Interviewer (1:29)

Visit t mobile.com my guest today is Dave Smith. If you don't know him, I don't know what you do online because he's a popular dude. He's a standup comedian, a writer and a political commentator. Best known for really holding his own on the anti war stance.

Dave Smith (1:43)

I could.

Interviewer (1:45)

I thought about labeling you as a libertarian, but I'm really trying to get away from those labels because it might be the thing that is the most destructive. So Dave Smith, thank you for joining me. What do you think about that? Do you want to wear that label or do you want to wear no labels? We're going to talk about sanity online today.

Dave Smith (2:04)

Well, I, you know, with. I will. I will certainly agree. Well, thank you for having me. First of all. But I will agree that labels can be problematic, but I do. I essentially think that Ron Paul is the greatest living American hero and the Thomas Jefferson of our time, and he used the label libertarian, so I'm quite comfortable using the same one he did. Um, but, yeah, you know, I. Yes, in. In general, I do. I hold liberty as the highest political value. I think that's just kind of in line with Americanism. But I think that, yeah, I think governments are instruments of force and tyranny and destruction, generally speaking.

Interviewer (2:42)

My problem with using these kinds of labels is that it sets people up with an expectation like, okay, I'm going to hear this. And then those expectations have proven to be quite damaging during the second Trump administration, because I think people thought that MAGA stood for one thing, and then we see this faction and they don't understand each other. Democrats hold the line. They just don't criticize their own politicians. And so now I don't know exactly what to do with these things. And I'm realizing more and more that these partisan divides are artificial and destructive, and it prevents us from being able to take things issue by issue. How do you feel about that?

Dave Smith (3:23)

Oh, well, I agree with you. When it comes to partizanship, I mean, I think that there's, you know, like. Like. Like there is a Libertarian Party, the political party, but I'm more talking like little. L. Just what are your principles? What do you believe in? I think that what a lot of people have been waking up to for quite a while is, is that. And look, obviously things are a little bit different with Donald Trump. He's a very unique political figure that is just not unlike any other presidential candidate or president that we've had in American history. He's the only candidate with no political or military experience to be President of the United States of America. And he kind of only rose up because the American people were so disgusted at the establishment and how D.C. had just mismanaged everything. And I think what a lot of people have kind of have woke. Have woken up to realize is that, you know, there really wasn't that much difference between Mitt Romney and Barack Obama, and there really wasn't that much difference between George W. Bush and Hillary Clinton. I mean, when it comes down to, like, any of the major issues. Where were they on the war in Iraq? Exactly the same. Where were they on the war in Afghanistan? Exactly the same. Where were they on the Wall street bailout? Exactly the same. Where are they on this monetary policy? Yeah, they had some disagree, like one group thought the top marginal tax rate should be 39%, and the other one thought it should be 36%. But really it is not that much different. And I think that one of the problems with partisanship is that people get into this, like, team sport thing, and then they miss the fact that there is. We have two parties in this country that are essentially one party when it comes to war, when it comes to the Federal Reserve, when it comes to the CIA, when it, like, when it comes to the giant regulatory state, they're all one in the same. And so what people miss, I think when they, you know, go like, I'm on team Democrat or team Republican, I hate the other half of the country, is that. Actually, I think, like, I think the George Carlin model is, is much more appropriate. It's a big club, and you ain't in it.

Interviewer (5:28)

Yeah, exactly. I think that, you know, maybe during the election last year, it was, are you against Kamala Harris or aren't you? And people who were against Kamala Harris, I think for very valid reasons, felt like they were on the same team. And then Republicans got in power and they realized, oh, that team is fractured. And so what I see you doing with people who maybe thought that because you were critical of Kamala Harris, that you would not speak out against the wars that have continued under Trump, you just take a lot of arrows. And I want to ask you how you do that and what is your guiding principle when you, when you're dumped on like that?

Dave Smith (6:15)

Well, I guess I, you know, and part of this might just be my personality type, but I just, I don't mind it. And I, I made my peace with it a long time ago. And I think there's something, you know, I've been doing stand up comedy for 20, almost 20 years. Started in 2006. And, like, you come, you come to the realization pretty quick that, like, not everybody's gonna laugh at every joke. Not every set is gonna go great. Not. And that's okay. And like, some, you know what I mean? Like, it's. Not everybody's gonna agree with me. I put myself out there as a public figure. I can, you know, people can criticize me to me. I, I, you know, I have, like, you know what, what balances me out. I have a really amazing wife and two beautiful little children. And, like, that's what actually matters to me is how, like, their opinion of me and my real life, that. But I, I feel like, and particularly, maybe this is a little bit sexist of me, but particularly because I have a Son, I feel that I. I have to tell the truth as I see it, and that, you know, everything I'm doing is on record and he could see it one day. So, like, if you're going to tell me that I had a platform with hundreds of thousands of people listening to it, or I go on shows with millions of people listening to it, and I wasn't going to say anything. When Donald Trump launches a war of aggression, a war of choice on behalf of a foreign country, totally unnecessary against a country that poses no threat to the United States of America. Well, I'm going to not say anything because I think Kamala Harris's platform was insane. Sorry, that's just like, that's not what I think being a man is about. And so I'm going to tell the truth as I see it. I'm not, you know, it's like I remember I was. Cause I kind of. I'm like a millennial or I think I was born in 83, so whatever that makes me. But I feel like my generation was like the last generation that, you know, like I was forced to play outside when I was a kid. Like on the weekends, my mom and my stepdad would be like, get out of the house. You have to leave. You just dealt with the other kids, like. And I remember figuring out at 6 years old, 6 years old, I was getting bullied by the 12 year olds on my block. And. And I learned to stand up to them. And like, nothing is more intimidating to a 6 year old than a 12 year old. I mean, it's just, they're like humongous to you at that, you know, And I don't know. That was scary. Where you're telling me some people on Twitter are going to say stuff like, I'm 42. I'm going to be intimidated by the fact that someone on Twitter is going to call me a mean name or something like that. I don't care. And I got a lot of people who support me, so I'm very lucky. I get to. I have a career that I genuinely love. I get paid handsomely for it. And I got a lot of people who support me. If the price tag for that is some other people are upset, I'm quite comfortable with that exchange.

Interviewer (9:06)

Right. Something that, you know, I can sort of get myself worked up on X. And I see these things and I'm like, it's not like that. Why we have to think like this, you know? And then I read a quote over the weekend by Antonin Scalias. He said, Something to the effect of, don't be afraid to stand out, but don't revel in it. Because he liked joining the majority of opinion. He just was not afraid to. To write a dissent. And I thought, okay, that's a really good guiding principle, because you can see yourself as a contrarian, and that becomes your identity, and then you're pissed all the time, and then you're looking for ways to be a contrarian, and that's not good either. How do you feel about that? Or maybe that's just for me.

Dave Smith (9:45)

I completely agree. I've never heard that quote before, but there's a lot of wisdom to that. And I think that I certainly. I certainly have a bit of a contrarian spirit. Like, I've noticed that in myself before, where I do. And. But you don't want to do it just for the sake of being contrarian. Like, I remember, like, even just little things, I remember thinking, like, this is just. And part of this, I guess, is being a comedian also. It's just, like, the way my brain works. But I remember at the beginning of COVID the very, very beginning of it, like, it was like, the first week of lockdowns, and they would have these videos of people who, like, went to the hospital with COVID and then they were leaving the hospital, and people were giving them, like, a round of applause for beating. And I remember my first thought was just like, that's really insulting to the guy who's got leukemia. Like, you know what I mean? Like, he just doesn't. He just doesn't have the thing of the day. And so we're not going to apply. But then I will catch myself and go, all right, I'm just being a contrarian for no sake. Like, whatever. They're just being nice and clapping for someone. So I. I do have that spirit in me, and I do. I try to do my best to, like, guard against, like, just being unnecessarily contrarian, just going against the flow for the sake of it, which is. That's something to be concerned with.

VRBO Announcer (10:54)

Yeah.

Interviewer (10:54)

I find myself getting swept up in certain sentiments, and then I'm kind of like, wait, do I really stand for that?

Dave Smith (11:00)

Or.

Interviewer (11:00)

It's just. This is the strong sentiment online right now. Like, we're filming this in the middle of December right now. There's a lot of, you know, Candace Owens is the worst. She's a crazy bitch. You know, that kind of stuff. Erica Kirk is the worst. She's crazy. And I'm like, I don't know. This is an Emotional manipulation. This is coming from people I don't even follow. That's in my for you feed. And I know I felt a strong way when something happens, it's like, you know, like, after 9 11, with all the flags we put up, like, okay, this is the sentiment. This is the group sentiment that makes us feel better. Let's do that. And then we lost so many rights in the wake of 9 11. And so, you know, I have set a New Year's resolution to not ride the emotional wave every day based on the major story and pull myself back from that. But does, you know, we need to build audiences, we need to engage. What do you think is our guiding principle for that? How can we all sort of not be those flag wavers every. Every damn day?

Dave Smith (12:06)

Yeah, well, I think. Look, I mean, I really do think, like. Like, balance is very important in life. I know for me, like, I. I've always found that, or at least for, you know, the last few years here, because I got. I have little kids. And one of the. One of the best things about having little kids is that there's not too much, like, mystery to where the priorities in your life are. Like, it's very obvious. You're like, I'm down on the floor playing with blocks. Like, that's really what I'm supposed to do here. And then I got to clean everything up. And then he needs a bath, and she needs to read her book, and she, you know, like, there's just things to be done. And.

Interviewer (12:43)

And.

Dave Smith (12:44)

But I. My thing is always like, you know, put the phone away. Go be. Go do family time. Like, compartmentalize it. Like, that's work. And then this is my actual life. This is the reason I work, is for this. So that's, to me, I think what helps me, you know, But I think everyone's got to figure that out for themselves. I mean, I don't. Like, I don't meditate and I don't have, you know, and I know a lot of other people benefit a lot from stuff like that, but I do think that, like, there's just. We're living in a time where really. And I don't think I'm being hyperbolic at all when I say this, that the nation is in a very dangerous position and we're spinning out of control on a lot of fronts. Our national cohesiveness is the worst it's ever been in my lifetime. We are $38 trillion in debt. We're expanded militarily all around the globe, involved in every conflict. We're devaluing our own currency because we have government that we can't afford. There's a lot of major, major problems. And so we have to find a way where we don't let up on any of those problems, but we also don't drive ourselves crazy in the process. Right. Balance to strike.

Interviewer (13:55)

Well, the week that we're filming this right now, yes, there's this major conversation of Candace Owens, Erica Kirk. Right. Which I think is important and I have my opinions on, but I don't want to sort of ride an emotional wave without hearing everything out. But at the same time, the Justice Department has decided that domestic terrorism is a thing and that people who advocate overthrow of the government are terrorists. That's terrifying. And we're busy not seeing it. Now there's a new visa requirement for immigrants to hand over five years of social media if you want to come to the US As a visitor. That's terrifying. This is all Big Brother stuff happening right now. And so it does feel like chaos. How do we scream about the right things right now when there's such stupid distraction? And the death of Charlie Kirk is not stupid. But, you know, ringing in on his widow I don't think is going to stop. And so I, I'm really upset that we do see in the wake of the Charlie Kirk assassination, in the wake of, you know, this idea of rising anti. Semitism that we're gonna see continually our rights eroded. And I don't know what the path is to make that stop. Who's gonna sue the Justice Department for the fact that there, there's no such thing as domestic terrorists? What do we do about that?

Dave Smith (15:18)

Well, how about. I mean, couldn't you. Isn't it something right just in the United States of America to. I mean, our founding document is the Declaration of Independence, which very clearly says at the very beginning of it that we. It's the most beautiful document ever because it says the opening doesn't even make an argument. It just says it's self evident that there's a God and that he wants us to be free, which I love. I love not even having. Not even pretending that that needs to be argued. We take it as self evident that God wants us to be free. And governments, they're just this institution that man creates to protect our freedom. And if they're not protecting our freedom or if they're tyrannical, then we have the right and the duty to overthrow that government and replace it with a new one. So the idea that the government that was created by that document could then ever try to say that like the overthrowing your own government is some type of like just a moral sin on its face, by definition is crazy. That was the whole spirit of the country, was that you overthrow a tyrannical government. And you know, as far as the stuff you said, you know, look like, I don't, I don't know Erica. I've never met her. I did know Charlie and I would have considered him a friend. And I do know Candace and she's a good friend. And like, so it's a little bit of a weird situation because, geez, I mean, would I ever want to say anything critical about my friend who just died, about his widow who's raising his two kids alone? I mean, that just feels like. I don't want to say nothing bad about her. But then at the same time there does become this thing where like, okay, if you, if you jump in the spotlight after this horrible tragedy where your husband and the father of your children is killed and you go, you know, you give a eulogy at the funeral or something like that, like, that to me is like a hands off. That doesn't put you as like a public person. But if you're going to take over Turning points and now it's like weeks and weeks and weeks later and you're out on camera leading a thing, you kind of are now in a realm where like, you're a public person, we have to be allowed to say whether we agree with you or disagree with you. And it's just a very uncomfortable thing, I'll say at the very least. And I have not, you know, I just, I, you know, I'm so busy with the shows that I, that I do and the topics that I focus on, and I always try to focus on the things that I think are the biggest, most important crises that the country is facing. So I have not watched every Candace Owens episode and I have not. Like, I'm not up on all of her, like, what her theory is on Charlie's assassination. What I will say is that I know that Candace Owens and Candace Owens alone revealed something truly remarkable. I'm not saying this has any implications as to who killed Charlie Kirk, but the fact is that the Zionists and the Prime Minister of Israel all lied through their teeth about Charlie Kirk in the immediate wake of the highest profile political assassination of my lifetime. And during an active murder investigation. They were lying. Josh Hammer went out there and said that the, the, the rumors that Charlie was turning on Israel were an anti Semitic conspiracy theory. Then Candace Owens revealed that he texted that to Josh Hammer. Like, I'm sorry, to me, that's really wild. Benjamin Netanyahu read a couple letter, lines from that letter that Charlie Kirk, like, immediately after his death. And he omitted the fact that the entire letter was Charlie Kirk going, sir, we're getting killed out here. You have to totally rethink. You're losing. So, like, just that alone, Candace Owens got us that information, and that's, like, very important, vital information. So has she. You know, I kind of look at Candace Owens like she's like a pit bull, and she's going to grab a thing and just wring it until whatever falls out, falls out. Has she ever grabbed a hold of a thing where. Not fell out, probably, but she's also.

Interviewer (19:15)

Grabbed a hold of things where we all have.

Dave Smith (19:17)

Yeah, right, right. But, like, you know, so I just. I look at that and I go, I don't think it's. It's. Look, if Erica Kirk is coming out and telling me, trust our judicial system, trust our government, then respectfully, with all respect and admiration to your late husband. No, sorry, that's not what we do around these parts. Like, I'm not trusting that I'm supposed to trust the Justice Department that just got caught with their pants down, straight up, saying that the Epstein files didn't exist and they were a democratic hoax, and then they voted to release said files. Yeah, sorry, you've blown your. Your trust for me, at least.

Interviewer (20:00)

Yeah. I mean, as a married person, you think if you were widowed and then the government narrative was so full of. So thin. First of all, if you read the indictment of Tyler Robinson, it's extremely thin. People are saying online, well, he confessed that he did not confess. His parents took him in because he was a known suspect. Right. Because they thought he looked like. The document is very thin. The government has not made its case. Tyler Robinson is afforded presumptive innocence by our Constitution. And so, you know, I think that as a married person obsessed with every little, you know, turn and question doesn't even cover it. I would be obsessed with, like, I don't think they, you know, and so this, like, no, they got it. They got it. It just doesn't comport, you know, sort of mother to mother, wife to wife. I don't know what to think about that. I know that I will commit to never say no to somebody's questions, even if I don't like that person. And I. I do quite like Candace Owens, so I'll reveal that bias, but never am I going to say, don't Ask that question. Right?

Dave Smith (21:15)

And so that's. That's right. And I also do think that there's just, like. I mean, I don't know. I'm not enough of, like, a religious expert to know this, but isn't there, like. Like, in Catholicism, I think, like, the Pope. If the Pope says something pertaining to religion, then he is an authority over Catholics. But if he says something about football or whatever, that has nothing. No Catholic has to follow that. You know what I mean? Like, there's the different kind of, like, lanes. And I do feel, too, like, if I could imagine, like, if I got murdered tomorrow, and like, I think if my wife came out and won, like, she represents me in the sense that she's my better half. She's the mother of my children. She's. Anything that she were to say about, like, who I was as a person or what our home life was or anything like that. Like, she's the authority on that. But if my wife came out and told my audience, you know, okay, you got to support Trump in bombing boats in Venezuela or something, I think my audience would be like, whoa, like, who are you? You don't have the authority in that lane. Like, you don't. It's just, like, kind of a different thing. And so once you. Once you step into that, like, Charlie's the one. We respected. We respected his opinion on this stuff. We respect, like, this is a whole different thing. And so I don't, like. No, now you're getting into a political conversation, and I don't have to treat you the same as I do where, like. Like, you get to say who Charlie was as a man. I. I don't get to comment on that. You were his wife. You don't get to tell me how I feel about the Justice Department. These are different lanes.

Interviewer (22:41)

Yes. Yeah, exactly. It's funny because I was like, let's not get distracted by that. But we did, because it's an important part of the conversation. And. And because I am, you know, always trying to say something rational. I don't know. You know, there's part of me as a former liberal that's just afraid to say stuff like, I don't want to get dogpiled as an anti Semite. I don't want to, you know, get, like. I guess they really brainwash you. If you were a liberal before, you're like, ooh, I don't want to. I don't want to be caught saying that. You know, even if I had sort of, like I said, rode an emotional wave of something Big online, put a. I never put a Ukrainian flag in my. That kind of thing. You know what I mean? Did I do that then? You know, can I ever live it down? It's so dumb. Like, I'm.

Dave Smith (23:30)

Well, I think confessing that. But there's something to that point. And I, you know, I know this too, as, as a former liberal. It was a while ago, but I was a liberal at one point in my life. And I think that there is. There's something where governments are. They're very good at manipulating some of the best qualities in people and then turning them into bad results. And so, you know, given the, Given the history of the world, given the history of America, it's not unreasonable that liberals developed over the years like an allergy to bigotry and that the story was like, hey, look, we used to have slavery and segregation, and that was wrong, and we reject that now. And we say, hey, you can't treat people like that because, like, they're people too. And taking, you know, lessons of the Holocaust or something like that and being concerned about anti Semitism, like, that's totally legitimate. But then they channel that into supporting a genocide in, you know, Gaza or something like that. And you're like, whoa, like, how? And it does remind me. It's almost like a weird parallel to like, there's something like, if being anti racist is in the liberal DNA, well, then in the, in the conservative DNA is like defending the country and the Constitution and be, you know, sticking up for the little. And you'd see in the aftermath of 9, 11, they took that impulse and then they turned that into invading poor countries that had nothing to do with us and slaughtering people by the hundreds of thousands. It's like, yeah, they really play on these decent impulses of people. So, like, it's, again, it's not bad to have an impulse of being like, I don't want to be like a Jew hater. I don't want to be a hater of black people or something. I don't know. I know lots of wonderful Jewish people and black people. I don't want them to think that I, like, hate who they are. But then right here in the very real world, we have a foreign government who is committing a debatable genocide. I mean, there's like dozens of genocide scholars who have written claiming this is one who exert a lot of influence over our government. And so I don't think it's crazy to be like, we can talk about that and also not be saying, I hate Barry the Dentist down the street, you know what I mean? Or something like that. Like to me, maybe because I'm Jewish, it's just I'm a little inoculated against that where I'm like, that's just obviously true to me, it's obviously true that like I don't, I don't hate my, my Jewish friends or my Jewish family or you know, I hate Benjamin Netanyahu. That's who I hate that guy.

Interviewer (26:05)

Yeah, I sort of this year especially I've started to reject the co opting of words like even if the ratio of civilians to terrorists were one to two that were killed in Gaza, that's bad. I don't want to see that. I don't like that. I don't want to see any, you know. And especially so, you know, the Jews co opted the term Holocaust to the exclusion of other people, other genocides, other atrocities. My grandfather was survived a bombing by the Imperial Japanese. We don't get that word. And it was an atrocity based on race during the same years and we're excluded. We just don't get it. Like 20 million Chinese, you don't count.

Dave Smith (26:51)

Right?

Interviewer (26:51)

And so.

Dave Smith (26:53)

No, that's right. Look, even in, even in the Holocaust, in the actual Holocaust, right. Like the worst of, at the very beginning of the Holocaust, in the, the worst of it was in Ukraine. And like in Ukraine, I think like in, in 41, I think it was like millions of Jews got killed in Ukraine. This is the same Ukraine where Stalin had just committed a genocide a decade earlier in the Holodomor. Right. And so people don't even put that together that like that. Okay, that's a big part of the bigger story there. World War II is the worst thing that's ever happened in the history of the world. Saying 60 to 70 million people got killed and a whole bunch of them got killed because of their ethnicity. Like it wasn't just was soldiers dying, you know, it was people like, like women and children got killed in Berlin because they were Germans who were in Berlin. Like that's what. And so yeah, we nuked cities. You know, stop. In the, in the immediate aftermath of World War II. I mean, Stalin's march or during the end of World War II. And then right immediately post World War II, ethnic Germans all throughout Eastern Europe were just lined up and killed and tortured and like. Anyway, the point is it's like a human nightmare that is, is almost beyond comprehension. And I do think that there is, there's been a Holocaust industry that has tried to reduce that story down to being this was a genocide of the Jews, which is a component of that story, a very important component. But like there's a whole lot more to it than just that. And you know, it was a war that is the bloodiest war in history. It destroyed Europe. It's. There's just a lot to it. And yes, I do, I do reject the idea that like any one group gets a monopoly on World War II. The truth is like almost every group has some skin in the game in that chapter in history.

Interviewer (28:49)

Sure. I think, you know, by and large I'm not speaking for all Chinese people, but the idea is that they are excluded from the word Holocaust, from the notion of it. I mean, it was horrible what the Chinese suffered at the hands of the Imperial Japanese. But you know, they sort of think the west doesn't care because Asian lives don't matter and there's no use value to making Chinese the victims. We want to go to war with them. So, you know, they suffered equally if in some cases, you know, just as bad or worse. And there's no story about that because we can't turn it into anything. There's no programming to continue down that route. There's nothing for us in the West.

Dave Smith (29:31)

You're 100% right. And you know, this was something that I thought was so fascinating last year when again, confession to good friends of mine. But when Daryl Cooper was on Tucker Carlson's show.

Interviewer (29:43)

Yes.

Dave Smith (29:43)

And made some slight, really mild comments. I mean, like he, and he couldn't have like. I mean, he prefaced it with like three or four different. Now I'm being a little hyperbolic and I really say this just to needle my buddy and I, but in many ways Churchill was the chief villain and he didn't commit the most atrocities and he didn't kill the most. Like, I mean, he sandwiched it between like five disclaimers to just go like, hey, here's a slightly different way to look at this. And it set off an explosion. Like every establishment figure came out like this. And then you go, you're like, well, why is it? What is really going on here? Because he didn't deny the Holocaust. He didn't say Adolf Hitler didn't commit atrocities. He didn't say Adolf Hitler was the good guy or anything like that. I think he described him at one point as a method out psychopath who had an entire nation held hostage. He wasn't like a pro Hitler guy. But the point is that exactly as you just said, this narrative has become this, like, it's like a Load bearing narrative, as Darryl calls it, where, look, any time, as somebody who's been a fair, like, I've been a pretty prominent critic of like the last few wars. And so I was against US Support of Ukraine and I'm against US Support of Israel. You know, over the last few years, every single time I do a big show or I make a big argument about this, every single time, the response is, what are you Neville Chamberlain? You would appease Adolf Hitler? And what about the Nazis? If, if you don't, if you don't think we should send money to aid to Ukraine, then you're Neville Chamberlain and Putin is Hitler. If you don't, oh, you think it's wrong that they bombed Gaza? Think about what we did in World War II. Like, it always goes back to World War II. As if the only lesson in history. Like, even if that was the lesson of World War II, which I really don't think it is, but even if that was the lesson of World War II, does that mean that in every single example, appeasement is wrong and aggression is always correct? Like, why can't we, why don't we just look at the example of Iraq or Afghanistan or Syria or Libya or Somalia or Yemen or, you know, like Vietnam or like, so, yeah, yeah, there's so many other ones. So like, there is this thing where it's like they create this kind of like World War II industry. And then because that's there, then you're supposed to justify everything about Israel, everything about the US Empire. And to me, that's actually the worst part of it is that these guys, I've watched it my whole life, they call everyone Hitler, everyone's Hitler. Noriega was Hitler, Hugo Chavez is Hitler. Saddam Hussein was Hitler. Muammar Gaddafi was Hitler. Vladimir Putin's Hitler. Hamas are the Nazis. Like, and really none of them are. None of them even kind of fit that description. I'm sorry. World War II was very complicated, but Adolf Hitler controlled almost all of Europe. Like, none of the. Hamas doesn't even control Gaza. Like, there's. I'm sorry, this is just not. And Vladimir Putin. There's no, it's just, there's, there's no comparison here. And so it ends up like, encouraging people to turn their brain off and support state aggression that I'm never going to be okay with.

Interviewer (33:00)

I noticed a tricky way to do that because I read Rachel Maddow's book, the most recent one prequel. Oh, An American Fight Against Fascism. Now her first book, Drift was about. Yeah, was actually quite good. It was about these expanding military complex and how only certain classes suffer deaths so the rest of us don't notice and they sell US wars. And then she turns around and writes prequel. And prequel is basically a criticism of everyone who was anti interventionalist during World War II. Like, wasn't that person. That was bad, right? Because Germany had all these like, representatives inside. So she's basically saying if you were anti interventionalist During World War II, you were the bad person. And she's warning you not to do that again, basically, and let the US Wage wars and support every single one of them. And it's an amazing about face. I don't understand how it happened, but you can see that that's the, that's the tactic, right?

Dave Smith (33:59)

I find it so fascinating. I'm glad you brought that up because like, I read, I used to like when she was on like Air America or whatever, there was like this other Rachel Maddow who was like a real leftist and had some leftist principles. And this was during the George W. Bush years. And so it was very easy for a leftist to be anti war back then. And then there was this transformation that happened with her when msnbc, because back then she like had a show on Air America and she'd regularly come on msnbc, but she didn't have her own show yet. And then like when she got her own show, it was right around the time Obama came in. All of a sudden, I don't know if you remember this, but they started like glamming her up. Like she used to be this. I mean, look, I'm not like trying to be a jerk or anything like that, but she used to be this very like, I don't know, like she was like kind of a lesbian tomboy type who just like, didn't. Didn't really wear makeup and what. And then all of a sudden they started like glamming her up and making her this thing and. And in these years, I mean, I don't know her exact salary, but like, there's no question that like she went from making like probably like a couple hundred thousand dollars a year to making like tens of millions of dollars. And all of a sudden Obama comes in. She was good for like the first couple months. I remember when Obama, when he gave a speech on like indefinite detention, it was like when Obama made it clear that the mask came off and he was actually going to be George W. Bush on steroids rather than the peace candidate. And she had a thing on her show where she was like, this is crazy. Like what are we talking about? And then something happened there where she shut up about that, took the exact opposite approach, and just ran with that for many years. And I've never heard her once address, how on earth did you get from drift to this? Yeah. And so I just, I do find that fascinating. I don't know any more than that, but it is like, I don't know, I feel like if all of a sudden, you know, if you were interviewing me, you know, three years from now, and I was like a socialist, you would kind of be like, hey, what? What that happened? Yeah, yeah. You used to be this free market libertarian guy and now you're like a socialist. So like, like, wouldn't I at least at some point have to address that? Like, it doesn't mean you can't change your mind. But I'd be like, oh, I read this great thinker and he persuaded me that actually I was wrong on this. Or I've never heard that story from her.

Interviewer (36:10)

Yeah, I don't know. And I think that it's very telling that she went so hard on Russiagate during Trump 1.0 when he was bombing Somalia, he was, you know, upping the drone wars that he was. There was things that she could have really gripped him, cuz she clearly hates him so much. She could have put her hooks into real things and she chose not to.

Dave Smith (36:32)

We could have used someone pointing that out. No, Trump was terrible on foreign policy. Donald Trump in his first administration, he surged in Afghanistan and sent in a few thousand more troops, even though he had already said that the war was unwinnable, which he was right about. You know, like, he was right. It was unwinnable and he still sent more troops there. He backed the Saudi invasion of Yemen, which was every bit as bad as Israel's destruction of Gaza. Like just an unreal war. A full blockade around the country enforced by our, by the US Navy. And the Saudis were bombing wheat silos and farms and like a war on the civilian population. Americans, fighters, American pilots were refueling the fighter jets for the Saudis. Well, we enforce the blockade for no reason. For no. You know, it's like people, Donald Trump's been bombing Yemen this time around in this administration. People like the Americans don't even know the history of this. They don't even know that we were at total war against the people of Yemen from 2015 all the way through 2022. So every single day of Donald Trump's first administration, that war was going on. He bombed Syria, he bombed Iraq. He, like, he made lots of mistakes. Rachel Maddow. The one thing that wasn't true was that he was, he was in a conspiracy with the Russians. Was always so she mentioned it just the other day. She's still on Russiagate. She said it on, on Colbert show. She said we did all that reporting at the time and look, now Vladimir Putin owns our government. Vladimir Putin owns our government. Trump, literally.

Interviewer (37:58)

Yeah. She's like, I'm insulted by it. Yeah.

Dave Smith (38:01)

Like the funny thing is, you know, the whole thing that they impeached Donald Trump about the dumb Ukraine gate.

Interviewer (38:06)

Yeah. Call with Zelensky.

Dave Smith (38:08)

Yes. So with what? They impeached him over. Think about how weak this is. They impeached him for. They said it was a quid pro quo because he had a phone call with Zelensky where he threatened to hold up the weapons package if they didn't investigate the Bidens. Okay. Now the major problem with that is that there was no quid pro quo. At worst you could say it was an attempted quid pro quo because he never got the investigations of the Bidens. And, and here's the other detail that everybody seems to forget. He caved and sent in the weapons package to Ukraine. Hey, I don't know, I'm no genius. Maybe some real smart person could explain this to me. Does that sound like what Vladimir Putin wanted? Did Vladimir Putin want the US government to send weapons to Ukraine? The Ukrainians were already engaged in a civil war at this time. Okay. And this before Vladimir Putin, it was the last day. Does Vladimir Putin want the US to support Israel? No. Did Vladimir Putin want the US to bomb Iran? No. So maybe Rachel Maddow, take another theory here because like this is so ridiculous. We had like a $30 million investigation on this that provided zero. There's nothing there. Russiagate was all a big hoax from the beginning. And she's still on it.

Interviewer (39:26)

I mean, is it so hard to say I'm sorry? Like I, I thought something, I thought I believe the Steele do. Like that's not, that would be forgivable, I think to a lot of her audience. David, are you going to say something?

Ron Paul Campaign Worker (39:38)

Yeah, I wanted to say like, it, it's like it just proves that it's like state run media. I don't know if you remember, Dave, when Jake Tapper was going hard on Obama for assassinating Anwar and Abraham Abalaki and then all of a sudden he's silent, got his own show, you know, Jen, Jen Psaki.

Interviewer (39:57)

What is Jen, Jen Psaki?

Ron Paul Campaign Worker (39:58)

Yeah. Saki got her own show. I mean it's like it's state run media.

Dave Smith (40:02)

Well, you know, I remember. So when I. This is probably like, I would say like 2016. So this is about 10 years ago where I was still, I was, I was kind of young at the time, so I was 32 or something like that. And I started getting on Fox News shows. This is like the first time I was ever on television. And it was before podcasting was really as big. And I, you know, like, I remember there was one, I went on a few of these shows and I think I did good on the panels. And there were like some people at Fox News who like, like they never said anything. Exactly. I mean, you know, you guys know about Fox News better than I do, but there were, they were kind of like, hey, look, some of the execs are really interested in you. You know, they've floated at the idea of offering you a contributorship. You know, there are some areas that they're a little concerned about things like this now. No one ever said anything specific to me, but I knew very well what I could do and like move up the food chain there, you know, like you just, you, you, you get that, you know what's around you. So sometimes it doesn't even have to be explicit. It's just like, hey, which path do you want to take here? We sure do love it when you're trashing Hillary Clinton, you know what I mean? Like, you want to keep doing that, you're going to be right at home here. And at the time, like, I mean, the contributorship I think was like 100 grand a year or something like that. But that was like, really meant a lot to me. You know, the time I'm making like 40 grand a year, you're like, oh, that would be life changing if I could have that. And so I think that with a lot of these things, it doesn't even need to be a formal conspiracy. It's just kind of like, you know, what's going to move you up the chain here? You and you know, what's going to take you out of this? Look, if you want, if you want to ask a lot of questions about Anwar A. Lockie and how where exactly the President of the United States derives the authority to kill an American citizen with no formal charges brought against him, then you can have a nice career being Ryan Grimm. Yeah, but you can't be Jake Tapper. You can't be the 8pm at CNN if you're going to do that. And so there inherently is a choice to be made for people. And I Understand, people are very easily corruptible, and human beings are very good at rationalizing away that decision.

Interviewer (42:16)

You know, well, we can see by who gets punished. Right? And so I don't know if, you know, my husband, Clayton, he hosted Fox and friends for seven years while we were. Well, before that, for 10 years, seven while we were married. And I watched it as a liberal. I watched my husband on tv and I was like, why are they so upset about Hillary's emails and who Barack Obama goes to dinner with and Michelle Obama's muscles? Like, who cares? Right? But they were so on that at the same time, Obama was killing people, Hillary Clinton was killing children, waging wars for her reelect for her election campaign. Like, why was Fox not on that? I think when I read. I remember reading Enough Already by Scott Horton, I was like, why didn't Fox do all of this if they hated Obama? So they had plenty. Why'd they do all this dumb stuff? You know? And then you saw halfway through Clayton's tenure there, Tucker was put in as his co acre. So they anchored together for a while, and then Clayton left and Tucker went on to nighttime. And then we see why Tucker. Yeah, I mean, I don't know personally. He's never told me why he, you know, left Fox. But what he seemed to be punished for was a anti war stance. Much like Phil Donahue.

Dave Smith (43:29)

Yeah, of course. I mean, that's. That's always what it is. And it would always be like, you know, back in the. It's funny because I, I literally saw who I'm supposed to be debating soon, but I saw Dinesh d' Souza in this interview and I thought it was. So I actually really appreciated that he said kind of the quiet part out loud. But, you know, someone was asking him, like, oh, we have this big problem with Tucker Carlson and Candace Owens and, you know, whoever, Nick Fuentes. These guys are, like, dominating the right wing commentary space. And, but. And then Dinesh d' Souza just goes, yeah, you know, the problem is we used to have a Bill Buckley and an Irving Kristol, and they would decide who was allowed in and who wasn't. And now we just don't have anything like that. And then his explanation for why the neocons lost all their influence is because he said it's because they were never Trumpers. And so then when the Trump administration came, they didn't get a seat at the table in that administration, which is like, hey, Dinesh, you really. You kind of yada yada over the whole terror wars.

Interviewer (44:27)

Yeah.

Dave Smith (44:27)

Which were like, A pretty big deal, too. Like there was an Iraq war in there. But anyway, the point I'm making is just that all those guys who Bill Buckley and Irving Kristol purged, that he was talking about from the 50s all the way up till the 90s, okay, when National Review just when, when they would call people, you know, when Dinesh d' Souza would get Sam Francis fired for being racist or Pat Buchanan would lose his show for being racist, or Ron Paul would get Judge Napolitano. Judge Napolitano, Ron Paul's old.

Interviewer (44:56)

And again, Phil Donahue were racist.

Dave Smith (44:58)

All of them. You know what all of them had in common? They were all anti war. It just so happened to be, coincidentally that all of the voices who got silenced and kicked out were all the ones who were against the warfare machine. Because the truth is that that is the U.S. government. The U.S. government is the warfare machine. And that's what you can't go against. And so you see, look, you even see it with, with your husband, who I don't like, know very well. I mean, like, I've seen him on, on a few shows and stuff, but like seeing him on Fox News and then see him in after Fox News in an interview with Tucker Carlson and it's just like, you could just see he's so much freer to just say whatever he wants to say now. And actually now you hear him say like, all this really interesting stuff now. I don't know if he was ever.

Interviewer (45:42)

He's unchained.

Dave Smith (45:44)

Well, I love it, though. I mean, but I don't know if you're exactly, ever consciously, like, censoring yourself. But at the same time, like, even if he had some of those thoughts while he was on Fox News, on some level he knows, oh, man, this is going to be a whole thing if I say this here, you know what I mean? Like this. And, and it's just, it's nice to me. I enjoy seeing people in an environment where they're unencumbered by stuff like that and we can have like a real conversation. Tell me how you really think. Because, like, then we could get to the bottom of something. So, you know, it's an interesting dynamic.

Ron Paul Campaign Worker (46:14)

Well, can I. And I want to point out too, I had a chance. I don't know if you've ever talked to Ron Paul, but I worked Ron Paul social media campaign in 2012, and I got to have dinner with him and Carol and I was, I said, ron, like, you've cured my apathy. I want to get involved in politics. Should I Run for Congress? Should I become, you know, Senate or something? He's like, no, get in the media. And that's exactly what I did. And I just realized how much more, you know, influential you can be in media than as a politician. I mean, look at poor Thomas Massie, what he's fighting.

Dave Smith (46:43)

Yeah. Look, and I do. I mean, I think it's important that we have someone playing that role, too. But Dr. Paul is really always right. And that's right also, by the way, just the kindest, sweetest human being I've ever met. Like, just. Yeah. Unbelievable person. But, yeah, look, I mean, because the truth is that controlling the government apparatus is a very difficult thing to do. And I think, as we all know, Congress doesn't really have that much control of anything anyway. I mean, essentially, Thomas Massie is there to make a point, is not there to really get legislation passed or roll back the size of government. He's there to make a point and expose everybody else for their hypocrisy or their corruption. But what I think, Dr. Paul, which, you know, he was light years ahead of his time on so many issues, I think what he saw was that the real weakness here, and I think this is the bigger picture of what's going on in this moment in America, is that governments rely on propaganda. And the US Government's propaganda apparatus has been obliterated. It doesn't exist anymore. They have no propaganda apparatus. Like, there's Donald Trump got elected, you know, or he took office almost a year ago for the second time. He came in with record high approval ratings. He had miraculously won every swing state, the popular vote and really captured the culture in a way that was like, unforeseeable years. Like, the idea that young people were going to be for Donald Trump was. Would have been unthinkable in 2016. And then when he tried to sell his war in Iran, there was just nothing but revolt against it from his own base. Like, he couldn't even get. He couldn't even get. Even the most charismatic political figure couldn't get it done because they don't have a media apparatus anymore. They don't have. Like, when George W. Bush wanted to sell his war, well, then, okay, orders are given every single night. Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh, all these guys are going to scare your grandma thinking that Saddam Hussein is working with bin Laden and he's going to nuke Kansas next with the nukes that he has. And they just get. But today, Donald Trump had Tucker Carlson and Candace Owens and all. And they all went, huh? Yeah, I don't think so, you know.

Interviewer (48:58)

Yeah, I mean, I wanted to see that revolt out of the Democrats who are supposed to be anti war over Ukraine. We didn't get it right. So, nope. Maybe we're giving a template right now, like, hey, you know, you can support someone and then still be pissed off because you don't have to follow partisan politics. I guess, you know, that answers what would be my last question for you is whether you're glass half full or glass half to empty on American democracy right now because you are encouraged by the blowback of the tenants that were promised for Donald Trump's campaign. So do you, do you want to play that out glass half full or glass half empty on America right now? Going into the.

Dave Smith (49:37)

Sure, absolutely. Absolutely. And let me tell you, just because we were just talking about my hero, Dr. Ron Paul. Every time I see him, and I just saw him a few months ago for his 90th birthday, and every time I see him, he always asked me, he always like, says something nice and then we talk and then he asks me, but in this very like, father figure kind of way where, like, the answer is implied. And he asked me, he goes, so, Dave, he goes, are you optimistic or pessimistic about the future? And then kind of like looks at me and I always go, there's an optic answer. Yes. I go, I'm very optimistic. And then he goes, that's right, that's correct. You know, and his whole thing was like, you. Oh, Like, I just, I hate cynicism. I hate the black pill. I don't, My thing is like, I think I'm a father. I'm a husband and I'm a father. I don't have the option to be a glasses half empty type of guy. The, the analogy that I like to use is I go, so imagine. I imagine there are five guys with guns. And I see them and they're approaching my, my house and I know that they, they mean to come in here and kill me and my family. And then, okay, so what do I do? Like, okay, well, I don't know. I got a bunch of guns upstairs. I go grab a gun. I got, you know, I got some cans of gasoline in my shed. Maybe I try to make a makeshift bomb. Maybe I know my house better. What I don't get the option to do is go, oh, man, there's also them. Yeah, there's five of them and one of me. It's all so bad. Like, this is just depressing. I Don't get the option to do that because I got a wife and two kids who are dependent on me. So I look at things like this, I go, there's. Yeah. Are there, are there things that are bad that are going on? Sure. As Donald Trump just, I think his second administration has been a total failure. Aside from securing the border, which is really great, I think everything else has been a failure. Okay. You know, my grandfather fought in the Second World War, like there was a world war for my mom's dad, you know what I mean? Like not that long ago. And he didn't do that his whole life. He wasn't just, you know what I'm saying? So like, if he could get through that, you know, I think I could probably handle getting through living in my nice house with my beautiful family. I think that we have an ability to break the propaganda unlike before. I think we have an ability to get our ideas out unlike before. And we have no idea like the positive effects that could happen. You know, people thought communism was going to reign forever. The neocons in the 1980s were talking about how Ronald Reagan's appeasement has led to another hundred year reign of the Soviets. They, they didn't exist 10 years later. They were just gone. Nobody had predicted that was going to happen. Slavery was abolished across the Western world. If you were sitting around in 1840 saying you think slavery is going to be abolished in the next 25 years, this is my, my friend, the brilliant economist Gene Epstein used to make this point. You go, you would have sounded insane if you had in 1840 said in 25 years slavery will be abolished across the West. People would have said it's an institution as old as time. It's the way of life in the South. There's no way you could possibly abolish. Except that did happen. And so even if things seem impossible, like they can't, like human beings are capable of like creating amazing things and improving in amazing ways. And so I'm, I'm a total glasses, half full person.

Interviewer (52:55)

I appreciate that. I need it a lot because I think to myself a lot of times, what am I doing, you know, talking on the Internet, does it, does it mean anything? And then I look at my children and I think, I need to, when I'm done here, tell myself I spoke for a free thinking movement that aimed at morality for everyone, every life is equal. And that's how I see it when I sit back in this chair, even if I don't feel it, even if I feel discouraged. So anyway, you are one of those who helps me keep going. And I think you help a lot of people keep going because you can do it with a smile on your face. I don't know how you do that. And I think that maybe I tapped into a little bit of how you do that. And I really appreciate it and I just wanted to know you. So thank you for being so generous with your time. Time.

Dave Smith (53:43)

Oh, absolutely. I really enjoyed this. I'd love to do it again.

Interviewer (53:46)

Yeah, Anytime. Okay. Thank you so much. And happy holidays and Happy New Year.

Dave Smith (53:51)

Same to you guys.

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Drew, lift with your legs, man.

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Santa, did you get my letter?

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I'm not.

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Right, Santa, you know my elf Drew here, he handles the nice list.

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Dave Smith (55:04)

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