Nuzzi Salute

Summary

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Red Scare Podcast

Episode: Nuzzi Salute
Date: November 21, 2025
Hosts: Anna Khachiyan & Dasha Nekrasova

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Anna and Dasha dive into the whirlwind media and industry fallout following Dasha’s recent "cancellation"—her being dropped by her Hollywood agency after the Red Scare episode featuring controversial guest Nick Fuentes. The pair explore the mechanics of cancel culture, the parasocial drama driving it, the messy realities of “Hollywood shunning,” and the psychological profiles of both the canceled and cancelers. They pivot fluidly into breaking down the Olivia Nuzzi scandal—juxtaposing its old-fashioned, glamorous tabloid appeal with the manufactured nature of contemporary media drama. Throughout, Anna and Dasha analyze the gendered aspect of these dramas, the existential plight of actresses and writers in American culture, and the broader implications for creative autonomy and reputation.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Dasha's “Cancellation” Fallout (00:38 – 18:00)

• Dasha Recounts Her Hollywood Shunning:
  Dasha gives a firsthand account of her agency dropping her after the Nick Fuentes episode, underscoring her sense of being collateral damage in a conflict not truly about her.

  • “It felt like I was kind of collateral damage in a fight that wasn’t really about me.” – Dasha [05:46]

• Cancel Culture Mechanics:
  The hosts parse the ever-evolving definitions of cancel culture and its real-life career consequences.

  • “Everyone just has different, like, definitions of what cancel culture is. Like, depending usually on their personal experiences.” – Anna [02:02]

• The Villainy of Cancelers:
  The conversation turns to the character of the individual—as Anna recounts—a longtime obsessive critic, who instigated agency action against Dasha.

  • “The only solution he can come up with to, like, seek psychic relief is to, like, wage a jihad against you…” – Anna [24:03]

• Gender, Power, and Parasocial Resentment:
  Anna contextualizes the role of failed men attacking women’s limited success, the sadomasochistic undertones, and the futility of investing one's life in canceling others.

  “There’s this like negative, like inverted parasocial element where he has like a fixation obsession with you, but he’s also a man, not a woman. So it’s not straightforward jealousy. It’s also probably sexually tinged.” – Anna [23:05]

• Emotional Response and Narrative Control:
  Both hosts reflect on the impossibility of positively shaping the narrative or defending oneself with dignity amidst relentless public shaming.

  • “If I don’t say nothing, then the narrative is just, like… Isn’t she bad? Didn’t she do something bad?” – Dasha [109:05]

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2. The Nick Fuentes Interview & Right-Wing Populism (12:56 – 18:00)

• Nuances of Platforming Fuentes:
  Dasha defends the interview, emphasizing the difference between discussion and endorsement, and critiques audience expectations for aggressive confrontation.

  • “We’ve had just as bad people on the podcast before. The difference is that he is by far the most famous, influential… I don’t think that it’s that scandalous or disqualifying.” – Dasha [12:59]

• Strategic Concerns for the Right:
  Anna notes her skepticism of Fuentes, arguing his role may be to splinter the right and aid Democratic success by being purposefully divisive.

  • “My issue with him historically was about the role he serves in the Zeitgeist… because I was worried that he was a guy who was basically driving a wedge in the right…” – Anna [13:43]

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3. Cancel Culture, Moralizing, and Psychoanalysis (25:01 – 32:00)

• Critique of Cancel Logic:
  The hosts denounce cancelers as worse than the canceled, noting wasted energy and a fundamental moral error in fixating on others.

  • “You are a much worse piece of shit if you try to cancel somebody.” – Dasha [25:01]

• Agency, Powerlessness & Victimhood:
  Dasha is open about the sadness and betrayal felt with her agent, long a professional ally, dropping her to stave off bad PR.

  • “That was the most upsetting pain and betrayal. I had a very long relationship with my agent.” – Dasha [09:40]

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4. Olivia Nuzzi, the "Crisis Actress" — Scandal Analysis (56:07 – 113:26)

• Who is Olivia Nuzzi?

  • Former New York Magazine journalist, now in the limelight due to alleged affairs with married, powerful men (notably RFK Jr.) and a high-profile memoir American Kanto.

• Old School Scandal, New School PR:
  Anna and Dasha dissect how Nuzzi’s drama is reminiscent of Old Hollywood/femme fatale mystique, but fundamentally self-manufactured.

  • “Whereas I think that your scandal is real, if unfortunate, I find that her scandal is somewhat fake and manufactured.” – Anna [56:36]

• Literary Style & Didion Comparisons:
  Nuzzi’s memoir is both admired and lampooned for its self-conscious Joan Didion imitation—stylized, metaphor-heavy, and overtly performative.

  • “She’s kind of going for Joan Didion, but ends up like… sounds more like Chris Krause and I Love Dick.” – Anna [67:31]

  “One of the reasons why Didion is so popular and I think, like, enduring in style… is because she has such an infectious way of writing… It’s very romantic, it’s very cool.” – Dasha [65:18]

• Psychoanalysis: Is Nuzzi BPD?

  • The hosts ultimately decide Nuzzi is not truly borderline, because she is high-functioning and doesn’t “crash out” like true BPDs.
    • “Real BPD… has this total death drive, self sabotaging mechanism in it where they like can't maintain…” – Anna [61:53]

• Power, Sex & Class Strategy:

  • They discuss the calculation and self-image behind the “seductress” type; it's rarely about sex, more about validation, access, and pragmatic advancement.
    • “There are just… very clear cut materialistic advantages to becoming entangled with men who are older and powerful.” – Anna [83:09]
  • “Having affairs with rich and powerful older men can be flattering, but it’s not necessarily primarily sexually flattering...” – Anna [80:15]

• Women as Performers; Writers as Actresses:
  Drawing on Joan Didion, they muse on how female writers, Nuzzi included, “inflict themselves on the world,” seeking recognition and mythos akin to actresses.

  • “I always thought it was interesting that Didion kind of even revealed this… a lot of female writers… use their writing in the way that an actress would use her craft.” – Anna [95:27]

• Critique of Nuzzi’s Ambivalence:
  The hosts call out Nuzzi’s pose of passivity, noting she indeed got what she wanted—scandal, status, and myth—even while playing the victim.

  • “My one criticism is that… she’s sort of playing dumb and pretending that she never wanted any of this… But she got what she wanted at the end of the day.” – Anna [99:18]

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5. Literary and Cultural Analysis

• Cancel Culture As Neo-McCarthyism:

  • Drawing a parallel between the Red Scare’s history and Dasha’s experience of public shunning.
    • “Kind of the original cancel culture. Now I’m a victim. But it's way worse than McCarthyism.” – Dasha [106:44]

• Narcissism, Performance, and Social Envy:

  • Anna: “Narcissism is not a moral category, but a epistemological one, because people are, like, really envious of those…grandiose narcissists…”
    • [104:48]
  • Echo of Spinoza: “Blessed are the weak, who…think they’re good because they have no claws.” – Dasha paraphrasing [104:52]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Cancel Culture and Agency Betrayal:

  • “I think that's the real, that was the most upsetting pain and betrayal. Yeah. That I had a very long relationship with my agent.” – Dasha [09:40]

• On Old School Scandal in the Modern Age:

  • “The whole scandal… is attractive and appealing because it feels very old school. It feels like something out of the 60s or the 80s.” – Anna [62:49]

• On Didion and the Actress-Writer Dynamic:

  • “I didn’t want to be a writer. I wanted to be an actress. I didn’t realize then that it’s the same impulse…make believe, it’s performance…” – Joan Didion via Anna [94:32]

• On the Gender Politics of "Cancelers":

  • “You can’t even strike back. Because these perverts come in their pants if you talk about how they’re gross and wrong.” – Dasha [23:52]

• On the Real Meaning of “Nazi”:

  • “It’s a completely obsolete term that people wield to de-person their so-called opponents. It means nothing in this day and age other than ‘bad person I don’t like’…” – Anna [30:09]

• On the Futility of Controlling the Narrative:

  • “Even if it goes away. Which it will. It doesn’t really go away. And then it gets like. Kind of memory-holed and convoluted.” – Dasha [108:32]

• Psychoanalysis of Female Sex Scandal as Lifestyle:

  • “The fantasy is that then they’ll be catapulted into kind of like a glamorous life. But the truth is that doesn’t even happen to actresses. They have to take the initiative to advocate for themselves and inflict themselves on the world.” – Anna [97:57]

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Segment Timestamps

| Segment | Description | |---|---| | 00:38 – 18:00 | Dasha’s “cancellation” fallout; industry mechanics, personal rift, canceler profiles. | | 12:56 – 18:00 | Nick Fuentes interview controversy; political strategy and audience expectations. | | 25:01 – 32:00 | Moral critique of cancel culture; gendered aspects of online feuds. | | 56:07 – 96:07 | Olivia Nuzzi scandal: memoir, public image, Joan Didion comparisons, psychoanalytic takes. | | 96:07 – 113:26 | Literary analysis, narcissism, self-invention, and final thoughts on reputational politics. |

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Tone and Style

• Conversational, sardonic, alternating between sincere and deeply ironic.
• Intellectual references (Didion, Nietzsche, Spinoza), gossip, literary criticism.
• Confessional and defensive, especially on the topic of public shame and cancel culture.

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Takeaways for New Listeners

• Dasha and Anna offer a simultaneously personal and theoretical take on the mechanics, incentives, and psychology of public scandal, focusing on women’s roles as performers in contemporary culture.
• The episode weaves together their own recent experiences with “cancellation,” the intricate details of the Nuzzi scandal, and reflections on power, gender, and narrative.
• Listeners get a crash course in both the emotional realities and greater cultural meanings behind tabloid feuds, cancel culture, and media mythmaking.

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Note: All advertisements, intros, and outros have been omitted from this summary.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign. We're so back.

[B]

What a week it's been.

[A]

It's so over. How's it going?

[B]

How's it go?

[A]

How's.

[B]

How are you doing? I have nothing new to report.

[A]

I'm okay. I was really bad.

[B]

Yeah, I know, I know. I don't blame you.

[A]

I guess Woke is back.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

But no, it's.

[B]

Is woke in the room with you right now.

[A]

It's been a whirlwind, but I think it's all going to be okay.

[B]

Yeah. I had no doubt that you would come out on top of.

[A]

But I mean, obviously that remains. Life is long.

[B]

Yeah. And it's like a series of ebbs and flows. Damn.

[A]

I sound like such a. I mean, it's true. But yeah.

[B]

From the outside looking in, from the jump, it looked like an outrageous and like ill conceived cancellation attempt.

[A]

I mean, but it's kind of not even an attempt. I get like, well, everyone, we talked about this with the Kimmel stuff.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which I'd like to point out I took a very principled free speech stance because I do believe in that. And I was like, we shouldn't be canceling Kimmel. Yeah.

[B]

And he wasn't canceled at the end.

[A]

He wasn't canceled. But everyone just has different, like, definitions of what cancel culture is. Like, depending usually on like their personal experiences.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like for Dave Portnoy, it's like when they release a sex tape or, you know, if you lose your job for. But basically. Yeah. Like losing a job. Which I did. Uhhuh. And then losing my representation.

[B]

Which you did.

[A]

Yeah. Is kind of like feel like it checks the boxes. Uhhuh. Of being canceled.

[B]

Definitely.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I think that's the main criteria. Did you lose a livelihood over it? And you can make the point that your main livelihood and source of income is your podcast, but at the same time, that wasn't nothing. I wouldn't even call it a side hustle. It's just like a parallel career.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Yeah. Definitely not a livelihood for sure.

[B]

But. But no, but that's not true. It is part of your livelihood to make some income off of acting and writing and filmmaking, so.

[A]

Well, I can still do those things.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But yeah, I lost some income that I would have had had I done this film. Which, by the way, I mean, I really want to.

[B]

Yeah. I don't know how much you want to talk about this or what you want to disclose and we can like cut whatever.

[A]

But I'm just trying to be really careful because it's like, okay, I do understand why my Hollywood talent agency would drop me. Absolutely. I'm not like crazy. I'm not like. What?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

What do you mean? And if it had happened after we had Nick on, which no one really cared about or kind of at all. Definitely not my reps.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Maybe they secretly did, but they didn't trans. You know, no one was like, you really did it this time.

[B]

Right.

[A]

The delay and then like the sequence of events. And then I knew it was this guy.

[B]

Right. Kind of.

[A]

Cuz someone texted me and was like. Cause he's. I know that he's emailed my reps before and he's kind of like had it out for me. I didn't realize how. How tangled the. What was the headline. It was like the Thor to Dash's Hollywood shunning. Yeah. Just the. All the language.

[B]

I don't feel like you're exactly shunned from Hollywood. And in a weird way, when people try to cancel other people and succeed to varying degrees, they often, like, the canceler often comes out looking worse than the canceled. And also they often say it's not like they do you a solid, but they. But you come out. The canceled comes out better off than they would to begin with. Yeah.

[A]

I often. I think you can parlay, but that's a recent development.

[B]

That wasn't the case when like cancel culture first took off and people had not only their livelihoods, but they lives ruined.

[A]

Yeah. And you're right, I did work as an actress from time to time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But definitely not enough to warrant like an article about me getting dropped. Like that seemed a little. It felt like I was kind of collateral damage.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In a fight that wasn't really about me.

[B]

Say more.

[A]

Well, because no one cared about Nick until Tucker had him on. Right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then that kind of sparked like a snowball effect. I don't know, I just seemed like it just made sense. Of course.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, and the guy like took that as his opportunity to strike, even though he'd been sharpening his knives for years and like writing emails to your reps. My first thought when it happened was like. Like, how are you gonna get fired by people who work for you? First of all.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You don't get dropped from your agency. They like, you pay these people to find you jobs.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They're taking a cut of your income.

[A]

Yeah, but they can drop me. They don't have to represent me. I would have dropped me a while ago.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, that's the other thing. Like the like gray area or fine print. It's Like, I guess technically they're under no obligation to continue working with a person who, like, ostensibly on paper, violates their views or commitments or, quote, spreads hate in the industry, which I don't think you were doing because you were working in a parallel industry.

[A]

I mean. I mean, I don't think I was really spreading hate at all.

[B]

At all. Yeah.

[A]

Even in the lucrative world of podcasting.

[B]

Yeah. And originally, like, my feeling was that you should go on record and tell your side of the story, but I don't even know if there's a point to it, because this guy ended up coming out of it looking so bad that there's really no defending him. Like, even people who hate you and who are like, she sucks and I don't want to defend her.

[A]

It's like, we.

[B]

This guy looks like such a made.

[A]

Loser, like the most clear cut villain in the story. And because, yeah, I was kind of like, well, first I got really drunk.

[B]

When you took some clones.

[A]

Then the next day I did like a benzo, you know, blackout. Kind of just. Just gonna sleep through it. Then I kind of started to get my bearings back, and then I was like, okay. Like, this really blew up. Yeah. So I feel like I should say something.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And people kind of told me not to because they said it would go away if I didn't say anything.

[B]

But it didn't.

[A]

It kind of didn't. And also, if I do say something, it goes away also.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Eventually. Just like, there is, like, soundness to, you know, if you don't want this to be protracted, just stay quiet. Which I really didn't. I was. I found it all very, like, the, quote, shunning the public shaming aspect of it. Not just, like, if they had dropped me discreetly. Also, I've been, like, functionally blacklisted, basically, for a while, And I could have just been dropped, you know, quietly, and that would have still been kind of sad because it sucks to feel like, on a personal level, just like a band, you know, an agent to someone who, like, believes in you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's the word. That's the real. That was the most upsetting pain and betrayal. Yeah. That I had a very long relationship with my agent.

[B]

Yeah. Who I know.

[A]

Yeah. We both. Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

And who I'm friendly with.

[A]

That's crazy. Yeah. I'm grateful to him for even sticking with me for so long, but the way that all this transpired was just, like, pretty unprofessional.

[B]

Yes. Poor guy. He had enough of us roasting him and his Dog on the podcast. But I read. I read the Hollywood Reporter article, right?

[A]

And then that piece dropped, and I was like, oh, maybe I. You don't have to say anything, because this is like, what? And I knew it was this guy, and I was told that it was a contributing factor, but it wasn't the reason, which I guess is true. Ish.

[B]

Yes. But basically, you had accumulated all this.

[A]

Ill will from this one guy, and.

[B]

They finally took the bait and dropped you or whatever. But I. I read that article, and I couldn't really tell whether the reporter who wrote it agreed with the guy or his views, but even he couldn't help but make him look bad and absurd.

[A]

I think the whole article is like.

[B]

Washed in pathos for the sky.

[A]

And I think partly they were so kind of thirsty for a story.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I was giving them nothing. Right. And then this guy, obviously, he wants the press. He calls up Seth Abramovich or whatever, and he's like, I'm.

[B]

Calls up his cousin Hollywood Reporter.

[A]

He's like, not even. Not even his bff.

[B]

Obviously. I'm like, so sorry that this happened to you, but it's okay. I'm glad I could capitalize off of your misery. And if this is all it takes, I will continue sabotaging your career.

[A]

That's also. That's so insulting when people say that you, like, I mean, it's insulting to.

[B]

You because it's insulting to the both of us. Yeah, because it makes me look like a vile and malevolent bitch who's, like, secretly jealous of you and trying to run you off the road, and it makes you look, like, gullible, and who's just going along with puppet master Anna, who's like, dasha, we need to have Steve Bannon. Steve. Sailor Curtis Jarvin.

[A]

You need to get your Bronze Age levels away.

[B]

You're not racist enough for me.

[A]

I mean, you didn't even want to have Nick on the pod.

[B]

I know. Well, that's the funny thing.

[A]

I was begging.

[B]

It was your idea. And I think we had our first disagreement over it, and it was pretty amicable, which is why I love you. Because we're. You're easygoing and it's always chill, but, like.

[A]

Well, I played the hospital when I got out of the hospital.

[B]

Yes. But, like, I didn't even want to have this guy on, and I'm glad we did it. And I have to say, a lot of people are going to be mad at me. I liked the guy personally, and I enjoy talking to him.

[A]

You're talking about Nick Fuente.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

We're talking.

[B]

We.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And we've had just as bad people on the podcast before. The difference is that he is by far the most famous, influential, and he's also the most critical of Israel and the Jews. And I don't really have a problem with anything that he says about blacks, women, Jews, any other group. I don't think that it's that scandalous or disqualifying. And I can tell when he's joking versus when he's being serious. My issue with him historically was about the role he serves in the Zeitgeist, or whatever you want to call it, because I was worried that he was a guy who was basically driving a wedge in the right to make it easier for the left to win. And I even said that to his face, not because I wanted to grill him or give him a hard time, but because, like, I could not respect myself at the end of the day if I didn't take it up with him.

[A]

I told him I was a philos Semite. Yeah. But on that episode, actually, on the.

[B]

Whole, like, a pretty.

[A]

You agree with Nick on more stuff than I do, for sure.

[B]

Yeah. Like, and I thought it was a pretty, like, interesting and compelling conversation. And I think we got a lot out of him that most people wouldn't have. And when people say, oh, it was a softball interview, I don't necessarily think that's the case. It's just like a. We're women, so we're automatically going to be more agreeable and conciliatory in the tone we take, in the way that we communicate.

[A]

They want me to cry like Adam Friedland.

[B]

Yeah. They want. They want me to go and scold and attack him and corner him so that he's like, fuck these weird and annoying bitches. I'm being ambushed. I didn't want to do that to him. I wanted him to be able to speak his piece and let people draw their own conclusions.

[A]

You can't tell us like Trump says.

[B]

Trump said, yeah, that I was in.

[A]

A little bit of a Benzo haze.

[B]

When that happened, but I. Daddy gave everyone permission. He literally, it's okay to interview Nick Fuente.

[A]

He said, you can't tell him who to interview. Let people. Let people decide for themselves. Let people speak.

[B]

Yeah. And, yeah, like, now, you know, just today, they were sharing a new clip where he talks about how we need to destroy the GOP and replace it with, like, a left, right, populist coalition. The left has to give up immigration and the right has to give up Israel. And he's a smart guy. He's 100% right about the GOP, by the way. It's rotten and corrupt and dead in the water and beholden to the donors. But he also right about Trump. Well, but he 100% also knows that asking the left to give up immigration is like asking the GOP to give up Israel. It's, you know, a nonstop, it's a deal breaker with them. It's not happening. And he 100% knows, I think, that in any populist coalition things get pushed leftward versus rightward. And he knows that and doesn't care.

[A]

That's not always, that's not necessarily true.

[B]

I mean, I mean, more will be revealed.

[A]

Also, I saw Dinesh d' Souza saying he's finally coming out with the national socialism part of his whole project, that he is really a Nazi, that this whole populist thing is, you know, going to, he's saying like the mirror of what you're saying where he's like, it's going to make things more authoritarian. Right?

[B]

Yeah, I don't, or his aim. I mean, again, yeah, more will be, I don't know.

[A]

I don't, you know, it's just, it's not really.

[B]

But remember on that episode when I was like at the end, well, what do you say to the people who claim you're a Democratic operative? And he got kind of miffed and upset and was like, oh, come on, Anna, I don't know what you mean. You don't have to do this. We just had a nice conversation. And like, again, I really wasn't trying to like put him on the spot or make him feel bad or anything like that. But he definitely knows what I'm talking about.

[A]

Well, people accuse him of it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So he's aware that he has that reputation for sure.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It'S true.

[B]

Yeah. And so again, I like the guy personally, I'll say it. But I'm very skeptical as to what his role is within American politics moving forward. And I like, you know, he's young and talented and I hope that he is a force for good and not a force for bad.

[A]

But what about my career? And what about my career?

[B]

Okay, what about my show biz? My feeling about that is that you will triumph in the end. I told you that right away. And I feel like it's very, I mean, I think people come to you and they're like well meaning and want to comfort and console you. And it's hard to see how things will play out when it's happening to you. And of course it feels like unpleasant and overwhelming to have so many people talking about even. Even when people have your back, even when they are on your side, it. It's still kind of unpleasant to have that much exposure.

[A]

Well, it's just it. I was supposed to be in Utah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Candace Owens, take note. Maybe something to look into there. This. I wasn't even supposed to be here right now. I know. I was supposed to be working on this movie, which I was cast in also a while ago. The Fuentes have come out a while ago. I was living my damn life.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's so fun. And then. And then I was told, yeah, like we're. You don't have reps and you should hire a crisis publicist.

[B]

Yeah. And I was like, you don't have Jews, so you should hire more Jews.

[A]

Yeah. They're like, we're already taking the Jews. You. You have a way. But we're gonna get you. If you want, you can pay. You can pay this one to. I don't know. I said, I don't want a crisis publicist. I don't want a crisis.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What do you mean? Like, it was before the art and I was like, oh. And then I got a text that was like, hey, I'm writing an article for Deadline, blah, blah. And I was like, oh, my God.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And a little bit, honestly, I kind of feel like somehow Yimb's did it because I've been. Because they did it to try to demoralize and distract me because I was getting too close to uncovering major corruption at the Department of Buildings. I was going to expose on my sub stack or something. I don't know. I was gearing up. I like what they. I was making a lot of really salient points. And you should start. They had to take where you crash.

[B]

Out and make like oblique references to all the people who are trying to ruin you.

[A]

But I don't know if you believe the Hollywood Reporter. It wasn't the Yimbys was this guy.

[B]

This guy, which. Okay, by the way, I'm gonna white knight you. Here's a few facts about him. So he's like a failed actor turned a failed producer. And he's been on this like tireless years long messianic quest to get you dropped by your agency. This includes email and Instagram campaigns. I don't think they mentioned his porn, but he was in a Bang Bros. Video.

[A]

He's done. Yeah. Why? Okay, how. How are there. It's disgusting.

[B]

Multiple interchangeable fat, disheveled, Bespectacled Jewish guys who hate us and are communists so much and somehow do porn and. Or are gamers.

[A]

Wait, who else did. Flores. Not Jewish, but also similar vibe, I guess.

[B]

Noah Colwyn and John Gans.

[A]

They don't do. They're not pornographers, but they should. Oh, it's just the low. Like I.

[B]

The Four Horsemen of the Jew pocalypse.

[A]

It's so depressing because it's just so low.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I guess you get the haters you deserve.

[B]

He listened to years of the podcast to like presumably gather dirt on you.

[A]

Well, no, he kept emailing Gersh. They kept ignoring him. Yeah.

[B]

All the little details about the Gersh agents originally ignoring him when he started. And then they. They started to look at his stories.

[A]

He got the journalist to look at his stories.

[B]

Yes. And it's just like so pathetic. Especially like the whole. The whole pretense of it is pathetic to begin with, but the fact that this all unfolded through like casual social media interactions makes it even more pathetic.

[A]

Exactly. It's not even like a proper scandal, really. It's all kind of just this gross Internet proxy of a scandal.

[B]

Human centipede.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And like again, you know, all of this over a woman who on the last episode, which I'm sure he listened to, was bemoaning the fact that she couldn't bring herself to shell out for a $400 Dyson, who didn't even meet.

[A]

The earnings threshold for health insurance. Like, I'm more successful than he is, but that's not really saying much. Like, why are you jealous of someone that's not even that successful of an actress? And why ruin them?

[B]

Well, yeah, and there. So there's this like negative, like inverted parasocial element where he has like a fixation obsession with you, but he's also a man, not a woman. So it's not straightforward jealousy. It's also probably sexually tinged.

[A]

Well, I think he clearly has kind of like Flores, who I hate to even invoke because. But I think there's a. There's a sadomasochistic kind of like.

[B]

Yeah, he has a humiliation. Yeah, clearly.

[A]

So they go after me because then they know he hates himself.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because he hates himself. And then inevitably I take the bait and then do a little verbal humiliation. I know. They're just coming in their pants.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So you can't even give them that. You can't even strike back.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Because these perverts come in their pants.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If you talk about how they're Gross and wrong. They're abhorrent.

[B]

I know. And it's like, basically, like I told you girls, he. So essentially, he's a covert narcissist who's bitter over his lack of success and seething over your success relative to him. And the only solution he can come up with to, like, seek psychic relief is to, like, wage a jihad against you and steal something from you while, like, assuming the pretense of a moral high ground because you're a bad and bigoted and racist person who's sowing hate in the industry, which is not what the industry stands for, Even though it stands for gay race communism.

[A]

Even though he's been emailing them for years so they know what I've been up to.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Doesn't reflect so well, really on them either.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And like, they, like, caved to some, like, deadline pressure.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Once he teamed up with some journalists.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, this is like the perfect storm. But it just goes to show how even if the person that you're trying to cancel is a total piece of shit, and there have been some total pieces of shit that has been canceled, you are a much worse piece of shit if you try to cancel somebody.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because the, the effort, the energy it takes to do that to somebody can be parlayed into doing something positive for yourself and constructive for yourself. Like, why do people not realize this?

[A]

It's.

[B]

And you. You can say.

[A]

And it's not even righteous, like my crusade against the Department of Peace. Yeah.

[B]

Or like the show. But I don't think there's ever been an instance where we've meddled in outcomes.

[A]

I mean, we just don't have the executive function to do that. We can't be. I can't even, you know, I don't think I'm, like, the best, you know.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think I'm, like, relatively pure of heart. I can be a little, like, obviously, I can maybe be a little of a troll. And I. I guess I'm selfish because I place, like, my self expression above, you know. Yeah, sure. Polite, you know, polite society.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Which maybe isn't virtuous.

[B]

It's not not virtuous. It's Randian. It's Nietzschean.

[A]

It's. Yeah. But I'm not Machiavel, you know, I'm not like, scheming. I don't have some grand plot that this guy foiled. Like, I was made trying to do, like one to two indie movies a year and kind of just, you know, do my podcast. The fuck. I just, I. I don't think I'm a vic. I'm. I don't. I'm. I don't want to sound like a victim because I really don't think I'm a victim in the traditional sense.

[B]

Yeah, sure.

[A]

But I think this character is quite villainous in the story of my shunning. But this is karmically just. Yeah, whatever. Yeah, I don't really believe in karma exactly. But yeah, there's a. An energetic kind of like poison.

[B]

Yeah. Well, this is something that I really try to get across that, you know, nobody really hears because it's convenient to ignore it. But when I try to, like, defend myself or I try to defend us against, like, bad faith smears, it's not primarily because I'm mad and feel like the victim, though. When people were replying to you and being like, oh, no, you mad? It's like, yeah, you should be. Why wouldn't you be mad? That's the normal, natural response. This is something.

[A]

Why wouldn't I be mad?

[B]

Again, leftist love to get mad at like, and meaningless bullshit and then, like, scold and lecture other people when they get mad for perfectly reasonable reasons.

[A]

Yeah, like they're mad as hell.

[B]

Their livelihood being threatened or crackheads infesting their playgrounds and so on and so forth. But even that aside, what I'm trying to, like, telegraph to people is it's. It's not about me or you or any person who's, like, the quote, victim of. It's not even the woke mob, the woke one guy. It's about you. It's about them. In the immortal words of Daddy, Dimitri, how do you permit yourself to behave this way for your own sake, for your own good?

[A]

I know, I know it's scary.

[B]

And I unironically think that the world would be a better place if people focused more on themselves. Not in, like, a selfish or narcissistic way, but if they, like, worked more toward things that they wanted to accomplish their goals, their ambitions, instead of, like, doing muck raking to ruin other people's lives.

[A]

I think they just need to maybe not focus on themselves, but just scale it down and focus on, like, the people in their immediate vicinity. Yeah, their family, their friends, you know, like, you need. People ought to be living, like, sacrificially for the people in their lives and trying to do something good on a small scale instead of getting on some moral high horse about how someone's a Nazi, how, I'm a Nazi. Like, what are you talking about? Yeah, I'm not a Nazi.

[B]

That's Yeah, it's a completely like obsolete term that people wield to de person their so called opponents. It means nothing in this day and age other than bad person. I don't like usually.

[A]

And typically, I think wielded by a schizophrenic person who's detached from reality. Who's exactly the kind of person that, you know, an agency ought to like, be protecting their clients from.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And not like. Or you know, at least just kind of like dismissing because they're not credible.

[B]

I imagine that even if you're like an actor or entertainer who never speaks about politics and is totally neutral in the public forum, you get like weird parasocial freaks who like stalk and harass you. And agencies must factor this into their calculus of representation. Right.

[A]

I guess I kind of. I don't know, I got the sense that no one want. There was no one like really account. It felt like there was no like, accountability and there was some like, just like gaslighting and like obscurantism about what was like happening.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Which is partly why it was so upsetting.

[B]

Yeah. It was Kafkaesque.

[A]

I mean, it really was like, I was like, I. Because really what I got in trouble for was. Yeah. Ostensibly having nick fontes on 5 weeks ago or how long ago it was. But really it was like that I got this job.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

That was announced in Deadline.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And anytime I do anything, people get mad.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So that's what was Kafka esque about, is I was like, oh, I got the booking is what got me unwrapped, which is what I was trying to do.

[B]

Irony.

[A]

Like, I thought we were all working towards a goal of me booking, but then the booking, paradoxically was my downfall.

[B]

Yeah. I think we said this on the last pod about how like getting a college degree is supposed to ostensibly bring you closer to certain financial milestones, like having a baby and owning a home. But ironically it works to take you further from those goals. Yeah, it's like the same thing. And I'd still be with Gersha if.

[A]

I didn't book a job.

[B]

A lot of people were trying to make the case. Your haters obviously were trying to make the case that you weren't profitable for them to begin with, which is really why they dropped you. That it was a purely economic consideration that they kind of billed as a political decision or whatever. But realistically, most clients of agencies are unprofitable.

[A]

And I mean, it may it, you know. Yeah. I wasn't bringing in a lot of money for the Kirsch Corporation for sure. But then why. They are. Then why the article? Yeah, why not?

[B]

Well, I think, like, unfortunately are addicted to drama and gossip and this is probably the most exciting thing that's happened. That's crazy, people.

[A]

Yeah, that's crazy. Oh, well, whatever. Yeah.

[B]

And in a way this, like, raises your profile, but in this Pyrrhic victory.

[A]

Sense, I mean, I don't.

[B]

I don't actually.

[A]

I don't want to do like the Ariel Pink, like, you know, canceled maggot tour where I, you know.

[B]

You know what I think? I think you should have an anti Semitic meltdown Galliano.

[A]

I mean, I wish I. I don't. I don't wish, but I don't. I don't have it in me. Yeah, I'm really not like. I mean, like I said to Nick Fuentes on that very episode, like, I'm. I am kind of. I am philo Semitic. Yeah. I prefer their company. I like dealing with them.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

For the most part, it's. I. We have. I have a good relationship with the Jewish community, But. Anna, I have to tell you something. What's that? Oh.

[B]

Oh, I have to tell you something. Oh, it's Dasha. Are you a nicotine patch or a nicotine pouch girl?

[A]

Well, first off, warning. This product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical. Today's episode of Red Scare is sponsored by alp, the nicotine patch that is single handedly canceling Cancel culture.

[B]

See, I recently turned my back on smoking.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But lately certain people who control the media have been spiking my cortisol and making me want to reach for a cigarette. If you're looking for Zins, but based, look no further than alp.

[A]

Okay, I'm just gonna read it. Final. Finally a script. Finally a script that is worthy for.

[B]

Me to nicotine patch. That's winning the culture war. ALP is bold, brazen and unapologetic. It's the nicotine patch for patriots, by patriots.

[A]

You know how it goes. Some random loser decides to wage a two year crusade against you when it finally seems like they've won. Your agency has dropped you for daring to talk to someone they don't like. What? What do you mean? What's going on? Is this for real? When that happens, ALP is there because that's what ALP is. The brand built for the people, not BS corporate agendas.

[B]

ALP is for Americans, for adults and for freedom of speech.

[A]

When other brands panic and run for cover, ALP stands strong for their customers, for the people and even for the competitors panicking for their cozy pillows, this part is not Amer. America's lip pillow is there when you need it. But tell me more. But what can I. What? Our Alps haven't come in the mail yet? No full disclosure, cuz I'll never lie to you on this show because I tell the truth. Like alp. But I'm really excited for their product lineup which includes Mountain Wintergreen, Chilled Mint, Tropical Fruit, Refreshing Chill sounds nice. Sweet Nectar and spearmint. All available in 3, 6 and 9 milligram nicotine, a strength for every adult to slap. I'm not gonna say that part that sounds pornographic.

[B]

Join the only nicotine brand courageous enough to stand up against the woke up mob.

[A]

And guess what else, listeners? You can get 10% off your ALP order when you use the discount code dashA. That's D A S H A alpatch.com must be 21 years or older to purchase.

[B]

If Ruo and Lomez were as cool as us and had a smoking habit, this is the product that they would immediately indoors.

[A]

They might be slapping the lip pillow into their mouth.

[B]

I know what Lenny is getting for stocking stuffers.

[A]

I told you. Eight packs of for everyday Hanukkah. That's eight out pouches just for you little guy.

[B]

He's like mommy, is this a train set? And I'm like, no, but you can build with it. It's like Magna tiles. They're stackable. You can hide them, you can stuff them in your pockets.

[A]

I saw a video of Tucker. He has a holster. Which I hope we can be in my package.

[B]

We need the ALP garter.

[A]

Good idea.

[B]

Yeah. Really good idea. Yeah. We should be brand consultants. I mean, what are we even doing?

[A]

Anything can happen. It's a new chapter. That's our.

[B]

That's it.

[A]

That's.

[B]

That's a shout.

[A]

No, I am excited for the out pouch. I.

[B]

Me too.

[A]

Heard great things.

[B]

You can use it like Adderall.

[A]

Yeah. I think it gives you a nice cool boost.

[B]

Because I've been thinking of getting on Adderall because I hear that it makes people productive and hyper focused and that's something that I really need.

[A]

You'd be awesome on Adderall.

[B]

I could read a whole book. You could read. Write a whole essay using the ALP nicotine pouch. Yeah.

[A]

I think you'll find a hits just as good. And it's for Americans and adults. Huh? Like us.

[B]

For adult Americans.

[A]

It's for adult Americans like me. Even though I was throttled in the crib at the tender age of 34, in the infancy of my acting by.

[B]

People who don't use Alp Nicotine pouches.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

Though they could.

[A]

Anyone can use them. Unless you live in California.

[B]

If you're canceled, they won't mail them to you. I found out some Alps on his nightstand.

[A]

Oh. Oh, yeah.

[B]

He might have thought twice about waging this unfortunate campaign.

[A]

Well, I don't want to defame him because he does seem litigious, so I'm not gonna say.

[B]

Yeah, we won't say anything libelous or defamatory against him or his tribe.

[A]

I would never. But something tells me he doesn't need the help. I think he's. He's a little wound up.

[B]

Pretty medicated.

[A]

He probably should take a downer.

[B]

Tune into Rad Scare, the number one Philo Semitic podcast on the airwaves.

[A]

That's Disco Discount. Fumble. Let's see. This is why they fire me. Can't even read the lines.

[B]

Promo code. Dasha. You know how to spell that?

[A]

You guys are gonna love it.

[B]

Promo code, the Blaze.

[A]

So, yeah, everything's turning out okay. We got a good, great brand sponsorship.

[B]

I'm proud to represent elf.

[A]

I really am.

[B]

Laughs.

[A]

It's exactly the kind of thing I've been looking for.

[B]

Yeah, I am really legitimately excited to try them.

[A]

Me too. I wish I had one now. And. Because what has Marlboro Gold done for me lately?

[B]

Jack, we should do an entire podcast, like, high on elf pouches.

[A]

I think the 9 milligram is crazy. That's. You can't get Zen in 9 milligram.

[B]

I'm gonna get really stoned and then pop an alp.

[A]

Popping out and throw up.

[B]

Yeah, the norovirus is acting up.

[A]

You're not even gonna care because you're gonna be feeling so good. I'm excited to give it to my husband because, well, the smoking is one thing, but the ELF bar for me, not so great. Yeah.

[B]

Didn't you have a horrible allergic reaction to it? You canceled yourself twice. Twice, But.

[A]

And they're getting really hard to get. I have to, like, go.

[B]

They, like.

[A]

I think it's. You can't sell the flavored. I don't know what's going on with the smoke shops, but you literally have to, like, show them, you know, Or I have to tell them exactly what flavor they won't just like, you know, you have to, like. Because they think you're a cop. You have to really come in and be like, I want. And they don't even make snoo. Ice anymore, which was my favorite flavor. So I'm looking for nicotine alternatives. And this is it, folks. You know, God might close the door, but he might give you a nicotine.

[B]

Pouch.

[A]

To make you feel better.

[B]

I'm gonna bust that shit open, crush it and snort it.

[A]

Anna, no.

[B]

I'm gonna be high on alp on the F train. Menacing people for sure.

[A]

Our salvias, our PCP sponsorship, wearing like size 13 shoes. Sky's the limit. Did you see that?

[B]

Waving an umbrella around in a menacing fashion.

[A]

You see they're making fake Birkins and Belarus.

[B]

No.

[A]

A state owned purse company is making Perkins. You can buy for 400 rubles, which.

[B]

Is like, what, in USD 2?

[A]

I don't know, Nothing. But they don't even ship to the US So I'm not getting my hopes up. But that would be. That's. That would be.

[B]

I was. I was ready to pull a Marjorie Taylor Greene and turn on Trump because the tariffs hit me real hard. They removed the de minimis restriction, whatever that means. So now if you want to ship anything from Europe, like a pair of Alberto Fashioni boots, which I'd be wearing because it has a fashion, the name and the footbed is very comfortable and they're very stylish.

[A]

Hannah, please.

[B]

I can't do that.

[A]

You're leaving money on the table here. We could be.

[B]

They slap you with like an additional surcharge and it's usually pretty high, but not high enough to make you return the order, I guess.

[A]

Can you, Clara? The tariff.

[B]

Definitely.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

So. So I was spitting my wheels about that, but then I realized that actually President Trump did me a solid because he did truly cure my shopping addiction. I just shop way less now because.

[A]

I get hit with a tariff. Thank you, Mr. President.

[B]

He's so right about everything.

[A]

I mean, if I owned a business, I'd probably be not so stoked, but as a consumer.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

You know.

[B]

Bingo.

[A]

I don't really need the AliExpress perverted panties or whatever.

[B]

I know that you buy $7 and they hit you with like a 14 tariff or whatever.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, there's some come like. Well, I shop on ebay a lot. Yeah. And I've gotten some refunds because Latvia or some other random country I'm trying to buy clogs from was like, sorry, I don't know. I don't get into geopolitics too much. So. I actually forgot to look into the Marjorie Taylor.

[B]

Me too. No, actually I did. Very briefly. And so apparently she, you know, she's Like a day one ride or die Trump loyalist.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And now they're kind of trading insults and calling each other traitor because she is mad at him for not releasing the Epstein files, among other things. Maybe she's also mad at him about the H1B visa remarks and the Chinese students remarks.

[A]

She's got a principled stance because she is a political outsider who is representing her constituents. Ostensibly.

[B]

Yeah. And she's now partnering up with Ro Khanna and Thomas Massie, a Democrat and a Republican who, you know, Nick Fuentes was saying would lead this left, right populist coalition to promote the cause of the Epstein survivors at a press conference. Blah, blah, blah, blah. My impression of Marjorie Taylor Greene, not knowing much about her, is that. That she's like brave and well meaning, but kind of dumb.

[A]

You think?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Why?

[B]

I don't know. That's just like my Insta read that may or may not be accurate.

[A]

I mean, I guess I think she's a genuine populace.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So maybe she's dumb in that way. In the way the populism always kind of is because it's represents, you know.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

A popular. Yeah, it's not, you know, I think.

[B]

It was Curtis Jarvan who said. Who said what democracy really means is populism, and y' all ain't ready for that conversation. I think what populism really means is democracy, and y' all ain't ready for that conversation. You don't want people who shouldn't be voting and should not be involved in politics making nationwide decisions. That seems like a bad idea.

[A]

Well, they don't.

[B]

No, I know, but that's what they're angling for. It's probably not going to happen.

[A]

How so?

[B]

I'm speaking too soon. Well, you, you don't really want a populist coalition. Right. Because that. Well, you want.

[A]

Ideally.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And this is naive, obviously, because politicians are beholden to lots of Israeli corporate and national. National interests. But ideally they do in a representative democracy. It's not a. We don't want and won't have like a totally, like a total democracy. We have people who elect people, ideally who represent them. And then if enough people, then those people can, if there's enough shared interest among different constituencies, then that's how political power is advanced, you know, in a perfect world.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so Marjorie is like, she's taking up like an America first kind of stance in the interest of like, I don't even know where she's.

[B]

From, Wisconsin, Montana.

[A]

Or like if she's a.

[B]

She's a Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene.

[A]

Is.

[B]

She's a U.S. representative for Georgia's 14th congressional district. Since 2021. She's a congresswoman.

[A]

We do this all the time. So the Senate. There's senators in Congress. People. House, Congress, and they're all in the House of Representatives.

[B]

No.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

House of Representatives has Congress and Senate.

[B]

Wait, hold on.

[A]

Then there's the Supreme Court and there's the executive branch. The show's gonna get way better when we get the out patches because we're going to be able to focus.

[B]

The Congress consists of the Senate and the House. That's what I thought, because we looked this up on a previous episode. We should be deported. We should be deported. Stop being canceled. We should be deported. Martin and Solyon are so right. We should be deported. Get us the fuck out of here. We have no business weighing in on American politics.

[A]

I mean, I've been saying I won't go back, but we're so evil and retarded, we just. I can't retain stuff like that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which hinders me in my Machiavellian schemes to accrue power. I don't want to go back to Belarus, but now that I found out about the fake Birkin bag factory, if I can go, I can. Maybe I'll go back. Maybe I'll go back in my fake Birkin make.

[B]

What the is that? Oh, somebody's calling you.

[A]

Oh. Oh, is it the Daily Mail?

[B]

Oh, it's Tucker on the line. Hey, Tucker, we just read your.

[A]

Tucker. How many milligrams you got in right now, King? Anyway, We're not gonna say. We're not gonna.

[B]

No.

[A]

That's so funny. No. The Daily Mail has been cold calling me, and I pick up because I'm such a. I'm like, maybe it's an agent calling to sign me. Maybe it's caa. And I pick up, and it's like, this is so and so the Daily Mail aware. And I just hang up right away. I get so spooked because you're not. I learned you're not even supposed to say no comment.

[B]

Why not?

[A]

Because that. It's just then they can say. If you don't say anything, they can't say anything.

[B]

Oh, so you just hang up?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Damn. Real KGB hours.

[A]

You can't say. You can't even say nothing. I. I didn't do nothing. You just keep quiet.

[B]

Damn. Now I really am jealous because I wish the Daily Mail was calling me.

[A]

No, you don't want to talk to.

[B]

These people, these vultures. I remember there was a period of time where like the New York Post was calling me regularly, not because they were interested in me, but because they wanted the scoop on weed. Zoe.

[A]

Oh, how'd they even get your number?

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

I know how my number is out there.

[B]

How? Oh, you can't say no.

[A]

Well, the Hindu nationalists, when they doxed.

[B]

Me, I'm gonna be real with you. I think my had my number in the signature at the bottom of Gmail for the longest time because.

[A]

Sweet. Yeah, because we.

[B]

I'm like a non entity restaurant host.

[A]

We used to be wishing people would be calling. Now I get a phone call, hang up.

[B]

Yeah. And it's like some guy called like Jacob Silverman calling from the New York Post. Would you like to comment on. Naw, dog.

[A]

Well, I have this. When I was in the library at Players Club a while ago and I was drawn to. Drawn to a book about a French actress from the 19th century. It was called like Tragic Muse or something. And I. So I was like, you know, just dicking around and read it as her name was Rachel Felix.

[B]

She's beautiful.

[A]

Well, there's no pictures of her. Maybe there's like one, but there's some paintings and stuff. She was a very, she was like a very famous actress. When she died tragically young, they wanted to take pictures of her dead body. And that was part of the reasons why France now has like privacy laws. Wikipedia asked tidbit. But she was like, you know, some like strumpet stage actress who was like, she looks kind of like you or like Mrs. Mumdani. Let me show you a pic real quick.

[B]

The funny thing is that that was the beauty standard back in the day because it was considered exotic and sultry. Well, yeah, she do be looking like she's gorgeous. She sounds Jewish.

[A]

She was Jewish?

[B]

Yep. Yes, she was. She was in fact Jewish.

[A]

She was a beautiful Jewess, kind of bohemian BPDs, an early red scare girl who was like beloved on the stage, especially in comedies. But had she had like some illegitimate children with like Napoleon's nephew and shit. She was really like in the mix. And she said something that. I thought was sweet where she said, what is an actress besides the stir she makes in the world?

[B]

So true.

[A]

And in that way I'm like, I'm more of an actress than ever. In some ways I'm less of an actress than ever. But in other ways I'm really just living in a long tradition of being a scandalous, a dramatic it girl. But I think that's a Good segue, actually, to Nazi, who's a bit of an actress herself.

[B]

She is. She's a crisis actress.

[A]

She's. Yeah, she's certainly making a stir in the world.

[B]

Well, okay, I don't know about that because I was. No, well, I was thinking about like your scandal in reference to her scandal. And whereas I think that your scandal.

[A]

Is.

[B]

Real, if unfortunate, I find that her scandal is somewhat fake and manufactured. Like, yes, she did ostensibly carry on emotional affairs and maybe physical affairs with these rich and powerful older men. But my suspicion is that she probably just like hired a publicist and is trying to make a career for herself at this point.

[A]

And she's has the advantages of being gorgeous. Drop dead gorgeous.

[B]

And highly intelligent.

[A]

Highly intelligent and doesn't like Trump.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, yeah, there are, of course the New York Times gonna write the glowing profile and you know, and the book. There's incentives to push the book.

[B]

Well, yeah.

[A]

American. What is it?

[B]

American kanto.

[A]

What's a kanto?

[B]

A kanto is a poetic term. It can refer to a section of a long poem, a musical term for a vocal melody, or a brand of digital asset management software.

[A]

It's probably that last one. What an interesting book for her to write.

[B]

Yes. And, you know, it sounds so, so high minded and glamorous. She's basically back in the news because about a year ago she had a scandal where she was allegedly linked to RFK Jr. Through a long winded and torrid emotional affair.

[A]

Who she was covering as a reporter.

[B]

Right.

[A]

She was let go. New York magazine.

[B]

Yes. I think Mel Gibson should make a Gone girl style movie about Olivia Nu and cast you in your comeback role.

[A]

Okay, okay, now we're talking.

[B]

Great idea. Think about it. She has. So she has like two glossy news stories. One is a profile in the New York Times and one is an excerpt from her new book in Vanity Fair. Both of them feature sexy glamour shots of her. She, like, looks like a cross between Monica Viti and Carolyn Bessette Kennedy. She's very clearly leaning into the Kennedy brand. Much like who's the girl from Real Housewives of New York who was married to Kennedy and kept the name? Or she was married to a rat as well. Carol.

[A]

Carol, okay.

[B]

The New York Times calls her a modern day version of a Hitchcock blonde.

[A]

Ooh.

[B]

And like, they're not exactly on her side, but it's in their best interest to like contribute to her self. Mythologizing.

[A]

I think they are. You know, maybe they're not.

[B]

They're doing their best to seem like detached and Critical.

[A]

I mean, the guy who wrote the profile in the Times I saw somewhere talking about how he was so enchanted with her.

[B]

Yeah, I've met her. I've gotten drinks with her.

[A]

Oh, yeah?

[B]

Yeah. Like randomly, years ago with Thomas Chatterton Williams. I think the hotel was called the Lowell or the Lowry. And I'd love to have her on.

[A]

When the book comes.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, she's open invitation. She's not too upset by our nagging.

[A]

Yeah. We're just having fun. She.

[B]

I bet she's.

[A]

I bet she's a good sport.

[B]

Yeah. A slut bag, as one of her adversaries turned friends called her. She's. Yeah. And my impression of her was that, yeah, she was. She's very beautiful and very intelligent, but you do not get the sense at all that she's like a, A femme fatale with delusions of grandeur. She seems like a, A relatively normal and well adjusted, smart, independent young woman.

[A]

She seems. Yeah.

[B]

Like.

[A]

I think she did the right. We were in the girls chat discussing whether or not she was bpd.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, it's very fun to psychoanalyze her because people are like, is she npd? Is she bpd? Is she high T? Is she a sociopath? Is she like simply a Capricorn female? Whatever.

[A]

But I don't think she is bpd.

[B]

No, no, you made a really good point. She. She implied that her parents were alcoholics and alludes to her mom being bpd. What seems to refute the idea that she's bpd, as you pointed out, is that when the scandal originally broke, she didn't crash out and sort of laid low and she like wisely bided her time and wrote this like sexy memoir with a literary pretense to it.

[A]

Yeah. And she. Because that is like, people throw, like us throw BPD around a lot.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it refers obviously to a spectrum of mostly female behavior, though increasingly male behavior as well. But real bpd, I think is so, like, scary is because it has this like total death drive, self sabotaging mechanism in it where they like can't maintain.

[B]

Yeah, that's pathetic and retarded.

[A]

Like, her love life's messy, but she's maintaining professional relationships. She's high functioning. She's not like, like a real BPD person is like burning every bridge because they can't help it. It's really sad.

[B]

Yes. And as, as Monica and Fisher King pointed out independently, she never me too'd anyone, which is, you know, relatively honorable. Yeah.

[A]

As far as in this day, in.

[B]

This day.

[A]

You'Re an adulterer, you. But if you don't. Me too. Someone you're like better than most people.

[B]

Yeah. And like the whole scandal, I think is. Is attractive and appealing because it feels very old school. It feels like something out of the 60s or the 80s.

[A]

And the Kennedy cachet gives it a nice. Of course.

[B]

And you know, she's like, she's our Dunaway character in Network. She's like a high class, high powered, high Te woman who's mostly, you know, stayed out of the limelight but is pretty well respected in her industry. She's not like an E girl or an influencer, a streamer or a substacker or any of these disreputable professions. Not a podcaster. The whole thing is very Didion esque, you know, except never in a million years could you imagine like Joan Didion disclosing the details of her private sex life. You had a really good point that you made that. I'm just gonna quote where you said it's like, you know, the classic writer chick trope. I mean, she's do the Midian thing. Great. That's how I knew you were back, because you were coming up with the good puns. But in her case, it's especially funny because her personality is clearly not discreet and meticulous, which is what people obviously like and respect Didion for.

[A]

Oh, she's been so mythologized. People basically think she was like Nazi's leaning into it so hard.

[B]

It's egregious. Yeah.

[A]

With the sunglasses, convertible, the serpent coiled in the grass. Yeah, The Santa Ana winds. Like that's. I mean, I guess a lot of people don't read even a very short book like Didion's written. But like she's got, she, if she was alive, she could copyright write about the Santa Ana. Like that's her thing.

[B]

That is her thing. Yeah. And Nazi's book, or at least the excerpt published by Vanity Fair, is set against the backdrop of the LA wildfires, which are like her Santa Ana winds. And she, she in fact directly references the Santa Ana winds at some point and it's like, you know, like, oh, like burning everything down, like revealing the barren truth people love.

[A]

I mean maybe it's, it's, you know, the LA influence too. And Didion does have a very like infectious. And the New York Times revolt said she had a copy of the Bible and the Canterbury Tales or something and that that's what she was reading while she was like writing the memoir on her phone. Probably smoking weed, honestly.

[B]

But but like, carefully angling those books on her nightstand so that reporters.

[A]

But she was clearly reading Didion. And one of the things, one of the reasons why Didian is so popular and I think, like, enduring in style and like, people ape her shit so much is because she has such an infectious way of writing and is that you do read it, you know, Idyon novel, and then you're like the. I, you know, what was I thinking? I don't know. You know, you start doing the pithy.

[B]

Like, I mean, like back when.

[A]

It's very romantic, it's very cool.

[B]

More lucid and intelligent. Before I got like, mom brain and succumbed to wet brain, I made this point that Didian is like a watershed figure. It's like the Ivan Illich argument about how, like the iatrogenic thing where, like, certain medical and technological advances have great benefits, but at some point they suffer from diminishing returns and start to make society and culture worse. And Didion suffers from this problem because she was like the first of her kind. And I think she's really misunderstood in the sense that, like, all the literary E girls who love her, she would really hate them because she's kind of like an autistic, maladjusted, male brained person.

[A]

But he has like the Eve Babbitts.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Ethos or. But with like the Didian aesthetic.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's like, it's like Babbitt's content with Diddy and filter placed on top of it to make her seem more like, rigorous and serious.

[A]

It's very smart.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The book looks great. It looks like a drone video that you put on your coffee table. And yeah, it's.

[B]

It's very. These are not the markings of a BPD person.

[A]

No BPD person goes on sub stack.

[B]

Yeah. It has a craft. Names, names, ruins everybody's lives. Ruins their they own life.

[A]

Like Ryan Lizza, who's probably more BPD than she is.

[B]

Yeah. Well, we can get to him. But she. She's kind of going for Joan Didion, but ends up like. Sounds more like Chris Krause and I love Dick in that her relationship with rfk, though it was quote, consuming, was never consummated.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So basically she decamped from the east coast to the west coast to, like, hide out and lick her wounds. She took a year to write this book in secret. This is what the New York Times reports. The title, I thought was a. Was a tad pretentious given that the book is basically smut. And again, it's like nestled in this Whole thing about the LA wildfires and the upheaval in American life and politics that that also, like, corresponds to, like, a pretty on the nose, like, burn it all down metaphor. Mm. Like after Covid and Floyd and so on and so forth. But at the end of the day, it, like, reads like feminist confessional. Like, it's a chronicle of her affairs. It's like substack journalism. It is.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. The prose is probably like, a cut above your typical, like, dime square, like, alt lit girl.

[A]

I don't think people. It's easy to rag on it because she's being kind of. Of. I don't know if it's not. Sincere isn't the word, but it is like, she's making it. She's attempting a style.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's like, a little, like, creative and elevated and people. It's easy to rag on that and be like, you know, like, people love posting a little excerpt of something.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But when you read a book, it's, like, immersive, and you're kind of, you know, you.

[B]

Well, it's like it's too stylized. Like, it reads like Dr. Seuss for adults. Because she relies very heavily on this one particular device, which is using very brief sentences, but a lot of repetition of the same term over and over again, both literally and metaphorically. And she, like, will repeat and remix it. And the repetition is great because it adds a lot of filler to the book. It's like good padding. And, you know, given the brevity of her sentences, she uses, like, a lot of words to reveal very little. Yeah, probably because there isn't that much to reveal, ultimately. Here's like, a notable passage. I would take a bullet for you. The politician capital. I said, he always said that. Please don't say that. I said, I always said that. From his mouth. The bullet. Theoretical. Launched the bullet. Possible. I did not like to think about it. About the armed man at the time. Same speech. Or the armed man who broke into his home. Or the armed men he paid to guard him from the armed men who sought to harm him while the federal government denied his pleas for protection from the security agency whose modern protocols were carved from the same bullets that cut bows from his family tree and cut the track of the American experiment. It's like, oh, the armed men, the arms dealers. Disarmament his arms. The way his arms held me down in bed. The way my arms moved up and down when I was stroking his cock. And it's like, literally, the worms in his brain. The worms he took to combat the worms in his brain. An interesting tidbit about it is that the book was set to be released at the same time as Cheryl Hines's tell all memoir.

[A]

I really feel for Cheryl Hines, the poor thing. She's been through so much. She's been ostracized from Hollywood.

[B]

Has she?

[A]

Yeah, she stood by her man because she's Maha. That's why she went on Tucker and talked about. Yeah, she was shunned.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, by, like, people she called her friends because people don't like rfk even though he's a Democrat. Yeah. I think she's so likable.

[B]

Well, people. People call her, like, a ditz and a bimbo.

[A]

Yeah, it's.

[B]

She's similar to you in a way, but she's.

[A]

Yeah, but she's actually.

[B]

Well, first of all, she's very beautiful in person. And secondly, she's very smart and with it and knows exactly what's going on. She's not at all some dumb blonde. She's just not.

[A]

No, no, no.

[B]

But like Olivia Nuzzy in that passage, I think she thinks that this makes their affair look like glamorous and dangerous, but it actually just makes them sound like blowhards. And he's like, I'd take a bullet for you. It's like, well, you can't even leave your wife for me because you know what's up? And maybe you don't like your wife that much, or you've grown tired of her, but, like, you know that she's, like, rational and dependable. You would never leave her for the type of hoe that you're having a text affair with the bullet. Theoretical that launched the bullet.

[A]

Possible.

[B]

Like, what is like, theoretical and possible or not distinct enough to place an ascent? Theoretical and possible are basically synonyms. Not quite.

[A]

But yeah. And there is. I. I just happen to have read Play it as it Lays a bunch of times. It's one of my favorite books because. Well, it's great, but it's quite short, too. Like, there's the. You know, Didion is great. Do the short chapter, you know, but there's a lot of, like, similar, like the reform frame of, like, I don't think about it or like, it's. Yeah, it's very, like, interior. And it is literally like the same. Like, reading the nuzzy excerpt was crazy because I was like, this is. There's so many parts of it that just correspond directly to Joan. To play it as it lays.

[B]

I'm gonna read it because I'm. Now that I have I'm armed with my alp pouches. I might have more of an attention span to get through a whole ass book.

[A]

It's a real. It's a novella, really. It's really a quick one.

[B]

And it was made into a rather bad movie, apparently.

[A]

No, I've never even tried to kind of watch the movie, because I don't. The boy doesn't really need.

[B]

That whole passage reminded me of the time that Moldovan was like, I'll take a bullet for you girls. And I was like, no, you wouldn't.

[A]

That was sweet of him.

[B]

I think he said, like, maybe in the arm or something. He's the Chris Burden of our podcast.

[A]

Well, there's. Not to get old who. Not to overburden the listeners with too many literary references, but in the Brothers Karamazov, there's a great part. I think it's in one of, like, the monastery chapters, where probably like, maybe Father Zosimo, maybe someone says that it's easy to die for something. It's easy to say that you would die for something. And it's easy also just to, like, you know, give up your life or something. But it's harder to live for something and, like, endure.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And put in the work of, like, living every day.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In service of something bigger than yourself. Well, yeah, like, dying is the easy part. It's the living that's hard. So, like, taking a bullet for me isn't a sweet thing to say, but are you. I'd rather he. You know, it'd be more romantic if he said, like, I would show up.

[B]

Leave my wife, and show up for you every day after promising you that we were gonna have a baby together. And I guess her conceit is that him making this utterance unlocked a karmic chain of events that led to her having to take a metaphorical bullet for him as an object of scrutiny and a woman scorned, which is how I.

[A]

Thought she was talking about Butler.

[B]

No, I think she was talking about her affair with RFK Jr and how it snowballed into a national scandal.

[A]

Let me. They make it so hard. I pay for Vanity Fair. They make it impossible to even log in. You know, it's like, I gotta go in my email, memorize six numbers. I don't have the out patches yet, so I can't retain the information, but do you have it pulled up?

[B]

No. No.

[A]

Okay, let me find it. Sorry.

[B]

Did you find it?

[A]

Cuz I think it's even. Well, now I have to sign in. Blah, blah, blah.

[B]

Which passage are you looking for where.

[A]

She says the part about the bullet?

[B]

Oh, yeah. Well, I just read it.

[A]

But doesn't she say that it. The bullet in Butler?

[B]

Well, she goes into that, and then she. There's another paragraph where she talks about how she basically asked for it by placing a loaded gun on her nightstand. This is all metaphoric. And then she launches into another paragraph where she.

[A]

I thought the gun was real.

[B]

She talks about how, like, gun violence is the number one cause of death in America and gives, like, a statistical breakdown of all the murders, suicides, accidents.

[A]

Right, right, right. It began when I loaded a gun and set it on my nightstand. I loaded a gun in Volcanoes National Park. No cell reception except just over there at the top of the slope of a rock for a few seconds. Long enough for the veil of paradise to be pierced by the bullet. Literal. That had flown in Butler right at the President's head. The politician left the Midwest for the East Coast.

[B]

Yeah. So this is like, all a device to connect her personal experience with national events.

[A]

Right. I didn't even pick up on her taking the bullet.

[B]

And natural events. Yeah, I didn't even pick up on that.

[A]

I thought it was all a kind of like a veiled way of getting to the Butler, Pennsylvania.

[B]

No.

[A]

Assassination attempt.

[B]

No.

[A]

Maybe I'm not smart enough to know.

[B]

I feel like the Butler, Pennsylvania assassination attempt is a. Is a means of.

[A]

It's a device.

[B]

It's a device for her to talk about her personal life. This kind of thing. On the coast, the street lights and the traffic lights and the lights and the big windows of the big houses turn to black. It's like, you know, faux plainness and simplicity. Clearly a lot of thought went into this prose. A politician's greatest trick is to convince you that he is not one. And what is a politician? Any man who wants to be loved more than other men. And through his pursuit reveals why he cannot love himself. Like all men, but more so. He was a hunter in a literal sense. He used not a bullet, but a bird. It was not about a chase.

[A]

Falcon. The falcon.

[B]

Logic and a skill that amounted to a test of his self mastery. He was the mouse and the architect of his maze. The giver of his own pleasure and torment. He desired and he desired. Desiring. He desired. Being desired. He desired, desire itself. I understood this just as I came to understand the rage of his kinks and complexes and how they fit within what I thought I understood of his soul.

[A]

He's like Pinhead from Hellraiser, where he likes pleasure and pain and then she.

[B]

Yeah, it's like, okay, yeah, like. And like. Yeah. As tempting as it is to like psychoanalyze her, it's like. Yeah. You know, my read on her is that she probably has a sense of herself. Yeah. As like, special and sexually powerful, which is not an accurate tbh.

[A]

Well, you should listen to her song.

[B]

No, I know that she tried to launch a pop career as a 17 year old called Jail Bait.

[A]

Yeah. It's good.

[B]

She gets off, obviously, on the fantasy of having power over rich and powerful older men. And I was thinking about what makes somebody special and sexually powerful. And. Yeah. There's some innate initial combination of looks and charisma. Right. Obviously you have to have that to begin with, which she has. But really what it comes down to at the end of the day is like having enough data to affirm your suspicions about yourself and, you know, adjusting your behavior.

[A]

Right. She's not delusional doing it.

[B]

Yeah. Like, she's drawn to a certain set of people and behaviors that play into her self image. And she's been pretty successful in convincing others about how she'd like to be seen.

[A]

Robert Greene, Artist Seduction maybe you people, they got a void inside them. You convince them you can fill it. You're in.

[B]

Yep. You know, the big question I think people are asking is like, oh, is she motivated mainly by like, professional gain or sexual conquest? And it's hard to say, but, you know, as I said to you girls, like, having affairs with rich and powerful older men can be flattering, but it's not necessarily primarily sexually flattering because, like, to give the classic example, like, if you've ever had like the idea of seducing your college professor.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

You realize that the reality is much more mundane and depressing because when you walk into his, like, office or study, you're immediately hit with the old man smell and you're like, wait a minute. And when women say they want an older man, they're talking about a man who's like five to 15 years older, not 30 to 40 years older.

[A]

So, I mean, I have. There's a. I have like a kind of a. A class reduction. I'm gonna throw a little class analysis on it real quick because I relate to Nazi in a way because I'm also super beautiful. And some have said no because, yeah, her. Yeah. Her mom was like a catalog model. Her dad was a sanitation worker or so, you know, I don't. But I believe that, you know, I don't think she comes from means. And for a lot of women who are serial Monogamists or, you know, intrigue addicts.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Adulterers. Kind of like with. They have that disposition in part as like a means of like, surviving. Like, he thought.

[B]

What's his name? Olbermann.

[A]

Yeah. Like, she got her bag.

[B]

Yes. And I don't like something about judge her or hold her in contempt.

[A]

No, not at all the type of.

[B]

Woman who gets her bag. I'm saying ain't nothing wrong with that. There's less of a moral judgment involved from, like, other people who are like, oh, you're like a slut and a. And more about what. Not. Not even what it says about you, but how it affects your life.

[A]

I'm not making a moral judgment at all. I'm saying, like, there is like a pragmatism to that kind of female strategy. Yeah.

[B]

But I think part. I don't think it's an older survival. Yeah.

[A]

In addition to giving you, like, kind of validation, can also give you, like, material. Material benefits, resources, opportunities. They like, there are just like, very clear cut.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Materialistic advantages to becoming entangled with men who are older and powerful.

[B]

But like, I think part of the fantasy is the pragmatic aspect. Like feeling yourself to be a capable and competent seductress. Like, that's what you get off on. It's not the sex. Well, because ain't nobody really having sex with older men.

[A]

Some people.

[B]

Some people do, but come on, if. If you were like, really, like, whatever, like a horny, high T vitalist female, you.

[A]

No, I. Yeah. I don't think she's a nymph.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

She's a sex crazed nympho who, like, can't get enough of like a geriatric dick. But I think for a lot of people, it's not about the. Most people. Maybe all people, if you really want to get. It's not about the sex.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's like that Jijeki and Laconian thing about how everyone's just kind of like a fantasy projection for someone. Yeah. And no one's really, like, having sex with anybody.

[B]

Andy Warhol. Romance is finding the fantasy and people who don't have it. Wow. Good. Yeah.

[A]

Jail Babe by Livy.

[B]

She should have stuck to music.

[A]

Song of the Song of the winter.

[B]

A white girl winter.

[A]

It's a white girl winter.

[B]

White girl crash out winter. No, I. By all accounts, I actually am not super familiar with Olivia Nessie's journalism, but by all accounts, she was a competent and respected reporter who broke a lot of stories, got a lot of scoops, and you know, she. She wrote a profile of Joe Biden's increasing frailty and senility. So she wasn't like, a total, like, lib tarred pawn.

[A]

No.

[B]

Suffering from, like, Trump derangement syndrome. And I don't even think that she's, like, so invested in toeing the line of Trump is, like, bad orange Cheeto man. She's called him like a monster.

[A]

That was just the frame kind of in the New York Times. Yeah, it's in. It's not just a salacious memoir about her sex saying RFK Jr. It's all an. In the whole. It's a whole indictment of MAGA ascendant or whatever, which I don't think she.

[B]

Really cares about Trump. She's. She wrote the unflattering article about Biden because she didn't want to fuck him, and she turned on Trump because she couldn't successfully seduce him.

[A]

Well, she had a good line in that. In the profile where she said he was so unwell that a sex scandal would have been good for him.

[B]

I love that. Yeah, it would have make.

[A]

Made him seem a little more cogent.

[B]

Yes. Oh, here's another passage. What I felt was that the country had snaked its hand up my skirt. What I felt was that I had been lanced by the teeth of a trap set by a man who could not let me go. That as I tried to free myself, the man for whom I worked had run off with the key to the padlock. That the contradiction in terms, the man I trusted the most, the politician, had walked by the scene whistling. And when he saw me there, a mob on the horizon moving closer, he reached out to me, not to lift me by my feet, but to pin me down. Ooh, sexy. To drive the teeth of the trap deeper into my flesh, to hike my skirt higher, to wave the mob over, to look, to invite the country to lay its hands on me. There's that one go on screen cap that's been circulating about sexualizing my typewriter.

[A]

Stop lifting my skirt so high.

[B]

Mr. President. Mr. Nephew of the President. What was I gonna say? No, it's fine. It wasn't that important. Something about her hot, wet, whatever.

[A]

I mean, it's clear with, like, older tweets of hers resurfacing that she's used her sexual wiles to get ahead, which she should. Very fair game.

[B]

Yeah, sure. But interestingly, I thought that she's. She was at her best when she wasn't writing about her own personal life. Like, she had this part about the Gemini nation under a Gemini Ruler. Yeah, which sounds really good. And then she had another point about how denier and truther are two of the biggest meme words today, and they both deal with the inability to vet truth claims, which is very observant and true, for sure. So she's not like a dud or a failure as a reporter and observer. This part was much more interesting than the parts about her love life. It was very Mark Fisher or Nick Land. Vast interconnectedness and mass overstimulation have given way to individual isolation and nihilistic boredom so total that it all but invited the ascendant mob mentality, politics of comic relief and sadistic catharsis. So true. Queen.

[A]

She's. She's a good writer. I'm not. She's not a. I mean, I'm being extremely charitable because I know if I, like, shot some didion in my veins and sat down and wrote a book, you know, and was like, isolated.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'd probably come out with some people would say was like, cringe.

[B]

And it was probably pretty easy to write that book. It probably flowed.

[A]

She said she wrote on her phone.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Very cool.

[B]

But she definitely did give, like, the prose, the style. Some thought. The thing with the sexual intrigue is that in reality, you know, that all of the stuff is less like Sleeping with the Enemy and more the Kids in the hall, the Affair sketch where they're, like, slapping their flesh and like, gripping their tummies in the mirror. That's how it goes with everyone, no matter how, like, sexy or rich or powerful.

[A]

Maybe she is an intrigue addict.

[B]

Probably. Yeah.

[A]

She probably can't help the will we or won't we kind of routine.

[B]

Yeah. I think she's, like, attracted to herself to. To the image of herself as a femme fatale because it makes her feel powerful and in control.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which is actually, like, in the grand scheme of things, pretty understandable and forgivable.

[A]

Yeah. Relatable.

[B]

Yeah. And you can't really be mad at that there, I guess. Like.

[A]

What was it?

[B]

Yeah. The one thing that I was curious about is whether this book would. Will have commercial success because, you know, thinking.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Well, on. On the one hand, people love reading smut, but on the other hand, you could read smut for free. But also, like, industry people love to read smut but feel high minded about it, which is why there's always like, a new story every other week in the New York Times or the New Yorker about, like, someone getting divorced. Yeah. Being in an open relationship and polyamory. Whatever. Yeah.

[A]

That I think that will lend to the success of the book. And then also, she's definitely gonna sell the right. Like, it's. Yeah, she's probably already sold the rights.

[B]

Yeah. And I, like, I could see this becoming a movie, like, for real.

[A]

100. Yeah.

[B]

Like, why not?

[A]

I'm positive.

[B]

My thing is, like, having sex with RFK Jr. Is like, he has that croaky voice from eating too much. And, you know, it doesn't sound that great when he comes.

[A]

He's like, wow.

[B]

But she didn't.

[A]

Yeah, she didn't have sex with him. And as you pointed out, it's not really about the sex. It's about the Kennedy. You know, if she had had sex with him, I think the erotic element would be that you're having sex with a Kennedy.

[B]

I. I really have a love hate relationship with the Irish because on the one hand, I think that they're, like, both funnier and more authentic than the Jews, which no one will admit, but it's kind of true. But on the other hand, they are, like a nation of COVID narcissists. They're, like, perennially, like, aggrieved and mediocre.

[A]

Which is they're petty.

[B]

Leads them to, like, the national disease of alcoholism. They're all alcoholics who suffer, like, seemingly supernatural, tragic twists of fate just because they were, like, drunk and they, like, fell into a ditch or, like, crashed into something.

[A]

Well, that's very Russian.

[B]

I know, I know, I know. I love the Irish because they, like, remind me of the Russians.

[A]

I was talking to a friend of mine who is. His. Is. His family is, like, from Ireland. And he was telling me. Yeah. About how his dad and his uncle have some, like, long standing feud about some inheritance. And they like. But his. His brother, like, bought a property very close to his dad's house in Ireland. And they like. And I'm like, that's like, like peasant. Like, like they're still on that. Like, that's crazy.

[B]

Yeah, well, and there's a big distinction between, like, Irish Americans and Irish Irish and that, like, actual Irish people. I've had the pleasure of knowing a few of them throughout my life, are somewhat strict and Catholic and humorless on the surface, but actually have, like, a very dark, tricksterish sense of humor.

[A]

I don't know many properly Irish people, actually, but I have a good impression of them. And Irish Americans as well. Yeah, I mean, they're just kind of ubiquitous. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

I mean, they're so ubiquitous it's almost not worth pointing out.

[A]

And I even forget that the Kennedys Are kind of Irish, honestly. Yeah, I know. Or Irish American. But, you know, Jack Schlossberg.

[B]

Yeah. Has the misfortune of being both an Irish and a Jewish.

[A]

Loving it.

[B]

The worst type of mischling.

[A]

Reptic Gersh. But whatever. Yeah, whatever. Happy for him. Oh, well. Okay, I want to circle. I want. I have a Didian quote.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

That is from, like, an interview she gave to the Paris Review that has stuck with me.

[B]

Just.

[A]

It's very apropos of our whole discussion, but she says, I wrote stories from the time I was a little girl, but I didn't want to be a writer. I wanted to be an actress. I didn't realize then that it's the same impulse. It's make believe, it's performance. The only difference being that a writer can do it all alone. I was struck a few years ago when a friend of ours, an actress, was having dinner here with us and a couple of other writers. It suddenly occurred to me that she was the only person in the room who couldn't plan what she was going to do. She had to wait for someone to ask her, which is a strange way to live. So true. Queen. But I thought of it. Nazi very much feels like a.

[B]

Wood. Like a wood. Yeah. Well, she wanted to be a pop star. Right. So, you know, by some fluke, like some arbitrary twist of fate, she chose music rather than Hollywood. But.

[A]

But same. But the impulse and that, like writing. I. I always thought it was interesting that Didion kind of even revealed this. Yeah. Because it is. I don't think that's true of male writers that they like, would be actors. But I do think a lot of female writers. Nazi A prime. A good example is someone who, like, uses her writing in the way that an actress would use her craft. Her craft? Yeah.

[B]

Well, she wants to, like, kind of inflict herself on the world.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which sounds like damning and critical, but I don't mean it in such a way. It's just like you. You yourself, like. I think every woman at the end of the day has a pretty good and accurate grasp of where she stands in the hierarchy and, like, knows how to wield her sexual power.

[A]

I don't know if that's true. We were just talking about Hoeflation on the last step. A lot of women have no idea. And actually are kind of like frigid and weird.

[B]

Yeah. Maybe modern women. Yeah. Because they're, like, divorced from their instincts.

[A]

But, like, are archetypal women.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Woman. Yeah. The N word of the world. Yeah. I understand what you're saying. But I think most. When contemporary women are not like Olivia Nuzzy. Yeah.

[B]

What I'm saying about Olivia Nazi is like a positive thing. Like, I think her. Her view of herself is like, jail bait. Yeah. Beautiful and intelligent and special. Is not exactly unfounded. She has a reason to believe that about herself.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

She's not delusional there.

[A]

And a lot of people who aren't as successful as Olivia Nuzzy or other, like, kind of glamorous women, I think people rest on this. Kind of people who think. A lot of people think they're special and they think someone's gonna see them.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's like part of the actress fantasy. And why, like, the female writer kind of takes control of her own destiny and.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But is acting on the same impulse. But an actress does wait. Like, as Didian says, like, some. They're waiting for someone to see them.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And to tell them they're special and to kind of like, the fantasy is that then they'll be catapulted into kind of like a glamorous life. But the truth is that doesn't even happen to actresses. They have to take the initiative to advocate for themselves and inflict themselves on the world.

[B]

And they. Well, they just, like, in a pragmatic sense, they have to do embarrassing and undignified things like self tape and write emails and things that no woman really wants to do. At the end of the day, women in general want to make it seem like their beauty and power is effortless when it's really not. You do put some effort into it, but it. It's very, like, intangible and private. Not anymore. Because everybody does, like, get ready with me. Yeah. Yeah. Which is horrible.

[A]

But they always. I mean, there's some girls who kind of don't look good before or after. The ones who are popular.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Look pretty good before they.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, they seem like they've already done a lot of getting ready to do the get ready with me tutorial.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. Which.

[A]

No shade, you know, whatever. I. I'm enjoying it.

[B]

Well, I enjoy Olivia Nuzzy because she's done this in a fairly discreet way. You know what I find, like, annoying about her at the end of the day? My one criticism is that, you know, she. She's sort of playing dumb and pretending that she never wanted any of this. And like I said, I'll grant that the actual experience of being, like, a main character in this sex scandal was actually, like, uncanny and unwelcome, to use her own words. But she got what she wanted at the end of the day. Yes. And it's like, this is, like, the whole plot of Hanicki the Piano Teacher, right, where this woman wants to engage in this, like, dark and kinky relationship with this much younger man, and then he ends up beating her up and raping her, and she's, like, left, like, horrified and bleeding on the floor of her, like, mother's dressing room or whatever, because she got what she wanted but didn't really bargain for it.

[A]

Death drive, baby.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You always want it.

[B]

Yeah. And there's, like, this point in the excerpt where she rhetorically acknowledges that she asked for it. She even says this herself. But it is almost like a sympathy plea for readers to detect that she didn't actually want any of this, which is false.

[A]

Yeah, It's a kind of, like, poetic ambivalence. It reminds me of the. I think it's in the Ride by Lana Del Rey music video monologue where she says, you know, she said I was a singer. Not a very popular one. And then she says, like. And it's. The Ride is about the narrative in the video, at least, and sort of the song is about how she's hanging out these bikers. You know, she's chosen to be kind of, like, a runaway who lives amongst, like, the drifters and stuff. And she says in that monologue, like, I'd be lying if I said this wasn't what I wanted.

[B]

Yeah. It's like she's Anne Hathaway in Havoc, a film I recently watched.

[A]

I'm so happy you watched Havoc. I knew you would. I was like, anna's gonna love this movie.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Isn't it awesome?

[B]

And she's, like, a girl who's, like, too pretty and too smart for her own good, who brings all this, like, horrible stuff upon herself.

[A]

I know. Bijou Phillips. Fantastic.

[B]

I know.

[A]

I know, my love well.

[B]

And this brings me back to, like, a thing that I said on the podcast maybe in, like, 2018 or 2019, which is that people conflate asking for it with deserving it. In the case of, like, this was, like, the MeToo era. So we were talking about, like, rape and sexual assault. Women are always asking for it. Does it mean that they deserve it? But they really are.

[A]

Sometimes they're not.

[B]

Well, I think you actually weren't asking for it.

[A]

No, I probably was. I knew what I was.

[B]

I mean, well, yeah, but, like, not in the way that it happened. That was unfair and unfortunate the way, for sure.

[A]

But I'd be lying if I said, you know, I. It's not like I didn't know that I was, like, getting away with something I did.

[B]

Well, yeah. It's not.

[A]

And I was.

[B]

I didn't know that you were being, like, controversial and provocative. Sure. That's what we do on this podcast.

[A]

Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

[B]

We get paid to do it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

People like it and they. They love to hate it.

[A]

I guess maybe part of me did think I'd just get away with it. Definitely. So, yeah, it's not that I was asking. I. In my case, I wasn't asking for it, but I did deserve it. But I'm. I mean, in the case of being raped.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Of course, sometimes you're just jogging or. Of course, Dr. Melson.

[B]

Sometimes they're just. Exactly.

[A]

Sometimes you're just a backpacker and free launch.

[B]

Yeah, you're. You're a tourist on safari and some poop exposes himself to you and it becomes like, a viral thing. No, I'm not talking about, like, actual.

[A]

Sex crime, but, like, anytime one makes a stir in the world, you know, sometimes the ripples are out of your control.

[B]

But this is like, what I mean when I quote Nick Land and say that, like, narcissism is not a moral category, but a epistemological one, because people are, like, really envious of those who they deem to be grandiose narcissists, those who have the will and the vision and the confidence to inflict themselves upon the world. I really value and admire those type of people because they have more courage than most and they are constantly being, like, cocked and brow beaten by covert narcissists who wish they had that power but feel, like, curbed by social pressure and have to pretend that they're. That they're more principled and moral than others.

[A]

They're just cowards.

[B]

Yeah. When they're just cowards at the end of the day. Yeah.

[A]

Damn, I've got a lot of quotes. Just. Did I have a out pouch earlier or something because my mind's working so good. Spinoza says, blessed are the week. Who. I'm gonna butcher it now. But it's something about, like, who. Who think they're good because they have no claws.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like, it's easy to be. To feel good about yourself when you're ineffective and don't do anything.

[B]

So.

[A]

Yeah, it's easy to take the.

[B]

Yeah, it's easy to moral high. Could it be me? I wouldn't say. There's nothing. I would.

[A]

I would never.

[B]

I wouldn't perform.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I wouldn't do that.

[A]

I wouldn't Sex star of K Junior. It's like maybe you would. Maybe if a different thing. Maybe if your life shook out differently and you had better caricature, you'd be willing to take a chance in this life. I'm gonna write a obscure memoir about the agent. It's not erotic at all. It's just about my first petty betrayals at my mid tier agency. I say, the agent calls me. I don't know.

[B]

You fucking bitch. What have you done?

[A]

He says, your actions have consequences. I say, I know. I say, I loaded the gun. I know because I loaded the gun.

[B]

Cease your inquiries for they are fruitless. Yeah.

[A]

Blah, blah, blah. We can wrap it up. I just. I will say I think there is a little bit of nominal determinism strikes again with the show being called Red scare.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which McCarthyism cancel. Kind of the original cancel culture. Now I'm a victim. It's. But it's way worse than McCarthyism.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which I don't write when people have to say that McCarthy and was. It was actually good because they hate communists. And like, I. Not a fan of communists myself, but I don't actually think McCarthyism was good. And even though I'm a big fan of Elliot Kazan, I do think he's a rat and did a very disreputable thing.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. I think it was good for me personally because I'm a big fan of Joseph Lassie who was a known communist driven from Hollywood and exiled to London where he met Harold Pinter and made the best trilogy of films ever.

[A]

Made things work out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. But as a mechanism, I mean, I feel like I've fallen victim to a similar kind of.

[B]

Yeah. I thought you were gonna say something about Olivia Nazi's name being nominally determined.

[A]

I was talking about myself again.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But this is. I don't even have a proper trial. I just got one. Weird guy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So much more undignified.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They're not gonna. This isn't gonna get a nice word for what it was called.

[B]

You know. Yeah.

[A]

And when they told me not to talk about it, which was good counsel. And I think mostly I basically won't.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I was like, I. And then they. If you don't. They. I was told if you don't talk about it, it'll go away.

[B]

But I was like.

[A]

But it doesn't. Even if it goes away. Which it will. It doesn't really go away. And then it gets like. Kind of like memory hold and convoluted.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then the narrative. If I don't say Nothing. Then the narrative is just like, you know, even a month from now, someone will say, oh, Dasha is not the girl who got dropped from Regency for being a Nazi. Not even like the Nick Fuentes will.

[B]

Even like bigger platform than we do. But. Okay, whatever.

[A]

But that's what I mean is that will even become like, irrelevant. It'll just be like, oh, she did she. Isn't she bad?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Didn't she do something bad? And that's why that's. I mean, shunned or punished or whatever. Like, no one girl.

[B]

That's why I'm perennially so mad about people being like, oh, she didn't get the COVID vaccine because she wanted to own the libs. And I'm forever trying to set the story straight, but it's like, like futile and fruitless because it doesn't matter in the end. It's irrelevant.

[A]

I know.

[B]

It's just the snail trail that you leave.

[A]

No, it takes such a, like.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Massive initiative that I don't have the wherewithal to undertake to like shift the narrative in my favor. So I just have to like, play it as it lays, you know, and like hope things kind of shake out in a just enough way or. And if that fails, I'll just pop an out pouch and relax.

[B]

Start an OnlyFans.

[A]

Should we.

[B]

Yeah, we can wrap it up.

[A]

We didn't talk about Lizzo Lazies. Oh, last time we talked about Nazi, I was related to. Also to this guy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We remarked on the similarity of their names.

[B]

Yes, Nazi and Lizza, her ex fiance. Yeah.

[A]

Ryan Lizza also wrote a kind of stylish, riveting sub stack post.

[B]

Yeah, he's like a substack girl now.

[A]

He called how I found out.

[B]

And then he had the smoking gun at the end where you think it's leading up to.

[A]

That was really good. It was really good.

[B]

Or like think he thinking he's gonna talk about RFK Jr. But it's some like, dude called Mark Sanford who's nobody's ever heard of some.

[A]

Another guy she was writing a profile about.

[B]

Yeah. And awesome. He was. You know, he. He did the thing that you just did where he was like. I was. Was told by my council that silence was advisable. But after a while, I began to realize that I had to tell my story.

[A]

Now that I can capitalize by paywalling part two of my sordid tale, I.

[B]

Think this is going to be like.

[A]

A five parter ankle biter, bro.

[B]

What did he. There was the passage where he talked about cutting down the bamboo shoots in their backyard, which was a metaphor for the thorny descent their relationship.

[A]

Uhhuh.

[B]

Yeah, he broke his silence, told his side of the story. His prose is also vaguely Didion esque. Yeah, they were supposed to write a book together about the 2020 election, but then she bypassed him and wrote a book of her own. He doesn't really come out looking that good, but neither does he.

[A]

Definitely not. He's also was a man who was like 30 years her senior or something. Maybe less.

[B]

Maybe less. Maybe 15 or 20 years.

[A]

But he also was acting way too messy for. Yeah, that kind of age gap dynamic.

[B]

And he was under the impression that they shared like a special bond because it was like, based on him like white knighting her and putting out her fires and getting her out of jams with other older men.

[A]

The most revolt. The part that gave me the shoes. The shoes was. But when he talks about cleaning up another. Yet another one of her messes.

[B]

Yeah. I'm like, you like. What are you doing? Well, there's that part.

[A]

She made a mess.

[B]

Shut up.

[A]

What kind of man are you complaining about cleaning up your fiance's mess?

[B]

And what. Yeah. Why are you willing to do this in the first place? There was a moment where he talks about like, organizing her shoe closet and her almost crying at the generosity of the deed. That's like the moment where she got the ick, clearly, and decided to not only leave him, but publicly and brazenly cheat on him all over town with other richer and more powerful men.

[A]

Babe, I got you this shoe rack.

[B]

Yeah, and put all your boots on it. No, he like, meticulously organized her shoes, which, like, as a man, you should know that it's very nice to buy a woman a gift or build something for her, but you should never be organizing her. Babe. I'm organizing all your Dyson attachments so that they don't gather dust or get hair stuck in them. That's cool. I'm leaving you, babe.

[A]

I got a work trip coming up.

[B]

I'm having sex with Michael Tracy, btw.

[A]

But I don't know if he Paywalls Part two. I'm gonna be pissed.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I might. I might tune in. I don't know. I'll probably lose interest, but I'll definitely. I'll read American Kanto. Yeah, I'm intrigued.

[B]

She's not too mad at us. She's.

[A]

I'd love open invite to have her on we. I. I think she's. If she's smart, she'll get on the winning team taking a stand against Cancel culture and courageous enough to stand up against the woke mob.

[B]

America's lip pillow. Olivia Nuuy is there when you need her.

[A]

Okay. We'll see you in hell.