Putting Sustainability Talk into Action with former Enel CEO Francesco Starace

Summary

Redefiners Podcast Summary

Episode: Putting Sustainability Talk into Action with Former Enel CEO Francesco Staracci
Release Date: September 25, 2024
Hosts: Hoda Tahoun & Clarke Murphy

---

Introduction

In this episode of Redefiners, hosts Hoda Tahoun and Clarke Murphy engage in a compelling conversation with Francesco Staracci, the former CEO of Enel. Francesco shares his extensive experience in transforming Enel into a global renewable energy powerhouse, offering invaluable insights into sustainable leadership, technological innovation, and the future of the energy sector.

Transforming Enel into a Renewable Energy Leader

Francesco Staracci discusses his tenure at Enel, emphasizing that the transformation towards renewable energy was a collective effort driven by a clear organizational purpose.

Francesco Staracci [04:32]: "Look, this is not me that transformed the company into something else. It's the company that transformed itself."

He highlights the importance of redefining the company's purpose to "empower sustainable progress," which galvanized the workforce to embrace change and invest in renewable technologies. This shift was not merely ideological but a strategic move to ensure long-term sustainability and societal acceptance.

Leadership and Corporate Culture

Francesco elaborates on fostering a culture of sustainability within Enel. By stripping away non-essential layers and focusing on the core mission of serving society sustainably, he empowered employees to innovate and adapt.

Francesco Staracci [07:34]: "It was more an issue of eliminating layers of useless stuff that was painted on top of that... We just went down back to, we are a service that is fundamental for society and we want to do it in a way that society accepts it more and more."

This cultural shift made the transition to renewable energy less of a battle and more of an organic evolution driven by shared values and collective effort.

Technological Advancements and Digitization in Energy

Francesco details Enel's pioneering efforts in digitization, starting with the installation of smart meters in 2001 and the subsequent development of smart grids. The integration of technology was pivotal in managing a vast number of small renewable projects efficiently.

Francesco Staracci [16:30]: "We quickly migrated to the cloud... This enabled us to accelerate the digital transformation in a big, big way."

He underscores the critical role of digitization in scaling renewable projects, enhancing operational efficiency, and improving customer experiences. The strategic decision to adopt cloud technology facilitated rapid growth and innovation within the company.

Perspectives on AI and Technology

When discussing the potential of AI, Francesco maintains an optimistic view, acknowledging both its benefits and risks. He believes that technologies like generative AI are neutral tools whose impact depends on their application.

Francesco Staracci [21:48]: "Technology is just technology. There's nothing wrong with it or bad with it or good with it. It's just the way we use it makes it change."

Francesco emphasizes the importance of harnessing AI for positive progress while being vigilant about its ethical and societal implications.

International Partnerships and Sustainability

Francesco advocates for stronger collaborations between the private sector and global initiatives to drive sustainability. He criticizes the misconception of a trade-off between climate action and profitability, asserting that sustainability enhances value creation.

Francesco Staracci [23:59]: "It's an enhancement of value creation... when people say, 'there is a trade-off between climate and money,' no, no, it's not a trade-off."

He calls for leveraging the goodwill and expertise within global coalitions to accelerate sustainable practices across industries.

Climate Week and Global Decarbonization Efforts

Addressing Climate Week, Francesco highlights the imperative of including emerging economies in the decarbonization journey. He stresses the need for adequate funding and support to ensure that the Global South can participate effectively in sustainability initiatives without repeating past mistakes.

Francesco Staracci [29:11]: "Do they find the money to do that? Do they find the funds to, to really do this properly?"

He remains hopeful that influential nations like China and India will take the lead in fostering equitable and effective global climate action.

Personal Insights and Leadership Lessons

Francesco shares pivotal moments from his career that shaped his leadership philosophy. He reflects on his early experiences in the construction industry, where he witnessed firsthand the power of motivated teams to achieve seemingly impossible goals.

Francesco Staracci [25:37]: "An incredible moment of discovery of what mankind can do if properly motivated."

He offers practical advice for leaders undergoing business transformations, emphasizing the importance of understanding the company's identity independent of one's personal influence.

Francesco Staracci [32:30]: "Think about what the company looks like without you."

Rapid Fire: Getting to Know Francesco

In the closing segment, hosts Hoda and Clarke ask Francesco a series of rapid-fire questions to uncover his personal preferences and leadership philosophies:

• Languages:

  Francesco: "I would like to learn Russian."
  Reason: "Because I think we need to speak a lot more between us and them."

• Advice for Leaders:

  Francesco: "Think about what the company looks like without you."

• Wish Learned Sooner:

  Francesco: "I wish I would have understood sooner how this sustainability game was."

• Recommended Book:

  Francesco: "A book by Ed Conway about materials that shape the world."

• Admired Leader:

  Francesco: "I admire incredibly Kemal Ataturk."

• Optimism about Climate Crisis:

  Francesco: "I'm optimistic about the climate crisis. Technology works in an exponential fashion."

Conclusion

Francesco Staracci's insights underscore the power of purpose-driven leadership and the pivotal role of technology in driving sustainable transformation. His optimistic outlook on the climate crisis and belief in collaborative efforts between sectors offer a hopeful vision for the future. Throughout the conversation, Francesco emphasizes that with the right motivation and strategic thinking, substantial positive change is not only possible but achievable.

Clarke Murphy: "Francesco, your optimism and visionary approach truly embody the spirit of a Redefiner. Thank you for sharing your remarkable journey and invaluable insights with us."

For more inspiring conversations and leadership insights, listen to Redefiners on your preferred podcast platform or visit russellreynolds.com.

Transcript

[Hoda Tahun]

Call them change makers, call them rule breakers. We call them Redefiners.

[Clark Murphy]

Join us in conversation with daring leaders who are creating extraordinary impact and driving change from around the globe.

[Hoda Tahun]

Each episode gives you a fresh perspective on your leadership and career journey. I'm Hoda Tahun, a leadership advisor at Russell Reynolds.

[Clark Murphy]

I'm Clark Murphy, the former chief Executive officer and a leadership advisor. And this is is Redefiners.

[Hoda Tahun]

Hi everyone, and welcome back to Redefiners. I'm Huda Tahun, a leadership advisor at Russell Reynolds Associates, and I'm here once again with my incomparable podcast partner and co host, Simon Kingston.

[Simon Kingston]

Hello Hoda. Great to be here for another gripping conversation in the series and very excited to be meeting our guest today.

[Hoda Tahun]

Very excited as well. So before we get started, just a quick reminder to our listeners that you can find all episodes of Redefiners and leadership lounge on YouTube. And if you're currently watching Redefiners on YouTube, go ahead and hit that subscribe button below so you don't miss an episode. Simon we work with clients all over the world to help them build teams of transformational leaders. These are people who not only meet today's challenges, but also anticipate the digital, economic, sustainable and political trends that are happening all over the world and reshaping the global business environment.

[Simon Kingston]

We certainly do, Hoda. And as our listeners will all know, that world is not getting any less complex. The combination of geopolitical uncertainty, of climate change, of the possibility, but also the challenge of new technologies, and of course the growing social demands on leaders in every sector make the world a really interesting but challenging place for leaders. And that need for a new generation of global leader is something that our Redefiners co host, Clark Murphy discovered and indeed wrote about with our guest today. And his advice when writing his book on sustainable leadership. It informs the way we think about a model of sustainable leadership. And I know it's something we're going to talk about over the next few minutes, but while that sustainability and the idea of it is easy to talk about, it can be very hard to deliver in reality.

[Hoda Tahun]

It's very true, Simon, and it's one of the reasons I'm so excited about our guest today. He's someone who has taken the challenge of sustainability to transform his company into a new renewable energy global powerhouse. That's not something that you hear about every day.

[Simon Kingston]

No, and I'm really excited to learn a little bit more about how he did it and the lessons he can share with our listeners for his current and former sectors and for theirs.

[Hoda Tahun]

So, Simon, please tell our listeners who our guest is today.

[Simon Kingston]

Our guest is Francesco Starocci. Today, Francesco serves in multiple board positions. He's the chair of the Governance Board of Sustainability for All. He's the chair of Science Based Targets Initiatives, Board of Trustees. And in addition to that, he's a partner with private equity firm EQT in the infrastructure space. But before that, and perhaps the thing I hope you'll forgive us for saying he's still most famous for is his very successful tenure as chief executive of Enel, where he's credited with transforming the company into one of the world's largest renewable energy producers. And during that time, he began this engagement with organizations well beyond the commercial sector in two terms on the board of the UN Global Compact.

[Hoda Tahun]

Amazing. Francesco, welcome to Redefiners.

[Francesco Starocci]

Thank you. Thank you. Hold on. Thank you, Simon. It's a pleasure to be with you.

[Hoda Tahun]

We're very excited to have you on and we're going to jump right in. You were CEO of nl, where you led the company's efforts to phase out fossil fueled energy production and invest in renewable energy as well as digital technology. And these are efforts that have helped transform the company into one of the largest renewable energy producers and the largest system of digitized electricity distribution grids. Please tell us about that experience. How did you transform a traditional energy producer into a renewable energy leader?

[Francesco Starocci]

Look, this is not me that transformed the company into something else. It's the company that transformed itself. And basically the company was large and it became larger during this nine years. But the change happened because everybody, a large, let's say a large majority of the employees and the people working in NL thought it was a good idea. So otherwise it would have been a frustrating exercise. I would say key to this was to go back and ask people, why do we, what is the purpose of our being? You know, why are we there? And you know, most utilities were formed years and years ago with a very simple task that was bring light to people and keep the lights on. That's super basic. Okay. So we tried to get a little deeper in that and saying, what are the lights? Or why is energy needed? And we developed this very simple purpose that would be we are around to empower progress, of keeping this in a sustainable way. So we empower sustainable progress. That's key. With this very simple words opened up a lot of minds because eventually it didn't mean that we would have to change as a company. We would have to change the way in which we worked. And we would have to change the technologies we would have to use to make it sustainable and make it easy for people to use. Because we understood that the way in which we were providing this service was going to be questioned and was going to be difficult to swallow going forward more and more. And we had the willingness to be around for a long time, so how could we be around if we would not be accepted by people? And that was the key to that. So doing this, we understood that shifting from a way of producing electricity that was thermal generation to renewables was not a major ideological battle, was just a way of doing our job better, cheaper, more sustainable and, and very, and, and very effectively. So that was a consequence, if you want, of that, of this major thought about why we exist and why people should be happy that we are around.

[Hoda Tahun]

And Francesco, when you talk about purpose, purpose is a, a critical part and has a major impact on culture and corporate culture. And then culture change is one of the vehicles which is usually the hardest when it comes to making a transformation and the transformation that you were at the helm of leading. How did you get the team on board with the vision and the purpose to move into the direction to become a renewable energy leader?

[Francesco Starocci]

I was lucky in a way, because the industry, not just the whole utility industry, has a deep rooted spirit of service. So it's not difficult to find people that believe they provide essential service to society and they are proud about that. It was more an issue of eliminating layers of useless stuff that was painted on top of that, like, we're here to make money, we're here to become big, we're here to be everywhere. We just went down back to, we are a service that is fundamental for society and we want to do it in a way that society accepts it more and more. So it has to be sustainable. The people had it already in them. All we had to do was just remove the dirt. Let's say there's the clutter that was in the room and just leave that there. Everybody saw it and they said, yeah, that's simple. Then how do we do it? Then? That was a bit more complex. How do we, how do we actually switch out of one thing into another after decades of a certain habit? That was hard work. I mean, they, the motivation was there already. It was just a question of remove the dust.

[Simon Kingston]

And it'd be great to unpack that a bit, Francesco, because I think many of our listeners will be thinking, gosh, he makes it sound incredibly easy. But you were doing an extraordinary thing. You were both building a company that ended up being a lot larger than it was when you were CEO, a lot more international. Operating in 30 markets and moving from a traditional producer of electricity into this host of renewables, wind and solar, hydroelectric, geothermal. How did you go through that process of growth and change while keeping that very clearly articulated focus on the purpose which comes across so, so clearly when you describe it.

[Francesco Starocci]

You know, I came to ENEL after another 20 years of work in the sector. So, you know, I reflected to what I had seen in the preceding 20 years too. And honestly, when you go back and think, you always also remember mistakes made and disasters and, and what is common within the large mistakes that this industry has made in the past. And they all go back to one major flaw, that big things are somehow easier or in way better than small things. And when I say big things, I mean big power plants, big, huge projects. They have a fascination. I mean, there is something in the minds of engineers that the bigger the better. They love it. They love it. It's, it's more complex. It's really a challenge. So it's, it's kind of magnetic in that. And I know, I am an engineer myself, I'm a nuclear engineer. So I'm super exposed to this kind of attraction. Okay. And, and then if you look back, you know, how many mistakes were made because of this? Huge mistakes. Lots of billions were written off because of this kind of approach. So basically we said we need to adapt to a world that does not accept this anymore. Maybe 50 years ago it was possible to think about something like that that extended over decades. Now it's not possible anymore. Our life is characterized by shorter cycles. And you have, you cannot fight against this. You have to adapt to this. And by the way, there's nothing wrong with that. So we took a decision that was kind of epic, that was saying we would never put our money, invest in anything that would take more than three years to be completed. And then that decision was key because it eliminated a lot of technologies that didn't fit in that. So we did not have a discussion about why this technology is good or bad. Does it fit in three years? Yes or no? Doesn't out. And that killed coal, that killed large hydroelectric dams, killed nuclear. It could, I mean, it's a, it cleaned up the slate for us. We didn't have to argue. It just said it doesn't fit in the timeline and that's not our fault, but what can we do about it? And then people said if we don't do that, how do we grow? Can we grow? Only Doing a few projects of windmills here and there, they said, not a few, you have to do hundreds of them. So you have to do, multiply the number of projects, being them small enough to fit in this three years cycle. So that changed drastically the life of management, the life of the company, because it's much more difficult. I mean, at the beginning it seems impossible to manage hundreds of projects when you only had maybe 10 big ones. And that was a major change. That was a lot of work that was amazing.

[Simon Kingston]

You very sort of modestly describe it as kind of epic, but it is a curious paradox that is in order to grow, you need to focus on smaller projects and more of them. I mean, how did that play out with your leadership? What did that mean about the team you had to build and the way they work to achieve that growth?

[Francesco Starocci]

And we didn't do it all of a sudden, we did it gradually. But at the beginning people were scared. Honestly. There was a moment where they said, it's impossible. I mean this, this means that we have to multiply ourselves by hundred. And I said, yes, maybe even a thousand, perhaps. So you have to, you have to change the way you work, the way you organize, the processes you use. You have to digitize. That brings us why we digitized so early, because without that, this could have been impossible. So you have to totally revise and change the way in which you're used to work. But I assure you it's going to be a lot funnier and you get a lot more satisfaction because during, say three years, you might finish three projects, not just go 30 percent one. That was for me the most powerful change in, in, in the operations, you know, in the, in the day to day life of people. I always said, you know, it worsened the light, the quality of life of management. By far, stress. Yeah, because you always have something going on that needs to be finished. You know, it's also, it's. But it accelerated the change in the minds of people in big way. Big, big way. And, and by the way, because for the frequency of things, it accumulated learning in a, in a much more compressed way. So people started having experiences that were amazing in a very short time.

[Simon Kingston]

We'll be right back with Francesco Starachi, but first we'll hear from Rich Fields, a managing director in our Boston office. Rich will outline how boards can leverage the immense transformational potential of AI while being mindful of the significant risks for board directors.

[Rich Fields]

How you navigate AI implementation could define your organization's future. Get it right and it can be a powerful lever for value creation. Make a wrong move and it can have legal, ethical and data privacy ramifications. Our research has found that there's a lack of confidence in the board's ability to tackle this challenge, with only 20% of leaders believing that their board has the right expertise to advise on gen AI implementation. So how do board directors close this significant gap and succeed in AI transformation? One way is to take lessons from how board directors governed a similarly transformative sustainability. Both issues require paradigm shifts in how businesses operate, how leaders manage, and how boards govern. Both can create significant value when implemented effectively. In our latest article, we share five actions board directors can take to leverage the transformational impact of AI for their organizations. To learn more about these key actions and the board's role in governing AI and sustainability, you can find the full paper via our show notes or by visiting russellreynolds.com now back to our conversation.

[Simon Kingston]

With Francesco.

[Hoda Tahun]

And you. You mentioned quite a bit the digitization piece and a lot of the efforts that were done around that. And NL installed world's first smart meters in 2001 and then moved into digitization of electricity grids, turning them into smart grids. How do you see technology continuing, particularly around the use of AI and generative AI in transforming further transformation of the energy sector?

[Francesco Starocci]

Look, we live. The utilities, ENEL in particular, live among two worlds. We cover two worlds, okay? One is the world of machines. Machines mean the assets we manage, the plants, the lines, the, the, the, the computers, the machines. Okay? The other one is the world of our customers. So we, we live among these two worlds. We, we, we use the first world to serve the second world. And that must be clear, not the other way around. Yeah, okay, because. Because there were moments where it was the other way around.

[Hoda Tahun]

Okay.

[Francesco Starocci]

Have you ever asked yourself, for example, when you change your home, you move from one apartment to another, even in the same city, served by the same supplier of energy, whatever, Amongst the various things you need to do is you have to cancel one contract and then open another one. Have you asked yourself why do you have to do that?

[Hoda Tahun]

It's a great question.

[Francesco Starocci]

It's always you, okay? And, and the other guy is always the same guy. So why do you have to do this stupid thing, which, by the way, is just a cost for everybody, for you and for them. So it's. And there is a reason that you don't actually exist. You don't exist for them. You. The emitter exists. For them. You are an appendix to the meter. Yeah, that's the reason why.

[Hoda Tahun]

Yeah. No, it Makes sense.

[Francesco Starocci]

So that is what I mean. In that world, the one that time customers were servants to the machines, they were not customers. They were end users, which is a different word. So we said the machines serve customers, not the other way around. So you have to accept that you keep changing this damn machines so that the life of customers is made simpler and easier and less expensive, not the other way around. I should say that my predecessor was a genius, and Mr. Tat was the guy that at the beginning of 2000, was so crazy to start putting digital meters in Italy when no one knew in the world why this would ever be useful. And he had an incredible vision which proved right. I mean, Italy was fully digitized in between 2000 and 2003, halfway through 2004, and it remained the only fully digitized digital distribution system for another 15 years. Okay. When we started digitizing the Spanish grid after the acquisition of Endeavor. So. And the benefits of that, the experience we had, the incredible advantages and the. And the change in mindset that this generated was what enabled us to quickly migrate to the cloud, quickly digitize a lot of stuff that helped us serve better the customers, and not better without. I remember when we started migrating to the cloud in 2015 or 14, only one supplier was around. I cannot name it, because, you know, and these. These people really were fascinated. They said, yeah, my mind, you're the first utilities ever coming to us. Do you want to migrate to the cloud? Everything. I mean, your data and your applications. I said, yes, everything. Nothing must be out of the cloud. Everything. Really? Yes. Okay, let's do it then. After the first year, they. They came to us and said, you know, guys, this is. This is too much. I mean, your cloud is too big. You. You. You are too big for us. And said, you are the only ones. It can't be you. You cannot walk away from us now. We are halfway. So tell us what you want. Whatever. We will work like crazy. But there is no way back. I mean, the ships being burned can't come back. So you have to bring us to the cloud somehow, which they did, to their credit, they did it in another year and a half. So in about three years, we went into the cloud. We were the largest cloud that they ever managed. I think we're still one of the largest clouds around. But think about it. We have readings of our customers every 15 minutes, and we have millions, tens of millions of customers, plus all the applications and everything. But doing that enabled us to accelerate the digital transformation in a big, big way, which made everything faster.

[Simon Kingston]

I mean, It's a really interesting story, Francesco, and I'm resisting the urge to make a number of Rolling Stones related references to clouds and not getting off them. But it sounds as though you are, you know, you're an optimist when it comes to the application of, of new technologies. But right now leaders are being bombarded with concerns and questions about, about generative AI, for example. I mean, and precisely the concern is sometimes that it will reverse that, that, that priority that you described of, of machine serving human. I mean, what's your feeling attitudinally, what's your feeling about whether this is a dehumanizing moment or a potentially empowering moment?

[Francesco Starocci]

First of all, I think that the percentage of people that talk about regenerative generative AI, they know what they're talking about is relatively small. I mean, there's a lot of people talking about it, not really knowing exactly what they're talking about. And I'm sorry to say that, but it, it appears like that, but it basically happens every time a new technologies appears. All of a sudden people talk about it a lot and then this fades away. So I think this debate will kind of settle gently with less hype and less noise where it actually belongs. You know, it is an enabler of progress. Yes. Like all enablers of progress, it can be used in a vicious way. Yes. But how many times have we seen this in the past? It's nothing special about this one too. It's just another one. And I'm sorry to be cynic about this. There will be people using it in a bad way. Yes. Like they did with social media. And technology is just technology. There's nothing wrong with it or bad with it or good with it. It's just the way we use it makes it change. So honestly, I think it's potentially a very powerful tool to do good things. There would be always people do using it for the wrong ends. But what can we do about that? Nothing really. Yeah. Yeah.

[Simon Kingston]

And that's really interesting because that takes us in a way into thinking about other things that are themselves morally neutral. And it's a question of how we use them. And we touched earlier on, on your involvement with a range of organizations that are in different ways, coalitions. The UN Global Compact, we talked about SE4 all we talked about the Science Based Targets initiative. What is your view of how those alliances should work? I mean, how should the international system harness the skills and the resources of the private sector in partnership to make progress on sustainability? What's the, what's your sort of theory of change there.

[Francesco Starocci]

I think there is an incredible waste of goodwill and capacity. That is a pity. You know, I think there is incredible large number of people that want to make things better, that want to improve, make more sustainable progress in general, and make our life more secure, more sound, more, More in tune with nature and in general better, let's say, without most of the private sector being fully aware of this. Okay. I think by and large the private sector should work more with these people and, and should benefit from their willingness to help and, and, and guide or enlighten in a way what, what, what the private sector could do better. And I think there is a misguided perception that it's a trade off. And I hate this word deeply. I despise it because it's really stupid. It is not a trade off. It is actually the opposite. It's an enhancement of value creation. Okay, so when people say, ah, but there is a trade off between climate and money. No, no, it's not a trade off.

[Hoda Tahun]

Francesco, you've told us a lot about the different parts of your career. Was there a redefining moment or two that helped shape your views, particularly around leadership or around sustainability?

[Francesco Starocci]

You know, there is a moment where I will say this was so early in my career that I didn't even think of it. When it happened to me, you know, when I started working in the nuclear industry and I got bored because everything was so slow, this three years thing, I had it, I had, I think. But so I left it. I left it like 8 months after I started. So I started working in construction, in the construction industry. And I. One day I was told, you go in this construction site In Saudi Arabia, 400 kilometers south of Jeddah, clear, near the Yemeni border, and you will be the technical office manager. Because I had done. I was just a young engineer. I had done the design for this plant. It was a G plant. So I went there and when I arrived after a long ride in the desert, the road was not even finished. When we got there, there was the site manager, which was. We came, became friend, obviously. He said, hi, good, you arrived. Fantastic. But, you know, yesterday the construction manager resigned. And so maybe you will be. The construction manager said, look, I've never seen even a welding machine in my life. You must be nuts. He said, no, don't worry, it's going to be fine. So this was an incredible discovery that I could do it. Actually, we did a pretty good job. We finished the planting budget anytime. So two years, less than three, I'm.

[Hoda Tahun]

Seeing a theme that was for me.

[Francesco Starocci]

An incredible moment of discovery of what mankind can do if properly motivated. And of course it was a big team effort. So I mean, that was for me an incredible opening that I basically, I could do many, many things. By the way, I reflected on this plant later. It was one of the most unsustainable, completely unsustainable projects you could think of. This was burning crude oil, but it was in the 80s, it was in the 80s, so no one cared. It was gas turbine burning crude oil that was tracked from Jeddah to the plant with trucks which unloaded. Then this stuff burned. And by the time it was finished, we could not test it because there was not even demand for this power plant. It was just it because there was a plan to build a city with air conditioning so that certain nomadic tribes would be forced to stop moving around and put them, and put them into air conditioning homes. So it's like the 180 degree unsustainable project you can think of. And I was so proud that I did it. So that's another reflection how many things you do that have different values over the years.

[Simon Kingston]

Francesco, as you know, Climate Week is underway as we broadcast. And it's an extraordinarily important moment where thousands of leaders from business, from government and from civil society come together to talk about the world's progress on the Sustainable Development Goals in general and on climate change in particular. You've been an important voice in many of these discussions in the past. What do you hope for this year and what do you expect?

[Francesco Starocci]

Look, I think this year, because we're Preparing also for COP, the COP 29 is, is right away the issue that was left open was the point of how do the. Say there is this word Global south, but let's say how do emerging economies participate in the decarbonization journey? Because without them this is not going to be finished. And do they find the money to do that? Do they find the funds to, to really do this properly? And who can help them? And do you remember this was a discussion that was more or less well structured during the last call, but not fully so I think, I hope that the focus will be how to finally close the loop and say the funding, how does it get raised and how does it get channeled into right projects for the Global south so that we don't have, let's say, 10 years from now, how do we decarbonize the Global south that in the meantime has gone the wrong way. So let's try to make it proper that there Is the same mistake was made in the north, it's not done again in the South. I think that, I think would be kind of a good progress already. Yeah.

[Simon Kingston]

And how confident are you that the era of double standards on that from countries in the global north towards low and middle income countries is over?

[Francesco Starocci]

I think it's in the hands of basically China and India by and large. I mean, Europe is in that for sure and the US probably would follow. So I think it's really not, it's not impossible. I think it's quite possible, actually, much more than it was, say three, four years ago.

[Simon Kingston]

But as you say, there's a group of leaders now able to make that happen, perhaps more prominent than was the case before.

[Francesco Starocci]

If you look back, there were, there was denial until recently, and this denial is gone. It's already a major progress. Then you say, okay, we know there is a problem, but who solves it at what cost? And if that is a cost, or rather like I say, an investment. So do we want to invest in our future or do we see that only as a cost? It's a big difference, you know, So I think it's a question, do we want to invest in this? And I think if you put that question out there, how, who can say no?

[Hoda Tahun]

Francesco, this has been absolutely fascinating as a conversation and we like to end each podcast with some rapid fire questions to get to know you a little bit better. This is where we ask you a series of questions and you respond as quickly as possible with the first thing that comes to mind. Are you ready? Okay, first question. You speak four languages. English, Italian, Spanish and French. Is there another language you would like to learn?

[Francesco Starocci]

I would like to learn Russian.

[Hoda Tahun]

Tell us why.

[Francesco Starocci]

Because I think we need to speak a lot more between us and them.

[Hoda Tahun]

It's a great point.

[Simon Kingston]

What is one piece of advice you would give to a leader going through a business transformation?

[Francesco Starocci]

Think about what the company looks like without you. I mean, think about what the company was before you, before you, not with you, before you. And then understand it deeply. Because if you think about you and the company, you think about you only think about the company without you, and that's a lot easier.

[Hoda Tahun]

What do you wish you learned sooner?

[Francesco Starocci]

Well, I, I wish I would have understood sooner how this sustainability game was. I think I was late. I should have done it in the 90s, not in the 2010. Something like that. So that, that I think I would have avoided some mistakes.

[Simon Kingston]

If you were to give a book to every member of your team, which would it be? And why?

[Francesco Starocci]

There is a book that I read and read again that is a fascinating book from a journalist. His name is Ed Conway and it's about materials, materials that shape the world. I think something like that. That's the title. I recommend everyone to read it. It's about six materials that are the basis of our civilization. Is an amazing read. Amazing. It's incredible discovery.

[Simon Kingston]

Which leader, which other leader do you admire most?

[Francesco Starocci]

I admire incredibly Kemal Ataturk. If you think what it did in.

[Hoda Tahun]

A very short time, that's a change transformation.

[Francesco Starocci]

Yeah. Think about when it happened and in what time frame and what magnitude of change. Amazing.

[Hoda Tahun]

And overall, are you optimistic or pessimistic about the climate crisis?

[Francesco Starocci]

I'm optimistic about the climate crisis. I think there is a chance. Really there is. And by the way, it's because technology works in an exponential fashion. So change that with. If we look back and we say inertially, we're not going to make it, but if you look forward the way which things unfold, you can make it because it's exponentially driven. So I'm optimistic.

[Simon Kingston]

Francesco, thank you. That optimism is a theme as we look back on the conversation that's run through it from the beginning. And that discovery of a mission that was to empower sustainable progress to the way in which you changed how people think about the nature of growth. I love the idea of thinking small in order to grow large. The magic of the three year window for change, the optimism about technology as you've used it and as the world can use it when harnessed. The optimism about the possibility of collaboration between sectors and between leaders, north and south, to deliver. And that optimism you gave us just now about humanity's capacity to address climate change, you, and we've referred to it earlier, you, you very modestly said it was kind of epic and it kind of is epic listening to you talk about what is possible. So thank you.

[Francesco Starocci]

Well, Simon and hola. Thank you so much. Been a pleasure to to chat with you.

[Hoda Tahun]

Thank you so much. Francesco. Thanks for joining us on this episode of Redefiners. For more compelling insights from leaders across industries and around around the world. Listen to Redefiners wherever you get your.

[Clark Murphy]

Podcasts and to learn more or to get in contact with us, visit our [e-mail] find us on LinkedIn and follow us on X formerly known as Twitter raonLeadership.