We Found Love in a Popeless Place

Summary

Podcast Summary: Red Scare - "We Found Love in a Popeless Place"

Episode Overview "We Found Love in a Popeless Place," released on April 30, 2025, delves into a myriad of cultural, political, and personal topics with hosts Anna Khachiyan and Dasha Nekrasova (referred to as Bobby in the transcript). The conversation spans from historical grievances and media critiques to intimate discussions about trauma and pop culture phenomena. This summary captures the essence of their dynamic dialogue, highlighting key discussions, insights, and notable quotes to provide a comprehensive understanding for both regular listeners and newcomers.

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1. Armenian Genocide Recognition and Political Tensions

The episode opens with Anna acknowledging Armenian Holocaust Remembrance Day, leading into a heated discussion about the lack of official recognition for the Armenian Genocide by prominent political figures and nations.

• Anna [00:25]: "Happy Armenian Holocaust Remembrance Day, Anna."
• Bobby [00:36]: "They're not calling it the Holocaust or the genocide. People are mad."
• Discussion Points:
  • Frustration over the refusal of leaders like Trump and Eric Adams to officially recognize the Armenian Genocide.
  • The political balancing act involving alliances with Israel, Turkey, and Azerbaijan.
  • Critique of Israel's stance on acknowledging ethnic grievances, labeling it as part of their "Holocaust industry."

2. Comparisons with Yugoslav Conflicts

Anna shares her interest in the Yugoslavian conflict, reflecting on the ethnic cleansing and war crimes that emerged post-authoritarian regimes.

• Anna [02:44]: "I've been kind of taking an interest in the Yugoslavian conflict..."
• Bobby [06:00]: Comments on the return of ethnic and religious feuds after the fall of authoritarian rule.
• Insights:
  • The inevitability of resurfacing conflicts when diverse groups are left without external control.
  • The impact of communist regimes in suppressing nationalism and enforcing forced cultural assimilation.

3. Metropolitan Museum of Art (Met Gala) and Black Dandyism

A substantial portion of the episode critiques the Met Gala's evolving themes, particularly focusing on the 2025 theme "Super Fine Tailoring Black Style."

• Anna [09:03]: "And the changing face of the Catholic Church. Yeah. The African guy would be interesting..."
• Bobby [58:21]: References to an academic perspective on the Met Gala’s theme as a form of cultural resistance.
• Notable Quote:
  • Bobby [61:08]: "It's like the mission impossible meme of trying to get to the thing through lasers."
• Key Points:
  • The juxtaposition of black dandyism with contemporary political climates, especially amidst Trump’s anti-DEI agendas.
  • The challenges white attendees might face in authentically representing black style without cultural appropriation.
  • The Met Gala's role in highlighting shifts in male aesthetics towards gender fluidity and hyper-masculinity reversal.

4. Media Critique: EV Magazine and Conservative Influencers

Anna and Bobby dissect the portrayal and influence of conservative media outlets, particularly focusing on EV Magazine's efforts and shortcomings.

• Anna [82:16]: "Her content she crusade against topics such as birth control, that it accelerates aging..."
• Bobby [85:10]: "But people can sense that their motivations for promoting that type of message are false..."
• Insights:
  • EV Magazine’s attempt to cater to conservative women by discussing issues like breastfeeding and homeschooling while incorporating problematic topics.
  • The perceived failure of such publications to engage authentically with their target audience.
  • Criticism of conservative influencers for their lack of originality and reliance on aping mainstream aesthetics without substantive content.

5. Kanye West and Taboo Subjects

A controversial segment involves discussions about Kanye West, touching upon themes of incest and his provocative artistry.

• Bobby [15:19]: "I think owing to the circumstances of her life, those problems preceded any of the Epstein stuff."
• Anna [30:53]: "But I listen because I have to wear headphones all day."
• Notable Quote:
  • Anna [35:03]: "Yeah, but it's a big event. It's been 20 years. Who knows how many more popes will have."
• Discussion Points:
  • Kanye West’s exploration of deeply taboo and personal subjects in his music, making them accessible and less stigmatized.
  • The interplay between mental health and artistic expression, suggesting that Kanye's struggles may enhance his creative output.
  • The hosts speculate on potential song content and its impact on listeners, highlighting the universal resonance of traumatic experiences depicted in art.

6. Personal Anecdotes on Sexual Trauma and Relationships

The hosts share personal stories and reflections on childhood trauma, incest, and societal taboos surrounding these topics.

• Bobby [22:00]: "It's like those stories about, like, gay twins separated at birth who met years later..."
• Anna [42:52]: "I have this crazy memory of being molested?"
• Key Points:
  • The normalization and minimization of childhood sexual abuse within different communities.
  • The psychological impact of trauma and societal shame on individuals’ willingness to discuss these experiences openly.
  • The role of media and art in addressing and destigmatizing such sensitive subjects.

7. Fashion, Masculinity, and Cultural Appropriation

The conversation shifts to fashion trends, particularly focusing on how black culture influences mainstream fashion and challenges traditional notions of masculinity.

• Bobby [67:28]: "It's cultural appropriation which is good and interesting."
• Anna [73:00]: "Why not the autism thing?"
• Insights:
  • The evolution of menswear embracing gender fluidity as a form of resistance against hyper-masculine figures like Trump and Elon Musk.
  • The significance of black dandyism in redefining male aesthetics and promoting a more inclusive fashion narrative.
  • The hosts debate the potential themes for future Met Galas, critiquing the commercialization and superficiality of current fashion trends.

8. Criticism of Modern Women's Media and Influencers

Anna and Bobby critique contemporary women's media, highlighting perceived failings in addressing genuine issues and resorting to sensationalism.

• Bobby [86:38]: "So that ev magazine's relative failure, really as a publication even more notable..."
• Anna [90:01]: "What is diastasis?"
• Notable Quote:
  • Bobby [91:13]: "It's like really the real fertility. It's not like some hot babe on Twitter..."
• Discussion Points:
  • The superficial nature of modern women's magazines and influencers, focusing more on appearance and sensational topics rather than substantive issues.
  • The backlash against movements like "womanosphere" for lacking depth and authenticity.
  • The hosts lament the lack of meaningful content in conservative women's media, drawing parallels to mainstream criticisms.

9. Final Thoughts on Media Consumption and Authenticity

In their concluding discussions, Anna and Bobby reflect on the authenticity of media messages and the challenges of maintaining genuine discourse in a commodified environment.

• Anna [105:10]: "That's my favorite kind of article to read. I feel insulted to be included in the tableau."
• Bobby [106:05]: "Yeah."
• Key Insights:
  • The difficulty in distinguishing genuine media efforts from hollow, profit-driven content.
  • The importance of organic engagement over financially incentivized influence.
  • The hosts emphasize the need for authenticity and substance in media to foster meaningful conversations and resist superficial narratives.

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Conclusion "We Found Love in a Popeless Place" offers a thought-provoking exploration of complex and often controversial topics. Anna and Bobby navigate through historical grievances, media critiques, personal traumas, and cultural phenomena with a blend of humor and critical analysis. Their candid dialogue invites listeners to reflect on the intersections of politics, culture, and personal experiences, making it a compelling episode for those interested in deep cultural commentary.

Notable Quotes:

• Anna [00:25]: "Happy Armenian Holocaust Remembrance Day, Anna."
• Bobby [00:36]: "They're not calling it the Holocaust or the genocide. People are mad."
• Bobby [61:08]: "It's like the mission impossible meme of trying to get to the thing through lasers."
• Anna [73:00]: "Why not the autism thing?"
• Bobby [86:38]: "So that ev magazine's relative failure, really as a publication even more notable..."
• Anna [105:10]: "That's my favorite kind of article to read. I feel insulted to be included in the tableau."

This structured summary encapsulates the breadth of discussions in the episode, providing a clear and informative overview for those who seek to understand the content without listening to the full transcript.

Transcript

[Anna]

Happy Armenian Holocaust Remembrance Day, Anna.

[Bobby]

Happy Autism Awareness.

[Anna]

For real.

[Bobby]

They're not calling it the Holocaust or the genocide. People are mad.

[Anna]

What do they call it?

[Bobby]

I don't know. Armenians are mad at Trump because he refused to name it.

[Anna]

Like Eric Adams because he got all that. All those Turkish bribes.

[Bobby]

Yeah. Because, you know, they're. They have to be friends with Israel and Turkey and Azerbaijan and all that.

[Anna]

All right. Israel doesn't acknowledge it. That's humorous. They don't want another ethnic group to have a grievance, I guess.

[Bobby]

They don't want. Yeah, they're really hogging in on their Holocaust industry.

[Anna]

Bobby Fischer called it a money making machine.

[Bobby]

It is spot the lie. I don't know if this is to the credit of Armenians, but it's good that we're not as ethno nationalistic as the Jays. I mean, we're really ethno nationalistic.

[Anna]

Well, you had a nation.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And still do.

[Bobby]

Yeah, I guess. Homeland.

[Anna]

Yeah. And then the Jews, when they got Israel, they just meant so much to them.

[Bobby]

But I saw a clip of like Ann Coulter on like C Span or Fox or something today talking about, like, making this good point that a lot of people even we've made that, like, we're kind of lucky that Trump lost.

[Anna]

In 2020 because we got in way more ramped up.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Because we had this time around, four.

[Bobby]

Years of like, woke crap.

[Anna]

Yeah, exactly.

[Bobby]

And Trump persecution. That really made him mad. And it's almost kind of good that the Armenians were denied their genocide because, you know, it keeps them, like, more humble and focused. They'd be really, really annoying if they had their own Holocaust industry.

[Anna]

Well, they're just not smart enough.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

To leverage the kind of apparatus that it takes to create an industry out of a holocaust.

[Bobby]

Yeah. They're not.

[Anna]

Not gonna say which holocaust it was.

[Bobby]

Like, it would never occur to them to even do that. Even though they can be, like, very maudlin and sentimental about it.

[Anna]

Right. I mean, I've been kind of taking an interest in the Yugoslavian conflict and watching sort of like there was a bunch of movies that came out in the early 2000s. I watched one with Owen Wilson called Behind Enemy Lines.

[Bobby]

Yugoslavian Arc.

[Anna]

But that's also. Yeah. Like, people. That was so recent. That's why it's so crazy. And they did all this ethnic cleansing and no one even, like, it doesn't even matter which group did it.

[Bobby]

They were all doing it.

[Anna]

But one group did a lot of war crimes.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

But it's all.

[Bobby]

Yeah, yeah.

[Anna]

And then the Croats Yeah. But the Serbs really kicked it off and it's. No one care. No one. No one cares at all anymore.

[Bobby]

Yeah, of course. Yeah. It's like totally, like, buried, forgotten. Like, the only people who care are, like, you and Niccolo and me. Just like, for the sheer kind of historical novelty of it.

[Anna]

It was very interesting. Yeah.

[Bobby]

Because it's fun to do noticing in that part of the world.

[Anna]

Well, it's crazy. Yeah, it's crazy. It was a. So diverse, but, like, peaceful.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

But yeah, they all are also basically white, but then divided upon these, like, random, really religious ties.

[Bobby]

Yeah. My mom sent me this reel of this guy Mikhail, who's like a film critic in Russia. That was weirdly topical because he was talking about how under the Soviet Union they really kept the peace because they were such utopians and also such authoritarians. Like under the Soviets, both Yugoslavia and Armenia, Azerbaijan experienced their most peaceful eras in modern history.

[Anna]

Well, because their communist leaders made nationalism.

[Bobby]

Illegal and like, literally rounded up and shot all the biggest, most vociferous nationalists and then went around from town to town, as he said.

[Anna]

What happened? Yeah, yeah.

[Bobby]

And like, made like, basically all these peasants, listened to, like, lectures on like, Bach and Rembrandt and really just like forced culture down their throats. And I almost think that it's not even a specifically communist issue. It's just that they. These like, small tribal nations were under the rule of law of, like, a third party, external authority who kept them in line, in check.

[Anna]

And you think the subsequent fallout was a kind of return to. There is something that feels so, like, inevitable about it that these, like, ethnic, religious, ancient blood feuds would resurface so soon after an authoritarian regime falls. Yeah, yeah, of course.

[Bobby]

Because people, left to their own devices, start, like, slaughtering their neighbors and due to, like, the narcissism of small differences.

[Anna]

Truly.

[Bobby]

It's funny how that works, but yeah.

[Anna]

What an apocalyptic place. But yeah, there's My frame of mind. Feels very Balkan.

[Bobby]

Like currently or in general?

[Anna]

Currently.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Like shattered.

[Bobby]

Well, we're very Balkanized these days.

[Anna]

It is getting more Balkan. Interesting.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And. Oh, yeah, I guess the set is vacante at last. We're all set of a Cantus now.

[Bobby]

Yeah. Do we know who the replacement is?

[Anna]

They haven't even. They haven't even had the conclave. It hasn't started. I don't think they're, like, getting together because they'll have to go there.

[Bobby]

I respect the old man for spitefully hanging on until the day after Easter. People are saying that, J.D. vance, basically. But no offense, I don't think Vance has that kind of power. He's not Armenian.

[Anna]

It's just a. Yeah. A bad, humorous kind of timeline. But he has been d. We. The thing is, I realized I did this. I did the rundown of all the people, potential people, successors like so long ago because he's been sick for so long. And then I forgot about it. Forgot all that information. And now that he's really gone, I don't care again.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Because I really don't, you know, but I did. I watched a BBC clip caring about the mope that gave like a rundown. Well, it's significant because Francis was very progressive and yeah. There's obviously two kinds of sentiment within the church. A lot of people really liked Francis because he was so kind and permissive in a way that wasn't always like adherent to the strictest of Catholic dogmas. But obviously most people like that.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

You know, because Catholic dogmas are a bummer and creep everyone out when you talk about everyone goes to hell except Catholics. So the church. Francis really wasn't harping on that part so much, which made him very popular.

[Bobby]

Yeah. Well, it's like that meme that like Catholics on Twitter be like Vatican 2 instead of a cantism. I don't think I've ever said that word aloud.

[Anna]

You said it before, but yeah.

[Bobby]

And then like actual Catholics in real life are just like having barbecues and like cheating on their wife.

[Anna]

Yeah. But they did a global breakdown of the amount of like the cardinals by nationality, which I thought was interesting because only 39% are European.

[Bobby]

Okay.

[Anna]

And then 15% are from North America. 13 are from South America. 13 South America, 13 Africa and then 17 Asia, which is a really global. You know, that's a interesting demographic.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

So it's still like a majority probably Italians, but dwindling.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And the changing face of the Catholic Church. Yeah. The African guy would be interesting because he's super. Well, there's a couple African guys, but Sarah, the one that's probably the most. I think he's not gonna even guess. I'm so bad at the ethno.

[Bobby]

See the one that said we don't have a problem with AIDS in Africa because there's no homosexuality there. Yeah, that guy. So that'll be funny. I mean, I feel like that's like a good olive branch to both sides. Cuz conservatives can have their trad Pope and liberals can have their black Pope.

[Anna]

Yeah. But it's going to keep people on their toes.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And I think people would Prefer, like the Filipino guy.

[Bobby]

Yeah. Because he's progressive.

[Anna]

Yeah. And then when the African Pope says.

[Bobby]

He sucked his cousin's dick.

[Anna]

It's not gay, though. But the set. I will be vacante when I get married, which is interesting, but. Yeah, it doesn't. I don't really care.

[Bobby]

Yeah. They're gonna obviously replace him with somebody they have. It's.

[Anna]

That's how it works. Yeah, but it's a big event. It's been 20 years. Who knows how many more popes will have. They all have to be so old. Like, they have to. They don't have to be, but it's. To even be taken seriously. It's like they don't even consider you in this year.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

70 years old.

[Bobby]

Is that, like, official, or is it just an unofficial guideline?

[Anna]

The youngest Cardinal is, like, 44. And then everyone else is pretty old. But you have to have been, like, playing the Vatican.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Game. Everyone's watching that movie Conclave now, which I watched over Christmas, so I'm really up to speed. But. Yeah, as long as Rome keeps letting Eastern Catholics do their thing.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

I don't. Doesn't matter.

[Bobby]

You have to be old enough where all of your crimes of aiding and abetting child molesters are so far behind you that they can't really get you on it.

[Anna]

The guy real conservatives want is Erdo, Who's Hungarian.

[Bobby]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Anna]

That would be my control.

[Bobby]

Everybody wants to talk about Epstein island, but no one wants to talk about.

[Anna]

The real Cardinal Erdo. What? The Vatican?

[Bobby]

Where? Yeah, there's an island somewhere where they ship the known offenders off to.

[Anna]

I don't know.

[Bobby]

Oh, did you. Did you see that? Virginia Guffrey killed herself. Damn.

[Anna]

You're telling me this for the first time. No, it just happened. It's weird. We're doing this on April 24th. Romanian Holocaust, remembrance Day in the evening. And we just found out. We just got the news.

[Bobby]

Y.

[Anna]

But she got hit by a bus or something recently, too. Who knows?

[Bobby]

Well, she got hit by a bus. Bus. And then experienced renal failure and said she had days to live.

[Anna]

Yeah, but. And she meant it.

[Bobby]

Yeah, but then she. No, she. Then she survived and then ended up taking control of the narrative by killing herself. Which, you know, props to her, because very few women actually go through with it.

[Anna]

Props to her, But I bet. I watched a horrible documentary about a woman who was set on fire by her husband and had burns all over her body. Like, when was dying. And they were, like, you know, being kept alive and rigged some loophole where she was able to give a recorded testimony because he did to still so that he could still get in trouble for murder, if that makes sense. It was confusing, convoluted. And they kept showing footage of her, like, in horrible agony, screaming and stuff. Like all the. You just. Your whole body's like a wound and you're just screaming. It's literally called like the Woman who was set on Fire. It doesn't even have like a euphemistic title, but I bet. Yeah, she was probably in excruciating pain from her. The bus.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And all the injuries.

[Bobby]

Yeah. I don't want to like, get into like a seedy and cynical analysis of Virginia Guthrie before her body's even gotten cold. But like, Dworkin would have a field day with her because she's very. Was very clearly bpd. And I would bet that owing to the circumstances of her life, those problems preceded any of the Epstein stuff. I mean, she was like a teen runaway and prostitute. Right. By her own account. Something like that.

[Anna]

Mm. And yeah, so those sorts of symptoms definitely are exacerbated by formative experiences. But rest in peace.

[Bobby]

For real.

[Anna]

Well, speaking of being molested and. Or molesting. So unclear.

[Bobby]

I was hoping that you.

[Anna]

Monica was saying last night that the cousin was younger. We're talking about Kanye west here, folks. He dropped an amazing song.

[Bobby]

Being a gay. Boop.

[Anna]

He's not gay and. But he gave his cousin head till he was 14.

[Bobby]

Uh huh. And the cousin was 9.

[Anna]

That's what Monica was saying, but I didn't find anything to corroborate that.

[Bobby]

He said the song is called Cousins about my cousin that's locked in jail for life for killing a pregnant lady. A few years after I told him that we wouldn't look at dirty magazines together anymore, he wrote perhaps in my self centered mess, I felt it was my fault that I showed him those dirty magazines when he was six and we acted out what we saw. My dad had Playboy magazines, but the magazines I found in the top of my mom's closet were different. Added, yay, my name is Ye and I sucked my cousin's dick until I was 14. Tweet sent. I think that's what he said.

[Anna]

So that would imply just getting the semantics that the cousin was older. Because if he killed a pregnant woman and is in jail.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

I mean he could have been a minor, but I'm assuming he was at least old in his teens, if not above over 18.

[Bobby]

This is why they pay you the.

[Anna]

Big to be tried as an adult. So a couple years after I'm assuming that's when. Yeah. He said he wasn't gonna suck his dick anymore. So he was probably older.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And. Or at least not so dressed. Some drastically younger. And if that were the case, I don't think he would be using such a confessional mode.

[Bobby]

Yeah. But it's also. Yay. So.

[Anna]

Yeah. He's a loose cannon.

[Bobby]

Yeah. But it's funny because I had the scoop on the song days before it dropped because I had a girls night with Madd, Our friend Kenna, and Maddie was telling me about the song.

[Anna]

Maddie was singing the song to me in the office.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

A couple, like, a week before I heard it.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And I was like, that's crazy. I bet I'll never hear that song. It sounds really good.

[Bobby]

She was like, yo, Kanye has this dope new track that's never going to be released.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Bobby]

Because it's about him doing incest with his cousin. And then two days later, she's on a plane to the Dominican Republic, and I'm, like, texting her furiously about the song being released, and she's like, you're telling me for the first time. That's amazing. I feel like I'm part of the story now because.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Bobby]

I knew ahead of time that the song maybe was not gonna drop, but.

[Anna]

That there was something out there. Yeah. And it's. It's even better than I thought.

[Bobby]

I. I know. The song is such a banger.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Bobby]

I know that. It's, like, probably just a demo, but I feel like he doesn't even have to release it or whatever.

[Anna]

It's released. It's got. It's.

[Bobby]

Yeah. And like, the CD lo fi quality really kind of puts you into the head space of what it must feel like to suck your cousin's dick or be sucked off by her cousin.

[Anna]

Just. It speaks to a universal human truth. I feel that everyone can kind of relate to. Yeah.

[Bobby]

I mean, the story is really sad.

[Anna]

Even if you're not addicted to nitrous.

[Bobby]

Yeah. Or porn. But it's like, I would bet that this kind of stuff is just more commonplace than we want to acknowledge across the board.

[Anna]

I think that's very true. And I think. Well, remember when Lena Dunham. Everyone was. She wrote in her, like, book of.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Personal essays about putting rocks in her sister's vagina when they were kids, and.

[Bobby]

Everyone was like, she. Yeah.

[Anna]

People were like, she molested her sister and stuff, like, really hysterical. And I think. Yeah. It's work. It's actually, like, kids do stuff that they don't understand.

[Bobby]

Yeah. It's not even molestation or pedophilia. If it's been between two kids. Classify it as. And, like, you know me, I'm kind of like a molestation art aficionado. Like, I'm a big fan of Tiger Tiger, the Margot Fragoso memoir that I talk about a lot on this podcast.

[Anna]

You got to read Incest Lie.

[Bobby]

I should. Yeah.

[Anna]

It's one of the best works of incest art of all time. I would rank it very high, Georgia.

[Bobby]

And, like, it's. You know, I. I kind of. Nothing even resembling that ever happened to me as a child. But I identify with that because growing up in New Jersey, it was just like a heavy, dark cloud of child molestation.

[Anna]

Well, again, it's not with kids. It's like, even. That's the thing is that's. There's something about trauma.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

That is so real, even if it's not done with malicious intent or, you know, he wasn't like. I. I believe that it was still, like, a shameful and traumatic ordeal.

[Bobby]

Well, it made even more shameful and traumatic after the fact, because as a child, it doesn't occur to you that it's shameful or traumatic, though. Maybe.

[Anna]

Or it. Maybe it feels wrong that you can't.

[Bobby]

Articulate, but then you go tell someone or you encounter other people talking about it, and it's just this whole, like, dark taboo thing that makes you feel like there's something horribly wrong with you. I remember.

[Anna]

And with men, especially.

[Bobby]

Yeah. Because it's gay.

[Anna]

Yeah. Like, I knew. I'm associating here to a girl I knew that I worked at a frozen yogurt store with who had a labiaplasty. We were, like, in high school.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And she told me it's because her and her sister used to take baths together and, like, pull on each other's labias.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

She needed to. To rectify it. Whatever. I don't know. That's.

[Bobby]

I mean, I remember when I was growing up in New Jersey, my apartment. Super and his wife, who seemed really old at the time, but in retrospect, were probably, like, 34 and 27, had these kids that we used to play with. They were, like, our neighbors and friends. And the girl acted really molested. Like, she did a lot of the. You show me your china and I'll show you mine. They had, like, a Pac man machine and a water bed. Like, the Pac man machine was in. In the hallway, and the waterbed was in her room, which is a weird thing for a small child to have in their room.

[Anna]

That's such a, like, 90s kind of. No, I'm not even new money. But it is, like, some. Yeah, I know you.

[Bobby]

They were, like, white trash. And the. The dad had two families. Like, he had a previous marriage and a current marriage and two sets of sons named Kevin.

[Anna]

Okay.

[Bobby]

Because his name was Kevin. And I remember, like, one of his sons, like, confessing that the reason he had come to live with his father's new family was because his mom and stepdad made him and his brother act out, like, sexual fantasies, and their older brother had aids. I don't know how true this was, but he would talk, like, openly about, like, getting diddled as a kid, which was so dark. I had another friend when I was, like, 11 or 12 who was like, should I suck this guy's dick that I'm talking to? He lives in the next town over. He's 14 years old. Oh, yeah. And he's my cousin. And, like, sometimes, like, when I'm, like, drunk and spiraling, I'll, like, look, these.

[Anna]

You give your cousin head.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Follow up your cousin.

[Bobby]

Dude, they're all so up. Like, multiple mug shots, convictions, death by suicide, death by, like, overdose. It's so bad.

[Anna]

Well, Kanye is a success story in that regard.

[Bobby]

Yeah, he's amazing.

[Anna]

I don't have any male cousins, but if I did, maybe. Maybe I would give them. Maybe I would give them a head.

[Bobby]

And also, like, the other thing that nobody wants to talk about is ghetto incest. Y'all ain't ready for that conversation.

[Anna]

No, no, no, they are not.

[Bobby]

Because, you know, like, white people on Twitter be like, I was groomed and have trauma. Black people on Twitter would be like, I lost my virginity to my auntie when I was 7 years old. Like, in the black community, they don't call it pedophilia or molestation. They call it losing your virginity.

[Anna]

Yeah, well, that's true of, like, machismo cultures, I feel.

[Bobby]

Yeah, they don't talk about their feelings.

[Anna]

And they sometimes fathers in communities in which masculinity is in foregrounded in its own way, they'll, like, take their sons to prostitutes when they're, like, 13 and stuff and have to have them, like, learn how to be a man. And so, like, that trope is.

[Bobby]

This is something that happens in Armenian culture.

[Anna]

That's what I mean. Yeah, it's. It's not as singular.

[Bobby]

People love to talk about, like, the epidemic of hot teachers grooming teen boys among white people, but, like, there's an epidemic of ghetto incest. In the black community, there just is, and everybody knows it. It's like Kanye, R. Kelly, Lil Wayne, 50 Cent. They all saw they shouldn't have at a very young age and weird happened to them at a really young age. You know that song from the Carter 2 receipt where he's like, you've been peeping me since I was younger. So young that you even called me your little brother. But I'm all grown up now, and I got my own money. I'm married and divorced, and my daughter is a. And he's talking about his daughter Regina Carter, who he had as a teen. And that album came out in 2005, and she was born in 1998. So you do the math.

[Anna]

Can you do the math for me?

[Bobby]

She's like 7 or 8, but you know how it is. It's like those in the hood where it's like the low rises versus the high rises, like in Philly or Hartford or be more in New Jersey. We have them in Miami.

[Anna]

You mean. What do you mean?

[Bobby]

Like, project.

[Anna]

Okay.

[Bobby]

Yeah, but they're like horizontal versus vertical. And, like, people be riding their bikes house to house, like, visiting their cousin.

[Anna]

I'll also say a cousin. Like, some people have a lot of cousins and like, that, too. First, second. Like, you know, some communities are more clannish than others and have bigger. And, like, sometimes you do just. Yeah. Socially encounter one's cousin.

[Bobby]

It's like those stories about, like, gay twins separated at birth who met years later, got into relationships and found out they were related. Like, you look just like me. It's like Spider Man.

[Anna]

Like, Nicola is every Croatian person's cousin.

[Bobby]

Yeah. Basically know each other.

[Anna]

Yeah. Like, he plugs in his 23andMe is like, oh, it's like a huge group.

[Bobby]

It's like you're literally related to this whole country. Genetics.

[Anna]

I guess.

[Bobby]

We all are. I guess you're more related to Belarusians, and I'm more related to Armenians than your average person. But we're all a family of man. But yeah, you know how, like, in the ghetto, there's always, like, these girls who are, like, kind of chubby and have frizzy hair and, like, the lame voice. Not lame as uncool, but lame as in literally lame.

[Anna]

Like, slow.

[Bobby]

Yeah. And they're like, hey, yo, what up? So what do you come by later?

[Anna]

I don't. I don't know that because I wasn't in the ghetto. I haven't spent a lot of time in the ghetto, even though I did live in the project in Bay Area in Las Vegas as a child.

[Bobby]

Okay. Yeah.

[Anna]

But it was very ethnically mixed. There were a lot of white kids there, for sure.

[Bobby]

Same. We grew up in, like, apartment housing, and it was a lot of, like, white trash ghetto blacks and then, like, kind of transitional Indian, Chinese, Russian immigrants who would go on to make a lot of money. But I remember, like, hanging out with this guy who was fucking when I was, like, 14 and, like, going up into, like, this shitty, like, row house in Piscataway, and there was just all these teen girls flopped on the bed, smoking weed, and one of their moms was going in and out and giving them, like, alcohol and drugs. Like, that type of scene that's really dark. It's like, really just, like. But it never occurred to me that that might be problematic. I was like, oh, this is just how life works.

[Anna]

Right.

[Bobby]

But yeah, once I got out of.

[Anna]

The project, you never looked. I didn't go. I didn't make it back.

[Bobby]

I'm still in the project ghetto. It's my comfort zone. Also, this is before your time and very east coast. But, like, listening to Midnight Confession, Swunk Master Flex on Hot 97, and girls would call in and be like, yeah, I fucked my cousin. He has down syndrome. But that dick retarded.

[Anna]

Good.

[Bobby]

He held me down with his retard strength.

[Anna]

Sounds like a golden era of radio.

[Bobby]

It was amazing. I feel like Loveline and Midnight Confessions taught me everything I needed to know about human sexuality, probably.

[Anna]

And Stern.

[Bobby]

And I would listen to them when I was, like, going to bed.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Bobby]

Like 4 in the morning.

[Anna]

Interesting.

[Bobby]

I'd, like, put on my Steve Madden platforms and dance around the room.

[Anna]

Yeah. Did cousins unearth any repression, traumatic memories?

[Bobby]

Well, I just think that Kanye is such a good artist that only you can make something as taboo and troubling as gay incest seem less gay and embarrassing.

[Anna]

Well, I gotta say, this song was written in particular, the. Well, the second half is just a. Dave Blunt's song about perks.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

But apparently Dave Blunt wrote this whole album.

[Bobby]

That guy was definitely molested. He's like the Andrea Dworkin of hip hop. He's so fat. I know.

[Anna]

It's crazy. He can't even take a selfie with his whole body. He can't. It's, like, hard to find a picture of him because he's so. He's all in the big. Like, he can't even. A photograph can't contain him. But I listen because I have to wear headphones all day.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

For aforementioned reasons. I listened to a lot of Dave Blunt's today. Yeah. He's all, I mean, everything you like about. Well, again, Kanye's really shining as a producer.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Because he's like mashing these two samples together and then, yeah, Dave Blunt's also came up with the refrain of I gave my cousin head. And then the 10 hits. To get High is just a Dave Blunt song about how he needs 10 perks to get high.

[Bobby]

He's in so much pain from being fat.

[Anna]

Well, he's. And he's addicted to his sip. His sippy cup. His most famous songs are called the cup, and it's how he can't put the cup down. But yeah, incredible, brilliant. And I think it really, once again, is tapping. Even if you didn't suck your cousin sick, even if you're not a morbidly obese black zoomer, you still feel the pain of that experience.

[Bobby]

Yeah, they really. I really like you in the zone.

[Anna]

Yeah. I'm like, I. I know what it feels. I'm so immobilized by, like, hormonal dread that, like, I may as well be an obese black boy in Iowa. Like, there's like a universal pain here.

[Bobby]

You kind of have like the palette of a fat black nerd.

[Anna]

What, right now?

[Bobby]

No, like your. Your food preferences.

[Anna]

He has a song called Taco Bell. I like anime. Yeah. I'm alienated.

[Bobby]

Like, you go somewhere and everyone's having steak and dash is like, I'm gonna have some fried chicken.

[Anna]

Steaks. Overrated, honestly.

[Bobby]

Yes, you're right. But yeah, Kanye is like single handedly exploding the two biggest taboos, which are on racism and pedophilia slash incest, which is great. I mean, he has such, like, truly lethal artistic instincts. And people love to like concern, troll about him and be like, well, he's mentally ill. He's going through it. He should seek help. He's a danger to himself and others and all this. But I feel like his mental illness hasn't really negatively impacted his artistic instincts, and if anything, it's sharpened them.

[Anna]

The nitrous's work. I was very. Today I was like, should I do some nitrous? Like, I've done it before, but, you know, not in a while. And I was like, yeah, he got me hankering. But Riley said he thought that would be disgusting. Disgusting 34 year old woman who's about.

[Bobby]

To get married and has a career.

[Anna]

If I started doing whippets.

[Bobby]

Yeah, she got really fat. I'm not just saying that. Intrasexual competition, it could just be an interesting social experiment.

[Anna]

Like, I Said to you, I think people will be nicer to me.

[Bobby]

Dash blondes.

[Anna]

I think people would be kinder to me.

[Bobby]

They would be. Yeah.

[Anna]

If I wasn't so thin. But, sorry, that's the way God made me.

[Bobby]

But it turns out having, like, good artistic instincts is pretty simple. You just have to go for the biggest taboos. It's like Donald Trump, you know that, like, talking point.

[Anna]

It's not that simple. It.

[Bobby]

Okay.

[Anna]

I'll say being willing to simple, but it's not easy. Yeah. Being willing to engage with taboos will make your work potentially stronger. But whatever Kanye has, whatever he's a channel for.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Is. Yeah. Distinct and can't be.

[Bobby]

Well, I think it's just like, really cool that he's openly making art about these shameful experiences that most people would be too embarrassed to air. And like. Yeah. It's like the Donald Trump thing where they're like, talking about another powerful Gemini with killer instincts when they're like, oh. Like the whole thing with Art of the Deal where it's like he has one negotiating tactic and he talks about it in the Art of the Deal. And every time he does something, people, like, panic and it's like, read Art of the Deal in which he says, like, I haven't even read Art of the Deal. I've, like, skimmed it. What he talks about. Right. Like how you have to, like, so chaos.

[Anna]

Yeah. You come in hot.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And then you tr. Then they'll meet you more than halfway. Yeah.

[Bobby]

Because you create panic, which gives you leverage because people are like, what did he mean by that? That boop is crazy.

[Anna]

Vladimir, stop. I love that. That really resonated with me. Just because that feeling of just. I'm just. Just stop. Art of the Deal. Sometimes you just gotta tell someone to stop.

[Bobby]

See if that works.

[Anna]

Yeah. Maybe it will. Yeah. Kanye posted some tick tock of a guy talking about how he was wearing the black Klansman fit because in a reference to the Spanish Inquisition, when they were doing their inquiries, when they were being a little inquisitive and rounding up the Jews and the moors, who he said were like black alchemists and like mathematician, like the black super race. And they.

[Bobby]

They weren't even black. Dude.

[Anna]

He claims they were the real Jews. Right. The blacks. And they were the ones that weren't killed were made to wear, like, what look like Klansmen outfits, but way back when.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

As a symbol of their sin.

[Bobby]

Huh.

[Anna]

And that's what kind like putting on the black clan's hood. Klansman hood. Kanye's like, showing us something profound. He's showing us a memory. That's what. Which I thought was really cool and, like, black alchemist style. Like. Yeah, he's like. It's. He's actually not being a Edge Lord. He's, like, being a. He's refracting, like, a memory in the collective unconscious back to us about what happened to black magician and the Catholic Church and. Yeah, I wouldn't have seen this if Kanye didn't amplify it, so thank you. I sat my white ass down and listened.

[Bobby]

The Yugoslav wars.

[Anna]

It's very. His. The Balkan terror aesthetic is very up his alley with the ski masks and the violence, for sure. It's very Tumblr. It's very, you know.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

So sick.

[Bobby]

And he also just has, like, good taste because he's a gay nerd.

[Anna]

He's a cuck.

[Bobby]

Yeah, That's. That's also. He's a rape. Because, you know, cucks are actually really powerful people at the end of the day.

[Anna]

So. True.

[Bobby]

They're not weak and powerless. It's like the thing TLP says, their fantasy is not watching their girl get railed out by a bunch of guys. Their fantasy is depriving their girl of their own love and affection.

[Anna]

Well, yes, but that's. There's people who, like. That's like, someone with, like, a cuckolding fetish.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And a lot of people. But a. Is just someone who's been cucked. It's like being raped.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

It just happens to you.

[Bobby]

Yeah. You're by life.

[Anna]

Everyone's cucked and raped by life.

[Bobby]

It's universal experience.

[Anna]

Exactly.

[Bobby]

So.

[Anna]

But when in a. Like, a fetish context, that's what usually why people develop those fetishes is because they already feel cucked. And so they're like. It makes them feel powerful to, like, make someone cuck them.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

It's twisted.

[Bobby]

Yeah. They're reclaiming the narrative.

[Anna]

Exactly. And Kanye's doing that as well.

[Bobby]

This really, like.

[Anna]

And I can't wait to hear Cuck.

[Bobby]

Unlocked dislodged a lot of repressed memories for me. I was also thinking about.

[Anna]

Feels like a huge breakthrough because I.

[Bobby]

Saw that girl, Lily Phillips, on some podcasts talking about how she was first exposed to porn when she was 11. I was like, whatever. You were practically a woman. I saw porn for the first time when I was, like, six years old.

[Anna]

How.

[Bobby]

Because of a black guy.

[Anna]

Interesting.

[Bobby]

Who, in retrospect, was very like, Kanye Core. He was not, like, a typical guy you would associate with being black. He was not like, a Thug or a hood. And he was not one of those like professional.

[Anna]

He had autism.

[Bobby]

Like a medium camel coat on the train to his fifty thousand dollar a year job. He was a weird nerd incel who wore all black like baggy hoodies and like dickies. He lived in the apartment beneath us and we would sort of rub our neck outside of his window because his room was like papered floor to ceiling. And porn. And he would have the TV on with porn.

[Anna]

Goon cave.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Interesting. Ancient goon cave from the 90s. Analog. Because. Yeah. I probably. I saw porn. Well that's not true.

[Bobby]

What were you gonna say?

[Anna]

I was gonna say on the Internet.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

But I have this crazy memory. Of being molested? No, of being like six. And I don't think my parents took me to like a sex shop. But we were in Las Vegas for sure and I was in some kind of novelty store. That definitely had like a naughty element to it. I don't think it was like a full on like sex shop. But I remember looking at a greeting card.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

That had like. That's a Goldilocks and the three. And it was like this one's too big, this one's too small. This one's just right. Kind of like raunchy or crumby and cartoon and being. Yeah. Like unsettled and scared. And then I'm sure just in like the atmosphere of Las Vegas in Reno and Atlantic City. I was exposed to pornographic images. But like real, real like vivid. I'm looking at pornography was like probably 10 or 11 on the Internet.

[Bobby]

Yeah. Which. But it's cute that we're synced and basically saw porn for the first time.

[Anna]

At six years old or saw something. Yeah.

[Bobby]

Wildly inappropriate.

[Anna]

But I bet kids these days. Kids these days are seeing it even younger online. Cuz it's like extremely ubiquitous. It's all one big goon cave now you don't even have to crane your neck.

[Bobby]

The world is a goon cave. Plato's goon cave.

[Anna]

But it made it. Yeah, it clearly made an impression because you made some beautiful art out of it. Much like Kanye West.

[Bobby]

Yeah. I don't remember feeling confused or disturbed when I saw porn for the first time. I was like, yes.

[Anna]

I remember finding my dad's Russian Playboys and those feeling. I was definitely younger than 11.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

But they're. They were so glossy that they felt like. It didn't feel as seedy even. It felt kind of like.

[Bobby]

Yeah. It's like high production.

[Anna]

Yeah. That didn't leave an impression on me.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

As much.

[Bobby]

But, like, basically, childhood was a giant, like, expedition to find an encounter porn. Like, going to Barnes and Noble, the adult section, and putting one book inside of another book and, like, hiding in the corner and some fucking fat and be running up on you and telling her mother. My parents were really, really wholesome in spite of the fact that they had, like, not the best marriage. They never exposed us to anything weird or creepy. Like, they did a good job, like, shielding us from that.

[Anna]

Mine did as best as they could.

[Bobby]

But I always appreciate my mom because she was super cool about all of these weird encounters and would just laugh it off. Like, when the Barnes and Noble employee, like, marched me over to my mom, she just laughed. And when I was. I have a vivid up Freudian memory that I probably shouldn't say on the pod, but in the spirit of con.

[Anna]

Yeah, let's get into it.

[Bobby]

He really inspired me because it's like, oh, you can just say anything and it ceases to be shameful or embarrassing.

[Anna]

Every time he has, like, a proliferation of creative activity, I feel like it somehow recharged and, like, some. Something exciting. It feels exciting. He's so. It's so hard in 2025.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

To do something exciting.

[Bobby]

Yeah, It's. It's also like, the same effect that Donald Trump produces where you're like, yes.

[Anna]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bobby]

You feel you, like, are temporarily, like.

[Anna]

It, like, shocks you out of this. Like, veil's been lifted.

[Bobby]

But I remember being like, this was in Russia, so I must have been three or four years old, not even five. And I did the thing that all kids do where I would, like, masturbate for exploratory reasons versus then for sexual pleasure. And my mom's mom was like, a very straight laced, conservative peasant woman who was like a Christianka, and she was really freaked out by anything sexual or trashy. And I remember her, like, pulling the covers off of me and discovering me and calling my mom in to scold me, which could have been truly disastrous. But my mom just kind of laughed her off. So I really appreciate that woman because much like Kanye and Trump, she's a true Gemini chaos agent.

[Anna]

Very interesting.

[Bobby]

And she raised me right.

[Anna]

I mean, yeah, she. That could have been a much more traumatic incident.

[Bobby]

Well, yeah, I think the big trauma comes from being, like, shamed and scolded for what are, on the whole, like, natural impulses. When I was little, I really wanted to be a gynecologist. Like, that's so crazy. I wanted to, like, professionally stare at people's genitals. It's so mentally ill.

[Anna]

Yeah, that's. I mean, someone's gotta do it. And it's probably early childhood stuff that sets someone down that path, you know?

[Bobby]

But I don't know. It's, like, tough. I live in fear of, like, having a kid in the global goon cave because you want to shield them as much as possible, and that's really, like, probably not very practical.

[Anna]

Once they get online, it's.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

It basically impossible, I feel. So you. The best. You have to just kind of make them robust and resilient before they. Before they. Before they log on. Yeah. You have to decide. You have to fry those dopamine receptors really early.

[Bobby]

Send me those links so I know what to avoid.

[Anna]

I actually had Kanye muted because he was posed when he was posting a lot of pornography.

[Bobby]

I was a little, like, not disturbing.

[Anna]

I was like. I just. It's. But then I unmuted because I was like, I don't want to miss this.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

I'm back.

[Bobby]

Wait, I, like, googled. I, like, searched my photos for Kanye because I have, like, all these screens. Screenshots.

[Anna]

I'm gonna read the track list. Thing of cock. Which, again, this was mostly written by Dave Blunt, and if it's anything like his discography, we're in for a extreme treat. World War Three. Cosby Free. Diddy, cousins. Bianca. Number six. Virgil. Let me down. Number seven. Heil Hitler. Number eight, Hitler.

[Bobby]

Yay.

[Anna]

And Jesus. Nine, Jared. Ten, money and fame. Track 11, nitrous.

[Bobby]

I was like, is he talking about Jared Fogle? But he's clearly talking about Jared Kushner.

[Anna]

He's not my Jared Kushner.

[Bobby]

Yeah, it's like, damn.

[Anna]

Well, Dave Blunt uses hard R in his songs, which is an interesting, very, like, opiate cadence.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

The er Is he.

[Bobby]

He's a west coast guy.

[Anna]

He's from Salt Lake City originally, but is, like, from Iowa, which is, like. He's Midwest, I guess. And he's going on tour, but I'll be on my honeymoon, so maybe I'm gonna have to cancel it to go to the Dave Blunt's concert.

[Bobby]

He went viral on tour just to see how fat he is in person.

[Anna]

Well, he went viral for having, like, a oxygen tank or something on stage.

[Bobby]

He has to, like, sit in the wire.

[Anna]

He's, like, 600 pounds. He's absolutely huge.

[Bobby]

That sucks, man. I mean, the last time we had a morbidly obese rapper, you know what happened? So I hope he, like, makes it out and loses the weight.

[Anna]

This could be big for him. Could be big for him. And he said it's not an anti semi cosmetic album. And he knows that because he wrote the whole thing.

[Bobby]

Yeah. And there's really no incentive for him to lose weight because it's not like he's not getting.

[Anna]

I mean, I wonder about. Because he has a lot of sexual content in his music. I'm like, can he even. How.

[Bobby]

No way.

[Anna]

How are you getting head? How can.

[Bobby]

How you have to, like, lift up all these legs.

[Anna]

He could lie down. I only lying down, surely.

[Bobby]

It's like unpacking a shipping container. There's a bunch of, like, dead prostitutes up in there.

[Anna]

But that's what's amazing about art, you know, is you can be free to say anything and you can be free in it in a way that transcends your wretched human form.

[Bobby]

True.

[Anna]

You know, you don't have to be in this prison. You can tell I'm about to get my period. I'm like, I feel. Yeah, today I really was like, now.

[Bobby]

Kittens, the walls are closing.

[Anna]

Yeah. I was like, I feel like an animal and I want nothing more than to be out of this experience.

[Bobby]

Yeah. Every time you get your period, you feel like Dave Blunt.

[Anna]

Yes. Seriously. I was like, I'm. It's as hard for me to move. £600 is bearing down on me and because, yeah, you just. You feel so much better when it starts, you know, and if you aren't, I think it's the thing about tracking your cycle that sucks is then it like, amplifies your awareness, which is good and bad. But sometimes I just will be like, hysterical and crying and not know why, and then get my period. But now I'm kind of like, oh, I know I'm going to get my period. And so I can, like, triangulate all these symptoms. But then it, like, maybe I feel a little too entitled to lean into the sensation rather than, like, yeah, you know, I'm like, I'm giving myself space.

[Bobby]

Well, you. That's very wise and noble of you, but you don't want to, like, say that out in the open because you want to, you know, art of the deal. Be able to use your PMS's leverage against men especially.

[Anna]

I think it is good to be open about where you're at in your cycle, you know, because then you don't have to weaponize it as much as it's more of, like an honest exchange or just where you're at. And yeah, you're, like, more sensitive to experiences, so you have to treadle carefully. Then you can avoid, you know, hopefully.

[Bobby]

We've said this a million times, but it's so true. Like, every time you're about to get your period, you're, like, addled and inconsolable.

[Anna]

There's nothing to do. There's nothing.

[Bobby]

Every single time you forget that you're about to get your period, even if.

[Anna]

You know you're about to get doesn't.

[Bobby]

Matter and feel, like, so damaged and defective, you're like, what's wrong with me that I'm an adult woman and I can't get it together and I'm crying because I saw a cute dog.

[Anna]

I do nitrous, and I want to do nitrous. Like Kanye west, even though he says it doesn't help him. Yeah, but I'm like, a trance sounds okay.

[Bobby]

I want to abandon my family and, like, go live in a van on the Pacific Northwest and become a survivalist or get really fat just to see what it's like. You. You see pics of Stav now in light of Dave Blunt's, and you're like, oh, he's like one of those guys that was in a freak show and considered morbidly obese in 1900. He's just normal.

[Anna]

I know. I look at old pictures of him from an Adam when I were going to Japan, and it's crazy how he was comically fat then, and he's not. He looks skinny in those pictures.

[Bobby]

Hey, I have a great guest idea for Adam Friedland show.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Bobby]

Dave Blondes. Get him in that chair. Seriously, they're gonna have to put a whole couch on stage.

[Anna]

That is a good idea. I bet he could do it. If anyone can do it, Adam can. Yeah, he can't get up to your third floor. Walk up, so he won't be coming on Red Scare podcast.

[Bobby]

He can't fit into this room.

[Anna]

This is, like, the size of Dave blond, Dave blonde. He's. It's. He probably weighs more than both of us combined.

[Bobby]

Yeah, definitely, because we trade £300 for the weight limit of your average elevator. The fat jokes don't really hit when a guy is like, well, you can't.

[Anna]

Yeah. It goes without saying, but, hey, Kanye.

[Bobby]

And Dave Blunt's the two coolest black guys in the world. Now that BLM has made black people.

[Anna]

Uncool, the Met Gala is gonna. I really hope Kanye's there. I know you. I know they're not gonna invite him in, but if there was ever a black dandy.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

A black flaneur. It's Kanye West's.

[Bobby]

The new Criterion gala is my Met gala.

[Anna]

Literally, so sad.

[Bobby]

It is.

[Anna]

I'm like, it's a gala. I'm going to gala. I'm gonna sit in the corner of.

[Bobby]

This gala, sit at the kids table, all over in the back where no one can see us.

[Anna]

But yeah. The theme for the Met Gala is.

[Bobby]

Being a download brother.

[Anna]

Literally, it kind of is being a download brother.

[Bobby]

Your cousin's dick. That article that you sent me was hilarious.

[Anna]

Wait, which one?

[Bobby]

About it was like a HuffPo.

[Anna]

Oh, yeah.

[Bobby]

Article. This year's Matt Gala theme is a brazen defiance of Trump's anti DEI agenda. Held on May 5 this year, theme and exhibition which opens to the public.

[Anna]

It's called Super Fine Tailoring Black Style.

[Bobby]

The assignment for the throngs of attending celebrities and fashion icons is to dress in a style that's tailored for you. The theme draws inspiration From Monica Miller's 2009 book, Slaves to Fashion, Black Dandyism and the styling of Black Diasporic identity. Miller, chair of Africana Cities at Barnard College, also is a guest curator for the exhibition. Vogue hosts the yearly event to fundraise for for the Costume Institute, which with tickets for entry at 75,000. It's so funny when black people try to sound smart and their thesis is, like, being gay. They put on, like, a bow tie and a vest like Stacey Adams.

[Anna]

Yeah, I bet that book's mad annoying. But it's the first real Met Gala that is menswear centric.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

I read in Time wrote like, everything you need to know about the Met Gala explainer thing. And they said that there was an exhibit in 2003 called Men in Skirts. But the theme of the Met Gala that year was like, Greco Roman. It was like goddesses. It was like, whatever. And that was like an exhibit within it. And this is before Anna Wintour made the Met Gala, what we kind of know it to be now. So men just wore tuxedos, and it was like, Jake Gyllenhaal looking, like, low key. And like, not a big. It wasn't. It wasn't really a red carpet. And I actually intrigued. It's night. The nice thing about this theme is that celebs can't just ignore it and dress. Like, a lot of people aren't gonna go to the Macaulay.

[Bobby]

They should just all go in black.

[Anna]

Exactly. Like, what are you gonna do?

[Bobby]

Like, how are you gonna honor the spirit and identity of black culture?

[Anna]

What are you.

[Bobby]

Without getting canceled? And I think a lot of people.

[Anna]

Are just not gonna go.

[Bobby]

Yeah, because.

[Anna]

No. Well, because it's also the politics of it is. A designer has to invite you and dress you.

[Bobby]

Right.

[Anna]

And so I don't think we'll see. Really? People gonna be dressed in a white celeb up like a black dandy.

[Bobby]

Well, no. No white people go to the Met gala anymore. It's all like black celebs like Tyla and Taylor Russell. It's like fashion's night out.

[Anna]

While Sienna Miller.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Goes lots of like lower tier celebs.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Kind of go like Kate Bosworth always looks gorgeous.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And you're like, haven't heard of like.

[Bobby]

Really pretty waifish actresses from like the early odds.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Bobby]

Who are now like, they're still doing the round.

[Anna]

Yes. Have you know some gay guy Love.

[Bobby]

Smiled upon them because they're friends of Zach Posen. You know, when I think of black dandies they mentioned like Martin Luther King, who I don't associate with dandyism at all, and Dapper Dan, who I know nothing about because he doubt because dapper.

[Anna]

Is in the name.

[Bobby]

But when I think of like a. A well dressed black dandy, I think of like Miles Davis or Andre 3000 or even Pharrell.

[Anna]

Like both Corral's on the board. Him and A.S.A.P. rocky.

[Bobby]

Okay. Another. Yeah.

[Anna]

So they're going to come out. Rihanna is going to do something exciting. But it'll. It's interesting because yeah, they're centering, you know, black style, black. The black experience.

[Bobby]

Uhhuh.

[Anna]

Right on, brother. Brother man. Superman. But that's. And that's super fine. But still, people like. It does ironically shift the focus onto white people because people are gonna be like, let's see how these white people are gonna interpret the theme.

[Bobby]

It's like the mission impossible meme of trying to get to the thing through lasers.

[Anna]

It actually paradoxically de centers the black experience by making introducing this like, racial and gendered taboo into the theme that the few white people that do go are gonna have to like, conform to. Yeah.

[Bobby]

It's gonna be a real minefield for them.

[Anna]

And that'll be intriguing.

[Bobby]

Anna Winter is smart about how to move fashion through cultural movements and progress, cultural conversations, said Emil Wilbiken, assistant professor in the marketing communication department at the Fashion Institute of Technology. He explained the cultural significance of this year's theme, noting, with the super fine exhibition happening in the era of Trump and anti di, the rolling back of civil rights bills, laws and policies, here comes this exhibition that's celebrating the very thing being rolled back. It's a very high and very intellectual form of resistance. Wilbur, who created Native Sunshine Queer Tiforum for the representation of black gay men goes on. Goes on to explain that of any event, the Met Gala has the highest engagement across all social platforms.

[Anna]

Not this year.

[Bobby]

Each year.

[Anna]

Well, this year it's not going to be as popular. I bet.

[Bobby]

Imagine all of these black male celebrities, authors, thought leaders, athletes, actors and playwrights on the steps of the Metropolitan Museum of Art. It's going to be profound. Because of the instant and viral power of social media, the resonance of these images is going to be exported exponential. Black people be sounding like me when they try to sound smart. It's like word salad. Did a black person write this essay? They're like, it's exponentially profound.

[Anna]

What's his name? Jeremy Slave play.

[Bobby]

Oh, Jeremy O. Harris.

[Anna]

I bet he'll be there.

[Bobby]

He'll be up in there. It's going to be Billy Porter who's, like, the biggest, most mid di hire ever. Like, I don't know who let that guy in.

[Anna]

But menswear. Interesting.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

That's fun. It's nice. It's men, you know?

[Bobby]

Yeah. I mean. I mean, I'm interested in it because.

[Anna]

Like, I think we'll see some have style. We're gonna see. Yeah, for sure. I think I like, I'm. I'm probably. I'm probably black dandy that got into.

[Bobby]

Like, neoliberal kitsch or whatever.

[Anna]

And it's better than, yeah, just being like, heavenly bodies where it's like, look at my body.

[Bobby]

Like, just people be, like, big and ambiguous.

[Anna]

Yeah. They really gave them, like, a challenge that they had to either accept.

[Bobby]

I wish I was invited this year so I can show up and head to toe supreme. I was thinking of just, like, wearing Cedric the Entertainer. The new criterion, like Rachel Chandler style. No makeup, a hoodie. They need to honor bone thugs and Wu Tang Clan. I mean, new criterion, you know? No, you know how I am. I'm, like, the biggest wigger ever. And to me, like, the pinnacle of fashion was, like, late 90s, early 2000s rappers.

[Anna]

So, yeah, it was, like, ludicrous.

[Bobby]

Lil Wayne, like, they all had so much swag.

[Anna]

There's this book you've got to check out. It's called From Slavery to the Ghetto.

[Bobby]

That's also so funny because they slaves.

[Anna]

Slaves to fat. It's called slaves to fashion. That's so lazy.

[Bobby]

It's a nod to dandyism, which originated during the transatlantic slave trade when masters would dress their slaves up in an quote, ostentatious manner to mirror their aesthetic and distinguish the house slaves from the field slaves. So you're saying the theme is Gone with the Wind, which you won't do and which Elena Velez already did.

[Anna]

Interesting.

[Bobby]

This is like last night when Heather McDonald was really laying into Edward Saeed. I really didn't expect that evening to turn into like an Orientalism bash fest, but I was here for it.

[Anna]

Pleasantly surprised. She really rizzed us up.

[Bobby]

But she was basically saying that all these like woke academics try to pretend that like art history and archaeology were a white, white man's way of plundering and despoiling.

[Anna]

Yeah. She talked about the MATT exhibit on the Dutch.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

What was it?

[Bobby]

The Dutch master.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And that the still lives neglected to depict. There was like wall text that was like the violence of colonialism is auspiciously absent.

[Bobby]

It's missing Dutch still lives. They weren't thinking about how people like 400 years later would interpret their paintings of inanimate objects. But it's like obviously like those people single handedly preserved the artifacts and traditions of these cultures, which it didn't occur to the people who were living in those cultures to do, even though all of that stuff was just like laying in ruin around them.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Bobby]

So funny. And also it's like dandyism is clearly like black men emulating English culture, which they still do to this day. It's like Tyrone is a old British name. I think it's like Iris or something. Yeah.

[Anna]

Right. It's like the way Russian people were obsessed with France.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Before the Bolsheviks.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Like, but like an Anglo African American.

[Bobby]

Like a lot of black cultural and aesthetic conventions are basically mimicry of like posh British culture.

[Anna]

Colonial.

[Bobby]

Yeah, Colonial aesthetics.

[Anna]

Which are great.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

They're also improved upon by the swaggy blacks. Yeah.

[Bobby]

That's the thing. It's literally. It's cultural appropriation which is good and interesting.

[Anna]

Yeah. It's gonna be, I think, a cool. A cool one.

[Bobby]

Yeah. I'm interested in seeing how it goes. We can have Paul Kupo back on.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Bobby]

Since he's worked for like television advice.

[Anna]

Perfect. Yeah.

[Bobby]

And when I first met him, I thought he was maybe a little black or Hispanic at least.

[Anna]

Arab.

[Bobby]

Yeah. It's like, you know when they talk about how chattel slavery basically destroyed the black family, which it did because it tore children from their parents. There's even like a plot line in Gone with the Wind where Scarlet's loyal and beloved house slave persuades her to buy his wife from a neighboring plantation so they can be together again. Something like that. I may not be remembering it correctly, but did African slaves who were coming from these, like, tribes and villages, like, have a concept of like the Western bourgeois nuclear family as such. Like.

[Anna]

Come on, that's a good point.

[Bobby]

Like, did they have traditional families in the sense that we think of them? No.

[Anna]

That's another. Yeah. It's a colonial framework imposed on an enslaved population.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

So not only did it rip their families apart, it created the family. The idea of the family. The family.

[Bobby]

Only to destroy it.

[Anna]

Yeah. It's really like multifaceted in its oppression.

[Bobby]

Dandyism also connotes hyper attention to public presentation, which traditionally sits in the realm of the feminine according to archaic gender binaries. Trends in menswear and male grooming over the past 10 years support the idea of a shift in the male aesthetic that embraces gender fluidity. Another notion the Gallus theme touches upon. This notion can be seen as an act of resistance because it's diametrically opposed to the hyper masculinity endorsed by Trump, Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg of late. When you see white supremacists gather in dc, the look is of a mix of athleisure, the red maga hat and hate. Wilbicin said they're poor.

[Anna]

They're poor. Right.

[Bobby]

Over the past 10 years, the male aesthetic is more preppy and well done. Thank Saxon Ratcliffe in the White Lotus.

[Anna]

That is so crazy. That's so crazy.

[Bobby]

Yeah, it's like, what are we talking about here? We're talking about like maga chuds who are white trash.

[Anna]

Yeah. It's literally making like a really. It's like a cli. It is.

[Bobby]

It's like literally, it's a volume.

[Anna]

It's a vulgar. It's vulgar class reductionism. But you know, for the right cause non leftist frame, it's saying like white people dress like this, but really you're saying poor people dress like this.

[Bobby]

Yeah, yeah.

[Anna]

Poor people care about masculinity. Rich people are faggots. Yeah, exactly. They take a little more attention. And the faggoty way the. They should just make the theme faggots.

[Bobby]

Yeah. Larry Kramer, Faggot dress code.

[Anna]

Faggoty. You gotta make sure you look real faggoty this year.

[Bobby]

And it's like, obviously like black culture is like already like flamboyant and hyper masculine. Because also I. It's like the thing that we were talking about with Tea Chat about the commonalities between like Russian and black culture where, like, it's basically a culture that's like voluntarily or involuntarily matriarchy. It's like in the bird kingdom, where the men are more flamboyant than the women. And usually among humans, it's like the other way around.

[Anna]

Yeah. Though there's. Yeah. A lot of variation. But conventionally. Yeah. Fashion's kind of a. Well, it is such a gay. It's not even that.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Transgressive to do gay guys to be gay.

[Bobby]

And fashion, like, that wasn't. But also like lumping Trump and Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg together, it's like, first of all, Trump and Mark Zuckerberg already dressed like black guys. Well, Trump is aspirational to that community. And Zuckerberg. Yeah.

[Anna]

He's having like a wiggery glow up.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

He also is like hair.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Elon Musk has autism. Zuckerberg wasn't maga until it was advantageous for him to be.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

So is irrelevant.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Isn't a good, like, example of anything besides, like.

[Bobby]

Mindless conformity. Yeah. Like corporate.

[Anna]

Corporate interests mirroring larger political cultural trends. But Elon Musk would be a good theme.

[Bobby]

Yeah. Autism.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Bobby]

Why not a spectrum?

[Anna]

Why not the autism thing?

[Bobby]

It'd be good for Cara Delevingne.

[Anna]

Let the autist shine.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Kanye would also do a great job that year too. They really. Come on. Let him go. Anna Winter, if you're listening, committee that.

[Bobby]

Comes up with the themes. Cuz that seems so much like I don't even have to be invited. Cuz I'm like poor and a loser.

[Anna]

I've been watching Project Runway.

[Bobby]

Oh, yeah. Like the old seasons.

[Anna]

No, no. Because Elena's making me a dress, but she asked me to source the fabric. And so I went to Mood and a couple other fabric. I bought too much fabric. I like didn't. I was like spurging and you know, picked out some I didn't have. I wasn't like any fabric. It was like a specific stretch and weight. So I had. But then I picked one that was like not the best. Maybe like a little sallow. But then I was like, oh, yeah, Mood from Project Runway. And it's crazy how no one really from that show was successful at all.

[Bobby]

No.

[Anna]

And the like Michael Kors, Heidi Klum, that bitch from Mary Claire magazine, they're on such a high horse about like Lopez or whatever.

[Bobby]

Yes.

[Anna]

They're on such a high horse about like Heidi Kum's always like, this is not cool.

[Bobby]

It's like the three people with the worst fashion in the fashion world.

[Anna]

It really and all.

[Bobby]

They have like the tackiest, worst taste ever.

[Anna]

It's awesome.

[Bobby]

They're like, you should throw on some jewel tones. Bedazzle that.

[Anna]

Yeah. You know, the judges don't want to see something boring.

[Bobby]

Yeah. Yeah. Also such a vibe.

[Anna]

So true.

[Bobby]

It's like when you think of mediocrity, you think of fit.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Bobby]

It's so crazy how in the fashion it's like films actually. So few people who have good taste.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Bobby]

Like you could probably count them on one hand. And two of them are the Olsen twins.

[Anna]

Who else is? I mean, I like Sienna Moon. Once again. I'm going to ride for her.

[Bobby]

She.

[Anna]

I hope she goes to the mag gala and still just does like a boho thing. I hope she just does a completely like. I hope Chloe invites her and just dresses her in like a early aughts like boho fit. Just ignore the assignment completely.

[Bobby]

Just like a low rise skirt and a Moroccan belt.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Bobby]

And galoshes.

[Anna]

It's giving house slave.

[Bobby]

I feel like. Yeah. This year it's like dangerous for white people and probably bad for black people because they have no constraints. They can just be themselves. Which all people kind of like start to lose it when they have too much freedom.

[Anna]

Yeah. Maybe they won't. Maybe they need to be restrained in some kind of system. I'm just kidding. I don't anti slavery all okay. And I'm super woke and excited for the Met gala and I love black fashion and menswear. But yeah, like I said, I think the whites are gonna kind of be of more interest.

[Bobby]

It's like that Nick landline about how like who knew that cheap labor would be so expensive?

[Anna]

I've never. I've never read Neck Land.

[Bobby]

No, it was tweet he had. I've also never read Nick Land because.

[Anna]

It'S like delusion, like gibberish.

[Bobby]

Yeah. It's a Duganesque.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Bobby]

I hope ASAP. Rocky does like the 2009 Alexander Wang.

[Anna]

Fit him and Rihanna's gonna really, you know, she's gonna be the creative director.

[Bobby]

Oh, really? Like officially?

[Anna]

No, no. I just mean of their relationship and public appearances.

[Bobby]

I love Rihanna so much. Unironically. I know she's your natal twin dead ass. I really relate to her Stone Cold who had kids and became like all maternal all of a sudden.

[Anna]

I relate to her as someone who did some stuff and doesn't do stuff anymore who isn't gonna make a new.

[Bobby]

Album.

[Anna]

Cuz she's doing some. She's doing something else that we all want it, but she's not going to.

[Bobby]

They're my favorite black nuclear family cuz they clearly just like love each other so much and they love their kids so much.

[Anna]

I mean and she's such a prize. Drake has that line too about in one of his maybe All Me where he talks about how he fucked his babysitter as like a child. He's like alludes to some.

[Bobby]

That's so Jewish. He's trying to be black, but it comes off as Jewish.

[Anna]

Like the Jew. A Jewish babysitter. Should we talk about. Sorry, the woman. The sphere.

[Bobby]

The what?

[Anna]

The woman.

[Bobby]

Read that article. I just like scroll down to the part where they mention us.

[Anna]

They barely mention us.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

It's not about us.

[Bobby]

Yeah. I don't even know why we're on that list.

[Anna]

We're. We're not really. It's. I think that this piece is EV Magazine.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

PR placement. Puff piece.

[Bobby]

Definitely. Yeah.

[Anna]

And because it talks about like Candace Owens and then like some right wing. Oh, and what's her name? From the one whose brother. What's her. She has a boy's name. Cooper. Brett.

[Bobby]

Brett.

[Anna]

Brett Cooper. Right.

[Bobby]

I was gonna say Brit Marling and then I remembered she's like an early aughts actress.

[Anna]

It's her. Candace Owens. Some like kind of crunchy health influencer, kind of maha coded girl who is conservative but is repackaging it in a threatening. You know, she's slipping the insidious conservative ideas into her like preoccupation with health.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Which is a larger trend. And then we're really like a foot note.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

But then I think because there is no real womanist fear, they selected selectively placed us like in this image to make it seem like they were talking about something real. But really they're just talking about EV magazine.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Which no one reads.

[Bobby]

Yeah. It's like I have a vague awareness of all these people, but I don't engage with that segment of the media.

[Anna]

I don't claim them.

[Bobby]

Yeah, they don't claim us either. Technically.

[Anna]

Yeah. The girl, Alex Clark, who they say panders to.

[Bobby]

Never heard of her.

[Anna]

Well, cuz she's like a zoomer. Like if you were probably on Tik Tok, you might know. I don't know. But she allegedly panders to cute, cute servatives. And they say the title of Clark's videos take a harmless Jessica asking questions tone that invites people to click and see for themselves. Yet far from providing options for women, Clark allows her guests to pedal scientifically dubious claims in service of a Christian conservative worldview. An episode called To Vax or Not to Vaxx features an interview with an outspoken Anti vaccine doctor Bob Sears who has been disciplined. Anna disciplined. He was disciplined by California State medical board for wrongly exempting a two year old patient from vaccinations.

[Bobby]

What kind of vaccinations? The COVID vaccine probably.

[Anna]

I mean who know. But like yeah even that just like okay. They have like some credentialed disciplinarian measure that was taken against some guy who got a 2 said a 2 year old shouldn't be vaccinated erroneously. And it doesn't take long for Aaron Kirati, the Catholic think tank fellow interviewed on Is IVF a huge ethical mistake to tell listeners that there's no such thing as an ethical way to perform ivf. Which. Okay, she's a Christian.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Her content she crusade against topics such as birth control, that it accelerates aging, induces abortion, causes cancer and fertility issues.

[Bobby]

Leads to depression.

[Anna]

Yeah. And that this is makes sense in light of the Trump administration's pronatalist policy agenda. Then it gets into Turning Point USA investing in a 350 allegedly conservative influencers, which I'm sure is true. And then But Evie's really kind of like they quote people like freelance writers for Evie because they are all. But then they say Evie's reach shouldn't be overstated. It has 200,000 followers on Instagram compared. Oh my God, compared with Cosmopolitan's 4 million. And has only put out three print issues in four years. But they're increasingly finding new ways to garner attention by featuring the ballerina farms girl. And then they talk to someone who's like a conservative pagan who writes for them. And it's the most like that's teal money. That's what teal money is. That's EV magazine.

[Bobby]

But everybody knows by now that funding financing influencers is a losing game because the whole point of being successful at influencing is that your appeal has to be organic.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Bobby]

It's like the whole thing that we were talking about how like the Democrats take away from the second Trump term was that we need to fund more leftist Joe Rogan.

[Anna]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bobby]

Never mind that he's already kind of a leftist, but whatever.

[Anna]

Well they make the case that yeah like they don't see Rogan obviously because he's non grata but like the Ovan and stuff like the manosphere isn't overtly political. The way that again this made up women is fear is. And then Candace Owens who yeah you can obviously pull lots of like damning because her whole thing is sleuthing.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

She was on the Ovon recently which I was Listening to because they're neighbors, apparently. Interesting. But. But yeah, her show is unwatchable because her whole thing is like, I've got the scoop. I know the truth about Justin Bieber. And then it's like a hour long video where because she's made it her whole brand to be like whistleblowing and stuff, of course she's going to end up lying and being super boring because she has to make content and she can't.

[Bobby]

Bridget Macron's a man.

[Anna]

Like it's all. Yeah, it's all this. Like she's doing the transvestigating. She's like.

[Bobby]

Like who. Who is the demographic for this? I don't apparently call other women ugly on the Internet.

[Anna]

She's coming for Brett Cooper.

[Bobby]

Trying to be like Elon's next baby mama.

[Anna]

I mean, I guess people consume a lot of content is the thing. But no one, like, they don't. No one is invested in Brett Cooper. No one cares about Kennes Owens. Everyone can see like her eyes. Like they're not. There's no parasocial. They. Yeah, they make the case that the conservative influence are particularly dangerous because of the parasocial dynamic. But no one is parasocial attachment to.

[Bobby]

Candace Owens or to EV magazine.

[Anna]

No. No one is reading Evie magazine has.

[Bobby]

Been like trying to divert attention to themselves for years now.

[Anna]

They're just so clearly Astroturf. They're so fake. And they're in addition to being fake, they're a flop because they're just aping the like aesthetic and tone of like Cosmo. It looks like Elle magazine. And then you look closely, it's like implants a false memory. Where EV magazines always. It's always been EV magazine. What are you talking about? You know, it's like. And it's, it would be so much, it would be so much more fresh and super fine for like an authentically right wing publication to have its own kind of. To do a new thing.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Not just like to talk about getting.

[Bobby]

Molested by your cousin.

[Anna]

Exactly. Not just pretend to be an old thing. But like, well, but like instead of. But for married women only. Like we're going to do Cosmo. But you better be in a Christian marriage. Like, no one wants that. Yeah, no one wants that. No one's reading that.

[Bobby]

No.

[Anna]

They can't. It's. Yeah.

[Bobby]

Like the Eevee magazine girl is the one who had that like viral, much discussed Twitter thread about her husband and how you have to marry someone who you're passionate about or whatever you should.

[Anna]

Yeah. You gotta be A gorgeous model.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

With a doting husband.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

It takes you on an elaborate vacation.

[Bobby]

Squirrels really do suffer from false consciousness because they're like, larping as trad wives, but are actually businesswomen.

[Anna]

Well, they can't even put the magazine out. Yeah.

[Bobby]

But their whole thing is like, hucking their husband into taking travel photos with them for viral content online.

[Anna]

My honeymoon's gonna go off. Oh, poor Riley. He is. I'm like, do you want to see my Pinterest board? And he'll like, dutifully, like, let his eyes, like, scan over it. I'm like, I bought some headscarves from Mango.

[Bobby]

You're like, can you take a photo of me flipping the bird to the Arch of Titus.

[Anna]

Arching my back in front of some ancient ruins?

[Bobby]

But get that like trad conservative segment of women's online media is just like very tedious and uninspiring.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Bobby]

Because women, by and large are not funny.

[Anna]

No. So they don't.

[Bobby]

And they're very literal. So they make everything, like, overtly political.

[Anna]

The article gets this when the. When they're citing like the Theo Vaughn's and like, like Andrew Tate does the. He's the most overt like, manosphere guy. But even he is, like, a lot of his stuff is about, like, gambling and, you know, men have a lot of other interests.

[Bobby]

Yeah. Lifting weights, shooting guns.

[Anna]

Women just have themselves.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And then extrapolate like their narcissism onto like politics.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

So it's not funny or interesting or related to anything besides, like, women. Once again, a feminist triumph. Yeah.

[Bobby]

It's just like a long winded, elaborate way of saying, like, pay attention to me because I'm hotter than you and also morally superior.

[Anna]

Yeah. Which so fertile I have.

[Bobby]

Yeah, exactly. It's like weird internecine dominance games about who's the most fertile. And then they're all like, childless somehow.

[Anna]

Or spiritually childless. Cuz.

[Bobby]

Yeah. They're like, I get my period on time, therefore I must be fertile.

[Anna]

You don't have to get it on time as long as you have extreme emotional highs and lows. You know, everything's real fertile.

[Bobby]

Women are like on Instagram making reels about diastasis recti, which is going to be my new identity.

[Anna]

What's diastasis?

[Bobby]

It's like this disgusting but very common condition that when you're pregnant, your abs split like the ab wall, and it creates all these problems. Like it gives you like a pregnancy pooch. It makes you like, incontinent. It makes.

[Anna]

Is it related to the pelvic floor.

[Bobby]

Yeah, exactly. And so you have to do like Pilates and Kegels to fix it, but you really can't. You can only manage it. And I just unlock this whole new world of like, women fitness influencers who have like five or six or seven kids, don't really look that good and are like letting their, like, stomach hang out and doing like 100 core work.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Bobby]

I mean, I was like, in the.

[Anna]

Spirit of Kanye, people do the prenatal Pilates.

[Bobby]

Yeah. Yoga, whatever. I was trying to laying in the.

[Anna]

Get ahead of it.

[Bobby]

And they were like, okay, you can self diagnose for this condition if you insert two fingers into your abs and they fit. And I was like putting my whole like David Cronenberg style. I was like fisting my.

[Anna]

It sounds Cronenbergian for sure. Yeah. That sounds awful.

[Bobby]

It's. It's like literally fine. Not painful at all. Manageable condition, but like, that's like the real fertility. It's not like some hot babe on Twitter who's like, strong arming her boyfriend to take pics of her on vacation.

[Anna]

Do you think ballerina forms has that?

[Bobby]

Good question.

[Anna]

She's had a lot of kids.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

But she's super healthy and strong from being Mormon and a ballerina.

[Bobby]

But it's weird because, like, the way the media functions now is that they don't describe a problem or a phenomenon. They try to invent it and it doesn't really. There's no such thing as the womanist fear.

[Anna]

No. It's like the women's movement. Like the Didian essay.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Where she says they tried to make a foster class consciousness.

[Bobby]

Yeah. Where she was like, oh, yeah. First they tried the working class, then they tried the minorities. They didn't take the bait. And then they realized they had this whole, like, prone.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Bobby]

Voting block of people who were willing to make it about themselves.

[Anna]

But it's the same and it's really simple. Like, whereas these people would have been more fringe and more and more fringe in the. Or didn't exist at all.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Because Peter Thiel didn't find it optimal to invest in a magazine at that time. Or like. Yeah. They wouldn't have had. They wouldn't have had the popular support to sustain themselves.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Because Trump derangement. There had not been a vibe shift yet, so called. But now obviously there's money to be made in people who foster like the, like, in the case of like the health influencer, you know, some quote, conservative sentiment because they don't want to be like, poisoned in Their environment, which I guess is like a Democrat thing.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Is to like castrate and sterilize and poison you. So anyone who doesn't want that is like de facto right wing.

[Bobby]

Yeah. Which is so funny because again, like, this is a very trite and beaten to death talking point. But like, the original people who were like environment whistleblowers were always leftists. The original, like corporate whistleblowers were always leftists. It was a very, like stock left wing cause to be suspicious of corporations, pharmaceuticals, that sort of thing.

[Anna]

But now the woke ideological capture of the last.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Four to eight years.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Has really shifted, you know, and now people are just. It's. The article doesn't even like. I mean. Yeah. It has this vaguely like, ooh, they're drawing you in.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Under being benign. But actually they're nefarious. But like, it's not even. Can't even go that hard. It was like the 4. What happened to the 4B movement?

[Bobby]

What was that again?

[Anna]

It was like the thing that started in Korea where they have a real gender war. Then after Trump, member women were saying, we're not going to date or have sex.

[Bobby]

We're going to withhold sex.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Bobby]

Because we're not really having any sex anyway.

[Anna]

And it was like a very female thing where it was like really one thing that was like split into four things where they're not dating or getting married or having sex or having kids. And it's like four distinct things that they are doing. But it's really just one thing. But no one's even doing that.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

That didn't come to pass. And now. Yeah. You'll see more like womanosphere. And then we just get lumped in. Because we are women, I guess.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Technically.

[Bobby]

But we're like somewhat prominent media voids.

[Anna]

Yeah. Who have like, organic kind of engagement. Don't say that, Tasha. Why?

[Bobby]

You're kicking the corner hornet's nest.

[Anna]

But we lend legitimacy.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

They invoke us to sort of like round out kind of. But really they're not talking about anything.

[Bobby]

We have nothing to do with anything.

[Anna]

And we're like, peripheral to it anyway.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

But it makes it seem like a more cohesive project. 2025.

[Bobby]

I've never told women to be thin or fertile or a Republican. I'm like, you should gain 600 and get a drug addiction.

[Anna]

Kill yourself. You should get top surgery. I mean, I think it's. You should be able to talk about how birth control is bad for you. I don't think that's an extremist.

[Bobby]

Thin and fertile and a Republican was preferable to being that sterile Democrat.

[Anna]

Yeah, I think that's an easy. Well, that's why it almost feel. That's why I'm, you know, like Candace Owens. I would stake my professional reputation. Her voice, for me, it's a voice. It's so like, it's. The GPA is too high. It's not relatable. But yeah, it's like that. This is just a. That ev magazine financed prior piece.

[Bobby]

Yeah, it's like a. Yeah. A puff piece that they exceeded.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Bobby]

So that they can get fake outraged about it.

[Anna]

Well, exactly. Because if the Guardian had real umbrage to take, they wouldn't use that frame. They would use something more sensational or, you know.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

They're not like. Well, maybe that's all just kind of fading away.

[Bobby]

And also, let's face it, these women are offensive and nefarious. Not because they're conservative, because they're uninspired. Yeah. Because they're. They have boring and stale ideas. I feel bad. Will Manaker actually said something smart years ago where he was like, the more exposure you get in the media, the more you self censor because you can already anticipate what your critics will say ahead of time. So I like, really try not to say anything that can also be used against me. Like, I really hate when people actually go online and call other people ugly and stupid.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Bobby]

And I will die on the Hill. Like, to my credit, I have never used the U word to refer to anyone.

[Anna]

Maybe not on Twitter, but certainly on this show.

[Bobby]

I don't think I've ever said so. And so is ugly.

[Anna]

Okay.

[Bobby]

In such harsh and concrete. That was like my original beef with, like, Charles Carroll roasting Bella Ramsay or whatever. But, like, like, it's hard for me to like, run up on this podcast and be like, yeah, these women are dull and uninspired.

[Anna]

Bankman Freed. Scandal Girl was ugly. I feel like we.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Discussed that. I've always thought this is very, you know, nonpartisan of me. Sarah Huckabee Sanders.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Absolute monster. Extremely ugly lady.

[Bobby]

Yeah. Not the best.

[Anna]

I mean, it's not. I think it's like, it's akin to being fat where it's like sometimes you just sort of. You're ugly and it doesn't mean you should be, you know, in a freak show or anything like that or, you know, relegated to the. No, obviously you can enjoy, like, prominence and success even as an ugly person, but people can notice.

[Bobby]

I mean, I like ugly people who make it against all Odds same. They're really cool and worthy of respect.

[Anna]

Yeah, they don't have the advantages and.

[Bobby]

I like people who I was talking about this. They don't have like hand because Adam Ler posted like a side by side of Mickey Rourke when he was young and handsome versus when he was like old and busted.

[Anna]

That's who that was. Huh.

[Bobby]

And I guess I saw those pics. But yeah.

[Anna]

Don't know him well.

[Bobby]

I guess he had like a motorcycle accident and had to get plastic surgery to reconstruct his face. Who knows? It's like Bob Dylan lying about his motorcycle accident. I don't know. Famous people are like famously unreliable narrators. But yeah, I, I have respect for like Michelle Welbeck and Serge Gainsbourg and these guys who really like don't take care of themselves.

[Anna]

Gerard Depardieu has a good look to him, but he looks like he would have the tr. The side by side would make a lot of sense because he wasn't like strikingly. He had a charm.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

In his youth, but he was like.

[Bobby]

The original Bella Ramsey.

[Anna]

It wasn't like Elaine Delon looks like a freak now.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

You know.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Jar Jeopard always had a freakish.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Klaus Kinski esque.

[Bobby]

But basically these girls worst crime is not that they're right wing, it's that they're unfunny.

[Anna]

They're boring.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Candace Owens boring.

[Bobby]

Yeah. Candace at least has kind of a pulse.

[Anna]

No, she's energetic.

[Bobby]

She's like a fish and a trickster and she has a personality. It's actually like I, I wouldn't mind if she pulled back from the conspiracy and transvestigation content.

[Anna]

Well that makes me feel like she doesn't have. She can't just like she can't do what like Fuentes or Alex Jones do. Or they are able to get on a stream and like free associate and like whole people's attention. So she always has to be like. And stay tuned because I'm about to tell you something that I know and like. And then you like. I can't sustain interest that long. I can't imagine women generally don't have that talent.

[Bobby]

That's just not a talent that women are known for. You actually have that talent. You're like the rare woman that does who can kind of like free associate and improvise. But generally like most of us women, even the ones who are like brave or humorous or whatever are basically much more literal minded than your average man. Like that's just something I noticed. That's not even A critique. It's just like kind of a fact of life.

[Anna]

Yeah. I wish it wasn't the case. I wish we had a better womanisphere.

[Bobby]

It just is. And like, do we really need a womanosphere considering that like the Internet is basically woman centric now. It is like a long house.

[Anna]

Yeah. And there doesn't need. Whatever Turning Point USA has is funneling money into.

[Bobby]

What is Turning Point usa?

[Anna]

It's like a conservative think tank.

[Bobby]

Okay.

[Anna]

That is bankrolling apparently some influencers who. Most of which will not be successful.

[Bobby]

Eventually because they're being bankrolled.

[Anna]

Exactly. They don't have the fight in them. It's like a tautology to make it.

[Bobby]

I asked that like zoomer guy who was seated at our table at the New Criterion Gala what a think tank was because he was working for one. I actually don't. It's like a term I take for granted. I'm like, it's a tank where they do a lot of thinking. Yeah, it's like fish tank, but. And he was like, oh, well, they're just basically like huge money laundering schemes.

[Anna]

Yeah, big time. I. I worked out of college at a think tank for reproductive justice and I did jack shit. I wrote fucking memos all day that no one read. You know, just went on the computer and had like vague tasks and was like sometimes compiling a list of other people in the think tank or I was a research assistant and Yeah, I.

[Bobby]

Was just like a glorified intern.

[Anna]

Nothing. Yeah, absolutely nothing useful. The whole thing was. Seems fruitless.

[Bobby]

Yeah. They also just put on a bunch of like fake events and galas to raise money for their random laundering. Yeah. Did you see Glenn Greenwald and Chris Rufo fighting?

[Anna]

I did, but I couldn't. Yeah, I agree with Glenn. Probably same.

[Bobby]

But I think like, okay, like, message that these, this womanisphere is supposedly putting out, that you should be thin and fertile and Republican. That's not the worst message. It's actually pretty correct.

[Anna]

Well, I think that it's just that.

[Bobby]

People can sense that their motivations for promoting that type of message are false, which is not.

[Anna]

Yeah. Would be the real kind of like damning perspective of an article of this sort to take. But once again, it's really just like paying lip service to a manufactured phenomenon.

[Bobby]

Yeah, it just, it reminded me of that article we discussed on the last one about like Kajuda and Hanania and Pedro and how they like instantly flip flopped on their like earnestly and deeply held convictions, which they never had in the first place because ultimately they were in it for themselves, and they're like, professional and personal fulfillment, enrichment, whatever you want to call it. And, like, that's fine. I don't really blame anybody for, you know, trying to make a buck or whatever.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Bobby]

But people can sense that the Met. Like, people are not. And they can sense that the message is, like, hollow and disingenuous because they. They don't really mean what they say.

[Anna]

They're trying to read EV Magazine.

[Bobby]

Yeah. To, like, up their subscribers.

[Anna]

Which are not. I mean, I'm pretty loose with the. Like, if there's a paywall and there's something. I really, you know, I'm easy to hook.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

I'm gullible and I will be like, whatever. Like, it. You know, I'm paying for the wall. I still. I pay for the Wall Street Journal. Like, I pay for all sorts. You know, I'm like. I'm like, oh, it. I'll re. What does it say? But not once have I, like, clicked on or engaged with any EV content where I was like, I gotta know, what information do they have?

[Bobby]

They could write a whole article about how we're, like, ugly, infertile, narcissistic voids who've hit the wall, and I still wouldn't click on that.

[Anna]

That's my favorite kind of article to read. I feel insulted to be included in the tableau.

[Bobby]

Like, weird and annoying. But, like, in the spirit of the new Twitter where everything feels dead, I also, like, didn't really care.

[Anna]

I wasn't. It took me a while to get around to reading it. You didn't even.

[Bobby]

2019. I didn't read it. No. Eli sent it to me, which is cute, I guess.

[Anna]

I. I guess I saw it on the tl. Nice pick of us, at least.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Screenshot.

[Bobby]

Yep.

[Anna]

Was talking about woke cr, but, yeah, don't bother reading it because it's not about us. Stay tuned for. Maybe someone will write some articles in which we're more of a focal point. So some dead end magazine. I just really can't stand the way it looks like Elle. And it's the same font and number of letters and does not. A complete lack of vision. Yeah, the humorlessness.

[Bobby]

I don't even know what it looks like, honestly.

[Anna]

I bet. And the thing is.

[Bobby]

Pink font.

[Anna]

No, it looks exactly like L. I mean, they've only had. They only have three issues, so.

[Bobby]

Yeah, but it's white.

[Anna]

At least in the ones that I've seen.

[Bobby]

Because also, the most humanizing thing about them is that they're women, so they can't be bothered to get their together and like release content on time.

[Anna]

But the thing is I also. It's been so long since I've read Cosmo. Obviously.

[Bobby]

Yeah. But somehow exists.

[Anna]

Yeah. I feel like it's in the airports and maybe I'll pick one up next time I'm traveling and what are they. But I feel like that's the thing is I feel like in Cosmo they probably are publishing articles that are maybe not like because Teal also funded like a menstrual tracking app that Evie pushes that their whole thing is, you know, their anti birth control stance is like wrapped up in like shilling for a product that you can get to like recover from birth control. Blah, blah, blah.

[Bobby]

Why doesn't Veronica write for Evie?

[Anna]

Sure she could, but I bet Cosmos like not. I never had the impression that Cosmo was like for libtards. I thought it was just like for sluts.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And like brain dead women in the.

[Bobby]

Late 90s, early 2000s, it was really like how to wax your and blow job tips to please your man.

[Anna]

And that's like what Evie does. But like. But it was part of that whole city. Exactly. And Evie magazine allegedly is doing a similar thing, but like asterisk, like if you're married.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

But like the same basic content.

[Bobby]

Yeah. And it was like really bad tips.

[Anna]

Here's a quote from the article from Jesse Marie Baumgartner, a 41 year old former EV freelancer. Got the feeling they got. Not a lot of staff writers over there. I think it's primarily freelancers we should get embedded at. Evie self identified, quote, conservative Pagan, mother of five based outside St. Louis, Missouri, said that though she had written for other right wing outlets before Evie, she was attracted to, quote, being able to write specifically about women's issues like breastfeeding, home birth and homeschooling. She was turned off by what she saw as an obsession with sex in mainstream women's magazines. Quoting her, they started writing articles about younger and younger sex with younger and younger underage miners. And that was when I was like, ew, what's happening here? Oh, so you got older and you.

[Bobby]

Didn'T want to hear about young people.

[Anna]

Having sex anymore, so you went over to EV magazine trying pedal some of your perimenopausal ideas, people of being too obsessed with sex. Oh yeah. I used to like when the women's magazine read about having a tight pussy. But as my loosened up over the years, yeah, I just couldn't read Seventeen magazine anymore once my pussy wasn't so Wet with age.

[Bobby]

Now she's like Naomi Watts, like peddling like wet drugs.

[Anna]

She apparently had a very early menopause. I really feel for her.

[Bobby]

Well, she had five kids. Whatever.

[Anna]

Is that true you just said? No, I mean Naomi Watts.

[Bobby]

Oh, no. That's sad.

[Anna]

That's why she became a. I mean there's obviously financial incentive for her because she sells products. But I think her destigmatizing menopause is really. I think she was like in her 30s.

[Bobby]

I love when that happens when you're like personal interests dovetail with your social cause.

[Anna]

And also. Yeah. I bet there's advantages to having like the physical strength of being relatively young. Though of course you don't want to hit menopause that young.

[Bobby]

But like not to be a pig. She looks amazing. Naomi Watts.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Bobby]

She looks skinnier than ever.

[Anna]

Had she hit menopause later, she maybe wouldn't have had the strength to maintain.

[Bobby]

Wait, what?

[Anna]

Like she would be like in her.

[Bobby]

50S, old and downtrodden.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Bobby]

Could not herself to look smacking.

[Anna]

Yeah. Whereas you have menopause in your 30s and you have more, you know, control, I feel like over what happens.

[Bobby]

Yeah. Whereas I mean could the early menopause be triggered by her lifelong low grade eating disorder? Possibly.

[Anna]

Well, Candace Owens is gonna have to make an hour long YouTube video about.

[Bobby]

How Naomi Watts is actually a man.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Bobby]

Who transed her kids who never even had menopause.

[Anna]

And they were all named Jean Pierre. Jean Pierre Macron. Where is he now you list. Stay tuned. That was an eight part. That was eight hours of transvestigating she did.

[Bobby]

Yeah. No one could who boring inside baseball content.

[Anna]

I when we did I tried nobody else because I tried to watch the very last installment because I was like, yeah, miss me with that. Just hit give it to me straight. And yeah. The what I could make it through of. She's like, you're gonna want to go back.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

You're not going to be able to keep up. I've. I've woven a tangled web. And you're going to want to watch parts one through seven to really get to the bottom of how Brigim's a man. Which if there Bridget Mc there would be a smoking gun.

[Bobby]

Yeah. And like, like who's the audience for this? It's like moderately conservative like mainline boomers who are like libs at heart and love to see like a young bright black girl winning.

[Anna]

I can't imagine we'd love to have.

[Bobby]

Her as a daughter in law.

[Anna]

I really don't know who would be enticed but again, I think people watch. I underestimate how much people just consume stuff. Which makes EB magazine's relative failure, really as a publication even more notable because it's like people will kind of read anything and they're not going to read this. Yeah, More people are reading.

[Bobby]

So many people were like texting me, DMing me. And we're like, you guys have to cover the Douglas Murray Dave Smith debate on Rogan. Nah, dog. I've never been able to sit through an entire Rogan episode unless a man is literally holding me down.

[Anna]

Unless you're on a road trip.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Bobby]

And it's not because I don't like Joe Rogan. Like, he's fine. I like what he's doing on the whole.

[Anna]

He's like, I'm like, that what? Stillman Metropolitan meme where I get my news from Nick Fuentes. That way I already know what to think about the news and I don't have to read the source material. But I know he thinks Dave Smith is like a limited hangout, controlled op situation that they're trying to reign in. They're trying to allow for a permissible amount of anti Semitic ideas so they can ultimately hold the reins on like, how much, you know.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

You can say, like, maybe, maybe the Holocaust does tad bit overblown, a little bit astro, but don't ask why. Yeah, but then you don't ask more questions than that because you already got. We'll give you a little. And you don't get anymore.

[Bobby]

Did you see that clip of Alex Jones interrupting Fuentes and Owen Troyer?

[Anna]

No.

[Bobby]

He like swooped in there and was like, guys, come on.

[Anna]

Like, are they debating?

[Bobby]

No, I think they were just talking about the Jews. And I was like, I know we're not Judeo Christian here, we're just Christian. But, like, why are we hating these 2000 year old people? He was being actually such a nice and sympathetic liberal.

[Anna]

But yeah, when he had Kanye two years ago, he was like, who? Yeah, when Kanye was like my in the early stages of nitrous psychosis and only starting to say that he loved Hitler and stuff.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

John's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. We're gonna go to commercial break.

[Bobby]

It's crazy, like, how nice and sweet he is. Alex Jones and how he has this like, outsized reputation for being like, mean and bitter and he's like, neither of those things. He's just exhausting.

[Anna]

He just chaotic.

[Bobby]

Yeah. And like, but I thought Fuentes's remarks on Kanye's cousin dick sucking were also Very well. They are best nice and humanizing.

[Anna]

I don't think he would extend that kind of empathy towards an op, but he's obviously a big. They're both from Chicago.

[Bobby]

Oh, yeah.

[Anna]

They are good friends, as we know. So I don't think he. Kanye could do anything that would cause Fuentes to turn on him, much like, I also am really riding with guy who. He's done it again.

[Bobby]

There's very little that he can do to. Especially if you're like Fuentes at the end of the day is, you know, as much as we make fun of him for being gay and Mexican, he's a white guy. And white guys love the black guys, the brothers, who are their friends and allies. It makes them feel, like, proud.

[Anna]

Well, especially Kanye west, though. I know. Yeah. We discussed earlier the taboo of ghetto incest, but Kanye really wasn't that ghetto.

[Bobby]

No, that's the thing.

[Anna]

He was like.

[Bobby]

He was talking about his upbringing, about how like he grew up, like, kind of in the hood, but they always had books in the home. It was kind of like poor and dysfunctional, but like, ultimately not that bad because his mother was the chair of the English department at Uchicago or something like that.

[Anna]

Even if she had some gay porno magazines that ruined his life.

[Bobby]

But that's actually why he's a successful rap mogul.

[Anna]

In part.

[Bobby]

Yeah. I mean, this is.

[Anna]

You can't hear, like, none of these.

[Bobby]

Rap guys are actually like Big Sean.

[Anna]

At a 4.0 GPA. Yeah.

[Bobby]

Hood dudes.

[Anna]

I mean, I really don't know.

[Bobby]

They had to be like, alienated from their community to some extent to be creative. To be creative. To do any noticing. Like, obviously that's true. I mean, I've said this before, but like, you know, like Lil Wayne, Prodigy from Mobb Deep. Like, these guys were in like magnet classes in school when Biggie was murdered. His mom, who's like this like very hard working, conservative West Indian woman, went on the record to say, like, I really didn't like when he rapped about how we didn't have food on the table or gifts for Christmas because I made sure to provide for my kids.

[Anna]

Immigrant parents hate that. They don't. Yeah, yeah. No, it brings great shame to your.

[Bobby]

Immigrant family to brag about, to talk about being like a poor criminal in the ghetto.

[Anna]

Totally. I mean, there's probably, you know, I'm not the hip hop historian here, but I know that there probably are some, you know, like in the NBA.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Some people had a rougher go of it and some people were selected for their talent early on and tracked into a successful avenue. Yeah, but some people beat the odds.

[Bobby]

Well, the NBA is now.

[Anna]

Did make it out there.

[Bobby]

Go Slav supremacy.

[Anna]

Which is, you know, a rough. Is a rough place to be. Is a kind of a big ghetto.

[Bobby]

It is. Yeah.

[Anna]

The Serbs, you know, probably they came from very recent.

[Bobby]

They're like white boy summer. And it's like. No, actually, like, people from the Balkans are kind of black.

[Anna]

They're like blacker than black. They're like. They don't. They have less generational wealth than African Americans. That's true. No, probably because it was. I mean, not every. You know, but like the total destruction of that part of the world in the mid-90s.

[Bobby]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Once, you know, there was all very, you know, black people came over here with nothing.

[Bobby]

Their dads are like physicists and neurologists and they're like driving a cab in Chicongo.

[Anna]

But they're freakishly tall and very athletic for whites.

[Bobby]

Aren't they, like the tallest population or something?

[Anna]

They're up there. I think Nicola maybe told me that he was quotes. But I'm sure the same is true of Serbs due to them being basically indistinguishable. Yeah, but. Yeah, that they were the most, like, athletic population in brute numbers or something. Something like that. I wasn't. Listen, Ra.