RedHanded | Robert Wone - Forensics, Fetishes and Fluids: Part Two (#425)

Date: November 13, 2025
Hosts: Suruthi & Hannah
Podcast: RedHanded (Wondery)

Episode Overview

Part two of the RedHanded deep-dive into the mysterious death of Robert Wone picks up with a forensic breakdown of Robert’s autopsy and unpacks every contested theory, from sexual conspiracies and drug incapacitation to evidence tampering and the procedural blunders that may have helped the three men in the house—Joe Price, Victor Zaborsky, and Dylan Ward—escape conviction. With their signature mix of irreverence, rigor, and gallows humor, Suruthi and Hannah explore forensics, challenge internet speculation, and debate their own theories as to what really happened that night at 1509 Swan Street.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Autopsy Details & Theories of Incapacitation

Time: 04:27 – 11:57

• Dr. Lois Goslinowski, the medical examiner, described Robert’s stab wounds as “slit-like”—clean, precise, and with no hesitation marks, not a frenzied attack.
• Notably, Robert had zero defensive wounds, and no blood on his hands.
  • Quote: “Even if he'd been asleep, the first stabbing would have woken him up. He would have fought back... but there's nothing.” – Hannah (06:27)
• No signs he was tied down, leading to three scenarios: Robert wanted to be stabbed (the BDSM “sex game gone wrong” theory—deemed implausible by both hosts), he was chemically or physically incapacitated, or he was already dead when stabbed.

2. Debunking the ‘Sex Game’ and Double Life Theories

Time: 07:36 – 12:16

• Police found no evidence Robert led a secret gay or “kinktastic” double life—no related search history, messages, or pornography.
  • Quote: “He went to his room, he showered, he put his mouth guard in and then wrote a couple of emails. The mouthguard is the killer for me.” – Suruthi (11:01)
• Hosts highlight how “just being friends” with gay men has been transformed into motive for an orgy or secret affair by internet speculation.

3. Reconstructing the Night & Motive for Sleepover

Time: 12:15 – 14:27

• Robert’s stay was established (“Kathy reminded him he was going to stay at Joe’s”) for practical reasons: late meetings, a planned breakfast with Joe, and not wanting to wake Kathy (who was recovering from hip surgery).
• Misconceptions persist that the sleepover was “spur of the moment” or a front for sex; hosts clarify the actual chain of events.

4. Controversies Over Cause of Death and Incapacitating Agents

Time: 14:40 – 26:39

• Dr. Goslinowski said partially digested blood meant Robert survived a significant time post-stabbing, but other MEs challenge—it would have required 30-40 minutes at least; aortic injury would have killed him within minutes.
• Tiny amount of petechial hemorrhaging—may suggest suffocation but insufficient evidence (no bruising, no fibers).
• Paralytic theory: police believed a paralytic drug like succinylcholine was used, but toxicology wasn’t run for such agents; drugs like ketamine weren’t tested for, and many have short detection windows.
  • Quote: “But you'd like to think that a doctor would know the difference between internal bleeding and partially digested [blood].” – Hannah (17:23)

5. Needle Marks and the Search for Drugs

Time: 23:35 – 25:03

• Multiple puncture marks were found, some attributed to paramedic efforts, others unexplained; location of some marks (e.g., on his ankle) considered odd but not conclusive.
• No evidence for paralytic found, but limitations in testing and short half-lives of drugs discussed. Theorized that the killer could have obtained paralytics through access to medical supplies, but specifics (e.g., Michael Price’s phlebotomy training) not compelling or evidenced.

6. Cleanup Theory and Police Forensic Errors

Time: 38:16 – 44:18

• Major police blunder: use of Ashley’s Reagent instead of luminol, leading to poor blood detection (can cause both false positives/negatives and destroy evidence).
  • Quote: “I really tried to understand… why on fucking fuck they used Ashley’s reagent, I do not know.” – Suruthi (40:15)
• Despite having the house for three weeks, and multiple detection attempts, police found no blood at all—plus no cleaning products or evidence of a massive cleanup.
• Timeline between Robert’s last email (11:07 PM), 911 call (just before midnight), and ambulance arrival is too tight for orgy, murder, and full cleanup.

7. Sexual Evidence, Theories, and Police Blind-Spots

Time: 47:30 – 61:33

• Police found no evidence that sex toys had Robert’s DNA. Sexual element inferred from semen inside Robert’s body—but it was his own, not from any of the three men.
• Police and prosecutors produced increasingly convoluted explanations, searching for devices or methods by which Robert could have “ejaculated against his will.”
  • Quote: “It does seem to be based on the idea that men can't ejaculate against their will, which... it’s so bizarre.” – Suruthi (58:39)
• Both hosts lambast the investigators’ lack of knowledge about sex and sexual assault.

8. Positioning of the Wounds: The Odd Stabbing Angles

Time: 64:56 – 66:33

• Autopsy described all wounds on a 10 o’clock to 4 o’clock axis; blunt end at 4, sharp at 10—suggests someone stabbed Robert from behind (possibly in bed), not from above as in an intruder scenario.
  • Quote: “If somebody came behind Robert and stabbed him with their arm going across his chest, this is the exact pattern you would expect to see. So this, to me, again... makes it very unlikely that it was an intruder.” – Suruthi (65:11)

9. Knife Confusion: Was the Weapon Planted?

Time: 65:11 – 72:18

• Ste ak knife from kitchen found with Robert; its length didn’t fit wound depth. The “fancy” carving knife from a boxed set in Dylan’s room, matching wound size, was missing.
• Hosts question why anyone would plant a fake knife—what would be the benefit? Why not simply remove (dispose of) the real weapon?
  • Quote: “Why would you bother fucking putting a fake fucking knife there?” – Suruthi (66:55)
• Trial testimony suggests the missing carving knife might have been kept by Dylan’s mother for herself, so not actually “evidence.”

10. Who Did It? Building the Most Plausible Theory

Time: 72:18 – 84:12

• Suruthi leans toward Dylan as the perpetrator, Joseph as chief orchestrator/protector, and Victor as possible weak link—controlled, but useful, in the cover-up.
• Motive: Possible effort by Dylan to impress or surprise Joe by escalating a fantasy too far; possibility of forced masturbation filmed for Joe, leading to loss of control and the decision to kill Robert.
• Timeline theory: Robert is incapacitated (likely via injection), attacked, Joe walks in and is horrified (or possibly complicit), Victor is entangled by being sent to make the 911 call, solidifying the conspiracy.

11. The Legal Case and Ultimate Non-Resolution

Time: 84:12 – End

• Kathy Wone (Robert’s widow) initially believed the men but was later shown evidence by police and withdrew support, eventually filing a civil wrongful death suit that the men settled out of court.
• Obstruction of justice charges filed in 2008—trial saw the exclusion of any sexual evidence or testimony about a sexual assault.
• Defense used a bench trial (no jury), undermining the prosecution’s conspiracy case, and all were acquitted.
  • Quote: “There’s a difference between a moral certainty and an evidentiary certainty.” – Judge’s ruling, paraphrased by hosts (94:16)
• Hosts discuss the influence of the botched police work, faulty forensics, and how the prosecution’s overreach (e.g., fixating on a staged cleanup or knife planting) ultimately helped the defense.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “No gay porn and the mouthguard. I'm sorry, this was not that for Robert.” – Suruthi (11:10)
• “All we know is that Robert had to either be dead... or Robert had to be paralyzed or incapacitated.” – Hannah (25:03)
• “Why would you, as is alleged, wash all the sheets, clean all the cast off, clean all the blood... why? That's what you would expect to see [with the intruder story]. In fact, the lack of that blood only raises more questions.” – Suruthi (42:58)
• “They are just not au fait with anything. And it's like they just go wild. ... It's so baffling to watch this, like, to hear that line, ‘men can't ejaculate against their will.’” – Suruthi (60:24)
• “This, to me... makes it very unlikely that it was an intruder because it kind of makes it look like whoever did it was either in bed with Robert when they did it and they were stabbing him from behind...” – Suruthi (65:11)
• “Why would you bother fucking putting a fake fucking knife there?” – Suruthi (66:55)
• “There’s a difference between a moral certainty and an evidentiary certainty.” – Judge (94:16, paraphrased)
• “Honestly, now, 20 years later, I just can't see what would cause any of them to break. Because they got away with it.” – Suruthi (95:21)

Timestamps: Important Segments

| Time | Topic/Segment | |------------|-----------------------------------------------------------| | 04:27–11:57 | Autopsy analysis & ruling out consensual sex theories | | 12:15–14:27 | Setting the record straight on the sleepover | | 14:40–26:39 | Debates on “how did Robert die?” and the paralytic theory | | 38:16–44:18 | Police forensic errors and the “cleanup” controversy | | 47:30–61:33 | Sexual theories, police missteps, and the semen conundrum | | 64:56–66:33 | Wound placement challenges intruder theory | | 65:11–72:18 | The “planted knife” debate | | 72:18–84:12 | Hosts’ theories: Dylan’s motives and Joe’s authority | | 84:12–94:16 | Legal case collapse, civil suit, and settlement | | 94:16–End | Final theories and why the case may remain unsolved |

Tone & Language Highlights

• Witty and direct, with British irreverence (“I honestly, it's so baffling”, “Why on fucking fuck…”).
• Highly critical of police/investigation—the hosts are open about law enforcement’s limited sexual knowledge, forensic errors, and tunnel vision.
• Empathetic toward the victim and Kathy, and skeptical of wild Reddit-style theories.

Summary for New Listeners

This episode offers a detailed, sometimes darkly humorous, and always methodical dissection of the forensic and circumstantial evidence (or lack thereof) surrounding the 2006 murder of Robert Wone. Suruthi and Hannah systematically debunk sensational “sex game” and home-invader theories, instead pointing to the unexplained absence of blood, odd wound angles, and baffling police/prosecutor missteps. Through logical reconstruction—while tossing out outlandish police and internet speculation—they make a compelling case for an in-house conspiracy that remains, to this day, unpunished and unsolved.

For more evidence, photos and documents, the hosts recommend visiting the Who Murdered Robert Wone? blog curated by neighbors David Greer and Doug Johnson.

End of summary.