ShortHand: Area 51

Summary

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RedHanded – ShortHand: Area 51

Date: February 27, 2026
Hosts: Saroo & Sam

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Overview

In this ShortHand episode, the RedHanded team dives into the enduring legend, myths, and conspiracies of Area 51. They trace how this secretive military base in Nevada became the global epicenter for alien speculation, driven by figures like Bob Lazar, pop culture references, and a persistent distrust between the public and government. With their signature wit and banter, they navigate through the history of UFO sightings, the origins of area names, the Roswell incident, viral modern events like “Storm Area 51,” and the mundane but fascinating reality behind the base.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Origins of Alien Sightings and "Flying Saucers"

• Historic Phenomena:
  • Humans have always been fascinated by strange things in the sky.
  • The 1561 Nuremberg celestial event is described as “the most famous one” (02:21), now often attributed to a “sun dog” – a natural optical illusion created by ice refractions around the sun.
    • Sam: “Modern killjoys claim what was actually happening... was a phenomenon known as a sun dog, which is also called a false sun.” (03:40)
• Birth of the ‘Flying Saucer’:
  • In 1878, John Martin described a “dark circular object flying at a wonderful speed”—possibly the first appearance of the word “saucer” (04:44).
  • The interchangeable use of “flying disc” and “flying saucer” until the 1950s, with “flying saucer” ultimately sticking due to repeated press usage.

Area 51 – History and Location

• Naming and Secrecy:
  • The name “Area 51” stems from old Atomic Energy Commission maps of the Nevada site—it’s simply the 51st area (07:05).
  • Area 51 holds many alternative names including Paradise Ranch, Watertown, Dreamland, and Red Square—some meant to “attract workers,” others clear smokescreens (07:33).
• Why Area 51 and Aliens?:
  • The link comes from Bob Lazar, who in 1989 claimed on TV that the US government was reverse-engineering alien technology at the Area 51-adjacent S-4 base (08:48).

Bob Lazar and Conspiratorial Catalysts

• Lazar’s Role:
  • Saroo: “For some, Bob is a hoaxer. For some, he’s a scientist. And for others, he’s an international security risk.” (08:43)
  • Notable for:
    • Claiming to see anti-gravity devices, “antimatter reactors,” and biometric bone scanners.
    • Sam: “He claimed to have seen a material that would propel your hand away from it like a magnet, but it’s not a metal...” (10:34)
  • Lazar’s credentials (Caltech, MIT, Los Alamos) have never been verified; possible evidence includes a phone book listing but no academic records (13:43–14:34).
  • Sam: “That is my problem... also the way he talks about it when he is questioned. Now he’s like, I don’t understand why everyone gets so caught up on those details. And I’m like, because it underpins your whole story, Bob.” (14:46)
  • His story, whether truthful or a hoax, cemented Area 51’s pop culture connection to aliens permanently.

The Roswell Incident & the Anatomy of a Conspiracy

• Quick Recap:

  • In 1947, rancher Mac Brazel found strange, ultra-light metal debris with ‘hieroglyphics’ after an explosion (20:32–21:39).
  • The US Air Force claimed it was a “weather balloon”—a statement often cited in later UFO conspiracy lore.
  • Some speculate that alien bodies from Roswell went to Area 51, “even though transporting alien remains almost 2,000 miles does seem... unlikely” (19:07).

• Eyewitness Accounts & Pop Culture:

  • Claims by authors Schmidt and Randall suggest bodies were found at Roswell—about four feet tall, large heads, classic “grey alien” look (22:19–24:11).
  • Saroo observes: “Again, it feels like somebody somewhere started that little gray man thing, and then we all... replicate it time and time again.” (24:21)

• Debunking:

  • Pentagon revealed in 1994 that the debris was actually from Project Mogul—high-altitude spy balloons to monitor Soviet nuclear tests (25:00).
  • Sam: “So the story that the US Military are now telling about Roswell is the debris... was the remains of a 700 foot string of neoprene balloons, trackers and sonic equipment...” (25:11)

Area 51 in the Internet Age: ‘Storm Area 51’

• Viral Movement:
  • In 2019, Joe Rogan’s interview with Bob Lazar inspired the viral “Storm Area 51, they can’t stop all of us” Facebook event (26:48), led by college student Matty Roberts.
  • Saroo: “Again, it is just very telling of the fact that there is such a level of distrust between the public and the government...” (27:49)
  • Event drew thousands to Nevada, most just partied, bought alien-themed beer, and “memelords” dressed up. Serious UFOlogists attended their own events elsewhere (29:23).

What is Actually at Area 51?

• Real History:

  • Conceived during the Cold War for secret reconnaissance development; U2 spy planes and the more advanced SR-71 Blackbird were both tested there (32:10–33:09).
  • Routine testing of advanced surveillance aircraft, drones, and bombers explained many unexplained lights and objects seen by civilians over decades.
  • Nuclear weapons testing (Operation Plumbbob) also took place, leading to accidents like the dispersal of radioactive material—fueling more wild speculation (34:17).

• Intentional Smokescreen?:

  • Host Sam underscores that the government had no reason to challenge UFO rumors—better alien myths than Soviet spies or illegal nuclear tests being revealed (34:17).
  • Notably, President Obama was the first to officially acknowledge Area 51 by name publicly (35:43).

The Big Questions: Aliens, Secrecy, and Belief

• Are There Aliens?

  • Both hosts agree that extraterrestrial life is overwhelmingly likely, echoing Arthur C. Clarke’s famous quote: “Either we are completely alone in the universe or we’re not. And both of those thoughts are completely terrifying.” (36:03)
  • Saroo: “It’s not even believe—it’s statistically impossible... that we are the only creatures in the entire universe.” (36:15)
  • The possibility of advanced life reaching Earth—let alone being at Area 51—remains highly doubtful to both.

• Area 51’s Fascination Persists:

  • The secrecy continues to invite speculation.
  • Sam: “It is entirely possible, if not probable, that every major advancement in American espionage had happened inside that base. Which is fascinating.” (36:55)
  • Both hosts find the history of skunk-works military tech just as compelling as aliens.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Sun Dogs and Medieval UFOs:

• Sam: “If I was in 1560, whatever, and I saw one of those [sun dogs], I'd be like, beam me up, Scotty. This is fucking nuts.” (04:39)

On the 'Flying Saucer' Moniker:

• Saroo: “If you just keep saying flying saucer, flying saucer, it doesn't sound like we should say it.” (06:31)
• Sam: “We just decided on flying saucer for no particular reason.” (06:25)

On Bob Lazar’s Claims:

• Saroo: “He kind of looks a bit like Stephen King.” (09:00)
• Sam: “Stephen King did so much coke that I would not be surprised if Bob Lazar actually wrote all of Stephen King’s novels.” (09:28)
• Sam: “He claimed to have seen a material that would propel your hand away from it like a magnet, but it’s not a metal...” (10:34)

On the Ever-Present Distrust:

• Saroo: “There is such a level of distrust between the public and the government, which I understand… I understand that people are like, ‘fuck them, they can't stop all of us. Let's just go find out what the fuck is going on.’” (27:49)

On the Possibility of Aliens at Area 51:

• Saroo: “I'd have moved them by now if I was the government. I wouldn't keep them there.” (36:51)

On the Greater Mystery of Espionage:

• Sam: “It is entirely possible, if not probable, that every major advancement in American espionage had happened inside that base.” (36:55)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Intro & Early UFO Sightings: 02:18–04:44
• Flying Saucer Etymology: 04:44–07:01
• Area 51 Naming & Geography: 07:01–08:14
• Bob Lazar Story: 08:14–15:00
• Bob Lazar Pop Culture Impact: 17:59–18:51
• Roswell Incident & Myths: 19:07–25:11
• Project Mogul Debunking: 25:11–26:48
• 'Storm Area 51' Viral Event: 26:48–30:14
• Real Area 51 (Planes & Nukes): 32:10–34:17
• On Smokescreens & Declassification: 34:17–35:43
• Is There Life Out There? & Wrap Up: 35:43–37:41

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Final Thoughts & Teasers

• The RedHanded duo leave the door open for future episodes on cosmic mysteries:
  • Saroo: “Maybe we can do something on the Fermi paradox, or maybe we can do something on ancient aliens building all of the monuments. I don't know. We'll come back to it.” (37:14)

End note: Area 51’s allure lies as much in government secrecy and Cold War tech as in dreams of first contact. For the RedHanded team—and likely their listeners—it’s the questions, not the answers, that are most compelling.

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Transcript

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Hello, hello.

[Sam]

And hello to those listening from space. Because I know they're listening. They're watching and listening.

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I'm far away.

[Saroo]

And they're like, is that what we're going to discover today?

[Sam]

Yeah. Oh no, you guys are fucking up. We have no interest in coming down there because you're going to destroy yourselves. Well, evidently us simple Humans have long been obsessed with the skies above us, and sometimes we see things up there that we just can't explain. In particular, we tend to see flying disks soaring above us. They've been recorded since the Middle Ages. The most famous one happened in 1561, and it's now described as a celestial phenomenon over Nuremberg that appeared in the middle of the day. And if you look up illustrations of it, because obviously there were no photographs, because it's the 1500s, it basically looks like a big circle with a face and it's surrounded by flutes and crosses.

[Saroo]

Is that not the sun?

[Sam]

No.

[Saroo]

Oh, right.

[Sam]

No, it is separate to the sun. And yes, it's very famous. It just happened in the middle of the day and everyone in Nuremberg was like, the fuck is that?

[Saroo]

So I'm looking at it now. It really looks like the sun. Am I looking at the right thing?

[Sam]

Yes. Yes.

[Saroo]

So they're like, that's not the sun.

[Sam]

Yeah.

[Saroo]

That's a celestial object.

[Sam]

Yeah.

[Saroo]

Okay. They could have made it look different to the sun.

[Sam]

It's the 1500s. Give them a break. That's probably an embroidery.

[Saroo]

It really looks like the fucking sun.

[Sam]

I've seen it.

[Saroo]

Okay, moving on.

[Sam]

Anyway, modern killjoys claim that what was actually happening over Nuremberg that day was a phenomenon known as a sun dog, which is also called a false sun. And I've put a picture of one in the script for Saruti Barda that happened in Dakota not very long ago.

[Saroo]

What? Oh.

[Sam]

So, right, so the sun is in the middle.

[Saroo]

Right.

[Sam]

And there are two suns either side that create this massive circle.

[Saroo]

Right. Okay. I did. I was looking at that and I was like, it kind of just looks like you've taken a picture with like a fish eye.

[Sam]

Yes.

[Saroo]

Of three lights. Mm. Okay.

[Sam]

But it's in the sky and it's massive. Got it. So apparently a sun dog is an optical illusion that creates two bright spots either side of the real sun. And that's caused by ice refractions and a 20 degree angle or something. So it's like a rainbow optical illusion. But they do. And apparently they happen a lot more than we think. But we can't see them all the time. That one is just a very bright one.

[Saroo]

Oh, yeah.

[Sam]

Wow.

[Saroo]

Shit. I just googled sun dog. Yeah. I mean, I'd be weirded out if I saw that.

[Sam]

Yeah. If I was in 1560, whatever, and I saw one of those, I'd be like, beam me up, Scotty. This is fucking nuts.

[Saroo]

Let me have a look at again. Look again at this. Now I've seen. All right, maybe. Okay, okay. So anyway, if we bounce forward many hundreds of years post the invention of the printing press, on 25th January, 1878, a farmer called John Martin reported to a local newspaper that he had seen a dark circular object flying at a wonderful speed in the sky above him.

[Sam]

Wonderful speed is a direct quote.

[Saroo]

Some people say that this is the first time that the word saucer was used when describing unexplained celestial objects. Another time that phrase was used was in 1930 when a meteor that fell over Texas and Oklahoma was described as a clay pigeon shooting target, which were referred to as flying saucers at the time.

[Sam]

And that is what they look like.

[Saroo]

They do look like flying saucers. So then we have the most famous one, Kenneth Arnold. In 1947, he said that he saw a saucer, a disc or a pie plate shoot across the sky. He never specifically said flying saucer, but you know, potato, pot, pie plate.

[Sam]

Yeah, like, people are really picky about it. But he never actually said flying. He just said saucer. And like, come on, Greg.

[Saroo]

Like, he said pie plate, saucer. I mean, a pie plate is just a big saucer. Until the 50s, the terms flying saucer and flying disc were interchangeably used in the press. And then somehow we decided to get rid of the word flying disc.

[Sam]

Yeah, we just decided on flying saucer for no particular reason.

[Saroo]

Yeah, it is.

[Sam]

It could just have easily been flying pipeline.

[Saroo]

I mean, exactly. I think it's like one of those things. If you just keep saying flying saucer. Flying saucer, flying saucer. It doesn't sound like we should say it. Maybe we should say flying pie plate. That is more historically accurate.

[Sam]

So anyways, these days when we say aliens, you say Paul, the film.

[Saroo]

That's a great film.

[Sam]

It is a fucking great film. Okay, but seriously, if we said aliens, you would probably say Area 51. But why has this military base in the middle of the desert become synonymous with Martians?

[Saroo]

Because they're lying to us.

[Sam]

So just in case you care, Area 51 is called Area 51 because of the Atomic Energy Commission and old maps of the Nevada test site. So crucially, where they were testing all types of atomic bombs was the Nevada desert, which I have heard is why Nevada is called the City of Lights, because people would go there to watch the explosions. I haven't been able to corroborate that. So if I'm wrong, I'm sorry.

[Saroo]

People definitely used to go watch it. But that makes sense.

[Sam]

Anyway, so they were testing all sorts of bombs in and around Area 51. And then they started to test spy planes, which is a spoiler. Anyway, the area around the now famous Groom Lake, which is in the Nevada test site and desert, was simply the 51st area of the base. And that is why it's called Area 51. Very boring. And the area is 120 miles northwest of Sin City, and it hides at the end of an unmarked dirt road. It has gone by many names. Paradise Ranch to attract workers. Watertown, Dreamland, red square, Detachment 3. The list goes on and on.

[Saroo]

Who are they trying to attract by calling it Red Square?

[Sam]

Secret commies, probably. And then they would be like, blow them up with an atomic bomb.

[Saroo]

Watertown in the middle of the desert. Or Whitwood's. It's like Iceland. Iceland, Greenland. Yeah, sure. So the real beginning of the alien association with Area 51 is down to one man whose name is Bob Lazar. Now, for some, Bob is a hoaxer. For some, he's a scientist. And for others, he's an international security risk.

[Sam]

I don't know what I feel about Bob Lazar, man.

[Saroo]

I want to have a little look. Obviously, I've heard the name Bob Lazar many a time, But I don't think I actually have a picture in my mind of what he looks like.

[Sam]

In your mind's eye.

[Saroo]

Oh, well, there you go. Bob Lazar. He kind of looks a bit like Stephen King.

[Sam]

You know what? Yes, he does.

[Saroo]

Yes.

[Sam]

Well done.

[Saroo]

Maybe we're onto something. I don't know what. This mild kind of look that he has of looking like Stephen King. Maybe it's a conspiracy. But yes, Bob Lazar, yes. Hoaxer, scientist, international security risk, and also maybe the real author of it.

[Sam]

I don't know, to be honest. Stephen King did so much coke that I would not be surprised if Bob

[Saroo]

Lazar actually wrote all of Stephen King's novels.

[Sam]

Yeah, Stephen King doesn't remember writing Cujo because he was so high. Maybe it was Bob Lazar the whole time.

[Saroo]

So Bob appeared on a local news station in 1989, backlit, and under the fake name Dennis, he told reporter George Knapp that he had been working near Area 51. And he's very particular about that fact.

[Sam]

He's like, I wasn't in area 51. I was in area. Different number, different name, like, three sections over. But I definitely saw some stuff.

[Saroo]

But I was near enough that I could see some flying pie dishes, which

[Sam]

is either a double bluff, because you're like, why would you not just. If you're lying, why would you not just say that you were in Area 51. But maybe he knows that because he's

[Saroo]

a great storyteller, because he's stupid. He knows you gotta make it believable. Bob Lazar then told the cameras that at the base, the government were reverse engineering alien technology. Yeah.

[Sam]

So he's like, they've got them. They've got these ships, and they're trying to figure out how they work.

[Saroo]

Sure. He claimed to have seen a material that would propel your hand away from

[Sam]

it like a magnet, but it's not a metal, so he's saying that it would push you. So he's thinking, you know, if that technology exists, which it clearly does, because I've seen it, that means you can put a force field around a tank, potentially even a whole city. And that could revolutionize the economy. And it's a secret nobody knows about.

[Saroo]

Yeah. You can make hovercrafts, which would be cool. And he also said he had seen what he called antimatter reactors.

[Sam]

So he says that's the thing that we haven't figured out, is that, like, as soon as we crack how to make an antimatter reactor, we will be able to make all of these things that aliens can make, but we don't know how to do it.

[Saroo]

Is that what they're trying to do in the Da Vinci Code?

[Sam]

It's probably what they're trying to do in Russia.

[Saroo]

So when asked why he would come forward and risk his job like this, the physics and electronics graduate told Channel 8 News that he was sick and tired of getting absolutely no recognition for all those books he wrote. No. That he thought that withholding this kind of information was a crime against science and an insult to the American people.

[Sam]

Yeah. He sort of makes the argument that if the scientific community were given this information, like, God knows what they would be able to do with it.

[Saroo]

Yeah.

[Sam]

He's forgetting about leaking it to the Chinese.

[Saroo]

Yeah. I mean, he's like, I am a scientific whistleblower.

[Sam]

Yes.

[Saroo]

And the people must know exactly that.

[Sam]

Bob Lazar also described a bone scanner in one of his interviews. And he says that the workers on Area 51 and the surrounding bases used it to gain access into the labs. And it does look like something that in the 80s would be considered science fiction. You put your hand on it and there are pins in between your fingers, and then it scans your bone structure, and then it lets you in.

[Saroo]

Right.

[Sam]

And he's describing this in 1989, and everyone's like, that's not fucking real. Anyway, very recently they released it and they Were like, yeah, that we did have those.

[Saroo]

What?

[Sam]

Yes, and it's exactly what he describes, right, Bob? So Bob Lazar uses that information as vindication for everything he is claiming inside or near to Area 51, being irrefutable proof that there is another world and the government has been hiding it for us for years.

[Saroo]

Is this that Bob Lazar is legit? Or is this like, if George Orwell was around, he'd be like, I say, I told you. Is he just because he's a writer, he's a storyteller and he correctly predicted this one thing and he's like, I fucking knew it. I mean, like, you know, Alex Jones was like, the water's turning, the frog's gay. It kind of is.

[Sam]

Yeah, exactly. This is why I'm conflicted. So he comes out with this interview in 1989, pretending he's Dennis. Very quickly after that he says, no, I'm not Dennis. I'm Bob Lazar and I'm a scientist. I've been working near Area 51. I've also worked at Los Alamos, which is where Oppenheimer Oppenheimed. And I went to Caltech and I went to mit. All of those institutions were like, we've never heard of this guy in our fucking life. Uh, oh, no record of him at all.

[Saroo]

Oh, Bob.

[Sam]

But why would they, why would they admit to it? And apparently Bob Lazar's name does appear in an old phone book for Los Alamos Labs where he claimed to have worked as a scientist. I've seen a picture of it. It is there. Robert Lazar. This is his number. This is his lab.

[Saroo]

I'm also like, bob, right? I'm not saying he's lying. I don't know what's going on. But if he was there. And yes, I can totally understand why the university's like, he's got nothing to do with us. Yeah, but he must have been at uni in like the 50s.

[Sam]

Well, no, I mean, if he's. He's on TV at 89 as like and he's still only just middle aged now.

[Saroo]

Oh, right, okay. So the picture I saw of him is now. Oh, okay then. So he was at the. He was at uni like way later. How's it not one picture of you at uni that you have?

[Sam]

Well, this is it. I wonder whether they just missed one phone book.

[Saroo]

They did a full swipe. Break important poplars up, break it to his house, Destroy all of his beloved pictures. Destroy every yearbook that every person ever had with him in it. But Forgot one phone book.

[Sam]

Yes. And that is my problem with that element of the story and also the way he talks about it when he is questioned. Now he's like, I don't understand why everyone gets so caught up in those details. And I'm like, because it underpins your whole story, Bob.

[Saroo]

Yeah, it's. It's troublesome. It's irksome.

[Sam]

So if you want to find out more, there is a documentary on Prime, I believe, all about Bob Lazar. And it does open with the quite promising line, the Earth is not the center of the universe. At least not anymore, anyway. It is probably the worst documentary I have ever seen, and I have watched a lot of them. Ouch. I could not finish it. Oh, God. Watch it if you must.

[Saroo]

No, thanks.

[Sam]

It's not even poorly made. It's just so fucking boring. George Knapp is in it like the original journalist.

[Saroo]

What's it called?

[Sam]

It's called like, Bob Lazar and the Big Fat Lie or something. No, I'll look it up. It's called. It's called Bob Lazar, Area 51 and Flying Sources.

[Saroo]

Oh, no.

[Sam]

It was made in 2018.

[Saroo]

You need a more dramatic.

[Sam]

Yeah, yeah, like Bob Lazar and the Big Fat Lie, I think, you know, Watch that.

[Saroo]

Yeah, yeah. Okay.

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[Saroo]

So, anyway, hoax or not, Lazar set things off in the 80s. No matter how unlikely his claims were or whether he even worked there in the first place, the connection between Area 51 and extraterrestrials was cemented forever in pop culture. That's crazy. That, like, imagine being, like, one man who maybe just lied, and then you set off this entire bomb that permeates pop culture and our psyches forever. Yeah, that's wild. So in some texts, Lazar claimed to have seen alien autopsy photographs during his time at Groom Lake. And some theorists think that these must have been bodies from the 1947 Roswell crash. But Lazar was not the first to connect the two places.

[Sam]

Yeah, his interview really sort of slams it into pop culture forever. There were people who were making the connection between the two places, but they're fucking 2,000 miles apart. It's across the country now.

[Saroo]

Some people think that the debris from the original Roswell crash was taken to Area 51, even though transporting alien remains almost 2000 miles does seem a little bit unlikely. That is the theory.

[Sam]

I just don't believe there isn't a secret military base. If there is this nationwide alien program, that. That was the only one, maybe.

[Saroo]

It's hard to keep a secret. It's better to just keep one secret in one place. Multiple alien autopsy.

[Sam]

Two dead aliens keeping them secret for 2000 miles. What if you need gas just to put a T shirt and a hat on. He's reading the newspaper.

[Saroo]

So in case you live under a rock or have never watched the E4

[Sam]

series, fucking cracking series.

[Saroo]

I never actually did watch Roswell. Oh, really? I've seen, like, I've seen. I've seen enough of it in Passing that. I'm aware of what it's about.

[Sam]

I mean, it was basically Smallville.

[Saroo]

Yes, that's what I was gonna say. It was the same guy, wasn't it? But yes, in case you didn't watch it, here is what the hell we are talking about when we talk about the Roswell incident. What the military and government claim to be a weather balloon crashed over New Mexico in 1947. But if we all remember to last year when the Chinese were like, oh, that's not a spy balloon. That's just a weather balloon. Oh, it's just flown into American territory. Oh, no, you shot it down. Don't look. Oh, it's. It self destructs. It's just a weather balloon.

[Sam]

You've just blown this whole thing wide open. By the way, you've ruined my punchline. Oh, no.

[Saroo]

Let's crack on. So the wreckage was discovered by rancher Mac Brazel. He stared at the chunks of metal held together by tape and foil reflectors and was totally baffled, especially as he heard an explosion the night before. So he went to the sheriff of Roswell, not knowing what else to do.

[Sam]

But before he toddled off to the sheriff, Brazel did have quite a good look at the debris in one of his fields. It was unlike anything he'd ever seen before. The pieces looked metallic, but they were far lighter than any metal he had ever seen. And if they were scrunched up or bent, they would regain their original form automatically after the pressure was released. Again, unlike anything Mac had ever seen or even conceived of. This is 1947. And even more interestingly than that, there were strange markings all over the pieces of metal. Brazil had no idea what they meant, and he could only describe them as hieroglyphics to the press. And the Sheriff of Roswell had even less idea what he was looking at. But he had heard reports of flying objects in the sky the night before. So he did the only thing he knew how to do, and he called the Air Force, who had a base nearby.

[Saroo]

Let me get this right. There's an Air Force base nearby, and they're like, there's something in the sky. Cool.

[Sam]

The Air Force quickly hurried in military personnel to sweep away the mysterious metals. As the locals of Roswell looked on, confused. The shards of metallics were taken off to an air base, supposedly for testing.

[Saroo]

And there are those who believe to this day that there were extraterrestrial bodies recovered from that crash site that were taken off to Area 51, nearly 2,000 miles away for autopsy.

[Sam]

Like the famous Alien autopsy video.

[Saroo]

Yeah.

[Sam]

Was filmed in London.

[Saroo]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, we would have called it a post mortem, but there you go. It's not quite as catchy as.

[Sam]

It doesn't alliterate.

[Saroo]

No alien postmortem. Now, a couple of enthusiasts and authors of the book the Truth about the UFO Crash at Schmidt and Randall claim to have eyewitness testimony of extraterrestrial bodies being recovered from the site. They say, I mean, if I was going to write a book called the Truth about the UFO Crash at Roswell, I would also say that.

[Sam]

So they say that they interview the pilot who, like, surveilled the space and was like, them. There's bodies. And yes, they claim to speak to a lot of people who were in the recovery operation. I don't believe them.

[Saroo]

I don't want to be like, there's nothing going on, because do I think the government lied to us? Yes. But do I think that the government is also massively capable of, like, keeping a secret like that for years and years and years? I don't know. But then are they using their incompetence to smoke screen me? So I don't know.

[Sam]

Well, that is something they do all the time.

[Saroo]

This is what I mean. So I don't know. So I'm not here to, like, be like, there's nothing going on. It's only what we can see. And I don't believe there could be literally anything. I don't know. But also, some of the people that piggyback onto this kind of conspiracy theory stuff that we have seen are also crazy. So who do you believe? I don't know. Nobody believe nobody except us. Now, apparently these remains that Schmidt and Randall are talking about in their book were found in fairly good condition, even though they had been there for six days in the desert and also had crashed out of the sky and also had been partially eaten by animals. That wouldn't be my definition of in fairly good condition. Now, they were, according to the book interviewees, definitely biological entities. About 4 foot tall with big heads, large eyes and small mouths, four fingers and good old arms, exactly like Roger the alien.

[Sam]

It reminded me of what you said about satanic panic the other day, about how kids always end up saying the same thing. Why do we all think aliens look like that if it's not true?

[Saroo]

Again, it feels like somebody somewhere started that little gray man thing, and then we all sort of got so used to seeing that image again and again and again and just replicate it time and time again. But it is interesting now apparently an army nurse who claimed to have worked on the preliminary autopsy at Roswell before Paul and his friends were sent on their merry way to Area 51 remarked on the fragility of the creature's skulls and bones. According to Schmidt and Randall, those who participated in the alien autopsies were kept silent by the military for years, naturally.

[Sam]

But as reports of the so called spy balloon emerged in the 80s and 90s, these eyewitnesses started to crawl out of the woodwork. However, in 1994, all was revealed by the Pentagon. Apparently the debris that was discovered that day was no weather balloon, but they weren't unhuman either. Since the end of World War II, a group of geophysicists and oceanographers from Columbia University had been working on an espionage project called Project Mogul. And their job was to create hyper lightweight high altitude balloons capable of carrying sound sensors for thousands of miles across the Earth's atmosphere, all the way over to mother Russia to eavesdrop on any nuclear weapons tests that might be going on over there. So essentially, Project Mogul were testing spy balloons similar to the Chinese ones that ran air ground in the USA last year. So the story that the US Military are now telling about Roswell is the debris discovered in 1947 was the remains of a 700 foot string of neoprene balloons, trackers and sonic equipment launched by Project Mogul and Mat Brazel. He's never going to see neoprene before. He's never going to see an algebraic symbol before, you know, so I can understand why he seemed completely otherworldly to him. And on top of that, the Pentagon revealed that Project Mogul was so top secret at the time of the Roswell incident that the Air Force base near the crash site would have known absolutely nothing about it. So the sheriff of Roswell, New Mexico would have known even less. But they would say that, wouldn't they?

[Saroo]

They would now. Anyway, just as Bob Lazar kicked this all off again in 1989, it was his 2019 appearance on the Joe Rogan Experience that gave way to an all new kind of Area 51 related phenomenon. California based Matty Roberts was among one of the millions who heard Joe Rogan's episode with Bob Lazar. And he had the bright idea to start a Facebook event titled Storm Area 51. They can't stop all of us. I remember seeing this now. The page quickly gained thousands of followers. The idea was they would meet in the early hours of September 20, 2019 and get inside Area 51 to see them. Aliens within Days, the page had over millions of RSVPs. Quickly, though, not wanting to be responsible for Fyre Fest 2.0, Roberts distanced himself from the event.

[Sam]

That's exactly what he says as well. He was like, whoa, man. Like, this was a joke. Like, please just don't do that.

[Saroo]

But again, it is just very telling of the fact that there is such a level of distrust between the public and the government, which I understand, I understand that people are like, fck them. They can't stop all of us. Let's just go find out what the fuck is going on. And I can also understand why he was like, no, thanks again.

[Sam]

Actually, he's like literally a student. He's so young.

[Saroo]

Oh, my God, that's hilarious. But didn't matter whether he was in on it or not anymore, because the event went ahead without him. Although those who arrived in the tiny town of Rachel, Nevada, the closest to the base and also home to the world famous Ailey Inn, expecting some kind of military operation, would have been sorely disappointed.

[Sam]

So comedian, that's what I reckon went to storm area 51. I love him. He's Australian and he went to this. And yet again, like, anything interesting I ever hear. I heard this on Dan Shriver's podcast and he was like, the alien is the weirdest fucking place because you can order Galactic fries. They're just fries. There's nothing galactic. There's not. They don't even have sauce on them.

[Saroo]

Love it. I've watched a documentary set there. I can't remember what it is.

[Sam]

It's a Louis Theroux weird weekend.

[Saroo]

Maybe it's a Louis Theroux weird Weekend. Yeah, it's just, I. You know what? We need these people, though. We need these people to be out there doing weird shit. So I'm here for that. But yes, like I said, these people who turned up were going to be sorely disappointed because what they were met with instead of a military operation were just a bunch of people, nearly 6,000 in fact, who just really liked aliens.

[Sam]

Yeah, it's quite sweet, really.

[Saroo]

It is very sweet. And although a few people did make it quite near the Area 51 gates, the security of the military base was not challenged, like, at all.

[Sam]

Most people were so hungover they didn't get up in time.

[Saroo]

I love it. Actually, most attendees dressed up and drank limited edition alien themed Bud Light. And of course, many of them were just memelords looking for an excuse to wear a Pepe the Frog costume. The serious alien hunters looked on at this event in Scorn and had their own party at the nearby Alien Research center instead.

[Sam]

We said no hoo mers.

[Saroo]

It's so pathetic. There was also a party in Vegas the same weekend, which Matty Roberts did attend, mainly to sign autographs for people wearing green Lives Matter T shirts.

[Sam]

So no one at The Storm Area 51 event saw them Aliens. But are they there? Probably not, but there are a few other reasons why people have always been wary of Area 51, despite the bright lights of nuclear tests belonging to the Nevada Nuclear Testing Range,

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[Sam]

We need to remember that the area itself, the testing range, is massive and there is nothing there at all. And that's entirely on purpose. In 1954, President Eisenhower requested a secret location where he could start a high altitude reconnaissance program, and he found one in Area 51. And what does that mean, my friends? It means spy planes, not spy balloons.

[Saroo]

We've moved on.

[Sam]

And what are spy planes? They're flying objects that look funny and go faster than what we would expect. The first one tested at Groom lake was the U2 spy plane, which, like Project Mogul, was designed to spy on the commies who were getting dangerously close to becoming a nuclear power. The U2 could travel 70,000ft in the air and travel 3,000 miles without needing to refuel, all whilst carrying £700 worth of cameras, high tech enough to collect intelligence from the ground below. And in 1960, a U2 was shot down in Soviet airspace, which forced the US to admit that they were doing naughty spying.

[Saroo]

So they needed a better plane. And along came the SR71 Blackbird, which was even better and more sneaky than the U2. It could fly 80,000ft in the air and faster than 2,000 miles an hour, so it couldn't be taken out of the sky by enemy fire. So if you were to get into Area 51 now, you'd probably find the next in the US spy plane range. But still, it isn't hard to see why an area testing spy planes for decades in secret would get a reputation for strange goings on in the sky. Things like drones, decoy flares, stealth bombers and all round weird classified stuff were happening above our heads. And then we have the nuclear testing. There was plenty still to do after the destruction of Japan, and this was called Operation Plumb. Bob Plumbob's plumb job included explosions, troop readiness exercises and some accidental detonations and flinging of debris into living targets. And actually, after the US told everyone to stop nuclear testing and promised that they would definitely, definitely not continue doing

[Sam]

it themselves, they of course kept doing it in secret. And eventually disaster struck near Area 51. A 148 pound chunk of radioactive material was shot up into the air. And that meant there was an entire subsection of Area 51 that nobody could go to for over six weeks. And after that six week period was over, men in hazmat suits were sent in to scrub the land, a la Chernobyl. So again, anyone without top level security who saw that from afar would probably have some questions, because we always see hazmat suits in Alien films. Also, to allude to Saroo's point earlier about smokescreens, it completely suited the CIA and the Pentagon for people to think that there was something going on at Area 51 that wasn't actually happening. So it isn't impossible to believe that a misinformation campaign was in place. And higher ups had no interest in displacing any alien rumours because they were too worried about people finding out about the spy planes and the dirty bombs. Actually, Obama was the very first President ever to use the phrase Area 51 in a public address. He declassified it live on stage at an awards ceremony at the Kennedy Center. I think it is important to point out that like, yes, a lot of the early sightings and the sightings that we've talked about happened in like the 20s, 30s, 40s where Area 51 wasn't really operational. So people are going to be like, aha, that is a halt. But like people retroactively connect things all the time. So I don't know if that. I would love to believe it.

[Saroo]

Like, oh my God, I'd love to believe it.

[Sam]

Like, are there aliens? Almost certainly. Like, it's almost impossible that we are on our own.

[Saroo]

No, it's that quote, right? Who said it? I don't know, but it's like either we're completely alone in the universe or we're not. And both of those thoughts are completely terrifying.

[Sam]

I think it's the guy who wrote 20 on Space Odyssey.

[Saroo]

No idea, but I totally, totally believe. Absolutely. It's not even believe it's statistically impossible. It feels like a statistical impossibility that we are the only creatures in the entire universe. That is ridiculous. And it does feel a little bit like the Catholic church being like the Earth is the center of the universe.

[Sam]

It is him. It's Arthur C. Clarke.

[Saroo]

Well, there you go. Arthur C. Clarke put it best. So, yeah, there's no way it's not. And do I think that there's intelligent enough stuff near enough to get near to us? Maybe. I want to believe.

[Sam]

But are they at Area 51?

[Saroo]

I'd have moved them by now if I was the government. I won't keep them there.

[Sam]

It's unlikely. But I do think that that doesn't necessarily make the base not interesting because it is entirely possible, if not probable that every major advancement in American espionage had happened inside that base.

[Saroo]

Which is fascinating.

[Sam]

It's just as interesting as aliens, in my opinion.

[Saroo]

There you go.

[Sam]

Because they've saved and killed load of people. If that's true.

[Saroo]

So that's it, guys. That is our Shorthand on Area 51. We'll come back to this again. Aliens. I think it's fascinating. Maybe we can do something, something on the Fermi paradox, or maybe we can do something on ancient aliens building all of the monuments. I don't know. We'll come back to it. Suggestions?

[Sam]

Get Graham Hancock on the phone.

[Saroo]

There you go. Oh, what a man. I've thought about him in ages. But yeah, there you go. And we will see you next week for something else. Great.

[Sam]

Bye, Sam.