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- [00:24]
A
We're back.
- [00:25]
B
We're back. I have a great episode for you. Highly anticipated.
- [00:33]
A
It's actually. It's timely. Yeah, it just came out, so. I'm proud of us.
- [00:38]
B
Yes, me, too.
- [00:39]
A
Because usually when you do a movie up, it's like a dry docket. We're like, what's in the theaters?
- [00:45]
B
Yeah. The movie's, like, from 1968. Yeah.
- [00:48]
A
It's this Pee Wee Herman documentary kind of no one cared about. So we did it. We went to go see 28 years later, Bone Temple. I actually did see that the week prior.
- [01:03]
B
It's really good. Really sick.
- [01:05]
A
But we saw Wuthering Heights, which was so bad.
- [01:10]
B
Yeah. What did you say that you had nothing nice to say about this movie?
- [01:14]
A
I don't have a single good thing to say, Anna.
- [01:17]
B
Well, then, as my mother said, you don't say anything at all. So we may as well wrap it up. Wrap it up. That's great. I feel like when we review movies, we generally, like, benignly disagree, but we both really, really hated this movie.
- [01:32]
A
Well, I think I have more of a. You know, I've. I have pretty low standards, to be honest. And, like, I like to see the good in things.
- [01:41]
B
Yes.
- [01:41]
A
I'm more of a generous viewer.
- [01:44]
B
Well, you. Yeah, it's like that. God, I forgot.
- [01:48]
A
Which is what makes the show so good. That's the Anna Dasha dynamic.
- [01:51]
B
Yeah. The Ana Dash experience.
- [01:53]
A
Yeah. And,
- [01:56]
B
yeah, I forgot who said this. Was it, like, Pushkin or Chekhov or something? Or somebody speaking about one of those guys? Like, you have to appreciate a work of art by its peaks, not its valleys, which I really do appreciate the sentiment behind that. And when I am critical, it's obviously, like, as a labor of love, because I do appreciate the tremendous work and energy and effort the filmmakers and actors put into their craft. But that said, there's, like, literally nothing redeemable about this movie whatsoever.
- [02:35]
A
Well, yeah, it made me think back to. Right. It makes poor things look like Barry Lyndon.
- [02:41]
B
It's like.
- [02:43]
A
Like, I think back to, like, the episode we did about poor things, which I was like, you know, I have. I'm like, oh, it's a little, like, whimsical. It's a little, you know, we're. Or like Marty supreme kind of drags and is a little formulaic or, like, you know, like, you have these critiques of movies, then you see a movie this bad.
- [02:57]
B
Yeah. And you're like, I'm never saying anything bad about the Softies ever again.
- [03:01]
A
You're like, those movies were masterpieces. I Didn't know how good I had it.
- [03:05]
B
I know
- [03:07]
A
Wuthering Heights was like, when you are. It's. It felt like looking at, like, X videos, like, right after you, like, busted a nut.
- [03:16]
B
Like, the whole movie.
- [03:18]
A
Like, you know, it's, like, technically sexual, but it's like, it was the most repulsive, upsetting, ugly. Like, oh, like vulgar, stupid.
- [03:29]
B
You know, sick. You know those, like, mugs and candle holders they sell in, like, shopes in Bushwick and Williamsburg that are, like, different types of tits? That's what it made me think of. Yeah.
- [03:46]
A
With, like, a cuss word.
- [03:47]
B
It made me think of, like, Timothy Faust, abortion is rad T shirts. The whole movie was like an ad for abortion. It was like an ad for plan B. It was. It was the most, like, antisexual, antinatalist, ugly, wretched film made by antisexual, antinatalist,
- [04:06]
A
ugly, wretched people for an audience of, like, women who are, like, on birth control. SSRIs. Their clits are, like, numb from using, like, Hitachi wands. And they. Yeah. Have some, like, email job.
- [04:22]
B
Yeah.
- [04:23]
A
We used to call them girl bosses in the early days of this podcast, but this is like, something else. It's like girl serfs.
- [04:32]
B
Yeah, it's. Yeah, it. Yeah, it's like perusing Reddit posts about your sex life, failing, or being a fem cell. It's so dark, dude.
- [04:47]
A
It's alarming. It makes me think, like, something like, this is, like, a red flag for the culture.
- [04:52]
B
It's.
- [04:53]
A
Honestly, it's every. And I would forgive so much of it if it looked okay. Like, I'll watch.
- [05:00]
B
Great point.
- [05:01]
A
I'll watch a bad period movie as long as it's kind of, like, easy on the eyes. This also looked so bad. It just offended me.
- [05:13]
B
Oh, yeah. It was so ugly. The set design was hideous. The interior is hideous. The costumes.
- [05:19]
A
The costumes. That's the one thing could have had. It could have, like, given us a costume.
- [05:27]
B
Like, everything looked like something Beyonce would wear on tourism. The costumes were made of, like, latex, latex. And what's that, like, crinkly plastic wrap
- [05:39]
A
fabric that I groaned out loud when she comes out in the nightie that's made out of, like, cellophane.
- [05:45]
B
That's when she's losing her virginity to her betrothed on the night of her wedding. Yep. What a disgusting scene. Godless, loveless movie that does Great insult to the source material of the book. With Wuthering Heights by Emily Bronte, which I just started reading. It's pretty interesting. So Far it is very dark and gothic. I'm going to finish it. I guess I'm going to finish it right here on this podcast right now.
- [06:12]
A
Let's dig in.
- [06:14]
B
But yeah, all the characters in the book are clearly meant to be unpleasant and terrible people.
- [06:23]
A
Sure.
- [06:24]
B
And Emily Bronte understood this and intended it. And Emerald Fennel, to her credit, also understands that that was Emily Bronte's intention. Except she doesn't understand what makes the character so terrible.
- [06:40]
A
Yes. And she doesn't understand that what makes the characters in the book redeemable is that they're young. That like when you watch an adolescent like Kathy's 17.
- [06:54]
B
Yes.
- [06:55]
A
For the majority of the book.
- [06:57]
B
Yeah. And we're supposed to believe Margot Robbie, who's like 37.
- [07:01]
A
She. I think I read somewhere that Emerald Fennel decided to age them up because they're not plausibly teenagers at all. But even that is like the whole like when you are watching young people, you know, behave in unseemly ways. Yeah. It's because they have like folly and youth and passion. That is like. And youthful folly. That's like driving them to like consequence or ruin or like you're. That's like, that's the tension. That's like what makes something dramatic, tragic, literary, interesting. Watching two middle aged people like yell at each other in the rain is just.
- [07:41]
B
Is pathetic.
- [07:42]
A
Like, that's not, That's. Wait, from the jump. Like, it's not interesting.
- [07:48]
B
Well, let's. Okay, so she's 35. How old is Jacob?
- [07:52]
A
He's like 28. But he also. He doesn't. They're supposed to be 28. Young.
- [07:56]
B
Yeah, they're supposed to be young. And he's obviously like visibly younger than her in the movie. I'm going to preface this by saying that Margot Robbie is obviously very gorgeous and beautiful, but she's too old and fat for the role. She's a clearly postpartum wrong kibay type, as you mentioned. She's like a robust, athletic blonde. Obviously. Catherine Earnshaw is a canonical sensitive BPD wave. Margaret. Margaret Qualley would have probably been better for the role. She's a brunette. She's like a mousy brunette.
- [08:34]
A
Even. She's a little too healthy. But she could play frail. Margot doesn't even try. Like, she looks, like I said, like, she's never been calorie deficient or like even had a cold. Like she looks, she looks so Australian and like robo old. Like, I don't buy it. There's nothing like in her. And again, she's Beautiful. Well, obviously. But nothing in her face like, inspires like tenderness or she's just completely wrong.
- [09:02]
B
Yeah.
- [09:04]
A
And they have no chem. They. I don't care if they.
- [09:07]
B
Yeah, that looks really. That. Yeah. Their chemistry is like non existent and lacking. Yeah. It feels like even on like press junkets, they got rid of all the interesting elements of the book because it's like a sprawling dynastic inheritance saga by literally killing off all the future heirs. There's, you know, three children that come after Catherine and Heathcliff.
- [09:36]
A
I don't think there have been any adaptations that tackled like the second part of the book.
- [09:39]
B
Okay.
- [09:40]
A
They all kind of. Yeah.
- [09:41]
B
Like. Because it's like a romance fantasy, but which is a shame because, you know, they replace it.
- [09:47]
A
Yeah.
- [09:48]
B
With like this Bushwick tier, like bean flicking and body horror. And the future heirs being Kathy, who's the daughter of Catherine and Edgar and Linton, who's the son of Heathcliff and Isabella, who are eventually married off by the cruel and scheming Heathcliff so he can take possession of both of the estates.
- [10:10]
A
Which again also is what makes like, the things that unfold in the first part meaningful is that they like, reverberate through time and have like multi generational effects. And this is literally like that. Like these people, when they were so young, like, made these decisions that like, doomed their children.
- [10:26]
B
Yes. And there's even, you know, Catherine and Heathcliff are the main characters of the book, but they don't have such a central role as they do in the movie. Like, Catherine dies midway through the book and then her ghost stalks the moors and marshes. And there's like this interesting super supernatural angle that I haven't gotten to yet where Heathcliff exhumes Catherine's body after she dies and becomes possessed by her spirit, which is why he's such a mean and cantankerous old man at the beginning of the book. The book starts as a. In contemporary times for the time, and
- [11:02]
A
then
- [11:04]
B
is retold in flashbacks by Nally, the housemaid, the Chinese maid with a mean face. And of course it's an adaptation, so I don't expect it to be faithful to the book. But the way that it deviates from the source material is very like, interesting and also, I guess, upsetting. Well, annoying.
- [11:30]
A
I don't think it.
- [11:31]
B
Oh, is.
- [11:32]
A
I do think I believe in the artistic license to completely, you know, even like it's on a mood board and you're calling it Wuthering Heights, but what Fennel does is like, not only does she just Disregard what is compelling about the source material.
- [11:49]
B
Yeah.
- [11:49]
A
She still, like, she doesn't make a movie that's compelling in its own right. It's like leaning on the prestige and context and association of being Wuthering Heights. But if you. Because I read. I read the, like, vaguely. I know I definitely didn't finish it, but I feel like I've read it kind of in high school. It never really. It's not my thing.
- [12:07]
B
Right.
- [12:07]
A
Like I said, I'd rather read a Russian book.
- [12:13]
B
Yeah. I'm going to. I'll give it a shot. But it's already way better than the movie, obviously.
- [12:18]
A
Of course. But that's. Yeah. Like, so I went into the movie being like, okay, I'm going to just watch it, like on its own, like, as if it has nothing to do with Wuthering Heights.
- [12:27]
B
Yeah.
- [12:28]
A
And she doesn't do enough, like, structural work or character development to make you care about.
- [12:35]
B
Yeah.
- [12:36]
A
It just seems bizarre.
- [12:37]
B
It's confusing what the movie is even about, except for, like, the raving, fanatical, like, fantasies of, like, a washed up, aging empty egg cartons, roasty foid. And of course, like, who's like, dreaming about, like, being ravaged by a roving young brute or whatever. And of course, like, again, Margot Robbie, extremely beautiful and gorgeous baby Gerald, Hollywood actress. But she's a stand in for all of these, like, office worker women my age.
- [13:14]
A
I mean, there was a lot of Zoomers in the theater. I think it's really resonating with like,
- [13:20]
B
wide brainwashed women everywhere.
- [13:22]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [13:23]
B
There was actually. I was seated next to, like, a row of five Zoomettes who had gone together. This is the most packed movie that I've ever been to. Usually I'll go to a movie and there'll be like three people in the theater.
- [13:37]
A
Yeah.
- [13:39]
B
And they were all, like, sniffling and crying and having emotional outbursts. And meanwhile I was, like, just unreal. Held and seething.
- [13:48]
A
Yeah. I was, like, scoffing and, like, rubbing my temples and stuff.
- [13:52]
B
If I'm going to spike my cortisol, just like doom, scroll, Twitter, I don't need to spend two and a half hours doing this.
- [14:00]
A
I hated every second.
- [14:01]
B
It's gonna. This is gonna make me infertile. It's so disgusting and evil.
- [14:06]
A
It does. It's. I know, I know. It's, like, not that serious. And, like, part of my aversion is a visceral, like, taste thing. And it's something I've interrogated before. Like, why, like, the Tim Burton kind of carnival.
- [14:25]
B
Yeah.
- [14:25]
A
Dia de los Muertez kind of crap really rubs me wrong. And I don't know. I have to do. I have to.
- [14:32]
B
You have to do some Jungian shadow work.
- [14:34]
A
I do, but it does just make me feel so gross and bad.
- [14:41]
B
Yeah, no, it makes me. You know what it makes you feel like? It makes you feel like when you get your period and you want to kill yourself.
- [14:49]
A
Yeah, that.
- [14:49]
B
But, like, it's like when you, like, run out of tampons or something and you have to wear a pad and you have, like, swamp ass. It makes you feel, like, menstruating. Watching this movie, it's like the. I guess I can go through the. There's a lot of, like. Yeah, these overtly sexual but extremely unsexy scenes and, like, symbols. Let's see. I have.
- [15:18]
A
There was that Fran Leibowitz clip circulating. I think some gig. I posted it in response to Wuthering Heights, where she talks about how the AIDS epidemic preceded the death of, like, a whole subset of a population that was basically the death of, like, connoisseurship. Yeah. And so, like, the quality of the audience has declined.
- [15:38]
B
Yeah.
- [15:39]
A
And that's how exactly how Wuthering Heights feels. It's like the audience has, like.
- [15:43]
B
Yes.
- [15:44]
A
Just. The bar is so low. I heard these girls behind me as I was leaving, literally being like. I heard the most annoying gay guy, you know, being like, it was so good. It was so good.
- [15:58]
B
I know.
- [15:59]
A
And then these girls being, like, when she was wearing white, like, white symbolizes purity. Like, the. All the conversations that made me feel crazy.
- [16:10]
B
It's like. It's like going on black relationship advice Twitter, which I've been doing lately, where, like, all the tweets are, like, stating the obvious. If he doesn't respect you, you got to leave him. If your man is not being intentional, then terminating the relationship is valid.
- [16:25]
A
It's like that level of discourse,
- [16:31]
B
and sometimes they be saying stuff that, like, sometimes there's wisdom. Yeah. But, like, they say it in, like, that it's. You know, black people love to say residence instead of home female and profession instead of job. Females.
- [16:43]
A
That.
- [16:43]
B
That's one of the better ones. Yeah. They should. You know, they should remake this with a all black cast. Whether. Whether. How come that's a black man name.
- [16:55]
A
Wow.
- [16:56]
B
He dips out. He comes up in the rap game,
- [17:00]
A
comes back with that little earring.
- [17:01]
B
She has. She has three baby daddies. He's a girl. I did this all for you. And she's like, you need to give me $300 to get my hair and nails Did. Yeah. Heathcliff, obviously. At some point, she accepts Edgar's proposal, and Heathcliff disappears because I guess he overhears them chatting, and she calls him lowborn and suggests that marrying him would be degrading. But he doesn't listen to the part where she declares her love for him. Blah, blah. I actually missed that part because I was, like, taking a week, one of many because I kept taking bathroom breaks. So incensed. And then he return, burns like a made man with a mysterious fortune. A weird gay earring. Have you seen, like, the new fungal STI that's making the rounds in the gay community? They invented a new sti.
- [17:55]
A
They got Monkeypox round, too.
- [17:57]
B
Yeah. Except it's, like, not a virus and not a bacteria. It's a fungus. And it, like, what? It, like, appears as, like, gross. Like, keratinized masses on your groin and armpits and, like, chin. It looks so disgusting. I love gay guys as, like, a ride or die and friendly.
- [18:20]
A
But the AIDS epidemic was a tragedy.
- [18:23]
B
Yeah.
- [18:23]
A
For all of us.
- [18:24]
B
But it was a tragedy that we
- [18:26]
A
lost in the culture.
- [18:28]
B
Yeah. Yeah. And she's very astute in pointing out that. Yeah. Because people typically, when they think of the AIDS epidemic, they think of all the artists who are lost, but there's also. Yeah. Like, a huge chunk of the audience.
- [18:39]
A
Just, like, real esthetes.
- [18:40]
B
Yes. You know. Yeah. Intelligent, nuanced people.
- [18:44]
A
Yeah. Who like.
- [18:45]
B
Who also like Project Runway and RuPaul's Drag Race, who also.
- [18:49]
A
Yeah. Were tapped into probably, like. Yeah. Like, genuine animalistic desires that people like Emerald Fennell could never even. I want. Honestly, I want to beat her ass. It's crazy. I like. I'm like, does she like, what is wrong with this woman? Because I hated promising young women, too.
- [19:07]
B
Yeah.
- [19:08]
A
And I didn't even see that.
- [19:11]
B
Yeah.
- [19:11]
A
And then this, you know, for the girls and the gays, I saw a
- [19:17]
B
great tweet that was like, emerald Fennell. Is that how you say it? Emerald Fennell is one of the few young women directors who hasn't been the victim of misogyny, though she should be. She definitely should be. I'm about to victimize her misogynistically.
- [19:38]
A
Well. Because Fran. Yeah. And Fran's whole point is that after these gay guys died, these amazing gay guys we used to have, everything became more broad.
- [19:46]
B
Yeah.
- [19:47]
A
And Emerald Fennell certainly is broad. And this film is incred. I'm calling her fat. But also, the movie is also.
- [19:54]
B
Maybe you're calling her generic or fat.
- [19:56]
A
Also, the movie is broad in its
- [20:00]
B
scope. Yeah.
- [20:02]
A
And Taste.
- [20:03]
B
Huh.
- [20:04]
A
And like.
- [20:05]
B
I mean, is it too. It's like. It is like Bushwick House of. Yes. Like haunted dolls.
- [20:13]
A
Well, it's always gonna have a little bit of that. Because it is like, that's forgivable in isolation. Like, some of these things are forgivable, some are not. But in its amalgam, there's nothing good.
- [20:26]
B
So it's. I just think you could have really, like, even if you were gonna deviate significantly from the original, there are so many missed opportunities for creating. Yeah. Like, beautiful exterior shots, beautiful interior shots. Beautiful.
- [20:43]
A
Make it a vibe.
- [20:44]
B
Costumes, picnic and hanging rock. Yeah. Saw another great take that was like. Every time I was thinking this scene couldn't get any worse, Charlie XCX's voice came on soundtrack.
- [20:59]
A
Yeah. It was even the non Charlie song. So over raw and like, inappropriate.
- [21:03]
B
Yeah.
- [21:04]
A
And then the Charlie ones, it's like. Yeah. She's literally. She's going for Marie Antoinette. Sofia Coppola. The Strokes.
- [21:11]
B
Yeah. Contemporary.
- [21:13]
A
Worse in every anachronistic. That's fine. That's fun. Sofia Coppola did it very well. Those are very beautiful. Aphex Twin Versailles.
- [21:21]
B
Yeah. Genius. It can be done.
- [21:24]
A
This is dog shit. This is the worst I've ever seen.
- [21:30]
B
Yeah. And there's like, going back, there was all these, like, gross sexual scenes and symbols that were like, you know, the eggs in the bed as a practical joke, the snail crawling across the window pane, the kitchen maid kneading the dough in a way that, like, mimicked flesh slapping together during coitus. It opens on this hanging scene that was the best scene. Almost sounds like he's coming. Yeah. And you're like, oh, is somebody dying or are they?
- [22:02]
A
And then she runs with that sex and death.
- [22:04]
B
What if. Yeah. Le Petit more.
- [22:07]
A
We got it. What if a corset is painful? It's all such low hanging fruit. You know, it's just like vulgar girl
- [22:17]
B
boss feminism, but in a new, modern iteration that got the software update and
- [22:25]
A
has become even worse because of, like, kink culture.
- [22:29]
B
Yeah. Like, there's a scene where Heathcliff licks the pussy juices off of Catherine's fingers after he catches her, like, flicking her bean among the rocks, which is just like, disgusting and unnecessary.
- [22:42]
A
People. I've seen step sibling pornos that are more cinematic and valuable than this whole movie.
- [22:49]
B
And like, the thing is. Yeah. The whole movie is also premised on a very appealing and erotic trope, which is an incest fantasy. And they even botched that people were contrasting this with like a scene in Pride and Prejudice. Where the male character who plays Darcy. I don't remember the actor's name, like, brushes against Keira Knightley's hand while she's entering the carriage, which is, like, way more sexy and poetic than anything that you see in this film.
- [23:23]
A
There's nothing sexy about it. It's, like, devoid of eroticism. It is, like, pornographic, but without even really committing to that. It's not like immoral tales. Yeah. Or like some amazing, like, Catherine Brulee movie where, like, you're actually seeing something transgressive happen. It's all, like, very contained, very, like, HR friendly, compliant book talk slob.
- [23:49]
B
Well, it is. Yeah. It is HR Friendly slop on the one hand, but on the other hand, it's just, like, completely, like, tasteless and vulgar in a way that makes you, like, uncomfortable, not aroused. It's like the cinematic equivalent of the fact that you can now buy quote personal massagers at CVS and Target.
- [24:09]
A
Yeah. It's disgusting. It's like the enemy of sexuality.
- [24:16]
B
Yeah. The democratization of sex toys, which I always found to be, like, lewd and offensive and, like, sex negative at the end of the day. What else happened in this horrible, irredeemable film? The. Oh, the other thing that really grinded my gears is that, of course, the character of Heathcliff is supposed to be ethnically ambiguous. He's like this foundling that Catherine's drunk dad brings home from the big city one day because he's sick of being longhoused by women.
- [24:57]
A
Well, that's. There was like, a first wave of controversy when she cast a lordy from, like, woke people with bas. In literature being, like, Heathcliff isn't white.
- [25:09]
B
Yeah.
- [25:10]
A
And to whitewash him.
- [25:12]
B
Yeah.
- [25:13]
A
Instead of casting an actor of color, like, erases the complexity of the book. And like, I guess from what I've gathered, he's supposed to be Romani.
- [25:22]
B
Yeah. He's a gyp. He's described in the book as a gypsy. He's possibly like, you know, a Spaniard or an Indian, something Elardi's.
- [25:28]
A
He. He could pass.
- [25:29]
B
He's a Spaniard.
- [25:30]
A
Yeah, he can pass.
- [25:31]
B
He's. He's just the right amount of ethnically ambiguous.
- [25:34]
A
Yeah, he's actually. That isn't the problem.
- [25:37]
B
He's a swarthy white guy, which is what Heathcliff is, more or less. Which. Yeah.
- [25:41]
A
In Victorian England, wasn't, like, what, White?
- [25:44]
B
Yeah.
- [25:45]
A
So he was like, Othered.
- [25:46]
B
Yes. And actually, that's probably, like, the best decision. He was a whole.
- [25:56]
A
Should have been Adam Driver.
- [25:59]
B
Wait, he's not even Jewish.
- [26:00]
A
No, but he's always doing Jewish.
- [26:02]
B
He's always.
- [26:03]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [26:03]
B
He's like male Rachel Senate, Jew face. That was fine. Jacob Elordius, Heathcliff. He was the right amount of ethnically ambiguous for the role.
- [26:15]
A
But then the entire.
- [26:18]
B
Yeah, the entire cast is like a Chinese woman or Vietnamese woman playing Nally and like a bloody Paki playing Edgar, which completely, like, that was the annoying part because it completely defeats the purpose of Heathcliff being ethnically ambiguous if the whole cast is like, under lit. People of color extras. You can't quote Steve Saylor.
- [26:39]
A
Yeah. You can't cast someone more ethnically different than Heathcliff. He's supposed to be the one that's different. Yeah, it's like, more incoherent than whitewashing. Yeah, it's like, so confused,
- [26:54]
B
almost hostile, spiteful. You know, you had that great line that I retweeted today because somebody quoted you about. God, I'm gonna pull it up because it was really, really great.
- [27:03]
A
Damn, what did I say?
- [27:04]
B
It was from the last episode. And I'm glad somebody noticed it because I feel like people don't listen to us anymore. And, yeah, in the super punishing doldrums of the peak woke era, entertainment had this very spiteful edge. And you kind of spoke too soon because she really brought that back. It has a spiteful, punishing edge, this movie.
- [27:28]
A
And yeah, the Asian actress who also ages too drastically.
- [27:36]
B
She's way older. She's like 50. Margot Robbie is 40.
- [27:39]
A
How much time has taken authorities?
- [27:41]
B
Like 30.
- [27:42]
A
Yeah, but they're supposed to be. They're supposed to be the same age. Yeah, and she ages, like, severely. She doesn't wear sunscreen, so she looks like. And Margot Robbie being like, papa will whip me. It's like, you're grown. Like, that's like.
- [27:59]
B
It's just.
- [28:00]
A
It's like, really disconcerting the way she's acting.
- [28:04]
B
She's the Asian or the. The servant companion. Being a poor Asian woman was actually Kathy, wear your handbag. You find husband. I don't have chance to find husband.
- [28:23]
A
Kathy, you are disgusting. Her tiger mom ass.
- [28:33]
B
She. Her being Asian while grading and annoying in a flagrant way is like, woke. More correct because she. She was like a scolding and scheming project manager who was, like, clearly jealous and resentful of Kathy and her beauty and freedom and youth. And youth. The relative youth. And so she. She was keeping her down by. Through this deception where she was keeping the correspondences that Catherine and Heathcliff wrote to each other away from them. And Burning, like throwing them in the fireplace. Which ultimately leads to Catherine's untimely wasting and death. The most disgusting scene of the entire movie where she's like getting blood lot by leeches because she's in sepsis.
- [29:32]
A
Yeah, right, right.
- [29:33]
B
And then has like a abortion or miscarriage and bleeding all over this pink satin sheets, which I kind of fully
- [29:42]
A
went on my phone at that point.
- [29:43]
B
It's like really repulsive.
- [29:44]
A
I like couldn't even look at it at a certain point. I had to like avert my eyes.
- [29:48]
B
Yeah.
- [29:51]
A
And I don't mind go. I like, you know, I love gore. I don't use like. There's this movie called Inside, this French film about a pregnant woman who's being like stalked by some freak with scissors who's like trying to cut her open. And it's.
- [30:04]
B
It's very like, that sounds amazing.
- [30:06]
A
Cinema extreme, like French wave of like those really up horror movies. And I like that typically. But in this case it's so stylized. It's like more offensive on a taste level than the, Than the gore itself.
- [30:22]
B
It's just unclear what the. What purpose it's hoping to accomplish because. Yeah, it's just like mucky and demoralizing. It's. It's neither sexy nor scary. Well, I have actually, I have a note about.
- [30:43]
A
Sorry.
- [30:43]
B
No, no worries. I mean, the other thing that's like so insulting about them cutting the child heirs out of the movie through this horrid abortive scene. It's not so much that I'm opposed to like the ideological implications of it or even to like the technical deviation from the source material again, but that it's done in such an opportunistic way to expedite this cheesy, corny sexual fantasy that the movie really is about. It's like a paperback novel. Yeah, those are probably much better, honestly.
- [31:31]
A
Yeah. The one where the woman has to work at like the minotaur dick sucking or whatever that people were posting. Well, I. A male friend of mine was like, I feel like feminism is exposing the ways in which like, female sexuality is super, like revolting, like disturbing. And I don't think it's like an innate female sexuality. I don't. Like, something feels. It's like birth, I think birth control.
- [32:03]
B
Yeah.
- [32:04]
A
Or like an overstimulation, overly like pornographic culture or something. It doesn't feel like a natural expression of like, desire or eroticism.
- [32:16]
B
Yeah. It feels like women sustaining, entertaining some fantasy that they think they should be.
- [32:23]
A
Well, it's for people who like, they just want the Intensity. They want to experience intensity. It's like using a vibrator.
- [32:30]
B
Yeah.
- [32:30]
A
Like, you just want the, like, stimulation of intensity, like, devoid of context and meaning. And that's why the body horror stuff, I just think body horror female directors love to do it because it's so accessible and so easy to make, like a feminist y ass gross out, you know?
- [32:49]
B
Yeah. And to seem is.
- [32:50]
A
Look how grotesque it is. Blah, blah.
- [32:52]
B
Like, edgy.
- [32:53]
A
Yeah.
- [32:54]
B
And intelligent doing it.
- [32:56]
A
Exactly. But it's low hanging.
- [32:57]
B
I'm a woman and I'm going there.
- [32:59]
A
Yeah.
- [32:59]
B
I'm doing a menstrual symbolism. I'm doing abortive symbolism. I'm just like Frida Kahlo, y'. All.
- [33:08]
A
And like. And yeah, it is like the corset's too tight. Like, the length. It's like baby brain ass.
- [33:16]
B
Like, she has pig's blood on her skirts.
- [33:19]
A
And maybe the corset's even tighter.
- [33:21]
B
Uhhuh. You can hear her bones crunching.
- [33:23]
A
And it's a symbol of how femininity is oppressive, how women do these things to be beautiful, but they hurt them. But what if the women like it?
- [33:36]
B
What? Yeah, it's like, what? It's like the bizarre, creepy, like, BDSM relationship between Heathcliff and Isabella where he chains her up like a doggy and makes her write letters to Catherine.
- [33:51]
A
And even that. Which is the most transgressive part us, you know, or like, the most cruel or the most, like, even that he. Remember when he had the scene where he keeps asking her, like, do you want me to stop?
- [34:04]
B
Yes.
- [34:04]
A
He's, like, asking her over and over.
- [34:07]
B
I will always be thinking of her. Do you want me to stop?
- [34:09]
A
But yeah, then he's, like, getting cruel and brutish.
- [34:12]
B
Do you want me to.
- [34:12]
A
The affirmative consent that, like, traps it all in this, like, sterile, contractual. Like, the worst thing about bdsm.
- [34:23]
B
Yeah.
- [34:23]
A
Like, act like no one has to actually be, like, accountable for any pain because everyone's, like, consenting.
- [34:28]
B
Yeah.
- [34:29]
A
And so then nobody's cruel and nothing matters.
- [34:32]
B
Yeah. And yeah, it's actually just purely consensual and bloodless. Yeah. For all the. For all the blood. It is a very, like, bloodless film. And there I think she's also trying to do this thing where she wants to be edgy. She wants to be an edgelord and be like, see, I'm a feminist, but I know the truth about female sexuality and. And that it's submissive and likes abuse
- [35:00]
A
and, like, wet and, like, messy, squishy. It's a. Women are Messy. And our sexuality is messy. Is that a problem? But the truth is like everyone, men and women, respond in a health if they're in a healthy like physical, mental, spiritual orientation.
- [35:22]
B
Yeah.
- [35:22]
A
Respond to like restraint and like seduction and discretion. Like these are the things that are like sexy. It's not like a music video of Margot Robbie and like doing it doggy style while Charlie xcx. It's not, it's not brat. Like, it's just not.
- [35:45]
B
Yeah. I mean that was historically like the problem with feminism is that they exposed and quote, normalized things that should have stayed private and discreet.
- [36:00]
A
Yeah. The Victorians actually were really on to something maybe.
- [36:04]
B
Yeah.
- [36:05]
A
We don't need to like bastardize and destroy their frame.
- [36:12]
B
Yeah.
- [36:12]
A
To make the kinky Wuthering Heights. That just looks so bad.
- [36:17]
B
Yeah, it looks. Well, it looks like jumbled, confused, incoherent, which is actually a good allegory for modern day female sexuality. And the fact that you would like effectively abort your child not for
- [36:34]
A
a
- [36:34]
B
great and once in a lifetime timeless love, but for something as like gross and narcissistic and petty as like getting your rocks off and getting your bean flicked by some guy that you're not even that into. You're just into the idea of him because he's like young, tall and hot and you actually don't know what kind of guys you like because you're a modern day like paper pushing, email job feminist.
- [36:59]
A
Yeah. And you're an ss.
- [37:01]
B
I like chads with muscles or whatever.
- [37:04]
A
Tall.
- [37:05]
B
Yeah. If don't even under 61 need not apply.
- [37:07]
A
Don't even match with me on Tinder if you're under six feet tall. And yeah, I like again, I like Elordi. I think Fenell is just a atrocious director. She's missing, you know, even though his. The casting maybe was okay with him. It's so much of it depends on like his height is doing a lot of heavy lifting. The like physical, you know, discrepancy between them. But even then I actually thought that
- [37:32]
B
was weird and unnatural. Like how much taller he was than her.
- [37:36]
A
I think she should have been even smaller.
- [37:38]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
- [37:39]
A
You're more like even more extreme. He should feel even more like monstrous. Yeah.
- [37:44]
B
Like Frankenstein or not again, comparatively.
- [37:47]
A
Nosferatu.
- [37:52]
B
20 smarter, 20% dumber. But this kind of sucks. It's liminal space. Richard Spencer, speaking of liminal space, is really like the movie and saw it as a white supremacist epic retard.
- [38:09]
A
He's just as bad. He's just as bad. As the intended audience for this film who sees it as like, I don't know what, like an empowering.
- [38:16]
B
Because he's a dramatic, womanish.
- [38:18]
A
Yeah.
- [38:19]
B
Who doesn't know what he wants except for, like fleeting power and control over others.
- [38:28]
A
Yeah. Like a sensation of intensity.
- [38:31]
B
Yeah.
- [38:32]
A
People yelling in the rain. They're middle aged, so you don't have to think about how they're younger. How your biological clock is ticking. Nope. Like they are your age, but they have all the time in the world to like, spin their wheels in this, like, dumbass love story with kinky elements that are, like totally above board, sanctioned and consensual.
- [39:05]
B
Here you go. And there's. There's a part in the movie where Heathcliff says to Catherine, like, you know what? You want me to wring his neck? I'll kill him. About her husband and her conscience intervenes and she's like, no, I've. I've fallen. I've degraded myself too much. I've fallen too far. This must end now. But then, like, you know, starves and wastes her unborn baby. Should have just killed the husband and taken his property. I don't really see. I don't really see the, the problem. The conflict in this film, it's like, okay, she married a rich guy to save her family's estate and is having an affair with a formerly poor guy who's now rich. Like, you just keep it moving.
- [39:53]
A
Well, in a.
- [39:53]
B
Not, you know, there's no conflict here.
- [39:55]
A
I mean, in a novel, I assume it's more of like a slow, you know, like Anna Karenina, you know, that's a long ass book.
- [40:02]
B
Yeah.
- [40:02]
A
About a woman who cheats on her husband, kills herself, you know, and that's like a relatively, like, banal drama. But what a novel is able to do and what a film should or can also do, you know, is like make you feel like, attached to these people. So that when these things transpire that are in the grand scheme of things, relatively banal, they have like a charge and a humanity behind them.
- [40:25]
B
Yes. It's like elevating the mundane or whatever. Yeah. I've never wanted a character to die more than I wanted Margot Robbie's cast. I just wanted her to die. I wanted her off the screen. I hated her so much.
- [40:38]
A
I think with a different act, I mean, a whole different movie.
- [40:41]
B
You need a movie.
- [40:42]
A
Yeah.
- [40:42]
B
Sympathize.
- [40:43]
A
You would have been like, oh, God, this poor girl, she, like, can't even control her emotions. She doesn't know what's going on. Like, it's so tragic what's going. What's transpiring. But this year, just like, why is this adult? She got freckles drawn on her damn face.
- [40:55]
B
40 year old woman like me.
- [40:57]
A
She a 4 year old with fake freckles on her face, like, who can't control herself. Like, I don't feel bad for her. I hate her.
- [41:09]
B
Yeah. Like when Nelly tells her like, you're
- [41:11]
A
repulsive, you're a disgrace.
- [41:12]
B
Get up. I was like, yes, you strong Asian tiger mom queen. Tell it like it is.
- [41:20]
A
Yeah.
- [41:21]
B
No, no pity party. No weeping for yourself.
- [41:25]
A
But you just don't. Some actresses, you watch them cry and you are sad.
- [41:28]
B
Yeah.
- [41:29]
A
No, it's like, it's not even her fault.
- [41:30]
B
It's just the whole framework around her.
- [41:32]
A
Margot, it's not her fault. She just shouldn't have been played this part. Apparently she wanted to. She's a producer, I think on it. And I think that's like she. Because she has like market value, which she clearly does because this will be a big box office hit. Like, she was like, I want to play Kathy and Wuthering Heights even though I'm twice her age and maybe not like the appropriate type. And so they just let her do it. And Fennell, like bolstered it with her twisted, stupid vision, but the effect isn't there. It's. You don't feel. I don't. I've. Anytime she. She cries a lot and I never feel anything.
- [42:17]
B
Yeah.
- [42:17]
A
When Kirsten Dunst is crying and Marie Antoinette, when she's like running into the room to be by herself and like sob because her, you know, you feel. You really feel for her.
- [42:27]
B
Yeah.
- [42:27]
A
And she looks so Marie Antoinette, 14. Kirsten Dunst, incredibly cast. Like, looks so young and beautiful and it's like. But genuinely looks like Jason Schwartzman too. It's. You're like, damn. They're just these like clumsy teens trying to figure it out. It's so sad.
- [42:42]
B
But even if they weren't teens, like, you should be able to like. Yeah. Inhabit the. The reality, the consciousness of even an unlikable or problematic character and find something redeeming in them, something relatable. That's like the point of art. Not even movies, but art in general. Yeah. That's my favorite type of art. That deals in unpleasant, unlikable characters or at least troubled, problematic ones.
- [43:06]
A
Right. Or because you see something in them because you have out. You are able to access their humanity and it's something that it's inside you that maybe you don't like and you're everyone's capable of it and you don't. Most people want to look away. So then you have this catharsis. It's like ancient. This is literally like what draw the essence of drama.
- [43:24]
B
Giving like black relationship advice and unpacking. It should be.
- [43:27]
A
I am like, if you're a movie doesn't make care.
- [43:31]
B
But there was. It's just like shocking how just like totally congenitally incapable this movie was in. In drumming up any sympathy or relatability with the characters. And it's equally shocking that so many people seem to like it and it seems to resonate with them. It's so scary. Like, I was always under the impression that if you give people a good product, they will respond. And the only reason they go along with like, subpar products is because, you know, the bar is low and it's all they have at the moment. But apparently not people, girls and gays really like this movie.
- [44:14]
A
It's not even like it doesn't even have like, the pretense of being a good movie. You know, like sometimes the movie's not very good, but people like it because it has like, classy. Like a 24 is very good at kind of like mystifying and like making something seem like classy and cool, even if like the product itself itself isn't maybe there.
- [44:36]
B
Yeah.
- [44:37]
A
But this doesn't even have that. It's also cheap.
- [44:40]
B
Yeah. You know what movie I saw recently? Boondock Scenes, which is, you know, laughable, terrible film, but it's so charming.
- [44:48]
A
You watch any movie from the odds and like redeemable.
- [44:52]
B
And also that guy Norman Reedus is really sexy. Also watched half of this movie called Limitless, starring Bradley takes the pill. Yeah. And Robert De Niro, which is like weirdly like anticipates like our moment Collateral. Yeah. Like people like, popping a magic pill or whatever. And you know, he's some like midwit blowhard who is like depressed and anhedonic and living in like, his like, bombed out, like, Chinatown apartment. And then he takes this pill and suddenly understands, like, global financial markets and like how to play piano and how to speak Italian and French and seduce women. And it's like a midwits idea of what being smart feels like. But it's such a fun good movie in spite of being like, just terribly cringe and bad.
- [45:48]
A
I mean, there's so like. That's what I'm saying. Like any movie from the odds that for my. The Interpreter with Nicole Kimmen, where she works at the un.
- [45:58]
B
Yeah.
- [45:59]
A
Everyone was like, this sucks at the time you watch it now, it's, like, better than any movie that's good in the past 10 years.
- [46:05]
B
I got in trouble, like, in 2019 because I. Because some. I forgot what movie it was, like, Uncut Gems or some other movie. And I was like, guys, watch Carlos Suarez. And everybody was like, whatever, shut up. Which was annoying of me. But it's true. Like, it literally is true.
- [46:18]
A
And like, Uncle Gems Master.
- [46:20]
B
I know, I know. Compared to Wuthering Heights, Uncut Gems is like Citizen Kane compared to this movie. I'm not really a fan of Citizen Kane, but you know what I mean. Literally the best movie ever made. Compared to.
- [46:32]
A
It's on a different level.
- [46:34]
B
Wuthering Heights. Yeah.
- [46:36]
A
It doesn't even feel like a movie weathering. It's, like, insulting to even call it that.
- [46:40]
B
Yeah. No, it is like. Like, if Softy Brothers films are like a sequence of memes, this movie is just like, AI slop.
- [46:54]
A
It may as well be.
- [46:55]
B
It's like, literally slop. You can make a better. Like, you can make a Bet you or I right now could go online and in three minutes make a better movie using AI and feeding it some prompt. Like, anybody.
- [47:08]
A
I know. It's really. I really seldom take this hard.
- [47:15]
B
No, I know. I'm very. I'm very. I mean, I kind of figured that you would hate it. I couldn't imagine that you'd like it,
- [47:21]
A
but no, nothing was good about it. Nothing. Not a single thing.
- [47:29]
B
But, yeah, you're generally, like, way more forgiving and generous than I am. And I.
- [47:34]
A
I'll, like, find something to, like. I want to have a good time. I love 28 years later. Bone Temple. Though it had its Some. It wasn't perfect. It had its flaws. But in highly recommend. Commits to the violence in it and is, like, genuinely, like, weird.
- [47:52]
B
Yeah.
- [47:52]
A
Which is more than you can say about, honestly, most movies. You know what is really good that I'm liking?
- [47:57]
B
What's that?
- [47:57]
A
Is the Ryan Murphy.
- [47:59]
B
Oh, you mentioned Love Story. I'll fire that up. It's good. It's.
- [48:04]
A
You want, like, it's on again on such a different level. And I'm not, like, a huge Ryan Murphy fan.
- [48:12]
B
Right. Yeah.
- [48:13]
A
But I'm kind of becoming one because I liked his Ed Gein show, too, that Addison Rae had a cameo in and thought he was doing a lot of really interesting things. And in this, it's like, yeah, you really want Carolyn Bessette and JFK Jr. To hook up. Right. And you. It's tense. They like. It looks cool. It's the 90s New York Calvin.
- [48:36]
B
The outfits are deuce.
- [48:38]
A
Yeah.
- [48:39]
B
Because we complained about it based on the. There was a lot of. That we saw.
- [48:43]
A
There was a lot of backlash from early press materials that they weren't going to nail it. But they're doing a good job, honestly.
- [48:49]
B
Yeah. I mean, after seeing this movie, I'm never gonna say anything bad about anyone's art again because this is like the worst piece of art.
- [48:55]
A
I don't even want to watch another movie.
- [48:57]
B
Yeah.
- [48:59]
A
I'm like, it's washed. It's over. Emerald Fennell. What is this bitch's problem?
- [49:07]
B
I don't know what the hell. Had some other complaint that I was gonna.
- [49:18]
A
I've got more. I said, oh, there's a. Yeah, I said there's a lot of intensity. They're screaming and crying and it's raining. But they're basically just experiencing, like. There are points where I saw them both just emoting and bless their heart. Both of them act in their hearts out, like.
- [49:38]
B
Oh, like.
- [49:39]
A
But it feels so vacant. Like they're just both emoting at each other and not actually. And part of that's the editing, which is also really bad, right?
- [49:49]
B
Yeah.
- [49:51]
A
But it doesn't feel like they're even communicating.
- [49:54]
B
Yeah. I mean, I thought. I was thinking even about, like, how, like, the set design and the architectural shots are. Were really, like, just bad and incoherent and, like, mixed metaphors. Like they were trying to do some kind of, like, Stanley Kubrick Clockwork Orange placement of contemporary objects into, like, period scenes. Yeah. Like the. The fireplace at the hands, the wall upholstery. That was her. You know, her skin with its blood vessels and freckles and it turns out more like Hellraiser esque. I wish, but it's like pulpy 80s body horror. But even that. Well, you know, it's much better than Hell Rises.
- [50:48]
A
Hellraiser is amazing, but the what I think it is, it's like, it's derivative of Yorgos Lanthimos. Yeah. Which is him. You know, he himself is derivative of other, like, more sophisticated things. But it's like, that's what's so insulting. Like the scene where her father dies and there's the, like, surrealist, cartoonish amount of, like, alcohol bottles around him. Yeah.
- [51:08]
B
And she's, like, kicking his corpse.
- [51:09]
A
That felt very like Lanthimos.
- [51:11]
B
Yeah.
- [51:12]
A
Like, basically a reference to a guy who's still, like, making movies today. That just came out, like, a couple years ago.
- [51:18]
B
Yeah. She's. She's like a small girl who's like, A teacher's pet and good at taking notes, but has no theory of mind for anything. But she's able to, like, mimic, I think, her classic cinema tricks. I guess.
- [51:30]
A
I think her mind is genuinely very small.
- [51:33]
B
Yeah.
- [51:33]
A
And there's something just.
- [51:35]
B
I don't know how to articulate this because, obviously, like, in making a film, you have a lot of, like, creative latitude, but, like, you know, the kind of craggly, demonic look of Wuthering Heights versus the derivative of Marie Antoinette look of. What's the other?
- [51:55]
A
Well, Marie Antoinette is Versailles.
- [51:58]
B
Yeah.
- [51:58]
A
It's like period authentic thrush cross Grange. I felt it was more like the favorite or poor things, where it's this kind of like. Or even like, Hunger Games, you know, where it's like, the wealthy are, like, extravagant and, like, cartoonish, but it has
- [52:13]
B
kind of like, I guess, a rococo. A, like, futuristic steampunk.
- [52:20]
A
Yes.
- [52:21]
B
To all of these, like, historic interiors and exteriors, which felt hate to see it poorly executed and somewhat cheap.
- [52:30]
A
Completely. The materials felt cheap. I don't know what it was shot on, but it. The lighting, the fabric.
- [52:38]
B
Yeah. The color grading even was, like, inconsistent.
- [52:42]
A
It's very, like, spirit Halloween haunted house. Like, the billowing sleep smoke just feels like a haunted house. It doesn't even feel atmospheric. Like, the constant rain feels. There's no. And this is what I hated about prom. Well, the thing I hated the most. Sorry, I'm. I'm all. I'm really chimping. The promising young woman, which also had a lot of bad qualities. One of the worst things about it, I thought, was that it took place in this kind of, like, any town, U.S.A. like, she worked at a. Carey Mulligan was working at that coffee shop. And, like, I guess it's kind of a college town or something. Like, it's like, takes place nothing, nowhere. And this also, like, Wuthering Heights. The damn books named after a place. Like, the place is a character.
- [53:33]
B
Yes.
- [53:33]
A
You know, and if you can't even, like, do the service of, like, creating atmosphere that feels inhabited. Yeah. It all just feels like, set, like, Instagram backdrop. Yeah. Nightmare stuff. It's so bad.
- [53:47]
B
It's like when. When people get, like, black satin sheets and strew rose petals over them and then post it on Instagram or Twitter for Valentine's Day, and all you can think of is the cleanup. Or, like, you know, it's like an Indian person who works as, like, a call center employee trying to, like, reconstruct a canonical American or English period room from scratch. Or. Yeah. Like, you know, it's like, I remember
- [54:28]
A
when people think Donald Trump has bad taste.
- [54:30]
B
Yeah.
- [54:31]
A
They think he's, like, gilded and tasteless. And it's like, look at this, you people. Like the red light. Oh, yeah. And then when her hair. She has the braided hair piece that's also, like, corseted.
- [54:46]
B
Yeah.
- [54:47]
A
Makes you think bondage, you know?
- [54:50]
B
You know, they thought they were serving with the looks.
- [54:53]
A
What if being a woman was kind of like bondage, but she wanted it buy.
- [55:02]
B
Is. It's like breeder king.
- [55:05]
A
Yeah. Back.
- [55:06]
B
Yes. Every woman's fantasy is being raped and impregnated. But then you have to go through with it and have the heir to the dynasty. It can't just be about, like, your office bean flicking.
- [55:23]
A
I mean, they. They don't have sex in the book.
- [55:26]
B
They don't know. That's another thing that, like, there. There's a lot of, like, emotional intrigue and sexual tension. But obviously, like, Emily Bronte was not writing about him, like, licking the pussy juices off of her fingers.
- [55:42]
A
It's just disgusting. That's, like, why people love Pride and Prejudice.
- [55:47]
B
Yeah.
- [55:47]
A
Because it is. Yeah. About the, like, glance and, like, the manners that, like, keep everything, like, under the surface. Like, that's sexy.
- [55:58]
B
And it leads you to, like, extrapolate and imagine and fill in the blanks, which is where eroticism dwells too long.
- [56:07]
A
Are there any yearners out there or just goon. It's like, gooner.
- [56:12]
B
Yeah.
- [56:12]
A
The Gooners have won and the yearners are down bad. But I'm gonna. I'm gonna take a pro yearning stance that. That has way more, like, dramatic artistic value than just some goon fest.
- [56:29]
B
Yeah. And the. The gooning's not even, like, fun or free spirit. It's just, like, mechanical.
- [56:36]
A
Even the substance, which I didn't particularly like. I'm like, at least that, like, it did kind of make me horny because it was edited in this very, like, like, actually pornographic, like, looping way, you know, that does kind of, like, tap into, like, your reptile brain.
- [56:55]
B
And it had a very consistent aesthetic, which, as everyone knows also the. The key to women's erotic desire is repetition, consistency.
- [57:16]
A
Strange. Like, no one actually wants, like, the sex.
- [57:22]
B
Yeah.
- [57:24]
A
Like, they do. But that's like, you know, it's about the build up.
- [57:28]
B
No, I would truly rather watch porn.
- [57:31]
A
I mean, there's.
- [57:31]
B
I would have just watched porn for two hours.
- [57:36]
A
There's, like, definitely.
- [57:37]
B
It's, like, way more interesting.
- [57:38]
A
Yeah. Way better.
- [57:41]
B
Yeah. Sometimes cinematic human watching porn and you hone in on, like, the shitty, like, Revlon hair dryer on the sink vanity or the pantry stocked with shitty junk food snacks. There's so much to see.
- [58:02]
A
It's true. And it is a cinematic form. And it's more honorable than this. Yeah. Like, are women not watching porn? Why do women want this?
- [58:20]
B
Yeah. No, I don't know. I'm sure they are. Like, I don't really understand. Yeah.
- [58:25]
A
Who wants this movie?
- [58:28]
B
Who asked for it? Wait, there was another. Let's see,
- [58:35]
A
like, Elordi was way more sexy as, like, Elvis.
- [58:39]
B
Yeah. Or the.
- [58:40]
A
In Priscilla, when he was like. Yeah. Euphoria, at least. Yeah. It has, like, consistency and it's, like, pulpy. And it's, like, effectively campy in a way that doesn't, like, offend. Mm. But yeah, like in Elvis, when he's, like, doesn't even have sex with her because he's, like, gay and on pills. Like, that's sexier.
- [59:05]
B
To me, the only parts of the movie that rang true were passages of dialogue that were, I think, deployed to be unfairly unflattering to the main character. Like when her dad says, you have no children and nothing to do but make yourself ridiculous. Since you will toss your coins on the floor, you will stay and watch me grope for them.
- [59:26]
A
That was. Yeah. He was the best actor. The girl who played Isabella was good, too.
- [59:33]
B
Yeah.
- [59:33]
A
And I did, like, when she acted like a dog.
- [59:35]
B
We can't say who she's reminiscent of, though.
- [59:39]
A
It's so striking. But when she acts like a dog, that was cool. Even though, like, all of the, like, context about it was really, like, sanitized.
- [59:46]
B
Yeah.
- [59:47]
A
And you didn't actually get the feeling that she had become, like.
- [59:51]
B
Right.
- [59:52]
A
And, like, she even, like, winks at the mean Asian lady to, like, indicate that she's, like, in on it. Yeah. Like, she's not actually being subjected and to, like, cruelty and pain. Like, she's, like, said, like, she's in control. Like, give me a break.
- [60:09]
B
Sure.
- [60:09]
A
Shut the fuck up.
- [60:13]
B
Then there's a point where Kathy asks, why did you leave me? And he was like, well, because you shacked up with another guy and said I was too lowborn for you to marry. And he says, I have not broken your heart, you have broken it. And in breaking it, you have broken mine. Which is very. A very true statement about the nature of female sexuality. Sure.
- [60:36]
A
Yeah. Women are addicted to self sabotage. Like, I get it.
- [60:40]
B
I understand.
- [60:42]
A
But again, it just doesn't hit the same when it's a post wall, you know? Like, Margot's not even postwall.
- [60:53]
B
She's gorgeous. Yeah. Just, I mean for.
- [60:56]
A
I think for poorly utilized and not
- [60:58]
B
the right act for the intents and purposes of this movie. She is. What. Let's leave it post. Well, let's leave it at that. Yeah.
- [61:05]
A
And it's. Yeah. You're like, okay, like, so you're like
- [61:09]
B
not as a woman, not as an actress, but in the context of this film. Yes.
- [61:12]
A
It's like middle aged woman who made a bunch of bad decisions as like a fully developed adult is like upset about them. Like, I don't care. Really.
- [61:22]
B
Huh.
- [61:23]
A
Like, doesn't seem particularly.
- [61:25]
B
And then like narcissistically, selfishly wastes everyone's time by dying for weeks or months. I don't know how long it takes her.
- [61:32]
A
And doesn't like represent anything. Like even in like. Like Blanche dubois, who is also kind of like a monstrous, you know, very female.
- [61:42]
B
Yeah.
- [61:42]
A
Archetype. She has like nobility. She does have like a. A human dignity.
- [61:50]
B
She has pride that she foregoes and betrays.
- [61:53]
A
She betrays herself because she's from this other. She's from like an antebellum time. Yeah. And like her demise is the demise of like a world that has ceased to exist. And so it's like contextually meaningful. It matters. It's like that's what.
- [62:12]
B
She's a pitiful and pathetic character, but you can still.
- [62:16]
A
But she has sympathize. She has a light inside her. She's, you know, like surviving in light of her circumstances and then until she doesn't. And none of that is in Is. I didn't see anything even remotely like that. I.
- [62:32]
B
There's. I mean, yeah, there's no like charm or grace about this character, but there's no particular like viciousness or cruelty either. She's just like kind of a non. Entity, a non factor. And we have to spend like two and a half hours with her. The other thing that just dawned on me now that that's very perplexing is for how like opportunistic and incidental it was of them to, you know, scra. The whole second half lineage arc of the children who grow up in the shadow of their doomed forefathers. Forebears or whatever. The. The lost ba. The dead baby in the movie is a boy when the living daughter in the book is a girl. So it is like this really like cruel feminist angle where she destroys her son.
- [63:33]
A
Right. Is it a boy?
- [63:37]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
- [63:38]
A
I didn't even. Yeah. At that point I was so like, like averting my eyes and like texting.
- [63:46]
B
But they. They Obviously make him a boy.
- [63:48]
A
Not.
- [63:49]
B
Not for, like, ideological, feminist reasons even, but because just for the stock trope reason that he's like, the heir.
- [63:56]
A
Right.
- [63:56]
B
Yeah. So it's more legible.
- [63:59]
A
Which is also, if I recall, like, a plot point in the book that they don't produce a male heir and her. They're like inheritance. Only, like Heathcliff and Isabella end up having a male heir.
- [64:12]
B
Right. Yeah.
- [64:14]
A
And that. So that is who inherits, like, that estate. Yeah, the other one. So that's. But I get it. You can't, like, do all that in a movie the way that a novel can. But you can make a movie that's good on its own merits.
- [64:26]
B
Yeah, of course. I mean, there's. There's a character, Catherine's older brother. I forgot what his name was. Hartley or Hinckley or something, who appears in the book. He's. He becomes the heir to Wuthering Heights after their mean, drunk father dies, and they sort of collapse his arc into the arc of the father. Because at that point, like, that seemed like a fair and reasonable decision because they were just. It would have been too complicated to introduce this other guy. Sure. And this other family line.
- [64:58]
A
Maybe not. I'm sure it's been done. I haven't even seen any of the other adaptations.
- [65:03]
B
Yeah.
- [65:05]
A
Which is why I also feel like I can appraise it in a very objective way. And all of that would have made it better, but not. There's just the lack of chemistry is a structural flaw. Like, the whole story depends on these people having a genuine attachment to one another.
- [65:28]
B
Because the whole idea. Right. Is that they are.
- [65:30]
A
Which is wrapped up with all these
- [65:31]
B
other wild at heart and free spirits in the same way.
- [65:35]
A
Yeah. And, yeah, they have these, like, pathologies. But when you're young, the decisions you make kind of like fossilize and cement your troubled personality into ways that are meaningful. But when you're old, who gives a right? Like, you're already. What the happened?
- [65:59]
B
Who cares?
- [66:00]
A
Yeah. You know, 10 years ago. How long has this move.
- [66:05]
B
I don't. I don't want to see a movie about middle age people being petty and pathetic Unless.
- [66:11]
A
And definitely not horny.
- [66:13]
B
Unless it's a movie about that specifically. And it's like a cruel, ironic, dark comedy. But if it's like we're supposed to suspend disbelief and pretend that these people are actually young and unformed. No.
- [66:31]
A
I think I read that. Yeah. Fenel thought that they were in their late 20s, early 30s. Was her. In her version, she's aged them. But why?
- [66:43]
B
Because for Sexual consent purposes.
- [66:46]
A
Yeah. Because that's how old you have to be. Like consent to sex, which is also gross. Who wants to see that?
- [66:56]
B
And it.
- [66:56]
A
Yeah, there's like. Because modern people, women really are so, like, arrested and stunted, they can't even see, like, a representation of young people who act like them because it'll like, remind them that they need.
- [67:18]
B
They're more prone. Yeah.
- [67:20]
A
So instead everything just panders to this, like, yeah. Oh, this, like, undiscerning modern person that I've really come to hate. But unfortunately, I've really been trying to be less misogynistic, believe it or not. Bad. Wuthering Heights sent me back a full deck. I'm like, women.
- [67:54]
B
Yeah. They're stupid. Yeah.
- [67:57]
A
And so way to go, Emerald Funnel.
- [68:02]
B
I mean, that's what like, I. I don't know if she's like. I don't know if she considers herself like a feminist or progressive or has any politics at all. But like, yeah, this was just like, I imagine, very like, Reddit tier rendition of female sexuality, which you can expect to become to. To like, dovetail more and more with real life as women become more single and childless.
- [68:31]
A
Yeah.
- [68:32]
B
In the ensuing decades.
- [68:36]
A
I'm looking at my notes. Cost S
- [68:49]
B
right.
- [68:49]
A
Bridgerton. Ass infantilized. Oh, yeah. Well, people were talking on Twitter recently about, like, what white culture is. I saw some debates between friends, the Pod LS and Rufo. Early in the film. I got this. I was like, I was like, oh, this is kind of white people. I was like, this is white culture.
- [69:15]
B
Wait, say more. Cuz it's like. Like what? White people of art.
- [69:19]
A
Yeah.
- [69:20]
B
I'm like, demographic response.
- [69:21]
A
Emerald Fennell's like a white British lady. The whole movie. Like, even the diversity.
- [69:29]
B
Yeah. It's that plus overly, like, vulgar explanatory sexuality.
- [69:41]
A
And. And there is something innate, obviously, also in like, BDSM in general. Like, even doing like a bdsm, Wuthering Heights is bound to be stupid. Just a bad idea that's also poorly executed
- [70:01]
B
because.
- [70:02]
A
Yeah. The consent is baked in the compliance, the safety.
- [70:07]
B
Yeah. And yeah, BDSM is another one of those, like, kinks or fantasies that's like. It's like a false consciousness.
- [70:17]
A
Yeah.
- [70:18]
B
Like you think you like it and respond to it, but actually you don't because you're actually insecure and incapable of being vulnerable, which you compensate for by being overly sexually aggressive or submissive. Or submissive, which is its own kind of aggression.
- [70:36]
A
And. Right. Kathy's sexual awakening kind of happens when she sees the scullery Maid and the barn boy and he's, they're having sex
- [70:49]
B
like kinky barnyard BDSM play.
- [70:54]
A
And Heathcliff is there and he covers her mouth and her eyes and then that becomes kind of this. Then that's what she's like fapping to out in the wind or whatever. But not to, not belabor the point, but like when it's a, she's not a tender age.
- [71:17]
B
Yeah.
- [71:18]
A
She's a full grown adult. Huh. Who like has what experience has she had? Not had any experiences in her 20s.
- [71:26]
B
Yes.
- [71:28]
A
In the 15 years that passed when the time jump like.
- [71:31]
B
Right.
- [71:32]
A
What are you, what are we talking about?
- [71:34]
B
Yeah. And like the movie obviously would have been more plausible though less marketable if the character who started out as like a 13 or 14 year old girl played by a child actress stayed that age or like a little older. Yeah. But it was like the same. Yeah. Not a totally different woman.
- [71:54]
A
I mean, I, I, I'm not gonna harp on it too much, but I also found the little girl to be a little charmless.
- [72:02]
B
Yeah. And the boy too. The child actors were kind of nothing.
- [72:08]
A
Yeah. And very much felt like a stand in for Emerald Fennell, huh?
- [72:16]
B
Yeah, I guess.
- [72:16]
A
Why is Kathy even blonde? Get real.
- [72:18]
B
I know.
- [72:19]
A
Come on.
- [72:20]
B
This whole movie is sailor's law. It is. What? It's, it's dumb.
- [72:28]
A
How's that?
- [72:28]
B
Roasty Floyd's being dumb. Roasty Floyds. Because it's like I'm gonna cast a woman who's relatable to me personally, who's old, fat, blonde, Not at all like the character was intended to be. I also just so that in the coming revolution, my type is considered hotter. It's like that. That's the logic behind this movie.
- [72:59]
A
I hate the hairstyle that looks like a little devilish. Like the roll pin curls rolled up. Feels like. Not like obviously Kathy had frizzy hair. Yeah, obviously she had nutritional deficiencies.
- [73:18]
B
Yeah, she was, she was like pale and wavish like a, she probably had bad spectre stalking the marshlands.
- [73:26]
A
She's not supposed to be like a PSL 10 Stacy Healthy Horse Girl. No, she's supposed to be like a sickly kind of ethereal beauty, but basically like a kind of like sabotaging devious freak. Yeah, that's the fucking point.
- [73:45]
B
Yeah, no, I know. I mean it is really just like women casting themselves as like the object of the sexual fantasy.
- [73:59]
A
And for what? Who cares?
- [74:03]
B
It reminded me of all those like like reels and tiktoks that right wing guys make fun of on Twitter. Where like girls are complaining about not being able to find like a boyfriend or a husband and then they're like
- [74:18]
A
crying in their car.
- [74:18]
B
Yeah, they're crying in their car. Like crying at the office, like eating salad with a fork. The. And like the joke being that they're suffering from Hoeflation and want like a six foot four, like Hollywood handsome blonde, blue eyed chad.
- [74:38]
A
Whole math.
- [74:39]
B
Yeah. And should just like settle for like a normal 5, 10 guy who may or may not be balding.
- [74:48]
A
Get real.
- [74:50]
B
This is what that. This is like the movie version of that.
- [74:54]
A
It's. It's a red flag. Like I said, it really heralds something and it unfortunately.
- [75:01]
B
Yeah. Like it's speaks to like also the narcissism of a generation. Because I think a lot of like confused and misguided contemporary women get off on the idea of like a guy having an abortion. Yeah. But like a guy being like sweet and tender to them but. But brutish and rude to everybody else, which is a big red flag. You should be turned off by a man being rude to other women.
- [75:25]
A
Well, that's probably present in the book as well. Yeah. Maybe that they're both like complicated and I think Heathcliff is like villainous.
- [75:33]
B
They're both walking red flags.
- [75:35]
A
Oh, I'm not gonna read it. It's coming.
- [75:38]
B
I'm gonna read it. What else do I have to do? I got nothing going on.
- [75:47]
A
I. Yeah, maybe I'll watch another film. Maybe I'll watch this Juliet Binoche film adaptation.
- [75:53]
B
That could be good. Yeah.
- [75:54]
A
Or there's like a. They're only one that I've surmised in my research that does the whole sweeping epic is like a BBC miniseries.
- [76:02]
B
Oh, that makes sense.
- [76:03]
A
Because it would have to be quite long to tell the whole story. So I do understand why usually it's truncated into the Heathcliff Cathy thing.
- [76:10]
B
And I don't, like I said, I don't expect it to be like faithful to the source material, like to the letter. But again, like the way that it, like what it omits is very tell. It's a telling, revealing, depressing, demoralizing. The way that it goes about being unfaithful to the source material speaks volumes.
- [76:32]
A
Asian. Asian.
- [76:35]
B
Yeah.
- [76:37]
A
Yeah.
- [76:37]
B
And that's just. I. I can't imagine that's there for any reason other than to irritate the audience or like browbeat them into compliance.
- [76:44]
A
Of course.
- [76:45]
B
Totally subconscious, you know. Yeah.
- [76:48]
A
Because she's not even like a real character. She very much is just like a prop. She's always reading that fucking book. She just kind of, like, comes in when it's like, except expedient. She doesn't have her own interiority. No one really has any interiority.
- [77:01]
B
That's true. Yeah.
- [77:04]
A
So, I mean, I found the actor who played Edgar to actually be good. Him and Isabella both were, like, strong performances as well as the dad. Yeah. But in the whole thing, they were in the gestalts. They were all just misutilized and, like. Anyway, we could wrap it up. Yeah, sure. That's the movie. We watched it.
- [77:33]
B
See you in hell, Sam.