Episode 389 - Babis Anagnostopoulos: High-Flying Homicide

Summary

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RedHanded Episode 389 – Babis Anagnostopoulos: High-Flying Homicide

Release Date: March 6, 2025
Hosts: Hannah & Georgia

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Episode Overview

In this gripping episode, RedHanded dives into the infamous murder of Caroline Crouch by her husband, the seemingly charming helicopter pilot Babis Anagnostopoulos, in an affluent suburb of Athens in 2021. The case—originally presented as a tragic home invasion—gripped Greece with its twists, media frenzy, and the shocking revelation that the "grieving" widower was the culprit. The story unpacks domestic violence, media complicity, and the dangers of appearance versus reality.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

The Crime Scene and Staging of a Burglary

• Initial 999 Call and Scene ([02:56]–[05:07])
  • Babis makes a desperate emergency call, claiming a home invasion; found tied up by police.
  • Caroline (19) is found dead, with her 11-month-old daughter Lydia beside her.
  • The couple's puppy is found hanged, heightening the horror.
  • The Greek public reacts with outrage and empathy for Babis, stoked by fears of foreign gangs.

“The widower… provoked an outpouring of sympathy for his bravery and very public grief.”
— Georgia ([05:09])

The Relationship: Grooming, Age Gap, and Troubled Undercurrents

• Their Background ([06:54]–[11:17])
  • Caroline moved from Liverpool to Greece as a child. She was outgoing and athletic.
  • Babis, 28, meets Caroline, 15, on her island and starts an illicit relationship.
  • Hosts call out the grooming and unease around the community's acceptance.
  • Secret elopement follows Caroline's 18th birthday, but family disappointment is overshadowed by apparent happiness.
  • Early trauma: a miscarriage soon after the wedding.

“She was 15 and still at high school, and he is 28 and a helicopter pilot. Disgusting.”
— Georgia ([08:24])

Media Sensation and Public Sympathy

• The Aftermath ([23:38]–[27:16])
  • Babis becomes a media darling, publicly grieving and extensively active on social media.
  • His calm demeanor and eagerness for press attention raise retrospectives suspicions.
  • He posts a highly-publicized tribute on Instagram, furthering his PR campaign.

“How are you ready to go on fucking Instagram ... Are you not still in the state of grief where you can't believe this is happening?”
— Georgia ([26:48])

The Cracks Appear: Police Investigation

• Problems With the Burglary Story ([29:47]–[33:10])

  • CCTV in the house stopped working well before the supposed burglary, with its SD card removed.
  • No physical evidence of outside perpetrators: fingerprints, DNA, or signs of forced entry.
  • Neighbors heard only the family’s puppy barking.

• Deeper Look Into the Marriage ([33:18]–[35:51])

  • Caroline’s coded diary entries mention abuse and fear.
  • Caroline planned to leave Babis, evidenced by texts and her browsing for accommodation the night she died.

On Caroline’s diary:
“With shorthand, Caroline had written things like beating and dangerous man.”
— Georgia ([33:50])

Breaking Down Babis' Lies: The Digital Trail

• Tech Foils the Perfect Crime ([38:48]–[41:17])
  • Police use data from Caroline’s smartwatch and Babis’ phone.
  • Smartwatch shows Caroline’s heart stops at 4:11am. Babis’ phone logs movement inconsistent with claiming he was tied up.
  • The story of dialing emergency services with his nose is tested and found barely plausible by the hosts.

“According to his story, he had been tied up ... But ... his phone showed him clearly moving around the house.”
— Georgia ([39:38])

The Truth Unravels and Confession

• Timeline of the Murder ([43:40]–[46:44])

  • Police reconstruct: After an argument, Babis suffocates Caroline with a pillow for six minutes.
  • He kills the family dog to better “sell” the story, then stages the burglary, ties himself up, and calls police.

• The Arrest ([46:53]–[48:09])

  • Arrested at Caroline’s memorial service: dramatic, live on national TV.
  • Babis at first denies, then confesses after eight hours: “I killed her. I will tell you everything in detail.”
  • His excuses: claimed it was a 'crime of passion' during a fight, driven by concern for their daughter—an explanation hosts and authorities immediately doubt.

Trial and Outcome

• Court Drama & Sentencing ([58:30]–[68:37])
  • Court unmoved by his attempts at theatrical self-defense and blameshifting.
  • Details show Babis was controlling and abusive: moved Caroline away from her family, denied access to money, tracked her by phone.
  • Found guilty of premeditated murder, animal cruelty, and perverting the course of justice.
  • Sentence: Life for murder (no parole for 20 years), 11.5 years for animal killing, €21,000 fine for false reporting.

“The court unanimously agreed on the maximum sentence possible under Greek law…”
— Georgia ([68:01])

Aftermath and Legacy

• Appeal Withdrawn, Custody, & Public Reckoning ([68:44]–[72:25])
  • Babis prepares an appeal but abruptly pulls it days before trial, citing “extremely serious reasons which cannot be announced.”
  • Custody of Lydia awarded to Caroline’s parents; Babis’s parental rights revoked.
  • The case becomes a national reckoning around domestic violence and femicide in Greece, pushing the term into public consciousness.

“There were definitely those who doubted his grieving father act right from the very start, but most of the country was firmly teambabis. And when this new story hit the media in the run up to the trial, the public backlash was instant and fierce.”
— Georgia ([55:00])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the age gap and grooming:
  “But while technically legal, I think we can all agree this has grooming stamped all over it.”
  — Georgia ([09:56])

• Tech as silent witness:
  “We live in an age where the first thing that happens when someone dies is you take their Apple watch, you take their aura ring, you take their Fitbit and you go through all of the data and then you decide what happened.”
  — Hannah ([40:38])

• On Babis’ narcissism:
  “He liked the attention.”
  — Hannah ([67:11])

• Public's reaction:
  “There's one thing the public hate more than losing the Euros. It is being deceived.”
  — Hannah ([55:43])

• Victim’s father's words:
  “Every time he appears in court, we're forced to relive the nightmares of the last two years and listen to his lies as he tries to justify his killing of my daughter.”
  — Quoting David Crouch ([70:10])

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Timestamps for Major Segments

| Segment | Description | Timestamp | | ------- | :---------- | :-------: | | Introduction to the Case | The 999 call, initial discovery | 02:56–06:14 | | Caroline’s Background & Relationship | Early years, meeting Babis, early marriage, community’s reaction | 06:54–16:56 | | Home Life & Lead-up to Murder | Baby, puppy, house plans, pre-murder circumstances | 16:56–19:27 | | The Crime & Investigation Begins | Details of staged burglary, initial investigation | 19:27–29:47 | | Doubts & Deeper Digs | Forensic analysis, marriage issues, diary | 29:47–35:51 | | Breaking Babas' Alibi | Smartwatch & phone analysis, testing nose-dial theory | 38:48–41:17 | | Motive, Crime Reconstruction | What really happened that night | 43:40–46:44 | | Arrest & Confession | Memorial service, dramatic arrest | 46:53–49:49 | | Trial Details & Verdict | Narcissism, self-defense attempts, final sentence | 58:30–68:37 | | Aftermath | Withdrawal of appeal, Lydia’s custody, societal impact | 68:44–72:25 |

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Conclusion

The case of Babis Anagnostopoulos stands as a chilling testament to how toxic control and narcissism can hide beneath a polished exterior. The hosts highlight the dangers of dismissing early warning signs of coercive or abusive relationships, the failures of societal scrutiny, and the powerful role modern tech can play in exposing the truth. Caroline’s story catalyzed a cultural conversation in Greece about femicide and domestic violence, even as the hosts remind listeners of the intimate, devastating human cost.

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Closing reminder:
“Charge your Apple watch.” — Hannah ([73:00])

Transcript

[Georgia]

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[Hannah]

I'm Hannah. I'm Surruti and welcome in Greek to Red Hand.

[Georgia]

I have not a clue. We were sat just before we came into the studio and Hannah just started laughing. Well, I had to go on pronouncednames.com.

[Hannah]

A website we frequent quite often.

[Georgia]

Uh huh. Just might as well have it bookmarked. Really?

[Hannah]

Not that anyone can ever tell.

[Georgia]

Nope, we're trying. How dare any. Before we even start this episode, I'm just gonna say there's a lot of very, very difficult Greek names In this. And we tried. We have tried very hard. Maybe we could have tried harder, but we tried as hard as is possible. So be patient.

[Hannah]

On 11 May 2021, an emergency call was made from a house in the well to do suburb of Glycinera in Athens. Calls like this had become sadly, all too common. Greek banks were not exactly paragons of trust and many Athenians had taken to storing cash around their homes, which predictably led to a spate of home invasion burglaries. But this time it soon became clear this was no ordinary burglary. The call had come in at around 6am from an audibly desperate man over the phone. His voice was muffled and weak and dispatchers could make out little more than the address and the words help and ambulance. When police arrived at the house, they found the man who made the call, Babis Ionistopoulos, tied up blindfolded, gaffer tape hanging loose from his mouth. He explained that he'd had to dial the emergency number with his nose. The house had been turned upside down, with rooms ransacked, drawers emptied and belongings strewn everywhere. The broken man told authorities that he believed his wife and baby were upstairs and begged them to check. And when they did, the investigation quickly turned from a standard burglary into a murder investigation that would become a national obsession in Greece.

[Georgia]

The body of Babis 19 year old wife Caroline was lying lifeless on the floor. Their 11 month old baby Lydia was next to her, crying for her mother and pulling at Caroline's clothes, trying to make her wake up. And as if this Dexter plotline isn't horrifying enough, out in the corridor, police made another harrowing discovery. The body of the couple's nine month old puppy Roxy was hanging from the banister.

[Hannah]

Dexter never would have done that.

[Georgia]

No. The case riveted the Greek public and press like no other story in recent memory. The widower, a handsome helicopter pilot, provoked an outpouring of sympathy for his bravery and very public grief. And the simmering fears of foreign criminal gangs invading Greek homes bubbled over into a national outrage. But then, after 37 days of intense media and investigative scrutiny, as Caroline's family and friends gathered on a clifftop for a memorial service, two police officers took Babas aside. They told him they had found the culprit. By analyzing various devices in the house, including Caroline's smartwatch, they had cleared up a lot of the mist surrounding this case. At last, the grieving widower was taken to Athens. And in an interrogation room they revealed what they knew. That he, Babis Anianostopoulos was their new prime suspect.

[Hannah]

It's quite dramatic to arrest a man for his wife's murder at her memorial upon a cliff.

[Georgia]

Oh it's so much. We will come back to this scene at the end and yeah, dramatic Greek tragedy esque you could say, with a bit of Dexter thrown in. This story absolutely took the nation by storm and it is all fundamentally based around just one fascinating month and how it unravelled in Athens in 2021 was the perfect end to a very imperfect crime from a man who thought that he'd fooled the world.

[Hannah]

Caroline Crouch was actually born in Liverpool in 2001 to an English father and a Filipina mother. And if 2001 feels like too recent a birth date for a married mother, then congratulations, you're a millennial. Caroline's father David had been an oil and gas executive, which meant he travelled a lot. But when Caroline was eight, he moved the family to Greece for good. They lived on Olonisos, a beautiful Aegean island home to just a few thousand people. And honestly this close knit community on a picturesque Aegean island does sound about as idyllic as a childhood can get. As a kid Caroline was outgoing and adventurous, the kind of girl that knew everyone and always had a smile on her face. She tried basically everything, scuba diving, swimming, kickboxing. And it was the kickboxing that stuck. She kept up that passion throughout her short life and in spring 2017 she was at a candlelight parade for Good Friday when she met 28 year old commercial helicopter pilot, Babis Ananostopoulos. Now usually we do run with the convention of using people's surnames but sorry, it's too hard. And also fuck him. So Aiyana stopped saying his name and we're just gonna go with Babis from now on.

[Georgia]

And Babis certainly made an impression on the young Caroline. How young? Well, I'm glad you asked. She was 15 and still at high school and he is 28 and a helicopter pilot. Disgusting. Yeah. But to Caroline, this charming well off pilot was a dream come true.

[Hannah]

I think for any 15 year old. Hi, I'm a helicopter pilot.

[Georgia]

He was her handsome prince who had literally fallen from the heavens. Babis had also come to Alonisos for a holiday but he spent a lot of his life hopping around the Aegean, taking commercial clients from island to island in his helicopter. And 28 year old Babas and 15 year old Caroline hit it off fast and they even had a connection. Babas mother had been a teacher at Caroline's school. Yep, yeah, it's bad as bad stuff. So after his holiday ended, the pair kept in touch and started dating, seeing each other more and more regularly. And let's keep in mind that the age of consent in Greece is 15 and Caroline was 15. But while technically legal, I think we can all agree this has grooming stamped all over it. Babas even started flying over Caroline's school in his helicopter to impress her and her friends.

[Hannah]

Jail, that would work on me.

[Georgia]

Yes, that would work on me now and I'm 30, 400%. But jail, he is nearly twice her age.

[Hannah]

And after this, Showboating continued for 17 months. Babis proposed. And despite the 13 year age gap and Caroline being a literal child, Caroline's family and the wider community didn't bat an eyelid. And they weren't just accepting, they weren't even begrudging, they were absolutely ecstatic for Caroline. Babbis seemed like the perfect match. A literally high flying professional who could provide for their daughter. And they did seem happy together. Both of their Instagram grids were absolutely full of smiling close up selfies and precious sunset moments. I remember when I was at school there were these couples in sixth form, so when you're like 16, 17, right? There was one couple who, the guy was very, very wealthy and they went on this holiday to Dubai or something equivalent, and they had this sunset meal in the middle of the desert, just the two of them with a photographer.

[Georgia]

And I was like, you're 17, what.

[Hannah]

Do you even talk about? I remember it so clearly.

[Georgia]

Unacceptable. I wasn't even gonna go that fancy. I was literally just gonna say, have you ever just been around in London and you're like, at a bar or a restaurant and you see two children having a date and the girl is always typically very, very dressed up and he's like, bought her roses or something and you're just like, why are you doing this? Why aren't you just like getting fingered.

[Hannah]

Behind bike sheds like the rest of us?

[Georgia]

Exactly. Like fucking upped your eyeballs in Bacardi Breezer. Like, what is happening? Who's getting wined and dined as a fucking teenager?

[Hannah]

Well, maybe they should be. And then maybe my standards would be higher.

[Georgia]

Maybe, maybe this is, this is what's happened, this is who we are now. But fuck me, it's so fucked up, I hate it.

[Hannah]

Anyway, three days after Caroline's 18th birthday, they got married in a surprise ceremony whilst they were on holiday in the Algarve. Surprise to who?

[Georgia]

That's the big question. Like they don't tell her family.

[Hannah]

Oh, so she knows.

[Georgia]

So I think it's like they basically elope, right? They're engaged.

[Hannah]

That's a nice way of saying elope.

[Georgia]

Yeah. Surprise wedding. Yeah, they basically elope.

[Hannah]

Okay. Greek weddings as Hollywood diverted our attention to decades ago.

[Georgia]

I fucking love that film. My big fan Greek Wedding is honestly, I haven't seen a lot of films, as Hannah discovered the other day on under the Duvet. I haven't watched the Pianist, but I have watched My Big Fat Greek Wedding several times.

[Hannah]

Thank God. Out of interest, Windex? Out of interest. What do you think the Pianist is about?

[Georgia]

The Nazis and Adrien Bode playing the piano. Am I close?

[Hannah]

Kind of. But no, not close enough to deserve that reaction at all.

[Georgia]

Yes. I won't even ask what it's about. Is it about why World War I started?

[Hannah]

I wish it were, because then you.

[Georgia]

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[Hannah]

Greek weddings. Not small, not tiny, not secret. And certainly not reserved affairs. So when Caroline's family expats they may have been, when they learned that they had missed out on their opportunity to have their only daughter's big fat Greek wedding, they were very disappointed.

[Georgia]

Maybe it's because neither of them are Greek. Like, I mean, they are, they live on this Greek island, but Mum's Filipino, Dad's English, Babis and Janostopoulos is very Greek, and they're just like, yes, our daughter's gonna marry a Greek man and we get to have a big fat Greek wedding.

[Hannah]

Finally get to eat a lamb eye.

[Georgia]

Nope, they're fucking getting married in the Algarve.

[Hannah]

But the couple seemed so happy that Caroline's family decided to drop it. Heartache, however, was just around the corner. Shortly after the wedding, Caroline miscarried after 12 weeks of pregnancy. And it hit the couple really hard. And their family decided that the best thing was to just give them some privacy.

[Georgia]

And soon the couple were back on their feet. Babis and Caroline moved into a very chic three story maisonette that they rented in the wealthy suburb of Glycinera. They made close friends with their neighbors and Caroline started studying for a degree in statistics at the University of Piraeus. And soon Caroline was pregnant again and they had a baby girl, Lydia. Soon after, Caroline adopted a rescue puppy, Roxy, a brown husky. Their family was finally coming together and the pair even had plans to build a forever home to grow into. Caroline's mother, Susan had given them €50,000 and Babis had found the perfect location.

[Hannah]

I'm sorry, brand new baby and rescue puppy. Yeah, that sounds fucking awful.

[Georgia]

It's because we're in our mid-30s, she's 19, she's got loads of fucking energy.

[Hannah]

I don't know, man. My friend recently, well, not recently, a year ago, surprise pregnancy and she's now had this baby. But previous to surprise pregnancy, her and her partner got a puppy, sent it off to his parents. After six months they were like, can't handle it, can't do it.

[Georgia]

Oh yeah.

[Hannah]

And they've moved house now out into the suburbs and her husband's like, we can maybe have another baby. We are not getting another dog.

[Georgia]

I don't blame them. I do not blame them. And my friends who, you know, acquired accidentally a dog for several months. Dog came back from a very unpredictable owner. They'd basically agreed to like dog sit this dog while this woman went on holiday. And then I went over to their house again, like months later and the dog was still there. And they were like, oh yeah, she Just like never came and got the dog. Dog is now back because the woman is about to imminently have a baby. And they were like, oh yeah. She was like, after I have the baby, I have the dog back. I was like, she never had the dog. Batman, this is now your dog, he lives here.

[Hannah]

That's what they want though.

[Georgia]

They've kind of changed their mind. They love the dog, but dog is entering its winter years, most expensive years.

[Hannah]

Most peeing on the carpet years.

[Georgia]

Yeah. And they're like, we loved this, we loved this. And we're like, we want to get a dog now. But they're like, if they also agree to keep this dog, that's not going to happen for a long time. And he isn't the easiest dog because she's obviously not been like the strictest, the most on top of it owner, shall we say. But anyway, yeah, babies and dogs don't do it. Anyway, sticking with this, they're thinking about this house. They've got the location, they've got the money, they're ready to go. And on 6 May 2021, Babis bought a plot of land in Pikemi, east of Athens. But five days later, just two months before her 20th birthday, Caroline would be smothered by a pillow and take her last breath. Because it was then, on 11th May 2021, the police discovered her lifeless body and her 11 month old screaming baby beside her, as well as the nine month old husky puppy hanging dead from the banister.

[Hannah]

As we said, the call came into emergency services at about 6 o' clock in the morning, 12 minutes past 6 to be precise, and detectives arrived in minutes. Babbis, the only witness, told them this story. Three men had broken in through a cellar window at about 4am Some of them were armed with handguns. Caroline was sleeping in the attic, but Babbis was asleep downstairs. So when they got to him, the intruders, they tied him to a chair blindfolded and gagged him. He said that he never saw the assailants, but he heard their accents as they shouted to each other. And they definitely weren't Greek. He guessed that they were either Georgian or Albanian. They kept asking him where the money and valuables were kept after they've gagged him. Well, yes, also very typical for a Greek person to blame it on an Albanian. But anyway, Vavis told them immediately where everything was, because his only priority was protecting his family.

[Georgia]

And the house showed clear signs of a break in. Drawers had been emptied, the place was a mess and everything of value had been taken because Babbis told the police that he'd told the men exactly where to find these things so that they would spare him his wife and his baby. €20,000 worth of jewellery was missing alongside €10,000 in cash, which had been hidden in a Monopoly box.

[Hannah]

Because no one's ever going in there.

[Georgia]

No, no, exactly. Upstairs, investigators presumed Caroline must have fought back. And, yeah, this seems strange, right, because Babis doesn't fight back. He's just like, yes, take all the money, take all the valuables, I don't care. I just want to protect my family. But the police believe the idea that Caroline fought back despite the burglars already having secured the money and the valuables, and despite the fact that she would have known that, you know, three men in her house violently looking for money would have been a clear threat to her and her baby. They figured that she had decided to take all of them on, and in the resulting tussle, they had suffocated her.

[Hannah]

The story was huge, not only in Greece, but also in the uk. So much so that I believe it featured in our now Resting In Peace show in the news.

[Georgia]

It did indeed, because, yeah, I just think this case, it was so, so, so enormous. Everyone was talking about it because, yeah, you only have to take a look at Babis and Caroline. They're the perfect sort of attractive young couple. There's a puppy, there's a baby. Somebody breaks into this. It's a really nice house in a really nice part of Greece. Kills her. Like it was everything everyone was talking about. And when I first heard about it, obviously, like everybody else, I just believed, oh, my God. This horrible burglary situation, horrible home invasion, murder. And then, literally within a month, the entire story changes. It's wild. And how they. How they get them. Oh, God. It's good, it's good. It's good work.

[Hannah]

Understandably, it was quite big here because Caroline still has family. She was born here. And the story of a poor young girl who had it all, whose baby had been left by her dead body and with a puppy hanging close by, it's inconceivable. And also it started a conversation about rising crime in Athens. People talk about Athens and crime rates all the time, so it's just another log to the fire, isn't it? So much so that Athens civil protection minister offered €300,000 in reward money for any information about finding the killers. And existing beliefs about dangerous Georgian and Albanian criminals were now right at the front and centre of people's minds. So the police focused all their efforts on infiltrating and investigating these foreign gangs, working around the clock under pressure to find these three mystery assailants and bring them to justice.

[Georgia]

Three days after her death, Caroline's body was transferred to Alonisis and she was buried in a cemetery just round the corner from her childhood home. Almost the whole island attended the funeral. The national media was splashed with photos and stories of the heartbroken Babis, who cradled his infant daughter for the entire four hour ceremony, carrying her over to her mother's grave and placing down a single white flower. Then the day after the funeral, so just four days after his wife had been killed, Babis appeared on the news himself. He gives this like very strange press conference and yeah, in it you can see that he looks dishevelled and definitely rattled, but the way he speaks, he's definitely clear and very calm. Bear in mind, it's four days after his 19 year old wife has been murdered and he gave statements outside of his home during this televised account. And when asked about his mental state, he said, it's indescribable. And when asked what he wanted, he said only that no family will ever have to go through this again. And when the press asked when he realised his wife was dead, he simply said, when they untied me.

[Hannah]

Now, obviously we are looking back at this with the benefit of hindsight and with the full knowledge of what actually happened. But that's very rare for us. For a man whose wife had just been killed days before while he was in the house, to then talk to the press, answering every one of their questions, no matter how direct.

[Georgia]

Quite odd also, because I think the thing that stands out to me the most about the press conference, right, is when he's asked what he wants, he says only that no family will ever go through this again. Four days after my wife has been murdered and my baby daughter has been left without a mother, and when they have yet to apprehend who did this, that wouldn't be the thing that I said I want. I would be saying to catch the people who did this or to bring her back. Yes. But rather he's like, only that no other family go through this. That is a weird thing to say. That's something you could say. 10 year anniversary.

[Hannah]

Yeah, that's like a McCann 10 year down the line phrase when you've started.

[Georgia]

All the foundations to not let this happen again. Yeah.

[Hannah]

It's tempting to compare him to someone like Chris Watts and the initial interviews he gives to the press, but the difference is Shanann was Missing when he gave those conferences. Caroline's dead. It's totally different.

[Georgia]

Absolutely. And again, totally get. We're looking at this with like hindsight, the fact that people didn't pick up on this at the time. This isn't the bit that I would be like, why didn't you pick up on this at the time? There's other bits which we'll come to.

[Hannah]

Anyway, a few days later, Babis posted a picture of their wedding day to his Instagram account, which has the handle Flying Babis. The caption read, always together, farewell, my love.

[Georgia]

Again, this is a few days, this is like a week after his wife has been murdered. How are you ready to go on fucking Instagram and just post always together, farewell, my love? Are you not still in the state of grief where you can't believe this is happening? How are you already at the stage where you're like, farewell, my love? Do you know what I mean? I get it, I get it. We're looking at this with hindsight, but it is just really alarming. He just can't stop.

[Hannah]

And the post got thousands of comments, a huge number of which Babis responded to personally, thanking them for their interest in saying how deeply touched he was.

[Georgia]

You know, not like a man who's got his hands full with looking after an 11 month old baby on his own now, and also, you know, dealing with the police and a massive investigation into who killed his wife. But he's got time to personally reply to and Instagram messages. Okay.

[Hannah]

And journalists even said at the time that if they wanted information about the story, they all knew that they could just DM Babis directly. He was always online and very happy to reply. It's like he's doing pr, but he's doing it. I mean, I suppose that's exactly what he's doing, but like, it's so like clinical.

[Georgia]

Oh, yes. Now, in the meantime, while Babas is soaking up his 15 minutes of fame, the police had been focusing on what they had a description of three foreign burglars, probably from the Caucus region. The media also joined in publishing stories tying the case to other crimes in the area by Albanian or Georgian perpetrators. Less than a week after Caroline's death, news broke that the police had made an arrest. A 43 year old Georgian citizen had been arrested at the northern border as he attempted to cross into Bulgaria on a false passport. He was brought into Athens for questioning. The man had been wanted for a string of other burglaries in the area. And just a few weeks before, he and a gang of accomplices had broken into an elderly couple's flat, tied them up and robbed them. And this flat had been just 20 minutes away from Caroline and Babis home. The man was questioned for days and his DNA was sent off for analysis. And while it initially looked like a slam dunk, eventually it went nowhere. There was no physical evidence placing this man in Caroline and Babbis home. And yes, he was a criminal, but burglary, even tying people up and committing burglary is a different thing to murder. It would have been a very big step up. And so with absolutely nothing tying this man to the murder of Caroline Crouch, the police were forced to let him go and return to square one.

[Hannah]

But they weren't high and dry. There was lots of physical evidence to uncover and analyse. For one, the family home had been kitted out with internal CCTV cameras. Useful, but actually not. Because at 12:35am, hours before the crime, the camera in the living room abruptly stopped recording because the SD card had been removed and the camera itself had been left on the living room floor. And the last thing the footage shows before it stops is Babis sitting on the sofa, cradling his daughter and looking at his phone. Then he gets up and then nothing. The screen goes blank. That's quite impressive forward planning for mystery assailants that don't show up for another few hours. And even if they had thought of that, why would they not just take the camera?

[Georgia]

So, yeah, weird camera business. Then they had the forensic results and the police had hoped that this might shed some much needed light on this case. Because can you imagine the amount of pressure the police are under? It's like a wealthy suburb, a young couple murdered in the home. Everyone is freaking out. But sadly, much of the forensics results were inconclusive. Both the samples from Caroline's fingernails and those from the rest of the house turned up nothing. No fingerprints, no DNA, no sweat or traces of biological matter were found anywhere. These foreign burglars, despite absolutely trashing the house, must have been incredibly meticulous. Maybe one of them's the cleanup man. One of them's like two of them are just like, destroying everything, killing puppies, killing women, and the other one's just, like running around cleaning everything up with a fucking toothbrush and a fine tooth comb, by the sounds of things.

[Hannah]

Then the police went back over Babas version of events and started to ask themselves some questions. And again, we are very aware. It is very easy for us to say this snarkily now, but it does seem like these Questions should have been asked right from the start, and here they are. First of all, how could three burglars break into the house through a tiny window with absolutely no signs of forced entry? How could they possibly trash the entire house and raid it, tie someone up, kill someone else and a dog without leaving a single shred of DNA evidence? Thirdly, why did the neighbours never hear the baby crying? Or, for that matter, any sounds at all of the three men who were apparently chatting loud enough for Babbis to hear their accents? Or, for that matter, any sound from Caroline while she and her baby were being attacked? Especially when their neighbour said that he heard a lot of uncharacteristic barking from the puppy at 4:20am?

[Georgia]

Yeah, so it's not like he doesn't hear anything. Yeah, he hears the dog barking, but nothing else.

[Hannah]

He also reported that after a little while, the barking very abruptly stopped.

[Georgia]

Weeks after Caroline's death, police started digging deeper into the couple's home life. And it wasn't quite the rosy, smiling sun, sea and sand domestic bliss that the Instagram accounts had presented. Because it never fucking is.

[Hannah]

I'm convinced the more someone posts about how wonderful it is, the more dead inside they are.

[Georgia]

Especially when they say, with this one.

[Hannah]

Don'T get me started on this one, he's your boyfriend. You know his fucking name. You're just rubbing it in, Diane.

[Georgia]

So, yeah. The police discovered that the couple had been going to therapy after the loss of their first child and, according to Caroline's family, hadn't been successful. So then the police turned to Caroline's diary and it revealed the true extent of the couple's marital difficulties. Some parts of Caroline's diary even seemed to be written in code. Presumably, it seems to make sure that Babis could never read them, because with shorthand, Caroline had written things like beating and dangerous man. And the diary described long running fights and the sense that Caroline was increasingly afraid to tell her husband her real feelings in case they set him off.

[Hannah]

On New Year's Eve 2019, Caroline wrote, I argued with Babis again. This time a lot. I hit him, I cursed him and he broke the door. I woke up feeling so weak and tired and thinking about leaving, going to my sister. I don't know if I can continue with Babis, but I love him so much that I can't leave him, even if this relationship is harming me. Then, on the 3rd of July, 2020, she described another explosive argument. In this one, she revealed to Babis that she'd wanted to leave him before she got pregnant and that she only stayed with him so that her daughter could grow up with both parents. Then, on 11 May 2021, Caroline texted a friend saying that she was planning to leave Babis for good. Caroline's phone also revealed that she'd been browsing Airbnbs and hotels that very night. So clearly this hadn't been an idle threat. And if that date is ringing any bells, it's because you're a very good Listener. Well done. 11 May 2021 is the day that Caroline died.

[Georgia]

Alright, should we talk about the Signal Awards?

[Hannah]

Sure, sure.

[Georgia]

That is the level of enthusiasm we would love you guys to have for us too, because if you remember, we made the podcast series Flesh and Code with Wondery. We were super excited, like the minute they brought that story to us. Because if you haven't listened to Flesh and Code, it's essentially about following people who essentially fall in love with their, like, AI companions. It's about Russian interference and all sorts of crazy things and about how these AI companions are to be trusted, whether this is a good thing, how it was impacting on a larger scale, and the ramifications when Replika, that was the company at the heart of it, took away the erotic roleplay function and didn't go well. Spoilers. So we loved making it. We spent, what, 18 months making that show and we work so, so hard on it. And so we are going to ask a very small favor of you guys. Shockingly to us, Flesh and Code has been put up for the Listeners Choice category of the Signal Awards 2025. So we would love you guys to please help us out and basically try get some more eyes and ears on Flesh and Code because it was a real labor of love for us. What you guys need to do is go to the Signal Awards website and vote for Flesh and Code. Again, it's in the Listener's Choice category and you can find us under Documentaries. That's the category you're looking for. And then under Limited Series and Specials, voting is open until the 9th of October, so you really don't have much time. Like literally go do this now. And we would just be so incredibly grateful because if we did win the Listener's Choice for Flesh and Code at the Signals Award, then it would just mean the world to us. Thank you.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

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[Hannah]

The police were now thoroughly convinced that there had been no burglary at all. After weeks of national fury and the outpouring of support and sympathy. It had been Babis all along, but.

[Georgia]

They'D have to prove it. And for that, they turned to the tech. The more the police looked into the couple's devices, the more obvious it all became. And this is something we've not really touched upon hugely before. There was a bit of this in the Karen Reid episode, but it kind of doesn't really lead anywhere here. It is super effective because information and metadata from personal devices actually are used in this case to great effect. It's an approach that definitely could get pretty concerning and can be pretty like gray if used irresponsibly. But here it gave a real insight into what actually happened inside that house that night. So first the police checked Babas phone. According to his story, he had been tied up from around 4am when the burglars entered the house. But unfortunately for him, his phone showed him clearly moving around the house from both his GPS location and active step count. And look, you've got to close those.

[Hannah]

Rings even if you're murdering your wife.

[Georgia]

Gotta do it. But like, okay, look, it doesn't necessarily show him doing it, it shows his phone moving around. So yes, like, we can, we can say that to be gentle. But then the police checked Caroline's smartwatch and bingo. It showed that she'd been asleep around six minutes before the murder began. Then at 4:05am There was a sudden sharp increase in her heart rate until 4:11am when her heart stopped beating altogether again. How are they learning all this just now?

[Hannah]

I feel like maybe we need to accept that we live in an age where the first thing that happens when someone dies is you take their Apple watch, you take their aura ring, you Take their Fitbit and you go through all of the data and then you decide what happened.

[Georgia]

I agree. Let's do that, please. So, yeah, basically what this is telling the police loud and clear is if this woman had been asleep until six minutes before she died. Suddenly, suddenly, there's a sharp increase. Up until that point, she's asleep, and then her heart stops beating. At what point exactly did she fight back against her assailants before being suffocated in an ensuing fight? It seems implausible at least.

[Hannah]

And we've got one last thing to revisit before we move on. In the story that Babis told, he was tied to a chair blindfolded, and he managed to not only get his phone, but also dial 1 00, which is the Greek emergency number, with his nose. So let's try this out. All right, so I'm gonna give myself a head start. Right. So I'm just gonna put it on the table. So I've already used my hands. I'm already out.

[Georgia]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. To be honest, yes. You've already unlocked the phone?

[Hannah]

No, I haven't unlocked it. I've just moved it into the direction. The area to which my nose can reach.

[Georgia]

Got it. Got it. Okay, That's a big step.

[Hannah]

And now I'm gonn.

[Georgia]

Let's do it. Let's do it. I'm watching. Wait, wait. Shall I film this?

[Hannah]

Yeah, probably. Okay. What if I can.

[Georgia]

You can do it, I believe. Oh, you got it. Okay. It's a good start.

[Hannah]

Oh, face id. Face id.

[Georgia]

You have more gaffer tape on your face, though.

[Hannah]

I can do emergency with my nerve.

[Georgia]

He says he does 100. He says he does 100.

[Hannah]

I don't want to actually call for these.

[Georgia]

It won't go to 100. It won't go anywhere if you dial 100 here. Well, maybe it will. Let's find out.

[Hannah]

One.

[Georgia]

Yeah. You can't use your arms either, for support.

[Hannah]

I don't use my arms.

[Georgia]

No, I meant, like, for balance, because I tried behind your arms.

[Hannah]

Okay, sorry.

[Georgia]

You also probably didn't have a tiny little armchair deck chair in front of you, but. Yeah.

[Hannah]

Should I try it again?

[Georgia]

Try it again? Yeah, I think the no arms is crucial.

[Hannah]

You can do it.

[Georgia]

You can do it.

[Hannah]

As long as you can reach your phone with your face immediately, it can be done.

[Georgia]

Well, you saw it here first.

[Hannah]

Getting it out of my pocket with my nose, though, probably a bit more difficult.

[Georgia]

Tricky business.

[Hannah]

Anyway, it's not easy. So I think we have illustrated that the whole thing had been intricately planned and carried out. Not just the act itself, but the story that Babbis told afterwards, relying on a combination of public fears and sympathy to get him off scot free. And he did fool most of the public and the press for weeks. But this house of cards was coming down fast.

[Georgia]

So it's time for a new theory. And this is what we got on that night. The couple fights for hours. And at some point, Caroline made it clear that she wanted to leave Babis. I suspect that Babis knew this was coming sooner or later. This isn't their first rodeo. No. In marital fight Olympics, which is a.

[Hannah]

TV show you would watch.

[Georgia]

It's a fucking fuck, yes. I'd watch the shit out of it. It's just so you.

[Hannah]

And just send them on Gladiators Contender.

[Georgia]

Only if Mel Schilling is overseeing it with a fucking, like, big cotton bud that she uses to knock the loser over. So, yeah, I think Babis knows that this point where Caroline is going to leave him has been a long time coming. And so I think when she finally tells him that night, I am leaving you, I think he pulls out a very meticulous and very much premeditated plan for murder and deflection.

[Hannah]

Do you think he practiced dialing 100 with his nose to check if he could do it?

[Georgia]

This is the other thing. Did they dust the phone for nose prints? Because otherwise I don't want to fucking hear it. I don't know. So, yeah, he's ready to go. He's got his plan. So I think what happens next? And this is what the police believe, he goes downstairs. Caroline stays in the attic room all the way in the top of the house, and they continue their fight over text. Which is just like the worst thing when you're still both in the same house, but you're like just texting each other how angry you are. It's, you know, Nilpoix at the fucking marital fight Olympics. But that's going on.

[Hannah]

Well, maybe you flip it on its head and it's the people who have the worst marriage that win. Yes.

[Georgia]

In which case all the points. And we know that this is what happened because there are texts on the phone. But also this is what's shown in the last frames of the CCTV that was inside the house. And the police figure that what happens next is that Babis decided that he wanted their daughter Lydia for himself. He wasn't going to let Caroline walk out and take her with her. So he gets up, removes the SD card from their CCTV cameras and heads Upstairs to where Caroline had finally gone to sleep. He then held a pillow over her face for a full six minutes until he was sure she was dead. Then he starts to stage the scene. He puts their baby daughter Lydia, next to the dead body of her mother. Then he picks up Roxy, the 11 month old Husky puppy, and drowns her in the bathtub, then strings her up to the banister. He then makes the fake call to the Athenian police gaffer, tapes his mouth, blindfolds himself and then ties himself to a chair. And then he prepares himself for the role of a lifetime. The handsome, grieving widower, the victim of nasty foreign criminals, the brave, bereaved father.

[Hannah]

Who can also fly a helicopter. Just in case you want that.

[Georgia]

Yeah, he's the full package, ladies.

[Hannah]

37 days after the attack, a memorial service was held for Caroline on her home island of Alonissis. Her family and friends gathered to remember her. And Babis, surrounded by Caroline's family, held baby Lydia in his arms for the duration of the ceremony. The emotional scenes were broadcast live across the country. But during the service, two police officers arrived by helicopter. Mwah.

[Georgia]

Yes, full circle.

[Hannah]

And they made a beeline for Babis and told him they had a suspect and they were almost certain that this person had killed Caroline. The officers told Babis that he needed to go with them immediately to Athens so he could help to identify this suspect. Babis went over to tell Caroline's family and he and Caroline's mum hugged for about five minutes.

[Georgia]

Five minutes. Have you ever hugged anyone in your life for five minutes? I don't think all the hugs I've ever given add up to five minutes. Five minutes. That's fucking mental.

[Hannah]

It's a long time. Footage of this long hug was instantly all over the news and the commentary read that the family were overjoyed with this new breakthrough and at the prospect that soon it would all be over.

[Georgia]

Babbis asked the police if he could use his phone, but they said no. They also told him that he wouldn't be able to stick around for the rest of the memorial service. It was probably best if he just went with them straight away and avoided making a scene in front of the TV cameras. And whether he knew it or not, Babas number was well and truly up.

[Hannah]

I don't think he had any idea. I think he was convinced that he'd got them all.

[Georgia]

Yeah, absolutely. Now, the trip to Athens from this small Aegean island is not quick, even by helicopter, so presumably Babas had quite a lot of time to mullet over. And when he finally got to an interrogation room in Athens and was told that the suspect was in fact him. He didn't go down without a fight. After eight hours of questioning and various half baked answers that he probably cooked up in the helicopter ride to try and answer all of the various inconsistencies that had come up during the course of the police investigation, Babis finally confessed. And he said simply, I killed her. I will tell you everything in detail. But as we will discover, the story he tells now also makes very little sense.

[Hannah]

He said that during their argument, Caroline told him to leave their bedroom. Then she took the baby and according to Babis, threw Lydia into a swing in a way that made Babis scared for the baby's safety. He said that Caroline also became physical, punching and kicking him and flying into one of her dangerous outbursts, as he called them. Caroline threatened to take Lydia away from him for good. And he was worried about Caroline's capacity to be a good mother. So, in the heat of the moment, in a bid to save his daughter, Babis said he lost his temper and smothered his wife with a pillow. Which obviously makes sense for very few reasons. But if you're arguing red mist blind rage pillow isn't what you're going for.

[Georgia]

No, no, especially because it took six minutes of holding her down.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Georgia]

So Babbis told the police that when he realised what he'd done, he'd considered hiding Caroline's body, but then decided instead on the fake robbery story. Why? Well, it's because he's just such a bloody good dad, he said. I thought of making one last attempt so that our daughter might at least grow up with her father. So he's like, that's why I didn't hand myself in, because it was just red mist. I promise you, it was just a crime of passion in the heat of the moment. Didn't mean to do it. I swear to God. The only reason I didn't hand myself in was for the sake of my daughter. So she might still have a dad. And yeah, presumably there's also some bullshit here. If he'd had more time to think about it, of being like, well, if I hide the body, then Lydia's gonna grow up thinking her mother abandoned her or spend her life wondering where her mother is. At least now she knows her mother is dead. But it wasn't me, it was this fake burglary. Don't worry, you still grew up with a great dad who loves you, who just happened to murder your mum.

[Hannah]

And I can fly a helicopter.

[Georgia]

This too. And Then the thing about the dog comes up, right? And when I say the thing about, I mean the fact that he.

[Hannah]

The killing of the dog.

[Georgia]

The killing of the dog. And for this inexplicably gruesome move, because, yes, he drowns the dog in the bathtub and then hangs it from a banister. When he's asked why on earth he did that, he says, I didn't know what to do. I thought that in order to look more plausible that rogue robbers had entered the house, I would have to hurt the dog. No one knew I would be capable of killing the dog. With a heavy heart, I hung the dog's leash on the railings of the stairs. So, basically, what he's saying here is, I think it's, like, misinterpreted of being. Like, no one knew what I was capable of. Like, he's this demonic creature and he's admitting to it. I don't think that's what he's saying. I think what he's saying is more along the realms of, like, nobody would be able to believe that I could have killed the dog. Saying, like, people could have believed or suspected that I had murdered my wife. But I had to take it that stage further so that it looked really, really much more likely that some third party had nothing to do with us, had committed this crime, because I. No one could imagine why I would kill the dog. So I had to do it because it was the most crazy thing that could happen. Like, that's what I think he's saying there. But basically, ultimately, the subtext of Babis entire story is that it was all Caroline's fault. He had had no choice. He had been forced to take his wife's life and her puppy's life, all for the sake of saving baby Lydia.

[Hannah]

And you might be thinking, what happened to the smartwatch? Why did you bring that up and then not bring it up again?

[Georgia]

We work for the Athens Police Department. No, they do actually do a very good job. They do wrap this case up in a month. Like, I'm just joking.

[Hannah]

We already know that Caroline was sleeping when she died, and that doesn't make sense. We also know that Babbis took the SD card out of the CCTV camera in the living room at 12:35am and he killed Caroline at 4am because that's what the watch says, which doesn't exactly scream. She came at me and I saw red and I didn't know what I was doing. It was a total accident, but I still managed to hold a pillow on her face.

[Georgia]

For six minutes and then murder our puppy.

[Hannah]

The hours spent devising and carrying out this plan absolutely speaks to someone in a calm and collected mental state. But as calculated and well thought out as his original alibi seemed to have been, with, you know, flashy details like Albanians and Georgians, this one isn't nearly as clean, actually. There were loads of gaping holes in this new heat of the moment story, and they were all about to come.

[Georgia]

Spilling out, because when the story broke, it broke. The media literally interrupted coverage of the 2020 Euros to show rolling news coverage of Babas arrest and interrogation. I don't know how far Greece got in the 2020 Euros, but that's quite surprising.

[Hannah]

I mean, I can't remember either, but football's a big deal in Greece.

[Georgia]

Yeah. So, yeah, it's wall to wall coverage. Apparently, traffic even ground to a halt outside Athens Cafe so that drivers could catch the latest developments while they were on the go. People couldn't believe it. And so it's often said about this case that Babis was the man who fooled a nation, but that's not entirely true. There were definitely those who doubted his grieving father act right from the very start, but most of the country was firmly teambabis. And when this new story hit the media in the run up to the trial, the public backlash was instant and fierce.

[Hannah]

There's one thing the public hate more than losing the Euros. It is being deceived.

[Georgia]

Absolutely.

[Hannah]

It was clear as day to anyone and everyone that Babis had concocted his story to save himself and his reputation. He'd played up to public fears and stereotypes and stereotypes the police had as well, because he thought he could outsmart an entire country. And now the Greek public knew that they had been played. Babbis had murdered his young wife. He'd actively supported the arrest of an innocent man, he'd used his own daughter as a prop, and he'd literally killed a puppy, all in the vain hope that it would make his alibi seem more plausible. It was self preservation at any cost. And I'd go further than that. I don't even think it's just self preservation. It's self aggrandizement.

[Georgia]

Absolutely. He didn't need to be doing everything he was doing in order to preserve himself. In fact, I think a lot of what he was doing didn't ultimately lead to his downfall because the evidence from the crime scene is what did that. But it certainly made a lot of people take notice of him when he could have so easily just stayed under the radar.

[Hannah]

And with it all out in the open, the anger around this case also started a public conversation about domestic violence. Caroline was the 17th woman in Greece to be killed by her partner in 2021. And those are just the ones we know about. Articles were written and widely shared, bringing the word femicide into the national Greek consciousness for the first time. The people were reckoning with the scale of a problem in a way they had never acknowledged before.

[Georgia]

So while this storm raged on outside, Babis and Janastopoulos sat in prison awaiting trial. And it would be almost a full year before that came. On 8th April 2022, he arrived at court in a bright white bulletproof vest as so him surrounded by a small army of armed guards. Campaigners had gathered outside and as he passed they screamed at him to rot in hell. He stood charged with premeditated murder, the unprovoked killing of an animal and perverting the course of justice by repeatedly lying to police. And that last one includes charges of false reporting and false testimony. Inside it was a mixed court of jurors plus a panel of three judges. And Babis Ananostopoulos was facing life.

[Hannah]

The main aim of Babas's defence strategy was to prove that the murder wasn't premeditated because that carries a lesser charge. And God love them, they had a job on their hands. Prosecutors told the court the following words from the coroner's report. Caroline's death had been agonising and prolonged. Psychologists testified that Babis character was narcissistic and controlling. And the court was told that during their marriage Babis had been increasingly manipulative and volatile. He had moved Caroline away from her family to the suburbs and had planned to buy a house even further away from her family and her friends. Caroline had no access to her own money and Babbis would track her constantly via her phone.

[Georgia]

Yeah, I think sometimes in cases like if you look at the Chris Watts situation or you look at Scott Peterson, there's like quite a clear motivation for why that murder happened. Right. Chris Watts is like, I want to be with this new woman. Got to get rid of you. Don't want this like you know, ex wife hanging around here. I really think given Babas personality, I think a lot of it is wrapped up in this kind of juvenile thing he has of being like this man who's got a 19 year old wife and like he can keep her satisfied and he can provide for her and all of this. And then when Caroline is like 19 and still able to be like, nah, you may be rich you may be handsome, you may be all these things, but I don't give a fuck. I'm leaving, I'm out of here, I'm looking at Airbnb's hotels, I'm gone. I think his ego could not handle the idea of A, Caroline leaving and B, people realising that his 19 year old child bride was leaving him. Like, because then you're gonna start asking questions of what's wrong with you.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Georgia]

So months before the trial, Babas previous defence lawyer had resigned from the case saying he couldn't have anything to do with it for personal reasons, probably because of the level of hatred this case stirred up in Greece. And look, I'm not saying that that's like a good thing that that happened. Like everybody deserves a defence, but I wouldn't be surprised if that was the reason that person stepped away.

[Hannah]

I mean, it'd be quite hard to look yourself in the eye, wouldn't it? Yeah, but that's also a price you pay when you decide to be a criminal defence lawyer.

[Georgia]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

Literally in the name.

[Georgia]

Yes.

[Hannah]

Defending criminals is your job or alleged criminals.

[Georgia]

Sometimes. Always alleged criminals.

[Hannah]

But you have to be prepar. Sometimes. They did do it.

[Georgia]

Yes. And he did do it. Babis did do it. By his own admission, he's saying he just didn't premeditate it. So Babbis new defense lawyer, a man whose name I'm going to try and say now, Andros Papae, straight up.

[Hannah]

Alexandros.

[Georgia]

Oh my God. I was so scared about his surname. I said his first name wrong. Alexandros Papai Oannidis. That's not bad. Alexandros Papai, whatever.

[Hannah]

Sounded Greek to me.

[Georgia]

Thank you. It's all Greek to me. Did his very best. And for the rest of this episode, I'm just going to call him the defence attorney. And he argued that Babis had been in a blurred state of mind. The defence also just denied a bunch of very clear facts. For example, they said Caroline was not asleep. What we are hearing we do not accept. Even though they had the smartwatch data to show that she was asleep, it wasn't looking good. But Babis was not going to go down without one last performance. He took the stand and spoke for almost 10 hours.

[Hannah]

I'm quite surprised that he didn't defend himself.

[Georgia]

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Hannah]

Even when the first one quit, I wouldn't have been surprised if he said, ah, well, I'll do it anyway. You would have fucked it up.

[Georgia]

Honestly, I don't. How was this allowed? How was he allowed to speak for 10 hours. It is mind boggling, but he does. And he started with the story of how he and Caroline had met, their unwavering love and their fairytale wedding. He said that back then, my absolute priority in everything was her happiness. She may have been young, but she was very mature and she was maturing fast. So gross. So gross. Babis also said that after Caroline had had her first miscarriage, her behaviour had started to change and she'd become aggressive. He said he'd suggested that they should get some therapy, and at first Caroline had gone along with it, but that soon she'd started making excuses and eventually stopped attending altogether.

[Hannah]

Babbis went back over the new version of the night in question. In intense detail. He said that Caroline had been violent. She'd used her kickboxing training against him and he'd lost control. He said that he got on top of Caroline to stop her from attacking him.

[Georgia]

Okay.

[Hannah]

And then, in a moment of madness, he grabbed a pillow and placed it, he says, over her head for six.

[Georgia]

Minutes with enough force that it killed her.

[Hannah]

And when the judge asked how he could go to such an extreme measure quite so quickly, Babis replied, I had no purpose. There was no logic in my blurred mind at that moment. And when I saw her in profile and understood she was dead, I lost it. I began to weep and pull my hair and go back and forth across the room. From the day I lost Caroline, I lost everything. I lost my life. Wah. And what about the dog? The little puppy, Roxy, the brown husky? Well, once again, he explained that that was all part of an effort to make the whole thing look more credible. He said he just couldn't bear to look at Roxy as she died. And finally, he concluded there is no excuse. What has been lost is irreplaceable. Neither Caroline nor our dog deserved it. What the fuck?

[Georgia]

Also, what has been lost? Like you misplaced your wife and your dog? You mean what I did? What I took from this earth? What I took from Caroline's family with.

[Hannah]

My bare fucking hands?

[Georgia]

Yeah. And yes, this 10 hour pity party was broken up by frequent interjections from the judges. Among many other things, they stopped Babis multiple times to contest his use of the present tense when speaking about Caroline. And they also asked him not to overanalyze, presumably just to try and encourage him to fucking get on with it. Cause he analyzes situations like he's suddenly like an expert witness or something, and not just, you know, trying to not go to prison for the rest of his life.

[Hannah]

It doesn't surprise Me at all that he's trying to. Well, actually, his own defense.

[Georgia]

Yep, yep, yep, yep. And it didn't end. His little act, didn't end with just his time in the stand. Because later during trial, when excerpts from Caroline's diary were read out, Babas would sit there and cry. Obviously, his theatrics did not work on the court, but maybe that wasn't the point, because journalists at the time reported something else. They said it kind of just seemed like he was enjoying the drama of.

[Hannah]

It all, which does happen more than people may think.

[Georgia]

Yeah, I think he knows he's fucked. He knows he's a different. I think he's just enjoying it.

[Hannah]

This is his moment in the sun.

[Georgia]

Or he is narcissistic enough to think that he can fool everybody one more time.

[Hannah]

Maria Gavinelli, the president of the Greek National Commission for Human Rights, said at the time, all my instincts tell me that this was testimony that was rehearsed by a showman who was milking it for all it takes and enjoying it. Court reporter Giotto Tessi added, it was well prepared. And yes, he is clever. But beyond that, there was something else. His grasp of legal terminology was exceptional. If you had not seen him uttering the words, you'd have thought it was a lawyer speaking.

[Georgia]

So there you go. He kind of did try to defend himself.

[Hannah]

Well, yes, and this extended even after the proceedings were concluded. As Tessie said, he seems always to be looking out for the cameras, and when he finds them, straight into them. He's a narcissist. He likes the attention.

[Georgia]

In his closing statement, Babis gave it one last shake at trial, saying, I hope all those who have been hurt, all those who have lost, will someday forgive me. I hope that God will forgive me. I will never forgive myself. How narcissistic to even ask for forgiveness. Mm. But whatever.

[Hannah]

Well, he's just trying to show remorse, isn't he? So they'll let him off a bit lighter.

[Georgia]

Yeah. On the 16th of May, 2022, a year almost to the day since Caroline was killed, Babisanianostopoulos was found guilty. The court unanimously agreed on the maximum sentence possible under Greek law, a life sentence for the premeditated murder of his wife. With no chance of parole for 20 years, a jail term of 11 years and six months for the senseless killing of the family's pet dog, and a fine of €21,000 for intentionally misleading the police and the public. I can't believe we got 11 years and six months for killing a dog.

[Hannah]

Too fucking right.

[Georgia]

Wow.

[Hannah]

In Cuba, you get more for killing a cow than a human.

[Georgia]

There you go.

[Hannah]

Predictably, Babis immediately got to work on his appeal. He argued for months that his sentence should be reduced, citing mitigating circumstances. He lined up six defence witnesses, including his parents. I'm amazed he found six. But then, in June 2023, one week before his appeal trial was set to begin. Suddenly, quite unexpectedly, Babis decided to put a sudden stop to proceedings and he and his team and his parents dropped the appeal completely. That's quite a big U turn for a narcissist especially. So one would hope that there were some pretty hefty reasons behind the change of heart. And don't worry, he put out a statement of explanation. He said that he'd pulled the plug due to extremely serious reasons which cannot be announced. Fuck off. So that clears that right up.

[Georgia]

Oh, my God, I'd be fucked off.

[Hannah]

If I was a lawyer and I'd been putting together an appeal for years. And then he's actually changed my mind a week before be like, fuck sake. I was ready to go.

[Georgia]

I am really surprised that he does that, though, because I think it is very clear from everything we've said throughout this episode is that he is a man who loves attention and he would have had another go at the limelight, maybe, you know, as many people wouldn't have been as interested in an appeal for sure. But I am surprised he drops it.

[Hannah]

Yeah, same.

[Georgia]

And we're not the only ones who are surprised, because Caroline's father, David, is not convinced that this is the last we'll hear from Babis, calling him a duplicitous bastard, not very smart, but a born actor. But for now, the family is immensely relieved that the case has been put to bed. David said every time he appears in court, we're forced to relive the nightmares of the last two years and listen to his lies as he tries to justify his killing of my daughter.

[Hannah]

Thankfully, before the trial even began, an Athens court awarded custody of baby Lydia to Caroline's parents. All of Babas parental rights were revoked and even the visitation rights of Babas's parents to baby Lydia were severely limited. Lydia's almost five now, and last anyone heard, she's living in the Philippines with Caroline's sister, David Crouch, Caroline's father, said this. My only duty now is to look after Lydia, who is now without both a mother and a father, and ensure that she is brought up as her mother would have brought her up. I can only do this in the Philippines, far away from the Malignant presence of her father.

[Georgia]

And Lydia is so fucking cute.

[Hannah]

She is so fucking cute, man.

[Georgia]

Oh, it's just so, so despicable, this whole story. And look, I know we say kind of from the start, like, oh my God, he's nearly twice her age. Like, why is nobody saying anything? Like, there weren't clear indications that there was a problem. There wasn't like, other than the fact that there's like a bit of a disturbing age gap. But like, everyone's just so happy for Caroline and she's so happy and then it's just like how quickly that situation deteriorates and how nobody knew. Nobody knew what a narcissist he was and how dangerous he was. And Caroline did everything right. She was trying to leave, she was trying to get out of that situation. And as we've seen time and time again, it's when women try to leave situations like this that they are most at risk. It's literally the night she tells him.

[Hannah]

And she's 19, she's a kid herself. Like, she wouldn't have seen it coming. She wouldn't have recognized the signs.

[Georgia]

No. So, yeah, just a really, really tragic story. But at least Lydia is absolutely nowhere near Babas or anyone to do with him. And I don't know, people might feel like, oh, why take her away from his parents? Another set of grandparents, always a good thing.

[Hannah]

But they stand by him and they raised him.

[Georgia]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

So I feel fine about that.

[Georgia]

Me too. So that's it, guys. That is the story of Babis. The last time I'm gonna say his surname. Anianostopoulos. The man who thought he had fooled a nation.

[Hannah]

Charge your Apple watch.

[Georgia]

Always get one. I don't have one.

[Hannah]

I'm getting an Oura ring tomorrow.

[Georgia]

Oh, there you go. Keep it on and keep us on. We'll be back next week or something else.

[Hannah]

Goodbye.

[Georgia]

Goodbye.

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[Hannah]

Are we really safe? Is our water safe? You destroyed our tap.

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And crimes like that, they don't just happen.

[Georgia]

We call things accidents. There is no accident.

[Hannah]

This was 100% preventable.

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They're the result of choices by people. Ruthless oil tycoons, corrupt politicians, even organized crime. These are the stories we need to be telling about our changes planet. Stories of scams, murders and cover ups that are about us and the things we're doing to either protect the earth or destroy it. Follow Lawless Planet on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes of Lawless Planet early and ad free right now by joining Wondry plus in the Wondry App, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.