← Redefiners
Redefiners
Redefiners 2025 Wrapped: What's Next for Leaders
00:46:19
There was no shortage of challenges for leaders in 2025, as they navigated a year filled with uncertainty and change. Leaders’ skills were tested as they steered their organizations through changes in the global economy, geopolitics, AI transformat...
Loading summary
Transcript91 lines
- [00:00]
A
Call them change makers.
- [00:02]
B
Call them rule breakers.
- [00:03]
A
We call them redefiners. Hello, everyone, and welcome to our end of year Reflections episode of Redefiners Season 5. I'm Marla Oates, a leadership advisor at Russell Reynolds Associates. Joining me for this very special episode is my festive and fantastic co host, Simon Kingston.
- [00:28]
B
Hello, Marla. Great to see you again.
- [00:30]
A
It's so good to see you, Simon. Before we get started, a quick reminder that you can find all episodes of Redefiners and Leadership Lounge on YouTube. If you're watching on YouTube, just hit that subscribe button so you don't miss a single episode. And for our audio listeners, don't forget to rate redefiners. Wherever you get your podcasts, we love to see your feedback. End of year is often a time of reflection for many people as life slows down and we get a chance to just take a step back and think about what's happened over the last year. And a lot has happened, Simon, over this past year certainly has, Marla.
- [01:06]
B
And this is one of those episodes that I think is unique because we've got a chance to reflect on this extraordinary cast of characters, these leaders who've given us and our listeners their time, and to think a little bit about some of the pearls of wisdom that they've shared with us, some of the vulnerabilities that they've shared with us. And that, in a sense, is a reminder to us, and I certainly think of it myself. It's a chance to remember, to stay curious, to stay intrigued, and to stay open to learning new things about the art and science of leadership. Why don't we take a couple of minutes ourselves to reflect on what we've learned, learned what we consider our accomplishments to be great in your case, modest in mine. Let me go first, and I think of the three or four things that have been accomplished or achieved this year. They're a sort of window on the privilege that we have at Russell Reynolds Associates in serving the kind of clients that we do and working with them. So one that stands out for me was speaking opposite the former president of Colombia, President Duquet, in Mexico and then in Monterrey. And that was at the invitation of our Mexican colleagues who co host with McKinsey a board leadership event. Each year, hearing his views on the world from a completely different perspective to mine were humbling and really, really fascinating. I've also loved seeing colleagues in our global development and advocacy and philanthropy practice pivot in the face of really difficult market conditions. I helped set up that practice, but it's grown way beyond me and their skill, their maturity, their dexterity leaves me feeling really pleased at the services that we can offer to that sector and our clients. And then I guess in my personal life with my wife, I run a history festival as listeners with long memories will remember in West Cork and we hosted some really interesting discussions this year, including on some quite vexed questions in relation to Irish neutrality. That got pretty lively. Got some interesting coverage. So Marla, that's my list. What about you?
- [03:24]
A
What an incredible list, Simon. Thank you for sharing. Look, this year has been a special one full of moments that really reminded me why I love what I do. I was proud to welcome our newest partners and those joining the firm in beautiful Seville, Spain. Such an exciting time celebrating our new partners here in Austin. I hosted my fifth annual Women's Leadership Dinner, which is something I always look forward to. And on a more personal note, after seven years together, seeing my project coordinator Savannah become a first time mom was really special. As a busy working mom myself, I'm also proud that I managed to rearrange my schedule to make both of my girls field trips here in Austin. Those memories mean the world to me. Based on our shortlist, Simon A lot happened for us this past year, but I think we can all agree that even more happened in the world. If you don't like change and uncertainty, 2025 was probably a rough year for you.
- [04:18]
B
It's true, Marla. And I think that overall theme of a kind of radical uncertainty in the world was very clear throughout. And that was very evident in our Global Leadership Monitor study because as listeners will know, we asked leaders to think about their top organizational priorities regardless of the sector they're in, and then critically how prepared or not they feel to deal with them. And I think it won't now come as any surprise to people to hear that joint first place in terms of leaders sense of priorities were the uncertain economic growth situation in which they find themselves and the extent and the profundity of the technological change that they were facing. So they were in the number one spot. Availability of talent in order to help those organizations to deal with those challenges was in third. Geopolitical uncertainty, hardly a surprise, was in fourth. And policy uncertainty in all of its forms came at number five. And in looking just at at the technological change part of that, perhaps the thing that is most universal, the confidence that leaders felt in their organization's ability to respond has really dropped. It's only 44%. That's the lowest level since we started doing these surveys through The Global leadership monitor and 74% of leaders believe that their organizations will simply cease to exist unless they can grasp the need for transformation. So they're not feeling confident for the most part about their ability to deal with it and they recognize that it's an existential challenge over the next decade.
- [06:03]
A
You know, Simon, the findings from the Global Leadership Monitor reflect much of what we've heard in our conversations with Redefiner's guests this past year. From those conversations, four main themes stood out for me. First, AI and transformation. How leaders are really grappling with the incredible pace of technological change. Two, stepping into a new CEO role. We had the pleasure of hosting Several first time CEOs on Redefiners this past year. Three, succession planning and how organizations are planning for leadership development in their organizations. And lastly, leadership and board dynamics, especially when it comes to shifts in global markets and the geopolitical landscape, which are forcing leaders to adapt quicker than ever. I think the question for leaders facing so many challenges is where to start.
- [06:49]
B
It really is, and I guess one place where we should start, because we've already touched on it two or three times, is AI and transformation. It was a topic that was. We didn't really need to bring it up. It's on the minds of leaders in every sector and probably every part of the world, how they adjust to it. And what's really clear as you touched on earlier on, was that it's moving at such a pace that the risks of failing to keep up are really very apparent for a lot of business leaders. But it's also more than that. And again, I think this comes out in our Global Leadership Monitor. This is something where many of the lessons that leaders might have learned in past cycles or in dealing with other kinds of challenges simply don't apply. We're having to both adapt and apply the technology at extraordinary speed. And that means that some of the concepts we use to think about success or otherwise in our teams are changing. Louis Taitu, who you and I both spoke to, the former CEO and current chairman of coveo, had a great way of analyzing this. He really succinctly described what's at stake for leaders and their teams when it comes to AI.
- [08:04]
C
Suddenly, now we're in the world of proficiency gains, not efficiency. So if you have 10,000 employees, what happens when every employee can hand 30% more complexity, 50% more of the time, 90% faster? That's what we're talking about. And so the world's going to be divided between the AI adopters and, and non AI adopters. And I, I always say, AI or die. It's going to be the greatest competitive divide in, in business that we will have ever seen.
- [08:31]
A
That quote really stood out to me. AI or die. I love it. So blunt, but also really true. Goldman Sachs CIO Marco Argenti certainly knows about transformation. In fact, he's gone through several tech revolutions during his career, including the launch of the Internet, mobile, cloud computing, digital transformation, and now AI transformation. In a special Redefiners in Studio conversation, Marco shared his lessons on how and when to use technology to solve business problems.
- [09:01]
C
One mechanism that really I tried to focus on, that I kind of borrowed a little bit from Amazon, is the working backwards mechanism where you are asking engineers to really put themselves in the shoes of the customer or the client and really ask yourself client centric questions such as, who's your customer? What is really the problem opportunity that you're trying to solve? And how do you know that there is a problem or opportunity? How do you measure the return on investment and how the experience looks like before you write the first line of code? And I think another way to put that engineers tend to be naturally attracted towards the how. Sometimes the how is, oh, I found this new tool. It's amazing. I love it. I just want to try to find.
- [09:50]
B
Where I can use that.
- [09:52]
C
And so the classic sort of a natural mentality of engineers is how, what, why? And I think what, you know, working backwards means is that you do why, what, how?
- [10:04]
B
Right, right, right, right.
- [10:06]
C
And so that I think was also something that was one of the big directives of, of, you know, like a cultural transformation to write. Because definitely you can be technical or non technical, but you definitely meet in the conversation at the why point. Because the why is where the client is and where the business opportunity is.
- [10:26]
A
Marco makes such a great point. Just because a technology or tool is popular doesn't mean it's the right solution. Leaders and teams need to think about what they're trying to solve before they go about proposing solutions. In the famous words of Abraham Maslow, if the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.
- [10:46]
B
It's really true, Marla. And I think as leaders experiment with and adopt AI, many of them are finding that it's the existing internal barriers to sharing knowledge and IP that is part of the challenge. That data, which is often sitting in organizations but not necessarily shared across them, is the fuel for AI. And to deliver a return on what's an enormous investment, they have to tap into it and that can be really, really challenging for global businesses that have multiple divisions across multiple geographies. And that's something that Bain Capital's co managing partner, John Connorton talked about when he was describing how they're trying to get real value from AI by breaking down exactly those barriers in order for.
- [11:35]
C
Us to be successful. Probably the greatest learning ground for our success will be the fact that we have 200 companies we control, we have 400 investments, the amount of trial experimentation, learning models for extrapolation inside our enterprise and also inside other companies that we own. It's an amazingly important time. But it's hard to do that centrally, completely. You have to have a centralized way of leveraging that. But we're trying to take that experimentation and then be fast adopters and fast exploiters of, of things that work, all the while realizing that that could be a tool that changes very much in the next three months. So the good news about what we've built, I think, is that we are very seamless across our portfolio and deal teams, across our different geographies, across our different business units, across our different verticals. So tech and consumer and tech and healthcare. And so the way that we've tried to exploit that is to really break down the walls that sit between some of that learning.
- [12:43]
A
Leaders are experiencing deja vu. And this all sounds similar to the digital transformation of the past decade. But I think this AI revolution that we're all experiencing is really marking a turning point about how leaders should be thinking about transformation. Leaders today are being challenged more than ever in this perpetual transformation cycle. And they need to be able to manage that evolution and influence across their teams. Keeping ahead of the transformation has become really mission critical for these leaders. Hedy Pie from our London office talked about this on Leadership Lounge. She had advice on how to build a culture that thrives in continuous change. Transformation is now a constant. It's here to stay. It's not some episodic period of change that starts, has a beginning, middle and an end. If I think about how to typify how we see the best leaders, and particularly CEOs, leading into this, we have.
- [13:46]
C
A phrase for them which we call.
- [13:47]
A
The North Star CEO.
- [13:49]
C
And what does that mean?
- [13:50]
A
That means it's your ability to be able to present in a really concise, compelling, but consistent way what your ultimate ambition, your goal, your vision is for an organization. However, at the same time, you've got.
- [14:05]
C
The dexterity to be able to tack.
- [14:06]
A
Nigh on continuously in service of that.
- [14:09]
C
Ultimate goal and ambition.
- [14:11]
B
And one of our redefiners guests also talked about that concept of being a North Star CEO that Hetty mentioned. Barbara Martin Coppola, the former CEO of Decathlon, the largest retailer of sporting goods in the world, used exactly that concept in motivating her staff. And she talked about how powerful it was.
- [14:34]
C
The North Star is like a manifesto. It's an inspiring piece of video and narrative that will project people into the future of what decathlon can do for societies and for the planet alike. And that moment was really inspiring. And then from that we started defining the strategy so we knew where we were going long term as a North Star. And somehow that inspired and widened actually.
- [15:05]
A
The playing field for Decathlon to start writing the strategic pillars. I loved meeting Barbara and I think having a North Star in any organization is really critical, especially when it comes to transformation. It it's tough to stay on top of the changing behavior of people who are really trying to adapt. And changing how things are done doesn't just happen because the CEO says it should. As she shared with us, this is especially true when you're trying to adjust for a new mandate or change at an organization. Frankly, we've found when we looked at the research, that there are three types of inertia that organizations face during a transformation. Inside inertia, which is really a lack of awareness or unwillingness on the team to change. Psychological inertia, which is the comfort of status quo, basically using the same tools and processes. And then lastly, it's that action inertia where there's the gap between intention and execution. Leaders may want to change and may not want to, but they have to have the ability to take and sustain those actions. World Bank President Ajay Banga had to overcome some of these challenges when he took on the role in 2023. He came in with this bold mandate to create a world free of poverty, focusing on job creation, not just the operations, but how do we get this culture, this 80 year old culture to really change? He shared some advice on how to get everyone aligned and on the same page from day one.
- [16:42]
B
First is make sure you speak about it frequently without getting tired about it in the simplest possible terms so that the junior most employee and the senior most employee, all your stakeholders, can engage with you. The second one is try and create the right measurement systems. So for example, we now have a monthly KPI deck which is shared across the entire institution across those five silos so that we're all talking the same numbers, get to measure the same things. So as you say, if you don't measure it, you're not going to fix it. And so that's the second piece. The third one is organizational alignment through organization structure. We're cutting silos across the institution through common country managers, common middle and back offices, a common knowledge bank, that kind of thing, a common treasury. And then the fourth item is, how do you reward the people who embrace this more than others do? How do you reward those who drive cultural change in the right way? And how do you give them the careers that they deserve and want? RJ is an extraordinary leader playing one of the most consequential roles, I think, in the planet at the moment. And he makes an amazing point there. I think about the idea that change is a process, not an event. It's a journey. And like all journeys, it has twists and turns along the way. But every one of those leadership journeys has a beginning. And that was probably the second big theme for us in 2025, that idea of being a CEO, the experience of being a CEO for the first time and what that felt like. Several of our guests talked about their experience and offered a little bit of the benefit of 2020 hindsight to people who might try and do the same thing. And amongst them, and this remains one of the things I resent about the organizers of Redefiners putting me on the spot in having a conversation with our own CEO, Constantine Alexandraakis, on my own. But anyway, he was very gentle and very kind and very thoughtful as he shared his experience about what came to him as a surprise about taking on the CEO role. Amongst other things, many of us thought.
- [19:05]
C
Of the CEO role as a bigger job than our previous role. But the reality is that it's not a bigger job. It's a completely different job. The way you think about things, the way you get things done, the things that you get done, those are all very different. And, you know, perhaps naively, that was a surprise for me, but it's also something I've heard from many, many other CEOs across industries who came into the role from not having been a CEO before.
- [19:33]
A
Yes, you and Konstantin both did a great job. And look, the CEO of Pets at Home, Lisa McGowan, who we also hosted, certainly agreed with that sentiment. She talked about what it was like stepping into her leadership role after serving in C suite roles in the telecom industry. I often talk about the CEO role as not, it's not kind of quantitatively different. I thought it'd be 30% harder than a divisional like, you know, owner or executive. And it's not any percent harder. It's Just a completely different role. And like with any transition, what gets you to be successful in your old role is almost the thing that will hold you back in your new role. In the words of Marshall Goldsmith, what got you here won't get you there. So how do new CEOs learn and master the role in such a time of incredible change and uncertainty? It turns out that several sections of the CEO playbook that were used by your predecessor likely aren't right for you for the future.
- [20:35]
B
That's right. The question never remains the same for any leader, and certainly not for CEOs. And it's even more the case when you're moving between sectors, because what you may have learned in one industry, and indeed practiced with success, will look very different in terms of the situation you encounter in a new place. Leaders making that kind of industry sector shift face even more challenges when it comes to getting up to speed quickly. But there are also, as we discovered, some advantages to being an outsider removed from the groupthink, removed from the preconceived ideas of people who may see themselves as sector specialists and therefore possibly able to be more nimble and more imaginative and just maybe a little more courageous than leaders who have been schooled within a single sector. And we had a, and he'll forgive us for saying it, a superhero sized example of that with the turnaround expert and former president and CEO of Marvel Entertainment, Peter Cuneo. Peter talked about having the perspective of a newcomer really helped him to prioritize the greater good, to give people hope and to inspire his team into action and to completely, frankly, reshape a sector.
- [21:52]
C
Let's say that the culture of Marvel became, and I was very lucky. I had a lot of people already in the organization and on the board who believed in this. The culture became, we will change the rules of the game. We're not going to do anything the way other people in these industries do. We're not going to make movies the way the big studios do. We're not going to make comic books the way other people do. We're going to do it differently for various reasons, and we think we can do it differently. And as a new person not knowing anything about making movies or publishing comic books, this was great for me to look at and see, okay, yeah, why can't we do it this way?
- [22:35]
A
I really enjoyed meeting Peter. He had to make these major and often risky decisions without having any history, let alone any industry expertise. So how does a new leader gain that confidence and knowledge in order to make those high stakes decisions? Frankly, One piece of advice we talked about on the leadership lounge is to find yourself a mentor. Someone who can provide a battle tested wisdom while serving as a strategic partner. Somebody who's going to challenge you in the assumptions that you make. Our leadership advisor Kurt Harrison talked about why having a mentor is so critical for any CEO or frankly, C suite leader today.
- [23:15]
B
The nature of leadership challenges has fundamentally shifted from what were episodic crises to what has become really a period of sustained uncertainty which shows no sign of abating anytime soon. You know, many current C suite executives rose through the ranks during pretty stable environments, benefiting from a fairly positive macroeconomic backdrop, slow and steady growth that has radically changed over the past year, and mentors who have successfully navigated multiple economic cycles can really bring invaluable pattern recognition advice and counsel to new enroll CEOs. Our mentees truly value the perspectives of leaders who have, quote, unquote, been there and done that right. These individuals have been through the fire and emerged stronger. New CEOs certainly can benefit from pattern recognition shortcuts as they come to grips with the details of both business and a new role. But there is nevertheless a foundational element that leadership advisor Henrik Kojawski says many new CEOs overlook as they take on a new role.
- [24:32]
C
I'd say the single most overlooked factor in getting a new CEO up to speed quickly is demonstrating vulnerability. As one client recently told me, Henrik, why would I start my tenure saying what I didn't know, what I'm bad at? Wouldn't that affect people's confidence in me? And the answer is no. Imagine who you gravitate to more. Someone who has all the answers, sits on high, and never seems to have a down moment. Or someone like the rest of us who is sometimes uncertain, sometimes wrong, and sometimes needs help. The fact is, vulnerability is the root of charisma, and true confidence is really knowing oneself and having enough value to state what you're good at and what you're bad at. Employees ultimately will run through walls for a leader like that.
- [25:20]
A
For anyone interested in reading more about how to land their first CEO role, you have to read the New CEO by my wonderful colleague Ty Wiggins. Ty did such a great job explaining how to avoid those common mistakes new CEOs make. Starting out on the right foot can be challenging for new CEOs. Where do you begin? It's a lot to take in, a lot to learn. How do you operate in this new role? But CEOs need to think not just about what's happen in the present, but what they need to do in the future and really being mindful of the long term planning. Because identifying and developing the next gen of leadership talent isn't just important, as we know Simon, it's really critical. That brings us to our third theme from 2025 succession planning and why organizations need to have a plan in place. The succession planning topic came up in a recent Leadership Lounge episode we hosted with advisor Rebecca Slan Jerusalem. She talked about the common mistakes leaders make when it comes to succession planning. One common mistake I see is organizations seeing succession planning as an exercise really in replacement planning, that is who will fall into what roles or what boxes on the org chart. It's really important to emphasize that if done well, succession really encompasses development over the long term. That means that the organization is actively identifying key talent on a regular basis and actively actively providing them with development opportunities and experiences that allow them to grow. Too often succession is really a check the box exercise at a critical point in time as opposed to having a long term focus.
- [27:00]
B
CEO succession planning is complex and mission critical in any organization in the corporate world, but it has a particular dimension to it. In the case of family enterprises, they've got a very distinct set of challenges that their leaders need to navigate as they seek to preserve the legacy of past generations and handed on ideally an even greater strength than they inherited it. So Those family enterprise CEOs always have deep emotional ties to their businesses and to the people who inhabit them. But they also necessarily have to navigate an even more complex set of family dynamics and tensions that may surface when you begin to think about internal successes and indeed how they stack up against an external field. So it's understandable that many family enterprise CEOs choose to delay. They hold off. But that apparently easy way out isn't the right thing to do for a business when it comes to CEO succession in any sector. Unfortunately, they can have the benefit of the wisdom of our great colleague Justice o'. Brien. He gave us some advice for family businesses and they seek to thrive over multiple generations. I mean, the one thing we hear consistently as we talk to family businesses around the world is the importance of thinking about succession. And it doesn't matter whether it's first generation, second generation, or even more evolved family businesses that have professional management in place. It's critically important not to delay CEO succession. It's not something people generally want to deal with unless they're in a crisis mode. And if there's good leadership in place, there's a tendency, a natural tendency to sort of put that off. You need to start this work early and only by starting early can you think through what the needs of the business are going to be in terms of your leadership requirements and really start thinking about who you've got internally. Start to plan, put together development plans for those individuals with enough time for them to really realize their full potential and through those activities, be ready for that eventuality of having to switch out a CEO.
- [29:18]
A
Justice makes such a great point. Succession planning starts with developing the next generation of leaders and then giving them the opportunity to step into more increasingly complex and challenging roles because no leader arrives at the top fully formed. Former head of corporate development at Mars, Valerie Mars agrees. In our conversation with her, she shared her advice to other family owned businesses that are facing succession planning and multi generational challenges.
- [29:46]
C
I don't think one family's answer is the same for other families. There's a time in every business where you're no longer the best holder of those assets because it's destroying the family. And I think sometimes the assets prioritized over the human capital, the people, their humanity. You're not an organ donor to the business. It's the other way around. You are a human being. We as family owners need to get ourselves out of, quite frankly, our own heads and egos and thinking these are kids, they're not, they're adults and, and they're in the prime of their lives, in the prime of their creativity. That doesn't mean that a little wisdom doesn't go some way to helping, but it's a balance of those things, not a waiting for the oldest generation to die.
- [30:45]
A
Our fourth and final theme is leadership and boards and how they navigated a shifting global landscape in 2025. It used to be that every startup company was driving towards an exit, and for many entrepreneurs and investors that exit meant an ipo. But times and markets have changed so vastly and leaders and boards are really starting to weigh the pros and cons of what it means to be public. In another special Redefiners episode in studio conversation, NASDAQ CEO Adena Friedman sat down with Clark and shared her advice for CEOs who are really considering going public versus staying private. She reframes the thoughts around going public not as a destination, but rather as a next step for your business.
- [31:29]
C
Going from being a private company to a public company is like going from driving on a country road where you're.
- [31:34]
A
Winding your way through. You know where your destination is, but you don't quite know how you're going to get there. And you might take a turn or.
- [31:39]
C
Two along the way, but you can.
- [31:41]
A
Also pick your speed. You don't really have. You know, there's a lot of different elements to driving on a country road. And then being public is like getting onto that four lane highway and you have a lot more rules. You're going a lot faster. You have to make sure you're looking left and right. You have to know you probably have a better sense of what that next turn's going to be.
- [31:59]
B
When Adina talks about going faster, it does make me think about the pace of the career of another one of our guests, Bill Rode. Bill, in an extraordinary career, launched more channels than anybody else in television history, including household names like mtv, Nickelodeon, and Comedy Central. And some of our listeners will remember, and some of them will have read about the real significance of the arrival of Western music to Eastern bloc countries brought there by Bill and his colleagues. And it earned him the sobriquet Missile man from President Gorbachev because he said it was the impact of that cultural encounter that did more to bring down the Berlin Wall and end the Soviet empire than anything else. Bill also was deeply committed throughout his career and following his executive career to other kinds of social impact. He launched and chaired MTV Staying Alive foundation, which was one of the longest multimedia campaigns to tackle the AIDS pandemic. And over the course of that career that went from a military career through the music industry to global public health. Unsurprisingly, Bill collected a lot of lessons on leadership, 20 different leadership traits that he describes in his book what Makes Business Rock. But and this is the encouraging thing for people who can't remember two things, let alone 20, he told us actually what you have to do to use those leadership traits.
- [33:33]
C
I think leadership does have nuance, but probably the most important thing is it's so easy to make a list of leadership principles. I was never a natural leader. I, because I researched and I read, went to West Point, I could make a list all day long of leadership principles. The key is wake up in the morning and do them, or do one or two have the discipline, the discipline to actually employ those leadership principles.
- [34:04]
A
That was a great conversation with Bill Simon. And since I know you are both fans of Winston Churchill, I'm going to share one of those quotes to introduce this next clip. Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts. Churchill is, of course, talking about resilience. Another critical factor for leaders operating in this crazy changing landscape, having the ability to shift the goal post after success is bounce back from setbacks thrive under pressure. It's no longer a crucial leadership skill. It's frankly table stakes these days. In our research we have come to the conclusion that having drive and resilience are two of the top five skills that leaders need in today's fast paced world. Joey Burke, one of our leadership advisors, talked about how resilience has changed over time and what leaders need to do to weather the storm of change and not get swept away.
- [35:00]
C
Resilience is an age old concept. What has changed over time is organizational dynamics and therefore the qualities of resilience that are needed. For example, organizations in the past were differentiated based on consistency. An organization's ability to show up the same way every single day, year in and year out, is what allowed them to differentiate themselves in the market. Resilience, therefore looked like discipline and looked like showing up with that consistency to enable the organization to perform. Today's environment is completely different. The external environment is moving so quickly, the external pressures are impacting our organization so rapidly that consistency doesn't work anymore. Adaptability, change, speed, these are the things that differentiate the organizations of the present. These are the qualities that are needed in today's leadership that move us forward.
- [35:59]
B
Another one of my favorite Churchill quotes, because I feel I live it all the time, is his second definition of success. Success, he said, is going from one failure to the next with no loss of enthusiasm. And at its heart, that's about resilience, the thing that Joey was talking about. And it's something that every board and every entrepreneur needs to possess as they'll have to overcome a whole variety of challenges and setbacks and failures along their way to success. Resilience is something that boards as a collective also need as they advise and guide and work with an executive team in growing and evolving a business. It's something that Coveo chair Louis Tetu, from whom we heard earlier, has also learned a lot over the course of his career. He shared a few thoughts with us on what goes into building a successful board.
- [36:55]
C
What's dangerous is when you know enough about something to think you're right, but not quite enough to think you could be wrong. I've seen board members behave that way because they understand 98% and I didn't say 90. They understand 98% of the business. But you know what? Every business is built in the long tail, in the understanding of the last 2%. Everybody can grasp 98% of a business. If you're at it, the winning businesses understand the last 2%. I, I've, I've believed that you know, all through my career, I've seen that true excellence happens in the long tail, and it's. It's in the intricate moments that you win.
- [37:37]
A
He gave great advice. And we also talked about what makes for a successful board member in our leadership lounge. Maggie Bankhart. She's an advisor in her New York office. She shared some timely research on the topic.
- [37:49]
C
We do a study every three years here at Russell Reynolds, where we survey over a thousand board directors to examine the behaviors they see from their peers. And we compare those answers against company performance and board effectiveness. When we do that, we find that five behaviors set the most effective directors apart from others. These are individuals with sound judgment and relevant expertise. They constructively engage, challenging their peers and management when appropriate. They also demonstrate integrity and the courage to do the right thing for the right reasons. They can also focus and they ask the right questions. And finally, they bring an independent perspective that avoids groupthink and prioritizes the interests of shareholders and other stakeholders.
- [38:33]
A
What really stood out to me from Maggie's comment is her point about striking the right balance between being challenging but also being supportive. It's about pushing the executive management to be the best that they can be while still being encouraging.
- [38:47]
B
And as if you hadn't had enough. For those of you who are pushing yourselves to be the best you can be by considering a job change in the new year, NASDAQ CEO Adina Friedman had some advice just for you.
- [39:00]
A
Well, I think first, it's important to. When you're choosing to go to a company, you're not just going for the job that you're walking into, but you're.
- [39:09]
C
Going for the opportunity that could be there. And so you have to understand the.
- [39:13]
A
Company you're going into.
- [39:14]
C
Do you believe in what they do? Do you like the people around you?
- [39:17]
A
Have you done enough research to know.
- [39:19]
C
If they have opportunity in front of them? Are you there to fix something? Are you there to drive something?
- [39:24]
A
Are you there to make change?
- [39:26]
C
But recognizing that there's an opportunity that.
- [39:28]
A
You'Re walking into, so what is that opportunity in front of you?
- [39:31]
C
And so once you're there, the first.
- [39:33]
A
Thing to do is do a great job on your job. And if your career aspirations include ascending to that hallowed CEO role, you may want to read through Peter Cuneo's superhero leadership essentials. I thought his advice on being comfortable with being unpopular was especially important.
- [39:52]
C
You're going to make people unhappy and they're not going to like you. You going to be unpopular? Even good change will upset human beings and you have to be comfortable with that. Otherwise you cannot be an effective leader, at least not in turnarounds. You know, leadership. The key one of you mentioned in talking about leadership earlier mentioned the word courage, and that's the one. If I had to pick one word to go with leadership, it would be, you need to have courage. Because change requires courage. And many people are poor leaders because they just can't bring themselves to be unpopular, to upset other people and make the changes that are needed. So I think that is the hardest one of all.
- [40:39]
A
It's true change requires courage. With that in mind, Simon, we're going to need a bit of courage for our own. We've been asked by our Redefiners team to once again put ourselves in the shoes of our guests, to experience what rapid fire questions really feel like. As our viewers and listeners know, we're going to ask each other a series of questions and we'll each need to respond as quickly as possible in one sentence or less. Simon, are you ready?
- [41:05]
B
More or less.
- [41:07]
A
All right. What is your favorite holiday food or drink with Christmas just around the corner?
- [41:13]
B
It's a cliche, but I do love a pint of stout and fresh mussels. My turn. Marla, what is your favourite holiday song? And you get extra points if you're prepared to sing a line of it.
- [41:27]
A
I will skip the extra points, but I'll probably go with Wham. Last Christmas seasonal. Simon, which character from a holiday movie do you relate to the most?
- [41:41]
B
Well, I'm going to say Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer because frequently my nose is red in the holiday season.
- [41:46]
A
I have noticed that during our podcast together.
- [41:49]
B
Finish the sentence, Marla. It wouldn't be the holidays without family.
- [41:54]
A
It wouldn't be the holidays without family. Simon, with a new year on the horizon, what is one of your goals for 2026?
- [42:02]
B
Well, I'm really hoping to see my daughter triumph in her theatrical efforts at school. And I'm also hoping that this strategic intelligence idea for philanthropies will prove useful to them.
- [42:17]
A
It will, no doubt.
- [42:18]
B
What is one of your goals for 2026? Mala?
- [42:22]
A
For 2026, I think it's help more leaders reach the top. That's the privilege of the job we get to do. And so every new client, every repeat client, every board member we have, it's really an opportunity to help leaders continue to evolve.
- [42:39]
B
Great. We talk a lot about adapting to change and uncertainty. And I think, Marlo, we did pretty well. And I nonetheless feel that I no longer want to be on the receiving end of rapid fire questions I'd much rather be asking them. What about you?
- [42:54]
A
No, I agree. Look, that wraps up season five of Redefiners and Leadership Lounge. And as we come to the end of this year, hopefully we've all come away a little wiser, a little more hopeful, and a little more grateful for friends and loved ones. Before we go, we wanted to share some news with you with Simon redefining his own career journey. My trusty Redefiner partner will be stepping away from the mic in 2026. Simon, do you want to share anything with our listeners before you sign off? One last time?
- [43:25]
B
First of all, to say they're in very safe hands with you, Marla, and the rest of the team. You're fantastic at this. You'll be be brilliant at drawing out from our guests those insights that are so useful to our listeners. I think what I'd like to say is to express gratitude. I really am grateful to our subjects, victims, guests who've been willing to talk to us so freely, so openly. And as we said earlier on, the best conversations have been ones where people have talked about their vulnerabilities. I'm really grateful to all of our colleagues who make this possible as a big team that stands behind Marla and Emma and me in doing this. And they have been fantastic. And I hope that there'll be an opportunity for others to fill this seat. I know there will. And I hope that the colleagues of all of our listeners who are thinking about their own redefinition or as generous as mine have been.
- [44:29]
A
Simon, the privilege has been all mine. It's really been an honor to partner with you, and I'm so excited to see all the amazing things that you're going to do in your new venture. Although Simon is departing Redefiners, we will have an exciting announcement to share early in the new year, so make sure you tune in.
- [44:47]
B
And this is also a moment to thank our colleague and the mentor to all of us, Clark Murphy, for his personification of that spirit of curiosity and resilience that we admire so much in many of the people to whom we've spoken, and amongst other things, his co hosting of Redefiners for five seasons. And of course, to the amazing Emma Coombe for the wealth of insights that she's helped generate on the Leadership Lounge.
- [45:12]
A
Absolutely. And we wouldn't be here without our incredible production team and the crew here at Redefiners and Leadership Lounge. Thank each of you. A special thank you to each of our guests who made time to share your lessons, insights, knowledge, passion with us here at Redefiners. We're so grateful to have the opportunity and the privilege to talk with such amazing, thoughtful, authentic leaders and change makers. And finally, on behalf of all of us at Redefiners and Leadership Lounge, thanks to our amazing viewers and listeners for joining on this journey as we explore how global leaders are redefining what it means to lead in today's increasingly complex world. We have more remarkable guests, inspiration and leadership insights already in the works for 2026. I can't wait. Be sure to follow or subscribe so you don't miss a single episode.
- [46:05]
B
And however you celebrate it and with whom, we wish you a very, very happy, healthy and enjoyable holiday season.
- [46:13]
A
See you all.