Leadership Lounge: How to Be an Effective Board Director When Everything Is On Fire

Summary

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Redefiners – Leadership Lounge: How to Be an Effective Board Director When Everything Is On Fire

Date: November 5, 2025
Hosts: Emma Coombe (Moderator), Gwenelle Carre, Ted Dysart
Podcast: Redefiners by Russell Reynolds Associates

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Episode Overview

This episode of "Leadership Lounge" explores the complexities and best practices of effective board directorship during times of acute crisis. Leadership advisors Gwenelle Carre and Ted Dysart join Emma Coombe to share practical guidance, personal anecdotes, and actionable strategies for board directors managing extreme volatility—whether in the form of abrupt management changes, cyberattacks, or industry-wide disruptions. Discussion centers on crisis governance, striking the right balance between oversight and interference, and maintaining personal and collective effectiveness under pressure.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

Essential Traits for Crisis-Era Board Directors

• Calm, Judgment, Empathy: Gwenelle Carre identifies these as the core traits board members should demonstrate when facing crises.

  “The key traits that [board directors] find particularly helpful are the ability to stay calm, having good judgment, but also a dose of empathy.”
  — Gwenelle Carre [01:50]

  • Calm facilitates clear prioritization and productive relationships with executives.
  • Empathy maintains morale and collaboration during stressful times.
  • Good judgment guides directors in assessing when to challenge, support, or defer to management.

• Staying Current and Sharing Perspectives:

  “Staying current… allows you to share that best practice, to bring other perspectives on how others are handling similar situations.”
  — Emma Coombe [02:44]

  • Board members who are engaged across sectors can share relevant best practices from diverse experiences.

The “Art of Questioning” and Constructive Oversight

• Asking the Right Questions the Right Way:

  “Directors are there for oversight on behalf of shareholders, but also to make the management team better. If a director gets into a meeting and starts asking questions that feel like a trap, the management team will just shut down.”
  — Ted Dysart [03:30]

  • Board interactions should foster constructive, rather than adversarial, dynamics.
  • Productive tension between support and challenge delivers value to both board and management.

• Diversity of Skill Sets:

  “It’s key that you have the right non executive directors around the table with a diverse range of experiences…”
  — Emma Coombe [04:08]

• Case Study Reference:

  • Boeing 737 Max crisis illustrates pitfalls of insufficiently probing questions or lack of relevant expertise on boards. [04:30-05:20]

Knowing When to Step In – The Board/Management Balance

• Non-Executives: Know Your Role

  “It’s really important for [board directors] to remember that fundamentally their role is non executive. They do… have an important and active role to play.”
  — Gwenelle Carre [05:44]

  • Non-execs should be accessible, responsive, and leverage their external networks for the benefit of the executive team.

• External Peer Networks in Crisis:

  “[Directors’] external perspective and the network... is highly valued by the executives... e.g., during a cyber attack when the chair introduced [the CEO] to another CEO who had gone through the same thing.”
  — Gwenelle Carre [06:45]

• Principle of “Noses In, Fingers Out”:

  “Directors need to follow the principle of noses in and fingers out. But fingers out doesn’t mean the directors are not informed…”
  — Ted Dysart [07:36]

  • Be actively engaged, but avoid crossing into micromanagement.
  • Step in decisively only for existential threats or if management loses confidence.
  • Help management slow down and reflect under pressure.

• Warren Buffett Quote on Leadership Under Pressure:

  “It’s only when the tide goes out that you can discover who’s been swimming naked.”
  — Emma Coombe [08:29]

Achieving Board Consensus and Deliberation

• Chair’s Role in Orchestrating Debate:

  “The chair has a crucial role to play here, orchestrating the board, making sure that every board member contributes their expertise… and manage the discussion to a conclusion in a timely manner.”
  — Gwenelle Carre [09:44]

• Cabinet Responsibility:

  “You can and should debate vigorously in the boardroom. But once a decision is made, everyone needs to be aligned.”
  — Emma Coombe [10:14]

• Information Flows: - Between meetings, proactive one-on-one discussions help build consensus and address “big gap” issues (e.g., whether to change CEO/CFO). [10:14]

Managing Competing Demands Across Multiple Boards

• Time and Capacity Management:

  “If you are on three or more boards, one of your boards is likely in some form of crisis all the time… Not showing up for meetings isn’t an option. So boards and directors need to figure out how they’re going to delegate responsibilities…”
  — Ted Dysart [11:16]

  • Investment in relationships and preparedness allows directors to function well, even under strain.

• Guidance Against Overboarding:

  • Proxy agencies count “points” for directorships; overboarding is discouraged (4-5 points seen as a red flag).
  • Private/PE-backed boards may be more demanding than public, despite not being “counted.” [12:14]

• Good Non-Execs Don’t Often Feel Overstretched:

  “If you’ve been an executive in the past… having to step up occasionally to a different level of intensity shouldn’t feel like a problem.”
  — Emma Coombe [12:47]

Sustaining Mental Sharpness and Objectivity During Prolonged Uncertainty

• Wellbeing Focus:

  “The chair in particular has an important role to play in ensuring that the CEO is coping well with the stress and is able to think clearly.”
  — Gwenelle Carre [13:42]

  • Board members should recognize the pressures on executives and look for ways to provide support—a walk outside, a safe space to vent, or encouraging mentorship.

• External Mentorship:

  • Chairs often encourage CEOs to seek outside mentors for perspective and resilience. [14:47]

The Importance of Reflection and Learning After Crisis

• Structured Reflection and Institutional Learning:

  “The learning that happens after a sustained period of volatility is often more valuable than the response during it. But without structured reflection, those lessons get lost in the relief of moving past the immediate challenge or crisis.”
  — Ted Dysart [15:27]

  • Boards should document key decisions, rationale, and lessons learned to build organizational memory and resilience.

• Notable Story:

  “A director once told me… he realized that he’d shut down any conversation or discussion by sharing his viewpoint so forcefully… In hindsight, he called the lead director and asked him to reopen the conversation…”
  — Ted Dysart [15:43]

• Never Let a Good Crisis Go to Waste:

  “As Winston Churchill once said, never let a good crisis go to waste.”
  — Ted Dysart [16:47]

• Crisis Creates Bonds:

  “Incredible friendships are formed, remarkable bonds, when these groups of non executive directors and management have worked through incredibly tough times together…”
  — Emma Coombe [16:52]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Calmness, good judgment and empathy form the foundation of crisis leadership at the board level.”
  — Emma Coombe [02:44]

• “Directors help [management] take a pause and breathe in those moments.”
  — Ted Dysart [07:36]

• “Noses in, fingers out. Be deeply informed and engaged, but don’t cross the line into managing the business during periods of volatility.”
  — Emma Coombe [16:20] (recap)

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Important Timestamps

• [01:39] – Key crisis skills: calm, judgment, empathy (Gwenelle Carre)
• [03:30] – Asking the right questions, the right way (Ted Dysart)
• [05:44] – When to step in vs. trust management (Gwenelle Carre)
• [07:36] – “Noses in, fingers out” principle (Ted Dysart)
• [09:44] – The chair’s role in creating consensus (Gwenelle Carre)
• [11:16] – Managing multiple boards, time commitments (Ted Dysart)
• [13:42] – Board’s responsibility for executive wellbeing (Gwenelle Carre)
• [15:27] – Structured post-crisis reflection (Ted Dysart)
• [16:47] – “Never let a good crisis go to waste.” (Winston Churchill quote)

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Key Takeaways

• Stay calm, exercise sound judgment, and lead with empathy in crisis.
• Directors should be deeply engaged—probing and supportive—while respecting their non-executive boundary (“noses in, fingers out”).
• Effective questioning and constructive board-management relationships deliver value in turbulent times.
• The chair plays a decisive role in orchestrating debate and ensuring consensus.
• Overboarding is increasingly scrutinized—directors must manage their commitments wisely.
• Board members must look after their own and executives’ mental resilience, providing support and perspective.
• The most valuable learning comes after the crisis, through structured, honest reflection and documentation.
• Bonds forged during periods of shared adversity can last careers.

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For aspiring and current board directors, this episode offers not only framework and philosophy, but also practical tactics for maintaining effectiveness when “everything is on fire.”

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to the Leadership Lounge, a place to kick back and listen as our experts dissect some of the biggest questions leaders face today. I'm Emma Coombe, leadership advisor in our London office. In today's episode, we're exploring crisis governance. How individual board directors can navigate their responsibilities and and maintain effectiveness when their organizations face extreme pressure. It's no secret that board directors operate in an environment of high complexity and volatility. So what are some of the key skills that effective board directors possess during periods of sustained uncertainty? When is it appropriate for you to step in versus trust management? And what's the best approach for managing competing demands if you serve on multiple boards facing simultaneous challenges? Today, our leadership advisors will be sharing practical, actionable guidance for board directors, both current and aspiring, on how to function effectively during these high stakes moments. But before we dive in, remember to share any burning questions you want our experts to answer by emailing redefinersusslernolds.com it would be great to hear from you. And if you enjoy listening to our episodes, leave us a review on Apple or Spotify. So let's dive in. First up, we'd like to welcome Gwenelle Carre, leadership advisor in Russell Reynolds Associates London office, into the conversation. Gwenelle, welcome to the Leadership Lounge.

[B]

Very nice to be here. Thank you for having me.

[A]

So Guenelle, when there's a hostile situation, an abrupt change in management or sustained volatility, what are some of the key skills that board directors should utilise?

[B]

Well, when we speak to board directors about these subjects, what comes through again and again is that the key traits that they find particularly helpful are the ability to stay calm, having good judgment, but also a dose of empathy. So staying calm really is essential to making sure that the appropriate attention is given to the most important issues. Making sure also that the priorities are in the right order. But also it really helps maintaining positive and constructive relations with the execrate executives during a very challenging time. Good judgment is important also because that is what will guide the non executive directors when they make decisions around what challenge they should give to the executives. When to go with the consensus, potentially examining the various scenarios that are at play during the crisis.

[A]

I think that's spot on Gwenel. Calmness, good judgment and empathy form the foundation of crisis leadership at the board level. There's also something about currency which I'm sure we'll talk about later in this episode. But staying current, whether it's through attending updates with professional advisors or because you are an executive on another board or a Non executive really allows you to share that best practice to bring other perspectives on how others are handling similar situations. I'd now like to welcome Ted Dysart, Leadership Advisor at Russell Reynolds, Associate Chicago office in into the conversation. Ted, welcome to the leadership Lounge.

[C]

It's great to be here with you, Emma.

[A]

So, Ted, what are some of the other key skills that board members should utilize in moments of volatility?

[C]

One key trait is being able to ask the right questions, but also ask those questions in the right way. Directors are there for oversight on behalf of shareholders, but also to make the management team better. If a director gets into a meeting and starts asking questions that feel like a trap, the management team will just shut down. These conversations are a dance. It's important that directors build and maintain excellent relationships with the management team and fellow directors. You need a constructive but not deferential relationship with the CEO and other senior executives. There should be some productive tension in the conversation that produces both value for the board and the management team.

[A]

That's exactly right, Ted. The art of questioning, especially during periods of uncertainty, is critical. It's important to support as much as challenge, and it's key that you have the right non executive directors around the table with a diverse range of experiences so that they are qualified as an aggregate to make sure that each critical aspect is covered off. So the financial, the strategy, the remuneration. Each of these different aspects, if not properly interrogated, can be a downfall. To give an example of where things did go wrong, the Boeing 737 Max crisis demonstrates what can happen when boards fail to ask sufficiently probing questions or perh missing the right skills and experience around the table. It's a stark reminder that having the right directors asking the right questions, especially the uncomfortable ones, isn't just good governance. It can be the difference between averting disaster and catastrophe. Being a great collaborator is essential here. The quality of your relationship with your CEO and fellow directors often determines how effective you can be when the stakes are at their highest. And of course, no relationship is more critical than that between chair and CEO. So Gwenel, to turn it back to you, we've mentioned the importance of collaboration and connectivity between the board and management. But often that line between them can become more blurred during high pressure situations. What do you hear from your board director clients about how they decide when they need to step in versus when to let management handle decisions during critical moments of volatility?

[B]

Well, what we hear from the board directors we speak to is that it's really important for them to remember that fundamentally Their role is non executive. They do however, have an important and active role to play. It's important that they make themselves available to the executive team when required. The CEOs and the CFOs that we've spoken to have appreciated their director's ability to attend not only the scheduled meetings, but also the ad hoc board meetings, but also their responsiveness to their requests for a call where never needed by the executives. The chair has an important role to play in all of this by staying close to the executive team, acting as a sounding board, but also leveraging the other board members expertise as appropriate and required. The external perspective and the network that the non executive directors bring from their other board is also highly valued by the executives. And one of our clients found it particularly useful during a cyber attack when his chair introduced him to another CEO who had gone through the same thing very recently.

[A]

That's a great example, Cornell. And something I'm hearing a lot too actually. Cyber attacks of course becoming ever more prevalent. And a CEO recently told me how he proactively reached out to another leader suffering the same thing that he had gone through quite a few years previously. And a whole network of peers had reached out to him. And when you're facing these critical decisions like do you pay the ransom, do you get your tech into an island, do you restart the whole system? And there's no precedent that you know of being able to tap into what others are doing is more important than ever. And directors will have a wealth of knowledge and experience from a multitude of sectors. And often they will have seen both sides of the coin serving in an executive and a non executive capacity. So Ted, what's your perspective on this question about knowing when and how to step in?

[C]

Yeah, one piece of advice I'd like to give directors is to help slow things down in moments of volatility. Good executives have an instinct to act and to take action. Directors help them take a pause and breathe in those moments. Directors and boards need to work with management in high pressure situations to make sure that the team is thinking clearly, can defend its rationale on decisions, and serve as a sparring partner to help management teams come to great conclusions that align with the company's values and purpose. Directors should only step in to force issues when there is an existential crisis or they've lost confidence in the management team. Directors need to follow the principle of noses in and fingers out. But fingers out doesn't mean the directors are not informed about all of the options they need to be engaged in coming to conclusions and Aligned on that messaging together.

[A]

I couldn't agree more, Ted. And this is perhaps the most delicate balance directors face during a crisis. I think that principle, noses in, fingers out, perfectly captures the tension. And getting this balance wrong during a period of real crisis can undermine management's effectiveness or leave the board exposed to governance failures. Ultimately, a board is there to ensure they have the right people running the business. And during volatility, it can be even more revealing for a management team. As Warren Buffett famously shared, it's only when the tide goes out that you can discover who's been swimming naked. And for example, lots of people cited this quote during the pandemic, suddenly CEOs, CFOs were under an extraordinary amount of pressure. And whilst we didn't see that much leadership change in the moment because of course it couldn't make sense, actually after the pandemic there was quite a lot of change because people had been really exposed. So Gwenel, coming back to you, as we just mentioned, knowing where the line is between management and the board is critical. Something board directors also need to navigate is balancing their individual perspective with the board as a whole. How can a director balance sharing their individual perspective with creating consensus with the rest of the board, especially during periods of volatility?

[B]

The chair has a crucial role to play here, orchestrating the board, making sure that every board member contributes their expertise to the conversation, but then crucially manage the discussion to a conclusion in a timely manner so that the executives can jump into action. The role of the non executive directors in that situation is really to express their view very clearly and strongly, but ultimately to accept cabinet responsibility once the board has made the decision exactly right.

[A]

Guenel Rushing agreement without proper deliberation is exactly when boards make their worst decisions. And that concept of cabinet responsibility is so important you can and should debate vigorously in the boardroom. But once a decision is made, everyone needs to be aligned. And it's tough as a board when in the US for example, you only meet four times a year. In Europe it tends to be around eight times a year. But there are big gaps between these critical decision making moments and so how information is shared between times, the role of the chair and talking to board members one on one in advance of a board meeting. This kind of input is so important to make sure that a consensus can be agreed on perhaps the most fundamental decisions like do we have the right CEO? Do we have the right cfo? Is it time to change? So coming back to you now, Ted, experienced directors oftentimes do serve on multiple boards and this could create competing demands during periods of volatility. What's your view on how you practically manage your time and energy in these circumstances?

[C]

This can be one of the bigger challenges when one is shifting from a full time executive role into being a full time board member. Before taking a board roll on, directors need to think through how they will manage their time. The reality is if you are on three or more boards, one of your boards is likely in some form of crisis all the time. That could be an M and A issue, it could be an unexpected CEO transition or it could be a regulatory event. In the case of the COVID pandemic, all companies were put into crisis at the same time. Not showing up for meetings isn't an option. So boards and directors need to figure out how they're going to delegate responsibilities to their key committees, board leaders and others. And then an individual director needs to do the work to make sure they are up to speed on the important work that those subgroups are handling. In these moments. It's crucial that a board and its directors have invested the time to get to know each other and the management team so they have trust in one another and understand how everyone operates.

[A]

That's such practical advice. Ted and of course lots of the proxy agencies like ISS and Glassdoor and then some of the very big investors like BlackRock have issued specific guidance against overboarding where they count the number of so called points that individual directors have, one for a non exec, two for a chair, and for example more than four or five points is considered overboarding. This is by no means a perfect science and these agencies don't actually count privately owned businesses, whether it's private equity backed or family owned, which can be a bit counterintuitive as these cases might take the most time. But nonetheless it does show that people are putting a real spotlight on how much time you are committing, particularly if you're a chair, which is of course by far the most time consuming role and very different to that of being a non executive director. I personally would stress that if you are a good non executive director, it really shouldn't be that you're feeling stretched time wise. If you've been an executive in the past, that's a very different rhythm and having to step up occasionally to a different level of intensity shouldn't feel like a problem. And actually you're probably overstepping the mark if you are experiencing undue stress. So Gwenelle, in the last few years uncertainty has become the new normal in your work with non executive Directors, what are you hearing are some of the ways that they can remain mentally sharp and objective when serving during a prolonged period of uncertainty?

[B]

Well, it is true that dealing with a crisis is time consuming. It's a lot of hard work, and the non executive directors need to be prepared for that and especially make sure that they have sufficient capacity if any number of their boards require more of their time at the same time. What we have heard from board members, however, is that dealing with a crisis is even harder on the executive team. And the view is that the board members need to take into the executive's well being, particularly as they are making crucial decisions for the future of the business under intense pressure. The chair in particular has an important role to play in ensuring that the CEO is coping well with the stress and is able to think clearly. We heard examples of a chair, for example, taking his CEO for a walk outside of a building for a bit of fresh air and a sense of perspective. And another one providing a safe space where the CEO could freely and sometimes loudly express his frustration, possibly anger, to his chair before going back into the fray.

[A]

Those examples really highlight the human dimension of crisis leadership. And that's why oftentimes, for example, chairs will encourage the CEOs they work with to have a mentor, to have an outlet, because it can't be their partner, it can't necessarily be their chair. And some individuals really need that external perspective. Somebody who isn't associated with anything else to do with their business, but he can help them really see the wood from the trees, give really sage advice. So for our final question in the lounge today, I'd like to come back to you, Ted. What questions should an individual director be asking themselves and proposing to the board after navigating through a crisis?

[C]

That's a great question, Emma. The learning that happens after a sustained period of volatility is often more valuable than the response during it. But without structured reflection, those lessons get lost in the relief of moving past the immediate challenge or crisis. This is where directors can help build organizational resilience by ensuring the board captures and institutionalizes the lessons from their crisis experience. Directors need to evaluate their individual contribution. Where did you add value? And where could you have been more effective? A director once told me that on his way to the airport, he was feeling quite clever about how he redirected the conversation during the board meeting. But in hindsight, he realized that he'd shut down any conversation or discussion by sharing his viewpoint so forcefully. Before he boarded the plane, he called the lead director and asked him to Reopen the conversation at their next session so they could make sure that the board knew where everyone stood. Now that's unusual. Self awareness. In addition to your own performance, make sure that the board reflects on overall board dynamics and information flow. What worked well, what needs to change the next time. The board should also document key decisions and their rationale while they're fresh. This becomes institutional memory that helps the board perform better in the future. As Winston Churchill once said, never let a good crisis go to waste.

[A]

I love that Winston Churchill quote. And the reality is that all boards nowadays are having moments of crises. What we actually see is that incredible friendships are formed, remarkable bonds when these groups of non executive directors and management have worked through incredibly tough times together. I have clients who still get together annually maybe for boards they sat on 10 years ago because they work so effectively as a team together to overcome something really challenging. So whilst it can feel very difficult in the moment, actually these experiences are incredibly bonding. And it's a privilege is what individuals constantly tell us. It's such a privilege to be able to do the work of a non executive director to support management and to have that much broader vantage point that it allows than when you're in your day to day mode of executing as somebody in a full time role. I hope today's episode has given you deeper insights into how to navigate your responsibilities as a board Director during periods of extreme pressure and sustained uncertainty. And thank you so much Gwenell and Ted for sharing your perspectives. In 30 seconds this is what we've learned. Stay calm, exercise sound judgment and lead with empathy. These three traits are essential for board directors Navigating Volatility Remember, nose is in, fingers out. Be deeply informed and engaged, but don't cross the line into managing the business during periods of volatility. Support your CEOs well being during prolonged stress. A CEO who can't think clearly is a risk to the entire organization. And finally, never let a good crisis go to waste. Structured post crisis reflection is where the most valuable learning happens and builds resilience for the future. If you have any topics or burning questions you'd like us to cover in future episodes of Leadership Lounge, then please get in touch. Email your questions to redefinersusslerynolds.com until next time. Goodbye.