Podcast Summary:

Podcast: Redacted News
Episode: The U.S. Covered Up Japan’s Human Experiment Labs — and Used Their Data
Hosts: Clayton and Natali Morris
Guests: Jenny Chan (Director, Pacific Atrocities Education), Kayla Jones (Producer, Deadly Science series)
Date: December 26, 2025

Overview

This episode shines a light on the largely hidden history of Japan’s Unit 731—infamous for its wartime human experimentation and bioweapons development—and the postwar American cover-up and utilization of the resulting data. Clayton Morris, joined by Jenny Chan and Kayla Jones, explores why these atrocities remain less discussed compared to Nazi war crimes, the political motives behind their omission, and the disturbing postwar dynamics that saw Unit 731’s architects protected by U.S. authorities in exchange for their “research.” The revelations carry modern implications regarding bioweapons, bioethics, and institutional transparency.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Introduction to Unit 731 and Dr. Shiro Ishii

• Location & Essence: Unit 731 operated in Manchuria during Japan’s occupation, led by Dr. Shiro Ishii, focusing on bioweapons and inhumane human experimentation.

• Context: Unlike the well-covered Nazi human experiments, Ishii’s atrocities—such as live dissections, deliberate infection of civilians, and weaponizing plague—remain obscure in Western discourse.

• Origins:

  • Ishii impressed Japan’s emperor by demonstrating a water filter (using his own urine), earning substantial funding and moving operations to a secretive facility after failed concealment in Tokyo.
  • After initial failures in Japan, the Unit grew in occupied China, notably in Pingfang near Harbin.
  • Escaped victims and exposure led to relocation and expansion.

  "When Japan occupied China in Manchuria, he saw the opportunity to really expand his lab... So he moved to an area named Pingfong...and started experimenting on a lot of human subjects."
  – Jenny Chan (04:37)

2. Gruesome Reality of the Experiments

• Methods:

  • Victims were tied to crosses and subjected to bacterial/flea bomb tests.
  • Frostbite experiments: Limbs were exposed to the elements, then dissected to study effects.
  • Live vivisections (surgeries without anesthesia) performed before distinguished guests, including members of the Japanese royal family.
  • Experiments weren't limited to local civilians; POWs—including Americans—were also victims.
  • Community involvement: Villagers were encouraged to breed rats for plague research.

  "He would have victims be out there and they would get frostbites, their limbs would freeze and he would cut their limbs open...all through very inhumane ways."
  – Jenny Chan (05:54)

  "The live vivisections and performing these surgeries in front of the emperors, the Japanese emperors, some of them were incredibly intrigued while some were disgusted."
  – Kayla Jones (07:37)

3. Why These Atrocities Are Overlooked in the West

• Media & Propaganda:

  • The focus on the Holocaust overshadows Asian and other victims, despite death counts in China (20 million+) and Russia (upwards of 20 million).
  • Efforts to discuss Imperial Japanese atrocities often result in accusations of anti-Japanese sentiment, unlike the open discussion of Nazi crimes without anti-German prejudice.
  • Modern Japanese politics are still influenced by individuals and families with wartime links.

  "When we tell the story of Mengele, we're not being accused of being anti German. Where does that propaganda come from?"
  – Clayton Morris (09:25)

  "There is still a lot of room for growth for this. And recently they elected a Prime Minister who frequently goes to visit Yasukuni Shrine...the founder of the LDP [party] was Kishi Nobusuke, who was a war criminal...his grandson is Shinzo Abe."
  – Jenny Chan (12:54)

4. U.S. Cover-Up and Complicity

• Postwar Deal:

  • After the war, Dr. Ishii and associates were granted immunity by the U.S. in exchange for their bioweapons data.
  • The CIA was instrumental in negotiating with Ishii and obtaining his research.
  • The information was considered so valuable that the U.S. paid $20 million (in 1940s dollars).

  "[The] CIA reached General Shiro Ishii, [negotiated] to get all of his data, protect him, and then continue to develop this research for the last 80 years."
  – Kayla Jones (16:34)

  "We have the documents—Jenny's provided them—in regards to the CIA purchasing this research for $20 million. That was 80 years ago."
  – Kayla Jones (20:33)

• Integration into U.S. Bioweapons Programs:

  • Ishii's knowledge was funneled into U.S. efforts, notably at Fort Detrick, where bioweapons research and gain-of-function work continued for decades.
  • U.S. authorities not only acquired data but shielded war criminals and integrated their work into American national security priorities.

  "It's crazy how then they were testing these bioweapons on American soil. And that's how Lyme disease came out from Fort Detrick as well."
  – Jenny Chan (20:59)

5. Contemporary Relevance and Bioethics

• Modern Biolabs:

  • The legacy of secrecy and ethical compromise continues, with current controversy over labs in Wuhan and Ukraine, gain-of-function research, and a lack of transparency.
  • Tulsi Gabbard's public concerns about Ukraine biolabs were cited as an example of modern echoes.

  "Our government has known this information for quite some time. They've continued to develop it. And how do we as the American public feel about that?"
  – Kayla Jones (17:31)

• Fort Detrick Outbreaks:

  • Discussion of allegations that a respiratory virus outbreak at Fort Detrick in 2019 was covered up by U.S. authorities, which ties the legacy of murky biolabs directly to today.

  "Fort Detrick did admit there was a lab break of a respiratory virus...the United States government refused to investigate that and was very comfortable pointing the fingers at China."
  – Clayton Morris (21:39)

• Corporate Connections:

  • Suggestion that major corporations like Pfizer had long, obscure histories with U.S. bioweapons development, raising questions about rapid vaccine development and transparency.

  "Pfizer has been a subcontractor for Dietrich for a very long time."
  – Jenny Chan (23:49)

6. The Broader Impact and Erasure of Victims

• Victims Ignored:

  • Victims included Chinese, Koreans, Americans, Australians, New Zealanders, Indonesians—Unit 731's crimes were wide-ranging.
  • No significant monuments or narratives commemorate these victims in Japan; Germany's postwar reconciliation stands in contrast.

  "Even our George Bush had experienced Japanese brutality, in a sense...So even our George Bush had experienced Japanese brutality, in a sense. Then why is it not more talked about?"
  – Jenny Chan (27:19)

  "This is a story that's broad and wide. It's not for racial classes. It's for all of us."
  – Clayton Morris (28:47)

• Need for Media Reform:

  • The importance of public education, curriculum reform, and responsible media coverage is underscored as vital to breaking cycles of erasure.

  "History is more than just dates and locations...It's stories, real people behind it...we need more of those international stories."
  – Kayla Jones (29:13)

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• On the U.S. Cover-Up:

  • "The United States government granted full immunity to the man who ran it, Dr. Shiro Ishii, in exchange for this research...that makes us not just a culture that hides the story but was actually complicit."
    — Clayton Morris (02:14)

• On Experimentation:

  • "He would have victims be out there and they would get frostbites, their limbs would freeze and he would cut their limbs open..."
    — Jenny Chan (05:54)

  • "The live vivisections and performing these surgeries in front of the emperors...some were incredibly intrigued while some were disgusted."
    — Kayla Jones (07:39)

• On Media Omission and Propaganda:

  • "When we tell the story of Mengele, we're not being accused of being anti German. Where does that propaganda come from?"
    — Clayton Morris (09:25)

• On Modern Ethics:

  • "Our government has known this information for quite some time. They've continued to develop it. And how do we as the American public feel about that?"
    — Kayla Jones (17:31)

Important Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|------------------------------------------------------| | 03:10 | Introduction to Unit 731 and Dr. Ishii | | 05:40 | Descriptions of gruesome experiments | | 07:30 | Impact on victims; live vivisections | | 09:25 | Discussion of Western media bias and propaganda | | 12:54 | Japanese political continuity and its dark legacy | | 16:16 | U.S. complicity: immunity for Ishii, CIA involvement | | 20:33 | Discussion of Fort Detrick and $20 million payment | | 21:39 | Modern implications: lab leaks, COVID-19 | | 23:49 | Corporate links (Pfizer and Fort Detrick) | | 27:19 | George Bush as a survivor of Japanese brutality | | 29:13 | Need for curriculum/media reform |

Tone & Final Reflections

The tone is direct, unflinching, and investigative—committed to bringing suppressed realities to light even at the risk of controversy. The hosts and guests challenge listeners to reconsider familiar narratives about World War II, bioweapons, and government transparency; they call for a more honest reckoning with difficult history and the ethical responsibilities of modern science and media.

Further Resources

• Pacific Atrocities Education (Jenny Chan): Comprehensive digital archive and survivor interviews
• Deadly Science Series (Kayla Jones): Six-part documentary on Japanese wartime experiments

“History is more than just dates and locations...it’s stories, real people behind it.”
– Kayla Jones (29:13)