Kouri Richins – Part Two: The ‘Author' Who Killed with Fentanyl | #443

Summary

RedHanded Podcast #443 Summary
Episode: Kouri Richins – Part Two: The ‘Author' Who Killed with Fentanyl
Release Date: April 2, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode continues RedHanded’s deep dive into the Kouri Richins case, focusing on the high-profile Utah trial of the real estate agent accused of murdering her husband, Eric Richins, using fentanyl. Hosts Hannah and Nicola dissect crucial trial days, testify credibility, financial motives, evidence of premeditation, and the psychological makeup of Kouri. The episode highlights the shambolic crime scene, unreliable key witnesses, overwhelming financial fraud, and the infamous “Walk the Dog” jailhouse letter, building a disturbing portrait of manipulation, greed, and cold calculation.

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Key Discussion Points

Crime Scene & Initial Investigation

• The scene processing and early police work was widely criticized.
  • Police failed to test an empty expired hydrocodone bottle (01:42).
  • They didn’t test drinking glasses for fentanyl, or Eric’s hair for long-term drug use (04:31, 05:20).
  • Forensics found no paraphernalia, and at the time didn’t suspect overdose.

Notable Quotes:

• “The forensics team said there was no drug paraphernalia at the scene. We didn’t even know we had died of a drug overdose.” – Hannah (02:26)
• “What sort of drug addict has leftover pills lying around?” – Nicola (03:07)

Prosecution’s Case: Drugs & Motive

• The “Michael Jackson Stuff” Texts: Kouri asked housekeeper Carmen Lauber for “something stronger — that Michael Jackson stuff,” code for a heavy-duty sedative or opioid (06:31).
• Timeline links this request to an alleged failed Valentine’s Day poisoning attempt.

Notable Segment:

• [07:44] — Alleged first attempt: Kouri brings Eric lunch, he becomes inexplicably ill, and she discourages a hospital visit, lying about her whereabouts.

Key Witnesses: Reliability In Doubt

• Carmen Lauber (Housekeeper & Alleged Drug Supplier):

  • Testified under the weight of a potential 20-year sentence; deal offered in exchange for testimony (08:30–14:05).
  • Repeatedly denied, then eventually “remembered” obtaining fentanyl for Kouri after federal threats.
  • Repeatedly requested a “blueprint” from investigators on what to say (17:18).
  • “I want to do what I can help do, what needs to be done to fix this.” – Carmen (13:38)
  • Her credibility is eviscerated by defense, who point out she only implicated Kouri after coercion.

• Robert Crozier (Alleged Fentanyl Source):

  • Initially told detectives he sold fentanyl, later recanted on the stand, blaming police pressure and his own confusion (17:51–18:11).
  • “He didn’t have a motive to change his story from the one he originally told police.” – Nicola (19:50)
  • Defense argues Oxycodone supplied was legitimate pharmacy-stock, unlikely laced with fentanyl.

Alternative Theories

• Defense claims Eric could have overdosed on tainted THC gummies — dismissed due to lack of THC traces in toxicology (26:40).
  • “How could he possibly have been taking these gummies ... and there'd be no THC in his body after he died?” – Nicola (26:51)
• Speculation that someone else (e.g., the late handyman) could have sourced fentanyl for Kouri, but testimony is hearsay.

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Motive: Financial Ruin & Fraud

• Forensic accountant testifies Kouri’s finances were “breathtakingly bad” (34:50).
  • Over $4.5 million in debt, $2000/day in interest (35:56).
  • Stole $45,000 from best friend Chelsea (32:54).
  • Over $7 million in debt by 2021 (41:56).
  • Forged Eric’s signature to take loans, wrote fraudulent checks, and attempted to change beneficiaries on life insurance.
  • “Less than half of that money [life insurance] had been used to pay off her debts.” – Hannah (46:38)

Notable Quote:

• “It’s so much more than just being bad with money. There’s all sorts of shady stuff going on.” – Nicola (36:59)

Eric's Precautions

• Eric discovers Kouri’s fraudulent behavior and creates a trust to protect assets, unbeknownst to her (41:56).
  • “If you are scared ... tell them that you’ve done it because Eric doesn't tell her. And so she thinks it’s worth killing him.” – Hannah (41:56)

The Walk The Dog Letter (Day 12)

• Six-page jailhouse letter from Kouri to her mother, found in her cell, instructs her family how to coach testimony and shape a narrative blaming Eric and Mexico for illicit drugs (64:06–71:41).
  • Evident attempts at jury tampering, witness coaching, and covering tracks with “Walk the dog” (code for destroying evidence).
  • Defense comically claims the letter was “fiction”. The judge disagrees.

Notable Excerpt:

• “Take vague notes of all of this so you remember before you walk the dog…” – Kouri’s letter (64:06)

Kouri’s Psychological Profile

• Hosts repeatedly note her grandiosity, narcissism, projection, and lack of remorse.
  • “I think Corey is a person who's clearly capable of living with a lot of chaos in her life...” – Hannah (80:53)
  • “She felt entitled to everything Eric had, just that comment of like, he wouldn't give me what I wanted.” – Hannah (80:53)
• She accuses others (including the victim) of exactly what she is doing herself.

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The Verdict & Jury

• Both sides rest unexpectedly after just two weeks (75:34).
• Prosecution presents nearly 40 witnesses; defense presents zero (76:25).
• Closing argument highlight: Prosecution lets a timer run for six silent minutes to show how long Kouri waited to attempt CPR (77:28).
• Kouri convicted on all five counts after under 3 hours of deliberation; sentencing set for Eric’s birthday (78:25).

Memorable Reactions:

• “She looks the most affected when something is directly concerning her... she dropped her head to hide her face.” – Hannah (78:25)
• “The evidence was just too strong.” – Hannah recounting post-trial jury interviews (80:53)

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Memorable Quotes & Moments (Selected with Timestamps)

• [03:07] “What sort of drug addict has leftover pills lying around?” – Nicola
• [06:31] “I need something stronger. That Michael Jackson stuff?” – Kouri Richins (via text, paraphrased)
• [07:44] “After he ate it, he became incredibly unwell... Was this a trial run for the final poisoning or perhaps a failed attempt?” – Nicola
• [14:05] “I really can’t. Like, I just, I don’t even know if it was because I kind... I, like I said, I can barely remember...” – Carmen Lauber, under pressure
• [17:18] “When she says, give me a blueprint, that’s what I say to people when they ask me to do things...” – Nicola
• [41:56] “If you are scared ... tell them that you've done it because Eric doesn’t tell her. And so she thinks it’s worth killing him.” – Hannah
• [64:06] “Walk the dog, but take vague notes so you remember.” – Kouri Richins, letter
• [71:51] “They tried to claim that this was a fictional story Kouri was writing to kill time... It’s laughable.” – Hannah
• [77:28] “They walked the jury through everything, even letting a timer run for six minutes to show how long it took Kouri Richins to start to even pretend to do CPR on Eric...” – Nicola
• [80:24] “And all in all, the jury got it right.” – Nicola

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Structure of the Trial: Key Days Overview (approximate timestamps)

• Days 2–3 ([01:42–05:34]): Crime scene failings, early investigation, focus on absence of direct drug evidence.
• Day 4 ([05:34–15:58]): Introduction/attacks on Carmen Lauber; drug sourcing.
• Day 6–9 ([31:42–61:59]): Friend betrayals, Kouri’s frauds, Josh Grossman’s testimony.
• Day 12 ([64:06–74:41]): The “Walk The Dog” letter.
• Day 13 ([75:34–78:25]): Closing arguments, verdict.
• Psychological wrap-up ([80:53–end]): Judge and jury reactions, character analysis, reflections on family aftermath.

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Conclusions & Analysis

The episode paints Kouri Richins as a deeply manipulative, grandiose individual driven by greed and moral vacancy, whose financial desperation and entitlement led to the calculated murder of her husband. The lack of direct evidence is overwhelmed by a mountain of circumstantial, digital, and behavioral evidence, coupled with her attempts to steer the narrative from jail. The hosts argue convincingly that the jury, faced with overwhelming dishonesty and deliberate witness manipulation, reached the only rational verdict.

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Final Thoughts

• Kouri’s depravity is matched only by her ineptitude; her crimes are outlandishly brazen yet sloppily executed.
• The hosts urge listeners: if you need to protect assets from a partner, don’t keep it secret—tell someone, and involve a lawyer (84:10).
• The tragic consequence: three boys left without either parent, and a community shaken by the “author who killed with fentanyl.”

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End of Summary

Transcript

[Hannah]

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[Doug]

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[Nicola]

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[Doug]

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[Nicola]

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[Doug]

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[Nicola]

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[Hannah]

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[Nicola]

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[Hannah]

Welcome back to Red Handed and Part two of the case against Corey Richins. Today we are going to pick straight back up where we left you last time in the midst of this unbelievable trial. Days two and three, they mainly focused on the scene and what the police found or didn't find, or at least didn't test. The defence grilled the first responders on why they didn't collect and test a hydrocodone bottle that they had found in Eric's bedside table. So this bottle that they find, it had expired in 2016. He dies in 2022. It's a long time expired. Also, the bottle is empty. It's just an empty prescription bottle that they find and it was also found in a drawer with a load of other things. So when the police find it, they were obviously looking for drug paraphernalia or something that could explain this death. But when they find it, remember, they don't even know he's died of a drug overdose. At this point, they don't think it's relevant. And the defense also point to, from, like, crime scene photos, there are, like, these tiny white specks on top of the bedside table. Like a couple of tiny white specks. Like. Like this. A couple of random specks. And again, they're like, what are they? Why didn't you test them? The forensics team said there was no drug paraphernalia at the scene. We didn't even know we had died of a drug overdose. We didn't think the empty pill bottle or some tiny white specks seemed relevant at the time. And so they don't collect anything, they don't test anything, though they were forced

[Nicola]

to admit that addicts can hide illicit drugs in prescription bottles as a cover. But they also found a nearly full bottle of pain pills in the house that had been prescribed for Eric years before, which does beg the question, what sort of drug addict has leftover pills lying around? You know, you can tell who's an alcoholic by how little booze they have in their house.

[Hannah]

Why would he have that? And then you're hyper fixating on this empty bottle of, like, hydrocodone pills that are found, like, in his bedside table. I get why the defense are doing it. They have to poke holes where they can. They're right. The police did not test that bottle. They can't prove there was no fentanyl in there. The defense can't prove that it was, but they don't need to. But, yeah, the fact that there's packets of pills that they find in the house that have been prescribed to him after a previous injury that he hadn't taken. And his sister Katie is like, he didn't like taking them. He didn't like the effect it had. And I get that's not everybody's reaction, but I can really relate to that. I've had, you know, I had the surgery in December, multiple rounds of other things. When I was packing up and moving back to my house this weekend, hooray. I found so many boxes of pills, so many boxes of pills. And, like, my dad's got a sporadically bad back. And I was like, do you want all these pills? And he was like, yes, please. I was like, have them. Like, there is just no Way, I believe that Eric could have been a drug addict who was addicted to pain pills and then there's just like years worth of pain prescription pills in the house. I don't know.

[Nicola]

I will say though, after I stopped smoking and I cleared out a cupboard and I found a whole packet of cigarettes and I was like, the amount of times I have ripped this flat apart and they were there the whole time and now I can't physically can't. Hypnosis is crazy anyway, the injustice anyway. All in all, the initial accidental overloads theory means the police work on the night was sorely lacking. For example, they didn't test the drinking glasses in the house for fentanyl. So again, the state couldn't prove that, that that was how Eric had consumed the drugs.

[Hannah]

Because remember, they say that she, Corey, crushed up the pills and put them in the Moscow Mule. They don't test the glasses, so we don't know that that's how he ingested them or that's how he took them or was given them.

[Nicola]

And frustratingly, they also didn't test Eric's hair to see if there were signs of long term drug abuse in there, which just left another gap for the defence to needle into. And that's all they need to do.

[Hannah]

It is. So day four of the trial is where things got very interesting again, because this is when we met Carmen Lauber, the housekeeper and alleged drug dealer, who, according to the prosecution, is the one who secured the fentanyl for Corey. And look, Carmen is a weird one. She doesn't exactly come across as credible, but she comes across as very composed and she handles herself very well on the stand. And there were text messages between Corey Richards and Carmen about drugs. Right? They haven't just Todd Gabler isn't just like, there's this woman in her life who has at some point or is at some point or is still selling narcotics, distributing narcotics. Get her. There are texts, clear texts between Corey and Carmen about drugs. In early February 2022, Corey had asked Carmen to get pain pills for her foreign investor.

[Nicola]

Mm, sure.

[Hannah]

Which seems that Carmen delivered on. That's what the texts seem to indicate. And then Corey in these texts has gone back to Carmen that same month and said, I need something stronger. That Michael Jackson stuff?

[Nicola]

Hmm, quite.

[Hannah]

Now, look, just to be clear, Michael Jackson did not die of a fentanyl overdose. He died of propofol. Like that is a different drug. But she is not saying names of drugs. Never at any point does Corey rich and say, I need fentanyl. She doesn't say I need Propofol. She doesn't say that. I need something stronger. That Michael Jackson stuff. There is conversations prior to this about Oxys. Oxy's, Roxies. Oxycodone. Right, so that's what the defense say. She never asked for Fentanyl. She only ever asked for Oxys. And Eric didn't die of Oxys. So, like, you can't place Corey Richards with Fentanyl.

[Nicola]

Yeah, but when people run out of Oxys, guess what they take.

[Hannah]

And also, sorry, she's asking for the Michael Jackson stuff. We'll come back to this. What is interesting here specifically about the timing is that this exchange came right before Valentine's Day, 2022, a month before Eric dies, when Corey apparently tried to kill Eric for the first time.

[Nicola]

And that brings us very neatly onto that aggravated attempted murder charge. That day, Corey stopped by Eric's work and brought him some lunch. After he ate it, he became incredibly unwell. The texts between the pair that day show that Eric was scared and thinking about going to the hospital, but Corey told him to stay home. She said that she was just at one of her properties waiting on a cabinet maker, but she would be back as soon as she could to take care of him. In reality, Corey was actually with her lover, Josh Grossman. Was this a trial run for the final poisoning or perhaps a failed attempt? According to the prosecution?

[Hannah]

Yes, they say a failed attempt. I don't know. I really don't know about this. We'll come on to it later. But this is what is alleged at trial and this is what corresponds to that attempted murder charge. And the defence had an absolute fucking field day with Carmen, because as it turned out, Carmen Lauber had quite a lot to gain from testifying for the state. It turned out by the time the police caught up with her, thanks to the tip off from PI Todd Gabler, who actually tells the police she's on the ropes at Drugs Court. By the time they catch up with her, she's in a lot of trouble. Basically, Drugs Court is like a rehab program that drug offenders have to complete in order to avoid jail time. But obviously, as part of that, you have to be clean and you have to not be involved in anything related to narcotics. But Carmen Lauber was using again and the police came in with a pretty sweet deal for her. And look, this is already dodgy. This is already getting into the grounds of dodgy business. But it only got worse when the defense showed that the first seven times Carmen was interviewed by the police, she had repeatedly Said that she did not get fentanyl for Corey Richards. She's very clear about that. She even admits to buying and moving meth, heroin, oxy. She's like, yeah, did all of that, but I don't do fentanyl. And she says that she didn't do fentanyl because her own daughter had overdosed on fentanyl a couple of times. So she was absolutely terrified of it and didn't go anywhere near it. But then on their eighth go at her, the police came back with a DEA agent and threatened Carmen with federal charges amounting to a minimum 20 years in federal prison. And it was at this point that Carmen suddenly remembered the fentanyl that she'd got for Corey.

[Investigator]

That's a fair question, Carmen. And we're getting down to the brass tacks of this. And so I feel like we owe it to you to kind of start talking to you about what we do know. What we do know is within a day or two after Eric dying, you got a new phone. Okay.

[Carmen Lauber]

I think that's because that one died, possibly.

[Investigator]

We. We also know that there are texts between you and Corey that were deleted. I get it. I delete them, too. Again, we're not looking to put new charges on you, but we're getting down to that area. We need to be more open and honest with each other, because there's things that we're talking to you about that conflict with some evidence that we have to an extent. Again, I'm not here to beat you over the head with it as a cooperating witness. That information is actually really good for you. And frankly, is now a good time to kind of talk to her about the conversation? So here's where it's at. McKay in your drug court. Okay, they are looking for. And this can be upsetting, but let me finish. They are looking to pull your drug court deal and ask for seven years on your two first. Five years for the first, the one felony, and then a 40% portion for the second for seven years. The only exception to that, and the only thing that they're willing to kind of help you out with is if you can help us out with this. And by so he means, like, give us the details that will ensure Corey gets convicted of murder.

[Carmen Lauber]

Oh, my God.

[Investigator]

This is a serious case. I know. Listen, don't.

[Nicola]

Don't freak out, okay?

[Investigator]

Because this is a long process, and this is a good thing, and there's good news for you. So there's. There's one more consideration that McKay has. Do you need a minute?

[Carmen Lauber]

No, go.

[Investigator]

And this is kind of funny because

[Carmen Lauber]

it's nothing funny about that.

[Investigator]

Well, the second part is it looks like you guys figured out how and when people were going to test. Looking at your text messages. You and Bon Savage.

[Carmen Lauber]

We did those.

[Investigator]

And that's awesome. I want to know how you are you, Are you tracking with me what

[Hannah]

I'm saying, what you're throwing.

[Investigator]

Believe me, we need, we need hard details. There's no more struggles.

[Carmen Lauber]

I'm going to do whatever because I have struggled so hard to get with my math.

[Investigator]

That's great motivation.

[Carmen Lauber]

And I literally want to complete drug court and I want to move out of state. I want to leave all this behind.

[Investigator]

Well, that's the only way you get,

[Carmen Lauber]

like, I, I don't want no time with nobody. I'm going to change my phone number. Me and Troy were talking about it, like, completion of drug court.

[Investigator]

My drug court.

[Nicola]

Yeah.

[Carmen Lauber]

I told him, you call him that. He laughed. I said, you know, you're known as Mr. Vegas.

[Investigator]

I think that's what you need to do, Carmen.

[Carmen Lauber]

Even my daughter, I, I. And he's an amazing person. Like, I've never had some of that came in my life. Like, I'm willing, like, day of graduation. I want, I want to be gone my. I want to leave Heidi's house. I want no toxic nobody in my life. I don't.

[Investigator]

We have some hurdles here.

[Carmen Lauber]

And that's why I said I, I no longer want to work for the quarries. Sorry. Sorry. I, I don't want. I want to do what I can help do, what needs to be done to fix this.

[Investigator]

Well, I feel like that, as you were telling us that, you know, there was some talk about, can you get one? MJ had, and it was kind of very superficial. Can you retell that story with all the detailing you can remember?

[Carmen Lauber]

I really can't. Like, I just, I don't even know if it was because I, I kind. I, like I said, I can barely remember some of it because it was so long ago, but I want to say it was the Michael Jackson. And like I said, I, I, So

[Investigator]

tell, tell me how that conversation would be structured. She sends you a text and she, she tells you.

[Carmen Lauber]

I want to say, maybe she did say that.

[Investigator]

She says, can you get.

[Carmen Lauber]

She said in person, michael Jackson, he died.

[Investigator]

So tell me how that would have been said, because I didn't know Michael Jackson died.

[Carmen Lauber]

I didn't know what you knew he did.

[Investigator]

Like I said, I knew it was a drug overdose, but, like, not specifically fentanyl, was it. I Didn't say it. Look it up.

[Carmen Lauber]

Look it up too.

[Hannah]

But.

[Investigator]

So the thought was insinuated that she wanted you to get something that somebody could die from.

[Carmen Lauber]

I know one thing that when we got one, it wasn't dark enough. See, I don't even know how bent on Lily told.

[Investigator]

So there was a couple of.

[Carmen Lauber]

There was one. There was one.

[Investigator]

Okay now or even somewhere I can

[Carmen Lauber]

see in your face transactions. So I wanted. Here. It's so beautiful.

[Hannah]

But okay.

[Carmen Lauber]

So I want to say when she. She asked but like I said. Oh, I can't remember when you think

[Investigator]

we'll give you all the time in the world that you need to think and remember karma. But I just want you. I want you to know that if. If you're going to work with us

[Carmen Lauber]

here, it would be so easy if you had like pieces that we can like, like blueprint.

[Investigator]

You're the biggest piece.

[Carmen Lauber]

I don't want to be that big.

[Investigator]

Well, the good news is that big piece helps you out.

[Carmen Lauber]

That's what like I said, you hold all the time. I love Eric. He was a damn good dude and he didn't deserve. It was done intentionally. He did not deserve it.

[Investigator]

We believe you. And that's why we're here working on what your get out of jail free card looks like based on this information. But there's three little boys that don't have a dad. There's a family that doesn't have a brother. When I get that, Cory's out with a deal. But.

[Carmen Lauber]

But like you guys said, she's living her life right now. And that's. Everybody else is suffering like them.

[Investigator]

That's. That's.

[Carmen Lauber]

Little boys love their daddy.

[Investigator]

I'm sure they did.

[Carmen Lauber]

They. I mean, I've seen it there. Their. Eric was their. That was their. That was his pride. Not them boys were his everything. And they. People complain about he was gone all the time or he wore so much. But you know what?

[Hannah]

At the end of the night when

[Carmen Lauber]

he come in, them boys were there and he was like I said that it weighed heavy on me.

[Nicola]

And the defence naturally pounced on this. As they should. It looked a lot like Carmen Lauber was being offered a literal get out of jail free card. As long as she gave them evidence to put Corey Richards away.

[Hannah]

Yeah. It's like one of the worst examples of this I've seen. They literally say this is your gap jail free card. And they say as long as you give us the evidence we need to put Corey Richards away for murder. It's like it's. It's not the best.

[Nicola]

And it even sounded like Carmen was asking investigators to tell her what to write down. When she says, give me a blueprint, that's what I say to people when they ask me to do things for them. I'm like, okay, you tell me the points I need to hit and I'll do it.

[Hannah]

Yeah. And it only got worse for Carmen when the man that she bought the drugs off, a man named Robert Crozier, then took the stand. Because when he was first talked to by the police, he said he had sold fentanyl pills to Carmen. But now on the stand, he told a very different story.

[Nicola]

He said that back in 2022, he wasn't selling fentanyl at all. People were scared of it. There was no demand. He said it was just Oxy's, but he had just gone along with what the police wanted him to say because he was so high and scared during that interview. And it does seem that way in the footage.

[Hannah]

Yeah. I've watched the footage of this interview between Robert Crozier and the police, and he is. Fuck, he is a mess. He is terrified. I also think he's misunderstanding what the police are even asking him. They're like, did you sell this woman fentanyl? And he's like, yes. But it's like he thinks that they are accusing him of misleading somebody as to what he sold them. Like, I don't think he even understands what they're asking him. And they're asking him his number. He's like, I am so out of it, I don't even know my number. And yes, some people don't know their number, but I think Robert Crozier genuinely doesn't know what's going on.

[Nicola]

But at trial, he says that he's clean now and he knows that he has to tell the truth, and he claims that that's what he did.

[Hannah]

Yeah. And there's loads of back and forth in court about the pills that Robert Crozier sold to Carmen and could they just have been contaminated with Fentanyl? So, like, he thinks he's selling her Oxys, but it was actually Fentanyl. And Robert Crozier says maybe, but that was incredibly unlikely since he said he was getting his Oxy, not from, like, you know, suppliers who were, like, making it for the street. He had a prescription for Oxys and he was getting other people who had prescriptions for Oxys. He was going to actual pharmacies, getting the Oxys and then selling them on the street. So he's like, it's very unlikely that the oxy's I was supplying were tainted with Fentanyl. But Carmen insists that she definitely asked Robert Crozier for Fentanyl and that's what he gave her. She says, I didn't ask for Oxyzer, I asked for Fentanyl and that's what he gave me. And there's no text to really back this up, so it's just kind of a he said, she said. It's all a complete mess. And honestly, I think it just comes down to who you believe.

[Nicola]

And they both changed their stories all over the place. But Carmen had a motive to lie to the police and a motive to lie on the stand. Robert Crozier didn't. He didn't have a motive to change his story from the one he originally told police. No one was trying to go after him for selling Fentanyl. So at least for our money, he does come across more trustworthy in court than Carmen does.

[Hannah]

When I wear makeup, I still want to actually look like myself. Loads of brands focus on covering up your natural features, but Jones Road Beauty is all about highlighting what makes you beautiful, which I love. Their miracle balm has honestly become a holy grail product for me. I just dab it on wherever I want to. Add a little pop of light to my skin and it gives me a natural glow up in seconds. I can even do it on the tube when rushing to meetings. And the best part of Jones Road Beauty? Their products are also good for your skin. Each formula is packed with skin loving ingredients that don't cake or clog pores. It basically feels like you're not even wearing makeup, which is honestly the dream. If you want makeup that brings out your natural glow instead of hiding it, Jones Road is the way to go. For a limited time, our listeners are getting a free Shimmer face oil on their first purchase when they use Code Red Handed at checkout, just head to Jonesroadbeauty.com and use code Redhanded at checkout. After you purchase they will ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them our show sent you.

[Nicola]

Starting your own business is exciting, but it's also daunting, lonely, terrifying. All of those things. Back in the early days of Red handed we felt like we suddenly had a million different hats to wear. Organizing research scripts, finding equipment, building a recording schedule. It never stopped. It was all worth it as our little podcast baby grew up and soared. But we definitely could have benefited from the right e commerce platform to help us Co parent for millions of businesses including household names like Gymshark and Skims. That tool is Shopify. Want people to discover your brand? Shopify helps you find your customers with easy to run email and social media campaigns. Start your business today with the industry's best business partner, Shopify and Start. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at shopify.com redhanded go to shopify.com redhanded that's shopify.com redhanded when I

[Hannah]

wear makeup, I still want to actually look like myself. Loads of brands focus on covering up your natural features, but Jones Road Beauty is all about highlighting what makes you beautiful, which I love. Their miracle balm has honestly become a holy grail product for me. I just dab it on wherever I want to. Add a little pop of light to my skin and it gives me a natural glow up in seconds. I can even do it on the tube when rushing to meetings. And the best part of Jones Road Beauty? Their products are also good for your skin. Each formula is packed with skin loving ingredients that don't cake or clog pores. It basically feels like you're not even wearing makeup, which is honestly the dream. If you want makeup that brings out your natural glow instead of hiding it, Jones Road is the way to go. For a limited time, our listeners are getting a free Shimmer face oil on their first purchase when they use Code Red Handed at checkout. Just head to Jonesroadbeauty.com and use code Redhanded at checkout. After you purchase, they will ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them our show sent you.

[Nicola]

Starting your own business is exciting, but it's also daunting, lonely, terrifying, all of those things. Back in the early days of Red Handed, we felt like we suddenly had a million different hats to wear. Organising research scripts, finding equipment, building a recording schedule. It never stopped. It was all worth it as our little podcast baby grew up and soared. But we definitely could have benefited from the right e commerce platform to help us co parent for millions of businesses including household names like Gymshark and Skims. That tool is Shopify. Want people to discover your brand? Shopify helps you find your customers with easy to run email and social media campaigns. Start your business today with the industry's best business partner, Shopify and Start. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at shopify.comredhanded go to shopify.comredhanded that's shopify.comredhanded

[Hannah]

the defence was trying to show that Corey didn't have the means to get fentanyl. And if that was the case, well, then she couldn't have killed Eric. And undermining Carmen Lorber is a great move. But for me, the whole fentanyl or not fentanyl thing is honestly a bit of a red herring for some people. This might be a bit of a smoking gun. Like, if Corey didn't get fentanyl from Carmen, then where does she get fentanyl from? I don't think it matters. Corey says in that text message to Carmen Lorber, I want that Michael Jackson stuff, which, like I said, is actually propofol, not fentanyl. But Michael Jackson died of that stuff. Why would you ask for it if your intention was not to use it to either die or kill someone? As Robert Crozier himself said, people are fucking scared of fentanyl because even people who are taking drugs don't want to fucking die. They don't want to have an overdose. So why would you ask for something you knew had killed a man? Like, unless you had nefarious reasons? She clearly asked Carmen for something strong enough to kill someone, and she was clearly buying drugs. That is, like, irrefutable. There is evidence there. She is buying drugs, and then her husband suddenly dies of a drug overdose. There's too many mental gymnastics I would have to do to think that those things are not connected. The only way this becomes even mildly irrelevant is if Eric was also separate to Corey's drug buying, also secretly buying and taking drugs. But there is no evidence at all to back that up, other than him occasionally taking THC gummies. And of course, the defense make a big deal of this. They also put forward the theory that maybe these THC gummies that he was buying could have been laced with fentanyl. And he didn't know he was taking fentanyl, but he accidentally did, and that's what killed him. Which, like, maybe they did live in a state in which recreational marijuana isn't legal. So if he had been buying these THC gummies off random people, who knows? They could have been tainted. But, like, I've seen the pictures of his, like, stash of THC gummies that he has in his house. They're all packaged up properly. They look like he's probably just got mates in other parts of the country. And he's like, hey, can you just buy me some fucking gummies? Again, I know there have been cases of tainted THC gummies that look legit. So I'm not saying it's not possible, but the next bit you're about to explain is why I don't think that's what was going on.

[Nicola]

And also, like, they live in a state where the majority of people don't drink coffee. So I can see how the defense are like. But it's a gateway drug, of course. If he has this in his house, what else was he doing?

[Hannah]

You know, he's taking thc. He could also secretly been taking fentanyl.

[Nicola]

I'm like, yeah. I mean, my mother thinks heroin and weed are the same. Like, those people exist when everyone thought

[Hannah]

I was addicted to heroin.

[Nicola]

I still do. Anyway, Corey claims that Eric took these gummies every single night and would just zone out and not help her with the kids. But there was no THC in Eric's system. And THC is detectable for 30 days. So is alcohol. Wow. So it's never gone. That's why in Russia, the. There's no, like, drink driving limit. It's just zero. So in order to drive, you have to be teetotal. How could he possibly have been taking these gummies? Gateway gummies. Every single day. And there'd be no THC in his body after he died.

[Hannah]

Like, if he's taking THC every day, and he's just lucky that all of the other ones are just thc because he's having a great time. He's taking them. He's, like, zoning out, not helping with the kids. And then one day, just one of them happens to be laced with fentanyl, and it kills him. Like, were the other ones not laced with fentanyl and just purely fentanyl and no thc? That's why there's no THC justice.

[Nicola]

Just one in this entire bag. Lucky dip.

[Hannah]

It just doesn't make any sense. And she's trying to make Eric look like he is this, like, seedy drug addict. And I'm like, percy, there's no evidence. No evidence in terms of, like, him buying drugs other than the THC gummies that he's got in his house. And also no evidence in his life. Like, as in he has a very, very successful life that he's leading. There's no evidence whatsoever of any of that. Corey is just throwing as much shit as possible at everybody, which, like, of course she's going to do. Of course her defense is going to do. But it doesn't ring true. No.

[Nicola]

And of course, people can hide things. Some people hide these things extraordinarily well. But the behaviors would become a bit more obvious. Usually before a fatal overdose. Eric was running a really successful business. He was very involved in his kids lives. He did things like coaching sports teams, etc. And he paid for underprivileged kids to have the same access to those clubs that his boys did. And there were no drugs found at the house apart from that one bottle of pain pills from years ago. And some THC gummies. And texts between him and Corey show that often it was actually her instigating the nighttime gummies that they had.

[Hannah]

So who knows? Who knows, right? To me it just feels like too much of a coincidence. There's only one person we can prove was buying drugs at the time that Eric dies of a drug overdose. It's worth mentioning however though, that there was another man, a handyman who worked for Corrie, who she had allegedly asked to help her buy fentanyl. Now he had apparently been outraged by this request, but he actually died before the trial. So his girlfriend, a woman named Anna Isabel, actually testified. But the thing is, she could only speak to what she had overheard during this phone conversation which took place on the 2nd of January, 2022. So she is not a part of the conversation. She's just standing next to her boyfriend while he's on the phone, allegedly with Corey Richards. And apparently he's pissed off that she asked him to buy him fentanyl. Being like, what kind of person do you think I am? He puts the phone down and then he tells his girlfriend, can you believe what this crazy bitch asked for me? So she can only testify to that. So it's going to be obviously like, it's not as strong as if that guy was still alive and could testify to it himself.

[Nicola]

And then there were texts that Corey Richins had sent to her lover Josh about drugs. Like, I just finished watching Murder Mountain and wanted to ask you something. Have you ever taken drugs? It's so out of the blue and he's like, we've spoken about this before. The answer's no. But Corey keeps digging anyway, saying she can't remember having had that conversation. She goads him to reveal more and Josh just sounds confused. And these are really strange, they don't really read like her trying to get him to buy drugs for her, but it's like almost like she's trying to set him up.

[Hannah]

I don't know why she's asking him these questions. Maybe she was trying to feel around if he was like, oh yeah, I still take some stuff. I've got a guy who hooks me up, maybe. But it's just so weird. He's like, we've already spoken about this like before, like, why are you asking me about this? And she's like, haha. Lol, I don't remember. Can you just tell me again? Why do you want it in text? It feels like she wants to get it down in writing. I don't know, it's weird.

[Nicola]

And there was also a text a few weeks after Eric died in which Corey asked the Iraq war veteran if he'd ever killed anyone before and how

[Hannah]

it felt to kill somebody again. Is it her having some sort of like, difficulty processing what she's done because she has killed Eric and she's asking the only other person that she knows who may have killed somebody, even though I don't think that's true. You know how it feels. Or again, is she trying to weirdly set him up? I don't know. It's strange.

[Nicola]

I just also feel like it's weird that the people she's having these conversations with are her housekeeper and her handyman.

[Hannah]

Yeah, well, as we'll find out, all of her fucking friends hate her. Because day six of the trial is when things get very heated because Corey Richen's own friends start taking the stand to testify against her. And this included a lady named Becky Lloyd, who told the court that Corey had confided in her that she felt trapped in her marriage. And, and this is according to Becky, quote, in some ways, it would be easier if he, Eric, just died. Now the defense did rebut this, playing a recording of Becky telling detectives before the trial that she couldn't say for sure 100% that that's exactly what Corey had said, but it was definitely along those lines. So obviously that just undermined Becky a little bit on the stand. She is like, no, that's what she said. She did say that to me. Then there was Chelsea Barney. We already met Chelsea Barney. She was the childhood friend of Corey, who she text about how hard she had worked to save Eric's life that night. And in January 2022, Chelsea had decided to buy a house. Through her BFF, Corey's Real Estate Business,

[Nicola]

Chelsea handed over $45,000 of savings to Corey for a down payment on a new house. She was short 15 grand, but Corey assured her, don't worry, I'll sort that out for you. You just get the mortgage. And Chelsea did. But Corey didn't use that money to secure a house for Chelsea. She put it straight into her own bank account and used it to. To prop up her business. And that is fraud. It's illegal.

[Hannah]

Oh yeah, she's gonna face these like, this trial might be over. There's a lot more to come for Corey Richards. And this is the thing where some people genuinely are like, oh, I think I look at the trust, Eric, put all of the money in again, we're gonna come to that. She was being financially abused by her husband. That's why she does this, that and the other. What's the reason for what she does to her best friend? What is the reason for her stealing $45,000 from her best friend because her husband is financially abusing her? Shut the up. It's because she's a piece of shit. And Chelsea, just to be clear, she says this in court. That was her life savings. She wasn't a woman who had loads of money. She was a single woman who worked in a bar. And that was majority like tips that she had saved for years to buy a house and her own best friend, Corey Rich, and just steals it. And also, can I just say, while Chelsea Bonney is giving this testimony, she's incredibly emotional because she's been betrayed by her friend and she's lost all this money. Corey Richen just sat there like deadpan, couldn't give a fuck.

[Nicola]

And Chelsea ended up losing everything, her life savings. And she was evicted as well. All down to her lifelong friend, Corey Richards. The defence reminded everyone that Corey may have lied and done all sorts of things that people didn't like, but that didn't make her a killer. Which, no, it doesn't, but it helps. And whilst all of that may be true, all of this information only served to make Corey Richins look incredibly morally bankrupt.

[Hannah]

Day seven brought with it more evidence of just how actually bankrupt she also was. Because that was the day a forensic accountant named Brooke Carrington took the stand and walked the jury through Corey Richins finances. And I was sweating just the idea the amount of debt and like poor fiscal decision making that was taking place in Corey Richen's brain. And life is enough to make you break out in a cold sweat. Because, as Brooke Harrington put it, quote, Corey Richen's debt and liabilities far outweighed her assets. Even if she sold everything, she still wouldn't be back to zero. By February 2022, Corey Richards was in $4.5 million of debt and she was paying over 2,000 pounds every single day in interest charges just to service that debt. $2,000 every single day.

[Nicola]

It's.

[Hannah]

It's just. Is staggering. Is staggering. And so Corey Richards had resorted to taking out payday loans. And in the days leading up to Eric's death, she had had seven calls with just one of the many lenders she owed money to because they're, they're chasing, they're coming to knock him. And in the five months leading up to Eric's death, Corey Richards had made over 200 transactions and was overdrawn to the tune of $300,000.

[Nicola]

So what we're saying is it's okay for me to buy that handbag.

[Hannah]

Corey Richards was doing girl math on a whole motherfucking level. She genuinely, she genuinely is just like, it'll be fine. It'll be fine. It will all be fine. I'm gonna sell this massive mansion that I've now bought and I'll clear all these debts and I'll make my millions and I'll be fine. And I've also got this book, and that's gonna sell like fucking, you know, grief hotcakes and everything's going to be a. Okay. Delusional. And that's how she's putting it. Mildly.

[Nicola]

The defence claimed that these statements were prejudicial and misrepresented the situation. Corey Richards was just bad with money, but that didn't make her a killer cool star. But it's so much more than just being bad with money. There's all sorts of shady stuff going on. Not only had Corey Richards stolen from her best friend, she'd stolen money from her husband, and she, she was forging his name on life insurance policies, trying to steal from his business, lying to banks and writing bad checks all over the place.

[Hannah]

This episode is a paid ad by BetterHelp. With the dreaded tax return season looming, so many people find themselves stressing about money matters. And while BetterHelp isn't here to give you financial advice, accessing therapy can be a positive way to manage the feelings of anxiety or shame that often come with balancing your books. It can help people explore their relationship with money, build healthier coping mechanisms, and feel less alone in the process. I found it personally really beneficial to break down my own financial fears in therapy in an environment where I know I won't be judged BetterHelp is one of the leading online therapy platforms, having served over 5 million people globally. And with an average rating of 4.9 out of 5, you can trust that you're accessing quality support. When life feels overwhelming, therapy can help. Sign up and get 10% [e-mail] redhanded. That's betterhelp.com redhanded. When I wear makeup, I still want to actually look like myself. Loads of brands focus on covering up your natural features. But Jones Road Beauty is all about highlighting what makes you beautiful, which I love. Their miracle balm has honestly become a holy grail product for me. I just dab it on wherever I want to. Add a little pop of light to my skin and it gives me a natural glow up in seconds. I can even do it on the tube when rushing to meetings. And the best part of Jones Road Beauty? Their products are also good for your skin. Each formula is packed with skin loving ingredients that don't cake or clog pores. It basically feels like you're not even wearing makeup, which is honestly the dream. If you want makeup that brings out your natural glow instead of hiding it, Jones Road is the way to go. For a limited time, our listeners are getting a free Shimmer face oil on their first purchase. When they use Code Red Handed at checkout, just head to Jonesroadbeauty.com and use code Redhanded at checkout. After you purchase they will ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them our show sent you. As the weather gets warmer, the absolute last thing I want to be dealing with is uncomfortable underwear. Thankfully I can rely on Honeylove to keep me cool, comfy and supported. Honeylove is an independent female founded brand and all their products are intelligently designed by women who actually wear them. Got a big party coming up. I know it's wedding season. Honeylove shapewear is designed to move with you so you can say goodbye to that pesky shapewear we all know rolls down as soon as you hit the dance floor. My personal favorite is the Cloud Embrace bra, a modern wireless T shirt bra with sturdy light padded foam cups that feel like a cloud against the skin. No more sweating on the tube with a painful wire digging into your ribs. Treat yourself to the most advanced bras and shapewear on the market. Use our exclusive link to save 20% off [e-mail] redhanded that's honeylove.com redhanded after you check out, they'll ask where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them we sent you. Experience the new standard in comfort and support with Honeylove.

[Nicola]

Starting your own business is exciting, but it's also daunting, lonely, terrifying. All of those things. Back in the early days of Red Handed, we felt like we suddenly had a million different hats to wear. Organising research scripts, finding equipment, building a recording schedule. It never stopped. It was all worth it. As our little podcast baby grew up and soared but we definitely could have benefited from the right e commerce platform to help us co parent for millions of businesses including household names like Gymshark and Skims. That tool is Shopify. Want people to discover your brand? Shopify helps you find your customers with easy to run email and social media campaigns. Start your business today with the industry's best business partner, Shopify and Start. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at shopify.comredhanded go to shopify.comredhanded that's shopify.comredhanded

[Hannah]

her business was falling apart. And Frank fast. Corey needed, at the time that Eric died, a massive cash injection. And the problem is that Corey Richards was under the incorrect assumption because she doesn't know about the trust. So she is under the incorrect assumption that if Eric died, she stood to gain millions more in life insurance and the family home and also substantial cash that was in his bank account.

[Nicola]

Which, if you're morally bankrupt and don't understand what an autopsy is, makes sense.

[Hannah]

Yeah, she has the problem solving skills of like a puppy. She's just like, I do this now and I get that. Okay, great. Like, she is so on another planet. And look, she doesn't know about the trust, so she thinks he's worth more to me dead than alive. And so she's like, I'm gonna get rid of him. So I would just say, look, if you are scared of somebody like your spouse and you're scared enough that you're setting up a secret trust or changing your will or doing something or whoever that person might be, tell them. Tell them that you've done it because Eric doesn't tell her. And so she thinks it's worth killing him. And I feel awful even saying that, but I'm like, I wish Erica just said to her, listen, I'm on to you and I've got a trust. And then she, even, even then she might have killed him. But yeah, and just to peek at him, because I feel absolutely incensed when I see people online falling for her bullshit. That Eric was financially controlling her and that's why he set up this trust. No, no, no. Corey Richards had been, let's be very clear, she had been, as any wife would expect, to be the sole beneficiary of everything that Eric Richins had up until 2020. And it changed then. And that's when Eric set up the trust, because that is when he discovered a massive lie. In 2019, Corey Richins had secretly forged Eric's signature and taken out a $250,000 loan against Eric's house without his knowledge. A house. Again, people are like, why? Why wasn't she on the house? Like, why isn't it a split house? Like, why doesn't she own part of the house off? He owned that house before he ever met her. He owned that house, and that's why it was in his name. And she went and got a $250,000 loan secured against that house, and she'd used that money to buy her first property to flip. But it hadn't exactly gone to plan, because by 2021, so just the next year, Corey Richards was in nearly $7 million of debt. In September 2020, Eric had also discovered that Corey had stolen $200,000 from his bank account and used his name to fraudulently apply for credit cards on which she'd run up a $30,000 debt. So I think it's fair enough that he was like, I'm going to protect my assets from this woman.

[Nicola]

Then there were the false statements Corey had manufactured to get more money. She took a bank statement for her business, cut off the top of the page where the header is, and the business details, the bit that makes it an official document. And then she added it to Eric's business statements for C and E stonemasonry, which obviously had a lot more cash in it. Well, that is what she showed to banks to get more loans.

[Hannah]

I honestly couldn't believe this worked.

[Nicola]

I was gonna say, is it that easy?

[Hannah]

Apparently so. But she almost got caught at one point.

[Nicola]

I mean, you also have to have the brass balls to sit there and look them in the eye.

[Hannah]

Exact. But that's. Her mentality is like, it'll be fine in the end. But she nearly gets caught one time, and a bank actually emailed her saying, you've got all this money, your credit score is so poor. How is that? And Corey replies, and I have to read out how she's written it. And she honestly. She writes like a fucking child. Yeah, sure. Everything has paid off. It probably just hasn't updated yet. I recently learned about all of this as well. Lol. Lol. In an email to a bank, she's like, lol. And then my husband decided to explain to me that this was his doing a while ago. We are in the process of separation for one of many reasons, but this is one of them. To keep it short and sweet. Lol. It's been crazy, to say the least. I look forward to working with you guys on our first and hopefully many projects.

[Nicola]

She's doing what Skylar does In Breaking Bad, when she's cooking the books and then the IRS come in, and she just, like, dresses up like a bindo and is like, well, I don't know.

[Hannah]

Yeah, but I think that is also who Corry is.

[Nicola]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

Fair. She's not secretly pulling things off and then just like, oh, I don't know. She is like, oh, I don't know. And I don't know.

[Nicola]

Lol.

[Hannah]

The amount this woman says, lol. It's disgusting.

[Nicola]

And she's also accusing Eric of exactly what she's doing.

[Hannah]

Ugh.

[Nicola]

And may we just remind everyone that even after all of this, Eric doesn't cut her off entirely. She got 1.3 million in life insurance payments.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Nicola]

Which, by the way, she spent in four months.

[Hannah]

Four months.

[Nicola]

Less than half of that money had been used to pay off her debts.

[Hannah]

Because when I heard she spent it in four months, I was like, oh, okay. Fair enough. She's in a lot of debt. No, no, no.

[Nicola]

That's not how people like her work.

[Hannah]

No.

[Nicola]

They're like, oh, I've got away with it.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Nicola]

More boats.

[Hannah]

Yummy.

[Nicola]

At first, Eric had even gone to a divorce attorney. He pulled out, saying that he wanted to make his marriage work. So I just don't really buy the idea that Eric was this financially abusive man. Corey is the kind of person who felt entitled to his money. She even called Eric's best friend, Bryce, after she found out about the trust. And here it is.

[Corey Richards]

Yeah. I took $250,000 off of our house. Do you know how much in real estate we own today? Because I did that. $11 million worth of real estate. Do you know why I did that, Bryce? Because Eric would never let me work. Eric never trusted me. And believing me. No. But I want you to know that. Would you do. Would you do it? Would you take 250,000 to make $11 million?

[Investigator]

Well, that's tricky, right? Like, communication was the big thing for Eric. Right?

[Corey Richards]

He told me no, Bryce. I believe in myself. He told me no, but I knew I could do it because I know what I can do. I'm Bryce. I wouldn't do something that I didn't know that I knew I could do. I'm not stupid, Bryce. I own 12 properties that are almost all paid off, Including. Yeah. Including my own house that I've almost paid off. Like, I own multiple houses in Park Street City, in Mill Creek, in Saratoga Springs, and Mill and Heber and Midway, and all because I did that. And they all go to my kids. $11 million of real estate. Property because I took $250,000 price. He just never gave me a chance. He never gave me a chance because he didn't believe in me. And he can say whatever he wanted. He can say I stole from him, he can say whatever. But at the end of the day, that $250,000 price was paid off in seven months and turned into $11 million.

[Hannah]

Oh my God. It is diabolical. She is just like. So just in case it isn't clear, the 250,000 she's talking about here is the money she stole from Eric by secretly getting a loan against a house that he owned. There is no remorse, no understanding of why Eric might be furious to find out about a secret quarter of a million dollar loan that has been taken out against his house. It's like she thinks he's overreacting. At one point she says, how is it my fault if his baby feelings got hurt? It's disgusting. And the whole I took $250,000 and turned it into 11 million. LOL. Corey. No you fucking didn't.

[Nicola]

Of debt.

[Hannah]

Yeah. She's so fucking stupid. She doesn't own those houses outright. Just because you have the deeds to a bunch of houses that are worth in total 11 million, you don't own them outright. So you don't own $11 million worth of real estate. You're up to your eyeballs in fucking debt. She's so stupid. And the pathetic. Like, he didn't believe in me. He told me no. That is such a. Like, that is such a. He told me no. Because she obviously went to him at first and was like, can I have some money to start this real estate business? I think he was like, I know you're terrible with money and no, I'm not going to give you a quarter of a million dollars to buy a house. Which I don't think I'm convinced you're going to be able to do. And I'm sorry, that's a shame. But it's Eric's money. He doesn't have to invest in her fucking business. And she's like, he told me no. He didn't believe in me. That's why he wouldn't give me the money. She's so entitled. Like somebody tells you no and you're like, well, okay, I'm gonna do it anyway. I'm gonna take it anyway. Again, she's accusing him of being controlling because he wouldn't give her whatever she wanted. As if like his self protection and his self preservation was his abuse of her. She's Ugh. So diabolical. And it gets even worse because this is classic, classic, classic, classic. And look, we'll talk about Corey's psychology like at the end of the epis, but like, it just feels redundant to even call anyone a narcissist anymore. But like, is there another word for what's going on here? Because what she does is always, always accuse everybody of everything that she is doing. And then anytime anyone fights back, she attacks them. So when this call between her. So the guy that's on the, on the other end is Eric's best friend, Bryce. And this is after Eric has died. And when this comes out and he testifies and this call is played, she then goes on the attack with him. And the defense pulls up these texts that are exchanged between Eric and Bryce. And they're basically, Corey is claiming that the two of them were having a secret gay affair behind her back. And so she's the real victim. These texts are like two guys having jokes. Like nothing about that at all seems serious, that they were having some sort of homosexual secret affair. She is mad. She's mad. It's the classic victimhood inversion tactic that narcissists tend to use to manipulate and avoid any accountability for their actions, while always, always, always shifting blame onto the actual victim. Who in this case is Eric.

[Nicola]

And those who are, you know, standing in defense of Corey Richards saying that she's been financially abused and that in some way diminishes her responsibility. All you're doing by saying that is invalidating the experiences of women who have actually been coercively controlled by their partners.

[Hannah]

Yes, absolutely, I see you.

[Nicola]

Corey Richins was even stupid enough to try and change the beneficiary on a work life insurance policy that Eric had with his business partner who's called Cody. They actually had one out on each other. They had a policy that essentially granted them 2 million if the other partner died to buy out the deceased partner's half of the company. Corey, in all of her infinite wisdom, didn't really understand what that meant, so she tried to log in to change the beneficiary of this policy from Cody to herself.

[Hannah]

It's a buy sell agreement. It's an agreement that there is a two million dollar life insurance policy on each of them, but that money can only be used to buy the other half of the business for the other partner so that nobody else can come in and buy it. She is so stupid.

[Nicola]

And obviously a life insurance company that is specifically built to stop these things from happening flagged this and alerted Eric and Cody of what Corey had tried to do. The defence challenged why all of this was relevant, claiming this behaviour had nothing to do with Eric's murder. But the judge allowed it, reminding the jury to only use this information to assess Corey Richards motive, not her character. Because being a dickhead isn't illegal.

[Hannah]

Ugh. It's so, so gross. And honestly, she's just. I can't use this word enough. She's so stupid. That Midway mansion, the one that she paid $2.9 million for and closed two days after her husband died, she bought that despite all the reports and surveys, painting an absolutely dire picture. That property, it's massive, it's sprawling. It's like multiple properties on this huge plot of land. And it was derelict for years. There was structural damage. There was animals living in the ventilation pipes. It was also sat on wetland that hadn't even been evaluated yet for whether it would be, like, you know, safe to continue occupying that property. And get this, the mansion. The mansion, the giant fucking house wasn't even connected to the public sewer system. Like, it's just unbelievable that anybody would buy this house. It also had been vandalized multiple times and had been left exposed to the elements for years. But Corey Richards was like, no, no, no, that's mine. I'm buying it. I'm gonna fix this right up. She even sent a text to her lover, Josh, saying the following. I have a crazy dream. You quit your job, I divorce and come off with millions. We buy Midway and live in the guest house and rent out the huge house as a big event center. 15,000 a day. Like they charge down the road, maybe 12 to stay competitive. And we just run the event center as our daily jobs and hang out every day, raise some kids, have a little farm deal. Everything's just so easy. Everything's just so easy. I'm gonna buy this completely derelict building. We're gonna do it up, and then I'm gonna get $15,000 that day for it. She is mad.

[Nicola]

Then there were other texts that really stood out as well. 11 days before Eric died, Corey texted Josh saying, babe, I miss you. I want you today, every day. Not just sexually, but physically, mentally, every day. When I wake up, I want to do a future together. I do want you to figure out life together. If he could just go away and you could just be here, life would be perfect. I love you. I did care what my deal is today.

[Hannah]

Sorry.

[Nicola]

And then 15 days before Eric died, if I was divorced right now and asked you to marry me tomorrow, would you? I Just want to lay on the couch, watch a murder documentary and snuggle. Is it starring you? Is it you playing yourself?

[Hannah]

But yeah. Don't let these texts to Josh Grossman fool you. I do not think that Corrie loved him at all. Basically, she used him. She let Josh live for free in the houses that she would buy that she was flipping. Most of them weren't even in livable condition. He would live in there and do all of the work for her, like fix it all up, do all of the construction work, et cetera, et cetera. And then she would just pay him when she could. So she's getting free labor on tap?

[Nicola]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

And, yeah, it's all just pretty, pretty grim. She's using him for attention and free labor. And we learned all this on day eight when Josh himself took the stand to deliver some very emotional testimony.

[Investigator]

During that time that you were romantically involved with Ms. Richards, did you love her?

[Hannah]

Yes.

[Investigator]

During that time, did you feel that she loved you?

[Hannah]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Investigator]

I have a tendency of going head

[Hannah]

over heels, though, probably more than most. So, you know, I think she did.

[Investigator]

Did you exchange text messages with Corey Richards?

[Doug]

Yes.

[Investigator]

From the time you moved to Utah. About how often?

[Hannah]

Daily. Unless she was mad at me or vice versa.

[Investigator]

What topics on those messages did you discuss?

[Doug]

Same thing you would discuss with your best friend.

[Hannah]

Friend plus house flipping stuff. Life.

[Nicola]

And it is really difficult not to feel sorry for him. Yes, he did know that she was married, but Corey Richards was telling him how horrible Eric was all the time. How she felt controlled and trapped and how she really wanted to be with him. Josh didn't have much, and by his own admission, he falls too easily for people. Corey used him for her own needs. She didn't even pay him properly for the work he was doing because she knew how desperate he was.

[Hannah]

How is this not coercive control? She's always like, yeah, we're gonna be together. We're gonna be together. If you keep working on that house. Keep working on that house for me for free. I'll pay you when I can. You can live here, though, for free.

[Nicola]

And then nine months after Eric died, Corey Richards dumped Josh. And it is savage. When you watch Corey in court, she just looks so unbothered most of the time. The only time she looks even a little bit bothered is when someone is saying something negative about her. When Josh is testifying and crying, she looks bored. And when the judge gives him a break because he's so emotional, Corey reapplies her lip gloss.

[Hannah]

It's crazy. The Judge is like, I'm really sorry. I feel like you need a moment here. He can empathize with this person on a human level who's having to sit in front of Corey Richards. They're reading out all of the text messages they've sent. And he also feels awful about what happened to Eric. And he's crying. The judge gives him a break. And Cory's like, she's putting on her lipstick. It is. It's like, do you not know the jury is watching you?

[Nicola]

She's only really visibly riled up when the forensic accountant is telling everyone in the room how shit she is at business.

[Hannah]

Doesn't like that. She doesn't like that at all.

[Nicola]

Or when her friends testify against her.

[Hannah]

And on day nine of the trial, we saw more of Corey and Eric's friends take the stand, including a woman named Ali Staking, who testified that Corey had actually confided in her about the affair with Josh way, way back in June, 2022 years before Eric died. But Ali also said something interesting. She said that randomly in February 2022. So the month before Eric dies, two weeks before he died, to be precise, Ali had visited the Richins, and Corey had told her that she'd broken it off with Josh months ago. She's like, oh, that affair I told you about years ago, that's over now. I'm definitely not seeing him anymore. It's completely over. But we know that's not true. She stays with Josh for nine months after Eric died. So why is she telling her friend that it was over? Because actually, as she was telling Ally that it was over, Josh and Corey were planning a luxury Caribbean holiday together the following month. It really feels like Corey is lying to Ali, telling her, oh, you know that affair I told you about years ago? Yeah, don't worry about that. That's definitely over. And not a thing you should ever mention to anybody. No matter what happens to Eric, it really feels like she knows that soon she might be under some serious scrutiny. And a secret affair probably wouldn't be a good thing to come out because Ali said she never asked.

[Nicola]

Ali also testified about the alleged Valentine's Day poisoning attempt, saying that Eric and Corey had joked with her about it, which is odd. Eric was worried enough about Corey that he moved all of his assets into a trust and allegedly told his family if anything happened to him, then Corey was to blame. But then he just jokes after he got sick on Valentine's Day.

[Hannah]

Yeah, Ali's like, they were just joking, being like, oh, she's trying to poison me, blah blah. I don't get it. It's weird. Maybe he's couldn't really believe that that would happen. Maybe the trust is about him thinking she would divorce him. I don't know. And we don't know that he actually told his family if anything happens to me, it's her to blame because it's only ever them saying that.

[Nicola]

Yeah. And as we said, Eric had been to a divorce attorney in the months before his death, but he changed his mind. He pulled out. He said he wanted to make it work.

[Hannah]

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[Nicola]

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[Corey Richards]

now.

[Hannah]

The next couple of days at trial were peppered with police and PI testimony. The next big day that really caught my attention was day 12. And this is when we finally saw the walk the dog letter. And fuck me, it bonkers. On the 14th of September, 2023, while Corey was in jail awaiting her trial, her cell was searched. And inside a book in this cell they found a six page handwritten letter. And it started with the words walk the dog, but take vague notes so you remember. And I'm going to read you not all of it, but some choice bits out of this letter handwritten in Corey's own fair hand. And walk the dog at the top. Not a discussion about what that actually means. Sky is saying even if the gummies have fentanyl in them, the prosecutors will say I tried to put the fentanyl in the gummies so Eric would have them. Stupid, I know, but that's what she's thinking. We will still test them though. However, she wants to link Eric to getting drugs from Mexico. So we need some kind of connection. Her private investigator is going to do some research on the ranch cartel place Eric would stay at when he goes to Mexico. But here's what I'm thinking. You have to talk to Ronnie. Ronnie is her brother, right? So this letter is very obviously written to her mother, Lisa Darden, and Ronnie is Corey's brother. And she's telling her mother, you need to talk to Ronnie. He would probably have to testify to this, but it's super short, not a lot to it. He will need to tell sky, that's her attorney, at the meeting next week. Upon information and belief brackets, just like they say, upon information. Belief is a legal term that she's throwing in there because she thinks she's so fucking smart. A year prior to Eric's death, Ronnie was over watching football one Sunday and Eric and Ronnie were chatting about Eric's Mexico trips. Eric told Ronnie he gets pain pills and fentanyl from Mexico from the workers at the ranch. And he told Ronnie not to tell me because I would get mad because I always said he just gets high every night and won't help take care of the kids. And then she says, there's some pictures on my phone of Eric passed out. Sure Ronnie should have texts from Eric talking about getting high as well. Eric told Ronnie he keeps them in an allergy pill bottle in his work truck so I won't find them. Ronnie never told me about this conversation. Eric finally told me and asked me if Carmen could get him some more. Eric never wanted anyone to know that he had an issue, especially get caught. He always wanted me to go down for him. And then it goes on with accusations she makes about like him hiding drugs in her suitcase when they would go on holiday and laughing about it and basically being like ha ha ha. Well you'll be the one that goes to prison if you get caught with my drugs in your suitcase. And then she goes down and she's put asterisks and there's asterisks next to to walk the dog. Reword this however he needs to to make the point. Just be sure to include it all. The connection has to be made with Mexico and drugs and Eric. Ronnie will have the messages to prove Eric confided in him about getting high. He can just be short and to the point, but it has to be done upon information and belief. Lol. They never found pain pills or fentanyl in my house because we hid it in an allergy pill bottle in the truck and. And Cody emptied out the truck within a week. Cody's his business partner and it's a business truck and that's why they never found it. When you talk to Ronnie about this, again, this is addressing her mother. Meet up with him in person. I worry sometimes your house and phone are bugged. Maybe drive down to Salt Lake and meet him after work Without Bri. I think Bri is Ronnie's wife. Sky has to make the connection between Eric and Mexico because that makes the most sense in her mind. If it's Ronnie's information and belief about the conversation over football, she can use that as a connection. Tell Ronnie not to overanalyze it. It was just a quick two minute conversation. Lol. Tell him I need him to do this. Bring me home and then we will get those damn bitches. Those damn bitches are Eric's sisters who are holding the trust. Also, please text Lotto or call. Tell him not to text me. Anything about us doing things together ever, like church, skiing trips. Nothing that puts us together. It doesn't look good. We're so close to the end. Let's push through. Have this conversation with Ronnie before he meets with Sky. Then tell him to tell sky at the meeting about this conversation. Hang in there, we're almost home. I love you to the moon. And then she says bullet point. Take vague notes of all of this so you remember before you walk the dog. Then she goes on to talk about like a mortgage company, blah blah blah. And then she goes into this bit where she Says sky is having my girls do the first interviews with Good Morning America. Please tell Chelsea to bring up that Eric hasn't been to church in the 13 years she's known him. And that Eric would brag about how he drank and did pills in high school. Tell Kelsey to say Eric always wanted Corey to go down for him. And then she says this bit's the best. Have Ali talk about how the sisters have always been jealous of me because anything they could do, Corey could do better. Like being a mum, going to college, being a stay at home wife until she built her million dollar company. Having a nice house, car, everything. She had, what they wanted. This comes down to jealousy, money and Eric's partying that they don't want to acknowledge. And sadly, an accidental overdose. Lastly, don't forget to work on the gun receipts. Blah, blah, blah. That's a misfit's cray. Will you also buy me a box of Crest White strips? Open them up. That's like teeth whitening strips. Open them up, put them in an envelope and give them to Sky. I'm sure she won't mind. I'll make sure they can't be found in my cell. My teeth have gone yellow from so much coffee and tea all day. Frowny face. I love you. I love you, I love you. Hang in there. We're getting there slowly. You're the best mum in the whole world. I'm so lucky to have you.

[Nicola]

I'm not.

[Hannah]

This is fucking ridiculous. And it's only going to get worse.

[Nicola]

After this letter was found, Corey's then attorney Skylar Zaro quit.

[Hannah]

Yeah, she's like, bye.

[Nicola]

She claimed that her firm had a conflict of interest with another case, but I don't believe you. It seems pretty obvious. This letter makes it look like she's in on a stitch up. Yeah.

[Hannah]

She's like, sky needs us to find another way that Eric got these drugs. That's what you need to get Ronnie to say and testify, to keep it short, keep it sweet.

[Nicola]

And it's so obviously reads like Corey Richards is trying to cook up a story to explain how else Eric could have died of a fentanyl overdose and you know, picked up some hot tips from the people she's in prison with.

[Hannah]

Not enough.

[Nicola]

She's literally telling her brother and her friends what to say. It doesn't sound like she's just prompting Ronnie's memory. It sounds a lot more like she's trying to get him to memorise something. Something likely untrue to tell the police. The problem with this letter and why it's such a self inflicted and unbelievably costly wound is because everything she's telling Ronnie to say may well be true. But after this letter came out, who would possibly believe that? Who would believe any of the witnesses that the defense called? And who's Lotto? No idea. Another lover perhaps? We don't know.

[Hannah]

And if you think that's wild, well, the defence had to fight crazy with crazy. They tried to claim that this was a fictional story Corey was writing to kill time while she was locked up. After all, she's a published author. Don't you know, it's laughable the idea that this is a fictional story and in this fictional story she's using all of the real names of all of the people that are in her life and outlining a very real legal case that she is facing like that. That's the fictional story she's writing.

[Nicola]

Wouldn't you just wait until you were home free?

[Hannah]

Wouldn't you, Wouldn't you just, just. It's hilarious. And also walk the dog. Everyone's like, what does walk the dog mean? What does walk the dog mean? I think it's like some weird code that the family has. I don't think it's like an actual slang term that anybody else can decipher. I think it means get rid of this. Destroy this letter. Because it says take vague notes before you walk the dog. But I'm like, what's the point of having one little bit that's code? When your code is so easily crackable based on the context of the entire fucking letter and the real names you're using, it's like, you might as well have not bothered. You might as well have just put burn this letter. Because we can all figure out what it fucking means. Corey. It is hilarious. And I think to the jury, when this letter is read out, she comes across like this very audacious woman. If everything else wasn't enough to already convince you of that, who's basically willing to twist the narrative, force her family to lie for her, convince her friends to shill for her. Her friends, by the way, at this point haven't discovered all the horrible things she's done to them and aren't yet convinced that she's killed Eric. They obviously changed her mind because they will testify against her. Chelsea, Ally, et cetera. But she, she's trying to get her friends to shove for her and she's doing it all so brazenly. The number of LOLs in that letter, it's so, so brazen. And she's doing all of this. Just think about it. She's doing all of this. Trying to orchestrate everybody outside while she sat in prison awaiting trial the murder. And also worrying about her teeth being a bit yellow.

[Nicola]

She's gotta dazzle that jewellery.

[Hannah]

Mmm. She literally never smiles.

[Nicola]

The defence also tried to claim that this letter should be thrown out of court because it had been illegally taken from her cell. Corey's new attorney said that the letter had been in an envelope addressed to her then lawyer, Skylar Zaro. So the documents inside were subject to client attorney privilege. Therefore, this letter should have never been read by police. We don't really know exactly what happened here, but when the state showed the video footage of the search to the judge and the defence away from the jury, the defence quickly quietened down about the search being an illegal one. So I'm guessing that the letter wasn't actually in an envelope addressed to her lawyer.

[Hannah]

No, they were found in an LSAP book because Corey Richards. No,

[Nicola]

no. I will walk out that door.

[Hannah]

Corey Richards gonna be a lawyer, baby. Oh, my God. It's too much. It's too much. Because then we have the Google searches. In court, the prosecution showed screenshots of Corey Richards Internet search history which included the following searches. Women, Utah prison. Luxury prisons for the rich. America. Can cops force you to do a lie detector test? Can cops uncover deleted messages? IPhone? Can you delete everything off an old iPhone without having it? Can deleted messages be found on an iPhone? How to permanently delete information on an iPhone remotely? And if someone is poisoned, what does it go down on? The death certificate?

[Nicola]

Ass.

[Hannah]

Kouri had also mass deleted messages with at least that we know of Carmen Lauber.

[Nicola]

With that, on day 13, unlucky for some, the prosecution arrested and that same day, so did the defence.

[Hannah]

Yep, big shock. Two weeks prosecution case we're expecting now. Two weeks defence case, closing arguments jury. The prosecution literally stand up and they're like, we close our case. The defence stand up and they're like, we close our case also. No one could believe it worked for Diddy.

[Nicola]

The defence did not present a case despite the endless hype from them that they would tear the prosecution apart. Everyone was shocked. The judge even had Corey herself confirm to the court that she was happy with this decision and she said that she was. So in the end, the state presented nearly 40 witnesses and the defense zero.

[Hannah]

Though of course they did cross examine all of the state's witnesses and try to poke holes and offer alternatives, theories and explanations wherever they could. It still seems mad because as we all know, at trial, narrative is everything. And basically what they're doing is allowing the prosecution's version of events, like how things transpired, their story, to be the last thing that the jury actually heard. I know there's closing arguments, but they don't present, like an alternative story because then the jury could be like, well, do I believe this or do I believe this? They just sort of drop it. And I think it probably, however, though, having said all that, maybe it was the right decision, because I think, who else can they introduce? They bring Ronnie forward. He's completely tainted by the walk the dog letter. They don't bring any of that forward. And it is shocking that allegedly there's all these text messages between Eric and Ronnie about drugs and about fentanyl. Even if the walk the dog letter has corrupted him, why not present those? They don't present anything, I'm guessing because they don't really fucking exist. So anyway, it went straight to closing

[Nicola]

arguments and the state did a solid job. They walked the jury through everything, even letting a timer run for six minutes to show how long it took Corey Richards to start to even pretend to do CPR on Eric during that 911 call.

[Hannah]

That's really powerful, I thought. The jury just sat there for six minutes and it's like, this is how long. And, yeah, that was good showmanship from them.

[Nicola]

The defence claimed that Corey was being held to an unfair standard for not grieving in the right way. And they said that there was no evidence of how the fentanyl got into Eric's system, and also no evidence of how Corey managed to get her hands on any fentanyl in the first place. And after that, we all sat back and expected that we had a lot more time. Perhaps a week of deliberations, but no such luck. The verdict was back in less than three hours.

[Hannah]

And as usual with Corey Richins, she looks the most affected when something is directly concerning her. As the jury walked back in, she looked like she was going to pass out. And as the verdicts Guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty on all five counts came in, she looked shocked and then she dropped her head to hide her face. Sentencing will now take place on 13th May, 2026, which is actually Eric's birthday would have been the day he turned 44. It's likely that Corey Richins is looking at life in prison and fucking good. And honestly, I wasn't really surprised that she was found guilty for fraud and forgery. It's almost like the defense didn't even try to pretend that she hadn't done that. It's so obvious she did it. I also wasn't actually that surprised by the aggravated murder charge. And just to explain, in case, you know, anyone's interested, it's aggravated because the judge decided on two qualifiers that would make it aggravated. One being that she administered a drug without Eric's knowledge to a fatal dose. And also that she had done it for pecuniary gain, which is like some sort of material gain, which she obviously did. But I'll be honest, I was surprised that the prosecution even included the charge for the Valentine's Day attempted murder. And I was even more surprised that the jury found her guilty of that because there was no evidence at all that Eric had been drugged that day. He didn't go to the hospital, he didn't see a doctor. He wasn't tested. He just got sick after he ate some lunch that she brought him. And then he makes a full recovery. There's no evidence that that's why he was even sick. So I was really surprised they found her guilty on that.

[Nicola]

Me too. That's a big risk. So we'll have to wait and see what happens. Corey's not done, unsurprisingly, not by a long shot. She still faces dozens of criminal financial charges and then civil litigation as well. And of course, there'll be the appeals, but don't really want to hear anything else about her, to be honest. She's exactly where she deserves to be.

[Hannah]

I'm never gonna hear the end of it.

[Nicola]

And all in all, the jury got it right. And as for all of the criticism they faced for the three hour deliberation, the few members of the jury who have done interviews since have very fairly explained how they all got to their conclusion unanimously, even stating that they didn't want to find her guilty, knowing that if they did, those three boys would grow up without a mother or a father. The evidence was just too strong.

[Hannah]

So let's wrap up with a look at Corey's personality and psychology. And like I said earlier in the episode, I know it's almost like, so passe to even call somebody a narc narcissist these days, because everybody's calling everybody that, but I just don't know another word. For Corey Richards, her behavior, her absolute disregard for anyone else or anything else is shocking. She was going to be rich and successful whatever it took. And whatever it took was basically her gambling with other people's money. It's never her money, it's other people's money. And she Feels entitled to it. She felt entitled to everything. Eric had just that comment of like, he wouldn't give me what I wanted. She was obsessed with image. Because in that call where she's yelling at price, not only is she saying, I bought all these houses, I'm worth $11 million. She's saying she bought them in the most expensive neighborhoods. That's why she's listing all the places she owns these houses. And also the accusation she makes of everybody else, because that speaks very much to grandiosity. And then is all the accusations she makes of everybody else. Everything she accuses other people of is exactly what she does. It's like so much projection. And it's also just the way she thinks about the world that she accuses everybody else of thinking that same way. I think Corey is a person who's clearly capable of living with a lot of chaos in her life because all of this is going on. Her life is spiraling, her business is spiraling. Millions in debt, and she's just like, okay, what do I do next? What do I do next? What's the next hurdle I need to overcome? It's just very, very mind boggling how she is just stays on the course of, no, I can fix this one hurdle at a time. She can't see past the next hurdle that's in front of her. I just need to get some more money. I need to take out a payday loan. I need to steal this money from Eric. I need to kill Eric, and then everything will be fine. She can't see the next set of consequences that are coming her way from her behavior. And look, perhaps, perhaps the apple doesn't fall that far from the tree.

[Nicola]

So let's just put this in here just for fun. Lisa Darden, Corey's mother, hasn't been charged with anything, and she has always maintained her daughter's innocence. And maybe she has been unfairly tarred online by the fact that people discovered her former partner, Gertrude Trudi Moore, also died of an overdose 16 years before Eric Richards did. And we're not gonna push that anymore because there isn't any more evidence. And we try not to be in the business of finger pointing if we can possibly help it.

[Hannah]

No, lots of people are talking about it online and people die of overdoses. But I don't like her mum, Lisa Darden, or I do really like her for being involved in this. But like I said, no charges have been brought.

[Nicola]

And perhaps generational trauma is a real problem within this family. I just hope that the three boys who've been left with no dad, no mum, and a lifetime of trauma to to unpack, take after their father's side of the family.

[Hannah]

It's just so horrific. But that's it.

[Nicola]

Corey Richards.

[Hannah]

Few.

[Nicola]

Few.

[Hannah]

It's fucking done. Thank you very much for listening. Yeah, there's a lot of information and it's just one of those cases where they release so much that we had to go through it all. So we hope you learned something. And if you do suspect somebody in your life of doing something dodgy and you are squirreling your money and assets away from them, tell them because get

[Nicola]

a lawyer to do it for you. Much safer.

[Hannah]

Yes. So that's it, guys. We will see you next week for something else. No more Corey Richards. Goodbye.

[Doug]

And Doug, there's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual. Even if it means sitting front row at a comedy show.

[Nicola]

Hey, everyone, check out this guy and his bird. What is this your first date?

[Doug]

Oh, no. We help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual together. We're married. Me to a human, him to a bird.

[Nicola]

Yeah, the bird looks out of your league anyways.

[Doug]

Only pay for what you [e-mail] liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty.

[Investigator]

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[Doug]

And Doug, there's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual, even if it means sitting free front row at a comedy show.

[Nicola]

Hey, everyone, check out this guy and his bird. What is this your first date?

[Doug]

Oh, no. We help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual together. We're married. Me to a human, him to a bird.

[Nicola]

Yeah, the bird looks out of your league anyways.

[Doug]

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