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C
I wanted to talk to Jay Dyer, our guest today, because he has a really interesting perspective on the perversion of Christianity in modern day society, specifically politics and entertainment. And I think those things are more important than ever. I think we're all understanding that there's hidden messages behind everything, but we're not sure what to lob on to. And we see these moments of I see cultural waves and you Know, I think we all are right to be skeptical, especially in the wake of the Charlie Kirk death. You know, we saw this megachurch event which was his memorial, but who's gaining power behind that? I'm just very interested in this sort of Christian revival and what might be right or wrong behind it. So that's why I thought. Jay Dyer was an interesting guest today. He joins us for the first time on Redacted. Thank you so much for joining me.
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D
Thank you, Natalie. Glad to be here. I've been watching your interviews with my good friend Jim Jotra, so I'm honored to be here as well.
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C
Yeah, so, I mean, he also is an Orthodox. I met him at a Ron Paul event and he has a lot to say about not just politics, but also culture. I am sort of new to Orthodoxy. And I guess if we talk about it at this moment that we come to right now where the United States government has unconditional support for Israel and it's selling. A lot of people are selling this through the lens of Christianity. And so that's made a lot of us sort of peel the onion of Christianity and think, where'd that come from? And who's gaining power? And now in the fall of 2025, we had the death of Charlie Kirk, which created this new wave of non denominational Christians. But what do they stand. Stand for? And so that's why I wanted to talk to you because you've had this journey of studying Christianity and have landed in Orthodox and you can see these messages that are sort of perverted in our culture politically and through the entertainment industry. So I'm going to let you just take it. Can you sort of paint me a picture of where you've been and how you see that played out today?
- [04:10]
D
Yeah, I can speak to this because I was raised Baptist and in the Baptist Church in America. In America, especially the Southern Baptist circles, dispensationalism or Christian Zionism is pretty much the norm. It's not a dogma per se, but I think most Southern Baptist churches hold to this, especially coming out of areas like Dallas Theological Seminary, which is a classical dispensational hub. And I would say about 100, 100 plus years ago, you had people in the circles of Samuel Untermeyer, who's the famous US Zionist, and he really pushed, pushed for the Scofield Study Bible and through certain clubs that he was a member of to recruit people into these clubs, people like C.I. scofield himself, who was kind of a notorious con man, he created a study Bible with not Much of a pedigree himself for having any academic research or background. And the study Bible became very popular right around the time of the founding of the. Well, what would become the Balfour Declaration. The Balfour Declaration, the nation state of Israel in 1948. But back in 1917, when Balfour Declaration came out, there was this sort of coordinated push between Oxford University in the UK printing the Scofield Study Bible and the push for that in the US through these circles and these clubs. And that's why it became so popular is, is a lot of money was behind it, a lot of promotion. And prior to that, most Protestant churches are what's called classical Protestant Reformation churches like Methodists, Lutherans, Presbyterians. They didn't have this Zionist view. Zionism is a very movement, especially even in the late 1800s. It was being discussed by Moses Hess in his book Roman Jerusalem. I think it's 1865 text. He's one of the first to say we need this movement to, you know, reclaim from Arab states and from the Sultan this land of Israel. And he eventually got the nation the support of the British Empire. So, long story short, there was a geopolitical motivation behind the push for American Protestant churches to adopt Evangelical Zionism. It didn't really catch on in the mainline Protestant churches, but fundamentalist churches really latched onto it because they were, they were duped by this study Bible. And now it's pretty much, I would say most Southern Baptists, most evangelicals kind of just default to this. But it took many, many decades to get them into this mindset. So it's one of the clearest ways to understand the subversion of the church through geopolitical motivations. And more recently, I would say if you go back to the 1970s, you had the Jesus people movement that a lot of the boomers were duped into. And that was through things like the late great Planet Earth from Hal Lindsey, people associated with Campus Crusade for Christ. And there's a great book by F. Liam Engdahl, who's kind of a geopolitical analyst. He wrote a book called Lost Hegemon, which describes the present day of the last few decades. Subversion of evangelical groups through the Pentagon military industrial complex. I don't know if you remember Kony 2012, but that was one of the first incidents that occurred where I started noticing why is the. Why are these evangelical entities Campus Crusade for Christ, et cetera? Why are they pushing for this geopolitical motivation or movement of Africom in North Africa at the behest of the Pentagon and the More I studied into that, the more I started to notice whether it's the evangelical Zionist dispensational stuff about the end times in Israel or whether it's the front for things like Africom and US operations overseas to couch it and taking out this dictator. A lot of the evangelical stuff is tied to the hip with the Pentagon, the CIA, et cetera, all the way back to the Moral Majority with Jerry Falwell.
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C
Right. I think a lot of us, I'll just tell you who you're talking to. So, you know, you know, I think we should, we should not assume that anyone watching this understands dispensationalists. So. Because that was relatively new to me. And I think that a lot of us, I was raised a Jehovah's Witness, so that's my understanding of the Bible. I'm not that any longer, but that is how I know the Bible and Jehovah's Witnesses very much do not believe in world governments. They believe that there's nothing, nothing that stands above God and that you should never put your allegiance in world governments. And so we have seen Christian churches pledge their allegiance to Israel, going flat against the Bible, whatever Bible you use. No Bible says only this government is fine. And so that makes a lot of us curious. And that sent me back to my Christian Bible asking questions, which I think is a good thing, right? But then I see now this, this non denominational wave that, that caught popularity in the wake of Charlie Kirk's death. And I'm like, who's gaining power from this, right? Who, what's not right here? And I can't make heads or tails of it. So I want somebody more studied than me to guide me. And maybe other people feel that way too.
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D
Yes, a dispensationalism is an ideology about the end times and ultimately all of history. That comes out of the Plymouth Brethren movement in the late 1800s in the, they were a split off of the Anglican Church, the Church of England, and they followed a guy named John Nelson Darby who kind of charted out all of this prophecy that he had thought he had figured out from the Bible that all of history is divided up into these sections or these sort of disparate segments. And that God in these different dispensations deals with mankind in a different way. Eventually it led him to conclude that there's two separate covenants, one for the Gentile Church, the believers throughout history who are Gentiles, in a separate covenant for the nation state of Israel. And you can begin to see why again, since the British Empire had its motivations to support the nation state of Israel, particularly amongst the Royal Society elites, the Cliveden set, etc. The Rothschilds, they would be very amenable to promoting this ideology which told all the fundamentalist Christians in the west and evangelicals that you need to get behind, behind this nation state of Israel because it's a fulfillment of prophecy if it's, if it's established. So it's really kind of a bait and switch thing. But more specifically, the end times theories that you think about like in terms of, you know, Tim LaHaye's Left behind series, Nick Cage in that movie Left behind, that's all dispensational ideology. So you would have pastors like John Hagee would be kind of the face of this for, for today. But it's been around for about 100, 120 years, 130 years. And that's part of the push amongst evangelicals and entities like Kufi, which is the John Hagee Christians United for Israel Institute. That whole ideology is about the fact that you must support anything the nation state of Israel does. And if you don't, you're spitting in the face of God and you're, you know, touching the apple of his eye. Because Israel is the apple of his eye. Well, the historical tradition of all churches prior to the last 100 years of dispensationalism, we understand that the church is the new Israel. So the church is the fulfillment of what Israel was a type. So the promises to Abraham and to Israel are fulfilled in the Christian church. They're not promises to a socialist nation state based around atheistic and Kabbalistic principles. And that is when you read Chaim Weizmann and when you read Theodore Herzl and Moses Hess who are the founders of modern Zionism, I mean they didn't, they believed in like pantheism and, and Hegelianism. They weren't Christians or, I mean they weren't orthodox Jewish believers. They had very heterodox views and much more into politics than they were religion. So it just doesn't make any sense if you, even if you believe the Bible, why would an atheist nation state based around socialism be the fulfillment of God's prophecies and promises to the, to the Jews of the Old Testament? So so many things don't add up. But that's what dispensational dispensationalism is, is a sort of defaulting to trusting. You know, anything that Israel does is part of divine profit, providence and prophecy.
- [12:45]
C
This Episode is brought to you by Rumble Premium, the home of free speech and exclusive content from the videos that matter. With Rumble Premium, you get ad free viewing, access to exclusive exclusive shows and premium features across the platform. We're talking about Steven Crowder's Mug Club, Tim Pool's Tim Cast, Russell Brand's raw commentary, and of course redacted. Plus tons of other bold creators that you won't find anywhere else. Whether it's breaking news, real talk, or the content that challenges the narrative, Rumble Premium puts you in the front row. Support creators who actually say what they mean in a place that they can say it's and mean what they say. Go to rumble.com premium redacted to join today one more time. That's rumble.com premium redacted because truth should not come with a filter. I wonder what you thought of the Charlie Kirk Memorial. In a lot of ways, I found it very sincere. But they were doing on the spot conversions. Stand up if you'd like to accept Jesus for the first time in your life. And I said, see now three months past that event, how those people now will be in a dragnet of dispensational Christians. And so I'm not saying that was purposeful. I don't have any proof, but it feels very much like that handed power to a lot of politics that I don't think is ordained by the Bible. This is my gut reaction. Would you like to respond to that?
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D
Yeah, I would agree with that assessment. You know, I don't think that God and the state are enemies or anything like that. I think if you read Romans 12 or if you go back to the book of Genesis, God established the state to have the authority to punish evildoers. But that doesn't make the state God. And that's why so many times the state has tried to be God and it's persecuted religious believers throughout the last 2,000 years of the church. But in regard to specifically things like the Charlie Kirk Memorial and the, the sort of evangelical entities connect to that, the problems with that, it's connected to the Calvary Chapel. It's connected to things that were created by people from the CIA. If you look into Chuck Smith, if you look into Paul Kane, if you look into these characters that are kind of Lonnie Frisbee that are the, the, the beginning of the, the Calvary Chapel denomination, they all come out of CIA military intelligence type stuff. Some of them came out eventually as being frauds and they were exposed as homosexual and channeling aliens. Just crazy stuff.
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C
Wait, really?
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D
Why Would we.
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C
Can you tell me more about that? This is something that, you know, I.
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D
Think most got to look into characters like Paul Kane and Lonnie Frisbee. Lonnie Frisbee, I think if I'm going for memory here was the one that was one of the early Calvary Chapel guys who claimed to be able to speak, you know, multiple languages. And he had these miraculous powers. He was a prophet and all this stuff. And then it turned out he was just a gay dude. And there was another guy named. Yeah, there was another. I mean, it wasn't a prophet. It's a shocker. There's. Paul Kane is another guy who worked with the CIA trying to do stuff related to the Stanford research project, if I recall. I'm going from memory here, but you can look up these guys. Most of the stuff is pretty easily accessible.
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C
Well, you don't have to give us all of it, but the trail is important, right? I want to follow that trail.
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D
Yeah. And not everybody. Not everybody. That's part of TPSA faith, which is a separate. There's tpusa and there's like TPUSA faith, which is the sort of evangelical franchise. Churches associated with it. Many of those people are part of what's called the new Apostolic Reformation. And they think that they're prophets, they think they're apostles. So there's a lot of charismatic kind of weirdness going on. And most of them, as we said, are dispensationalists, Christian Zionists. And you're exactly right. There's a. People funneling into these groups are going to be put into that mindset which ultimately has a geopolitical agenda, has nothing really to do with. With Christianity. The people, I'm sure, are sincere. So I'm not doubting the people's sincerity.
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C
So too.
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D
But the movements and the franchise and that's the thing with the Calvary Chapel, for example, is a. It's like. It's like a business. So it's not a church. It's more like a corporate, you know, franchise like Subway or something. So, yeah, you could. There's another great thing to look at that is more focused on the realm of Catholicism, but it's the same principles called the Doctrinal warfare Program. And there's a Roman Cavill guy who wrote a great book on it. His name is David Wim Hof and it's called John Courtney Murray, Time Life Magazine and the American Proposition. And he's a Catholic lawyer that wrote about an 800 page book on this doctrinal warfare program that C.D. jackson and Henry Luce of Time magazine came up with during the Cold War to co opt American churches. So it's not just Catholic, that book focuses on Catholic, but it's also evangelical orthodox, you name it. The idea was, why don't we turn the churches into a form of soft power? And that will be a very powerful engine during the Cold War. And they even discussed Billy Graham kind of being one of these tools of social engineering during the Cold War because he could turn a lot of people to faith away from Soviet atheism. So those are examples of people figuring out, you know, even in the Cold War. And this is a declassified program you can look up. It's been declassified. It's not a conspiracy theory. Yeah, yeah. The religion is a perfect tool not just for soft power, but also for, I mean, even at times using missionaries as spies. So you mentioned, you know, things like Joe's Witnesses and things like that. Russia, for example, has banned Scientology and Jehovah's Witness missionary proselytizing work because of the instances of those groups being used for espionage. So. And I'm not saying that's just those. No. Yeah, this is a classic. Yeah, it's a classic thing to use missionaries and, and, and people like that for, for reconnaissance, for, for espionage. Absolutely.
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C
Is there intelligence that Jehovah's Witnesses have been infiltrated to be used, but as foreign spies?
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D
Yeah.
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C
Okay. This is really good.
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D
I mean, I'm saying that's the, that's part of the reason why Russia would ban them. It's not the only. It's not the only reason, but it's one of the reasons. And the same with Scientology and Mormonism as well. But it's not just those groups. I mean, sure, there's a long history of evangelical churches being used for espionage too. So there's been books, some great books on that over the years. Like I said, Lost Hegemon discusses it somewhat. There's a book called I Will Be Done about Rockefeller's using Baptist and Episcopal missionary, Evangelical missionaries in Latin and South America for private corporate espionage. So, yeah, this is a whole other rabbit trail to go down. But it's an in. It's a window into something that I think you're hitting on, Natalie, that most people just don't know about this. Like, they don't know that churches are seen by the state as a tool of soft power primarily. So I'm not saying they're all spies. I'm just saying religious groups can be a great cover or a great tool of Soft power.
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C
And that's a tale as old as time. I mean, we know that the Crusades were really a political expansion movement sanctioned by the Catholic Church. That's pretty clear right now. So it's always been, even though our Constitution allows for separation of church and state, the church still exists, which is a right power center for the government to exploit whether it wants to be or not. And we can talk about intention another time. Recently we had a Christian pastor on redacted explaining this movement to us. And, and he said that evangelicals are really sold the idea of American patriotism. And that's why there's so. And, and I don't think I really understood that. How is that done when you are supposed to again, I mean, Jehovah's Witnesses don't even vote. That's how much they keep neutral in world governments because it's important to them. And so how, how are other Christian faiths taught patriotism when the Bible does not?
- [21:08]
D
Well, I might disagree with you there because I do think that there's nothing wrong with being a patriot or supporting our nation state or having borders. If you look at Hebrews 11, for example, Paul holds up as examples of faith people from the Old Testament who defended Israel and defended their borders. He even says they expelled the foreigners. And that's a model.
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C
Maybe my question was misguided then. I think what I'm asking is like, like governmental loyalty. So obviously, yes. Patriots. Something different.
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D
Yeah, yeah, so. So like for example, in the first three centuries of the Christian church, when the Roman Empire turned against Christianity heavily and started persecuting it, they would make it mandatory that you worship Caesar or that you pay divine obeisance to the image of the emperor. And there were many people who were killed, the martyrs of the first three centuries, because they wouldn't admit that Caesar was God. So there's limitations or it's sometimes it's called spheres of authority. Right. So the, the state has a legitimate element or degree of authority, but when he oversteps that we as Christians or as Orthodox, we have the duty to obey the higher authority. So if God has given limitations to the state that they can't go beyond certain bounds, for example, the state can't come in and tell the church what to do when it does that it's overstepped its bounds. And this, this church has a duty to oppose the state. If the state comes in and says, you have to worship me as God, well, I have a duty to follow the Ten Commandments, which tells me that that's above the State, the state telling me to worship it as God. Right. That's a lower authority violating a higher authority. So. Yeah, but I think that you're absolutely spot on with figuring out that evangelicalism is very, very prone to worshiping the American government as a kind of de facto voice of God. And so anything, especially going back to, you know, post 9 11, I remember when I was young, I was in my twenties back then when that, when that happened, I was right around age 21, 9, 11 happened. And I remember the patriotism and the worship of the American state was just everywhere and you couldn't question it. I started questioning 911 right after it happened. And I remember I was ostracized. Family members were mad, you know, but I was doubting the narrative. And it's because I didn't put, put the state as God. I didn't put, you know, Americanism as, you know, one of my religious principles. I have no problem criticizing, you know, the American nation, the American foreign policy, and even our Enlightenment principles. So I think you're spot on that a lot of people are sort of inculcated, especially in American evangelical churches to kind of almost de facto think that, you know, whatever America does is God. That's what Jesus wants. You know what I mean?
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C
Yeah.
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D
Especially in evangelicalism. Absolutely. So they play on patriotism. They play on.
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C
Right, Yeah. I think what I'm so curious about now, which I've again never seen before, we see the rise of Catholicism right now, for whatever reason, we see the rise of non denominational Christianity. And a lot of that, as sincere as those conversions may be, are giving rise to certain power structures that we should ask questions about now, as I become interested, and again, I'm coming to you as someone who studied the Bible from the Jehovah's Witness lens, left Christianity for a while and then comes back to it now and says, what is this? What is Christian Zionism? What is this evangelical patriotism that's leading to a war rhetoric? What is this? And I want to know again. So I'm coming back around and trying to figure it out. And then a lot of the political discussion is, well, Catholicism has always been the enemy of communism. They've always been fighting against that. And so they are the original Christian warriors. And then you go beyond that, there's another layer. Well, actually orthodoxy is the straightest line from Jesus Christ. And so every time there's this like hill to climb, I'm like, oh, there's the power structure. Oh, there's the power structure. So that's why I'm so curious to talk to someone who has gone through this and arrived at Orthodoxy. So I'm going to let you respond to that. That's not really a question, but it's a. It's a journey.
- [25:38]
D
It was. Yeah. I mean, I was, like I said, started Baptist and then I spent most of my twenties in the Roman Catholic world. I was Catholic for almost 10 years. And for me there was just a lot of problems with the pre Vatican II and post Vatican II theology because there's such a stark change and whole premise of, you know, Catholicism is that it's the one true faith that doesn't change. The dogmas don't change, they don't evolve. And yet here we have, especially after Vatican ii, the dogma is evolving to be very, you know, stark contrast between what we see in the Middle Ages. For example, Popes Urban II calling a crusade and then now the popes can pray in the mosque towards Mecca. So which one is it? What's the real authentic Catholicism? Is it Mother Teresa praying in Buddhist temples? Or is it, you know, calling a crusade against the Muslims to free the Holy Land? I mean, that's such a stark contrast to me that I. It was just so hard to try to make that work. And so what I ended up doing was just sort of focusing on the Church fathers and the Christianity of the first thousand years and how the Bible came to be. You know, who put the canon of Scripture together. And you know, as you can see, this is all the Church fathers here back behind me. That's what kind of eventually put me in the direction of orthodox Christianity. So I came to believe and be convinced that the, the form of Christianity that's prevalent in the first thousand years isn't the papal one, it's the orthodox one. So that's. Long story short, that's where it took me. But I think you're hitting on other geopolitical factors here that are relevant because, for example, the papacy nowadays kind of is positioning itself to be not just the head of the Catholic world in communion, but there's a real push for a world religion, for a false kind of union of all the religions under the papacy. For example, they created an Abu Dhabi faith center recently with Vatican approval and support, where Muslims, Christians and Jews are all gathering together to sort of have this common generic worship of some generic God. And, you know, if you look at the first thousand years of Christianity, that's absolutely antithetical to the whole ethos of what Christianity is. So for me, those are key indicators and signs that you know, the Vatican has really gone off in this Davos World Economic Forum direction. In fact, the previous Pope had the same mentor as Klaus Schwab. So that to me is a huge, you know, red flag.
- [28:08]
C
Yeah. I recently finished the book In God's Name about the murder of Pope John Paul the First.
- [28:17]
D
Oh, that's. Yeah, that's classic. Yeah.
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C
And I'm convinced that he was murdered, I don't think.
- [28:23]
D
And yeah, it gets into the P2 Lodge and Operation Gladio.
- [28:27]
C
Yes, absolutely. And the power. It was really that. That is a proof positive of the deep states infiltration of this power structure.
- [28:37]
D
Absolutely.
- [28:38]
C
And the, the changes that Joe, that John Paul the First wanted to make were then thrown in the garbage Vatican Bank. And. Yes. And the. The. His successors were business as usual, if not worse. And I don't know, you know, I'm not exactly sure what to do with that. Maybe you're ahead of me there.
- [28:58]
D
You're spot on to look at Gladio there. I mean, Gladio is yet another one of these operations where you have. Going all the way back to the early OSS guys. You have William Colby, you have Cord Meyer, you have people like Angleton. All these people being involved in setting up relationships with the CIA and the Vatican, whereby the Vatican would get money to sort of win some of these elections when the communists were getting more and more popular in Italy. And the trade off was that the CIA would have access to and support from the Vatican and also use the Vatican Bank. And so Gladio becomes this sort of model of concentric circles of scams of shell companies within shell companies. You have the Banco d', Ambrosio, which I'm sure you noticed in that book, one of the big banks that collapsed. And according to. If you read Paul Williams's book on Gladio, who's himself a Catholic, he notes that this intertwining of the CIA and the Vatican bank and the Papacy was so disastrous because it really ended up putting the Vatican into or under the thumb of the ca. Yeah, that. That's why you have during. Especially during the Cold War. And I understand that doesn't make communism good. I'm not pro atheist, pro socialist, but the point is that when you link yourself like this, you end up getting a new master. And I think that's why the Vatican has been so on board with all the New World Order, you know, Davos globalist stuff, is that they've been in bed with, you know, the CIA and these entities for. And the CIA is really just the front for the Rockefellers. If you, if you ask me, a lot of the people in the circles of the Rockefellers, I'm right now I'm reading a Burton Hersh's book and lecturing through that called the Old Boys. And that's just about the founding members in the oligarchical elite of the, of the OSS and CIA. They're all really just front men for the Rockefellers. Bill Donovan, Allen Dulles, you know, all these people working from, from, for banks then go and found this, you know, intelligence apparatus. But they're connected obviously to the Vatican. And I'm glad you mentioned Gladio because you have essentially the subversion of not just the Vatican but also Italy. Italian politics ended up being subverted according to Paul Williams, because.
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C
It'S from the working class.
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D
They stole the working classes money. Yeah, they stole their pensions. When the Banco d' Ambrosio collapsed, they lost all their money. But Italy was being run basically by Kissinger through Licio Galley of the PT Lodge. And according to Paul Williams, he argues that it was the same model of kind of an Epstein style operation where they basically compromised most of the Italian cardinals and politicians through the bunga bunga parties that Silvio Berlusconi is famous for. It's the same stuff that Epstein was doing.
- [31:51]
C
And the story of the death of John Paul I, it reads like a spy novel. He, he went to bed, he had asked for all these people's resignations that he suspected, suspected were in bed with the Mafia, went to bed that night, did healthy dude did not wake up the next day. And when he was found by his, the nun that took care of him, one of the most important suspects came in, took all his medication, took his slippers, took his glasses, took everything. And then that those evidential bits were never found again. And the Vatican insisted that he could not have an autopsy.
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D
Yeah, they covered it up.
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C
Yeah, it and people who were not, who didn't even live in the Vatican were there at 5 in the morning. The Hearst was called before his body was even discovered. It's, it, it's undeniable that there were power structures who benefited from putting someone else in his place. I am so interested in your work because I've never seen someone who sees the subversion of propaganda as a religious practice. But I think that it is and I don't think that we understood this and now I see almost every sort of spiritual movement and I, and I ask myself who benefits there and what's the real spirituality behind that that's required of us. I was thinking as I was preparing for this, for instance, Oprah's movement, this like non denominational faith based movement, this Joseph Campbell that. We're all in the same spiritual journey, but there's nobody who can lead it. There's no church center. There's nothing that this led to the witch movement in the early 2000s. I think that, you know, I followed that for a long time. Like, yeah, not the church. It's all. It's all individual. Who benefits there? What do you think of this?
- [33:43]
D
Well, that fits perfectly with the Americanist ethos, right? Americanism is all about individualism. And so it makes sense that you would get an individualized or radically atomized individualistic spirituality out of that. You know, Joseph Campbell is really just kind of cribbing from Carl Young. She's watered down Carl Young type archetypal stuff. So, you know, it's a mix. And I think that big name influencers like that or. Or moguls, I guess you could say with Oprah, you know, they've long had a fixation with spirituality and sort of tailoring that to their largely women audience. And I think. So I think it marketable from a marketing perspective would play well with her audience being largely women. What they would gravitate towards would be something like that. But I think ultimately they're really just fraudulent sort of copies out of, you know, freemasonry, that kind of stuff. Joseph Campbell's big on Freemasonry. So they're just. It's kind of creating and tailoring your own religion. You know, if you look at somebody like Aleister Crowley, the famous Satanist of the last century, when he. Who worked for British intelligence, by the way, when he created his system of. It's almost like a grad school for creating religious cults. When you go through the degrees of his cult, you get to the top and sort of the end of it is you've learned now how to create your own religion. So, for example, L. Ron Hubbard, he went through that structure, and when he came out of it, he creates Scientology. Speaking of which stuff, Gerald Gardner went through Crowley's structure, and when he came out, he created modern Wicca. So modern Wicca is not ancient. It's created by this, you know, greasy old dude that wanted to spank naked women's butts in the. Out in the woods. And that's exactly what he did. Like, so he created his own little call where he could have a bunch of nude, nude women around for the full moon ceremony. So I think that. Yeah, exactly. I think that people like Oprah have figured out that religion is just from a practical perspective, a very good grift. But also Oprah, you know, it's very connected to a lot of these elite people. You know, look at the John of God stuff, if you remember that.
- [35:59]
C
I don't know what that is.
- [36:01]
D
Oh, so John of God was that guy that was doing, like, breeding and he was a faith healer, but he was a con man. And Oprah did a lot of specials on him and his, you know, powerful mystical practices and how he could heal people. Heal people. And then it got busted. It was a big human trafficking operation. So they tried to scrub that, I guess John of God, you can look, right?
- [36:23]
C
Okay. I guess what I saw it as like, oh, you're creating anarchists. That's what this movement has done. People who hate their government, who hate, you know, they think everything's racist. They think they're the only. I didn't understand that until I saw shirts at Target that said spiritual gangster. And I was like, oh, well, it's.
- [36:43]
D
Funny you said that because I did a podcast recently on Joseph Conrad's novel Secret Agent, which is one of the first British intelligence novels. Well, it's one of the first novels about British intelligence or intelligence operations in the modern world. Modern, modern English. There's an older one about the revolutionary period. I forget the name of it, but it's the second one about, you know, espionage. And in that book, the, the anarchist group, the anarchist collective is essentially a cut out, fake group that's run by counterintelligence. So I think, I think you're on the right track.
- [37:19]
C
Okay, so what you've done in your life's work is take a lot of movements and you're able to see who the power structures are. And in doing all of this for your whole life, you've landed on orthodoxy as what you think is the truth. And I'm, I'm just so fascinated. And I don't. I could talk to you about this all day, but maybe can you come back? Because I feel like this is a game of jeopardy. Like I can, I can name anything and you can say, well, here is, here are the dark webs behind it. And that's. It's super fun. I mean, I've seen you do it with other movies, other TV shows and things like that, but maybe tell me, how do you, how do you know where to land then when it seems like there's always a bad guy behind the bad guy in these well intentioned movements?
- [38:12]
D
I mean, I got. Yeah, I guess you're you're expressing kind of one of the unending struggle, I guess everybody will struggle at times with, you know, any, any movement having corrupts people amongst the members. And I think with Christianity or the orthodox Christianity, ultimately, you know, it's decentralized. So it doesn't have a pope, it doesn't have a Vatican. And I think that's one firewall that it has kind of protect against the sort of total institutional corruption. And. But I mean, really, you know, you can never escape institutional corruption. Totally. You know, fallen human beings are always going to be doing human things. So. But I think that's one, one reason why Orthodoxy is somewhat immune to being totally taken over. But it's not just decentralized. It also has kind of a, you know, a global, it has a global communion aspect to it, even though there is a little bit of a hierarchy with bishops, but there's no super bishop like the Pope. So. But yeah, I mean, there's a lot of reasons why. I mean, I think my own background, my own life, a lot of that, I think led me to where I'm at. I won't spend a whole lot of time on all that. But, but beyond that, I would say what we also do on my channel and on my material is like, I don't just cover, you know, religious topics. We do a lot of stuff. So I, I write comedy for Sam Hyde show, I host Alex Jones show most Fridays for the last five years. We do a lot of talks where we lecture through global elite books. So we've done about 70 of those in the last 10 years. And then we also cover film, film, symbolism. My three books cover, you know, symbolism and film. And then I do have some, you know, religious debates. We debated a lot of the top Muslims and atheists and all that. So it's all of those things, I think, combine together to kind of, for me, try to get a picture of what's really going on in the world. And that's what we're after. I'm after, like, how does the word really work? Not. I don't want to be duped. I don't want to fall into, yeah, you know, tricks and scams and propaganda. I want to know how the world really works. And that's what led me down the rabbit hole of religion and geopolitics and espionage. Because that's really what makes the world go wrong.
- [40:21]
C
Yeah, well, because people who are seeking seek for the right reasons and the wrong people will come in and subvert that.
- [40:31]
D
Exactly.
- [40:32]
C
Because it's, because it's Innocent. It's an innocent search, I think, and a well intentioned search. And so do, do orthodox believe, excuse the fundamental question or the elementary question, that something can save us from these dark forces that are subverting our political and religious lives?
- [40:59]
D
Yeah, Orthodox Christianity believes that Christ is the second person of Godhead, so he is the second person of Trinity and that he came to on earth to not just teach us moral examples, but also to ontologically save us, to change our very being. And so we participate in the Divine Liturgy, which is our worship service, which was kind of typified in the Old Testament with the temple and the sacrifice and the liturgy there. We have a New Testament liturgy that's kind of the fulfillment of that. So we believe that in a weekly feeding on Christ and the Eucharist and participating in the sacraments, we think that there's a real, you know, communion with God there and that that does actually save us and prepare us for the future eschaton or the future resurrection. So we think that there's a spiritual battle going on. It's not ultimately just human power structures and machinations of, you know, intelligence agencies and government stooges. It's also a spiritual battle with, you know, the demonic realm and the angelic realm. So we're caught in between that battle. And we think that, you know, orthodox Christianity is sort of the means by which one wins that battle.
- [42:14]
C
Right. I think that anyone who follows modern politics understands that there is a demonic force at work.
- [42:20]
D
Exactly.
- [42:20]
C
And that you're not just battling, you know, partisan politics, that there's something demonic about it that's co opted. And I think we don't know what to do with that. What Jehovah's Witnesses would say is that it's gonna take a clean slate. And that's what Armageddon is, that something will come, the believers versus the non believers will be parsed out. And that is what the new system will be, that we just have to start over, that there's. And so what you're saying is that you think that. Well, what, what would you say? I don't, I don't want to summarize for you.
- [42:55]
D
Well, I would say there is an eventual end times. And so ultimately in this world, in this life, not everything will be rectified.
- [43:05]
C
Okay.
- [43:06]
D
But also I think that we, even within this life, you know, we can still have spiritual blessings and spiritual healing. All those things are reality still within this life. We don't have to wait for everything at the end of the world or whatever. And also I Think, you know, if you look at groups like Joe's witnesses, and I don't mean this in any kind of personal offense to you, that's okay, I'm not insulting you. But you know, if you look insult.
- [43:29]
C
Anything, just I just want to ask the questions and get, get somewhere that makes me feel like we're doing good work because we can't just subvert to the demons.
- [43:38]
D
Well, the reason I bring up, if you look at after Charles Taze Russell, you had judge what's his face, who was the next guy and yeah, and he created that serum because he thought the end of the world was coming. And so a lot of those groups kind of like the I don't know.
- [43:55]
C
About the death serum, they did think that the world was coming to.
- [43:58]
D
In Beth Sarum was the house that he built for David when David and these people were going to come back. It's called Beth Sarum. It's, I think it's in San Diego. And I'm saying that a lot of groups have these sort of predictions of when the end of the world would come.
- [44:13]
C
Yes.
- [44:14]
D
You see the same thing with Hal Lindsay. He wrote a book called 1988 where he said the end of the world of rapture was coming in 1988. So one of the indicators I think of like fake groups is they will have these sort of predictions of when it's going to happen and then when it doesn't happen, well, let's retool it and we'll revise it. We'll say that, you know, well, we, we didn't get this detail right or whatever. So the, the sensationalism of sort of end time stuff I think is, is not that useful for the practical living of being active in the world and just putting everything off towards the end of the world. Like we're, we're in the world, we're supposed to be active in the world, we're supposed to engage in these activities. And so I just think that a lot of the end time stuff ends up being a tool that not just dispensationalists or Christian Zionists can use, but also if you're the state and you want people inactive and controlled, well, you give them an ideology that you know, you're not supposed to be involved.
- [45:17]
C
It also can be comforting though when you see things that are so, so dark and you think that the deep state power is so insurmountable that you think I sometimes feel like this, like, well, the aliens just fix this. We can't fix it, you know, and there's comfort there that I don't think you can turn your nose up at.
- [45:40]
D
Well, I mean, yeah, you can make that argument, I guess. But also I think we have duties, you know, that we're called to, so.
- [45:47]
C
Right. It's sort of, it puts it beyond myself, like I can't do it, it's too dark. It's too, you know. And sometimes, sometimes I want to sometimes think that the aliens can do it because we cannot.
- [46:00]
D
Yeah, well, have you ever seen that? There's a great documentary that relates to that called Mirage Men. Have you heard of that?
- [46:05]
C
Yes, I have, but I haven't seen it.
- [46:08]
D
You should watch that. It's pretty fascinating on that topic. But yeah, again I think, you know, Armageddon in time stuff. It's not that I don't think there isn't end times. I just think that it's another way to sort of engineer and utilize through social engineering and psychological warfare techniques to make people inactive, to make them catatonic, to make them sort of black pilled or whatever. But again in our day most of that is really just tool towards unfaded, unfettering support for the nation state of Israel. So that's, that's really where it's focused nowadays.
- [46:42]
C
Right. So I could talk to you all day. I think, you know, your books are a great place, your channel. You know, I guess I would like a reading list to know where to go or where do you think people should start to ask questions. When you feel maybe this call to Jesus as we saw happen around the Charlie Kirk assassination and then how do you know that there's some kind of power structure that's manipulating your sincere desire to find truth?
- [47:17]
D
Yeah. Unfortunately there's no easy answers to those questions. And the other thing too is when it comes to religious engineering as some people call it, or soft power type stuff, there's not a whole lot that's actually been written on the religious side of it. So there's a lot of stuff, you know, where people dealing with history of the CIA and history of the Mossad or this kind of stuff, but there's not a whole lot of stuff dealing with how American religious institutions are utilizing co opted. So one good book that just always pops into my head that's a little more readable than David Wim Hof's 800 page book is F. Lendahl's great book Lost Hegemon. He has a great book called Full Spectrum Dominance. Both of those books touch on this subject. But I would say also, you know, people can, outside of just books like, people could go, you know, check out an Orthodox church if they want to and see if they like it, Orthodox liturgy. But my books cover film symbolism and archetypal analysis type stuff, like Jungian type stuff in Hollywood. Yeah, but what I do in my books is also the occult.
- [48:23]
C
The occult representation in Hollywood where we don't. We wouldn't otherwise know it. I mean, we know it when it's like the Exorcist, but where does it come in when we don't know it?
- [48:33]
D
Did you know the Exorcist was written, was a CIA script?
- [48:37]
C
No, I didn't.
- [48:39]
D
William Peter Blatty, that wrote that he did psychological warfare for the CIA in Vietnam. So that script was written with the sort of understanding of how to terrorize people. I'm not saying there's not demons, but I'm saying that even, even that's kind of a fascinating story. I put that in, in my third book. But, yeah, long story short is that when I in the books, I kind of list a lot of. Of reading, suggested reading type stuff. So. But yeah, we cover a lot of classics on my channel, like Tragic and Hope is a classic from Carol Quigley. We cover Brzezinski's texts. We cover Kissinger stuff, Rockefeller Books, History of the Rothschilds. Like all those kind of formative, geopolitical stuff is good to read.
- [49:23]
C
But, yeah, amazing. Okay, well, I don't know how to wrap this up. I feel like we could take any one of these things and pull the thread and maybe we should do that another day and I'll just sort of meditate on which ones I think. Or maybe in the chat, if you want to, you know, go down one of these rabbit holes specifically, we can do that. But I'm so glad to know you and know more about your work and your. Yes, Jim Dratres is the one. Because I, like I said, I'm a seeker and I thought that my work was political. And then the more that you study politics, the more you cannot avoid the spiritual. So I am sucked back in, and my way of seeking is to pick up the pebbles that are on my trail. Like Hansel and Gretel type stories like this book. Okay, I'll read it. And now what do I know? And then this book, and I'll, you know, that's. That's all I can do. So you are my pebble and I picked you up and now I need to keep going. So thank you. I hope you'll come back on Redacted. Jay Dyer has been our guest. You can find more about him at Jay's analysis. It's been a pleasure.
- [50:31]
D
Absolutely. It was a great conversation. He had really good questions.
- [50:34]
C
Oh, thanks. All right. We'll talk again another time.
- [50:38]
D
All right.
- [50:40]
B
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