Host 1 (2:16)

Let's make. Okay. Other valuable things and sell them or use them for our personal gain.

Host 2 (2:23)

Very good. You're already like three levels above most people.

Host 1 (2:26)

Nice.

Host 2 (2:26)

Because alchemy is much more than just turning something that's not gold into gold.

Host 1 (2:30)

Oh.

Host 2 (2:31)

It's depending on who you are. It's just about transforming things. So if you're Carl Jung, the alchemy of the self is your ability to transform into something else. If you're an old Christian, you're like, it's My ability to turn into a better servant of God.

Host 1 (2:50)

I see. The alchemy of the soul transformation.

Host 2 (2:54)

Okay, but you moron at home. I'm kidding. I love you. Most people when they hear the term alchemy, imagine a hooded figure high up in the tallest tower of an ancient castle with pots bubbling away in a laboratory full of bizarre brass instruments. On the wall behind them are star charts, arcane illustrations and shelves filled with strange, pickled looking organs.

Host 1 (3:17)

That is also what I imagined.

Host 2 (3:21)

And the goal of this hooded figure in your imagination and mine is to create gold and to live forever.

Host 1 (3:29)

Tick, tick.

Host 2 (3:30)

Across thousands of fantasy novels, films and television shows, we have all been introduced to the concept of the alchemist. Part wizard, part mad scientist trying to crack the code to give them everlasting riches and life. But alchemy isn't just a fantasy science. It was a real discipline, studied for thousands of years across almost every major continent. I don't think the Antarcticans got onto it, but they've got other stuff going on. They've got to guard the ice wall.

Host 1 (4:04)

Hey man, aren't there pyramids there?

Host 2 (4:07)

Yes, countless men and women have tried and spoiler, failed to create gold out of not gold and cheat death. But where did all this sorcery, mystery and magic come from? And more to the point, did anyone ever get close? This is the sparkly, spaggly shorthand in which all that glitters isn't gold in its simplest definition.

Host 1 (4:36)

Alchemy involves trying to turn one substance into another in a process otherwise known as transmutation, which I also had to look up. This is a concept that developed around 3000 BC and seems to have evolved in tandem across several regions, namely China, India, Europe and the Middle East. The idea of transmutation seems started shortly after we first started refining metal from ore and working with that metal to create tools now called smelting. Today we understand the practical science. When you melt down lumps of metal ore and add a reducing agent like carbon, the agent bonds with the oxygen within the core and burns it off.

Host 2 (5:20)

I know I can draw a blast furnace from memory. We all had to do it.

Host 1 (5:24)

So your left with a much purer

Host 2 (5:27)

metal at the end and the waste product is called slag.

Host 1 (5:32)

Oh yes.

Host 2 (5:32)

And I remember that much to the

Host 1 (5:34)

amusement of all of us as teenagers.

Host 2 (5:36)

And my very, very, very Christian chemistry teacher is called Mr. Kluter, South African. And he taught us that we could always remember the word because slags are impure. True, true story, true story.

Host 1 (5:53)

You never forgot, did you?

Host 2 (5:54)

I didn't. And now you wonder why I'm like this slug.

Host 1 (5:57)

That was so much fun. And I know I still haven't grown out of it. At the ripe old age of 36, that is still quite amusing. And I still find it funny when I go to the Netherlands and I order a waffle and there's bottles of slag room in the back. Because slag room means cream. Maybe whipped cream, I don't know.

Host 2 (6:16)

So in the now times, and for those of us who did gcse, I didn't even do chemistry. I did double science. The science of smelting seems quite obvious. Nay, simple. But 5,000 years ago, it looked like magic. Adding coal dust, which is carbon, to what looked like a lump of dirt, metal ore, and producing beautiful and precious metals is magical. And ancient cultures needed an explanation because they didn't have a South African chemistry teacher to tell them. They looked elsewhere. And when we can't explain the world around us with science because we don't have it yet, we go to spirituality instead. So quickly, the baffling and wondrous world of metallurgy became linked with rituals and our inner souls. In China, alchemy was heavily linked to Taoism. Indian alchemy was inextricably linked to Hinduism and Buddhism. While in the Middle east and in Europe, alchemy was influenced by ancient Greece and later Islam, and then later still Christianity. Alchemy became an essential part of how magic and mystery got intertwined with what it is at its core, chemistry, which I think is the most interesting thing about it. Like before we had chemistry, alchemy is the precursor to chemistry.

Host 1 (7:44)

Right.

Host 2 (7:45)

And the reason that science and spirituality are so interwoven when it comes to it is because what alchemists were trying to do was understand creation. How does one thing become another thing? And if we can figure that out, we've unlocked the universe. And it really is. It's alchemy that turns Renaissance thinking into what we now recognize as science.

Host 1 (8:14)

So across these many cultures, alchemy focused on many different goals. Chinese alchemists focused on trying to purify metals to build a greater harmony with the earth. In line with their Taoist beliefs, Indian alchemists focused more on physical healing and pioneered many early forms of medicine. But two subjects transcended all alchemy across all cultures, that is, creating gold and capturing immortality. Those two subjects might seem worlds apart today, but pre science, they were often inextricably linked.

Host 2 (8:49)

Since humanity first started having metal at all, gold has always been the gold standard until the Americans got rid of it. Gold is bright and shiny and resilient and it's like nothing else. And we don't have a lot of it. I believe all of the gold we have ever excavated ever in the world can fit into an Olympic swimming pool. We really don't have much.

Host 1 (9:11)

And also, let me just look this up. How much? 11% of the world total gold that we have is held in Indian households.

Host 2 (9:24)

In your shower heads.

Host 1 (9:25)

I know what you lot are like hiding it everywhere. If you don't know what we're talking about, it's because my family once got burgled and they took apart our shower heads looking for gold. Because when the police came, they were like, oh, yeah, loads of Asian families are getting burgled because people are hiding gold in their showerheads. We didn't have any gold in our shower heads. But yes, that is interesting. And yes, the Americans did make a big move to kill off the gold standard, make everybody buy everything in US dollars. But it is back, baby, because China's like, ugh, we don't want the US dollar anymore. We're giving them so much power. Let's switch to gold. So now everyone's like, let's buy gold. So I'm not gonna sit here and tell you to buy gold. But it has never been more expensive. So if you could become an alchemist, now would be the time.

Host 2 (10:07)

It's also why the Rand is getting so much stronger so quickly, because they've got loads of fucking gold in South Africa anyway. Look at me talking economics. It's just because I really felt it this time. Anyway. Gold has, across the centuries, represented divinity in many different ways. 5,000 years ago, gold represented the sun, which is obviously the warm, radiant, magical orb. That means we're all alive, much to my chagrin. And the sun to everyone and everything on Earth is pretty highly regarded. So quickly, people who could purify rock into gold, that is, early alchemists were sacred, even divine, and therefore at the tippity top of their communities. So naturally, alchemists took on a shamanistic role within their community and the tradition continued as society developed. And, you know, they mo like gold was like what they really wanted. They were doing loads of other stuff too. Loads of our mineral medicinal understandings that we have now are all based on their finding of alchemists.

Host 1 (11:10)

And also, I do want to say before anybody tells me, well, what would be the point of alchemy if they could make more gold, then the value of gold would go down. Gold is one of the only substances that we have that the More we find the value doesn't go down like diamonds because the demand outpaces supply. But diamonds are crashing because our generation, because, yeah, because we can grow them. And our generation is like, why would I spend more money on a rock that was dug out of the ground by the bare hands of a child?

Host 2 (11:36)

I've got all this avocado on toast I need to buy. I know.

Host 1 (11:39)

So fuck it, no one gives a fuck. Diamond like real diamonds, quote, unquote. Just. Nah. But gold through the roof. So when ancient Greece got properly up and running, gold became intertwined with their beliefs as well. The likes of Aristotle had started to theorize about what the Earth actually was and how it came to be. They believed that the Earth and everything within it was made up of four elements, Earth, air, fire and water. And they believed by rearranging the quantities or qualities of substances, they could create new ones. Makes sense if you think about it like that. And if you're going to create something new from something old, what are you going to try and make? Gold. It's always bloody gold. Of course it is. And look, their thinking is not a million miles off. If you think about it, like lots of stuff, everything's made of carbon, right? In different compositions, in different ways that it's attached to each other. You know, you have a lump of. And I know I'm being very basic with my explanations, but a lump of coal or a lump of, like, black rock, but then that's crushed under pressure for millions and millions of years, turns into a diamond.

Host 2 (12:49)

Your grandma's hair that you stole while she was sleeping.

Host 1 (12:51)

Exactly. So, yes, like, the way they're thinking about this is not entirely incorrect. It's like you said, it's a bridging.

Host 2 (12:59)

Yes. Yeah.

Host 1 (13:01)

So the ancient Greeks believed that gold, because of its shiny and unblemished nature, was essentially the purest form of matter and that all metal could be gold if it was purified enough.

Host 2 (13:12)

This is very.

Host 1 (13:14)

They're the tiger mums of metal.

Host 2 (13:16)

Yes. But it's a very Aristotelian thought, because Aristotle's whole philosophy of the universe was that if you change the form of something, so if you melt something, it becomes something else. You can't bring it back. So this, like, endless distilling, leaving you with the purest thing in the world, which is gold, is because that is based on Aristotle's teachings, which we now understand to be untrue. But that's what they're all running with, is that once something is melted off, it vanishes.

Host 1 (13:50)

Chime is changing the way people bank it's not just another banking app. Chime unlocks fee free and smarter banking that's built for for you, not the 1%. Forget overdraft fees, minimum balance fees and monthly fees. Chime turns everyday spending into real rewards and Progress. Features like MyPay give you access to up to $500 of your paycheck anytime and you can even get paid up to two days early. Earn up to 3% APY on your savings, seven times higher than a traditional bank. And the Chime card is the newest way to unlock safer credit building and cash back all on one card with no annual fees, no interest and no strings attached. My younger self would really have benefited from something like this. Chime is not just smarter banking. It is the most rewarding way to bank. Join the millions who are already banking fee free today. It just takes a few minutes to sign up. Head to chime.comredhanded that's chime.com redhanded Chime

Ad Voice (14:59)

is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services A secured Chime, Visa credit card and MyPay line of credit provided by the Bancor Bank NA or Stride Bank NA. MyPay eligibility requirements apply and credit limit ranges $20 to $500. Optional services and products may have fees or charges. See chime.com feesinfo advertised annual percentage yield with Chime+status only. Otherwise 1.00% APY applies. No min balance required. Chime card on time Payment history may have a positive impact on your credit score. Results may vary. See chime.com for details and applicable terms.

Host 2 (15:19)

Starting something new can be exciting, but also terrifying. When we first started red handed, we had no idea if anyone would even want to listen to two strangers bang on about true crime. But here we are nearly a decade later and we were completely right to believe in ourselves and launch the podcast you're listening to right now. Despite the crippling fear, it also helps when you have a partner like Shopify on your side. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses all around the world and 10% of all e commerce in the US from household names like Gymshark and Mattel to those just getting started want people to learn about your brand. Shopify creates email and social media campaigns wherever your customers are scrolling or strolling. It's like you've got a whole marketing team behind you, even if it's just you and your laptop. And if you get stuck, Shopify's always around to share advice with their award winning 247 customer support. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at shopify.comredhanded Go to shopify.comredhanded that's shopify.comredhanded

Host 1 (16:22)

so the concept developed that you could create gold not just from gold ore, but from other substances too. And the idea of alchemy as we know it today was born basically to make gold from coal or lead or just plain old rock. But it could be done. And this concept was called chrysopia.

Host 2 (16:43)

Obviously, chrysopia could have died with ancient Greece, but we already know what starts in Greece, like democracy and nude beaches, tends to spread around. During the Hellenistic period, just after the huge conquest of Alexander the Great, Greek concepts and ideas rapidly spread throughout Europe and the rest of the world. And this period was kind of a great awakening. Cultures began to realize that their contemporaries from different continents had ideas that were sometimes the same and sometimes far vastly different to the ones that they already had. And they all started talking to each other. And as a result, knowledge in the form of texts and scriptures started to be coveted and hoarded, most notably in Alexandria and its enormous, and because it burned down, almost mythical library. So practical metallurgy and practical advice on how to purify metal became part of this huge cultural melting pot as Europe and Asia became one. Texts from around the world that involved purifying metal were compiled and they were hoarded. And they featured central texts by early alchemists like Agatha Demon and this lady called Mary the Jewess. Right. Who she's lost to time, apart from the fact that we know that she was one of the very first alchemists and she taught a very famous alchemist after her, who we have a bit more of his work. But one of the things she passed down to him was the idea of heating water slowly in a bath to keep a constant level of reaction going. And that's why we call it a bain Marie.

Host 1 (18:14)

Oh, that's interesting.

Host 2 (18:16)

Isn't that cool?

Host 1 (18:17)

That is cool. So around this time, however, alchemy and criasiopoeia became less practical and more theoretical. And this is for a very good reason, namely because you cannot create gold

Host 2 (18:31)

and people were thinking about God a lot more, you know.

Host 1 (18:34)

Yeah. At least not without a massive super collider and loads and loads of money. But more on that later. Despite all their best efforts over centuries, it finally became obvious that what they were doing just wasn't working. But because Aristotle's theory of matter was the going understanding of the universe, at the time, scholars still fully believed that cryasopoeia could be done, they just had to hit the books until they cracked it. They collected hundreds, if not thousands of texts from the likes of Mary the Jewess that they believed held the key to chrysopia. Now there is actually a lot of debate about the texts that these scholars were studying and whether their original writers were even suggesting that chrysopia was possible. Some historians believe that the texts were just basic metallurgy instructions that over time had been rewritten and misunderstood to be some kind of secret recipe for gold. Others believe that these instructions might have just been more like allegories using gold making as a metaphor for purifying the soul. Which you'd be fucking pissed off, wouldn't you?

Host 2 (19:44)

But just like it can be all of those things, it's this like rationalization of it that is, it's trying to put everything we know now retroactively into the writings of the time. Like they didn't know half of this shit. Like it's a. There's no way that someone in ancient Greece could have possibly known that gold isn't your soul. You know, it's all the same stuff anyway. Over the next several hundred years, loads of stuff happens, including ancient Greece. Not happening anymore. The rise and fall of Rome and alchemy became a scholarly tradition that was equal parts chemistry and philosophy. And whenever experiments didn't produce real gold, the original texts were redacted, rewritten and studied again, each time with more influence from modern philosophical beliefs. Over time, what had started as basic instructions of how to smelt gold ore became pseudo practical semi religious texts which discussed why it had been possible to produce gold once and now we can't do it anymore. The reasons ranged from not being able to find the right reducing agent to the impure thoughts of those naughty alchemists.

Host 1 (20:51)

Oh dear. As antiquity came to an end and Rome and Greece fell, alchemy found its way to the Middle East. Middle Eastern alchemy, sometimes known as Islamic alchemy, was a golden age for protoscience. Between 700 and 1200 AD, Middle Eastern alchemists took the subject seriously as a practical science, and in the process they developed early scientific methods that we still use today. During this time, alchemists acted less as gold hungry philosophers and more as chemists. They created early laboratories, tried to focus on real replicable results, and pioneered humanity's understanding of metalwork and dyes, as well as making huge leaps forward in medicine. Still, it couldn't totally shake the Midas like mesmeric pull of gold. And it was within this more practically focused and data driven branch of alchemy that the idea of the Philosopher's Stone was born.

Host 2 (21:54)

As we told you, and as you already know, purifying metals requires a reducing agent. You can't just stare at them until they do something. But Islamic alchemists still also believed that all metal was just an impure version of gold waiting to be purified. And the hunt was still on for an agent that could purify basic metals like iron, copper and lead into gold. And they called this theoretical substance the Philosopher's Stone. As far as we know, there is not an agent on earth that can help you to reduce iron, copper or lead into gold. But they didn't know that the endless and fruitless search for this impossible reducing agent is what drove many of the huge leaps forward that we told you about earlier. And it turned into the mystical hunt for the Philosopher's Stone as we know it today.

Host 1 (22:54)

Chime is changing the way people bank it's not just another banking app. Chime unlocks fee free and smarter banking that's built to for you. Not the 1%. Forget overdraft fees, minimum balance fees and monthly fees. Chime turns everyday spending into real rewards and Progress. Features like MyPay give you access to up to $500 of your paycheck anytime and you can even get paid up to two days early. Earn up to 3% APY on your savings, seven times higher than a traditional bank. And the Chime card is the newest way to unlock safer credit building and cash back all on one card with no annual fees, no interest and no strings attached. My younger self would really have benefited from something like this. Chime is not just smarter banking. It is the most rewarding way to bank join the millions who are already banking fee free today. It just takes a few minutes to sign up. Head to chime.comredhanded that's chime.com redhanded Chime

Ad Voice (24:03)

is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services A secured Chime Visa credit card and MyPay line of credit provided by the Bancor Bank NA or Stride Bank NA. MyPay eligibility requirements apply and credit limit ranges $20 to $500. Optional services and products may have fees or charges. See chime.com feesinfo advertised annual percentage yield with Chime+status only. Otherwise 1.00% APY applies. No min balance required. Chime Card on time payment history may have a positive impact on your credit score. Results may vary. See chime.com for details and applicable terms.

Host 2 (24:23)

Starting Something new can be exciting, but also terrifying. When we first started red handed, we had no idea if anyone would even want to listen to two strangers bang on about true crime. But here we are nearly a decade later, and we were completely right to believe in ourselves and launch the podcast you're listening to right now. Despite the crippling fear, it also helps when you have a partner like Shopify on your side. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses all around the world and 10% of all e commerce in the US from household names like Gymshark and Mattel to those just getting started. Want people to learn about your brand? Shopify creates email and social media campaigns wherever your customers are scrolling or strolling. It's like you've got a whole marketing team behind you, even if it's just you and your laptop. And if you get stuck, Shopify's always around to share advice with their award winning 24. 7 customer support. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at shopify.comredhanded Go to shopify.comredhanded that's shopify.comredhanded

Host 1 (25:25)

Eventually, Islamic texts on alchemy and the hunt for this mystical agent made their way to Europe. And this is where our idea of alchemy today was born. Christian scholars became fascinated with the concept of alchemy, especially chrysopia, as they believed the purification of metals into gold represented the purification of the soul under the light of God.

Host 2 (25:49)

Also, they really love like gold leafing stuff in churches. Yeah, big fan.

Host 1 (25:55)

My favorite two things as a Christian alchemist, purifying the soul, covering everything in gold.

Host 2 (26:00)

There's this one guy, there's an essay that's called Alchemy for the Antichrist or something like that. And there's one sort of Francis of Assisi type character who dedicates his life to alchemy to feed the poor, maybe. Was it

Host 1 (26:21)

because then you could just ask, you know, try and turn like wood into loaves of bread anyway, delicious, chewy gold. So it was at this time that the philosopher's stone turned from just a metal working ingredient into something that almost represented the power of God itself. Some believed that it could cure any illness if consumed. Others thought that maybe it could cure death altogether. Quickly, alchemy became secretive and shrouded in mystery. If chrysopia was truly a way to purify the soul and live forever, then that information couldn't just be given out to anyone.

Host 2 (27:02)

And that's kind of how alchemy turned into the secretive and witch adjacent practice that we sort of associate it with today. But I will add, I've been waiting to pounce with this one. My favorite alchemist is old apple head, Isaac Newton.

Host 1 (27:20)

Oh, yes.

Host 2 (27:22)

And I'm going to explain why, and it will make sense why I brought it in at this point. So Isaac Newton, famously, very, very weird guy, almost certainly never had sex. He would write letters to God all the time, being like, I am so sorry. I made pies on a Sunday night and I can't stop thinking about it. And he flew into these rages. He was obsessed with people stealing his work. So a lot of the work that he did was very secretive because he was convinced that someone would steal it from him, then take all the credit. Anyway, I believe in 1936, a roll of handwritten manuscripts from Isaac Newton, who was kicking about in the 1600s, so it's old as shit, just turned up at Sotheby's, and this bloke bought them for, like, nine grand, like, nothing. Handwritten Isaac Newton manuscripts. And it's all alchemy. It's all him trying to turn things into other things. And I believe the University of Cambridge owned all of his stuff after he died. And they found it so embarrassing that they just rolled it up and hid it. And then Sotheby's found it. And that's what this thing is of, like, oh, like, it's secretive. It's not real science. That's where it comes from is this, like, rationalization of, like, there's proper science and there's pseudoscience, and they just, like, whisked it away. But Isaac Newton was obsessed with alchemy, and it makes so much sense considering his, like, idol was Boyle, who proved that you can, unlike the opposite of what Aristotle believed, you can turn something into something else and you can bring it back. Like, the molecular structure of something does not change because its state changes. He proved that. So Isaac Newton's whole life was informed by that knowledge. And he did the same thing with light. He proved that you can have a rainbow and then turn it into another color and bring it back. And that's exactly what happens in the Prestige. It's not enough to make something disappear. You have to bring it back. It's magic. Like it is. If you don't understand the science behind it, like the fractals of light or the molecules and how they function, it's magical. And that brings me to my favorite quote about Isaac Newton. He was not the first of the scientists. He was the last of the magicians.

Host 1 (29:34)

Well, there you go.

Host 2 (29:36)

I'm moist.

Host 1 (29:37)

Like, I just.

Host 2 (29:37)

I fuck. I love it. I love it so much. Like, it's this, like, fascination of, like. And to be able to prove that, like, the way we understand the world is completely wrong, that would drive me fucking bonkers as well. I'd be baking all sorts of pies on Sunday nights. But it's because of this secrecy and also because he was a weird guy and his family were quite embarrassed after he died that all of this stuff, which is literally the precursor to chemistry, they just spelled it with a Y, was just hidden for years. Hundreds of years.

Host 1 (30:11)

Well, that was very interesting. Thank you for sharing that.

Host 2 (30:14)

You're so welcome.

Host 1 (30:15)

I don't want to bring the tone down, but I was at a. An engagement party this weekend, and we were talking about how important, like, a person's legacy is. Like, what do you want to be known for? And if you're not going to be known for anything, would you rather be known for something that's kind of shit? My friend was saying that it's very gross, but he was saying that he once pulled a hair out of his nose that he looked up. He was like, that's very long. He measured it, and then he looked up the record for the longest nose hair ever recorded. And he was like, this is so much longer than that. And I was like, why didn't you inform the people? Why didn't you call the Guinness Book

Host 2 (30:56)

of World Records immediately?

Host 1 (30:58)

That's exactly what I told him. And he was like, because why would I want that to be my legacy? And I was like, what we realized here is that that's definitely not the longest notes here. That was ever. But it's just the longest recorded nose hair. Because everyone else was thinking about their legacy, like you, and not calling in when they had a ginormous nose hair. And I said, but why wouldn't you call in? It doesn't mean your life is over. You can continue to seek out a better legacy. But, like, at least you've got a backup legacy. But apparently you didn't even want that as backup legacy. Maybe it's like the Isaac Newton Alchemist. The longest.

Host 2 (31:29)

The last of the nose hairs.

Host 1 (31:31)

The longest nose hair record. I don't know. Anyway, that's. I don't know.

Host 2 (31:40)

I. I want something really weird. Really weird.

Host 1 (31:44)

We'll have a think. I'll think about it. We'll have a think. Anyway, back to alchemy. So many myths and legends suggested that gold, philosopher's stones, and even elixirs of life had been created. But those are just folk stories, right?

Host 2 (32:02)

Well, ask the last of the magicians.

Host 1 (32:04)

Not all of them. Over time, some texts have been deciphered and have produced replicable results. For instance, the phrase the green lion devours the sun is a term that often crops up in alchemical texts. Long believed to be weird medieval hockum historians now believe that the green line refers to iron sulphate, which is green in colour. When iron sulphate is distilled with salt, it becomes aqua rega, a highly corrosive acid mix that can dissolve gold, AKA the sun. Other texts talk of producing a solar metal from copper using multiple smelting sessions and zinc rich reducing agents. If done correctly, this process can produce brass. Brass is a hard wearing metal that looks a lot like gold, giving it high value in medieval times.

Host 2 (33:01)

As long as you don't wear it for too long. But unfortunately you're the green lion.

Host 1 (33:04)

Yeah, exactly.

Host 2 (33:05)

Bang.

Host 1 (33:07)

But unfortunately, that's about as close as they came to the philosopher's stone.

Host 2 (33:11)

So, apart from inventing chemistry, what have the alchemists given us today? Loads. As our understanding of chemistry, informed by alchemy, took over the world and the world evolved. The spirituality of alchemy, I'm not gonna say was completely left behind because it is picked up by Carl Jung, uses it a lot in the way he describes the brain and like how you can evolve as a person. So I don't think the spiritual and mental side of it disappeared. I think it just sort of was extracted from the actual changing of a item into something else.

Host 1 (33:46)

But what about Cryosopia? We teased earlier in this episode that creating or transmuting another element into gold might be possible. And in 1941 they actually bloody did. Was then that a small collection of mercury atoms were bombarded with neutrons in a particle accelerator and they turned into actual real gold. The gold was both too small in quantity and too radioactive to be of any practical use. But still, that's pretty fucking cool.

Host 2 (34:19)

That is cool. And big gold are like few.

Host 1 (34:23)

And over the past two decades, scientists at CERN have had a few successful runs at using their famous Large Hadron Collider to synthesize gold. Do you remember when they made that? And everybody thought the world was going to end when they turned it on?

Host 2 (34:37)

How do we know it didn't? Things have gone pretty badly since then, if I remember correctly.

Host 1 (34:41)

Exactly. And they managed to do this using the element bismuth. Initially, they only ever produced a few single gold atoms, but over time they dialed up the process, eventually producing around 260 billion gold nuclei. That's about 90 picograms of gold weighing roughly the same as a single yeast cell. The cost of creating this gold, however, is roughly a trillion times the market value and therefore completely useless.

Host 2 (35:08)

I don't care. We did it. Just took the God machine to make it happen which arguably is what they were trying to tell us the whole time circle so all of those hours spent by reclusive scholars over thousands of years, it's not actually completely worthless. We've got loads out of the study of alchemy, including my half gcse. We never did quite crack the philosopher's stone but leaps forward in loads of different arenas Our understanding of metals, elements, atoms, light, why salt makes your legs go down in the bath. It's all because of alchemy. Turning one thing into another thing for profit.

Host 1 (35:55)

Delicious. Thank you.

Host 2 (35:58)

You're welcome.

Host 1 (35:59)

And you are also welcome, dear listener. We hope you enjoyed that and we will see you next time for another episode of Shorthand. Goodbye.

Host 2 (36:06)

Goodby. It.