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"We must prepare for war with Russia!" NATO and Europe preparing for all out war | Redacted
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- [00:00]
Google Gemini Promo Host
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- [01:54]
Natalie
It is time to wake up. On this show, we cover the stories the mainstream media won't touch. Live from the Rocky Mountains, welcome to Radio Redacted with Natalie and Clayton Morris. Are you ready? Let's get uncomfortable. Welcome everybody, to the big show. Good to see everybody here. Thank you guys so much for subscribing. Really. It's free to subscribe, by the way, on YouTube, rumble and X, we broadcast on all of those platforms. So thank you guys so much. We've got a busy show for you on this Thursday. In fact, we're Going to look at the military AI, the massive military budget, drone strikes, using AI, all of it. And also Mark Ruta, of course, the head of NATO now saying today that Europe needs to prepare for war with Russia directly.
- [02:39]
Clayton Morris
U.S. congress saying the new defense bill, you cannot withdraw troops. So we're in it, you guys, whether we want to be or not. We're going to talk to a former State Department and Marine about this. I didn't say that properly. A former Marine and State Department official about this.
- [02:55]
Natalie
You got to be really good with these, like, titles, you know, former, former Marine. But you're never really a former. You're always a Marine, you know, but then you can say former Army. I don't know. It always gets a little. It always gets a little dicey. But he's a good gu. So he won't care how we screw that up, mess that up.
- [03:10]
Clayton Morris
Well, we don't know. He's not in the room, though, to intimidate us, thankfully.
- [03:13]
Natalie
He might really hate us. He might really hate us for that. So Matthew will join us here in moments. We're also gonna talk with him about this. You know, every week we're sending millions of dollars to the Taliban. I'm sure you're probably pretty aware of this. This week, we just sent another $45 million in cash to the Taliban in Afghanistan. Friend of the show, Rob o', Neill, you know, the man who shot and killed Osama bin Laden is just wondering, for all of those who served and who fought this war for 20 years and were told that they were the greatest threat to America and all of this, how are we funding these people? And why is Congressman Tim Burchett's bill being, like, stalled in Congress? He's trying to stop us from actually funding that. So we're gonna talk to Matthew about that as well in a few moments.
- [04:00]
Clayton Morris
Plus, Canada has new censorship bills. We've been warning you about them. We're gonna get an update from David CR and the names have been named. Who are the Christian pastors who have pledged their allegiance to Israel last week in an ambassador trip? Well, the list is long. It's centered around the Southeast. You're going to want to see this. We're going to talk about what this means. Why are some denominations totally cool with this and others aren't? Is this. What does this mean? I feel like it means a lot.
- [04:28]
Natalie
So I think it does, too. And, like, a lot of our viewers were asking, like, hey, can we see this list now? The list has been published because you're going to go to church on Sunday, you're going to want to know, like, hey, was your pastor just out of town? Like, like, shilling for Israel? Which again, is a violation of what it says biblically. Like, what the heck is going on here? So maybe you have some questions for your pastors and where their loyalties are when you go to church on Sunday.
- [04:50]
Clayton Morris
And how would you feel if your pastor is a foreign agent? It doesn't ring. It doesn't sit right with me. So let us know. Before we get to all of that, though, Clayton wants to tell you about our friends over at Bearskin.
- [05:03]
Natalie
Yeah, because you guys have heard of the bearskin hoodie, right? You know how much I love it. I wear it every day when I'm walking the dog. And, well, smart people locking in their winter gear right now. My son wears it to school every day. He's got one. You can put all the different patches on the sleeve. So if you want to put an American flag patch on the side or a Don't Tread on Me patch on the side, you can do all of that big velcro spot on the side and really great patches you can put on there as well. But this thing is super tough, man. And it is like a 340gsm micro fleece, 10 pockets, clean, rugged fit. That looks awesome. I wear it in the woods when I'm walking the dog. I love it. Plus, it also zips right into that heavy storm rain jacket to become 100 waterproof when you need it. So when it turns cold, wet, and you're not scrambling last minute in Colorado here, we just got a big red flag warning right now. Super windy this afternoon, and stuff's blowing around like crazy outside. But don't worry, you'll be protected. And right now, they're offering a 60% off deal to get your hoodie early in time for Christmas. Pick one up for yourself or a loved one. You'll get free US Shipping fast delivery. And then you've locked in your winter gear already. That's a win win. So do yourself a favor. Text the word redacted to 36912 to lock in your 60% off. Again, text the wor redacted to 36912. You'll get a link sent straight to your phone so you can check it out later if you're busy right now watching our show. One more thing I should mention about our veterans. When you support Bearskin, you're also supporting the fallen outdoors and the Hope for the warriors veterans program. So you're not just buying great Gear you're backing a cause that matters. Don't wait till you're freezing to realize that your hoodie sucks. Get a bear skin. 60% off. Text the word redacted to 369.
- [06:41]
Clayton Morris
Well, Americans and Europeans, you are being dragged into war whether you want to or not. It is the perfect storm caused by bloodthirsty politicians. First off, I'm gonna explain how these things are coming at us at all angles. First, the House of Representatives passed a massive military budget worth a whopping $901 billion. That is mind boggling. Now when we started covering this on redacted in about 2021, we were freaking out that it was 700 billion, 200 billion more. Now this not only slaps the American public with more debt, it prevents it, Literally. Congress just this week added to the legislation that it would prevent the Trump administration from withdrawing troops in Europe and South Korea. Now think about that for a second. The Constitution gives Congress the power to declare war, although most American presidents skirt around those requirements. But not to wage it. Congress is using their power to prevent withdrawal from war. Is that not crazy? Right? This here's think so that this is happening at the same time. Now Margarita must have known this because the head of NATO says, all right, great. Glad the US troops can stay here. They're in it with us because we're planning for war. Watch.
- [07:59]
Mark Ruta (NATO Head)
Conflict is at our door.
- [08:02]
Captain Matthew Ho
Russia has brought war back to Europe and we must be prepared for the scale of war our grandparents and great grandparents endured. Imagine it, a conflict reaching every home.
- [08:17]
Natalie
Yeah, right. Russia, you're a bald faced liar. You a hole, right? Forget the fact that the CIA and their, you know, and their Maidan proxy war that launched in back. Well it started under Obama in 27, 2007, but really 2014, of course. So but Russia brought war back to Europe. What about the genocide that you were carrying out against the people in eastern Ukraine, which is now part of Russia? Killing civilians on a regular basis, killing children on the way to the park. But it was Russia's fault, of course.
- [08:46]
Clayton Morris
Whereas just this week President Putin says, we laugh when they say that we really don't want a tango with you. It's like someone super unattractive saying, they just won't leave me alone. They're obsessed with me. So.
- [08:59]
Philip
Well, just wanna chime in like with Marcus saying like, no, we're glad that the troops can't leave. Like did we just shanghai our military? Like what they like now we can't pull them out. So they give, they just, they have no choice but to stay in Europe and fight, it would seem.
- [09:14]
Clayton Morris
That's what it seems like to me.
- [09:15]
Natalie
So you're gonna have to stay in Poland and get some pierogies for Christmas. You have no choice, right?
- [09:20]
Pastor Jay Chase Davis
Yeah.
- [09:20]
Clayton Morris
Okay. Will this new war, though, be a ground war or will it be a digital war? It's interesting question right now because this week the Pentagon announced Genai. Here's the announcement. I'm not going to play with the video. You can see it if you want. Now, why would a military its own AI platform? The answer may be, and I want to get an expert on this, but where my brain goes is that normal. AI won't let you tell lies to go into war. It won't let you kill civilians. It won't let you target. Right. And so maybe the military needs a murder bot that will say, sure, I'll kill that person. Yep, I'll do it. We'll fire on civilians. We don't. We don't know if they're civilians. So. Okay. So here to bring in on all of this is someone who understands the military better than us, Captain Matthew Ho, former Marine captain and State Department official. Thank you so much for joining us. Where do you want to start? Does it seem crazy now that US Congress has said these troops have to stay there, no withdrawal at the same time? NATO says great party time. War time.
- [10:25]
Pastor Jay Chase Davis
Right.
- [10:25]
Captain Matthew Ho
Well, thank you for having me join you, Natalie and Clayton. I appreciate being here. No, it makes sense. It makes sense for the war state. Right. It makes sense for the idea of the American empire and the inertia that comes, particularly since the end of the Second World War, for the United States always having to be in a state of war. Right. Always to be an emergency situation, whether it's a cold war, whether it's the global war on terror. And now, of course, whether it's, you want the villains to be Russia, you want the villains to be Iran, want the villains to be China. I would note that in addition to this NDAA blocking the removing of troops from South Korea and Europe, it also orders the Department of Defense to increase action against China. Specifically, it mandates that the Department of Defense to the Navy will increase its patrols through the Straits of Taiwan and into the South China Sea. So upping the provocation with China. So this, this desire for war, and whether it comes from just an imperial culture or whether it comes just from the good, the good things that come from being on the Christmas card list for the military industrial complex, we can see that throughout this $900 billion authorization.
- [11:51]
Natalie
Can I ask you sort of an maybe esoteric question, I guess, but founding fathers, like, it's like how did we get here? I mean, it's kind of a, it's kind of a nebulous question. But even Thomas Massie posted just yesterday, he was a guest on the show yesterday, but he just posted about how George Washington opposed all of this, right? This is like, goes back, he posted this quote from George Washington, why quit our own to stand upon foreign ground? Why by interweaving our destiny with that of any part of Europe, entangle our peace and our prosperity in the toils of European ambition, rivalship, interest, humor or caprice? How do we come so far away from that?
- [12:29]
Captain Matthew Ho
I think it's what the founders understood, that these sorts of things, you know, imperial adventures, wars, being in command of large standing armies, it's intoxicating, right? This goes to like what Fyodor Dostoevsky says about how blood and power are intoxicating. Or you know, you can refer to say Senator William Fulbright who says, you know, of essentially the American government in the 1960s during the Vietnam War, that, you know, power confuses itself with virtue, right? I mean, so there is a self righteousness that is imbued in these men and women through the power that they sit on top of. And then, you know, iteration after iteration, conditioning upon conditioning, inculcation on inculcation. About America as the white knight, right? Or about the need for America to be the world's police. This idea that we are always in some type of Manichean struggle versus good and evil. I mean, how many times in our lifetimes have we been referred to the new Hitler that we have to wage war against, right? I mean, so it's structured in such a way that there's a morality behind it and that morality is essentially good politics. It doesn't just let you wave the bloody flag, as they said at the end of the 19th century, but also allows you to suppress any type of dissent. Because people like you guys, myself, I imagine most of the folks are watching. We're unpatriotic, right? We know that's not true, but that's the way it's phrased as. And then of course, you have the inertia, you have the Leviathan that is the military industrial complex that is financing all this and that stands to benefit, you know, again, as we could see that throughout the 3,000 plus pages of the NDAA.
- [14:17]
Clayton Morris
Now, Pete Heck said this week, this weekend, he romanticized the Reagan era, great military buildup and says that he wants to oversee something similar right now under the Trump administration. It stands to reason then that if there is a war with China on the horizon and we cannot withdraw existing troops from other conflicts, that that's what we would need. Even though I think it was the New York Times this week that also published assessments from military personnel saying we can't win it. There's just every trick up our sleeves the Chinese could anticipate and thwart. So what do you make of that reporting?
- [15:01]
Captain Matthew Ho
Well, that reporting is absolutely accurate, Natalie. We wouldn't win in a war against China. One just comparison wise, you're talking about the world's largest manufacturing power in the world. Their ability to produce, whether it's technological or whether it's just, you know, metal, steel and iron is magnitudes of order not just beyond the United States, but beyond the United States and our allies. But more importantly, this is something that you hear very few commentators speaking about. The United States is losing when it fights wars. And I'm not just talking specifically about Iraq and Afghanistan, but look at the performance of the United States Navy against the Houthis in the Red Sea. Under both the Biden administration and the Trump administration, the American Navy essentially had to retreat. We had to strike a deal with the Houthis against the Iranians. Donald Trump, you know, in my estimation and many others, had a stage of stunt flying in those B2s, dropping in 14 massive ordinary penetrators claiming to destroy the nuclear labs there. You know, essentially because the Israelis and the Americans were running out of missiles to shoot down the Iranian missiles. And then most damningly, and I think the one that is spoken about the least, and you can understand why it's not talked about here in the United States, is the fact that the Ukraine war, which is an American NATO proxy war, has been commanded by American generals. You know, and as the New York Times laid out so well last spring, the American generals were the ones commanding the Ukrainian army for the first few years of this war. I'm not sure if it's still the case, if they're still doing that out of Wiesbaden, Germany or not. But in at least in the first few years of the war, including that disastrous 2023 offensive by the Ukrainian army, it was the American generals who were ordering, who were commanding, who were planning the big arrow movements of the Ukrainian army. And so who were the American generals fighting against at that point? They were fighting against the Russian generals. And anyone who's looking at this objectively with any degree of honesty will say the Russian generals Defeated the American generals on the battlefields of Ukraine.
- [17:14]
Clayton Morris
Isn't it upsetting, though? You can ask the next question. If I could just respond that. To see Mark Ruta saying, like, the peace that we've known is over. We gotta be brave like our grandparents. And my response to that is a middle finger. That's just. It's so upsetting. You don't get to say, because you've not been honest about anything. Go ahead, just.
- [17:34]
Natalie
No, I was gonna ask you. I was gonna ask you basically the same question about Mark ruta and what NATO's plan here is, which, you know, you have Congressman Massie, Senator Mike Lee, pushing forward this legislation to get us the hell out of NATO, which, as Colonel Douglas MacGregor has said on our show many times, is a Cold War relic. It's going to collapse. It's all but inevitable. So then this NATO proxy war, how can it stand? How can it continue? I mean, we're seeing the. And how can we tolerate this? I mean, the American people are fed up. They don't want this. If you ask the average American, do you want us spread thin around the world carrying out these proxy wars? Overwhelmingly, all these Trump voters are gonna say, absolutely not. We don't want this. And yet it continues at scale.
- [18:17]
Captain Matthew Ho
Right. I mean, that's because Washington, D.C. is so distanced, so fenced off or fortified from the American people, particularly when it comes to issues of war and peace. What happens in the second half of the Obama administration is this pulling away from ever committing American ground forces that would sustain casualties and numbers that would have a political consequence. Right. So you go back to the political consequences of the Iraq war in 06 08, even in 2016, a lot of data out there supports the idea that 2016 was a referendum still on the Iraq war. Right. And the administrations know this now. That's why you see American war fighting over the last dozen or so years essentially being proxy wars or being hidden wars carried out by drones and commandos, all classified operations, or utilizing contractors and mercenaries, or using hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians to throw into a furnace of war. So I think that's the way the American leadership looks at this. And then again, there's the inertia behind this, Right. The military industrial complex. And so we see a racket that is something that, why would you not take part in? There's no. The only thing that's gonna come from not participating in that racket is for you to be on the outs. And so I think that's what we're looking at. Here when we see the various reasons why there are support for these wars among political leaders, including those in Europe whose whole identity is based upon this war. I mean the European leadership on this, there is just a grotesque display of ignoring their own problems at home. Europe continent wide has issues with housing, energy costs, immigration, quality of life, wealth inequality, you know, de industrialization, you know, etc. And the European leaders that makes these people think that their identity and their political future depends upon war and militarism. And this is what you get. And then you get where this is propelled over years. There's no way to back out of this. You know, essentially they put themselves into a corner and so as we're watching here, you know, the, the E3 there, Macron and Mertz and, and Starmer. How can they back away from this war where for years they've told these, their people that this is existential, that if we don't defeat the Russians in Ukraine, then Warsaw is next, followed by Berlin, then Paris, then they're going to cross the channel. I mean, so this is what you're dealing with here. A mindset that is informed by many different things, but none of which are in the interests of their people.
- [21:06]
Natalie
Yeah. And on top of that then you've got the censorship. So then they're not able to get the proper information about all of this. Their, their, their energy costs are skyrocketing, they're shutting down nuclear power plants there. People are living, I mean in horrible situations right now across Europe. And then the propaganda machine and then the AI piece of all of this.
- [21:24]
Clayton Morris
Yeah, I do want to ask you about the AI piece piece because what do you make of that? Now maybe I'm being cynical, but my take on that is oh, they need a war bot basically because the consumer based AI as biased as they are, will still not let you. Like I tried to have this exercise of like, hey, you know, can we start a war based on WMDs? And it doesn't let me. If I tried to get my AI to say can I start a war with Iran based on hypothetical nuke and it won't let me. So you know, I think this is my cynical take on it that, that they need something to work around because so many wars are sold on lies and propaganda. But what am I missing here? Maybe there's a benevolent reason and I'm just being cynical. What do you think?
- [22:10]
Captain Matthew Ho
No, no, no, absolutely not. Natalie, I'm sorry to say that the, and I think it's worse than that. And what hegseth was Talking about here was a, a platform that go on military desktops around the world, just as we use ChatGPT or OpenAI or Claude or Gemini or whatever. This is a secure version for the Pentagon and the military services that doesn't allow information to get out, essentially because we all know that AI takes as much information from us as it gives us, right? So the military needs something that would be sealed, that would only essentially be one way in, not one way out. Now, the problem with that, to get to the point you were getting to Natalie, is that who controls the AI? And this is the two main things I see this reliance on AI or the future reliance on AI going towards. And Heg said yesterday or the day before that you spell the future of war with two letters. AI are two things. One, a continuation of the outsourcing or privatization of war. So who ultimately owns these AI platforms and then who informs them and who gives them its algorithm and its programming and essentially its orders on how to answer questions. I've been coming across this more and more as I do my work, as I do my research and I got into it with Chat GPT today regarding what are reliable and reputable news organizations. And you can imagine the response I got from Chat GPT about that smoke start coming out of the machines is this, is, this is really important, right? You know that the answer gave me was that it relies, at the end of the day, it defers its programming, tells it to defer to institutional structures as opposed to historical accuracy. So you know, internally, are you going to have AI programs that are not going to give honest, candid, objective information to members of the military, but it's going to give it, give them information that is based upon narratives that the Pentagon itself wants or maybe the manufacturers of these programs want. The other thing about this is there's always this idea that as technology advances, the military becomes more accurate and so less harm is done to civilians. This is a great myth. I mean one of the greatest great myths about precision guided munitions, right? So laser guided bombs or GPS guided bombs is that they were invented in order to, to not have as many civilian casualties.
- [24:46]
Clayton Morris
It's a precision paradox, right?
- [24:49]
Natalie
It's the.
- [24:50]
Captain Matthew Ho
Well, the. I know it was. There was no purpose in preventing civilian casualties. The purpose was to make the weapons more efficient. So we had to drop less bombs to say, blow up a bridge where you, when you had an unguided bombing system, it might take you 10, 15, 20 bombs to hit a, a bridge. But when you bring in a laser guided bomb, you only need one bomb to right. You know, that's the idea behind it is efficiency. You even see it in things now there's a weapon out there. If people read the reporting coming out of the genocide in Gaza, Israelis use a bomb a lot of times called the small diameter bomb. And in conversations in the US and Washington D.C. they will tell you the idea. The small diameter bomb was meant to limit collateral damage, mean limit killing men, women and children who are in combatants. That's not the reason. The small diameter bomb is exactly what it says. It's a small diameter, which means that you can get more of these onto an airplane and drop more of them. That's the whole purpose in the small diamond bomb. It's not meant to limit collateral damage or to limit civilian casualties. Oh my gosh. And what you see then though is where does this technology go? When you start talking about AI, you just have Voldemort Zelensky talking about how dangerous the AI advances in, in the Ukraine war are. You know, a sense of the autonomy that we've seen coming through in some of the drone systems. The Russians have some AI drones that operate on their own essentially this way. This way they can't be jammed. You know, it's one of the reasons. But also too, they take off with orders put in of what they're going to go look for, what they're going to find. But what we've really seen, the inhumanity, the dystopian nature of AI is through the Israeli system systems. So in, in Gaza, you've seen that Israelis utilize three separate AI programs, Lavender Gospel and Where's Daddy. All these are incredibly nefarious and insidious, and I encourage people who are not familiar with them to look them up, particularly the reporting that came out of the Israeli media on this +972 magazine. But just example, Lavender is a program that scans the Internet, scans social media, whatever databases it can get into, and it identifies targets. So because you know, Clayton, you clicked on something on Facebook three years ago that may mean that you're a Hamas supporter based upon the parameters of the Lavender program. And then what it does is it connects that Lavender program then connects to a program called Where's Daddy? And Where's Daddy was a program that ensured that the Israeli drones and the Israeli warplanes were hitting Palestinian resistance fighters, not when they were away from their families, but when they were with their families. So the Where's Daddy? AI program would track the targets that Lavender would identify, and then it would tell the Israeli warplanes or The Israeli drones when to drop their bombs, when they fire their missiles based upon when those resistance fighters were at home with their families.
- [27:41]
Natalie
I mean, this was shocking. And you're so friend of the show, Tucker. Carl Nelson just kind of did a report on this today, too. I encourage people to watch it, to go more deeply into what Matthew's talking about here, which is crazy that they had to track men and then bomb them when they're with their children, not when they're without their children. Right. I mean, you can't get more demonic than that.
- [28:04]
Captain Matthew Ho
And if anybody thinks that an American AI system is somehow going to be any more benevolent, less dystopian. Right. Any less criminal or immoral, I don't know what to tell you.
- [28:17]
Natalie
Even Ambassador Huckabee today, I don't know if you saw this, Matthew. I'm sure you did. Said Israel did not attack Qatar. They just sent a missile into their country aimed at one person. And unfortunately, he says, quoting him now, there were some people who were nearby that missile strike that were injured or killed from it. So they didn't attack Qatar. They just sent a missile there. Like, you know, like Santa would send presents to a kid, I guess.
- [28:45]
Captain Matthew Ho
Right. This is the, the way that people justify themselves, the way that these war crimes, these atrocities are, are apologized for. It's, it, it's what allows the warfare to continue, you know, so swimmingly. I, I, I'm reminded of what George Orwell said about the war in Spain in which he took part of in the 1930s, and that was really the first war where aircraft were used in a modern manner. And Orwell took heart in that. Right. In the sense that maybe this means that those who are allowed as cheerleaders for wars, those who believe in the war the most, those who support the war the most, or who make apologies for, like a guy like Huckabee, maybe, because now these planes are able to bomb something 200 miles from the front lines. Maybe that means these cheerleaders for war, if they get some holes put in them, they'll be less supportive of the wars. You know, you know that that's the type of thinking that, that we have to, to go to is how do we make people who benefit from the wars feel the cost from the wars? And I'm not talking about blowing up Mike Huckabee or anything like that, but in the general sense of how do we make that costs of war be felt, not just from the people on the ground who are enduring this, but among the ruling classes that benefit from it.
- [30:09]
Mark Ruta (NATO Head)
Yeah.
- [30:09]
Natalie
And then you. Well, we're gonna take a break here in a second, Matthew, and sort of reset and come back. I wanna talk to you about the Taliban funding. But yeah, I mean, you have these drone strike operators that like, you know, they're in Oklahoma and they're like kids out of college and it's the highest rate of a suicides. Cause these kids are like sitting in these like little trailers just like bombing children in the middle of nowhere and they end up killing themselves. It's horrible.
- [30:33]
Shopify/Shipstation Advertiser
Horrible.
- [30:34]
Natalie
Anyway, Captain Matthew Hode, thank you so much for being here. We're going to take a quick break. We'd love you to stick around. I want to talk to you about this Taliban funding which continues. $45 million just sent to the Taliban in Afghanistan. So we're going to do that. And we're also going to talk about Canada's censorship laws coming up in a second here. But first, let's get some water, take a little break and talk about our friends over at Mizzen and Maine because, oh my gosh, they make classic menswear with performance fabric. So it's effortless to look sharp and feel great. Mizzen and Main actually invented the performance fabric dress shirt over 10 years ago and since then they've perfected it with modern fabrics. Mizzen and mane shirts and pants look refined and yet they're stretchy, lightweight, moisture wicking, wrinkle resistant and completely machine washable. No ironing, no dry cleaning. When you put their clothes on, you really do feel the difference instantly. Right now I'm wearing one of their performance shirts right now. I love this. I'm telling you, I've. Back when I was at Fox News, I had to wear all these like really uncomfortable dress shirts for years. I hated wearing that stuff. It was so uncomfortable and yeah, it was just, it was horrible. This is honestly the most comfortable shirt I've ever worn from a button down perspective. I've been wearing for Christmas stuff. Wore it to Thanksgiving. I love their stuff, I really do. Traveling, giving speeches, all of it. It's just so nice and comfortable. It doesn't feel tight on your body. It stretches. No ironing. You can throw it in your suitcase if you have to go travel for work or something, give a speech, whatever it is, you take it out of your suitcase. You don't have to worry about wrinkles, playing golf, all of it. So check them out right now for the holidays, Mizzen and Main.com listeners get 20% off your first purchase. Just use that promo code redacted20 and it's you know it's fantastic. By the way this is a vet veteran led organization committed to supporting those who've served. They offer a year round military discount they proudly give back to veterans organizations. It's and this is a vehemently anti war company by the way mizzeninmain.com support our veterans and support those who protect us. Go to mizzeninmain.com listeners get 20% off use that code redacted 20 thank you to Mizzen and Main for supporting a an anti war show like redacted. We really appreciate it so always great to have in alignment there. I really appreciate that. Always. It makes me tickles my heart because that's not the kind of crap you'd see on FOX News Channel for you know I'm just telling you right now like back in the day, you know, like this, this episode brought to you by Lockheed Martin. We're gonna, you know, awful stuff. Anyway, let's talk about this now. Representative Tim Burch it exposing that his bill banning taxpayer dollars from going to the Taliban just I can't even believe I just said that out loud. He has a bill that is trying to prevent your tax dollars from going to the Taliban in Afghanistan. It's being blocked in Congress because of a Senate staffer who had his security clearance denied by Tulsi Gabbard due to his relationship with the Taliban. I'm not making this up. Watch.
- [33:37]
Pastor Jay Chase Davis
Hey everybody.
- [33:38]
Mark Ruta (NATO Head)
Tim Burchett, as you know as I've been championing the cause to quit paying the dead gum Taliban 40 million or 45 million whatever is a week. We've given them over $5 billion total since the Biden administration. Every week, every week. We can't stop the bill. We can't when we can't get the bill passed in the Senate. It's taken me over a year to get it out of the dadgum house. And we got a fellow over in the Senate who was a staffer but he was the former I believe ambassador to Afghanistan and his name is what Tom west. And apparently our good friend Tulsi Gabbard and the Trump administration denied him his security clearance because of his alleged cozy relationship with the Taliban. And so I suspect that's what's going on in the Senate. That's why they're stopping the bill. And people say, well y' all are in the majority. Why don't you just act like it? Well, you got to have 60 votes over there to pass a bill of this significance. And that's the hold up. And we're going to continue to see this kind of nonsense until the country wakes up. And I don't care what party you're in, we shouldn't be paying these people any money. They will hate us for free. All they're going to do is use that money to come at us in a different area and kill Americans and kill our allies. Dadgummit. This is what's going on. I'm letting you know about it. You can make the call. Call your senator if you've got a Democrat senator. This is beyond that. This is actual, in my opinion, corruption. We know this money flows around. We know, you know, Elon Musk told us about it flowing into dark money campaigns. And I think some of this money, I'm not sure if this is or some of the other, but surely it's flowing back into the pockets of politicians in Washington.
- [35:28]
Natalie
Of course it is. Of course it is. Congressman Burchett, thank you so much for that. Taliban 45 million arrived in Afghanistan once again, cash. 40 million, like 40 million a week going to the Taliban. Friend of the show Rob o' Neill posted this. He said as his taxpayer and a dude who fought and killed this nation's enemies. Quick question. Why the F did we give the Taliban 45 million in cash today? Seriously, Anyone have to have an answer. Captain Matthew Ho is with us today. He served as a State Department official in Afghanistan. And in 2009, I believe you resigned in protest of the escalation over this war. I mean, where do you come down on this, captain? I mean, $45 million a week in cash deliveries and we can't do anything about it to stop it.
- [36:19]
Captain Matthew Ho
And this is a opaque issue. For the last four years or so, the Biden administration pointed fingers at the United Nation. The Trump campaign pointed fingers at the Biden administration. And now you have members of Congress pointing fingers at the Trump administration and a Trump administration not saying anything. So I don't think anyone out there really understands what's happening. To complicate it is that in this latest report, it came from a guy in Afghanistan named Amarul Saleh, who was the Afghan vice president and also head of their intelligence service. Incredibly corrupt. I wouldn't believe a word, anything that Saleh ever said. So what you have here is you have a lot of finger pointing and not a lot of surety as to what's occurring. What we do know is for sure, and you know, Clayton, I appreciate you guys describing yourselves as an anti war show is that we're in this position and the people of Afghanistan are in this position because of the war in Afghanistan. You know, when you talk about $45 million a week, that's nothing compared to the $300 million a day the United States spent on the war in Afghanistan from 2001 to 2021. Right. I mean, and what did that war bring? That war brought the Taliban back into power. And so this conversation about whether or not it's right to fund a party in power in order to try and provide humanitarian assistance to the people, it certainly is an exercise that should be done. But the larger policy questions of how did we get to this point and why are we even having this conversation are all ignoring the bigger issue of the war in Afghanistan. Why did we fight it? What did we get out of it? Who profited from it? We certainly know who lost from it. You know, veterans of the war, families of veterans of the war, and 30 million people in Afghanistan. But, you know, so, you know, I appreciate the conversation. I just would hope that it would focus more into the policy reasons, the reality of the war, and the decisions that were made that put us in this position.
- [38:24]
Clayton Morris
But a lot of these programs, and we see it in the new defense budget, which is over 900 billion, is there's a lot of money for now, Balkan states, to sort of arm people that we want to pay to be our friends because we think that that will help bolster us against Russia. That's a crazy idea. And if you read any of the work of Michael Scheuer, former CIA analyst, he said that we knew, the intelligence community knew for sure from the Reagan years that we could not win a war in Afghanistan because the Soviets couldn't. And so.
- [39:00]
Natalie
So we are in the mujahideen. Right.
- [39:01]
Clayton Morris
So this idea of just like, going around the schoolyard and trying to pay off allies, it doesn't work. How come? And it costs lives. I guess it's an obvious question. Why don't we learn from that?
- [39:16]
Natalie
And then we go to war 20 years later with those same, very same people that we armed to 20 years before? It seems like history repeats itself over and over. Right, Right.
- [39:24]
Captain Matthew Ho
I remember the day after 9, 11, eating at a waffle House with a buddy of mine in the Marine Corps, and we spoke about how the 9, 11 attacks. And we. I remember both Jimmy and I saying how this won't be anything that concerns the conventional Marine Corps because we have both read, you know, a book called the Bear Went over the Mountain, which was about the Soviet Army's experience in Afghanistan. You know, we certainly had gone through, through classes and had lectures in the Marine Corps about the Soviet experience in Afghanistan. The folly of that. Right. You know, and there's no way that we're going to do that. And sure enough, we did that and we did Iraq as well. Right. I mean, so this idea of learning the lessons that are learned are the ones that are, you know, sort of, as I described earlier, to hide the wars, to outsource them. Right. To somehow make them profitable and have no costs attached to them, them, you know, to, to make it so that everyone's interests are being met and those who are affected by it, those who have to deal with the consequence of it, have no voice. And, you know, I mean, so the idea that the lessons learned, they understand this, they realize this, they. That. But what they do is they try and be smarter about it, or they try and manipulate it, or they try and hide it so that the next iteration of these wars don't have consequences at the ballot box, which is the only thing they really care about.
- [40:48]
Natalie
Can you maybe expand on that, which is. I was going to ask you, where are certain blind spots right now? Natalie mentioned the Balkans and arming individuals there. Of course, when I look at history repeating itself with what we did in Afghanistan, what we've done in Iraq, what we've done in Vietnam, what we've done last hundred years, where are we currently doing that and where should we be concerned as Americans and try to call that out? Venezuela. Well, certainly.
- [41:13]
Captain Matthew Ho
Yeah, right, Clayton. I mean, certainly Venezuela is the topic of the day. And the idea of Venezuela being the first phase of a larger campaign or operation to regain control of the hemisphere, as the administration would describe it, the idea that the Western hemisphere is our sphere, our sphere of influence, and that we have let it go and that we need to regain it, it infuriates both parties in Washington, D.C. when they look at a map of the Americas and they see that most trading part, the. The trading partner for most, or the largest trading partner, excuse me, for most of Central and South American countries, is China, as well as the fact that you have a nation, whether it be Venezuela, whether it be Colombia, whether it be Nicaragua, Cuba, etc, that doesn't bow down, doesn't fall in line with the empire, plus all the resources through the region, you know, and so this idea of the United States entering into a multipolar world, the correct, I think the correct view by the Trump administration, that we can no longer be the world's sole superpower, that we cannot be the only hegemon, have primacy Et cetera, that we have to consolidate, we have to recenter the empire. And the way you do that is by focusing on what's in our sphere of influence. I don't agree with it, but at least there's some method to the madness. Now, whether or not they will contain themselves to that. It was only a month or so ago that Donald Trump was talking about going to war in Nigeria. I mean, as well as then, you continually have the Middle east, the commitments of the United States to Israel and what that pans out as you know, in a sense of, you know, the United States waged war in the last year against, or the last two years against Iraq, against Yemen and against Iran, all for the purposes of Israel, as well as other American imperial requirements or obligations. Certainly you have issues in, you know, Europe, you know, and then of course the biggest one, the one I think the war that is most wanted for some insane reason, but if you were to take a poll in Washington D.C. i think this would come up atop is a war with China. And as we said before, you have the Congress putting into the NDAA that hey, we need to provoke China further. We need to send more ships into the Taiwan Straits, more ships into the South China Sea in order to provoke a confrontation with the Chinese.
- [43:47]
Clayton Morris
Do you think that the. I don't mean to. I'm sorry to interrupt. Do you think that the purpose of, of going to war with China would be to implode their relationships, their ability to expand, like we could just blow them up from the center and then we don't have to compete with them in Africa and South America and other places?
- [44:09]
Captain Matthew Ho
I think the purpose of going to war with China is simply because the United States has no other idea of how to handle its relationships with other nations. It's an empire that we were an empire that, that comes about through violence. Whether it's a continental empire, we subjugate, where we commit genocide against the indigenous people here, Right. And then within what, two years of the last native American tribe subjugated by the American government, there's a coup in Hawaii. So the entire American empire was built upon a militarist and violent expansion across the globe. And then it's certainly after World War II, we are the world's one of two empires, us in the Soviet Union and again the consequence of war. And then over this last year, over the last 30 years, since the end of the Cold War, the way that we have maintained power is through violence. The way that we have maintained our position or tried to maintain our position in the world is through violence, whether it be military, through invasion, occupation, coups, proxy wars, or through economic warfare. We all know the cost of these sanctions on the people. I mean, the cost to the Iraqi people. A half million dead Iraqis from the George H.W. bush, Bill Clinton sanctions prior to the 2003 invasion. I mean, so that is the one tool that the United States seems to have in its toolkit. And it's the reason why we are a failing empire, why we are a declining empire. Empire while we watch nations like China or organizations like the brics shoot right past us because they understand the way to engage with the world and the age to thrive. And ultimately, in the Chinese case, probably dominate the world is through economic cooperation, is through building these relationships that are not predicated upon military power. You know, there's a.
- [46:04]
Natalie
It's.
- [46:05]
Captain Matthew Ho
Now, I don't know if it's apocryphal or what, but there's a saying attributed to an African minister that when you speak with the Americans, you get a lecture and then you get drones and commandos. When you speak with the Chinese, you have a conversation and then you get ports and railroads and bridges, et cetera.
- [46:24]
Natalie
Right, right. You get ports in your backyard, in your hemisphere. AI driven ports, by the way, with no human beings far more advanced, you get. Get hypersonic missiles, everything else. What a disaster we're walking into. Slow walking. It's like, you know, someone needs to read like Jared Diamond's book Collapse just to see how these empires fall and just no one cares to read them. People should pay attention to what you guys are doing right over at the Eisenhower Media Institute as well, because, I mean, you know, President Eisenhower warned us all when he warned us about the, you know, the Beware the military industrial complex and the rise of it. I mean, you can tell. Wrap this up here, Matthew, with this sort of thought. But he was already admitting defeat in a lot of ways, wasn't he? I mean, he was already sort of saying it had. Already, that ship had already sailed in many, many ways.
- [47:17]
Captain Matthew Ho
And he was taught President Eisenhower was talking about a recent phenomenon. When you go back and read his farewell address, he talks about how this had not occurred prior to the end of World War II, how in American history the American war industry would shut down following the wars. And now you had a war industry that was established and enabled by a permanent war economy, not just a commercial economy, but a political economy. And this is where Dwight Eisenhower talks about how this military industrial complex has control, political control, economic control and, and spiritual control at federal State and local levels. And I think looking back, you understand this. The scale, if we can go back, if I have time to go back one minute, back to the defense budget and the scale of this. When we say the Pentagon budget is $901 billion, that's leaving out an awful lot. For one thing, there was a supplemental passed by the Congress last spring that added $150 billion to the defense defense bill, including over $100 billion for FY 2026, which means that the actual Pentagon budget for 2026 will be over $1 trillion. But that leaves out a heck of a lot as well. It leaves out tens of billions of dollars that goes to the State Department for military assistance to foreign countries, as well as to facilitate weapons sales to foreign countries. But the big money comes in two areas where it misses out. One is for veterans. This year or in 2026, the veterans budget will be $440 billion, right? So that's what you're paying for men and women like myself, for our health care, our disability pensions, our benefits, et cetera, all the consequences of political decisions to go to war, right? So this idea that these wars don't ever end, you know, it has. There's an economic component to it as well. The other aspect about how these decisions don't end is in the interest in debt payments on past wars and military spending, right? So from 2001 to 2021, at the time of the retreat from Afghanistan by the US Government, by the American government, the United States had already spent a trillion dollars in interest and debt payments on the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. So for those 20 years, we spent a trillion dollars in debt payments to finance those wars. That number is going to reach $2 trillion by 2030. That's just for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. When you bring in the larger Pentagon budget over these decades, the estimate is that we spend annually, every year, the United States Federal government spends $300 billion on interest payments for past wars and Pentagon spending. So when you put this all together, the PENTAGON Budget's not $900 billion. It's about $1.7 trillion. And of course, the opportunity costs, as you all can understand, right? I mean, any question that comes up in our country about what are we going to do about health care, what do we do about education, what we do about infrastructure, whatever it is, the answer always comes back, it's too expensive. We can't afford it. What are we going to do about this $37 trillion in debt? It's too expensive. We can't do anything about it. Just have to continue to pile up. So the opportunity costs are massive, massive for the American people. And we'll give you one example to close out here on. You know, if you go back to the Biden administration, they had a plan to make sure that we weren't drinking water out of lead pipes in this country anymore. Right. And that was going to cost about $30 billion. And the Biden administration, the Congress said $30 billion is too much to spend to make sure that Americans aren't going to get lead poisoning.
- [51:07]
Natalie
Right.
- [51:07]
Captain Matthew Ho
What did it cost the last two years to enable, support, supply, and defend Israel's genocide? $30 billion.
- [51:17]
Clayton Morris
Yeah, exactly.
- [51:18]
Captain Matthew Ho
So our American leadership is okay with Americans at the risk of lead poisoning, but the idea of not funding Israel's genocide is something that they would never, ever contemplate.
- [51:31]
Natalie
Yeah.
- [51:32]
Captain Matthew Ho
Yeah.
- [51:33]
Natalie
And we serve French toast sticks to children in our school lunch program in the United States. So, I mean, we really care about Americans in America right now. You know, just, I guess we should all move to Israel and then we'd get that support that we all need. Oh, man. Captain Matthew Ho. Great to see you. Great to talk to you again. I think. I think you and I spoke maybe more than a decade ago or so back when I was still doing Fox, Fox and Friends. But great to have you here. Great to be able to be unshackled and talk about all of these things. Rally, our chat room loves you. So thank you so much for your honesty. We'd love to have you back on when your schedule allows it. And if we don't get to see you before then, have a merry Christmas.
- [52:11]
Captain Matthew Ho
All right. Thank you as well. And I really appreciate what you all are doing and. Yeah, and Merry Christmas to you and happy holidays to everyone watching, watching.
- [52:19]
Natalie
Thanks so much, Captain. Great to see you.
- [52:21]
Captain Matthew Ho
Bye bye.
- [52:22]
Natalie
Cheers.
- [52:23]
Pastor Jay Chase Davis
Why do I want French toast sticks.
- [52:24]
Natalie
Now all of a sudden you're part of the problem.
- [52:26]
Clayton Morris
Yeah, you're part of the problem, you guys. But we have no sponsors that sell French toast sticks, so you're on your own there. Coming up, we're going to talk about who were the Christian pastors that went to Israel and signed up to be ambassadors. How does it feel if your pastor is a foreign agent?
- [52:43]
Shopify/Shipstation Advertiser
Where?
- [52:43]
Clayton Morris
Where does it say in the Bible that that's all good that your pastor can be, thou shall be a foreign agent in the epilogue or a foreign government in Genesis? I'm just curious. So we have a pastor coming up. He can tell me exactly where I can find that in the Bible. But before we get there, we want to tell you about our friends over at Armor. Because if you're feeling sluggish, bloated, maybe not like yourself. Well, of course life bombards you with silent threats. Processed foods, artificial light, modern stressors disrupt your gut and drain your energy, weaken your immune system. But not if you look into Amra Colostrum. It is nature's original blueprint for health. Colostrum is packed with over 400 bioactive nutrients that fortify gut health, fuel fitness, recovery and strengthen immune system support and support your best performance every day. So take back control of your health. We have worked out a special offer for our guests and for our audience rather. You can get 30 off your first subscription order. If you go to Armra.com redacted again, you'll get 30 off your first subscription order. That's a RMRA.com redacted focus on your immune health, overall health. Check it out for yourself. Armor.com redacted we also want to tell you about our friends over at Bright Core Nutrition because, hey, did you know that, that they make a, a kimchi in a pill form? So you probably know how good kimchi is for you, all the great things that it can do for you, but maybe you just don't have a taste for it. I know Americans typically don't. You know, it's popular in Korea where every family makes their own, has their own sort of unique flavors. If you weren't raised on that, it can be a little bit jarring. Unless you're Philip, who can eat it with every meal, but you can get it in pill form. Well, what are some of the benefits of kimchi? Obviously, is gut health. Did you know that US life expectancy peaked at 78 years old in 2014 and has been declining due to the toxins in our environment, chemicals in our soil, whatever it is, they spray in the sky. You know what I'm talking about? Well, you can fight this at a cellular level with kimchi. That's why we rely on Kimchi one, so we don't have to eat it all the time. And it's a fantastic supplement. We take it every day in our house. You can go to my GR. Sorry, my brightcore.com redacted use the code redacted and you'll get 25 off. So again, fortify your health. You'll see all sorts of signs of vitality, hair growth, growth, better joint health. Check them out. It's my brightcore.com redacted and again, the code is redacted. For 25. Off, off. All right, well, who were the Christian pastors that went to Israel last week pledging to become ambassadors for Israel inside their own congregations? When it was announced last week that Israel hosted 1,000American Christian pastors, there was an outcry, a demand. In our chat on the segment we did last week, I saw it online on X everywhere. There was a demand for this list because people want to know, is the person giving your sermon this week a foreign agent? Because Israel did ask them to sign forms saying that they would be an ambassador. They got plaques, certificates saying that they are. They're saying now they want to target an extra 10,000American Christian pastors. This is antithetical to scripture. The Bible is extremely clear that your allegiance belongs to God and no foreign government. Full stop. Well, here is a list that was published but and crowdsourced by popular X user Gen X Girl. When you go through it, you notice that a lot of them were from the American southwest. California, Texas, Arizona, Nevada, Colorado. That's kind of interesting. The denominations were Evangelicals, Baptists, Methodists and many non denominational churches. So what can we make of this? How do we interpret these pastors who are saying, no, this is fine, I will pledge my allegiance to a world government. How does that happen? Joining me to discuss is Pastor Jay Chase Davis. He's from the well church in Colorado. He was not on the list. Maybe your invitation got lost in the mail. I don't know. What do you think it might have.
- [57:03]
Pastor Jay Chase Davis
Got lost in the mail? It might be because we don't have thousands of people at our church. I'm not really sure. But yeah, I looked over that list last night. Another pastor friend sent it to me. It's pretty wild to see kind of this sponsored event for all these pastors. You know, I think one of the most helpful ways to understand it because a lot of American evangelicals are confused on this topic. It's just to understand two things. One is the political kind of instincts of the nation state of Israel and why they would do this. And the second is the biblical reality of how Christians should think about nation states, their own nation, their own citizenship, and ultimately their citizenship in heaven. I think it's really important that we're grounded in scripture, grounded theologically understanding how God's redemption has worked throughout time and that we do have duties to fulfill here. For an America, Listen, in America, we are American citizens. We want the best for America. It's very natural to have an American first attitude. But the political instincts of Israel are very much, you know, they relate to America because America is kind of the big dog. We are the global superpower. And so they want to buddy up to us. And for a lot of evangelicals, they've been kind of fed kind of a strange contortion of scripture regarding how the nation state of Israel and God's redemptive purposes and plans in the world play out today.
- [58:20]
Clayton Morris
Maybe you can walk me through specifically why these sects of Christianity, some of them, this is totally fine. And for some of them, this is a no way. Jose, for instance, we don't see Orthodox or Catholics on this list. Can you explain why that doctrine would preclude participation like this? But then maybe others would. Would go along with it?
- [58:44]
Pastor Jay Chase Davis
Yeah, I think my first instinct is to say it was probably a trip designed for this population group, but thinking more like sociologically and religiously American evangelicals. For the last 150 years, a lot of the seminaries, Dallas Theological Seminary, Moody Bible Institute, have kind of been caught up in a theological system called dispensationalism, in which Israel and the Jewish people have a particular track of redemption that. That some, on their best, if I were to be charitable, would say they want them to know Jesus because Jesus is the only way to salvation. But others might get into some really icy and heretical waters where they would suggest that there's a way to salvation apart from Jesus Christ, which is just, you know, heretical, to put it bluntly. And so for. For Israel, the way they're thinking of bringing over these pastors is they sense a lot of people in America asking questions about Israel. They sense a lot of suspicion about Israel's activities politically and globally, especially in American politics. And so they're trying to curry favor. And one of the big population groups and voting blocs in America is evangelicals. And evangelicals have been taught kind of this weird twisting of scripture about how we are to relate to the Jewish people and how we relate to Israel. And so they're going to bring over, I guess there's a thousand, it sounds like pastors, evangelical pastors mainly, because that's a large voting block. And in order to become ambassadors for Israel, they're going to bring them over and give them kind of a tour, show them the sites, give them some education, and send them out with some kind of credentialing system to defend Israel in any and all capacities. And so they're doing it mainly for political instincts, but they're. They're doing it. And it's easy to get these pastors over there because for Many evangelicals in America, they're deeply confused not only on the relationship between the nation state of Israel today and Israel we see in the Bible, but matters of salvation. That Jesus is the only way to be saved, that you must repent of your sins and be born a new creation in Jesus Christ by the power of God, and that is the only way to salvation. And for the last, like I said, for the last 150 years, they've been kind of fed a lot of theology that's. That's very weak. That's not very sound historically, if we look back at the church. And so it's easy to prey on these Christians for that reason.
- [61:06]
Clayton Morris
Okay, I was raised a Jehovah's Witness. And one of the most important doctrines of studying the Bible through that lens is that you do not put your faith in world governments, and it's biblical, and that should be easy for Christians. And in fact, the Jewish faith also precludes allegiance to world government, and it precludes an army if you read the Torah. And so I feel like you'd have to really stretch to ignore that, to say, okay, I'm gonna go and talk about the Bible and my method of teaching Christianity to my flock from a world government. It's just that bit of it. We don't even have to argue about whether Jesus is the Messiah or not. Whether, you know, when the prophecy is fulfilled, it almost doesn't matter because that, to me, is incredibly important. And so it's almost a cognitive dissonance. How are these people doing this and saying this is fine?
- [62:13]
Pastor Jay Chase Davis
Yeah, I think, you know, Americans have a natural disposition to be patriotic. They, they take certain scriptures like you mentioned. Let's. Let's think about the scripture that says we are ambassadors for Christ. Or in Ephesians, where Paul talks about being an ambassador in chains. So we take that we have a natural disposition to be evangelistic, want to share the gospel of the kingdom. We see in other passages like you mentioned, where it says we shouldn't put our trust in chariots or horses, but only in the Lord God. And so because we're patriotic Americans, because we want to fulfill our civic duties and want to fulfill our duties to our family, our neighbors, our nation, our states, all this there's a weird contortion of, okay, now we're going to give ourselves over to kind of this super power as global kind of mindset to where now the global kind of order can take over and we don't have to have allegiance here at home. And it's really sad. Because like, where a lot of pastors and churches should be investing locally, they should be investing in their own people groups in their own backyard. And Americans instead, they're willing to give themselves over to a foreign country in order to advocate for their interest, which is very odd. It also gets into American Christians typically have a very, a very high appreciation for world evangelism. They want to see all people come to know Jesus Christ. And so millions and millions of dollars are sent overseas. And so there's a weird connection there. I don't know if you want to get into it with kind of like foreign missions as well in American evangelicalism and also how it kind of maps on to democracy abroad and how we're spreading. Sometimes these missionaries are not so much spreading the gospel of Jesus Christ, although I do believe, believe they they are, but they're also kind of doing the work of, you know, spreading democracy for America. And so there's, there's kind of been a natural incubation over the last hundred years in foreign missions and in the way we think of the kingdom to where it's, it's not as clean cut and simple, like you said. When I see a new believer, which we have several people who become Christians at our church recently up here in Boulder, when we talk with new believers who haven't been raised in evangelicalism, all of what you said and all of what I'm talking about is very normal. It's like, yeah, that, you know, Israel is not a Christian country. They're a Jewish country. Jewish people have not accepted Jesus Christ and like, it's very normal. But for a lot of evangelicals that have been steeped with literature and podcast and, and sermons and all this kind of stuff that's taught them a certain way of reasoning through the Bible, to them it's just like, you know, supporting Israel is just as American and Christian as apple pie. You know, it's just like it's normal behavior, which is, you know, it makes you reflect a lot upon our evangelical institution. Like I said, Dallas Theological and other major eventual seminaries that haven't taught their pastors clearly on this.
- [65:01]
Clayton Morris
So you're saying that this is a natural extension of their American patriotism. And I understand that. I understand. I think, you know, I've read the works of Douglas Wilson, who makes the case that the US Constitution is built on Christian principles and so is capitalism. I appreciate that. So because our government is asking for allegiance to Israel, they're like, like, okay, we'll do it. Okay, makes sense. Philip has a question.
- [65:29]
Philip
Yeah. And it's funny because you just kind of almost like preempted my question. But so what I was, what I was curious about is, so you have these pastors going to Israel who are like mandated by the Bible to evangelize to others, to people who are non Christians. So how well would that go over in Israel if these pastors, rather than just doing the, the political song and dance of showing support for Israel, actually attempted to start evangelizing to Israelis? I don't think that would go over well at all. So it's like they go over there with the full intention of not doing what it is they should be doing.
- [66:05]
Clayton Morris
That's a funny way to put it.
- [66:07]
Pastor Jay Chase Davis
That is a funny way to put it. And yeah, I've been to Israel one time and I think that when I was over there and we were sharing the gospel, it was received. I've heard reports where it wasn't received. But that's the way gospel preaching goes. You'll preach the gospel to some people and God will save them, and to others they won't. And so I don't necessarily know what these pastors were doing as far as I, I would hope, you know, they're going over there and like, great, I have an opportunity to share the gospel with, with Jewish people. You know, that would be great. But like you, I'm a little bit suspicious. And instead, I'm afraid it was a bit of an indoctrination thing. And like I said, you see this with Israel with like APAC and other organizations, they typically bring over Congress people or anyone over in August and they try to give them the tour and give them the spiel and give them money in order to, to get online with Israeli interest as well, to show them that we can be partners. And so there's a huge realignment right now. There's a, there's an older generation in American evangelicalism, and most of these pastors that are going over there are of an older generation that have just kind of bought this kind of narrative about how America and Israel relate and using Christianity to justify this. But the younger generation is not buying it anymore. They're not, not kind of just like taking it wholesale. Everybody's going to question everything anyways. So that naturally arises that people are going to ask this. And so this, this gamut that they're running to bring over these pastors and make them ambassadors, it actually makes things worse. And that's, that's why I'm frustrated for Israel, actually. It's like if they wanted to help themselves they wouldn't be doing this because it looks like they're trying to co opt American Christians into defending a different nation. And that, that is what it may be. But if they were truly, you know, wanted to be a partner with America, then they wouldn't do these kind of activities. They wouldn't make them, these pastors, ambassadors for Israel. They would honor these pastors as being ambassadors for the kingdom of God and having a different faith and then say, look, we can talk to Congress people, we can have relationships. Maybe we shouldn't have AIPAC and be giving congresspeople money to what appears to be buying their vote. Maybe we shouldn't be doing that. Maybe we should play as we always have been, which is another nation in the world. They have particular interests for their nation and they're seeking to curry favor with the global superpower, America. And so they need to play ball on that realm rather than getting all of this theology and ways to salvation and really manipulating Christians, oftentimes by guilt into just giving themselves over to supporting a foreign nation.
- [68:35]
Clayton Morris
Yeah, I want to ask this, maybe a sort of denominational distinction, because who speaks for the Christians in Gaza? Because Israel does bomb churches in Gaza and they have the technology to avoid that and they don't use it. When the Catholic Church in Gaza was bombed, it wasn't the Pope himself that condemned it. It was an ancillary, like the Vatican news network. And it feels like. So are there certain denominations of these churches you see on the list who would be like, they're not mine. They're not my people. I mean, I would think that morally we should speak for all people of, of all Israelis, Palestinians, everyone who's being killed by any militia, full stop. But wouldn't you expect at least to speak for your brethren, like, hey, maybe stop killing the Christians in Gaza. But none of them did.
- [69:31]
Pastor Jay Chase Davis
Yeah, it's very odd. And you're right. I mean, the same thing I've highlighted in my church and in my sermons. What's going on in Nigeria where we care for Christian brothers around the world who are being either martyred or slaughtered or, you know, dying this kind of horrible, you know, event that's happening in Gaza. And so we should pray for these people. We should speak for them. I don't know if anyone's necessarily reticent to speak for the Christians in Gaza. Well, I guess that's not fair to assume they may be doing it just because they love Israel. But, you know, I, I would hope, you know, and I try to speak charitably of other Pastors there. And you know, many pastors are in a lot of pressure, obviously, if they're going to isra, an all expensive paid trip, maybe they're not under that much pressure. But you know, they want to speak faithfully. And so they may not be speaking out because they don't want to indemnify. But there's also, you have to remember in Gaza, the main denomination, not denominations, but kind of different branches are Catholic and Orthodox there. And so as Protestant Christians, a lot of times we have a hard time grappling with like Catholic persecution or Orthodox persecution. We saw the same thing in, in Ukraine. Yeah. It's not because there's no ill will necessarily. It's just like we don't know what's going on there. And a lot of Christians just don't know about Catholicism, Orthodoxy or much less Judaism. And so now we've got pastors going over there who are being kind of indoctrinated, whether they know it or not, being told they're ambassadors. And now they go back to their churches and you know, the person in the pew who's, who's a bit naive, not because of any fault of their own, they're just going, well, my pastor's an ambassador for Israel. Yes, that's what Christians do, you know, and that's what really makes me sad is like, like there should be more education on this. We should have nights where we're teaching on God's plan of redemption through Christ, what the nation state of Israel is today, what the Jewish people have been historically, what they've gone through historically, why they have the attitude they have, what it looks like to share the gospel with the Jewish people. But I think a lot of them just don't speak out because they don't know. And there's a lot of mixed messaging as far as what's actually happening on the ground, even though we've seen lots of video and pictures of what's happening on the ground. But yeah, we should pray for any Christians anywhere that Christians are being persecuted. I don't know that we should send American troops. I don't know that we should intervene necessarily, but we should absolutely go before the Lord. We should absolutely go to the Lord and ask for him to send his angels of protection to watch over them and to turn back the forces of darkness anywhere in the world.
- [71:54]
Clayton Morris
Yeah. Or at least question if you're breaking bread with the people who are killing them. That's maybe minimum, Right?
- [72:02]
Pastor Jay Chase Davis
That would be a good idea.
- [72:03]
Clayton Morris
Yeah. Okay. So if you are a Christian and you see your church on the this list, I guess you're really going to have to pray about it to know if you're in the right parish. I guess. What advice would you have for somebody who feels like, I'm not aligned with this? I don't want to see this. We're not saying just quit because we are not in charge of people's spiritual journey. But what, what can we say to people like that?
- [72:31]
Pastor Jay Chase Davis
Yeah, I think it's always fair to ask questions. It's always fair to send an email to a pastor. You really want to show respect as much as you can in that email while also being honest with your own convictions. And the way I would just say it is like, hey, like, I have different beliefs about these matters. Is this something that would bar me for membership in this church? And if so, then I'm going to find a new church which I can be a member of. But you know, when you put on Christians kind of extra biblical expectations that now being a Christian means you have to support the nation state of Israel and everything in anything and everything it does well, that, that would be pretty unbiblical. And so you want to come up, you want to come with sources, you want to come up with like a historic confession or creed, look to the Westminster Confession of Faith, the London Baptist Confession, 1689, any of these historic Protestant Christian confessions that you can use not as ammunition, but to better understand. And if any Christians asking those kind of questions, which are totally fair to ask, ask, you should just talk with your pastor, but also find other resources. You should be learned yourself. And so if you're in confusion about these matters, I run a podcast called Foolproof Theology. You can always check that out. I'm a contributing scholar at the center for Baptist Leadership. We write on cultural matters, particularly in the American context for Baptists. But you can always go to find resources there. But Christians need to get educated on this stuff. And they, they can just send an email to a pastor and say, hey, where do you stand on this? Because it seems like you're an ambassador for Israel. Israel. I'm pretty uncomfortable with that. And so I'm going to go find a church that I can fellowship with that's not going to have a pastor that's an ambassador for Israel.
- [74:05]
Clayton Morris
Okay, great. That was fantastic advice. Thank you so much. I don't want to, like I said, I don't tell everybody you need to quit. Right. Because that's not my place and I'm not a spiritual leader. But I think you had some, some Fantastic advice. So thank you so much. It's nice to meet you. Nice to talk to you. I hope we can talk again.
- [74:23]
Shopify/Shipstation Advertiser
Again.
- [74:24]
Pastor Jay Chase Davis
Great. Thanks so much for having me. It was great to be here.
- [74:26]
Clayton Morris
Absolutely. My pleasure. All right, well, that's going to do it for the show today. We are going to stick around because we have Rumble Premium on Thursday. So if you're a Rumble Premium member, then we will hang out with you. Hang out with you guys. Hear that? It was a double. Sorry if you heard my voice double first.
- [74:43]
Captain Matthew Ho
David.
- [74:44]
Clayton Morris
David. Okay, so where. What was I saying? Oh, yeah.
- [74:49]
Natalie
Yes.
- [74:49]
Clayton Morris
Um, you can join Rumble Premium. Can you. What is the link, you guys, I always forget off the top of my head, is rumble.com premium. That's what it is right there. If you use the code redacted, you can save $10 and support freedom of speech. So hopefully you're a Rumble Premium member. So use that code to get a discount on it, because Rumble is really the one place where we feel free to speak our minds freely. So you never know what I'm going to say in that Rumble Premium. And Clayton's not here. He had to do a school pickup, so I don't know. He's not here to defend himself. I don't know what I'm gonna say there. Before we say goodbye, though, we want to tell you of our friends at.
- [75:25]
Natalie
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- [76:26]
Clayton Morris
All right, so I want to thank you if you've been with us on YouTube and you don't want to come over to Rumble. Thank you for watching the show this week. We will be back on Monday. It should be noted that we'll be here all next week, and then we'll be off for the holidays for two weeks, so make sure you join us. And we are filming some fantastic content for you, so please be checking in on the channel while you're off for the break. Um, today I got to speak with comedian Dave Smith. He's very popular on X. You might know him. It really was a fun conversation about the online discourse, about being a dissenter, about what it means to truly be someone who's an independent thinker and not aligned with partisan politics. I really enjoyed it. I can't wait for you to see that. Let's see. We have, oh, a special about the Japanese holocaust against the Chinese that did happen at the same time as the Jewish holocaust. You may not know it's not the popular one. So we have stuff about that. What else, you guys? Anything else you're especially excited about before we say goodbye?
- [77:25]
Philip
I do believe we have one coming up on something I hate, which is the LED headlights and whatnot. The fact that we're all being blinded while driving.
- [77:34]
Clayton Morris
Yeah, that one's a good one, too. Yep. Someone else who suffered Havana syndrome. We have more about that. So exciting stuff. It's very festive for your holidays.
- [77:45]
Pastor Jay Chase Davis
I'm not gonna be watching the LED light one.
- [77:48]
Clayton Morris
No, because you. I know. Look at all the lights.
- [77:51]
Philip
So I bought my Forerunner off of David, and I was like, holy hell, this thing is bright. He drove. He drives with his fog lights on, too. So he's got, like, the super bright LED headlights and then the yellow fog lights on at the same time. I was like, why is everything around me look like the sun?
- [78:05]
Natalie
Yeah.
- [78:06]
Philip
So, yeah, he needs to avoid that one. Yeah. He lives on the bright side.
- [78:10]
Clayton Morris
Okay. He's like the opposite of a vampire.
- [78:14]
Pastor Jay Chase Davis
Yeah, I live on the. No, I.
- [78:16]
Philip
No, that's not true. Because I keep my windows closed and.
- [78:18]
Pastor Jay Chase Davis
My LED lights on. So I'm therefore like a vampire. Vampire. I'm okay. Sunlight. I get LED light.
- [78:25]
Clayton Morris
And if I find any LED lights I think they want. No, I don't think so.
- [78:30]
Philip
This one does.
- [78:31]
Clayton Morris
Let's get an expert in on that. Okay. We will continue to discuss this on Rumble Premium. You don't want to miss that. What a vampire would think.
- [78:40]
Pastor Jay Chase Davis
No.
- [78:41]
Clayton Morris
We'll talk about more fun stuff. Join us over there if you're not coming, though. Thank you so much. We'll see you next week, everybody.
- [78:47]
Pastor Jay Chase Davis
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- [79:00]
Captain Matthew Ho
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- [79:10]
Natalie
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- [79:51]
Pastor Jay Chase Davis
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Captain Matthew Ho
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- [80:02]
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