guys are like cucks or like soy lennials or whatever. So I'm gonna be like, aristocratic and aggressive.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And like, buck the me too trend. Most. Most people are actually bottoms and people pleasers and want to make a good impression. And also like that, you know, they talk about, like, how, like, you know, in addition to, like, the choking and slapping, men will often say, like, I want to rape you or I'm gonna. I'm gonna rape you.

[Dasha]

They just think you want to hear.

[Anna]

That, you know, largely negates the possibility of any actual rape, which tends to depend on, like, an element of surprise.

[Dasha]

In that article, it's like he was an age gap and he said he was going to rape her. And then this Lucy, if she even exists, talks about how she did these things in service of, like, male gratification. But then she raves about her current boyfriend who she's so orgasmic with, which women always do. They love to say their current boyfriend has the biggest dick and he's making them come the most anyone ever has. Because he doesn't want to choke her. She's acquiescing to his sexual desires, which I guess are vanilla. And reframing that as something.

[Anna]

Can I just say, but if she.

[Dasha]

Got another boyfriend who wanted to choker.

[Anna]

She'D be like, he's. She'd be like, based and red. Building sexual monarchist over here. He wants to be the CEO of my.

[Dasha]

Exactly.

[Anna]

Do you think Curtis Yarvin's a good lover? He's probably sensual and passionate.

[Dasha]

I'm gonna be really. I'm gonna actually. Yeah.

[Anna]

Say I. Yeah.

[Dasha]

Truly think. Yeah.

[Anna]

Yep.

[Dasha]

And not because I'm attracted to him or anything like that. Because, like, he's a poet and, you know, I think, yeah.

[Anna]

He's in a bohemian.

[Dasha]

He's interesting, you know.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

Yeah. I bet he's an intriguing lover. He goes de vere mode on it. You're getting Shakespeare from some of these other guys.

[Anna]

He's.

[Dasha]

He's built different. Oh, yeah. I'll give him that. I'll give him that.

[Anna]

I remember my dad when he was raping me. Just kidding. When he was trying to show affection to his kids or to his pets, he would get overheated and, like, catch us in his arms and give us, like, a violent nogi. Not because he, like, Wanted to wound or hurt us, but because he was so, like, we were so cute and he was so enthusiastic. And that's like the. The nature of, like, that's how men express love. Like, especially when faced with a woman that they're sexually attracted to. Like, they have to toggle between two conflicting impulses, which are like, to destroy you and to take care of you.

[Dasha]

Well, the issue is a lot of these people aren't in love.

[Anna]

No, they're not.

[Dasha]

But, like, they're just trying to do something they saw someone else do that they think the woman wants. But usually because she's verbalized and said that she wants it because she thinks.

[Anna]

Because she wants to impress him.

[Dasha]

It's just.

[Anna]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dasha]

Of like, people who aren't really in touch with their desires and so they're like both harming each other. I bet if you surveyed men, they'd say it was really upsetting. I had sex with this girl. She wanted me to hit her.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

And I don't really want to and made me feel bad.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

Like, I think lots of sensitive young men out there aren't like. Yeah, it's trying to maximize harm in their sexual encounters.

[Anna]

No, no. They're like most, most people, like, actually like somewhat intense and rough, but ultimately vanilla heterosexual sex. Like, sorry, I hate to break it.

[Dasha]

To you, but also there's nothing. Like, if these people really cared, they would be doing advocacy around, like, safe ways to choke, you know, like, because people aren't going to stop choking each other. The real. The real ones, the real chokers out there aren't gonna stop.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

Because they see it less in porn. And it's like very much a natural impulse because it is intense to be deprived of oxygen.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

And simultaneous to an orgasm. It's like, it's not brain. I'm not. I feel like. I feel like Elon Musk and his desad costume right now trying to explain something really basic. Actually. It's like not that deviant and like, if it's not path. If you don't have to be choked every time.

[Anna]

It is like getting choked is like scary and painful.

[Dasha]

Yeah. So it's having sex.

[Anna]

Yeah. But specifically getting choked because it really, you know, collapses your wind. Well, feeling out of control, Feeling sore throat.

[Dasha]

Yeah. No, it's not like sustainable to insist on inflict on other people personally.

[Anna]

Not my fave thing. I'm not like a choking advocate.

[Dasha]

I'm not. I'm not a choking advocate either. But I can understand the basic.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

You know, they also were like, like Loops hang. Spanking in there. Don't.

[Anna]

Slapping. Slapping.

[Dasha]

Spanking, too.

[Anna]

Oh, they said spanking at one point.

[Dasha]

I was like, spanking. Come on, let people live.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

Can. Can a boop not breathe for a second? Just a little. And, like, when you are in love with someone and you have good sex with them, they will be adapted, choking you in a way that doesn't cause you death.

[Anna]

Well, no.

[Dasha]

I mean.

[Anna]

No, no, no.

[Dasha]

I know maybe I'm coping, but I'm. Again, I'm not. I'm not some. I'm not a freak. I'm normal. I don't have a thing for it, you know, whatever.

[Anna]

I mean, I don't know.

[Dasha]

I. But I do think there are, like. I mean, sex is violent. The violent impulses implicit in sex.

[Anna]

Yes, Andrea Dworkin, absolutely right. Like, all heterosexual sex is race.

[Dasha]

Yes, yes.

[Anna]

Again, I say that's a good thing, she thinks it's a bad thing. Yeah.

[Dasha]

It'S just a.

[Anna]

Gather around young people.

[Dasha]

It's just a real thing. It's just that sex is aggressive and relationships are aggressive and.

[Anna]

Yeah, they're combative, conflicted, scary.

[Dasha]

They wouldn't be erotic if.

[Anna]

If they were.

[Dasha]

If they were like.

[Anna]

Like sanitary, seamless. If you were wearing your Covid mask.

[Dasha]

And asking for affirmative scent at every.

[Anna]

Juncture, they're like, oh, you have to ask for consent. When you choke somebody, it's like, no. But that negates the whole power and purpose of the choking, which, again, I'm not really like, a huge fan of.

[Dasha]

No, no.

[Anna]

And, like, you know, you realize, like, when it. When it comes. It sounds like I am, but there's really, like, no technique or strategy involved. It's just, like, rare. You have to be compatible. You have to have some trust. Meaning you have to do it over and over again with the same person. And most people in most scenarios rarely get past the hookup phase, which is like a kind of fact of life. Post sexual revolution.

[Dasha]

I mean, you have. I have this really traumatic. Not really traumatic, but my former acting teacher said something that really struck a nerve once, where he was screaming at us, very classic acting teacher style, about how we were all, like, so untalented and doomed, and it's because we were so dissociated. And he said, and you guys. You think you're like, I know some of you guys are. I was, like, fucking a guy in my acting class. And we did have really just, you know, I was like, he's like, you're just using each other as, like, human dildos and pocket Pussies. You don't. You're not real. You're all so like.

[Anna]

That's so true. Just like the vast majority. That's why I kind of like also check out when I hear the dating discourse or like the gender discourse, because it's like, yes, this is all worsened by social media, porn, so on. But the vast majority of people have zero chemistry and are not compatible. And it's like very rare that you encounter somebody who you have. Who you're like, simpatico toward.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

It's like, like, you know, taking. Take the Internet out of it. Just like a rare occurrence. And even then, it's like basically not guaranteed to last. Doomed to fail one way or another. Louis CK but one of you dies before the other one. Even if you make it to the end.

[Dasha]

That'S the best case scenario.

[Anna]

Well, it's kind of bleak and sad.

[Dasha]

So like, let's not.

[Anna]

My emphysema is acting up from.

[Dasha]

Let people hit each other if it's. Yeah, whatever. I guess. Yeah. I was gonna say they're not hurting anybody, but the cases, they are hurting some people, but it's such a minuscule amount of people. It seems so extra to like campaign and broadcast concern.

[Anna]

Yes. Over something again, like all these like thin lipped, PO face church ladies swooping in.

[Dasha]

They sell T shirts that say like vanilla on them. Yeah. It's. Or like neo prude or something. It's like they're just really. It's like there is. It's feminine branding.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

And it's so gross. And it's like, good luck.

[Anna]

I mean, I think like, the, the key to solving this problem is to introduce more like discretion and mystique into the whole thing and like, not talk about. Not destigmatize it so much.

[Dasha]

Yeah, yeah.

[Anna]

Like a, like sex and relationships are essentially high risk and you wouldn't want it any other way. We're all bug chasers here.

[Dasha]

Once again, you said it. There is no such thing as safe sex.

[Anna]

There isn't. There shouldn't be.

[Dasha]

It's really wise.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

There shouldn't. It's not true. If you're having safe sex, you're not doing it.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

Correct. And you're probably not having a good time doing it.

[Anna]

Wrong. Yeah.

[Dasha]

And that's worth evaluating and just. Yeah. Like.

[Anna]

But I feel bad for all these young people who are like, not tapped into their needs or desires. And I'm, I'm fundamentally like, sympatico to them. Copacetic, whatever. Like, I get it.

[Dasha]

Well, yeah. When I was Young. I didn't know.

[Anna]

Yeah. And, like, you know, I thought I was, like, you could meet one guy and be, like, grossed out by the experience of him choking you out, and then you can meet another guy and be, like, touched and riveted by it. It really depends on the person.

[Dasha]

Yeah. And part of life is rolling the dice. Miss around and finding out and finding out. And, like, you're statistically more likely to get raped in general or to be celibate and childless.

[Anna]

Well, that's the other thing. It's like, you know, there's this big furor about choking when the reality is that women be, like, crushing birth control pills and shoving tampons up their. Like, they're doing way more horrific and risky things to themselves at all times.

[Dasha]

I know.

[Anna]

Like, you think about what that really entails. Like, there I saw a tweet right before you got here about toxic shock syndrome, how some, like, literal. Like, literal, like, pre pubertal or early pubertal girl almost died because she had massive organ failure because it turns out she had a tampon in and was swimming in some lake in the Ozarks, and the bacteria from the lake contaminated the tampon string and gave her tss. And she was, like, not expected to pull through. And she did. Say a prayer for her. But, like. Yeah, like, you're putting, like, xenoestrogens and microplastics up your every time you menstruate because it's the convenient thing to do. And you'd rather, like, not wear a pad because that's gross and messy. You roll the die every time with that.

[Dasha]

I mean. Yeah, it's true. And, like, there's this way bigger problem.

[Anna]

Generally my experience is, like, you're with a guy and you ask him to, like, reel in his, like, violent and rough behavior. He will. Because he wants to make you happy at the end of the day.

[Dasha]

Yeah. He just is trying to make you happy. And a lot of people have been conditioned. And again, because people don't really know each other, violence becomes, like, a way of approximating intimacy in lieu of, like, the real thing. It's just an easy way to, like, feel more intense.

[Anna]

Yes.

[Dasha]

And close to someone, you're always, like.

[Anna]

Chasing the dragon of intensity.

[Dasha]

Inflict violence on you because you don't actually know them and they don't really like. Like you.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

So at least if you can get them to hit you, they'll. You'll feel like they care.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

But they don't. It is.

[Anna]

Well, it's also getting upside mantra. Yeah.

[Dasha]

And like don't necessarily even want to be hitting you.

[Anna]

Yeah. There comes a moment in every woman's sexual life, the moment that happens again and again where like a man inflicts violence upon you and you're like crushed and devastated or like, like secretly holding back tears, but then you're like, no, he actually loves me and this is his like kind of like ham fisted poor way of showing affection. That's the nature of heterosexual sex.

[Dasha]

Sometimes it is. Sometimes it is.

[Anna]

Yeah. Like, I mean, it usually is. Like just like literally the vast majority of people you encounter are not dark triad personalities who are trying to inflict malevolent harm upon you for their own pleasure and enjoyment.

[Dasha]

Oh, they're bottom.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

And they don't even know what they want.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

And neither do you.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

And that's why you're in this situation. And I hope you survive.

[Anna]

So true.

[Dasha]

Because no one's really being honest about their desires, which I've been advocating for years.

[Anna]

You know.

[Dasha]

I don't know how I even came up with that, but that's so true.

[Anna]

It is. Yeah.

[Dasha]

That like you have to take responsibility for what you want.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

And that entails like knowing what you want.

[Anna]

Well, yeah, it entails like identifying and owning what you want, which is hard for like literally anyone to do.

[Dasha]

Name it and claim it.

[Anna]

Yeah. And like you also want different things at different times.

[Dasha]

True. And you have to compromise with what other people want. You can't just. Unless you're like dark triad tyrannical.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

You won't always get everything exactly how you want. So you have to find, you have to improvise. I mean, that's really the best advice I have to give.

[Anna]

Yeah. But like the choking discourse which rears its ugly head every six months to a year is really also about like church ladies and moral scolds.

[Dasha]

Well, these women definitely, they like pretending.

[Anna]

To be looking out for other younger, more vulnerable women because they're like bored and dissatisfied with their own lives.

[Dasha]

They just want, and I suspect this is true about a large portion of like anti pornography people as well. Though some of those people I feel are more, have more conviction because of their like background. But with the choking specifically, I do think they just want to talk about choking because it titillates them. So they want to perpetuate a conversation how all these men are out there.

[Anna]

Trying found and fund a whole institute about it on taxpayer dollars that should be going to prosecuting Pakistani rape gangs.

[Dasha]

But they want. Yeah. To proliferate a conversation about choking because they are personally titillated.

[Anna]

And they're under choked.

[Dasha]

Yeah. And they want to live in this fantasy, handmade tale.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

Where everyone's trying to rape them and choke them.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

And it's just not adding up.

[Anna]

Yep.

[Dasha]

The numbers just aren't there.

[Anna]

No.

[Dasha]

We could wrap it up.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Let's do it.

[Dasha]

Let's do it. Let's get out of here.

[Anna]

See you in a home.