B (2:54)

Listen, I'm all for fun and games, but we're here to work.

C (3:01)

As we said last Week. All of the followers, businesses, every penny of their savings, absolutely everything they had was handed over to the church. The colour red was banned because apparently Jesus would be wearing red upon his return. I don't think it says that anywhere.

B (3:18)

Doesn't need to say anything anywhere. It's just what I, Warren Jeffs, say and what I decide today. He's just on one. This is just like petty, inconsequential things, but it's just to see what he can get away with and it's just for his own sheer enjoyment.

C (3:35)

Absolutely. Previously, women in the church could wear any colour that they wanted, just as long as they were covered for from head to toe, hands and head only is what you're allowed to see. But under Warren Jeffs regime, red was banned, denim was banned, patterns were banned. We need to talk about the hair as well. Women and girls would spend literally hours plaiting each other's hair just to be able to leave the house. Warren Jeffs put all of the women in the community on Prozac to make them more docile and obedient. Times were hard in Colorado City, which is, by the way, what they renamed Short Creek to distance it from the infamous 1953 raids we discussed last week. Warren Jeff's iron grip on its people seemed only to be getting tighter. But he hadn't counted on coming up against someone called Sam Brower.

B (4:32)

Sam Brower was, and still is a bounty hunter, or a private investigator, depending on who you ask. Sam spent seven years dedicatedly investigating this particular case, racking up hundreds of miles, driving around, literally chasing leads. Sam wrote a book charting the full story of Warren Jeffs, called Prophets Prey, spelt like Predator Prey. That's such a good title.

C (5:01)

It is good, isn't it?

B (5:02)

I love it. Well done, Sam. I really, really, really appreciate that. Brilliant. Prophets Pray. Go buy it. Go read it. And this book was also made into a bleak but fascinating documentary. And during his time investigating the church, Sam advocated for a number of people who had been affected by Warren Jeffs. And for one family trying to extricate themselves who couldn't afford representation. Sam charged them just $1 for his services and he lent them that dollar. The first Sam had ever heard about the FLDS was from a story in the newspaper. He read that hundreds of young boys were being unceremoniously kicked out of the church, which makes a lot of sense because the bigger me sums just don't really add up. Think about it. Young girls are routinely being married off to older men, each of whom has anything from three to dozens of wives. That equation doesn't leave much room for the young men. Many of them were therefore being sent off to do manual labour for one of the church's many construction companies. Since their pay went directly to the church, this was cut and dry slave labour. But many of the rest of the boys were just being excommunicated. Some were caught smoking or drinking up at a spot out of town that they called the Edge of the World. Some were found kissing girls or watching movies. But for many others, Geoff would just drum up some excuse or other sinful thoughts or anything, some sort of imagined wicked action just to boot them out. Boys as young as 13 were sent out alone to live on the streets of Las Vegas, St. George or Salt Lake City. And these boys became known as the Lost Boys. Forced to fend for themselves. And with years of pent up adolescent rebellion with Ready to Fly, many turn to drugs, violence and sex work. And it's also not just that they're incredibly young, it's also that they have no experience of the real world.

C (7:03)

Yeah, it's like there's a documentary about Hasidic Jews called One of Us. It's really interesting. And one of the things that is explored in that is that when people leave, the majority of them will come back. And a lot of them have drug problems.

B (7:20)

Yeah.

C (7:22)

And it wasn't just young boys that were being lost. On January 4, 2004, Jeffs turned up to a morning prayer service. It had been more than a year since he'd taken the top job, but he hadn't been seen in Colorado City for months. And the 1500 plus people in the congregation could sense something ominous. When Warren Jeffs reached the pulpit, he exploded into a fiery rant about how they had let their God down and worse, him down. This tirade lasted for more than half an hour. And Geoff's just got more angry and more intense as he went on. He said that because of the failures of the community, God had told him 21 names of Master deceivers that were in the community.

B (8:07)

He's just following the classic Not Even Cult Leader, the classic despot handbook.

C (8:14)

He called out these 21 men by name, told them to stand up, and he excommunicated them. And in a few sentences, Warren Jeffs not only kicked them out of the church, but wrenched their whole lives from them. These men were divorced from their wives and separated from their children. The families were reassigned to other men. Warren Jeffs asked these men to raise their right hands if they believed what he was saying was the Word of God. And the 21 excommunicated men lifted their hands. Then Warren Jeffs asked the congregation to do the same. And one by one, 1,500 people lifted their hands too. In a thick silence, the 21 men made their way out of the church without a word to their families that many would never ever see again.

B (9:10)

And the excommunication hit even harder because these were prominent figures in the church and community. The list of men who'd been excommunicated included the Barlow brothers, who had been instrumental in spreading Warren Jeff's ultimate God given power in the flds. It also included the mayor of Colorado City and four of Warren Jeff's own brothers. And this is the thing, this is what I mean when I say it's classic despot style. You don't get rid of the lowest. That doesn't prove anything. You get rid of high ranking people around you, A to show that anybody can go and B to make sure there's nobody in those upper echelons of power in your own community who could plot against you to overthrow you. Nobody should feel safe. And he just instinctively knows that. So one of his four brothers that Warren Jeffs kicked out of the church, Wallace Jeffs had two wives and 20 children, all of whom were told that Wallis was the son of Satan. And Wallis never saw any of his family ever again. Two weeks after the banishment, Jeffs gave a sermon. He said, if your feelings can be disturbed, you simply need more of the spirit of God to earn more of that sweet spirit. You must pay the price. The price is sacrifice. Focus your mind, your desires, your all. On keeping sweet, Geoffs had demonstrated his ultimate control to the people, not only on their lives, their families and their homes, but on their emotions too. And by removing those in positions of power who had sway over the community, Jeff simply expanded his own control.

C (11:00)

Sam Brower dug deeper. He went to Colorado City and saw an entire community being terrorised by just one man. One man who hand selected every police officer, all of whom reported to him. A man who owned all of the homes and kicked families out on a whim. Sam Brower heard of girls married and pregnant as young as 14 and then locked into a life of servitude before they'd even reached adulthood. Physically, they could leave, but they had nothing. No money, no assets and absolutely not a clue how the outside world worked. All they knew about the non FLDS society was how wicked it was. So to leave your family and everything you know with no support network is a really tall order. But still, incredibly, some women did. Some had brothers on the outside who had been excommunicated and forced to rebuild their lives. And Brower, along with reporter Mike Watkiss and author John Kralker, who we met last week, got in touch. And between them, they found even more victims and documented Warren Jeff's crimes. One of the people they found was Ruth Stubbs. She'd been 16 years old when she was made to marry someone called Rodney Holm, a Colorado City police officer. She was his second wife and was pregnant before she was 17. And the trial of this polygamous policeman made headlines. And although this man received no punishment, he was found guilty. So that's at least a start. Finally, a chink was appearing in Warren Jeffs armour.

B (12:43)

A subpoena was issued for Jeffs related to a child bigamy case. Child bigamy, that's. That's the wrong phrase. Multiple child abuse, I would say, but there you go. So Jeff started spending less and less time in Colorado City. He had a network of hiding houses across the Southwest. He'd occasionally pop up in the middle of the night to perform a marriage before quickly stealing away again. He sent orders and enforced rules through his network of faithful cronies. Jeff started to express doubt about the city, saying that it had been desecrated, by which he really means that Utah's laws were too harsh on bigamy and he wanted to run away to somewhere more lax. So Jeffs sent his people out to look for a new HQ. Before long, the church purchased almost 1700 acres of land just outside El Dorado, Texas. High up, FLDS members left Colorado City and started to build a village there. Every week a new structure appeared. A meeting hall, a cheese factory. Huge 30,000 square foot houses, and soon enough, a giant bright white limestone temple. FLDS scripture says with the laying of the last stone of the temple, the people shall be raised up to Zion. And so when the new village was completed, the complex was named the Yearning for Zion Ranch. Now, Zion is used by Mormons to mean quite a lot of things, but generally it refers to a perfect chosen land which the faithful would inherit. So when families were called from Colorado City to Zion, it was the greatest honor. But life wasn't much better for most. Many men had to go to work every hour of the day. And if they got tired, they just had to ask the Lord for the strength to keep going. After all, the main goal of life on earth was to prove your worthiness for the afterlife. If you worked hard enough, God would recognise your sacrifice and maybe, just maybe, whisper your name to the Prophet to give you another wife. Maybe he would grant you a higher up position in the church. It was the only way to get the super exalted afterlife you'd always dreamed of.

C (15:06)

The Yearning for Zion settlement had the infrastructure to support 2,000 people. When Geoff started to move his wives down to Texas, rumours swirled that he was planning to transfer the entire FLDS church down to El Dorado. Not least because punishments for underage marriage and bigamy are quite a lot softer in Texas than they are in Utah. And the legal age of marriage at that time in Texas was just 14 plus. Texas law enforcement had more reason than most to be wary of lawless groups out in the desert. The failed raid of the Branch Davidian compound in Waco just a decade previously had put them off the idea of another raid. So the police were slightly looser on that too. And while the dictator profit was thriving, life just got harder in Colorado City. In addition to the 10% of their earnings that they were already tithing to the church, the people who lived there now had to cough up an extra thousand dollars a month.

B (16:06)

That's crazy. What?

C (16:08)

Well, get a load of this. We know that he banned music, banned dancing. He also banned toys, pets, schooling, reading, sports and laughter. And many, many children and adults just carried on blindly. Obedient. But not all of them.

B (16:26)

My God, please everyone just take this as a lesson. Like just think. Just think long and hard about everything that anybody asks you to do or believe. Please. So on the 23rd of January 2003, FLDS member Ross Chatwin stood in front of his Colorado City home and gave a press conference. It was the first press conference in the history of the FLDS. A few days earlier, just weeks after the 21 men had been excommunicated, the church had decided that Chatwin's wife Laurie was to be reassigned. But unlike those 21, Laurie and Ross Chatwin refused. In a statement to the nation's press, Ross publicly denounced the Prophet. And this is what he My family and I do not plan on leaving our home anytime soon. I am pleased to report that my wife has submitted to stay by my side. It is difficult for me to find the words that can express to her how much I appreciate her. Ross then referred to Geoffs as Hitler. Like FLDS members on the whole, were obedient and didn't know any different. But when you start tearing families apart, there's only so much that people can accept. At the same time, many of the Lost Boys who had been sent from the church had found their feet and realised they had cause for lawsuits. Being kicked out of your home for listening to Whitney Houston is not exactly legal, especially not if you're caught doing it by the police and then punished by the church. Stories were spreading in nearby towns of teenage marriages and pregnancies. In response to all the attention, Colorado City became even more insular, watched closely by the press and law enforcement alike. None of the townsfolk would cooperate, of course, with investigators. They just shut their curtains and even boarded up windows to try and avoid prying eyes.

C (18:29)

But the network of those people outside of the church were just getting stronger. One of them was Flora Jessop. She had been raised in Colorado City in the FLDS under Rulon Jeffs, and she was one of 28 siblings and was abused as a child. And Flora remembers very clearly Warren Jeffs constantly trying to touch girls and boys. At just 14, Flora Flora filed a sex abuse charge against her own father, but it was dismissed by a judge. Flora's family said that if she didn't marry the man she was assigned, she would be sent to a mental hospital. So she married the man and then ran away. At 18, she drifted for a while, topless, dancing to make ends meet and to fuel her cocaine addiction. But then Flora had a daughter. She got clean and she got married and went increasingly public with her accusations. She heard that her sister Ruby had been forced to marry her older stepbrother. At the age of 14, Ruby was raped on her wedding night and almost bled to death. And Flora decided that something had to be done. So she founded an organisation to help women and children escape the church. She even began to sneak into Colorado City in the middle of the night to rescue women and children herself. Hidden meeting points were set up nearby to ease the transport of people who were running away from the town. Incredibly, Flora was characterised by some local press as an attention seeker who was taking children away from their families. Public opinion was mixed. Some people were concerned about the rumours that they were hearing. But many thought that the FLDS should just be left to their own devices. And then a judge told Flora to stop. But stop she did not. All she did was inspire loads of others and a small revolution began.

B (20:25)

Meanwhile, Warren Jeffs was on the run. The heat on him was rising. And in January 2004, two vehicles left Colorado City. They carried Warren Jeffs, his wife Naomi, his brother Leroy, and John Wayman, who dealt with all of the church's money. Jeffs travelled the south in gentile clothes and carried burner phones. With only a few specific numbers. He installed his Brother Lyle Jeffs as the bishop and sent orders through him. Every week, the struggling FLDS community would bring envelopes of cash and post them into boxes. And that cash went straight to Warren Jeff's. And despite being on the run, he wasn't exactly lying low. They did all sorts of ungodly shit, this group of his driving Harley Davidsons, going to strip clubs and watching porn in his hotel rooms. They even went to Disneyland and to New Orleans to live it up for Mardi Gras.

C (21:25)

It's the most un Mormon event.

B (21:27)

Yep. And all the while, Geoff's told his entourage that God had sent them to these wicked places to be witnesses to the immorality of the Gentiles. Side note, Hurricane Katrina hit just six months after they went to New Orleans, and Jeffs, egotistical as ever, was convinced that he had called on God to destroy it. Fuck you, you piece of shit. So while Jeffs traveled, he had virtually unlimited money because he's scamming it out of all of the people that are in his bloody church. He also had piles and piles of disguises, prepaid credit cards, and a team of people employed to keep him untraceable. And police knew that he spent a lot of time at the Yearning for Zion Ranch. But there still wasn't enough evidence against him to get a search warrant. It was difficult even to know what charges to bring against him. All they had was word that underage marriages were happening. But no church member had come forward who was willing to testify first hand. And most plural marriages weren't legally binding. They would only register the first in order to get the food stamps. The others were just spiritual unions.

C (22:40)

In 2005, Utah attorney Roger hall heard from an ex FLDS member called Elissa Wall. Just like Flora, at 14, she was made to marry her cousin. He was much older than her and not a nice guy. Very soon into their marriage, Elissa was subjected to mental, physical, and sexual abuse. She had multiple miscarriages, all of which were blamed on her disobedience. But she developed a friendship with another member of the community, someone called Lamont. Lamont reassured Alyssa and made her feel safe. And then, before they knew it, they'd fallen in love. A picture of the two of them together made it to the bishop, and Elissa was called into his office. And once she got into the office, Warren, Jeff's disembodied voice barked out from a phone. He called her adulteress, and he praised her husband for his dedication to the church. And that, for Alyssa, was the last straw. She fucked off immediately. She and Lamont ran away. They stayed in Utah with a few other ex FLDS members. Elissa got a phone call from her sister Rebecca, who'd left the church years before. Rebecca had got married at 19, but knew that Elissa's story could be perfect to bring to court if she was prepared to do it. And she'd already come this far. So Alyssa said yes. Roger hall, the attorney and police investigators had their angle. There was a provable case to be made against Warren Jeffs and as an accomplice to rape. That charge had never been brought before, but it would be enough to bring Warren Jeffs down. So they decided to run with it. And just in time, because their investigation was just about to get another massive leg up. In May 2006, investigators heard from the FBI.

B (24:41)

The FBI had been watching the case closely and said they wanted to get Warren Jeffs put on their Most Wanted list. The top 10 most wanted list is firstly, yes, a very real thing. And it tracks the most dangerous fugitives being hunted by the FBI at that time. When Warren Jeffs joined this list, he shared top billing with Osama Bin Laden. Hannah, can you name me any of the current top 10 as we are recording this on the 9th of June, 2023?

C (25:13)

Julian.

B (25:13)

Ass. No. Oh, I don't recognize any of these people. Oh, really? I'm probably fucked up, I think. Yeah, no, there's, there's very little chance that you will name any of these people. Looks very gang y. Ooh, interesting. But yeah, it's a real thing.

C (25:28)

Wow.

B (25:29)

And the FBI also got in the man himself, Sam Brower, to help with the investigation. Yep, he is that good. That the FBI literally like, Sam, we need your help now. It wasn't long before Warren's brother Seth was found in Colorado and arrested for aiding and abetting a federal fugitive. They found that an average of £300,000 every week was going to Warren Jeffs. And this was nothing new. This church was built on shady financial practices, money laundering and large scale fraud. Just like Joseph Smith. They would routinely set up shell corporations to hide property and cash from the government. They owed millions of dollars to lending institutions. They called it Bleeding the Beast.

C (26:18)

Oh God. Like drain the Swamp.

B (26:20)

Yeah. They considered the government to be an evil cabal of demons. So they absolutely rinsed it for all it was worth. The government funded a new $2.8 million airport in Colorado City. The city got a $1.9 million grant from the U.S. department of Housing and Urban Development to pave the streets and improve the Fire department and water system. And Arizona State paid them over $12 million a year for health insurance. Most of those on the Arizona side of the border were also claiming food stamps. So altogether, this community got about eight times the welfare of other towns while barely paying anything in tax.

C (27:03)

For the FLDS church and especially for Warren Jeffs, everyone and everything was an enemy that deserved to be bled dry in the quest for eternal salvation. And Jeffs approach was even more fundamentalist than his father's was. But it was absolutely about more than faith. There was something much more insidious going on. Warren Jeffs has been strongly linked by quite a lot of people to narcissistic personality disorder and possibly sociopathy. And both of those diagnoses would fit with his ruthless quest for power. He caused a lot of pain, he never showed any regret, and I don't think he's ever even heard of the word empathy. And he held onto his power by excommunicating any potential threats and painting them as demons in the community, which is pretty telling. Even the later revelations of systemic child abuse throughout his life could say more about his desire for power over the most vulnerable than it does about his actual sexual desires. Sam Brower has also made a case in his book that he believes Warren Jeffs is a schizophrenic. It was a common disease in his family on his mother's side, and that gene pool is small. And reports of Jeff's interrupting conversations to listen to voices were common too. In what he called his heavenly sessions, Warren Jess would claim to speak to both God and his dead father. At any moment, Warren Jess could be suddenly struck with a session. And sometimes he claimed to have physically been walking and talking with God. These heavenly sessions could continue for hours. Jeffs had grand, dramatic and paranoid visions of foreign invaders. And he was convinced that hired assassins were on his tail.

B (28:58)

When Warren Jeffs had taken over the church from his father. He also decided, as cult leaders very often do, that every word he said was brilliant and worth noting down. So he chose his favourite of his brides, Naomi, to be his first scribe. And the writing is truly insane, but it is very, very detailed. And these diaries reveal grotesque truths about the way Geoff thought about his young wives. This is a quote or an excerpt from these. These young girls have been given to me to be taught how to come into the presence of God. From their youngest years before they go through teenage doubting and boy troubles. Naomi also wrote how she would train a new heavenly comfort wife. She said that it was important to stand back in silence when their new husband went into a heavenly session. Unless, that is, things turned sexual. In One entry from the 11th of April, 2005, Warren suddenly sits up and says, wow, whatever you say. Yes, sir. And he reported that God had told him to collect a quote. Pure, innocent girl. So obviously, Warren Jeffs is just following orders.

C (30:18)

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

B (30:20)

And God had identified that this pure, innocent girl that Jeffs was to find was Brenda Fisher. Brenda was just 12 years old. Whatever combination of revolting things were happening in Geoff's brain, however much he actually believed, made him uniquely dangerous. And he was able to manipulate large numbers of people to a frankly, incredible degree. But it couldn't last forever.

C (30:50)

On 28 August, 2006, a highway trooper was driving 20 miles north of Las Vegas when he saw a car with obscured license plates. The trooper pulled the car over and asked for id. The driver was none other than Warren's brother, one of his many brothers, but a brother all the same. Isaac Jeffs. And the trooper thought that the surname did ring a bell. So he started to question the other passengers in the car. In the front seat was Naomi, and there was a man in the backseat eating a salad. And that man was Warren Jeffs. The more the trooper had a look at Warren Jeffs, he noticed a vein throbbing in the man's neck. And he knew that something had to be very wrong. Everyone in the car gave a different story about where they were going. They were carrying four computers, 16 cell phones, three wigs, 12 pairs of sunglasses, and more than $55,000 in cash.

B (31:54)

Fishy.

C (31:55)

And so the state trooper arrested them all. Warren Jeffs was finally in custody. And then a trial date was set, and he was extradited from Nevada to the very poetically named Purgatory Jail in Utah. The FLDS community prayed every day for their profit to be released. And while dictating a message for the congregation to an FLDS visitor, the prophet said something that absolutely no one expected. Not the FBI, not Sam Brower, and certainly not his thousands of followers. This is what Warren Jevs, I have been a liar. The truth is not in me. I am not the Prophet. I never was the Prophet. This is not a test. Panic button. Really? It seems.

B (32:50)

Yep. But very, very unusual. Yes, but no one back in Colorado City nor anyone at Yearning for Zion believed him after all those decades of obedience. What, he was just some guy all along? I don't think so. They thought it must have been the devil speaking.

C (33:09)

That old chestnut? Yeah.

B (33:10)

I mean, this is the thing. It's like if you followed this guy unwaveringly for years, you know, allowing him to bloody rape your children and destroy your families and make you do all of this crazy shit and hand over all of your money and belongings to him. Imagine suddenly being told by him that none of it was real. I think on some level you can't allow yourself to believe that. You have to believe that it must be something even more crazy, like the devil has now possessed him. So on the 11th of September, Warren Jeffs trial finally came. Surrounded by TV crews, cameras and even a SWAT team and snipers. Now the police knew how important this man was to his community and the lengths they would go to for salvation. But he was charged with two counts of rape as an accomplice. The defence, predictably enough, focused squarely on freedom of religion and referred to any attack on Jeffs as religious persecution. They also said plainly that there had been no rapes since the girls had all wanted it to happen. Which I guess is all they had really to say. But the prosecution of course hit right back, obviously that it was nothing to do with religion and so called consent given by children doesn't matter because they were talking about sex with a child. And you know, that can be hard to prove sometimes, but not when all of your child brides are pumping out kids left, right and centre.

C (34:45)

No, there really aren't two ways to look at it. And Alyssa stood bravely in the dock and told the court that Warren Jeffs had arranged for her to get married when she was just 14. She remembered going to the Prophet and saying that it didn't feel right and he just told her that her heart was wrong. Elissa also detailed the abuse she suffered at the hands of her husband. And after she'd finished her testimony, the court heard a tape. The defence team had tried to bar this tape from being admitted as evidence because it was too inflammatory, they said. But the judge agreed that you can't ban evidence just because it makes you look bad. So the tape was played. The tape was a recording of the rape of Mary Ann Jessop. Mary ann was the 12 year old bride of Warren Jeffs, whose story opened last week's episode. When Mary Ann was just nine, Warren Jeffs commanded her father to bring her to Texas to begin her training as a heavenly comfort wife. And when Mary Ann was 12 years and 24 days old, she married Warren Jeffs. Two weeks after the ceremony, she was brought to the bright white ceremonial bed and assisted by two other wives. Marianne was ritually assaulted. The recording is just about as bad as you can imagine it's a lot of Geoff panting mixed in with some ritual chanting and cries about God's revelations. And with the extent of Warren Jeff's evil ringing through the courtroom, the trial was over.

B (36:28)

The jury deliberated for a quite frankly, unbelievable 16 hours over three days. Like, what is that to discuss? I don't know. But eventually they did return a guilty verdict. But since the charge was only for rape, as an accomplice, Warren Jeffs faced a minimum sentence of just five years for each charge. As he awaited his sentence, Warren Jeffs stewed in a prison cell. He refused to eat, so much so that he was fitted with a tube that ran through his nose and into his stomach. Sometimes he would stand staring at himself in the mirror for 40 minutes at a time or stand in the middle of the room staring at the floor, frozen for over an hour. Day by day, he grew thinner and pastier. But his powers on those in the outside seemed to have stayed just as strong. His sermons and instructions were communicated throughout the community and thousands were hanging on his every word. Inevitably, his incarceration only martyred Jeff's, turning him into living proof that the gentiles and the apostates were trying to take down God's chosen people. Every week he would use his phone to make a sermon over speakerphone to a full church of people. Warren Jeffs had been given just 10 years for rape as an accomplice. But just months after his conviction, he was extradited to Kingman, Arizona. There he faced four counts of sexual misconduct with a minor, four counts of incest, and one count of conspiracy to commit sexual conduct with a minor.

C (38:09)

And whilst he waited for that trial, things in Colorado City reached breaking point. In 2008, Child Protection Services heard from a 16 year old mother pregnant with her second child. She was being abused and she wanted out.

B (38:23)

I guess that's the thing, isn't it? Because before they couldn't get a search warrant because Warren Jeffs wasn't there all the time. That's why he went into his little hidey holes all over the country. But now they have a credible phone call from somebody inside asking for help so they can go. And that's when they see all of this.

C (38:39)

And police raced down to look for the girl. But the people of yearning for Zion made it impossible. While they waited, though, they came across the journals of teenage girls telling story after story of underage marriage, sex and pregnancy. And they saw pregnant girls who were blatantly underage and with children in very clear and present danger. The investigation Ramped up a notch. They've already got the FBI. Now it's the big boys. On April 4th, the police and SWAT teams stormed Colorado City. A judge had ordered all of the young children to be taken away, 416 of them. All of the children were taken in a series of buses to compounds and disused fairgrounds with blacked out windows. They were screaming and crying because they'd just been wrenched from their mums. And that's kind of the angle that quite a lot of the news went with. And you might remember the 1953 raid we spoke about last week, where more than 200 children were taken from polygamous families in Short Creek and put into foster care. Well, back then, the media outcry against children ripped from their mothers arms was enough to get them all returned.

B (39:57)

So the FLDS tried it again and ran a targeted media campaign to reunite the families. FLDS women appeared on Oprah and Larry King saying definitively that they had never heard of underage marriages or pregnancies in the church. Like, how can you even say that there's a 16 year old that's pregnant for the second fucking time? How did that happen? Amor and Jeffs hired expensive lawyers who he instructed directly to lie. Because all of this was, of course, bollocks. Especially since families had been ripped apart for decades on the whim of their profit. But not knowing any of this information, not knowing anything about what had been going on behind closed doors, the public were horrified. And 28 weeks later, sensitive to public pressure, the authorities backtracked and returned all of the kits, just like they had done in 1953. What didn't help was that the original call to Child Services had been traced and it turned out to have been a hoax. Oh my God. Still, during the raids, 12 men had been arrested and 11 were convicted. So it doesn't matter that that particular call was a hoax. They found evidence that this kind of thing was happening. And that's not all, because authorities also found a treasure trove of documents, pictures and priesthood records. And suddenly things looked even worse for Warren Jeffs.

C (41:26)

Thanks to the tireless efforts of the sheriff, David Doran. The incredible courage of survivors speaking out against intense intimidation and years of research by Sam Brower, Mike Watkiss and Jon Krauker and countless other key investigators. Finally the investigation got access to the temple. And there they found up a set of winding stairs, a gaping bright white room that held the custom built ceremonial bed on which Warren Jeffs assaulted his new brides. And in the back of that room, they found a vault here. In Geoff's own words and the words of his followers was every single minute detail of his abuse over the years. There were computers with terabyte after terabyte of information. There were pictures of him kissing young girls, pictures of young girls with their newborn babies, and even church records detailing marriages and births. And there was proof of him assaulting children as young as five boys and girls, including his own nephew

B (42:37)

Jeffs. Arizona charges had been reversed by a judge, but in August 2011, Warren Jeffs was extradited to Texas to face a jury yet again. This time the charges were sexual assault of a child, aggravated sexual assault of a child under the age of 14 and bigamy. All of these are first degree felonies, each with a potential life sentence. So finally, now we're fucking talking. The tape was brought out again and played to a jury of 10 women and two men. They saw pictures of the gangly middle aged prophet with a string of child brides. They saw DNA evidence that he had fathered a child with a 15 year old girl. And they were told in detail about the conditions of the FLDS under his leadership and the 300 plus families he had broken up for disobedience. And having dismissed several teams of defence lawyers, Jeffs did the classic thing and defended himself. He read from a statement that he had prepared and this is what he. I will rest your power. I shall judge you. I shall let all peoples know your unjust ways. I will send a scourge upon the counties of prosecutorial zeal to be humbled by sickness and death.

C (43:57)

What?

B (43:58)

Sure, sure, Jeff, honestly, he's just on another planet.

C (44:03)

His own planet. His own Mormon planet.

B (44:05)

Quite, quite.

C (44:07)

Jeffs would also stop for long periods of silence to be instructed by spirits on how to proceed with his own defence. And after fumbling his way through a completely bizarre trial, Jeffs turned to the jury and said, I am at peace.

B (44:24)

Well, good for you.

C (44:24)

You're the only one. After just 40 minutes of deliberation, this time the jury found Warren Jeffs Guilty on two counts of rape. One of a 15 year old and one of a 12 year old. At the punishment phase, U.S. attorney Special Prosecutor Angela Goodwin brought yet more evidence to the table. And this evidence showed that Warren Jeffs conducted marriages of 67 underage girls to FLDS men. It also showed that the 55 year old Jeffs had 78 wives, 24 of them being underage. And so Warren Jeffs received a life sentence for aggravated sexual assault plus 20 years and a fine of £10,000. And that fine was for the sexual assault of a child. I don't feel like a fine is enough.

B (45:15)

No. Ten years on, the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is still going strong. By some estimates, there are still more than 10,000 FLDS members. But the Yearning for Zion Ranch was raided and shut down. However, new settlements have been built in Pringle, Dakota. Yes, Pringle, South Dakota. Mancos, Colorado, Minnow, Minot and Grand Marius, Minnesota. Some of these FLDS people have crossed borders and settled in Mexico and Canada. Warren Jeffs today is still behind bars in Palestine, Texas.

C (45:53)

America is made up. There is not somewhere in Texas called Palestine. That is nuts.

B (45:57)

There's everything. It's so big. And last year he even released a book of prophecies that came to him while he was apparently in a cell called Jesus Message to All Nations. And Jeffs, despite everything, is still considered to be a prophet by many. But it's unclear who, if anyone, is still fully in charge of flds. The last reported president was Wendell Nielsen, who had also been convicted and jailed. Last year it was reported that 46 year old Samuel Bateman declared himself prophet. He is said to have had more than 20 wives, many of whom were under 15. And just like the rest of them, he claimed that he believed it to be God's will to engage in sexual acts with them. Bateman led a splinter group of FLDS supporters to the Utah, Arizona border. He has since been arrested by the FBI, charged with 51 felonies and jailed. Now all of the 10,000 strong FLDS faithful just need to wait for a sign from God to tell them who to follow next.

C (47:06)

I just can't believe it's still happening. They're still there.

B (47:09)

Yep.

C (47:10)

God, that's awful. So there you have it. Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints Morm Storm for you.

B (47:18)

That is it. I mean, it is the mormiest of morms with Warren Jeffs. There you go, guys. Two parter. Done. I never want to talk about this man again. Disgusting human being.

C (47:27)

I won't make you.

B (47:28)

No, but I'm glad he's in prison. At least that is something. Yes.

C (47:31)

Yeah, they got him.

B (47:32)

Yeah, they got him. So that's it, guys. And if you know that was quite upsetting, I completely understand. And to make yourself feel better, you can head on over and listen to the shorthand that we released this Tuesday exclusively on Amazon Music on the topic of rabies.

C (47:46)

Oh, fun.

B (47:47)

So why not go check that out and we'll see you next time.

C (47:50)

Bye.