Toe Math

Summary

Podcast Summary: Red Scare – "Toe Math" (June 17, 2025)

Red Scare is a cultural commentary podcast hosted by Anna Khachiyan and Dasha Nekrasova, known for their incisive and often provocative discussions on contemporary societal issues. In the episode titled "Toe Math," released on June 17, 2025, Anna and Dasha delve into a range of topics, including a controversial sex tape leak involving journalist Glenn Greenwald, the dynamics of Pride Month in corporate settings, the implications of AI-generated content, and broader discussions on masculinity and relationships.

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1. Introduction and Setting the Tone (00:32 – 01:07)

Anna and Dasha kick off the episode with playful banter, referencing animated shows like Beavis and Butthead and Daria, highlighting their casual and irreverent style.

• Anna (00:32): "We're back."
• Dasha (00:33): "We're back."

2. Pride Month and Corporate Engagement (01:28 – 02:40)

The hosts discuss the current state of Pride Month celebrations, noting a decline in genuine corporate support and an increase in performative gestures on social media.

• Dasha (02:17): "It feels way... It doesn't hit like it used to."
• Anna (02:37): "Happy Pride Month. Glenn Greenwell."

3. Glenn Greenwald's Controversial Sex Tape Leak (02:40 – 08:22)

A significant portion of the episode centers on the leaked sex tape of Glenn Greenwald. Anna and Dasha express skepticism about its authenticity initially but acknowledge its realization. They explore the lack of mainstream media coverage, suggesting possible conspiracies.

• Dasha (02:40): "What a way to kick off Pride Month with the race play Findom sex tape."
• Anna (04:00): "Is today I tried to see if... but when you look it up. No."

4. Conspiracies and Media Blackout (04:00 – 05:24)

The duo explores why mainstream outlets like The New York Post and Daily Mail have largely ignored the scandal, speculating about hidden agendas or conspiracies.

• Dasha (04:11): "That is interesting."
• Anna (04:29): "Total blackout?"

5. Public Reactions and Defense of Greenwald (06:24 – 09:16)

Anna and Dasha analyze the public's defense of Greenwald, noting support from various conservative figures despite the scandal. They discuss the perception of Greenwald as a "freedom fighter" and explore the complexities of separating personal actions from professional reputations.

• Dasha (07:22): "People seem to think that he had a hand in leaking it himself."
• Anna (08:22): "He said it was leaked for political reasons."

6. Masculinity, Relationships, and "Toe Math" Concept (10:00 – 22:26)

The conversation shifts to broader themes of masculinity, self-improvement, and relationships. They critique certain self-help paradigms, discussing topics like hypergamy, the challenges of modern dating, and the societal pressures on men and women.

• Dasha (14:13): "It's like being loyal to your friends."
• Anna (15:11): "They don't buy boys."

7. AI-Generated Content and Ethical Concerns (41:03 – 43:51)

Anna and Dasha address the issue of AI-generated nude images, referencing a case involving a New Zealand Member of Parliament. They critique the use of such technology for personal illustration versus malicious intent, questioning the effectiveness of legislative responses.

• Dasha (42:04): "She showed an AI generated nude image of herself in Parliament."
• Anna (43:07): "She held up the pixelated picture."

8. Language Policing and Social Media Dynamics (75:15 – 125:50)

The hosts delve into the complexities of language policing, particularly concerning derogatory terms. They discuss the impact of social media algorithms on public discourse, the reclamation of slurs, and the broader implications for empathy and community relations.

• Dasha (117:21): "When disability is framed as a lack limitation or loss..."
• Anna (124:02): "Yet, really, it's the degradation and power."

9. Concluding Thoughts and Reflections (126:04)

In their closing remarks, Anna and Dasha reflect on the challenges of navigating modern societal issues, the importance of self-awareness, and the impact of public scandals on personal and professional lives.

• Dasha (126:04): "See you in hell."

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Notable Quotes

• Anna (02:37): "Happy Pride Month. Glenn Greenwell."
• Dasha (06:24): "But he's a freedom fighter."
• Anna (07:22): "If Glenn was a more of a dark triad personality, I would almost concoct a version where he leaked it on purpose."
• Dasha (14:13): "It's like being loyal to your friends."
• Anna (24:38): "Is it a sin to suck on a man's foot? Is it a sin to send him $2,000? I don't think so."
• Dasha (75:15): "Men are literally built civilization so women could administer its decline."
• Anna (124:02): "They sure are."

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Insights and Conclusions

• Media Influence: The episode underscores the significant role media plays in shaping narratives around public figures, suggesting that selective coverage can perpetuate or obscure scandals.

• Social Media's Dual-Edged Sword: While platforms like Twitter amplify voices, they also escalate controversies and spread misinformation, complicating public discourse.

• Gender Dynamics: Anna and Dasha's discussion reflects their critique of contemporary gender relations, emphasizing perceived imbalances and societal pressures on both men and women.

• AI and Ethics: The conversation on AI-generated content highlights the ethical dilemmas posed by technological advancements, questioning regulatory measures and personal accountability.

• Language and Empathy: The hosts argue that the policing of language can stifle genuine communication and empathy, advocating for more nuanced conversations around sensitive terms.

Toe Math offers a candid and critical examination of current cultural and societal issues, blending personal opinions with broader thematic explorations. Anna and Dasha's discourse invites listeners to reflect on media influence, gender relations, and the ethical implications of emerging technologies.

Transcript

[Anna]

We're back.

[Dasha]

We're back.

[Anna]

Anna's doing a Beavis and Butthead. Chuckle laughing.

[Dasha]

I don't remember how the jingle goes. Something like that.

[Anna]

I. I remember the Daria theme song. Yeah.

[Dasha]

Wait, how did that one go? We could probably. Yeah, we could probably do a good Beavis and Butthead.

[Anna]

Definitely. People say we be like that anyway.

[Dasha]

Yeah. I mean, I. I remember back in the early days of the pod, we did solicit people. We made the T shirts. The T shirts. Yeah. And people came up with some really good drawing. This is before AI, so.

[Anna]

Oh, my word.

[Dasha]

Handmade, lovingly.

[Anna]

No slop detected.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Only real fan art.

[Dasha]

Happy Pride Month.

[Anna]

Oh, yeah. Happy Sacred Heart of Jesus Month.

[Dasha]

What does that mean?

[Anna]

It's like a Catholic rebrand of June, where we express our devotion to Christ's Sacred Heart.

[Dasha]

Yeah. True. I can't believe these faggots still have Pride Month. Can't they pack it up and pack it in already?

[Anna]

They had a really small. I went to Sephora today. Big surprise. And they had a really tiny, like, kind of pride banner out front. But I haven't seen so much, like, corporate signaling this year. Definitely.

[Dasha]

I feel like it mostly occurs, like, on social media now. It's like. It's like the Yankees and, like, Snyder's Pretzels and Hess or whatever doing the. The flag. But it feels way. It doesn't, dude. It doesn't hit like it used to.

[Anna]

No one's buying it. Yeah.

[Dasha]

But.

[Anna]

Happy Pride Month. Glenn Greenwell.

[Dasha]

Yeah. What a way to kick off Pride Month with the race play Findom sex tape. I woke up to, like, dozens of people sending me that video and being like, get a load of this. And I was like, no, no, no. This is AI. It's fake.

[Anna]

That was my first thought when I saw it. But has come to pass that it is indeed real. Indeed real. I.

[Dasha]

Glenn Goonwald. Sorry.

[Anna]

I mean, nothing but love and support for Glenn here. No one sent it to me. I like.

[Dasha]

Dude, it was. It was so bad.

[Anna]

And I caught wind. Caught a later wind of it.

[Dasha]

Yeah. Well, it took so long to take off. It was like, at least 12 hours from when I got those texts. Yeah. In multiple group chats to people on Twitter. Really making it, like, a viral discourse.

[Anna]

Well, you know what's. So. I don't know. I found this curious.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Is today I tried to see if. There I was like, surely this is, like, a major news item, but when you look it up. No. Like, mainstream media.

[Dasha]

That is interesting.

[Anna]

It's all, like. It's All Hindustan times all the way down. And like, no one, not even like the New York Post.

[Dasha]

Mm. Has. Yeah, no, you're right.

[Anna]

At all. Like, really, it's like I was like, what?

[Dasha]

Total blackout?

[Anna]

Not that, like, you know, I wanted like a big scandal. Sure.

[Dasha]

But you would think like, yeah, like the nypos, the Daily Mail, like those type of outlets would pick it up.

[Anna]

I think there was maybe a one like Daily Mail article, but am. That really feels like Jewish conspiracy.

[Dasha]

I didn't watch the video.

[Anna]

I didn't watch the whole thing.

[Dasha]

I've seen the stills.

[Anna]

I started watching it and then kind of scrubbed through.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

But no, I didn't watch it with laser focus the way some people did.

[Dasha]

I just clocked that he looked good and trim and tan, so I was like, okay, this is better than nothing.

[Anna]

It's not so bad.

[Dasha]

It's not. It's. Yeah.

[Anna]

It's shocking.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

But not. It's like it feel. It's like edging the. There's no.

[Dasha]

Yeah. So it's like, basically it's Glenn wearing like a sexy schoolgirl outfit, sucking on a black guy's toes, which is, you know, relatively tame as far as gay stuff goes.

[Anna]

So I hear.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

I mean, it was. I thought it was really nice. See how many people are riding.

[Dasha]

Rallied behind him. I have some takes on that. My, My first thought was that he should have just let Bolaro lock him up when he had the chance. Cuz I bet you Brazilian prison is full of jacked black guys who are into that sort of thing.

[Anna]

Right? But he's. He's a free man.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

He's a freedom fighter.

[Dasha]

A lot of people seem to think that he had a hand in leaking it himself. Certainly there was some speculation that he retweeted it in the wee hours of the morning while high on math as.

[Anna]

Part of a escalated.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Blackmail. Bdsm.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Gooning sesh. He denies it. I believe him.

[Dasha]

Yeah. And I feel like Glenn's a good sport, so he'll take it in stride if we discuss it here on this podcast. And plus also, I'm hearing that he has a humiliation kink, so maybe this will be a welcome development. But yeah, everyone from like Megyn Kelly to Charlie Kirk to Tucker Carlson basically lined up to defend him. All of these like, conservative luminaries.

[Anna]

I mean, if Glenn was a more of a dark triad personality, I would almost concoct a version where he leaked it on purpose.

[Dasha]

Huh.

[Anna]

To draw attention.

[Dasha]

Uh huh.

[Anna]

To his Tucker interview.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

But like, yeah, it's like a long game 5D chess strategy about. Because he went on Tucker like the.

[Dasha]

Night before or something.

[Anna]

I don't know when they taped it, but the. That day or something. The interview aired. And in that clip, he talks extensively about foreign intelligence and Epstein and Mossad and how they blackmail people by holding compromising information and footage about them. It all feels very like, whoa.

[Dasha]

Well, okay. Howling Mutant actually had a good take on this, if I can find it anywhere. You know, we're living in an empire in decline when the NSA was unable to blackmail this guy into silence during the Snowden scandal. Probably like the funniest take I've seen on it was that this idea that Mossad leaked it to punish him for his vehement anti Israel and anti Zionist stance, that feels a little bit overwrought.

[Anna]

He said it was leaked for political reasons. Yeah, to discredit him. And.

[Dasha]

But like, how. Okay, in what world is it discrediting? It's like.

[Anna]

Well, it backfired.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Because everyone loves it. Actually. Actually, we think it's based.

[Dasha]

There's. There's a lot of people saying that, like, oh, this erodes his credibility as a journalist. Not. Not really.

[Anna]

No. We knew he was gay. Yeah.

[Dasha]

And we know what gay guys are up to.

[Anna]

I mean, some people, like, you can.

[Dasha]

Fill in the blanks with your imagination. I. I do understand how this looks to, like, normie conservative people. It looks really bad and immoral and degenerate. Like, I. I get where they're coming from. It's very scandalous.

[Anna]

Well, one of the problems with X is the democratization of voices.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And Glenn, bless his heart.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

He's always up in the replies, engaging with, like, low B haters, like true followers, correcting them with his powerful, litigious mind and stuff.

[Dasha]

Same drive, by the way, knows.

[Anna]

Yeah. We all know is not a good use of our time. Yeah. But we can't help ourselves. So that's. I find that very relatable.

[Dasha]

Yeah. I like. I like that take from that guy Sophie Hadid, who I met in LA, by the way, that he bought the skirt on Dasha's depop. But.

[Anna]

But yeah, like there's. So, you know, the. The people like, denouncing his degeneracy are just like a bunch of nobody, literally. Who's. Who haven't done anything in their whole life. Probably do way worse, even if not outright. Well, okay, they've like, are repressing deep, dark desires and then do maybe non. I think like, in the grand scheme of things, people are up to Way worse. Not, I mean, even like non sexual.

[Dasha]

I'm sure.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

I mean it has guys like Martin, who's like the new ringleader of the right in a tizzy and, and he wants to know why any who considers themselves a conservative would ever go to bat for like a gay Jewish liberal who engages in like race communism, humiliation rituals. I think I have a good answer for Martin. Like, I think a lot of people are defending him out of professional interests. Some people are defending him out of some like, broad principle of the matter, however real or misguided it is. I think it makes people feel good to like rally behind someone in defense of them. I think to leap to somebody else's defense.

[Anna]

I think people feel, you know, kind of moral impulse because Glenn is so like, like people do genuinely like him.

[Dasha]

Yeah, well, he, he does everything in his power to cultivate the opposite impression and he's likable in spite of himself. But yeah, that's what I think. There's also like an innate tension between like coastal elites who are desensitized to this sort of thing and like heartland Americans who find it beyond the pale and like, morally abhorrent.

[Anna]

I don't even buy that though. I feel like with like the Internet ever, everyone is desensitized. It's hardly the worst thing they'd see seen on X that day.

[Dasha]

Yeah, well, there's that video going around now of that like 19 year old girl like accidentally leaping to her death because she was like skydiving or something and unbuckled her belt during a panic attack. People are like hornally like gooning to that probably.

[Anna]

Yeah, no, people on X especially are exposed to hardcore pornography, snuff videos, drone footage.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And on an average tl. Yeah, I feel like I, I think the hand wringing is performative.

[Dasha]

A lot, A lot of it is. But like he himself even pointed out that this has never happened to him before because people are usually like mad at him. Which seems to add fuel to the fire of his. The theory that he has a humiliation kink and wants to be not only shamed but like adored for shameful acts. I really can't speak for anyone but myself, but to Martin's point, it's like I know Glenn to be a good and kind man again in spite of the image that he tries to cultivate for himself. And I take like matters of like, honor and loyalty very seriously. I take them to heart. So given my like, personal dealings with him, I have no choice but to defend him.

[Anna]

I mean, yeah, it would be really Dishonorable when he was one of the first people to champion our vital female voice.

[Dasha]

You know, those are my politics. That's really all I care about to people who are constantly asking me, what are your politics?

[Anna]

Sure.

[Dasha]

It's like being loyal to your friends.

[Anna]

I mean, it's certainly not like getting upset about people's sexual proclivities. Even if I wasn't a close personal friend of Glenn Greenwald, I mean, like, I still wouldn't.

[Dasha]

Well, we wouldn't, because we're such huge fag hags, and we're used to, like, our gay friends, like, spilling their secrets to us. And, you know, it'll be some guy being, like, meeting you for lunch and kissing you on the lips and being like, hey, I just, like, had sex with two separate guys. I'm like the Sniffies app. But again, I get how this looks to, like, actual conservative people. Their argument is that, you know, essentially his identity, his proclivities are the enemy to them. They're not only disgusting and immoral, but they're, like, subversive and ruinous to the social fabric. And I, I.

[Anna]

What do they. What do they think gay guys do?

[Dasha]

Well, yeah, but, like, I don't disagree with them in principle that, like, gay and trans identity shouldn't be pushed on people. And I don't disagree with them in principle that there are serious questions about, like, gay adoption and surrogacy.

[Anna]

I mean, but surrogacy, obviously, but adoption. I. We can't get the Internet, but I.

[Dasha]

Think it is true that some gay guys probably literally buy boys off the Internet.

[Anna]

They don't buy boys.

[Dasha]

I think so do. But I obviously, like, side with Glenn in this. And, you know, Matt Walsh was really taking him to task.

[Anna]

Well, yeah, guys like Matt Walsh and Martin and, like, other right wingers make the erroneous connection between homosexuality and pedophilia.

[Dasha]

Yeah. When it's really all about ephebophilia.

[Anna]

Well, together, that's normal. That's just a normal sexual orientation. But, I mean, Glenn's clearly not a pedophile, judging by what we have confirmed visual evidence of his private life. Like, what's he going to do to those kids? Send them $2,000 on PayPal?

[Dasha]

I mean, I think, like, Glenn is a person who has been troubled in his life and has had his struggles and is very well aware of his own dark side and is very good at compartmentalizing that because he has a very strong, like, ethical, moral center.

[Anna]

I mean, is that not, you know, psychologically what sex is for?

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Obviously not. It's for procreation. We know that.

[Dasha]

But, like.

[Anna]

Desire and its fulfillment in your private life is, I think, for healthy people, is a kind of pressure valve.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

For other things.

[Dasha]

Yeah. And like, you know, all these conservative guys are also getting in line and saying, like, I can't believe he was, like, smoking meth with a male prostitute in his home where his children live. And it's like, have you ever entertained the idea that maybe it was a hotel room and probably not his home?

[Anna]

Of course not. Because they want to draw the worst possible conclusions. Possible conclusions. I mean, his sons are all grown.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And pretty well adjusted, it seemed to me.

[Dasha]

I would also add to that, like, Glenn has never tried to normalize or promote gay or trans identity. I think, like, the right wingers would say that he's doing that merely by existing. But I think also, like, his work speaks for itself.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

And, you know, I say that as somebody who has probably some serious political disagreements with him, especially when it comes to stuff like immigration.

[Anna]

I don't. I just think he's so smart.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

That I kind of deferred ahead. And I wouldn't even say I disagree with him because he has the receipts and he's definitely knows what he's talking about more than I do.

[Dasha]

Well, he's, like, way more left wing on the subject of immigration. For example, he was really defending Mahmoud Khalil in a way that I wouldn't have personally, I think.

[Anna]

Well, he's really doesn't like the Israeli surveillance.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And I think he was defending him not because he was an immigrant, but on the principle of the matter that in the. An anti Semitic task force.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Can oust you.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

From a country you had previously been allowed to be in.

[Dasha]

Yeah. And these are all, like, complicated issues. Gray areas, whatever. But obviously, like, the bigger issue is not that, like, gay guys are groomers and pedophiles in this case. It's like, it will be, like, destabilizing and disorienting for the kids to see their father exposed and then insulted like that. And you have to trust that everything will be fine because it'll be, like, handled correctly and tactfully. And I thought he was very classy in the original statement he issued. He didn't try to, like, deny or deflect.

[Anna]

No, I would have said that wasn't me. I mean, I'd rather have a total flamer, degenerate father than a, like, Matt Walsh.

[Dasha]

Well, that's what they were sort of arguing about. Yeah.

[Anna]

Like, I think it's Way worse to have like some seething freak as your parental figure than like a gay lawyer.

[Dasha]

Yeah. And my favorite take on this saved.

[Anna]

You from a favela orphanage. Yeah, you know, like that seems like the best possible outcome.

[Dasha]

Yeah, like cool rich dad. My favorite take is from our boy Moldovan breaking Glenn Greenwald is gay. Being gay I can handle, but I draw the line at race mixing. Don't Glenn and his black fin dom realize they're ruining their bloodlines? I would say, like, if there's one thing I've learned from all my years of being a fag hag to gay guys is that the less gay a guy seems, the more degenerate he is. And Glenn's pretty gay. He's not exactly hiding it. He's maybe not promoting or normalizing it, but it's pretty obvious.

[Anna]

Yeah, no, no, sure.

[Dasha]

So this to me seems like, you know, he could be gayer.

[Anna]

He could be rollerblading and stuff. He's pretty buttoned up in his presentage.

[Dasha]

Well, to your point, about like you'd rather have a flamboyant, openly gay dad than like a seething, repressed conservator dad. My genuine question to like the right wing and on guys is like, you know, if we can all agree that gay sex is like unnatural and non procreative and then therefore sinful from like a Christian standpoint, by that logic, isn't all non procreative sex then unnatural and sinful? And that given that gays are the minority, isn't it worse when it's coming from the majority?

[Anna]

I mean, technically, yeah, like I'll do.

[Dasha]

A little ho math. Like, isn't it worse that normal, not normal, but like young, healthy, able bodied males are like performatively gooning to anime girls instead of doing their part to like restore, you know, the white race's pride of place? Well, from a Christian perspective, revive our society?

[Anna]

Yeah. I mean, from a Christian framework, yes. It's all any sex that's outside non procreative.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Well, even I guess you're allowed to have non procreative sex if you're married.

[Dasha]

Right. But like, I, I also understand that it's all a matter of degree. Right. Even if you're gay guys are worse than straight guys in that.

[Anna]

I mean, if we're using sin as the framework, as the category of transgression.

[Dasha]

Right.

[Anna]

Even procreative sex with someone you're not married to.

[Dasha]

Yes.

[Anna]

Even if you're busting inside someone that's not your wife, that is a sin.

[Dasha]

Yeah, but isn't like, the greatest sin then being a heterosexual person who recognizes the threat our society is faced with due to gay race communism and, like, refuses to do anything about it outside of, like, posting on the Internet. And I'm not going to take the bait and, like, make the obvious joke that they're all, like, incels who never. I'm also not going to make the point that you could probably make the same accusations of their major ringleader, who shall remain unnamed, because I love that guy and we'll go to bat for him, too. But.

[Anna]

I mean, we know.

[Dasha]

But, like, those kind of accusations have been made and dominated.

[Anna]

It's a dominated by Doug.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Scenario all the way down. And actually, from a Christian perspective, just to get really, you know, the. In the video, no sodomy detected. He's not having gay sex. So if you want to get kind of litigious, I can put my glass, you know, per the teachings of the church, technically, I mean, he. The worst part is when he says, you're my black God. That's blasphemy. That's. That's maybe worse. The sex. But he's not having sex.

[Dasha]

Well, we all know God is black, so it's not wrong.

[Anna]

But that's the most simple part of the video.

[Dasha]

Not like City of God hours up in there.

[Anna]

Is it a sin to suck on a man's foot? Is it a sin to send him $2,000? I don't think so.

[Dasha]

Well, it is a sin when you're sitting outside of your baby daddy's East Village apartment trying to have a cigarette, and a black eye comes and tries to suck on your foot. That's a sin for sure.

[Anna]

Yeah, but that's a consent issue.

[Dasha]

You know, in my mind, like, a lot of these guys have some pretty good ideas that I'm sympathetic to about, like, restoring the Anglo code of honor and the Anglo concept of fair play, which is, you know, noted and heard. They deeply identify with it, and I'm deeply simpatico to it.

[Anna]

Fair play have to do with it?

[Dasha]

Well, I'm just. The question that I want to ask is, like, where's the honor in posting on Twitter for engagement and a payout?

[Anna]

It's worse than ever.

[Dasha]

Like, you can't claim to have honor if you are concerned with things like follower count and online clout.

[Anna]

Well, I've been saying this for a bit, is that the monetization of Twitter was a huge mistake. Because that's why, you know, it's just guys being like, should a husband do the dishes? Sound off Below, like, here, read my thread on how to then go to.

[Dasha]

Therapy and be like, it's like, the worst. Yeah.

[Anna]

It's like bullets beyond even just, like, memes or, like, riffing on a meme format in a kind of, like, group thinky way for engagement. It's like, people are literally mining for engagement.

[Dasha]

Yeah. That's dishonorable.

[Anna]

It's horrible. They're pro. They're all. We're all pro here.

[Dasha]

Yeah. I'm not even being, like, overly harsh or a provocative. I'm not trying to put anyone out. This is just, like, a serious, genuine question I have.

[Anna]

It's noted, and I agree. It's.

[Dasha]

That also brings me to another take that I've been seeing this guy, Jason Whitlock, who's like, some black Christian pundit, said serious, thoughtful replies only. Can you separate Glenn Greenwald's courageous journalism from his immoral, degenerate personal life. Is there a scripture to guide us here? Please share. Thanks. First of all, that's so condescending. And, like, secondly, this is basically like, a more convoluted way of saying, like, can you separate art from the artist?

[Anna]

Well, he spoke out in support of him initially and said that he'll pray for him to be released from homosexual sin, but that he's.

[Dasha]

And was like, yeah, like, quoting some scriptures and stuff. And it's like, okay, like, when you're young and idealistic, you're like, yeah, absolutely, totally. Yes, you can separate art from the artist. That's the only way forward. And then as you get older, you realize that actually those two things are totally inseparable. Like Woody Allen, R. Kelly, Anthony Weiner. People have certain sick and twisted personal drives that inform and motivate both their personal lives and their public achievements.

[Anna]

I mean, I've got a news flash for people. If someone has done anything of note or, like, had the ambition or drive to. To be successful in any capacity, they.

[Dasha]

Probably have, like, skeletons in their closet. Maybe literal ones or just.

[Anna]

Yeah. Like, some eccentric proclivities, let's say. Like, they're not gonna be, like, normal quote people.

[Dasha]

Right. Because, you know, if you're a person like that who's, like, exceptional and high achieving, you're either just like a straightforward egomaniac or you're like. You have some kind of, like, you know, frankly, narcissistic messiah complex, which I want to get into with this homath guy, which I don't. You. I don't say that pejoratively because I think a lot of those people have actually done A lot of good in the world.

[Anna]

I mean, Glenn for sure.

[Dasha]

And. Yeah, Glenn is one of them.

[Anna]

Glenn is a force for good.

[Dasha]

Yeah. Like, his work speaks for itself. I understand that he's a gay Jewish liberal, but, like, these people have to be willing to permit that. There are good and honorable gay Jewish liberals who may be, like, the exception that proves the rule, but they exist and they're valid.

[Anna]

I mean, he's. I think part of the reason Glenn is so actually well liked and respected is because of his consistency.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Even people who don't agree with him on, like, his fundamental political beliefs still have admiration for him. That's why, to me, it is, like, a really good litmus test of. It's, like, beyond politics. Like, if you're some. If, like, you use this as an opportunity to post about gay degeneracy or denounce Glenn for whatever reason, you've, like, kind of lost the plot. And to me, the integrity of his character has always been intact.

[Dasha]

Right.

[Anna]

He's never been, like, a craven opportunist or a backbiter.

[Dasha]

No. That's what I'm trying to, like, I guess, telegraph to these people.

[Anna]

It doesn't matter that he's, like, literally.

[Dasha]

Just a very good and kind person with a heart of gold. That probably actually gives him a lot of grief and pain at the end of the day.

[Anna]

Sure.

[Dasha]

Of course he's a messy bitch who lives for drama, but he's our messy who lives for drama.

[Anna]

I know. I wish he would have come on.

[Dasha]

The show, but I know. I get. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not gonna denounce Glenn Greenwald for gay sex acts, but I will denounce him for not responding to my dm.

[Anna]

I mean, I bet he's got a lot on his plate right now, but we really. I really was like, he's gonna. He'll do it. He's gonna want to queen out with his best friend friends Anna and Dasha after this one and blow up some steam.

[Dasha]

He's gonna be so, like, addled and agitated. He's really gonna make us fight to the death.

[Anna]

I mean, he's not a li. He's also not a liar.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And, like, I feel like, truly, if he was, we would know. Yeah.

[Dasha]

I mean, I feel his pain. I think that it pains him a great deal to not be a liar because it's a very unenviable place be in.

[Anna]

Well, I saw him arguing literally, with some, like, absolute nobody, total loser, you know, who's like, you're Smoking meth. And he's like, posting long replies and they're like, you're not addressing if you were smoking meth. And he's like, well, I don't feel the need to. And I was like, damn. He can't just say he's not smoking meth because he's so honorable.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And I think that's admirable.

[Dasha]

Yeah. If he's, like, doubling down on that stuff, it's not because he's such a gay degenerate. It's because he's, like, a righteous contrarian and, like, can't let them have it. He can't give him an inch.

[Anna]

I really thought. Yeah. With his initial kind of classy statement, I was like, oh, I bet he's not gonna. And sure enough, I looked at his feed today and I was like, damn.

[Dasha]

He is.

[Anna]

He's always up there arguing. Yeah. Like, inadvisable maybe, but, yeah, really cool.

[Dasha]

It makes me feel better about myself when I argue with certain insane and deranged losers who shall not be named. And I'm just, like, trying to get my point across. It's like falling on deaf ears.

[Anna]

I know. I know. Yeah.

[Dasha]

And I'm like, no, you don't understand. It's not, like, political or ideological. You are mentally ill. And in infringing and trespassing. I'm a sovereign citizen.

[Anna]

Yeah. A couple years ago, I gave up fighting with people on Twitter for lent, and Glenn DM'd me that he was trying to do the same. But we can't, you know?

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

It's so hard, especially when you have a couple drinks in you and you're.

[Dasha]

Like, out there being a champion for truth and justice. It's not even about you. It's like defending the principle of the matter.

[Anna]

Well, to that Christian pundit, I saw that guy. I don't know who he is.

[Dasha]

I have no idea either. But I just noted that he was one of the louder voices.

[Anna]

Well, the thing is, Glenn wasn't even in his own replies. He was in Matt Taibbi's replies. Because Matt Taibbi posted the, you know, let he who is without sin cast the first stone. And then people were piling on him. And then Glenn was up in those replies.

[Dasha]

Oh, I'm going to pull up the Matt Taibbi thing. Because he said something so, like. I think it was, like, only half intentionally funny, but it was so cute. I wonder if I can find it. I, like, liked it so long ago.

[Anna]

And TB was.

[Dasha]

Oh, somebody said all this points to Taibi. Must have Some pretty depraved going on. It's like an account with 179 followers. And then Taibi quote tweets them. I've been married for 15 years, have three children and live like a monk. Good luck finding any quote depraved shit.

[Anna]

I mean, God, you know, it's a blessing to have a low libido in a lot of ways. Yeah, but you'll probably be less successful.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Then some of the perverts out there making a name for themselves.

[Dasha]

True. Well, Taibi's like a wholesome Chungus wife guy, and he's been tearing it up.

[Anna]

Well, didn't he. Don't people drag him for, like, his.

[Dasha]

Russian style me too stuff? Yeah, that was. I mean, we've talked about this so many times on the pod, but that was such a funny moment. And I don't know if anybody has the receipts because I've been looking at them forever, but I swear to God, maybe this is some, like, weird replicant memory that I have that's, like, totally, like, fake and, like, implanted. But I remember back then when all these, like, leftists and feminists were dragging him for, like, raping Russian women because they were disempowered and dispossessed, and he, like, pretended to issue, like, a mea culpa, but was. That was like, actually, you. I'm not apologizing. I swear to God. He did that. I don't think I'm ringing a bell, but you can't find that anywhere.

[Anna]

Well, he shouldn't.

[Dasha]

And then. Well, all. Then all the Russian girls who worked in the office came out and were like, no, he was perfectly good and decent boss. He bought us lunch.

[Anna]

Yeah. I mean, people love to post some of my independent film work as, like, a damning.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Condemnation of me as, like, a porn. Porno actress or. But much like Glenn, if you just don't. It doesn't. It's keep you. They can't get you if you don't care.

[Dasha]

Yeah. If you don't.

[Anna]

If you say, this is. Yeah, this is my career. I mean, I'm trying. Like, I'm such an empath. When I first saw it, I was like, oh, God, like, how he must feel.

[Dasha]

Yeah. You know, I was thinking about the kids and how bad it would be for them.

[Anna]

I mean, how many. Like, not that we're, like, collectively reproducing so much, but.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

How many of the people who do end up having children will have, like, even if not an only fans?

[Dasha]

Like, you know, I can think of a Couple. Yeah.

[Anna]

There's, like, gonna be people out there who are not homosexuals.

[Dasha]

Right.

[Anna]

Who have a digital footprint. Let's say that's, like, pretty. Gonna be. It's gonna gross. A lot of kids are gonna be grossed out in the future.

[Dasha]

That's kind of, like a sad fact of life that you have to live with now.

[Anna]

Yeah. You know Riley Reid has a kid.

[Dasha]

Yeah. Well, I remember when I did the pornhub podcast with Asa Akira. She's like, do you ever worry how, like, your statements and Persona will reflect back onto your kid? I was like, bro, damn. But I love that hoe, too. She seems so, like, nice and wholesome.

[Anna]

I don't think it's, like. I just think there's things that parents inflict on their children that are far worse and more damaging, that, like, aren't. They don't code the same way to people because they're not, like, overtly sexual. And everyone has all this, like, hysteria about sexual salacious traumas and stuff. But, like, I think there's, like, way more, like, insidious and permeable.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Like.

[Dasha]

Like neurotic.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

Codependent dynamics that people introduce way or way worse. And we all know that, like, Glenn is way too online to be a smothering dad.

[Anna]

I mean. Yes. Mothering, neglect, like, weird Freudian dynamics that are introduced because people haven't compartmentalized, you know, their desires correctly and slated them into the right kind of parts of their life. So then they end up. There's just. I think, you know, it's a minefield out there. So it's not something I'd like to see. It's not a position I'd like to see my father in.

[Dasha]

Right.

[Anna]

But I don't think it's the worst.

[Dasha]

I think it's. Yeah. It's something that, like, you can get beyond if you have enough. They know love and they know he's gay. Yeah.

[Anna]

And they were, you know, they've seen worse.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

In the grand scheme of things.

[Dasha]

Not from, like, the inside of a Brazilian orphanage. Yeah.

[Anna]

And, like, the. I'm sure, you know.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

When your life is hard enough, you don't get bent out of shape.

[Dasha]

Yeah. About that kind of stuff.

[Anna]

True.

[Dasha]

Should we talk about the AI Nudes lady? Speaking of sexually salacious stuff.

[Anna]

So. Yeah. An MP in New Zealand, which, I mean, I guess this is common practice in, like, the uk, but I didn't realize mp.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Stands for Member of Parliament.

[Dasha]

Oh, wait, I weirdly knew that. But, yeah, it's. Yeah. It's a common designation. In countries that still hold the parliamentary system.

[Anna]

That's so dumb. Don't you think that's dumb?

[Dasha]

Why?

[Anna]

Cuz it's just like there's got to be a better kind of word or.

[Dasha]

Like a better abbreviation.

[Anna]

No, not even an abbreviation. Just like, I mean we have congressmen, you know, we have like senator. We have like a word that means their job.

[Dasha]

Parliamentarian.

[Anna]

This weird like acronym.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And I just, I didn't.

[Dasha]

I was shocked to learn that was the thing. Anyway, this is this bitch called Laura.

[Anna]

McClure, who's a right winger by the way.

[Dasha]

And she showed an AI. Well, she couldn't be outclassed by Nancy Mace.

[Anna]

All these right wing are the same.

[Dasha]

So crazy. They want to talk about degenerate gays, let's talk about degenerate women. She. She showed an AI generated nude image of herself in Parliament to highlight the dangers of artificial intelligence. What they're not telling you is that apparently she leaked or she generated the image herself. So it wasn't like some simp or stalker on the Internet.

[Anna]

She said that? Yeah, she said it took me five minutes.

[Dasha]

Oh, okay.

[Anna]

And it wasn't even hard to find because she was using it to illustrate a point of how easy it would.

[Dasha]

Be to picture herself slightly younger and.

[Anna]

Hotter to make the deep. Yeah, but she also blurred it herself. Yeah, that's not like a media filtering. She held. She held up the pixelated picture.

[Dasha]

That's so gay and annoying.

[Anna]

Yeah, which doesn't even make her point. Yeah, because it would be way more shocking.

[Dasha]

Yeah. If she just. Yeah, because she's like teasing, edging, whatever.

[Anna]

She should have made it of like another member of another mp.

[Dasha]

But she wanted to have her cake and eat it too. Because she wanted to like introduce sexually suggestive thoughts about herself in people's minds, but also wanted to avoid being condemned as like a slut and a whore. Time and time again when these things happen, you're really confronted with the black pill that it was a big mistake to give women voting rights and let them hold political office. At minimum it's like net neutral, but probably a net drain. Like women cannot help but make everything about themselves. Here's.

[Anna]

Wait, here's. Yeah, this is the quote from her. So she held up this photo to introduce a deep fake digital harm and exploitation bill and said it took me less than five minutes to make a series of deep fakes of myself. I'm so sure. She goes on. Holding that up in Parliament was absolutely terrifying. It did rattle me. But she did it because she is Worried about the impact deepfake sexually explicit material is having on young New Zealanders. Here's another quote from her. For the victims, it is degrading and it is devastating. It gave me the ick having to stand in parliament and hold up the photo of myself, even knowing that it's not actually me. What do you, what do you mean? Have to. Second of all, what do you mean gave you the ick? You're like 50.

[Dasha]

Yeah. And it's like. And like, yeah, you, you, you want people to goon to you, but you can't even offer them like a real image. There should be a criteria that if women want to serve in office, they have to publish their nudes for vetting.

[Anna]

Yeah. She's like a libertarian.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

But like she's combating wokeness.

[Dasha]

Women always like introducing this like, added layer of like plausible deniability to avoid responsibility and accountability at all costs.

[Anna]

You remember when like hashtag, I'm 14.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

When people were posting photos of themselves as a 14 year old.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Ostensibly to highlight how young and innocent.

[Dasha]

They were, but really to showcase how fuckable they were because now they're like paramenopausal.

[Anna]

Okay.

[Dasha]

The people are gonna get mad at me because I said once that like women are midwits. Which, like, which like. Okay, like most people are obviously midwits. And the, the difference between men and women is that there's like greater variation at the extremes among men. But it's like women suffer from this classic like midwit fallacy where they really do confuse like the personal and the political. Like they can't conceive of anything beyond themselves. Like morally, ethically, politically. Like all of it is downstream of their need for like, attention, validation, something like that. And like, it just like doesn't occur to them that there's anything beyond them. So they'll do shit like bring their baby to like the parliament or senate floor, whatever, and like breastfeed them to prove a point or like threaten to leak their news.

[Anna]

I mean, the deep fake stuff is such a non issue. Honestly.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Like, compared. Compared to like the, the real dangers of AI.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Which are like the total erosion of information, like labor implications, like how many people will not have jobs because of it. It's like way more important to address. Yeah. And then the defects which aren't going to be stopped. If anything, they're gonna just like sad over saturated.

[Dasha]

And if, if anything, they're going to be really good for you. As we've mentioned before, because when you're Glenn Greenwald Sex tape hits, you can just outright deny it and say it wasn't me. When you make a racist comment on Twitter that they dig up getting really good. Yeah.

[Anna]

They really got my voice and cadence down for all these manufactured clips.

[Dasha]

But it really is like such a serious problem. Like, you know, it's like, obviously women can be like perfectly good and even exceptional, like wives, mothers, friends, people. They can prostitute, prostitutes, they can be kind, funny, extremely intelligent, etc. But like, it's. It is so true that they just really, again, do not have a concept of like honor or morality outside of themselves for the most part. And you know, people will call me a pick me for saying that, but it is like just very like sad and alienating to live with that knowledge.

[Anna]

I mean, at least in more civilized and developed countries, conservative women have sometimes like a Christian or religious framework.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

That keeps them, you know, governs their conduct. Or at least even if they're like hypocrites, it's, you know, they still have like a moral posture. Yeah, but New Zealand is a country of atheists.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

It's a secular society even. They're like right wingers, don't believe in anything.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

So they don't have, they like, don't have a moral compass.

[Dasha]

Yeah. And I was thinking about like the response to that homath post from women specifically, which roughly fell into like two camps. Like, one was, you know, you're an incel and a loser and you're just projecting because you're miserable and bitter. Well, let's talk about a shut in.

[Anna]

Let's give a little context.

[Dasha]

Well, we'll get to that. This guy who is, I guess, like kind of a influencer guru.

[Anna]

Extremely popular.

[Dasha]

Yeah. And I learned. But. And then the second one was, you know, it's not too late. There's still hope for you. You just need to like, grow up and settle down. And you know, the first one is very predictable. It's sort of just like the nature of the game on the Internet, like, people name calling instead of like, you know, substantively engaging with the argument. Because there's nothing more cringe than like putting your cards on the table, showing.

[Anna]

Your cards, making like a confessional.

[Dasha]

No, I, I know, but I mean, like the response to him of women being like, oh, like, babe, like, don't worry, there's still hope for you. And like. But the second one, I was thinking, like, what's that all about? Like, you know, because it's apparently like a sympathetic message. Like, don't lose hope. You got this. That One really annoyed me because, like, as directionally correct as it is, it's probably even worse than calling someone, like, a loser and an incel. Because what they're doing is, like, personalizing it. They're making it about themselves, like, according to the sailor's law of female journalism. And like, of course, none of these women are actually, like, asking for homemath to pick them or vying for his attention. They don't really care about him as such, which is, like, normal and healthy on their parts. But what they're essentially saying is pick me. They're saying, like, well, there's someone like me out there. Why haven't you figured it out? They're just disgruntled because he's making a case for himself by way of a confession that has nothing to do with them and their needs and desires. Like, it's over invested. It's over personalized. Do you see what I'm saying? And like, yeah, in the first case, they're like, preemptively rejecting him by calling him an incel and a loser so that he doesn't reject them first. But in the second one, they're literally crying out into the ether, why not me? Which is like such a, you know, woman moment.

[Anna]

I mean, well, let's.

[Dasha]

Yeah, we can get. We can get into the context.

[Anna]

So ho. Math. Yeah. Is I was under the. From the judging g. From gauging the response to him, who I was not familiar with prior, I assumed he was like a pickup artist kind of heartis sort of manosphere type of figure.

[Dasha]

He does make a lot of, like, basically watered down heartiste points. Yeah.

[Anna]

Right.

[Dasha]

But he's way on Twitter.

[Anna]

Hartiste was like, I mean, a master of the form. I'm a big fan myself. But he was like, you know, deliberately kind of confrontational. And what hometh does is actually much more benign.

[Dasha]

Yes.

[Anna]

And I did, like, a whole deep dive.

[Dasha]

I know. You're, like, crazy for that. I was so impressed with you. Like, such a, like, natural, like, researcher and journalist. I was like, I know.

[Anna]

I'm like, I bought. I bought the PDFs. Yeah, well, because then I was like, trying to look at all of his. Well, first of all, at first, I kind of, like, didn't. I was kind of like, what? You know.

[Dasha]

Well, if you stop at his Twitter presence, you could be led to believe that he's like, a miserable and bitter incel if you're retarded or. But then, yeah, he has this whole, like, dossier PDF and YouTube videos. Yeah.

[Anna]

And it's Very distinct, I think, from like, typical manosphere content.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Because his underlying message really is. I mean, it's pretty chair. Like, he's. It's pretty charitable. Like, he talks explanation explicitly in his videos about, like, what men should do not to, like, trick women into having sex with them, but to like, bring something to the table to make women want to be with them through, like, improving.

[Dasha]

To enhance their own value.

[Anna]

Yeah. He's very like, actually. Well, I also was very. I'm very charmed actually, by him because he's so.

[Dasha]

I'm so glad you say that. I have a lot of like, compassion and sympathy for him.

[Anna]

Well, I love that he's so bad at drawing.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And that he's.

[Dasha]

And writing.

[Anna]

And writing and like, has found such success that he also made it in spite of himself. I mean, I gave him $18 today to look at these PDFs.

[Dasha]

I felt, come on, the pod man.

[Anna]

They were like, totally. They look like something a schizophrenic. Schizophrenic person would hand me. Like outside the UN it looked like.

[Dasha]

A exhibit MOMA PS1.

[Anna]

I was like, what. What the is. What are you saying? But then in his videos, some of which I watched, he, like, talks you through his diagrams.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And there is like. Yeah, he is trying. I mean, he's trying to make money.

[Dasha]

Right. Of course. But.

[Anna]

But he's also like.

[Dasha]

I don't think that's the whole story.

[Anna]

He's giving very, like, data driven, pragmatic advice.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

To.

[Dasha]

He's basically trying to reverse engineer for extremely online people who have, like, sissified themselves into having autism. What instincts, what intuition is or whatever. And I was thinking about how like one point that he makes, actually, which is the point that I want to make, is that, you know, women can be very bratty and narcissistic and, you know, frankly, so can men. But often their view of like, a successful relationship is like having their needs and desires met without meeting the needs and desires of the other person.

[Anna]

Well, he talks about this, about how that's a very low mode of like, flow conscious where you're very, like, you're self motivated. You don't. Or you're not able to see that other people are also self motivated.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And so you just want to be like, loved for who you are. Yeah. And expect that from people even though you don't offer them anything in return.

[Dasha]

Yes. Yeah. And that's like, where the relationship starts to break down. Like, men do this too, of course. But if you've ever tried to, like, you know, buy a birthday gift for a woman or take her to dinner. It's like really a minefield because there's basically nothing you can do. Right. And women get the ick from everything. And people don't understand this very obvious thing that, like, you get your needs and desires met by meeting the needs and desires of the other person, but only if it's mutual and they want to do it, too. And he, homemath, is basically asking this in a slightly more artistic way where he's saying, like, most people ask, you know, what can the world offer me? Which you should be asking, what can I offer the world?

[Anna]

What can I do for my country?

[Dasha]

Yeah, exactly. So here's the post. It's way too late for me to have a real life. I'm not getting married. I'm not ever having a real relationship. I'm never going to build a house or buy one and make it the way I like it. I don't have the time or energy for any of that. I'm an adult adolescent until death. Now I got no chance to start any sort of a life that makes sense.

[Anna]

You.

[Dasha]

You know I'm 40, right. I'm not in great health from stress issues stemming from the pandemic, and I can't handle 100% of my own needs, never mind a family. Sure, there's a lot I can contribute to the world, but I'm not going to get much back for it. No matter how much money I get, there isn't much I can do with it. Maybe get a nice place to live or a car, but not a real life. Obviously. Like, he can't have a relationship based on what I've gleaned from his PDFs and YouTube because he's, like, highly neurotic and extremely online and to the point that, like, consumes all of his energy and makes him tired. Yeah, he's so tired of his work.

[Anna]

Which is like making car, like little drawings.

[Dasha]

Yeah, basically like having a girlfriend. And, you know, God forbid starting a family would infringe upon his Internet addiction and lifestyle empire. It would be intolerable to him. And also I was thinking, like, based on his, like, rapid and unexpected success, like, he probably had to confront the darkness of humanity or of human nature in, like, a really short time span, which made him even more, like, paranoid and demoralized.

[Anna]

Well, I think he taught. He describes his kind of. He used. He lost 100 pounds, allegedly, and was in his, like, hyper. Hypergamy chart of, like, you know, all women pay attention to Eights, nines, tens, but seven below are like basically non entities in the sexual marketplace. He's a big, like, sexual marketplace value type of guy.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Which I don't believe in. I've been told it doesn't matter if I believe in it because it's like just a reality.

[Dasha]

Well, he's, he's trying to like, over codify instinct or intuition, which doesn't work.

[Anna]

But it does work, you know, in that, like, I think people are so broken.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

That even just addressing.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

You know, like the fundamentals of like, don't be fat, take a shower.

[Dasha]

Yeah. Like, try to be presentable to the opposite side.

[Anna]

Well, that, like, I think people are down so bad that even his most like, pragmatic common sense insights or like, with the way and the way that he like, presents it. Yeah. It's resonant because it does work for people because they do see their lives improve.

[Dasha]

Yeah. And I mean, you. You could like, make the case by.

[Anna]

Doing the bare minimum.

[Dasha]

This guy is not merely being honest, that he's actually making a confession and throwing himself like a pity party. And you wouldn't be exactly wrong. But like, to tell you the truth, I found that post very relatable, even as like, a woman who did the right thing and had a family and didn't come to regret it. Well, and it's not like, because like, on account of my, like, personal romantic failures or loneliness or anything. It's because, like, this one thing really stuck with me, which was that I really vibed with his characterization of himself as like an adult adolescent, which reminded me, of course, of like, Welbeck's line on how we're all old kids now. And you know, I went back to that Welbeck quote, and in his reading, it's not feminism that's to blame for the ills of society. It's a general, like, contempt for hatred of the old. Though you could also make the case that the old are what, you know, gave us feminism. Of course. But the one place that I thought he was wrong is that it's not just like terminal bachelors like him who are like old kids or adult adolescents. It's all of us. I mean, like, even those of us who are married and. Or have children.

[Anna]

For sure.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Or like petulant and low functioning.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

But I mean, hearing you read it, read it just now and after having looked at some of his output, it's interesting because he doesn't really. He's not really like, bemoaning his lack of a real life he's actually just stating facts, which I also found like expecting to get kind of like misogynistic manosphere content, like actually most like, even though I disagree with them fundamentally because I don't have like a quantitative view of human relationships in that way. But he was, he is very like autistically kind of like just stating facts.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And like categories and like, you know, life's not a flowchart, it's a pigsty. And that's where we really differ, I think. But, but he has. But like also in that post, like, he's not saying like boohoo, he's kind of just saying what. I don't think he wants to necessarily change his predicament because he doesn't.

[Dasha]

He, he likes it, he enjoys it. When I say like likes or enjoys, I don't mean that he really like consciously likes or enjoys it. I think it gives him a lot of anxiety and grief. But he prefers it that way.

[Anna]

Well, I don't know if it does because his whole like self maximization kind of like project coursework, flowchart PDF has to do with like a very honest. You have to. The step one is to figure out what you desire.

[Dasha]

Right. And so like work backwards from that versus like working backwards from your like biases.

[Anna]

Right. And then to think about what you desire, take in the external output of your situation.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And then modify your behavior, appearance, whatever, accordingly and receive feedback that then there's another step in there somewhere. I don't totally follow it, but I think if he wanted a family, he could have one.

[Dasha]

Yeah, he could reverse engineer that.

[Anna]

Yeah, he would. But I don't think he does. Like, I don't hear that in what he says.

[Dasha]

No, he must stating prefers to be like terminally online and making a statement.

[Anna]

Fact that he isn't going to have these things.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Probably in part though he doesn't say this, but because they're not a priority or something that he, he desires enough to like modify.

[Dasha]

Exactly. Yeah. And that's why I was pissed off by all the women coming out and saying like, don't lose hope, there's still hope for you. Because again, they were making it about themselves and this guy was being like.

[Anna]

Honest doing that as well.

[Dasha]

And like one of the arguments you see a lot from both men and women that I got a lot when I like retweeted him is that you shouldn't take this guy's advice because he's a black pillar. And it's an argument that like a lot of people who make it don't fully understand themselves. He's, he's not a black pillar because he says like harsh and defeatist things about female psychology and like male oppression or anything like that. But because his whole thing, his whole brand is like bumping people up to the next level of metacognition which is fundamentally like unwelcome. You know, that kind of knowledge is frankly demoralizing and dispute spiriting to live with. You become one of the walking dead. You don't want to be in that position. Like once you see you can't unsee. And I'm always eternally, perennially surprised by how your average person, even people who are quite smart are very resistant to having any kind of self knowledge or self critical criticism that isn't like a deflective cope. Like nobody will ever like go the full like take it there and like acknowledge what their real like flaws and faults are. Which I understand. I'm very sympathetic to that because it's like the ego's pain.

[Anna]

Paper thin.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

You know.

[Dasha]

Yeah. And like that was, that was sort of the argument made by James Lindsay. I still don't know who that is and don't care to find out. And I know a lot of like right wing and ons really hate him. So you know, according to them this was more like and smears from Lindsay because he's like apparently in an open marriage and has like a mud shark daughter stepdaughter. But he was making this point that like you can't take advice from a guy like that because he's like bitter and miserable in a black pillar and so on and so forth. But you know, I said this on Twitter. But the idea that you can't take advice from someone because they don't like, don't perfectly live up to what they preach is like one of the most pernicious midwit beliefs ever.

[Anna]

Fallacy detected.

[Dasha]

Sometimes people just give good advice because they have lived experience and see the world for what it is, you know, even slash. Especially because they're a little up.

[Anna]

I mean he seems like he's definitely crunched the numbers at least I don't think, I mean a lot of people should take his advice. I mean one of his, his advice is frankly good.

[Dasha]

I don't detect any bitterness or misery in what he's saying.

[Anna]

One of his most like salient talking points from what I've gleaned is that because of the hypergamous kind of like model of heterosexual relations, a lot of women and men, but women especially because they get attention from Men kind of no matter what, even if they don't see them as like serious relationship prospects. Well, that they overvalue themselves. That most people are statistically mid.

[Dasha]

Yes.

[Anna]

But most people don't think that they are. So they overestimate their punching weight or whatever it's called.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And end up in like a cycle of like situationships and like unfulfilling relationships in which they're like desires aren't being met because they're not, they're not casting.

[Dasha]

A wide enough net. Like it's like the, the article that you sent me about Tinder introducing the filter for height.

[Anna]

They're not pairing with people that are matched equivalent are able to, to bring.

[Dasha]

To the so called table because they're like delusional.

[Anna]

A lot of women are straight up delusional. They think they are the table and don't have to bring anything to it.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And so then they end up like you know, trying to couple with men who are out of their league who have lots of other mids.

[Dasha]

Yeah, yeah.

[Anna]

That are available to them that also don't bring anything. So there's no reason for them to be picked. Yeah.

[Dasha]

They, they, they never stop to again ask the question of what can I offer this other person versus what can this other person offer me? And like, also like, frankly, most advice that you see on Twitter is like humble bragging. It's like women flexing on other women by giving tips on how to become like an age gap trad wife. Or like men calling every woman ugly and retarded as like a point of pride. And like my feeling is like if you can get past that, I automatically already want to hear what you have to say. And the other thing that I would point out is that like I don't want to, I don't want to say this publicly because I'm going to be accused of being like ugly and undesirable in a single moment. But with all due respect, we're all losers in the game of love. Every single one of us. Even if you win in the end.

[Anna]

Not me.

[Dasha]

Well, even, even if you win there be seen. But even if you win in the end, you were once a loser.

[Anna]

Like, oh yeah.

[Dasha]

Love is a, is like a game of trial and error. You strike out a lot. Love is one of those things. Is that account Dimitri, who usually posts Cole pointed out on Twitter is that like you can do everything right in the game of love and still lose.

[Anna]

I mean, Homath would disagree. No, but it's like room to improve and that you'll see statistically better results.

[Dasha]

Yeah. But like, with all due respect, it's like most relationships are statistically doomed to fail.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

Many marriages are statistically unhappy. Like, it's very unclear whether you will ever find the right person. This is something that people, all people, no matter how like accomplished and attractive, grapple with all the time. It's just like very hard to find a person who you truly get along with and who sees you. I saw a really good tweet that was like. I forgot to like bookmark it or retweet it or whatever. But it was like, you know, you have to let go of the hardest vanity to let go of is. Is the desire to be understood.

[Anna]

Well, yeah, no one's. I think that in its own way is like a low level of consciousness. Even that desire.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Because it is egocentric and rather than like venturing to understand someone else, you like displace your purpose into being understood. But really there's like a mutual exchange in which neither is like perfectly understood. Yeah.

[Dasha]

You're like colliding against each other like bubbles. That's what all dating is now.

[Anna]

I mean. Yeah, it seems that way.

[Dasha]

I guess the worst thing that I can. I was talking to my old friend, gay analyst, who's like an old head of right wing and on Twitter who's like, I don't, I don't want to air him out, but he's like the sweetest and kindest and gentlest man and he was like disagreeing with me and we were like going back and forth and I realized like probably the worst thing that I could say about hometh is that he seems kind of like spiritually Asian, if not actually Asian. Like there's some Asiatic. Well, again, type of vibe with him.

[Anna]

The utter like reductive privileging of quantitative information over. And he has he. In his self maximization video, he has like many anecdotes that he points to. To. And he's not like so aut. Like he does have like a sense of humor. That's not, you know, I don't find that funny. But like he. That, you know, he is attempting at kind of like a satirical tone, I guess. But yeah, he tells his. In his. From his own lived experience. He lost 100 pounds. There was a woman. He went. He claims he went from a 4 to 8 and then was like, I don't know enough about his lore to know like when he reformed, I guess.

[Dasha]

Oh no, he.

[Anna]

Because now he's.

[Dasha]

I guess he. He talks about this in that interview that you sent me in man's world.

[Anna]

Basically, that he was, like, not reformed attractively, but, like, then he proceeded to have, I guess, a lot of sex with. He was hypergamous.

[Dasha]

Yeah, but that's what I'm talking about. Like, he really, like, learned the ins and outs. Like, stared into the abyss of the darkest side of human nature in a very short period of time. Because he. He. Almost overnight, he went from being, like, a nondescript, nameless, faceless loser to being, like, a popular Internet Persona.

[Anna]

Well, that was. He says that when he was at his most hypergamous, he was not yet. He was broke, but he got physically. He became more physically attractive.

[Dasha]

So women were lusting after him, but they weren't loving him.

[Anna]

Yes.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

So he was having lust but not love in the flowchart.

[Dasha]

And.

[Anna]

Then after that, something with COVID too, then. Yeah, he be. He's very re. He only recently started kind of, like, doing this.

[Dasha]

I know, but I found that also very relatable in. In terms of, like, even, like, the podcast, because we were, like, totally broke, directionless losers. And then it took off really quickly, like, almost overnight, and you have to grapple with all these effects.

[Anna]

But I think his glimpse. That is to say, I think his glimpse of the abyss.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And when he was, like, before. Yeah, yeah. Prior to this arc. And when he was, like, having lots of indiscriminate sex.

[Dasha]

Yeah. But then the other thing I will say about him is, which I think.

[Anna]

If he was Asian would not be the case.

[Dasha]

Yeah. Maybe he's not Asian. He could have gone spiritually Asian.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

But because he's, like, unmarried and child childless and. And has no hope of getting those things in his present state and doesn't really want them, it really almost feels like he's transferring his, like, paternal impulse onto helping others. He, you know, however imperfectly. But he even says this in that Man's World interview he's. You sent me. He says it's not solving problems that I like. I like being useful to people. I believe that a hundred percent.

[Anna]

I mean, he's not, like, a total altruist.

[Dasha]

He.

[Anna]

He is. He g. He does, like, personal coaching sessions of people for money.

[Dasha]

Yeah, he has. I mean, he obviously has, like, some kind of, like, narcissistic messiah complex.

[Anna]

Well, I think he wants to also make money.

[Dasha]

Sure. But I. I really just, like. I'm trying to, like, I'm making this about myself and thinking about, like, my own relation to this, and, like, my, like, kind of overwhelming driving force is to help others. By getting them up to a new level of metacognition, which often backfires because people resent it and find it to be like presumptuous and condescending, which is, you know, it's like, it is like narcissistic messianic to even think that way. But it is true that he's probably like helped a lot of people. Like he talks about how he's like had fans and followers who were like total like basement dwelling incel gamer freaks who took his advice and then met a girl and got married. So he's obviously like not a net drain on society.

[Anna]

And which is why I think he ultimately does not want to have a family or I quote, real life.

[Dasha]

Uh huh. Because he's more useful in this position.

[Anna]

And he's doesn't want, doesn't want it because if he wanted it, he would know.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

He would apply the 48 rules of power or whatever.

[Dasha]

Yeah. And it gives him a certain, I guess, satisfaction or peace knowing that he's helped people without giving somebody like full responsibility, without being smothered by them. I don't think he could tolerate at this point at least being like married with a kid, which is something that you have to respect. My two cents about it is that he's probably like not met the right person yet.

[Anna]

Maybe he won't.

[Dasha]

No, that's a, that's a real possibility.

[Anna]

And it sounds like he's realistic about, about that. I mean I shouldn't say it's like not hard to get married, but.

[Dasha]

I.

[Anna]

Think if more people did take his advice, however flawed, but at least like appraised themselves more accurately and tried to not just improve themselves but like, yeah, be a benefit to someone else. That they would have better results in their interpersonal relations if they like bothered.

[Dasha]

To step outside of themselves and care about other people, things will automatically just click into place for them. It's so obvious.

[Anna]

Maybe not automatically, but he eventually I think if you do the right things, you'll have right outcomes.

[Dasha]

Yeah. Or maybe you won't, but you could kind of rest easy knowing that you tried.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

I like this quote. The, the guy, the interviewer says studying psychology. You studied psychology too. Anything that states or even suggests that men and women might be different can be pretty contentious. People can get pretty upset pretty quickly. How much screeching do you get about that? And he says a lot, but it doesn't bother me. As long as the screechers don't have any power, I just don't care. I don't respect them they're clearly wrong. And I think most of them know they're wrong and I think they're saying it anyway as a virtue signal. And I can't imagine being so evil. They're disgusting to me the way they tell lies and that they know are lies just because everyone around them is saying it. Which makes me think of what you said about the kind of faux moral outrage to the Glenn Greenwald sex tape. And I also really liked his response to the question of why women typically deflect responsibility or accountability. Because that's something that I've grappled with a lot myself, like, what is it about us that we innately, like, cannot? And he says, yeah, that's something that I'm always trying to put more pieces together about all this stuff. And one of my best resources is just women who watch my material, blah, blah, blah. Women don't want to appear. Wait.

[Anna]

Oh, yeah, hold on.

[Dasha]

It's just like not letting me like read the quote.

[Anna]

Well, he's. Yeah, he's dealing in harsh truths. And I think in the case of his, like, female critics.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And men too, but women especially, they don't. It's not so much that they even are lying.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

It's that they have like a self flattering idea.

[Dasha]

Well, yeah, I think that men's, men's paranoid suspicion is that women are lying to you when the reality is that women are lying to themselves. He says, like, I don't really understand what, what is the interior experience of women not wanting to take accountability. And somebody explained it to me last night as a function of sexuality. Women don't want to appear to be the initiators of their own desire because it makes them look undesirable. Like they look cheap and they look promiscuous. If a woman expresses desire, then it's like, is that what you do all the time? Well, you're not worth the investment then. So it's a way of protecting their value. Pretending I don't have desire. You made me do it. And then that translates to everything in their life. Oh, I didn't want to eat the thing. You made me eat it. I didn't want to go here on vacation. It was your choice. That is probably true.

[Anna]

I think there's some truth to it.

[Dasha]

But it's like that, like right wing meme about how the lion is being raped by the lioness or whatever. Like women always actually make the first move when you think about it in their own way. Yeah. And they want men to make the first move.

[Anna]

I think his Analysis of like female sexual purity or is somewhat overblown and doesn't quite add up to, to like it's, it is, it's this very like adolescent view of human value where he's like a 10, is like a little businessman strong and like. Yeah. He has one drawing where a guy has like a briefcase that says like 100 billion on it. And like. Yeah. That there's this idea that there's. Yeah, like a 10amongst men and a 10amongst women and that they're, that people are doing these kind of mathematical calculations to determine someone's like value to them based on their sexual history and attractiveness. And I think it's much more simple than all that. I think a lot of his like the basic, the fundamentals are there, which is like if you're really lonely and down bad, like yeah, maybe just try taking a little better care of yourself.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And just get out there just being and be a little better. But I think Heartiste is correct and that part of this is like a biological reality. Right. That like women have one egg a.

[Dasha]

Month for every thousands of sperm. Yeah, yeah.

[Anna]

And so they are just more valuable in like sheer brute reproductive sexual marketplace reality. And that's why they have more choice.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And part of that is due to feminism, like giving women too much agency and all of that. But even like innately, biologically there's something where they.

[Dasha]

Yeah, there's some lag where like society has become like antinatalist and non procreative but women still have like an upper hand or something.

[Anna]

And part of that is like economic factors, sectors where women now out earn men and men are less employable and less productive and less valuable monetarily. And women don't need a man to take care of them because they can go get some shitty job. Whereas in the past there was more of an incentive to. To you know, be monogamous to someone. That was mid.

[Dasha]

Yeah, I mean that was like that. That's why like I can't ever fully turn on Jordan Peterson because he had that great line about how like, well, you know, constructs like monogamy and capitalism are not perfect, but they're like the most functional and ideal setting that humanity has figured out. He had, he had another great line where he talks about how society as men, because the value that we get out of life comes from things that men do. Men provide a much more concrete form of value than women. Women provide relational value mostly, which is not less valuable. It's just that it doesn't mean anything without the material value, likewise, material value without relational value is empty. It's like, oh, you're rich, but. But nobody loves you. On the other side of it, if everyone loves each other but you don't have material, you starve to death. I mean that's like very basic and Asian. But it does prove a certain point.

[Anna]

I think it's, you know, it's true that. Well, society, even in its most like brute form, which is like language, is male oriented. It's all men made it. All men made it all up.

[Dasha]

Yeah. Men literally built civilization so women could administer its decline. Yes, so true.

[Anna]

They sure are.

[Dasha]

Yeah. Which is what happens when you give them like a free. I mean, we can talk about like the Tinder. Yeah, well, height thing.

[Anna]

Riley watched the self maximization video with me and because, yeah, the example he makes is.

[Dasha]

Yeah, he had.

[Anna]

There was some girl that he's known from childhood who had rejected him his whole life until he had a glow up and then she wanted to be with him. And he's also. I also find very cute how he's kind of like wholesome in this weird way where he's. None of his drawings are lewd. He always will do like XXX or like a little devil to like insinuate sexual activity. Like his little like signifiers that he chooses are very cute. But yeah, so he started. Then she accepted him and he got the ick. Yeah. Basically she told him that she actually had a boyfriend that she was cheating on with with home math. And he told her that she could either have a boyfriend or they could have a casual sexual relationship. And then she broke up with her boyfriend to be with him. But then he didn't want her.

[Dasha]

Huh.

[Anna]

And she gave him the ick instead. And that was, you know, sort of his. But I said to Riley that I had never, never in my life have I had a situation or I couldn't even really imagine one where there had been someone that I had rejected who improved themselves in some way that then made me regret.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Rejecting them.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And want to like embark on a relationship with them. And then I said like. But I have. I don't really have very high physical though maybe you know, some. Because Riley is by far the most attractive person been with. So maybe deep, somewhere deep down.

[Dasha]

No, I think that you like Riley because he's a kind and gentle person. And like the. The attractiveness is helpful, but it's incidental.

[Anna]

I think so too.

[Dasha]

Like if he was short and fat and bald and he still loved you all the same. I think you would probably go for it.

[Anna]

Well, yeah. The height. Yeah. And yeah, he. He was like, well, you like men who are tall like you. Yeah. I was like. But if I was on Tinder.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

I would not have a. There wouldn't be a height preference, like deal breaker for me.

[Dasha]

Really. That's. Yeah, it's. It's so delusional.

[Anna]

But I think for a lot of women, judging by what, you know, I see and I think in real life it's not true. I think most women.

[Dasha]

Yeah, like, I think most women would prefer a taller man to a shorter man. But if a. If a man materializes who ticks all the other boxes.

[Anna]

Right.

[Dasha]

Then you can really like roll with it.

[Anna]

But I do think a lot of women, like, if they are able, you know, with the wide array of. And of course there's the data to back this up that women get far more matches on apps than men do. But that's also that men basically will match any female. Yeah, like men and women get to be more selective.

[Dasha]

Yeah. But this gives them like a kind of artificial, delusional sense of their desirability. Because the fact of the matter is that like most men would most women maybe not be in a relationship or marry. But like, you know, with all due respect, like, women are very easily flattered by the attention that they get from men and like, you really shouldn't be because they're into all of us at all times. Simply. It's like the. The law of E girls. It's like there's so many different E girls and they're all like, relatively attractive, I guess. But really the reason that they kind of rewire men's brains is because they post pictures of themselves so often. And if you do that often enough, it makes you more available and therefore more desirable.

[Anna]

That's like all math would disagree. He would say that your like availability or perceived availability to men decreases your sexual. Maybe not like men will you, but they won't.

[Dasha]

Yeah, I mean, I mean to above. Yeah. I mean to the degree that they will you. But women take place too much stock in the fact that men will them because they'll literally anyone.

[Anna]

I mean, I think broadly that's true. Men will a table.

[Dasha]

Yeah. They really, really.

[Anna]

Well, they do not care.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And like one's sexual availability or penetrability is nowadays especially like arbitrary and devalued.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Because it's another like, maybe he addresses this on other videos, but I think he also underestimates how many women will. They won't fuck any guy but like, they want. Women want attention.

[Dasha]

Yeah. So I think they get a lot of that attention from just, like, having, like, simps and pay pigs on the Internet. Yeah. Like, a lot of women are just, like, not really into sex. They're into what sex signifies about them, but they don't actually want to perform all the depraved and degenerate acts.

[Anna]

They might not want to, but they will. They will do affirms something about their desirability.

[Dasha]

Right.

[Anna]

So then, like, it's like cat person. Yeah, exactly. They, like, don't. Maybe they want to, but not for the same reasons men want to. And a lot of women will also have sex with men that are, like, not matched with them on the whatever, one through ten.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Scale. They'll. People with less sexual marketplace value because they just need, like, the dopamine.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And like, affirmation of, like, someone wanting.

[Dasha]

To have sex with them or they won't even them. They'll just, like, take the showering of attention.

[Anna]

Oftentimes they will.

[Dasha]

Yeah, that's true.

[Anna]

And maybe I'm naive and like, maybe. Yeah. Like, women get the ick more than I think. But my impression is that women, like, suppress their ick impulse. You know, they'll, like, ignore things that they don't like about someone and put out anyway because they're like. Everyone's kind of holding out hope that someone will, like.

[Dasha]

Well, that's everybody. Yeah, that's everybody. That's not even women. It's just. That's everyone.

[Anna]

Like, well, men will have sex with a woman and definitely know they don't want to be with them or, you know, whereas, like, women will have sex with them and they don't want to be with. With by every, like, indicator. Like, if they were more rational, they would compromise better. But I think a lot of women have sex or, like, embark on relations with people with the hope that they'll have. Be able to have some kind of. Of like, transcended, elevated romantic experience for them.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Maybe I'm wrong.

[Dasha]

No, I think you're right about that. But that's actually like, nice and healthy and wholesome to hold out that kind of hope.

[Anna]

Yeah. I think it's like a white pill, ultimately.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And if people could break through to a higher level of metacognition, they wouldn't feel. They wouldn't.

[Dasha]

No. They would be so depressed and demoralized, they would never even leave their bed.

[Anna]

I mean, I think they wouldn't be so. They'd make better decisions and they wouldn't be so like wounded and misled by people who not only they don't have any.

[Dasha]

I mean there have been so many times in my life where I was like not so many but like maybe two or three times in my life where I was like so seriously in love with a guy and I thought he was the person for me. And then in retrospect looking back on it, I'm like what was I thinking?

[Anna]

I mean yeah. Whole math really had me reflecting.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Especially in my like early twenties when ostensibly I was at like my pen peak sexual marketplace value. I was definitely not. I did not understand. Yeah.

[Dasha]

You didn't know what you were doing.

[Anna]

That kind of ho math. I was like, he's a poet, he's bisexual.

[Dasha]

That means he's open to experiences and non judgmental. His drug addiction is IND I can fix him.

[Anna]

It's indeed of his romantic soul.

[Dasha]

He's too sensitive for this world which is why he has to pawn my jewelry for that's actually never happened to me. But it's happened to quite a few of my girlfriends.

[Anna]

It's never happened to me. But I mean yeah, I absolutely.

[Dasha]

When he's hitting it from the back and thinking of what jewelry he can steal to give to wifey, it's still like to this day my, my favorite meme of all time.

[Anna]

I mean New York is also unique in that it has more females then man then. And a lot of the women in New York are you know, attractive and high functioning and successful.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And because they are pulling from a smaller pool, they have lower standards.

[Dasha]

Right.

[Anna]

But in my lived experience, you know, I have very like attractive and cool female friends who are definitely not overvaluing.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Themselves.

[Dasha]

Yeah. I have a very attractive and cool female friend who's like an 11 out of 10. And she said to me recently, I feel so lonely and unfulfilled and I just want to meet a man who wants to get married and have children. And I was like oh damn. No. And I was like what the. Like you. Cuz if I was a man I would choose you.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

Like you have a perfect body and a great mind and you're a racist.

[Anna]

I mean one cuz the cat, the. He's actually really. He's not misogynistic. Homathan.

[Dasha]

Yeah, he's not, he's not, he's not miserable or bitter or misogynistic. Let's get that out of the way.

[Anna]

In his like application of his maximilization method, you know there's like all of these categories for. In which men can like Improve themselves and add value. And for women, it's much shorter. Yeah. And in some ways that's, like. I could see. See how the read would be cynical because it's like, women kind of have a natural peak that they.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

You know, they can't. They could kind of get hotter, but, like, only so much. Right. Like, that's. They'll, like, hit a ceiling.

[Dasha]

They'll hit the wall.

[Anna]

Whereas, like, men can always, like, make more money and get what a. Blah, blah, whatever, get bolder. They have, like, more options. In some ways, they can get more.

[Dasha]

G wagons.

[Anna]

Because women innately bring something to the table just by virtue of being women having a pussy. But one of his. The categories in which women do add value in his model, which I appreciate, is sanity. And in their, like, again, not, like, sheerly for sex.

[Dasha]

What does he mean? Like, in their, like, utilitarianism and pragmatism.

[Anna]

No, in, like, they're like, a woman is more valuable in his estimation if she has, like, less baggage and is less, like.

[Dasha]

Right.

[Anna]

Of a nuisance. You know, if she's, like, staple and is able to just provide like, a. You know, and that seems like such a, like, base level.

[Dasha]

Well, if she's, like, able to be, like, a cool and chill and easygoing person.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dasha]

Instead of a deranged and decrepit monster, it's like, what's that quote? Like, show me a beautiful woman and I'll show you a man who's tired of her. That's so true.

[Anna]

I mean. Yeah. I. One woman comes to mind.

[Dasha]

She sure does.

[Anna]

Who is notably, famously attractive and yet can't keep them. Can't keep a man. But he.

[Dasha]

He had actually a very interesting line where he said, like, you know, the common coin is that men are simple and women are complicated. And actually, like, men are complicated and women are simple. I don't think that's entirely true. I think that most people are actually quite simple.

[Anna]

Oh, I was gonna say most people are complicated.

[Dasha]

No, no. Most people are actually quite simple. Think about what you really want in life, which is like, a peaceful and easygoing existence with a person who matches your emotional wavelength, not even your ideological wavelength. That doesn't matter. As Kate says, somebody who mirrors your conscientiousness.

[Anna]

That's sweet.

[Dasha]

But it is really sweet.

[Anna]

People don't want that, even if they say they do. Yeah.

[Dasha]

I mean, I think some people are, like, just dramatic and broken and, like, beyond salvation. But most. I saw, like, a really great Dostoevsky quote, baby, that was like, you know, even the Most like, calculating and socio. I'm like, butchering it because he definitely didn't put it in such terms, but it was basically like, even the most calculating and sociopathic people are actually more innocent than you think and have, like, certain needs and desires that are being unmet.

[Anna]

And I think I've said this before, and I don't think Homath would disagree, but I think with gender relations being as precarious and fraught as they are, much like sanity is like a categorical value add, I think because women are so anxious that even, like, if a man makes them more anxious, then they freak the out. And they can, like, sense even if it's not in their conscious mind, but they. If they feel a kind of, like, unsafety or insecurity, it, like, amplifies their, like, chaotic feminine.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Impulses.

[Dasha]

Yeah, I can see that.

[Anna]

And that, yeah, if men, once again, like, rose to the occasion. And obviously there's, like, socioeconomic factors that keep them from necessary being, like, providers. But, like, even.

[Dasha]

Well, this is like an intractable problem. How do you get men to rise to the occasion? What incentives are there? This is a question BAP asks a lot. Like, again, it's like a. A more elaborate way of saying of why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?

[Anna]

I mean, love is the only incentive.

[Dasha]

It is. And like, when. That's when home math says that he's, like, stressed and tired. It's like, the only thing that makes you not stressed and tired, the only thing that gives you energy is love. And not just love for, like, a romantic partner, but love for your child, your family. Like, love in general, but love for a romantic partner, it seems to be like, I guess, like, for lack of a better phrase, like the linchpin of most people's consciousness. I mean, there was that, like, famous Islet Waldman essay back in the 90s that got her a lot of flack where she talks about how, by definition, you have to love your husband more than you love your children, which I'm, like, kind of on the fence about. I don't know if I agree with her entirely, but I get her point. I see what she's saying. I haven't read it, but I haven't read it either. I just remember that this was a. I mean, a big discourse in the days before Internet and ala My gut.

[Anna]

Or social media, my gut instinct is that you just love your. You have to love your husband differently than you love your children.

[Dasha]

Yeah, that's. That's like a very smart and Succinct way of saying it. Yeah.

[Anna]

And you should love your children sort of like, unconditionally.

[Dasha]

Yeah. And you should respect your husband, which.

[Anna]

Is hard to do because you love your husband more conditionally. It's more valuable and takes more effort.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Potentially. I don't know. I say that as a childless person, you know, like, I think that that's. It's not. It's not a numbers game.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Like, whole math would like you to think where there's, like, a certain amount of love that you are, like, dispersing.

[Dasha]

It's.

[Anna]

It's just different. Maybe. I don't know. What do I know? I'm just happily married. What do I know? I just did all the right things in my life. But don't take my advice.

[Dasha]

Trad. Waifu.

[Anna]

No. Well, my. Yeah. It's like, I just think there is. Love can't be.

[Dasha]

Broken down into these, like, quantitative elements.

[Anna]

Yeah. Or.

[Dasha]

But that's. That's what it really comes down to. And now I'm sounding like one of these women who's like, don't lose hope. You got this. As I said earlier, it's just like, when you meet somebody who totally suits you and agrees with you, like, when you know, you know, it just, like, works out. It just historically hard to do that. Hard to achieve it.

[Anna]

I mean, don't lose hope. And maybe you really don't caught this. I would say, like, you know, like, it might not work out, but you have to.

[Dasha]

And then you have to. You have to figure out a contingency plan. Like being a lifestyle influencer on social media and making lots of money.

[Anna]

It's inspiring how, like. Because. Yeah. Like, in the age of, like, the infographic, you know.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Where there's so much information that's so, like, glossily and coherently presented that he would become so successful making these, like, schizophrenic things that make no sense.

[Dasha]

Yeah. Homath lost 100 pounds and he didn't become Richard Hanania. Good for him. Can you imagine the Richard Hanania sex tape? It's just like him throwing dogs off a parking garage. As a king, he's like, yeah, I got this.

[Anna]

Don't. I mean, I will say. And maybe this is because I think this applies to the majority of people, but being like, a bottom or a sub is way more. Seems way more healthy than being. You know, if the video. The role. If the video was of Glenn Greenwald, like, degrading a black guy, then he'd be in real trouble. But, like, everyone kind of he was.

[Dasha]

Putting a black guy in a Daniel Penny Hedlock.

[Anna]

But that's also where I tell me, who owns you? Whose property? Who's your white God?

[Dasha]

Who's your daddy?

[Anna]

But I think, you know, he's like.

[Dasha]

I'm just your doordash delivery guy.

[Anna]

But most, most people. I think that also takes the edge off the Glenn stuff. I think for a lot of people is that most people are bottoms.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

In their like orientation and desire and just like they don't relatable.

[Dasha]

Yeah. We just want to take the edge off of the crushing weight of our responsibility in this world.

[Anna]

Yeah. People can kind of like understand even if they pretend not to because they're trad or right wing or Christian or whatever.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And it's like very degeneracy coded.

[Dasha]

The foot fetish stuff. I don't think anybody gets it. I don't get it.

[Anna]

I don't think it's a real foot.

[Dasha]

It's not a thing.

[Anna]

I don't think it's about the. I mean for some people it is. The foot is like.

[Dasha]

I don't think it is.

[Anna]

I think, I don't think it is for Glenn.

[Dasha]

No.

[Anna]

I think it's just about the like degradation and the power. It's a power.

[Dasha]

It's all.

[Anna]

It's like a power dynamic thing.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

I think men have. There's men out there who have legitimate foot fetish where they want to see the soul of a woman's smooth, you know. Like I understand how the foot can be erotic, but I don't think that's in my analysis. What's like the. The video is about. It's not about the flow.

[Dasha]

No, no, no. Not at all.

[Anna]

But for actual foot fetishes who are predominantly male, I think. Yeah. Something happened in early childhood where they displaced the.

[Dasha]

The.

[Anna]

I mean that's what Freud says is that there's. You see your mother's feet in a formative moment and it like triggers something that then like.

[Dasha]

So true Queen.

[Anna]

I think there's something to it. Maybe he was smoking meth when he came up with those ideas. Makes sense.

[Dasha]

He literally was.

[Anna]

Makes sense to me.

[Dasha]

He was doing like nasal cocaine spray.

[Anna]

He on ketamine with Elon Musk.

[Dasha]

Oh yeah, true. I forgot about that.

[Anna]

I don't think that's true at all. I read the New York Times piece and it's like we have both source from private messages that says he. It's like he's not on ketamine. I mean he might.

[Dasha]

He might be. And I don't really care.

[Anna]

He. I think he probably takes it in some like Silicon Valley like optimization intravenous Samo Bergia. Yeah. Some like perfectly diluted. You know he's like doing it to of kind combat is like.

[Dasha]

Yeah, he's micro dosing.

[Anna]

Yeah. I don't think he's like tripping balls in the White House or it's like such a transparent kind of like. And I don't even. I'm not even.

[Dasha]

No, I know musk but it's like.

[Anna]

Even I can see that this is like I don't know who would pay creatures like there's no source.

[Dasha]

There's no. It is like it is like faux moral outrage and moral faggery.

[Anna]

Yeah. Like. And then like. Yeah, with like because of his autismo. You know they like have the pictures of him like jumping up and down like he's on drugs. It's like he's not.

[Dasha]

I don't think that's drug induced.

[Anna]

Yeah. It's be nice if it was gay and weird but he just acts like.

[Dasha]

That you wish it was drug induced because it would explain a lot.

[Anna]

Yeah. They're like he was on. He was. He's not on ketamine. He's like firing federal employees to do anything. That's like how they have to. Surely he must be high implement these anti corruption policies. How could he come up with these crazy ideas? Well, he left the. Yeah, I heard he's out of there. I read in the Hindu stance. Oh, the arsler.

[Dasha]

Oh, oh wait, how long have we been going. I'm so we can wrap it up. Should we talk about the arsler? They don't really say anything that riveting.

[Anna]

No, but it's kind of a benchmark in the war of saying. Yeah, we've been waging for a long time. Of course we get no credit.

[Dasha]

They wheel out a bunch of like annoying and experts to talk about how it harms marginalized communities.

[Anna]

I didn't read that part because I know it's all lies because I know it's just. It's always been. We all know it, we all want to say it. It's just a. I've said this from day one that it's a descriptive word. There was some like well no file that came out about us like or in the early days that was like I'm talking to Dasha on the phone and she says she's so hungover she.

[Dasha]

Feels yeah she's harming marginalized communities.

[Anna]

And it's like no, I mean like I drink alcohol. That slowed my cognitive impairment. There's nothing like inherently.

[Dasha]

Bad about saying no there isn't. Of course it's not even like on the same level as the nword.

[Anna]

Not even close. Are you kidding me? It used to be the word they used to say mentally all the time, and then they changed.

[Dasha]

They, they do this like switch and bait where they're like, here's a quote. Joe Rogan, Elon Musk and Kanye west are likely using the word to get a rise out of people and draw more eyes to their content. Bond Benton, a professor of communications at New Jersey University, never heard I grew up in New Jersey, Never heard of New Jersey University. But by using a term that historically been used to disparage and diminish people with disabilities, they're renormalizing the slur among followers and fans who interact with their posts, he said. Musk, Grogan and West haven't responded to CNN's questions for comment. And then they they wheel out another dumb expert. Adrian Massanari, an ex an associate professor at American University who has studied how the far right uses tech to grow its influence. She says that this is symptomatic of a graver problem. Quote the loss of empathy. Quote the demonization of communities. Quote A pushing of the envelope. Notice how they don't even have to specify like which communities, doctor Says. Merely by using the word communities, you know, they're like pushing gay race communism. The word has never really gone away, they say. In fact, many people still use it in private. Many, including controversial far right influencers and some members of the former quote dirtbag left podcast scene, even use it in public. But most people were comfortable with the word retreating from the normal discourse after use of after years of campaigns designed to end the slur, Benton said. Like basically demoralization campaigns to police people's language as a means of policing their thoughts.

[Anna]

You gaslit people and gave them like an arsenal of words like ableist to leverage against people who are talking in a normal human way.

[Dasha]

You want, you want them to buy into your definition of empathy, which is just like emotional terrorism by another name. They they get into how it supplanted diagnostic labels like imbecile, moron and feeble minded for people who were treated as lesser members of slavery society, regularly institutionalized in dangerous environments and even forcibly sterilized without their consent. Can you have consent if you're well.

[Anna]

I guess that's the issue, yeah, is you can't.

[Dasha]

When disability is framed as a lack of limitation or loss, it reinforces the idea that people with disabilities are inherently incapable. Leaky van. Human.

[Anna]

Wait, what? Read that again. When disability.

[Dasha]

When disability is framed as a lack limitation or loss, it forces the idea that people with disabilities are inherently incapable. Leaky van.

[Anna]

Is that not what disability it means? You don't have the ability.

[Dasha]

You lack certain cognition or capability.

[Anna]

Yes.

[Dasha]

A clinical associate professor in disability and human development at the University of Illinois, Chicago, told cnn. This is how they get you. And also prove your point. Because they're like, you have to conform to our language and labels, and if you don't, you're a bad person.

[Anna]

You want to sterilize.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Mentally.

[Dasha]

They want. They wanna.

[Anna]

Neurodiverse. Yeah, they.

[Dasha]

They, like, want you to fall in line with their, like, warped, resentful, like, morally inverted view of the world by making you feel bad that you're, like, harming marginalized communities of actually retarded people, which is not what it's all about. Like, nobody really, like, everybody has, like, total sympathy for people with down syndrome. Nobody really thinks about them. It's fine. Like, no.

[Anna]

Yeah. They're not like a victim category in this situation.

[Dasha]

There's no.

[Anna]

I mean, Louis CK has that bit where they. We used to just say retarded, but it's not. They point out. Yeah, it was a clinical definition.

[Dasha]

Huh. To describe people with a legitimate disability that was used to affront and insult people who didn't have that disability or do. To make a point.

[Anna]

Well, it literally just means slow.

[Dasha]

But nobody's making fun of people with actual retardation.

[Anna]

We don't say.

[Dasha]

Because everyone, again, feels sympathy for them.

[Anna]

Norm MacDonald, clip from a couple years ago where he, I think said retarded and then said, oh, sorry, I meant downs. Yeah, it's like. It's not. That's not how language works. You don't get to, like, police what it means.

[Dasha]

Well, they do and they want to.

[Anna]

Not anymore.

[Dasha]

It's back, baby. This was rejected at the ballot box because it's, like, very clearly, evidently not abusive, insulting language toward people who have a disability. It's to what? Whatever. I'm not gonna get homemath autistic and try to explicate.

[Anna]

I mean, it's interesting they stopped letting us say retarded as they became more and more retarded.

[Dasha]

Yes. I mean, hey, I got banned on Twitter for saying retarded in 2019.

[Anna]

Unjust.

[Dasha]

Now I'm back, baby and I can say it as much as I want with total impunity, and no one gives a way worse than that, which is like some ho math Level of black pilling where you're like, wait a second. So none of this matters or ever met anything?

[Anna]

I mean, I feel like I was asked by some members of my team as recently as like a year ago or two, maybe.

[Dasha]

Wait, what team?

[Anna]

My handlers.

[Dasha]

Okay.

[Anna]

My agent.

[Dasha]

Oh.

[Anna]

Was like, do you have to keep saying yeah? I was like, that's not. Come on.

[Dasha]

Yes, you have to.

[Anna]

Okay. I'm not gonna stop now.

[Dasha]

It's not. Okay. Like, here's the thing. When you say like, n soft landing in like the privacy of your group chat, that's meant as the term of emphasis and defection. When you say n hard landing, that is clearly over invested and over determined. You're trying to prove a point and it's a little vulgar and racist. When you say retarded, it literally means nothing except you're trying to illustrate that the person that you're debating with is retarded.

[Anna]

It means what it means. Yeah, it doesn't mean anything more than that. It definitely doesn't have hateful implications at all.

[Dasha]

Well, no, it does toward the person that you're using it against because you're saying that they're like slow and feeble minded and imbecile.

[Anna]

I mean, you. A lot of people also use it to describe like situations or states of mind or, you know, it's like also used not even in an insulting capacity. And that's where it really, you know, like, sure, okay, don't like insult people by implying that they're differently abled or whatever, but that you were made to feel like you couldn't even say it to like describe something that was actually like.

[Dasha]

Well, in a way, in a way it's like, it's like woke more correct. Because they do point out in that article that it's about like likes and engagement. In other words, if somebody like Joe Rogan or Elon Musk or Kanye west says the word, it drives likes and engagement, they're getting it the other way around. Because what they're really offended by and responding to is that those people have some organic appeal because they have the confidence and freedom to say what they want to say. And they're not like cowed by the language police. Yeah, it is about likes and engagement for them.

[Anna]

I mean, I've met a handful of red scare fans over the years who have been like, very eager to say.

[Dasha]

Yeah, retarded to me.

[Anna]

And it becomes kind of like. I wouldn't even call it a dog whistle, but like some like a signifier of. Yeah, one's freedom or something. But it didn't have to be that way.

[Dasha]

Yeah. If you would just accept the common.

[Anna]

Usage of taking the boot off our necks and let us talk normal and then there wouldn't be kind of like.

[Dasha]

Reaction like unselfconsciously, which is really what it's all about. And the only reason it became like this whole sub self conscious construct, it's because they made it that way. It never really occurred to anyone.

[Anna]

Well. And because they are harboring their own prejudices against the uhhuh where and of course is used as an insult. I'm not like being like obtuse but like that the word itself is inherently like retarded, prejudiced or like cruel.

[Dasha]

Yeah.

[Anna]

I think betrays like your own values.

[Dasha]

That's always what yeah.

[Anna]

You think is insulting. And I've always said that I am reclaiming it because I myself am retarded. So I'm allowed to say it.

[Dasha]

Well, it's like when blacks or trannies are like, you're just jealous of us. And I'm like not really. No, I've never thought of that. I was just speaking openly and freely and making some retarded point.

[Anna]

Well we've done.

[Dasha]

I mean that with no disrespect, but.

[Anna]

No lawful to death.

[Dasha]

On the, on the Internet everyone's always projecting we'll see you in hell.

[Anna]

See you in hell.

[Dasha]

It.