Pride Loveline

Summary

Red Scare Podcast: "Pride Loveline" (June 19, 2026)

Episode Overview

In this "Pride Loveline" episode of Red Scare, hosts Anna Khachiyan and Dasha Nekrasova offer their signature bohemian, sardonic, yet unexpectedly tender advice to listeners’ love, dating, and existential quandaries—all coinciding with Pride Month. The episode is structured around voicemails from fans seeking guidance on everything from toxic situationships and age-gap relationships, to questions of forgiveness, parenthood, and how to cope after being dumped for a polycule. Anna and Dasha’s banter is sharp, self-aware, and laced with cultural critique, circling around the new cultural forms of loneliness, the impact of dating app dynamics, and the shifting meanings of femininity, codependency, and aspiration.

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Key Themes & Discussion Points

1. The "Situationship" Phenomenon

• Modern Love and Stunted Commitment: A prominent theme is the rise of the "situationship"—a term both hosts see as newly normalized but ultimately unsatisfying for those involved.

  • Dasha: "It's crazy how new that term is...naming it gave people this, like, normalized it." [01:50]
  • Anna: "And created a self reinforcing loop... sanctioned it as something." [02:31]

• Gendered Perspectives: Anna notes the pain especially for women stuck in these ambiguous relationships, pointing to both sides’ fear of rejection and vulnerability.

  • Anna: "[Situationships] are a new name for when women are dating out of their league with a guy who doesn't want to commit because he doesn’t like them that much. There’s truth to that, but I think it's two-sided." [03:10]

• Alienation and Social Dynamics: The growing disconnect and ease of “presumptive cheating” (the hypothetical potential for infidelity introduced by dating apps), and the grinding melancholy of being “stuck” in noncommittal bonds.

  • Anna: "You can just...indefinitely be cycling through situationships and suffering heartbreak over and over again... it chips away at your soul." [08:54]

2. Dating Apps, Loneliness, and Social Media’s New “Relatable” Influencer

• From Aspiration to Relatable Content: The duo discuss the cultural pivot from influencers who sell aspiration to those who sell "relatable" loneliness.

  • Anna: "There's like a huge market not just for envy but for pity, which is just the other side of the coin..." [11:38]
  • Dasha: "Maybe it's less about pity farming and more about a shift from aspirational content to relatable content." [14:28]

• Remote Work & Fertility Rates: The conversation connects social atomization, work-from-home, and lower birth rates to this “marketing of loneliness.”

3. Call-In Loveline: Audience Questions and Advice Highlights

A. On Listener Relationships & Podcast Fandom

• Red Scare as Relationship Wedge: A caller asks if two Red Scare fans can date, as his partners hate the hosts.
  • Anna: "My advice is: have you ever tried not listening to the podcast in front of your girlfriend?" [21:31]
  • Dasha: "Don't rub it in... keep it between your friends Anna and Dasha." [21:42]

B. Style & Summer 2026 Vibes

• Physical Aesthetics & Taste: Discussion on summer trends: low-rise chinos, slacker-linen looks, and shoe recs.

  • Anna: "Leaning into kind of like a slob slacker, but like linen smart... the sexy Lebowski." [24:19]

• Book Recommendations: The two share their reading habits, from Welbeck to Tarkovsky’s diaries.

C. The Toxic Situationship at 35

• Advice to Women on Non-Committal Partners:
  • Anna: "I see no downside to dipping out of a situationship—if it was meant to be more, it would have been already." [32:35]
  • Dasha: "I'd really evaluate what you're getting out of this and take stock of what you deserve." [31:40]

D. Age Gap Relationship Dilemmas

• Caller (19F, boyfriend 33M, told family he's 25):
  • Anna and Dasha downplay the drama, prioritizing honesty with family and noting such age gaps are less shocking, especially outside certain subcultures.
  • Dasha: "19 is pretty young by contemporary mores... but you shouldn’t have lied to your family. That seems like the big issue." [38:48]

E. Michael Jackson Hyperfixation

• Dasha: “He’s the man in the mirror, baby.” [41:23]
• Wide-ranging appreciation for MJ’s misunderstood genius and his recent cultural reevaluation.
  • Anna: "He is like the mirror of America... been black, he's been white, he's been a man, he's been a woman..." [43:20]

F. Abusive Relationships & Cycles

• Caller describes husband ashing a cigarette on her face during a fight.
  • The hosts discuss sadomasochistic dynamics, the difficulties of breaking cycles, and the blurred lines of complicity and resilience in abusive partnerships.
  • Anna: "He has a tendency to be a sadist, and a sadist always needs a masochist." [53:54]

G. Approaching Motherhood & “Just Having a Baby Regardless”

• Caller debates waiting for Mr. Right vs. going solo/“random.”
  • Dasha: "There is nobody random that you have a baby with... whoever you have a baby with is the father of your child." [59:07]
  • Anna: "In an ideal world, you would have a baby with a person you feel deeply compatible and sexually compelled by. That has no guarantee of working out..." [59:47]

H. The Codependent Young Woman and the Older Boyfriend

• The dynamic between a 21-year-old who uproots everything for her 36-year-old boyfriend, her subsequent codependency, and the hosts’ insistence that “he should be taking on a paternal, supportive role, or else that’s a red flag.”
  • Dasha: "In an age gap relationship, he has to assume a more paternal... responsibility." [84:48]
  • Anna: "All women are codependent. At the end of the day, it comes down to how well you hide it." [83:51]

4. Notable Memes, Quotes & Tangents

• Anna: "Women put on a big show... they're also hurting inside and feel rejected..." [34:51]
• Dasha: “Comedy is so much funnier when the troupe is just men and the men cross-dress as women. It instantly makes it funnier...” [17:48]
• On beauty: "No Welbeckian woman who's like a total sin eater... there's never been a woman as ugly as the ugliest man." [47:01]
• On guilt & abortion: "None of my haters can touch me because they’ll never hate me as much as I hate myself." [70:57]

5. Faith-Gap Romance & Long-Distance Coupling

• Interleaved Callers: Two voicemails—a Belarusian-American woman and her conservative Canadian boyfriend—each ask for advice about sustaining a faith-gap or cultural-gap international romance that began via a subreddit matchmaking thread. Both are uncertain about conversion, familial expectations, and cultural compatibility.
  • Dasha: "You both seem to feel like you're compatible... why not convert if it helps solidify your foundation?" [107:46]
  • Anna: "There’s never been a better time to be hetero." [108:49]

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Timestamps for Major Segments

| Timestamp | Topic | |---|---| | 00:30 | Pride Month, Show Formatting Quirks | | 01:47 | Situationships: Naming, Normalization, and Effects | | 08:44 | Dating Apps, Social Pressure, and the New Loneliness | | 13:51 | Loneliness Influencers, Pity vs. Envy | | 19:53 | Listener: Partner Hates Red Scare, Pod Fandom as Relationship Hazard | | 23:04 | Style, Shopping and Summer Reading Recommendations | | 29:37 | Mid-30s Situationship, Commitment and Biological Clock | | 34:34 | Age Gap Relationships, Telling Family, Lying About Boyfriend’s Age | | 41:01 | Michael Jackson: Obsession, Myth, and Redemption Narrative | | 51:45 | Extreme Couple Conflict (Cigarette Ashing on Face) | | 57:21 | “Should I Just Have a Baby With a Random” – Solo Motherhood Dilemma | | 64:03 | How Can a Guy Find a Red Scare Girlfriend? (Frogman Call) | | 66:54 | Abortion, Shame, and Forgiveness (Orthodox Christian Frame) | | 75:44 | My Fair Lady: “Can Art Hoes Be Trained for Wealthy Family?” | | 79:02 | Breakup: Ex Left for a "Cokehead Polycule" | | 81:32 | 21yo, Moved For 36yo Boyfriend—Codependency & City Living | | 94:29 | Bruised Ego, Bad Blind Date, Discord Romance Gone Wrong | | 98:20 | “Should I Date a Bi Guy?” Pride Month Paean | | 101:04/104:01 | International Faith Gap Couple—Two Perspectives | | 109:22 | Closing Notes—Wholesome Ending & Reflections |

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Tone & Notable Moments

• Anna and Dasha maintain a conversational mix of deadpan, derision, and kindness. They repeatedly subvert listener expectations with unexpectedly warm, if tough, advice.
• Dasha on breaking codependency: “All women are codependent. At the end of the day, it comes down to how well you hide it.” [83:51]
• Anna on leaving situationships: “If it was meant to be something more, it would have been already.” [32:35]
• Recurrent humor around violence, codependency, and the absurdity of modern love.
• The episode ends on the bittersweet note of a possible transnational/faith-gap romance and a gentle nudge that anyone dissatisfied with the advice should’ve sent a better question.

---

Summary & Takeaways

This episode is a wry, unvarnished chronicle of anxiety, alienation, and striving for connection in a world that ruthlessly incentivizes both isolation and performativity. The hosts continually locate small notes of hope—whether in conversion, confession, or the simple act of choosing love despite cultural, sexual, or technological odds. The message? There is no magic fix, but sincerity, humility, and risk are the only way through the contemporary labyrinth.

For listeners new and old, this “Loveline” episode captures Red Scare at its best: unsentimental, honest, slyly nurturing, and deeply perceptive about what it means to be lost (or found) in today’s romantic wilderness.

Transcript

[Caller]

We're back.

[Anna]

We're back. I said that in an extra like clocky croaky voice.

[Dasha]

We're back. Well, it's Pride.

[Anna]

Yeah, Happy Pride.

[Dasha]

Happy Pride. Visibility month. We're doing a Loveline. I guess we'll post it mid Pride.

[Anna]

Uh huh. Maybe I'll call it Pride Loveline. Because one of the hang ups I have about these episodes is that it's very hard to title them and I'm kind of autistic when it comes to like titling and formatting. So it annoys me when something is like Fall Loveline, Summer Loveline, and there's just regular Loveline or Christmas Loveliness. Repetitive. Yeah, yeah. That just that there's no parallel in the categories which you know, makes me spur out.

[Dasha]

Yeah, well that's what people pay for. That's the quality of the show. That's why it's so high. Is the attention to detail fucked up

[Anna]

the last MP3 title.

[Dasha]

That's okay. This one you're gonna get, right?

[Anna]

Yeah. But the last one was really perplexing because it was just I guess a string of numbers which I don't even know how that happened because sometimes I title them a provisional name and then we come up with the title and I add it later. Whatever. Unimportant.

[Dasha]

There's not too many gay callers. Yeah, there's some obviously, but.

[Anna]

Well, everyone's gay now, so it doesn't matter. Where does Pride go from here?

[Dasha]

Exactly.

[Anna]

We're too proud.

[Dasha]

There's, there's, you know, it was a lot of the big trend with this crop of calls that I picked up on was a lot of situationships. No one's in a relationship. Everyone's like navigating situationships. Right. Which feels like it's crazy how new that term is. Right. Even though it describes ostensibly something that's always kind of existed. But I feel like naming it gave people this, like normalized it.

[Anna]

Yeah. And amplified it.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And created like a self reinforcing loop

[Dasha]

it, like sanctioned it as something. Because prior you people were in what are now called situationships. But there was some like tension about that not being a sustainable state. And though there still isn't now that there's like terminology around it, I feel like people seem like they're like spinning their wheels more.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

And they're like, well, we're in a

[Anna]

situation

[Dasha]

so we have expectations that we can't voice and don't know how to move forward. Everyone seems like really stunted out there. It's really real tough out there.

[Anna]

I Saw a tweet that said essentially that situationships are a new name for when women are dating out of their league with a guy who doesn't want to commit because he doesn't like them that much. I think there's, there's truth to that, but I, I think it's two sided.

[Dasha]

I think women in general are probably more committal. Right.

[Caller]

Well, women.

[Anna]

Yeah. They want a label.

[Dasha]

What are we. Yeah.

[Anna]

Which is fair. Is this a podcast? It is fair. It is fair.

[Dasha]

But yeah, there's, it seems like there's just a lot of like alienation and mistrust and the gender wars wage on. Yeah.

[Anna]

I mean like look, I've been in a number of long term monogamous relationships throughout my adult life that were loving and committed.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

But it's still not the same thing as like being married and then having kids.

[Dasha]

Sure.

[Anna]

And then you get locked in this dynamic where you're, you know, in it five, seven years, you have a fur baby, you're helping each other with your careers, your roommates.

[Dasha]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Anna]

And then, then God forbid you stop having sex and then it's another year of like conscious decoupling.

[Dasha]

Yeah. I haven't been in too many situationships myself.

[Anna]

Same.

[Dasha]

Because they are different from like casual sex. It's sort of like when you have casual sex with someone enough that they exclusively that they owe you something more but you are too afraid to ask them for it.

[Anna]

Yeah. And it comes, that's what it comes down to. Because I think people of both sexes, probably more women than men, but still it's again a bipartisan problem. Yeah. Are just like understandably terrified of the rejection and disappointment that comes with putting yourself out there and having expectations and standards.

[Dasha]

And a situationship is functionally, if it goes on long enough, which they seem to, is still, is basically functionally still a relationship. Like I guess they can ghost you.

[Anna]

Right.

[Dasha]

Which would be incredibly cruel. Yeah.

[Anna]

At that point.

[Dasha]

Sure.

[Anna]

But I mean how many of these situationships are like. I would bet the vast majority of them are more or less exclusive or at least one sidedly monogamous. Right.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Versus like casual sex and dating type scenarios where you're seeing multiple people. I think which is where the tension comes in.

[Dasha]

It depends probably. But they're definitely like non committal in a real way.

[Anna]

And it's really sad because I think it comes down to one or both parties just like not liking each other enough to commit.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Because you know, when you get into a relationship it happens really quickly like in, in the span of A couple of days or weeks.

[Dasha]

Well, I think also, not to sound like a total boomer, but the apps, you know, have a lot to do with it because you're able to like, connect with people that you would never meet organically that aren't really like in your life in a real meaningful way. So then in like, you know, people couldn't do that. You couldn't just kind of like have sex with someone that like, no one knew.

[Anna]

Yeah. Yes. But there's like a new layer where it's not just cheating.

[Dasha]

Right.

[Anna]

You're also presumptively cheating. Like, I don't know how to articulate it, but.

[Dasha]

Well, it's not cheating if it's a situation.

[Anna]

That's true. But you're not just stepping out with other people. You are also like, there's, there's a hypothetical potential for you to step out with other people.

[Dasha]

But isn't there always?

[Anna]

Sure, yeah.

[Dasha]

You know, but just in the situationship, it's like you have less right to be hurt. But of course, that's not how being hurt works.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dasha]

And then I think part of the reason people are so non committal is because when they are like locked in these dynamics with Brandos, maybe one or the other party or both have kind of like low self worth. And so they, they then hold their situationship partner in low esteem as well. Yeah. So they don't want to commit to them because what kind of loser would want to be with someone like that?

[Anna]

As Artemis sings, how could you love somebody like me?

[Dasha]

So true.

[Anna]

Yeah. That was one of my favorite lines from TLP when he was describing narcissism. And it's. And he said, it's not like you can't trick somebody. You can, it's quite easy. You can do it for a number of years. They might never even know you. It's that when you do successfully trick somebody into dating you, you're like, hey, wait a minute. You're either.

[Dasha]

You're an idiot.

[Anna]

Yeah. You're either like a dupe or you're a pathological liar and a cynic. Who's gaming me

[Dasha]

projection.

[Anna]

Yeah. And. Well, I think the, the other central problem is like, as you point out now, you have unprecedented access to dating and sleeping with people from different walks of life who you wouldn't normally encounter.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And this was all accounted for back in the day because at worst, some guy would knock you up and you would have a shotgun wedding, and that was that.

[Dasha]

Mm.

[Anna]

Kind of like my parents, which is why you suppose that they weren't married. But now there's like no guardrails, no controls. So you can just like indefinitely be cycling through situationships and suffering heartbreak over and over again in a way that we're just not meant to do as humans. Because it does like.

[Dasha]

And there's no real like chip away at your soul. Exactly. And there's no like social incentive or social repercussions even. Because it's like even, you know, post sexual revolution pre apps, you know where you would go kind of to a bar, maybe you would go to the same bar as you had kind of a friend group. Maybe you'd have sex with someone, an acquaintance or like. But there was more, there was less of a chance that this person was just gonna like you over, like vanish from your life.

[Anna]

Yeah. Because there's like community pressure.

[Dasha]

Yeah. You were still even in a bigger city, like in some way it was more provincial.

[Anna]

And even if it wasn't direct to the point that your mutual friends were pressuring them to commit, it was indirect because you would have to see the same mutual friends.

[Dasha]

Exactly.

[Anna]

And so it wasn't so easy to

[Dasha]

just be like, oh, I met you on an app and you'll never see me again.

[Anna]

Yeah. This dovetails with that article you sent me about the new class of influencers who are branding loneliness. Their brand is selling loneliness.

[Dasha]

Yeah. Have you seen these?

[Anna]

No, I haven't. I had no idea this existed, but it's not surprising and I can totally imagine what it looks like.

[Dasha]

They're bleak.

[Anna]

Yeah. So it's like people going on solo dates or documenting themselves, staying in a

[Dasha]

lot of self care. Staying in.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

A lot of it's like a day in my life as a 28 year

[Anna]

old single working girl.

[Dasha]

Single working girl with no friends. And they're like, obviously some of them are sadder than others. One of them, there's like a cut article about it, but it's things that I've seen on my feed and it'd be like, you know, sometimes it'd be like that.

[Anna]

You've watched these?

[Dasha]

I've. Yeah, yeah. There's one called Drama Free Diaries. That's this like older woman. And I watched a reel of hers recently about how she was like going out for the first time in a while and she was like anxious and shaking and like her eyes are welling up with tears. It was very like. And if she was like cutting the H and M tags off, like a new outfit she bought, it was like her. Yeah, her stuff's really sad.

[Anna]

Yeah. And it turns out that there's like a huge market not just for envy but for pity, which is just the other side of the coin because they say like, you know, traditionally influencers are, are in the business of selling themselves but through selling other objects of desire like Michelin meal or Birkin bag or vacation Bali, which I was like, ain't nobody want any of those things unless you're black or Russian. Nobody's like feeding for a Birkin bag.

[Dasha]

I'd take one but you know.

[Anna]

Yeah, but now. So, yeah, they're basically selling like the dark side of human nature or whatever, which is like their singledom, childlessness, loneliness, friendlessness, whatever. And that makes sense. Just like people on the whole are more lonely because there's no kind of community or family. People are, aren't having kids, people are working remotely. Whenever that old argument debate resurfaces now about tfr, there's always people. Yeah, the fertility rate where, you know, there's always people. And I'm like sympathetic to these people. I'm one of these people myself who are like, well I don't give a. If other people do or don't have kids. It's none of my business. But it does have just like a ripple effect and we wider repercussions for society at large.

[Dasha]

Well, yeah, no one is going to have a cousin anymore. We've talked about this.

[Anna]

That are not like merely material and economic in nature. They're also like social. Psychic and social.

[Dasha]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, speaking of lonely people, should we.

[Anna]

Yeah, we can get into it. But like I, the last thing I'll say about that is like just the. You if you're like a lonely, single, friendless, childless person and you stumble upon the fact that there are actually social and financial incentives to becoming a loneliness influencer, that's a very powerful formula because through that on the, you know, best case scenario, you can actually find friends and community and perhaps a loving partner

[Dasha]

and hawk some infrared yoga mats, things

[Anna]

go well, blue light glasses. But also less charitably, the all of the incentives point to staying in that mode, that equilibrium because you have all of the perks of having like friends and a community and sexual tension with none of the demands or the responsibilities.

[Dasha]

I mean a lot of these lonely so called loneliness influencers aren't very sexy.

[Anna]

Yeah, I believe that. And also I'm sure some of them are just exaggerating their claims for clout.

[Dasha]

Maybe. I mean, I think it's less about like pity farming and more about a shift from like aspirational content to relatable Content.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Which is bad in and of itself.

[Dasha]

Yeah. Like, there's definitely more money to be made in, like, the wellness side space, you know?

[Anna]

Or, like, the unwellness.

[Dasha]

Like, I think it might be harder to get a brand sponsorship for most people aspiring to, like, make loneliness their thing, but, I mean, I want their heart so lonely.

[Anna]

I really want to be your friend. I've been butt chugging old clips of Sarcastic. Sarcastic. It's so good.

[Dasha]

I love that one.

[Anna]

I love Dave Foley so much.

[Dasha]

He's the best one of our shared. One of the few guys we both find very attractive and a male blonde, which is unusual for us both.

[Anna]

Yeah. And, like, kind of effeminate and androgynous looking.

[Dasha]

So cute.

[Anna]

But he was so beautiful when he was young. He and Peewee Herman.

[Dasha]

I love when he plays the teenager and he wears the Smith shirt. That was like. I remember because I watched Kids in the hall as a teenager, and I remember being like, that's the dreamiest guy I've ever seen.

[Anna]

Well, and, you know, he. He had a pretty, like, troubled life.

[Dasha]

He had a traumatic divorce.

[Anna]

Yeah. And the woman sued him to the ground, took his bag, and I guess she got him at the height of his earning power when he was doing the Kids in the hall, talk radio, whatever. Fun fact, he was a co star of the Young Joe Rogan.

[Dasha]

I know.

[Anna]

Yep.

[Dasha]

And, yeah, he was in a great movie, too, called the Wrong Guy, where he gets, like, framed for a crime. That's a very zany comedy that. He's quite good. And that was also in that era. And, yes, some bitch

[Anna]

took him for all he was worth. And I think he successfully countersued by rightfully claiming that he was no longer earning that much money. So I think his alimony payments to her were, like, his entire paycheck.

[Dasha]

Was he able to get some of his funds back?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Did I ever tell the story how I ran into him?

[Dasha]

No.

[Anna]

In the bathroom line at Matt Stone's house.

[Dasha]

Oh, my God. I think I was there, but I forgot.

[Anna]

And, yeah, there was some guy standing in front of me in the bathroom line, and he turned around, I was just, like, paralyzed and starstruck. I was like, oh, my God, Dave Foley. And I must have been so, like, bubbly and enthusiastic because I was legitimately,

[Dasha]

like, shaking, crying, starstruck.

[Anna]

And he, like, took pity on me and let me go first.

[Caller]

Oh.

[Dasha]

Because he wanted to get away from me.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

When we did that shoot with Heiji years ago where she made us wear those, like, wigs and prostitute costumes straight out of kids.

[Anna]

I know. Jocelyn, the French Canadian whore.

[Dasha]

They're also great.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

Especially Scott. Happy Pride. Underrated kids. I think he's often not in people's like power ranking, but he's very. He's. He's fantastic.

[Anna]

It's just crazy how he could. He could play straight and gay.

[Dasha]

I know. And a woman.

[Anna]

Everything. Yeah. Comedy is so much funnier when you just. The troupe is just men and the men like cross dress as women.

[Caller]

He's always.

[Anna]

It instantly makes it funnier because it's so absurd to see men in wigs

[Dasha]

and dresses and I mean, some like it hot.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

And then like old timey movies. Even like I was watching like the Philadelphia Story, I think it's called. Not the AIDS woman, Tom Hanks, but the Katharine Hepburn one. And just the way there's just like more violence against women is also really funny. You know, like when it's played for laughs. Like he punched that woman in the face. Somebody said during that much anymore the

[Anna]

spanking your kids discourse that this was safe. Edgy because there are so many unslopped women around. It's easy to beat your kids, but do you have the courage to beat your wife?

[Dasha]

So true. Some. Some guys have it in them.

[Anna]

Yep.

[Dasha]

To do both.

[Anna]

Shall we roll that beautiful bean footage?

[Caller]

Hey, Dasha and Anna, Long time listener to pod and that's kind of why I'm calling. I've been listening long enough that I think I've had like two and a half relationships over the point of listening to this show. And what's noteworthy is that whether it's a BPD ARCO or a trad cast capitalist, they absolutely cannot stand you when I listen. And I wonder, should two Red Scare fans ever even get together? Or is that the whole point that

they don't get it and they don't like it?

It's the vocal fry, but thanks.

[Anna]

Woman moment.

[Dasha]

Maybe the audio quality is a little bad. Maybe slot them in.

[Anna]

Yeah, I can try.

[Dasha]

It's a little.

[Caller]

I know.

[Dasha]

It's more work.

[Anna]

Yep. That's okay. I have a lot of free time.

[Dasha]

Well, I don't think it's the vocal fry. Yeah, I think, and we've discussed this before, but obviously women don't like when you listen to other women probably more than if you look at other women. So it makes sense. Their response seems healthy.

[Anna]

They kind of accept that you're low key. Ogling other women as most men always do. It's an occupational hazard of being a hetero. But. But listening to their thoughts, being persuaded by their opinions, laughing at their jokes. Is she funnier than me? But, you know, you're kind of like, damned if you do, damned if you don't with women. Because I'm guessing these girls are also Red Scare fans.

[Dasha]

Well, no, he's saying they're. They're not.

[Anna]

Or they're not.

[Dasha]

That everyone he dates is not a Red Scare fan. Okay. Despite Run being, you know, from all walks of based life. And he's saying, does. Do we think. I. I'd wager that if you did date a girl that liked Red Scare, she probably would come to resent you.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Anna]

She would come to hate us.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

So I think. I don't think sustainably, you both could,

[Anna]

like, maybe she could author an opinion piece about how she turned her back on the podcast.

[Dasha]

There's a dual part. There's two voicemails at the end that will play in tandem that kind of speak to this that I thought were cute and maybe are just, like, coordinated and I'm a total mark.

[Anna]

But they.

[Dasha]

They both. Whatever. You'll see.

[Anna]

Love when that happens. I mean, my advice to this guy is like, have you ever tried not listening to the podcast and front of your girlfriend?

[Dasha]

Yeah, I don't know.

[Anna]

Maybe keep it on the low.

[Dasha]

It can be between.

[Anna]

Don't rub it in.

[Dasha]

Hey, man, it can be between us. Keep it between your friends Anna and Dasha. You don't gotta let that know. And then you could.

[Anna]

That's cheating.

[Dasha]

If she doesn't have to hear it, then you could, like, probably maybe impress her with, like, knowledge you glean about Brandy Melville or, like, any of, like, the women's interest things that we discuss. And you could, like, metabolize it and make your girlfriend think that you're more, like, in tune and advanced.

[Anna]

You can psy up her into losing weight. If a tree listens to a podcast in the forest,

[Dasha]

does it.

[Anna]

Does it shrivel up and die? Yeah. This doesn't seem like such a hard problem. It's a pretty easy fix. Just don't broadcast or publicize your fan. Yeah.

[Dasha]

Play Rogan for your girlfriend like everyone else does.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And then she'll just, like, kind of check out.

[Dasha]

Yeah. Look out the window while you drive her somewhere.

[Anna]

Hey, babe, did you see that Eric Weinstein was on Rogan again? They're discussing the theory of Everything. Next.

[Caller]

Hey, ladies. Genetically modified Stacy here. Since you're both all over my Pinterest board, I figured I'd ask what the vibe is for summer 2026. What are you guys wearing? What have you Been buying on thredup and what are you reading this summer? Love you.

[Anna]

That's a great question because I wanted to ask you about your fit because you look so cute.

[Dasha]

Thank you.

[Anna]

Yeah, I. I've been dying to find a pair of low rise boot cut chinos. Where are those from? I can't find a pair.

[Dasha]

I got them on ebay. They're abercrombie and fetch. But I kind of need a belt for. They stretch out really fast. Yeah.

[Anna]

Yeah. Because they're 100% cotton. That's what I figured. Everybody tells me to like go on ebay or depop or thredup and just like keyword J. Crew or Abercrombie, but it's hard.

[Dasha]

I bought. I've had a lot of flops with the low rise chinos and these are a real keeper. And then I got these recently.

[Anna]

Those are really cute. They're like brown contrast stitch tassel mules with some, I guess, metallic detailing.

[Dasha]

Yeah. Also an E. B. I'm going to Spain this summer, so I got these for. It's gonna be very hot.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

So I'm leaning into of like a slob slacker. But like linen smart.

[Anna]

Yeah. The sexy Lebowski who makes those shoes. They're.

[Dasha]

These are Cole Han.

[Anna]

Oh, nice.

[Dasha]

But they're very cute. They're all beat up. They're not. I wore them walking around today and they were not. I was like, these aren't really walking around New York.

[Anna]

Yeah. Shoes. They're more like your feet get dirty. Like that AI generated photo of Jennifer Lopez in the 90s has black souls.

[Dasha]

They just brought like. They're more for like chilling at the hacienda than like really trekking around a lot.

[Anna]

Getting raped at the hostel. Yeah. What are we doing? I guess we're wearing a lot of khaki and low rise camo.

[Dasha]

Good camo haul at Brandy.

[Anna]

I'm doing the head to toe.

[Dasha]

Head to toe. Brandy Melville, real tree with some camel danskos.

[Anna]

Uhhuh. Yep.

[Dasha]

Yeah, I'm going to keep wearing danskos for sure. Thinking about getting a new pair.

[Anna]

Yep. You know what really annoyed me? I got a bunch of those waris hoffer sandals that you put me on to that are really nice and lightweight and yeah, they're super cute. Got a new batch to replace the old ones and the quality is so much worse. Dude, they feel like plastic. Yeah, it sucks. And the sizing is all janky.

[Dasha]

Cuz they like on Amazon.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

Hate to hear that.

[Anna]

Yeah. End of an era.

[Dasha]

Cuz they stretch out but they're a very cute silhouette. They're very comfortable, but they do kind of. You do have to switch them out. But that's a summer staple.

[Caller]

Always.

[Anna]

I need a summer sandal that's more formal.

[Dasha]

I need like a slight heel.

[Anna]

Yeah. Mini wedge, something.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

I don't know. It's hard.

[Dasha]

I've been trying to find ears a day.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

Kind of a good sandal.

[Anna]

Yeah. But they. Those are. They release them in a very irregular schedule and you have to kind of scour the Internet for them.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Because she gave up her storefront.

[Dasha]

Oh, damn. Yep.

[Anna]

Times are tough and so that sucks. I've been. If anybody has any tips, I've also been looking for like a cute knee high brown boot with a tiny heel that's not chunky and that's pull on.

[Dasha]

I don't like Randall or whatever. You put me onto that. Oh, yeah. That's where I got my pull ons. But they're a little pointy. They're not square toe. And I sold them.

[Anna]

Oh, I just want round, like an almond hoe. That's so hard to find because everything is so stylized. Yeah. It's either like pointy, pointy, but there. I know what you mean. Yeah.

[Dasha]

And I wore them a couple times in the winter and then was like, I don't need to.

[Anna]

Yeah. They weren't sparking joy.

[Dasha]

They weren't sparky joy. Yeah, it's.

[Anna]

It's rough.

[Dasha]

Now I'll make $17 on the real.

[Anna]

I know I saw a bunch of those when I was scouring the real real. They're really cheap now. You can get them for pennies. But it sucks. What are you reading?

[Dasha]

There's so much. No, I'd like to maybe get a nice, you know, read a big long novel. It'll take me a while. You know that I can.

[Anna]

Like a summer read Annihilation by Welbeck.

[Dasha]

Maybe Welbeck is a good Euro vibe.

[Anna]

Yeah. I'm rereading now. I'm just gonna go down the catalog.

[Dasha]

Keep reading the same book over and over. That way you don't get new thoughts. No, you do. You get new thoughts from rereading.

[Anna]

Yeah. Rereading a book is like having sex. It's a slightly new experience every time.

[Dasha]

Yeah. More to glean.

[Anna]

Even if it's the same thing.

[Dasha]

I. I've been reading like I went and saw Death of a Salesman on Broadway with Nathan Lane. And so I was reading because Elia Kazan directed the first staging of that. So I was reading the book that he wrote that also has, like, notes of his about directing. And then I'm reading, like, Tarkovsky's diaries, which I've, like, read before, but not systematically.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

And then like, Cassavetes on Cassavetes.

[Anna]

Cinephile reads.

[Dasha]

Yeah, that's what I, you know. Yeah, that's kind of what I like. But I need to. Yeah, I need to refine my travel stack. Oh, I'm gonna start reading Franny and Zoe again.

[Anna]

Oh, that's nice. Classic.

[Dasha]

Yeah, because I think about it a lot. It's really, like, stuck with me, like, much like Catcher in the Rye. So maybe I'll have a Salinger summer in my loafer slip on serotonin summer. Okay.

[Caller]

Hey. So my situationship is 36 and I'm 35. This is humiliating. I really want a baby. He said he's not ready to commit because his life is like, too crazy as a film programmer, I guess, and he has some secret he won't reveal to me. Should I give up?

Immediately.

There's something really pure and almost holy about him, by the way. Thanks. Bye.

[Anna]

Pure and holy. He sounds like a BPD monster.

[Dasha]

Interesting choice of words.

[Anna]

He's gay.

[Dasha]

You're projecting qualities onto someone you don't really know. Probably. He's a film programmer who's keeping a secret whose life is so chaotic because of all the film programming that's so popular these days. Yeah.

[Anna]

Hey, babe. Can't have procreative sex tonight. I'm going to Metrograph.

[Dasha]

I mean, I can't tell you to leave him immediately, but I'd start looking for other options. Maybe.

[Anna]

Yeah. You know, as you wisely pointed out, it is a situationship. So you're not exclusive technically, even though spiritually you may feel that way.

[Dasha]

It does seem to be the case that men are, I guess, in New York, probably more so than in other places because of the disparity in men and women. That men are more non committal.

[Anna]

Yeah. There's no incentives really for them and

[Dasha]

they don't have a biological clock like you do.

[Anna]

Well, they think they don't.

[Dasha]

They. Right.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

I mean, they kind of technically don't.

[Anna]

Theirs is much longer than yours. So you have two options. Baby trap or cheat. Maybe do both

[Dasha]

cheat and travel with someone else's baby to teach him a lesson.

[Anna]

Here's what your baby would look like if he was black or Chinese.

[Dasha]

Yeah. I'd really evaluate what you're getting out of this and, like, take stock of, you know, what you deserve.

[Anna]

It's so hard, though.

[Dasha]

I know.

[Anna]

I mean, you said on the Last episode. It was a very good point that oftentimes you'll have female friends who meet a new guy and start having sex with them, and they'll be like, he's so pure and holy. He.

[Dasha]

He.

[Anna]

He's the first guy who ever made me come. And then you're like, no, babe, you

[Dasha]

said that before about the last.

[Anna]

Yeah, so it's hard when you think you really like somebody to, like, zoom out and put things in perspective and be like, wait a second, this guy actually sucks and he's taking me for a ride.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Anna]

So I would reevaluate.

[Dasha]

Definitely. Sounds like she knows.

[Anna]

Yeah. And, you know, the. The ball's in your court. And like, there's. I. I really see no downside to dipping out of a situationship.

[Caller]

Of course.

[Anna]

Because if it was meant to be something more, it would have been already. It's not like, because he's, like, shy or afraid.

[Dasha]

Well, he's got a dark secret.

[Anna]

Yeah. He has a micro.

[Dasha]

I feel like the sex is implied with the situationship because it's the only thing tethering you to someone.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

There's like, talking stage, which is also a new term for, like, maybe dating someone. And then the situationship is when you're

[Anna]

talking stages, when you're talking forever. Indefinitely.

[Dasha]

Not maybe indefinitely, but yeah, it's early on and you're, like, texting a lot.

[Anna]

I mean, my thing with is, like, the sex can't be that good if neither of you are committing.

[Dasha]

Women are really, you know, their standards are. I know everyone.

[Anna]

That's something that are so nice about us. Yeah. They're actually. What is hypergamy? I've been seeing that word a lot.

[Dasha]

It's when you try to date to, like, a crew. Capital of all kinds. You try and date someone that, like, is the best kind of you can do materially.

[Anna]

Huh. This is another one of those things either like. Like being objectified that that is a wish expressed as an anxiety, but this time on the part of men because they have this very cynical perspective that women are evil, deceitful whores who only date men for, like, clout and capital. And that's actually not true.

[Caller]

Some.

[Dasha]

I mean, that's what, like, that's part of, like, Clavicular's thesis and what he's, like, finding to be true in his field research. But, like, those whores are, you know, whores. They're. Yeah, but a lot of women are whores.

[Anna]

That's true. I mean, it's true. I'm sure such women exist. And I'm sure they're more highly, like, tightly concentrated on the coasts, but I don't know a single woman who dates in a hypergamous manner. Women put on a big show. They make all sorts of displays.

[Dasha]

Awesome.

[Anna]

Sure. But, like, you know, they say things that are, like, cruel and hostile and dismissive because they're also, like, hurting inside and feel rejected and traumatized or they feel, like, preemptively disappointed, so they're trying to get ahead of it.

[Dasha]

Or I guess the women I do know that are, quote, hypergamous are kind of precarious and down bad materially.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dasha]

So they're, like, dating in, like, a survivalist mode. But women who have kind of any resources, I feel like, are willing to date, especially when they're younger. Especially, like a bohemian loser.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

With almost nothing to offer.

[Anna]

Those are.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

Like that chick with a dark, secret,

[Anna]

bohemian bisexual poet film bro.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Yeah, those. I guess those are. Or two options. I would just say, like, cut the cord.

[Dasha]

Because, like, that.

[Anna]

That seems like the game. Theoretically optimal solution. Because either he's gonna realize what he's missing and that he fumbled and come crawling back, or he's just gonna forget you, and then it'll be, like, patently clear that you weren't supposed to be together in the first place.

[Dasha]

I'd bet on the. On the latter.

[Anna]

But, yeah, good luck. Me too. But, like, if you want a baby, you don't realistically, like, do not have as much time as you think.

[Dasha]

And you can keep your options open.

[Anna]

You don't need to spook her because she does have some time. But just saying.

[Caller]

Hi, Dasha and Anna. So I got a new boyfriend. And, you know, it's great. He agrees with me on, like, everything. Politically, it's so nice. He's so sweet and caring and handsome. But there's one issue. So I'm 19 and he's 33, and I told my family that he's, like, 25, and my whole family thinks he's 25. So I really don't know what to do. And I really need some advice because I'm kind of screwed because at some point, they're gonna have to meet and they all think he's 25. Please, please help me.

[Anna]

Oh, my God. So passionate and dramatic.

[Dasha]

What do you think that person is? That's kind of.

[Anna]

Does your family know you're trans?

[Dasha]

That's kind of why I was like, is it a gay guy? Is it a tranny? Is it a really weird woman.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

Who's, like, a witch or something? Like, what? 19 years old? But what is going on?

[Anna]

I don't know.

[Dasha]

With.

[Anna]

I mean, just based on your voice alone, I think your family would probably be okay with whoever you bring home.

[Dasha]

They're just happy you found someone.

[Anna]

Babe, if.

[Dasha]

Okay, if it's a gay guy, I don't think they'll care. They're gonna care. And if you're. If it's a straight girl, woman, somehow

[Anna]

they'll have to come around. 25 and 33 is not that much of a huge difference.

[Dasha]

19 is pretty young by contemporary mores, I guess, to be with a man. Just a child.

[Anna]

Can you even consent?

[Dasha]

I mean, I, you know, dated men in their 30s when I was nine. Or a man who was 30 when I was 19. And my parents were, you know, liked him.

[Anna]

Oh, they're Russians.

[Caller]

I know.

[Dasha]

I don't think it's so scandalous.

[Anna]

They're like, dasha, you need to be practicing hypergamy at all times. What's wrong with you? Why are you dating bisexual poet? Okay, this is not a serious or concerning age gap at all.

[Dasha]

No, you shouldn't have lied to your family. That seems like the big issue.

[Anna]

Yeah. Currently.

[Dasha]

And maybe you can just come clean. They're probably judging again by the sound of your voice. They're probably used to being a weird

[Caller]

liar,

[Dasha]

so maybe they won't be so shocked. And you should fess up about that

[Anna]

time that you stole pills from your dad.

[Dasha]

It's also, like, they didn't say how new of a boyfriend, but he might not even meet your family.

[Anna]

Let's be real. The thing that raised the most alarm bells for me, the big red flag, was not the voice. It was how she. He was so over the top with the compliments about what a handsome and wonderful and sweet guy the boyfriend was. Which makes me think there's probably some underlying lingering doubt that has nothing to do with the fear of, like, hard launching your relationship with your family.

[Dasha]

Or it's like, brand, brand new.

[Anna]

Yeah. In which case you don't have to even tell them about it yet.

[Dasha]

I guess they already have.

[Anna]

I don't. I don't tell my mom about my boyfriends until I'm, like, nine months pregnant. Hey, mom, I found someone, and you're gonna be a grandma.

[Dasha]

Guess what? I'm. Yeah, I. He probably won't even meet your family.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

And I think if he does, you can just say, look, I lied.

[Anna]

Yeah, my bad. And he's all a little. They're probably gonna be disappointed by something. It doesn't have to be his Age.

[Dasha]

He's a little older. Yeah, but whatever.

[Anna]

Okay, Y.

[Caller]

Ladies, I hope you're having a very nice day. I just have a quick question for Dasha. Why do you love Michael Jackson? I know why I love Michael Jackson, and I'm very curious why you seem to have a hyper fixation on him. Because I currently do as well. And I'm curious. Have a great day.

[Anna]

Because she's the man in the mirror, baby.

[Dasha]

Oh. Well, a lot of people, I think, due to the Michael movie, have developed. There's a lot of content that I see about people's hyper fixations on Michael Jackson that, to me, is obviously connected to the film, but also kind of downstream. Like, many things of Epstein stuff that, like this, like, redemptive narrative that people are telling themselves about. Michael Jackson is like zoomers because he's so, like, special and unprecedented and unlike anything like, people have been, like, have access to now.

[Anna]

Yeah. And, like, cryptic and mysterious.

[Dasha]

Yeah. But same. Like, they want. He, like. Has he like, had to kind of rise in prominence as, like, a ballast to this, like, dark pedophilic cabal fixation?

[Anna]

Right. Do you perhaps relate to him as somebody who was historically misunderstood?

[Dasha]

Of course. No, definitely. Yeah. My dad also told me there were winners and losers, you know, and I'm a performer of great talent who's abused. But in just the whole. Obviously, he's a. I wouldn't say I have a hyper fixation. Yeah. I'd say, like, he's clearly like, a very compelling, morbid, beautiful, like, ever tragic. He's like. He's fantastic.

[Anna]

I thought you were gonna say trad, but he is kind of trad because he'll. He was, like, on that interview with what's his name? Bashir.

[Dasha]

Oh, that guy. That snake.

[Anna]

I really just want a baby. And his, like, tiny, molested voice.

[Dasha]

I know.

[Anna]

What's wrong with that? I just want to be. He's like everything. He's the guy. He's the. He is like the mirror of America. He's like every person in one. He's like. He's been black, he's been white, he's been a man, he's been a woman, he's been straight, he's been gay, he's been a pedophile.

[Dasha]

They don't really care about us. So good.

[Anna]

And he is.

[Dasha]

I've also. Yeah, I've been watching, like, weird, like, black guys who are into, like, sacred geometry talking about how he was, like, channeling, like, angelic frequency, and that's why the system had to, like, you know, like the conspiracies that are like proliferating around Michael but in this very innocent way are also very interesting.

[Anna]

He is beautiful, as you say, Angel,

[Dasha]

Archangel Michael. He was, he was.

[Anna]

But he was like physically beautiful at some point and then he became physically grotesque. But the most beautiful people are that, like, I was thinking about who I find, like, truly beautiful.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Like among celebs.

[Dasha]

I don't mean like physically beautiful or like, like transcendent.

[Anna]

Extremely sexy.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And it's literally the ugliest guys. It's Michelle Welbeck, Lil Wayne, Miles Davis, Michael Jackson. Michael Jackson, Peewee Herman. Because there's something so like tender and tragic about them.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

And there's so much ugliness in the world and so much pain. And I think, yeah, something about Michael is just very resonant currently. And yeah. The frequency that he was able to beam out into the world.

[Anna]

And there was like another discourse about whether men or women are more beautiful. Like in the final analysis. And we can quibble over that forever.

[Dasha]

Like, I'm going women, I. I say

[Anna]

men, but we have like, essentially, like I would say on average women are more beautiful than men. Like, you know, like I was uptown

[Dasha]

the other day is more beautiful than the average man. But best looking men are more.

[Anna]

Are the. They like. No. Even extremely. 11 out of 10 beautiful woman even compares to the sight of a beautiful man. Because I'm such a gay guy. Like, I just like gasp at the male physique and the female physique, no matter how like perfect and slim it is, it has all these like secondary sex characteristics that like Schopenhauer would balk at. And like, in the. To me, at the end of the day, like, men and women are pretty much equivalently beautiful and they diverge at the extremities. Right?

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

But one reason that in my mind men are like kind of have the edge and are slightly more beautiful than women is because men are just more capable of being extremely ugly.

[Dasha]

Well, so are women, I guess. No.

[Anna]

Yeah, but there's no. No Welbeckian woman who's like a total sin eater. Like, there are women throughout time that are like, considered extremely unattractive, like Andrea Dworkin or Sandra Bernhardt or something. But they're still. I don't know. People used to always dog on her for being like an ugly Jewish.

[Dasha]

She's got like an interesting face.

[Anna]

I think she's really the one.

[Dasha]

She's ugly.

[Anna]

Yeah. I wouldn't call her ugly either. But you know, people that are considered. But yeah, women it's like, you know, why. Why has there been no female Mozart? Because there's been no female Jack the Ripper. But there's never been a woman as ugly as the ugliest man.

[Dasha]

Tim, for me, Leticia Costa, I agree with you.

[Anna]

I mean, she's. That's another person that I can't totally agree on.

[Dasha]

I can't think of a man that looks better than her. And she's not even a waif, which is my typical pre.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

You know, but I sp. I see her. I'm like, overcome with.

[Anna]

Well, that's so true. No, I think we agree on Leticia Costa. And people are always, like, accusing me of sailors lying and preferring my type. And I actually don't prefer my type. I prefer girls who look like Leticia Costa. That's like my pinnacle of female beauty.

[Dasha]

She's incredible.

[Anna]

Like, tanned and tawny and honey colored,

[Dasha]

but with the big tits. Yeah.

[Anna]

And I think it's, like, not surprising. It's, like, totally in line that, like, straight heterose, like, heterosexual women would probably on average say that women are more beautiful than men, even though they obviously prefer having sex with and coupling with men. Because, like, again, the nature of female eroticism is being attracted to the image of the woman. And that's also the nature of male eroticism. So everyone. Like, the only people who agree with me are gay guys. Yeah, yeah.

[Dasha]

And I'm such a. Like.

[Anna]

Because I hate women.

[Dasha]

Sapiosexual, you know?

[Anna]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dasha]

That I've never really been, like. I've never really seen, like, a man's body and been, like, overcome.

[Anna]

Oh, I am all the time.

[Dasha]

Like, I don't care about, like, with the V line. None of that's ever done anything for me. A male ass couldn't be less interesting to me.

[Anna]

Well, most of them are deplorable, but

[Dasha]

even, like, a guy with a great ass, it's, like, embarrassed. I like me, like, I don't care. I'd rather look at a woman most.

[Anna]

Yeah, I understand. I think maybe I'd rather look. I'd rather a woman on, like.

[Dasha]

Yeah, my husband's very beautiful, you know?

[Anna]

No, but sometimes you see a man, he looks like the Ri. Bronzes. Like they just pulled him out of, like, the Aegean Sea or something.

[Dasha]

You're just like, never. Never encountered one.

[Anna]

And also, like, it's like the Dave Foley convo. There was something just so androgynous Fawn, like, about his beautiful.

[Dasha]

His bod.

[Anna]

I'm not making the case that Day Foley is the most beautiful man who's ever.

[Dasha]

He's not like an Adonis. He has, like, a great face and a great character, and he's so funny. It gets. You know. But, yeah, maybe I'm more like Sapphic in that way. But it's a very. It's a classic, like, Aristotelian idea that men are, like, perfect and that women cannot. Can never achieve, like, a Platonic ideal of beauty because they're always. They're like a malformed version of a man.

[Anna]

They're all derivative of. Yeah.

[Dasha]

So they'll never be. And because they, like, their bodies change and they menstruate and get pregnant, and men's bodies are, like, impermeable and smooth and hard and stuff. That. That's more like formally beautiful.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And, like, there are just a lot of men who are very beautiful when they're old, even.

[Dasha]

There's women who I think are beautiful and they are old, too. But. But, yeah, most women who are, like, hot. I wouldn't even say are, like, beautiful. They're kind of, like, vulgar.

[Anna]

Yeah. But I would say that for most people in general, male or female, I

[Dasha]

think clavicular is really beautiful. But I'm not attracted to him.

[Anna]

Well, that's the other thing. And I don't very often when you can acknowledge somebody as extremely beautiful, you don't find them, like, erotically appealing, sexually attractive, because they're kind of like a perfect platonic ideal. Yeah. And you don't want to them.

[Dasha]

No. Sorry to be cross.

[Anna]

I mean, Leticia Costa, she is amazing. Well, she also looks like a statue.

[Dasha]

She does.

[Anna]

She's statue.

[Dasha]

I don't know. She's. As much as I love Kate Moth, I think Leticia even more.

[Anna]

Kate Moss is very hot and sexy because she's kind of like. We've had this convo before. If you really scrap her for parts, like, she's kind of a pub wench.

[Dasha]

Well, at her peak, I think it's. Her beauty was very youthful.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

And she never really became, like. I mean, she's obviously still beautiful, but, like, Leticia Costa is like, a beautiful woman.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

Whereas Kate Moss was, like, an ethereal, like, girl.

[Anna]

Young girl.

[Dasha]

Yes, true.

[Anna]

But love her to death. Next.

[Caller]

Hi, ladies. I'm on my break at work. My. I have problems, but just maybe wanted to gather some insight. My husband. Ashed his cigarette on my face during an argument. The problem is not. He thinks that I behave like a sociopath when we start to argue. I think that I shut down when I'm being insulted, but he becomes violent. Am I. A unique victim of a terrible crime? Or are we both two people with many things to work on? I wonder, do you know? Do you have the answer? Thanks. So by.

[Dasha]

Interesting, I'm, like, gonna cry.

[Anna]

What?

[Dasha]

I mean, it sounds extreme, certainly, but intimacy often is. And it sounds like a very inverted gender dynamic. Like, often men become, like, stoic and shut down in conflict, and women become kind of, like, not necessarily violent, but emotionally violent. Escalate, you know?

[Anna]

Yes.

[Dasha]

And in her case, it seems. Yeah. That he's driven to, like, new heights of sadism. I mean, he didn't put the sig out on her face.

[Anna]

I know, but dashing a cigarette on your wife's face is pretty bad.

[Dasha]

That's crazy. I don't even know how you would.

[Anna]

Yeah, it just, like, dramatic and performative and unhinged.

[Dasha]

But it sounds like she has some clarity about them both being complicit in whatever cycle they found themselves in.

[Anna]

Well, it sounds like he has a tendency to be a sadist, and a sadist always needs a masochist. And it sounds like probably her shutting down and becoming a victim activates that urge in him.

[Dasha]

Well, I don't know if. I guess when she says shut down, I don't know if she's, like, cowering or if she's just kind of stuck, stonewalling, gray rocking, you know?

[Anna]

Yeah. It's hard to say.

[Dasha]

Like, maybe she's not. It sounds. She sounds resilient.

[Anna]

I mean, this is one of those things where I kind of wish she was a live caller because we could glean more information from her.

[Dasha]

Well, we're. I'm working on how to create some infrastructure for us to take live calls where we don't just get, like, mobbed

[Anna]

with, like, gripers

[Dasha]

or. Like, we had a voice when that was like, you and. Are.

[Caller]

Your.

[Dasha]

The hand you. You. Blood on your hands and our Palantir government. And I was like, shut up. Why are you calling me? So I'm. We're already on some kinks, but stay tuned for more. But maybe she could call back in. We could. We could discuss.

[Anna]

I don't even know what to say to this. Like, what do you do in this situation? She's obviously not gonna leave his ass.

[Dasha]

I don't think she should.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

You know, I think if he put a cigarette out on her face, then she.

[Anna]

That would be caused.

[Dasha]

But, like, more the. Like kind of just, like, symbolic, degrading acts that he feels driven to. I think the fact that she is cognizant of the fact that she has her own shortcomings.

[Anna]

That's a story.

[Dasha]

Means that, like, if he's. I don't know where he's at, but if he could get to a similar place, maybe they could have some understanding.

[Anna]

I wonder what the fight was about.

[Dasha]

I know he was smoking a cigarette. It seems crazy to smoke a cigarette while you're fighting. Kind of does it, because it's so relaxing.

[Anna]

They're JFK and Carolyn Bassett maxing.

[Dasha]

I've never, like. Yeah, maybe not never, but, like, angrily smoking a cigarette and arguing with someone.

[Anna]

Like, you'd have, like, I guess the only.

[Dasha]

It forces you to take these, like, pauses. Yeah. Yeah.

[Anna]

It makes you more introspective, which is probably why I do it during the podcast.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Yeah. You're either doing it because you're stressed or because you're relaxing, not because you're in the heat of an argument. That's. This is true.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

To be, like, inhaling, exhaling rather than just, like, shouting.

[Anna]

But I take it he's never hit her because she would have probably mentioned that.

[Dasha]

She says he has a tendency to get violent, but I think she would have mentioned.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

If she had been subject to more violence than the ash.

[Anna]

He's a keeper.

[Dasha]

He sounds hot. And where do you work? Sounds like there's, like, fans. I really. Yeah. I picture her in some kind of, like, factory.

[Anna]

Yeah. He was like a chud with a tribal tattoo.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

They probably have a good sex life. Maybe.

[Anna]

I hope so.

[Dasha]

If that. I mean, if you have that going for you.

[Anna]

If he's ashing a cigarette in your face, I hope he's laying the pipe.

[Dasha]

Well said.

[Caller]

Hello. This is a question about if you want to have a baby and you're, like, getting older and you don't have a partner and, like, is it better to just have a baby with a random person and try to make it work rather than wait for the perfect father type to show up and. Yeah, better to wait and have faith or to plan to do it alone and manage if you really want to not miss your chance in the mid to late birdies. What do you think?

[Dasha]

Well, this was some. There was some discourse. I saw from the. I guess it was the fluffer who got cummed in at the Ayala Gang band.

[Anna]

Oh, yeah.

[Dasha]

She was sounding off about how you

[Anna]

found a husband at the orgy, and

[Dasha]

she was saying how you have to really prioritize these procreative relationships.

[Anna]

You have to go to an orgy.

[Dasha]

She was kind of, like, very, like. It had, like, the plausible deniability of being like, just like telling the truth and being helpful. But it was this really kind of like, brutal black pill that didn't. Wasn't actually like, edifying in any way.

[Anna]

It's like her humble bragging while black pilling.

[Dasha]

Yeah. I will say that there is nobody random that you have a baby with. Yeah. Whoever you have a baby with is the father of your.

[Anna]

Yeah, that's well said.

[Dasha]

Your child.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

I mean, I guess short of like going to a sperm bank and literally, like rolling the dice, but anyone that you feel compelled to have sex with for that aim, like, there's a reason that happened and maybe it doesn't work out, but, like, no one's random. Right. Is really. I guess.

[Anna]

Yeah, I don't really.

[Dasha]

And no one's perfect either. Yep. So if you want to have a baby, have a baby with someone that you want to have sex with, who doesn't, I guess, seem completely unstable.

[Anna]

I mean, in an ideal world, you would have a baby with a person that you feel deeply compatible and sexually compelled by. And by the way, that has no guarantee of working out. People break up, get divorced all the time, and you will have the baby and you probably won't ever regret it. But that's not a path that I would advocate following, though it's going to become a more common path.

[Dasha]

But what's the alternative? Like, waiting for someone perfect also is not like.

[Anna]

But is this even really a question? Because it's not like, you know, presumably. It's not like she's waiting. She's probably out on the dating market, meeting guys and having sex. Right.

[Dasha]

Yeah,

[Anna]

but so, like, you know, anything could happen.

[Dasha]

I guess she's talking about the trap. Should she lay the trap for someone that's.

[Anna]

Well, no, you should never do that because that's going to end horribly.

[Dasha]

Maybe not.

[Anna]

I mean, it could. Yeah. It could also be like the plot of a rom com. Whatever.

[Dasha]

I mean, I Knocked Up. That's what that movie's about.

[Anna]

That's the one with the girl who became a guy.

[Dasha]

No, that's June.

[Anna]

Oh,

[Dasha]

Knocked Ups. The Seth Rogen Katherine Heigl comedy where they have a one night stand and get pregnant. Make it work. Okay.

[Anna]

That happens.

[Dasha]

So I don't know if Judd Apatows.

[Anna]

I mean, what. What happens if you have a one night stand and you get knocked up and then you tell the guy and he's like. And it's like, I'll pay for your abortion. Whatever it takes. Like, you have to be careful, cautious in these.

[Dasha]

Whatever. Yeah. I don't know. I guess that's what she's asking is like, can I just get knocked up by someone that is. Doesn't want a baby?

[Anna]

I mean, it depends on how badly you want the baby and what you're willing to sacrifice.

[Dasha]

Right. It sounds like she's willing to sacrifice.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

A father.

[Caller]

Huh.

[Dasha]

For the sperm donor. But like, I'd say.

[Anna]

Well, that would have been my first line of action. Yeah.

[Dasha]

Yeah. But if she doesn't have that much time.

[Anna]

We don't know how much time she has, by the way, because she didn't.

[Dasha]

She said mid to late 30s.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dasha]

But she should. I don't know.

[Anna]

There should be a dating app for people who want to have babies.

[Dasha]

Right.

[Anna]

Million dollar idea. Well, it'll go out of business really quickly because people.

[Caller]

People won't.

[Anna]

It'll only be women.

[Dasha]

What's that term?

[Anna]

They. They'll be. No, they won't, like, retain their clientele, which is, like, what these things run on, right?

[Dasha]

Well, ideally, yeah. Like, everyone's has wholesome Christian values or they have sex with people that they could basically see themselves procreating with. That's not even, you know, that's not even that Christian. Just, like, normal, like, human.

[Anna]

Like, less

[Dasha]

the. If people in general understood that sex had, like, consequences and were willing to, like, take those risks.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

Then things would be more straightforward.

[Anna]

Yep. Good luck out there.

[Caller]

Hi, my name is John Frogman. Big fan of your show. Been listening for a little while now. I want to know how in touch you are with your fans and if you have any advice as to how to attract a woman who likes Red Scare, because I don't like discussing politics with women because typically they're really dumb. But I'd assume that a woman who listens to your show because it's not slop would actually be pretty fun to talk to. I'm a late 20s Groiper, and I feel like the Red Scare audience is full of women who aren't insufferable. So thank you. Have a great day.

[Anna]

What makes you think that?

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Frogman. Is that your real name?

[Dasha]

Yeah. I don't know.

[Anna]

That's sweet.

[Dasha]

It's very. I found. I was very touched when he said that she might actually be fun to talk to. Like, you can feel how much she wants to talk to a woman.

[Anna]

I know.

[Dasha]

And he thinks that a Red Scare fan might fit the bill, but I don't know.

[Anna]

I don't know about that, but I see what he's doing. This is powerful 4D chess, because if you. A single willing gray Pet, here's this episode. She might be tempted to reach out.

[Dasha]

Well she can.

[Anna]

Well she could do it through DM one of us.

[Dasha]

I guess I could give you his phone number.

[Anna]

Yeah, he's like how in touch are you with your fans?

[Dasha]

Pretty into, you know, reachable, accessible.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

So yeah, I guess if any great bets out there when I meet this

[Anna]

guy John Frogman,

[Dasha]

you can DM me and I'll just give you his phone number because he called the Loveline and I never said I wouldn't give out people's phone numbers. So careful what you wish for, John.

[Anna]

What you want to do is get on one of the subs and white knight us.

[Dasha]

There we go. Yeah. Say actually Anna, Josh are pretty cool.

[Anna]

Do it on every social media platform

[Dasha]

and love will find you.

[Anna]

Just be careful that when you finally meet your like beautiful trad wife Red Scare, Gray Pet that you don't continue listening to the podcast because that's going to create.

[Dasha]

That's going to alienate her. Exactly.

[Caller]

Hey ladies, I have a question that pertains to both of you in kind of different ways. In the last year my two year old daughter and I and my husband were all baptized into the Eastern Orthodox church. And since entering the church I've been struggling with the idea of forgiveness and sin. Early in my relationship with my now husband, we became pregnant and decided to get an abortion. And we both wrestled with the shame and guilt from that decision for the last six years. After having our daughter, we both found a lot of deep remorse and shame around what we did and truly view it now as murder of an innocent life. My question for Anna is how was having a previous abortion affected you in motherhood? And Dasha, what do you think of forgiveness when it comes to a great sin such as something as heavy as murder? Of course talked to my priest about this, but I wanted to get your lovely inputs and perspectives. I hope this isn't too much of a downer. All right, bye ladies. Hope to not see you in hell.

[Anna]

You can take this one. I'm not answering that.

[Dasha]

I mean we can cut it. I don't care. I mean I think you know, God loves people very much and wants to forgive them and if you are repentant, he will be merciful to you to the degree that you are be able to to be merciful to others and yourself even. I'm sure your priest probably told you something similar. Obviously it's like gravely sinful but you're not damned. Like the whole Christian model is like repent is that you're able to repent.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

You can kill like a normal person and repent.

[Anna]

Can you. Can you get an entry to heaven if you.

[Dasha]

If you genuinely feel bad?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

If you genuinely feel remorse and asking for a friend.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

I mean, there's the idea that you won't be forgiven is like a. That's not a. That's not from God.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

That's like a evil idea.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Anna]

I don't.

[Dasha]

You shouldn't count on God's mercy, but you should hope for it.

[Anna]

Yes. That's well said. I don't much have, or I don't have much hope that I'm going to heaven. I'm probably going to hell.

[Dasha]

Well, you got to get baptized for

[Anna]

any number of reasons. Chiefly not being baptized. Yes.

[Dasha]

Also in her case, just autistically, I'll say she got baptized.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

After the abortion. Remission of all your sins.

[Anna]

What?

[Dasha]

When you get baptized, all your sins are forgiven. They're forgiven through confession and stuff too.

[Anna]

But where do I sign up?

[Dasha]

You, literally. But yeah, technically, yeah. You were unbaptized. So now that you are, you're right, You've all the new sins, you're accumulated, you'll be held to accountable for, but not anything you did before.

[Anna]

I mean, like, I will say that once you have a baby, you can no longer like, Elide or avoid the reality that, like, abortion is obviously a religious sin and also just like a great stain on your conscience. You know, Louis CK had that bit where he was like, you know, pick a lane. It's either like murder or it's like taking a shit. I'm of the. It's a special category of murder persuasion, like it is. There's no getting around it. And the more you think about it, because people always have these ongoing quibbles over when life begins. And obviously it begins at conception when, like, the sperm joins the egg. That is like the first spark of a soul. There's no getting around it with elaborate semantic or scientific arguments.

[Dasha]

I mean, I believe that, but I think there is. I don't know, there's babies that aren't like, meant to be carried to term. Maybe they're not totally insouled. Like, I kind of. I don't know. Not like in the case of abortion.

[Anna]

If you're born with a brain, are you even insouled without a brain?

[Dasha]

Without a brain you are. If you're born.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

Because you're born for.

[Anna]

No, with. I mean, with. Yeah. And like, not to be too much of a negative Nancy and a Debbie Downer myself. But I've said this before, and I'll say it again, like, none of my haters can touch me because they'll never hate me as much as I hate myself. It's true.

[Dasha]

But there's.

[Anna]

But, like, I don't know if there's any redemptive quality to carrying this kind of guilt with you. It's like Welbeck's point about how physical suffering yields no deeper insights, and it's just pure, pointless torment. I don't think that's entirely true either. But, like, it's. I think it's good at base to have those emotions and to learn to live with them.

[Dasha]

Well, that's why, as she knows, Christians adhere to this concept of repenting and that you can be absolved and forgiven of your sins. You don't have to care. That's why Christ died on the cross. So we don't have to carry the guilt of, like, all of our sins.

[Anna]

Yeah, but it's one of the dumbest sins because it's so strange, stupid, and senseless. And you were only doing it because you were being selfish and lazy and didn't want to take on the sacrifice when you were young, which you and your husband seem to understand,

[Dasha]

but. Which I think. But then God has compassion for.

[Anna]

Yeah. But you also have to remember that, like, you wouldn't have the baby that you have today if you hadn't done that.

[Dasha]

We live in a fallen world, and I think every soul is unique, and there's a reason your daughter exists now. And, like, part of that. It's complicated because it is. Was sinful. But, like. Yeah, she exists in the world now because of. It's a fallen world.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

And there's human frailty, I think.

[Anna]

Yeah. And I think, like, you. You should probably have some, like, skepticism and contempt for your former self who went through with that. But you will find the path to redemption and repentance by, like, looking at your baby girl in the now, you know.

[Dasha]

Yeah. You can hear in the sound.

[Anna]

I was like, is that a dog?

[Dasha]

So. Yeah. Don't punish yourself too much because you'll be punished in accordance with, like, heavenly. Well, in accordance with, like, his justice and mercy.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

You know, so you can trust in that. And, like, if you are. If you have to do some purgatory. I guess orthodox people don't believe in that. Whatever. You'll undergo a process of purgation, and, like, you can count on mercy.

[Anna]

Yeah. At the end of the day, though, the most important thing to keep in mind is that your own redemption doesn't really matter.

[Dasha]

What do you mean?

[Anna]

You have the soul of another to. To steward now. Yes. So you're not that important in like the grand ledger of things.

[Dasha]

Yeah. And a life of self sacrifice will ultimately aid you.

[Anna]

Fine and even honorable.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

And that's like where salvation is, is in living in service to others.

[Anna]

True.

[Dasha]

So sounds like you're on the right track.

[Anna]

I mean, the best part about having a kid is that you really just like don't think of yourself anymore. And when you do, when you have those moments where you get in your head, you're like, wait, I'm like gay and should just shut the fuck up.

[Dasha]

Yeah. And you can't make a TikTok about how you have no friends and sit

[Anna]

alone in your apartment. And I never get like, when, when women on Twitter like complain about like losing their identity or their body because they had a baby, it's like, well, I know that your personal circumstances might not be ideal because whose are but like, isn't it great to lose your identity and your body?

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

For somebody else who you love more than yourself? Who cares?

[Dasha]

So true. Well said.

[Caller]

Hey ladies.

[Anna]

Love the pod.

[Caller]

I'm looking forward to hearing your LSAT scores. I am a 24 year old man from a fairly wealthy big city family. I'm a law student, but I exclusively date girls in the art scene. I just enjoy their company more than the private school girls that I grew up around and that my brothers tend to bring home to our family. When I start to get serious with a girl, I'm often worried about her not knowing the etiquette or manners for her to be able to meet my family. They are generally accepting and open people, but when it comes to future wives, they obviously have some expectations. How can I teach these girls etiquette without offending them or seeming gay? I like art hoes the way they are, but I often think I would need to do some training before getting too serious. I figured you two would have some insight since you've managed to exist in some classier atmospheres through your career. Thanks.

[Dasha]

He's got a My Fair lady situation on his hands.

[Anna]

Port noise complaint.

[Dasha]

He's got an Eliza Doolittle. But he's got to teach how to say, speak properly. You just got to find the right art. Oh yeah.

[Anna]

You know, does this even matter in this day and age?

[Dasha]

I mean, I think if you bring like some like creepy with like tattoos who like doesn't act right. Rama Duaji. She's a great art hoe. Who's like who's the first lady of New York, you know? Yeah. I wouldn't have such a low opinion of your partners. It sounds like. Yeah, he's probably drawn to more like chaotic women, but he can find like a middle ground where they have what he thinks he likes about art hoes but can also like function in a more conservative, classy, I don't know, etiquette

[Anna]

and can entertain and so on. I mean like there's no shortage of art hoes who come from extremely wealthy families and have trust funds.

[Dasha]

So true.

[Anna]

Come on now. Yeah, none of these people are poor.

[Dasha]

Some of them are maybe.

[Anna]

Well they're like, they're not like authentically poor. Maybe one or two here and there. But generally all the people you meet like in New York basically have daddy's money.

[Dasha]

The arts are a valid high minded pursuit.

[Anna]

I just can't believe. I mean, I guess there are like holdouts, pockets of people who still care about this sort of thing.

[Dasha]

But yeah, I have a hard time imagining like what his family dynamic is

[Anna]

like because even like wealthy people from old families are like trashy and vulgar now and they're doing like loneliness influencing

[Dasha]

on the Internet like the WASP has fallen. There's no like what etiquette can't imagine. Like how do you. She needs like a cotillion class to learn which fork to use. Like you could just gently kind of usher her through some of the like expectations your family might have in terms of behavior.

[Anna]

Yeah. How do you do that as a man? I guess is the question. Without coming off as like. Yeah. Condescending or gay. Well, women like when you.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Mansplain things to them.

[Dasha]

And I wouldn't like introduce someone to your family too early where it's awkward for you to like explain something like that to them.

[Anna]

I wouldn't bring your sister around. Listen, I personally don't care, but my parents will.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And like heal to authority.

[Dasha]

They'll probably rise to the occasion.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

But yeah, I think it's problem. Yeah, I think he's probably like non committal ultimately.

[Anna]

Yeah, he doesn't really like these art hoes that he's dating that much though he claims to. Yeah, he likes what they represent which

[Caller]

is like

[Anna]

coffee, preppy family. Yeah.

[Caller]

Hi, long time listener, first time caller. I'm calling for your loveline. I recently got dumped so my ex could join a coked out polycule. Apparently they were like hooking up with this like weird coked out married couple. Well, we were still like on and off. Anywho, how do I cope with this information. Thank you very much.

[Anna]

I mean, your ex leaving you for a cokehead polycule is irrelevant to the coping. Right?

[Dasha]

Because it's just a breakup because he left you regardless. I guess there's some extra sting to it, but I think he should fall in esteem in your eyes.

[Anna]

Yeah. Is this worse than him leaving you for a beautiful younger woman? No, it's better because you come out on top.

[Dasha]

Well, she also. What I found interesting about this one is she says they instead of him, which maybe is just like a language thing, but maybe there's like a non

[Anna]

binary element, in which case the problem is you.

[Dasha]

Yeah. And like, should come as no surprise.

[Anna]

I'm shocked that people in polycules are doing coke because they seem more like the chubby weed smoking type.

[Dasha]

Well, it sounds like he. Or they. Whatever. It's like not in a true. I guess it is a polycule, technically, but he's like the third.

[Anna]

Yeah, he's using this older, richer couple for their coke, which is valid, frankly.

[Dasha]

Yeah. Sounds like the cocaine.

[Anna]

I can't really imagine myself joining a polycule, but that's probably the only polycule I would have joined as a young person.

[Dasha]

It's like a couple with some good cocaine. Yeah, I guess. Sounds like you're already coping well enough. Maybe join your own polycule. They seem plentiful. Or just, you know, rest easy in knowing that you ultimately had different values.

[Anna]

And we're dating a loser. Yep.

[Caller]

Hey, Anna. Hey, Dasha. Love the pod. I've actually been re listening to all the old Loveline episodes this week, trying to look for some wisdom on my current issues. So this is really wild timing. Basically, I'm 21, I just graduated college, and I just moved across the state to live in the same city as my boyfriend. He's 36, by the way. I feel like that's important context here, but since moving here, I've basically just been like, glued to his side since he's the only person I know here and I've become incredibly codependent towards him. And I feel like me being a really needy and reliant weirdo is causing some strain in our relationship and also kind of making me hate myself a little bit. Additional context. We don't live together, but we do live in the same city. And this is an issue that I've had in like, all of my relationships. But I was wondering if you guys had any advice on how to be less codependent in relationships or even if this is like something that I can fix while I'm still in a relationship or if that's, like, a lesson I need to learn once I'm single. Or any just general advice for a young woman trying to start her life in a new city. Thank you. I need all the help I can get.

[Anna]

Have you ever thought of becoming a loneliness influencer?

[Dasha]

How old did she say her boyfriend was? 36. She's 21. She moved to the city he lives in. Does not live with him.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

Okay. He is responsible for you. You should be living with him.

[Anna]

She moved for him.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Okay, so.

[Dasha]

So she's in a new place where she doesn't know anyone and now is, like, exhibiting alienating, codependent tendencies, which it's sounds like are also part of her nature. Sure.

[Anna]

But he kind of facilitated this dynamic.

[Dasha]

She needs to give herself some grace. Yeah.

[Anna]

And I think all young women are probably codependent to a degree.

[Dasha]

I definitely.

[Anna]

All women are codependent. At the end of the day, it comes down to how. How well you hide it.

[Dasha]

Well, you're less. I think maybe. I think you're less Cody than me or Slash. Better at hiding it.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

I'm pretty, like, nakedly, kind of, you know, I'm like. What do you mean, a boundary?

[Anna]

I mean, do guys like it? Does it work for you?

[Dasha]

When I was younger. No. But I've also. It's also tempered, I think, with age.

[Anna]

Yeah. Because you've accrued some experience and some money.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And some perspective when I sort of know the formula of how relationships work.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And how all the give and take.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And all relationships are relationships.

[Dasha]

I would kind of. He needs to help you.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

That's ridiculous. Are in an age gap relationship and he has to assume a more like paternal. Sorry. I don't know. Like, he needs, like, you. You're in his ward and you not living with him is a red flag to me because if you move to a new place and you feel like there's strain in you being dependent on the partner who lives there, like they have to kind of take pains to accommodate you and put you at ease and kind of like, create an atmosphere and circumstance in which you're able to thrive.

[Anna]

Yeah. I was randomly actually thinking about this today because a boyfriend of mine once said that it's refreshing how independent I am given how codependent his ex was. You know, she couldn't be alone, and I wanted to be like, oh, no, honey, no woman can be alone. Kofifi Anon meme.

[Dasha]

I hate it.

[Anna]

There was a new study that was on Twitter talking about how the Traditional wisdom was that men were interested in things and women are interested in. Were interested in people. Men are tinkerers and hobbyists, so they can spend long swathes of time in, like, solitary mode, like learning some craft or whatever, whereas women need to surround themselves in. Around with people in a social setting. But it turns out that actually just women aren't interested in things. And I was thinking about us because we're. We're both, like, pretty capable and competent, drumming up interest in, like, intellectual, philosophical concepts that don't have anything to do with us.

[Dasha]

But personally, yeah.

[Anna]

But even that, like, at. At the end of the day, I think about this a lot with, like, the current state of the dating discourse and, like, the sexual marketplace and how hard it is for young people. Because, like, this might sound, again, cynical and misogynistic, but actually it's really beautiful and nice. A woman's purpose is. Or a woman's nature is to. To be about her man and her baby. I feel like a woman is at her best, at her truest, at her most beautiful when she loves a man and then a child.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Most women, of course, are outliers

[Caller]

who

[Anna]

are, like, great artists or great philosophers in their own right. But, like, there's nothing wrong with being, like, attached and vulnerable. It's very natural and beautiful.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And I think that's also why Lana Del Rey resonates so much with young women and gays. Because she loves love. And every other pop starlet is out there preaching the gospel of, like, invulnerability and independence.

[Dasha]

Question for the culture.

[Anna]

Get your bag, girl. You don't need no man. Men are trash. And it's. Yeah. It feels very, like, performatively, demonstratively ruthless and hostile.

[Dasha]

Cope. Yeah.

[Anna]

Hurt people.

[Dasha]

Hurt people or whatever.

[Anna]

And of course, like, Lana is offering kind of somewhat narcissistic fantasy, right. Of, like, this kind of embodied, exquisite suffering that sometimes you see snap and become a bad. When he finally wrongs you one too many times. But, like. Yeah, I don't know. I think codependence is, like, a bad word. I agree.

[Dasha]

One of all. One of my favorite Lana is in some interview where she said that she's never broken up with anybody.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

Because even if she's left someone, they made her do that.

[Anna]

That's so true. Yeah.

[Dasha]

Yeah, I know. Me too.

[Anna]

And when I say, like, narcissistic fantasy, I don't mean, like, she's a narcissist or her audience is narcissists.

[Dasha]

It's just, like. Right. It's romantic.

[Anna]

I Mean, that's partly true, but that's just like what's available.

[Dasha]

It's a romantic and self involved.

[Anna]

It's. Yeah, it's. That's like, that's actually the, the biggest taboo in our culture. It's not like incest or pedophilia or racism. It's like being a devoted yearner. Yeah. It's being devoted to somebody.

[Dasha]

I mean, I will say this relationship doesn't sound sustainable.

[Anna]

It doesn't.

[Dasha]

Yeah. Because part of what's beautiful about female devotion is that it's like freely chosen. You know, when you're in like state of like deprivation or coercion and you know, you have no choice. Which kind of sounds like she is, you know, she's so young and in a new place and like, what else is she gonna do?

[Anna]

Well, yeah. And ordinarily when people are. It'll.

[Dasha]

It's gonna run its course.

[Anna]

Yeah. And when people say I have a history of this sort of behavior, it's

[Dasha]

like a red flag. But she's so young. How much of a history could she even have?

[Anna]

Yeah, ordinarily I believe them and I take them at their word. But like, this seems like relatively natural and normal behavior for a young woman, let alone one that has been. You, like having a boyfriend transplanted to another city by her age gap boyfriend who won't even live with her.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And like. Yeah. What's in it for him that he now has this like ball and chain?

[Dasha]

I guess. I mean, I'm sure he loves her.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

In some way. But like I said, like. Yeah, he should kind of be taking care of her more. And if. Should he be feeling the strain of her, quote, codependence the way she describes, then he should be like, taking measures to like, help her come into her own. That's really the thing with like, I don't. I'm obviously like, I'm not scandalized by age gaps, but I think when you do. Me neither. Date a woman who is substantially younger and this is a pretty big age gap even by my standards, then you take on a responsibility to sort of like shepherd them through like a tender period in their life.

[Anna]

Yeah. And you can't just, just like, they're

[Dasha]

not just like your girlfriends. You, like, have a responsibility them. And you also have to kind of live with an understanding that they probably will move on and outgrow you.

[Anna]

Exactly.

[Dasha]

Because if you're dating a 21 year old.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

Like, and women are already so much more mature than men, like, she inevitably probably will like surpass you.

[Caller]

Well.

[Anna]

And the other ship ashed on my laptop.

[Dasha]

Domestic abuse.

[Anna]

Remember that article from a while ago about how having a boyfriend is embarrassing? I think we discussed it and I think they were claiming that it's embarrassing because you should be an independent woman who hates men. Yeah. But really it's embarrassing because everybody has, like, a boyfriend and more people should

[Dasha]

be.

[Anna]

Have like a serious husband. Husband. Yeah. Or just like.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Like a partner.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And.

[Dasha]

Yeah. And that boyfriends detract from your career or social life, you know?

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

Which is, like, uncool. Yeah, I guess.

[Anna]

I mean. No, look, having a boyfriend is totally fine and normal, but, like, having a boyfriend rocks.

[Dasha]

Having a part. Yeah. Having a man in your life. Come on.

[Anna]

Yeah, but

[Dasha]

like, if.

[Anna]

If you have like a. A serious love and a serious purpose, then, like, that's not your boyfriend.

[Dasha]

True.

[Anna]

So good luck.

[Dasha]

I mean, I guess. All for her.

[Anna]

I would say that's your man's.

[Dasha]

I mean, you're there, you moved. I don't know what your work situation is like, but you're very, very young and you're going to, like, your life is going to flourish.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

And it might take a while. There will be, like, growing pains. And he might not stick around, but you'll probably.

[Anna]

You might not stick around.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Have you ever.

[Dasha]

I mean. Yeah, he might not, you know, he might not be the one.

[Anna]

Yeah. I mean, I guess my original technical advice to her would have been to just, like, make yourself scarce and develop fake hobbies and interests.

[Dasha]

But what woman, what is she gonna do?

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

That's the thing is, like, when what women do distract themselves with is, like, socializing.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

And, like, in lieu of that, like, what can she really do? You know, she can work, but she's young. She doesn't have, you know, she's like, building a son, I guess, a career. She's a college grad. She's, like, finding her way in the world, I think.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

He should be helping you more if he really cares.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Hi, girls. I was wondering if you had any advice on how to heal a bruised ego. I went on a really bad blind date with someone from Discord, and I did a make and face reveal before he bought his plane ticket out to see me and then was, like, horribly disgusted by him once he arrived. But because he bought a plane ticket out to see me, I thought I had to see him for the weekend. And then when I met him the second day, he was in the bathroom and I looked in the bedside table and. And instead of finding a Bible, I found a Box of condoms and my. I'm hurt. I'm hurt that he thought that I liked him enough to want to have sex with him. I'm hurt that he thinks that I think so little of myself. And I also really want to be mean to him when I see him in Chad, But I also don't want anyone to know that I went on a date with someone horrifically ugly. He wasn't funny either. What do I do?

[Anna]

Wait, what?

[Dasha]

Another weird skirt?

[Anna]

Wait, what?

[Dasha]

Female tranny, gay guy, question mark.

[Anna]

You need to check your ego.

[Dasha]

Yeah. Shocking.

[Anna]

A guy bought a plane ticket, and the expectation was that he wasn't trying to have sex with you, and you're

[Dasha]

offended because you think he's so ugly that you didn't want to have sex with sex with him. I mean, you sound like the. You're the villain.

[Anna]

I would be offended that he wanted to use a condom, but that's just me.

[Dasha]

But also. Okay, I guess he. So he had a hotel and he put the condoms in the bedside drawer. I mean, maybe it's a gay guy, so he should, like. Maybe the condoms make sense. I don't know. Like, the voice again, weird socio voice.

[Anna]

Why would you want to be mean to somebody who took the time to try to get to know money to come meet you?

[Dasha]

And, yeah, I guess you were, like, creeped out by him. And then, I mean.

[Anna]

I mean, I understand having a bruised ego because you didn't do the face reel and he thought you were horribly ugly.

[Dasha]

I thought that's where I thought.

[Anna]

Exactly.

[Dasha]

Yeah, the twist really had me. But you just kind of sound like a cruel person. And like I was saying at the start of the app, like, while you claim to, you're talking like you have self worth, but you clearly don't. And so you resent this person not merely for being unattractive to you, but for, like, deigning to want you.

[Anna]

I know.

[Dasha]

And, like, you hate yourself.

[Anna]

I know so many zoomatts who are, like, in the talking stage with some guy who won't buy a plane ticket and won't fly them out, and they're, like, confused and baffled because they're like, oh, well, the. The chemistry is so strong, but I want to see if it's real. That's crazy, bro.

[Dasha]

I mean, yeah, to me, the egoic bruise is not really about him. It's like something. Something else is wrong with your ego and your ability to, like, form attachments or humane connections.

[Anna]

Yeah, you need to get over your ego, but not in the way you think.

[Caller]

Think.

[Dasha]

Hey, thanks for listening to your podcast. There's a guy named John Frogman that you.

[Caller]

You might like.

[Dasha]

He's interested in meeting girls just like you.

[Caller]

Hi, ladies. I'm a big fan of a pod. Just wanted to call and ask. So one of my really good friends, he is gay, but he's like bi. I think he's a on the Kinsey scales is what he told me once. He told me that he has feelings for me and like, I've always had a thing for him and like, he's been with like mostly men, but also women as well. And I don't know, like. Like I'm a little nervous to date him because, I mean, like, you know what they say about like, you know, bi men, but also like, like we're really close and I find him attractive and he's really into me, so I don't know what to do. So I would love your advice. Thanks again. Bye.

[Anna]

Happy Pride Month.

[Dasha]

So a four on the Kinsey scale means he's slightly more straight than he is gay. Because one is who is ringing my

[Anna]

doorbell at 11:26pm this isn't a.

[Dasha]

That's not a good. That's not a good sign. That's a feeling. I don't answer. Don't.

[Anna]

Famous last words. I need to move. Should she date him? Yeah, why not?

[Dasha]

Sure. Everyone's like, whatever.

[Anna]

This is the month to get AIDS if you're gonna do it. I'm jealous, frankly.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

I think he's probably more gay than a four potentially.

[Anna]

But maybe.

[Dasha]

I really don't know. Zoomers really seem very pan sexual.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

And yeah, I say, yeah, you like him. Whatever. He likes you. Seems like gay guy. Great.

[Anna]

Gay heaven.

[Dasha]

So these next. These two are kind of. They're conclusive.

[Anna]

Okay, can I peer real quick and then we'll.

[Dasha]

I'm going to pee to.

[Anna]

After you.

[Dasha]

Okay. So these next two, like I said, they're. I guess they're in the order that I heard them. Maybe they are. There's a good chance they're kind of like coordinated and I'm a total mark. But they cover sort of space far apart enough where it seems. I don't know, I was like, oh, wow. I like, I don't know. I was intrigued. So.

[Anna]

Okay, wait, so are we doing two hers or one his?

[Dasha]

We're gonna two do two hers and then one. Okay.

[Caller]

Hi, Anna and Dasha. I have a question about whether you think a faith gap relationship can actually work. I met a man and he is a conservative Christian. We also don't live in the same country. And consensually we met on basically through the rescue subreddit. But I'm raised post Soviet. My parents are from Belarus. I grew up really agnostic. Religion has never been part of my life. And. And on the other hand, he was raised really Christian. His family is really religious. He's really faithful. And when we have been together, we go to church. And I've been trying to like learn a lot about it and be supportive, but I just really doubt, you know, his family means a lot to him. Will his family ever accept me? Is there a future here? And I'm just trying to figure out whether I'm gonna have to convert for it to work long term and whether basically my question is for Dasha because I know that she's the more godly one about this is even possible. So thank you. Bye.

[Dasha]

Okay, well, it's a good question for both of us because of the fate we're in. A Faith Gap podcast, actually. But Anna, someone keeps ringing your door. I know.

[Anna]

Should I go and look through the people? It could be Eli.

[Dasha]

Does he not have a phone?

[Anna]

I think his phone's dead. Yeah, I should make sure it's not Eli. But I'm not gonna open the door because that's scary. It's spooky.

[Dasha]

Yeah. Be careful. Do you want me to come with you?

[Anna]

No, it's okay.

[Dasha]

Okay.

[Anna]

Oh, wait, that's so spooky. Okay, so they're coming. What if they start coming down?

[Dasha]

Okay, so it's like her situation. Okay. Okay.

[Anna]

But this is so creepy. This is the first time this has ever happened because like Eli was ringing the doorbell aggressively before you got here because he lost his keys and it was like a whole nightmare. And yeah, then it happened again in the same night. Was different guy, I'm assuming.

[Dasha]

Unless he's coming upstairs to him.

[Anna]

Yeah. Don't these have a working doorbell? Whatever. We'll see what happens.

[Dasha]

Okay. So we heard from her.

[Caller]

What?

[Anna]

Oh, no, nothing. It's so stressful, it's scary. Oh, go on.

[Dasha]

Well, let's listen to the counter part. So we've heard from her.

[Caller]

Hi, Anna. Hi, Dasha calling from Canada. I'm a 29 year old Canadian guy who earlier this year met a Belarusian American girl on redskier matchmaking.com. and we started out as pen pals, but we fell for one another. And now we're trying to make a long distance relationship work for context while we actually share a lot of beliefs and ethics. For example, things like child rearing or family life. She And I come from pretty different cultural backgrounds. I'm conservative, I'm from a small town, a bit of a lower middle class yuppie. I'm a Christian, I'm Anglo. While she is agnostic, an academic, she's culturally Belarusian. She's more like think New York literati. I was raised on a farm, literally. And so this girl's really smart. And I've heard that Slavic women can be pretty harsh in arguments, especially compared to my very subdued British style of conflict resolution. So my question is, while. Can people like us overcome socioeconomic and cultural differences and remain faithful and make a life together and start a family, or is someone like her gonna just get bored of me? And if you have any advice for dating a boa Russian girl in general, please share. Okay, thanks for listening. I love.

[Anna]

Well, you can have that one. But it does seem coordinated.

[Dasha]

I mean, not.

[Anna]

That's really cute and romantic.

[Dasha]

That's why I, you know, maybe I am just a romantic in that way

[Anna]

that I thought it sounds reasonably attractive. So good for them.

[Dasha]

And they both listen to this show, so they probably know, like, maybe it's not. Their questions are kind of different enough that I don't think maybe they coordinated. But it's a little bit of fan service because I know the sub doesn't like us so much and yet we do so much for them when we bring these people together that they're actually

[Anna]

calling in about two totally separate people and then they should just meet and fall in love.

[Dasha]

Well, he actually called twice. He, like, left another voicemail that was like, just more. I put this one in. They weren't very different, which also made me feel like it was kind of coincidental and sweet. And I was touched sort of by her. Her question is like, should she convert? And his question is like, will she get bored of him? Like, he's.

[Anna]

Oh, you know, they're both like, nervous.

[Dasha]

Yeah, they're like, I don't know. I'm rooting for them. I think she should convert because as an agnostic, like, why not? Kind of Pascal's Wager sort of thing. And like, it's a good foundation to build a relationship on. And being like, culturally Belarusian, Russian, whatever. Obviously there's like profound godlessness in the Slavic people, but in terms of values, I feel like they're not so misaligned.

[Anna]

Yeah, that's true.

[Dasha]

But she probably will scream at you.

[Anna]

And if you're. If you're like a worldly intelligentsia female with an academic background, you might want that chud.

[Dasha]

You might want that Farm boy. You might want that. Canadian. You know, kids in the hall.

[Anna]

Dick.

[Dasha]

And they've met before.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dasha]

As she said.

[Anna]

Okay. So they have chemistry.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And they.

[Dasha]

They're trying to make a longdistance relationship work, but not that long.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

Canada, U.S. well, one can just move.

[Anna]

That seems like the. The optimal solution.

[Dasha]

And she's also doing kind of endearing. An endearing female thing where she's worried about, like. Like to convert to marry him. And he's sort of talking about

[Anna]

just

[Dasha]

general, like, compatibility, though he. They both seem to feel like they're pretty compatible.

[Anna]

He probably doesn't even require her conversion,

[Dasha]

and it sounds like his family might, but I don't think there's any loss in her. Like, I don't know. Why not?

[Anna]

Yeah. I would say go for it.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Because there's never been a better time to be hetero because it's not like

[Dasha]

she has to, like, change her. You know, she doesn't, like, subscribe to a totally different belief system. And plenty of people convert for marriage and then, like, you know, either, like, come to it or they don't. But, like, if you want to have kids, if you want to build a life, it's like a nice, you know.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

Bedrock, potentially. Anyway, that's all I really have to say. I just thought it was.

[Anna]

Yeah, that's a nice and wholesome end.

[Dasha]

I thought it was a nice note to end on. And, yeah, it was slim pickings.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

But they're not so bad.

[Anna]

These are decent. Yeah.

[Dasha]

Okay.

[Anna]

These are pretty good questions.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Anna]

We should stop selling ourselves so short.

[Dasha]

I know. I mean, if you didn't like it, it's Yalls fault because we did the best we could. All right. Good luck out there. See you in.

[Caller]

Hello, Sam.