ShortHand: How Likely is a Zombie Apocalypse?

Summary

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Podcast Summary: RedHanded – ShortHand: How Likely is a Zombie Apocalypse?

Release Date: April 28, 2026
Hosts: RedHanded (Main Host & Co-Host)
Duration (excluding ads): ~31 minutes

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Episode Overview

In this episode, the RedHanded team dives into the panic-inducing and pop-culture-fueled question: Could a zombie apocalypse really happen? The hosts use their trademark blend of dark humor, scientific curiosity, and macabre storytelling to explore the foundations and scientific parallels of the zombie myth, examining pathogens and scenarios that might (however remotely) lead to a real-life “zombie outbreak.” From Haitian voodoo origins to rabies, mind-controlling fungi, and the alarming prospect of ancient viruses thawing from permafrost, the hosts look at both past myth and current science to gauge if (and how) humanity could ever face its own nightmarish zombie epidemic.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Scene: Post-Pandemic Paranoia

• [00:43]: The hosts recall the impact of the recent pandemic on daily life to draw parallels with the hypothetical spread of a zombie virus.
• “Just imagine how entirely fucked we would be if the virus we were fighting… turned people into terrifying hordes of mindless aggressors.” – Main Host (00:43)
• Zombie narratives are rooted not in fantasy alone, but in our understanding of viral contagion.

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2. The Evolution of the Zombie Myth

From Voodoo Ritual to Viral Outbreaks

• [02:09]: Co-Host summarizes the origin of zombie lore in Haitian Vodou.
  • Originally: Undead reanimated by spiritual possession (by “lua” spirits)—a one-at-a-time, non-contagious phenomenon.
  • Modern popular culture morphs this into “contagion horror.”
• [03:24]: Main Host identifies common contemporary zombie story arcs—rabies, infectious agents, and more.

The Haitian Zombie Drug: A Real-World Case

• [04:33]: The US Zombie Research Society’s three zombie criteria:

  1. Reanimated human corpse
  2. Relentlessly aggressive
  3. Biologically infected and infectious

• Notably, “A” (reanimation) is dismissed as impossible, shifting the focus to scientific plausibility.

• [04:40]: The case of Clairvius Narcisse—“zombified” by potent plant/animal toxins in Haiti, which allowed him to survive burial and be used as forced labor.

  • Used as a method of social control: threats of zombification were used to discourage slaves from suicide—tying into narrative origins (07:13).

  “...if you kill yourself, you will come back, we will turn you into a zombie, and you will be forced to work the sugar plantation for all eternity as a zombie.” – Co-Host (07:13)

• [08:10]: Scientific explanations: Toxins like those of the pufferfish and datura might be responsible for “zombification,” but scaling this up for epidemic spread isn't realistic.

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3. Pathogens in the Real World: Rabies as a Zombie Analog

How Rabies Works

• [09:48]: Viruses remodel host cells to replicate. Rabies is particularly sneaky—remaining hidden until it attacks the nervous system and brain.
  • “When an infected animal or person bites a non infected one, the virus... stays out of the bloodstream, so the immune system remains oblivious…” – Co-Host (09:48)

Rabies Symptoms and Spread

• [11:11]: Once the virus manifests, symptoms are disturbingly close to zombie tropes: aggression, delirium, hydrophobia (which encourages the spread of infected saliva).

  “So infected people are aggressive and unpredictable. And if they bite you, you go the same way. And that sounds like a zombie to me.” – Main Host (11:11)

• Rabies requires violent transmission—deep bites—so it’s not highly contagious among humans.

• [12:16]: Airborne rabies is vanishingly rare but has occurred in Texas caves.

  “The only way that it could really fuck us is if the rabies virus mutated to be better at travelling through the air like Covid did.” – Main Host (12:16)

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4. Fungal Nightmares: Cordyceps and the ‘Last of Us’ Scenario

The Science of Cordyceps

• [15:07]: Cordyceps fungi (famously adapted in ‘The Last of Us’) infect insects, take over their bodily functions, and manipulate behavior for spore dissemination.

  • Notable species: Ophiocordyceps unilateralis (zombie ant fungus).

  “Cordyceps isn’t interested in the ant’s stupid little brain, just hijacks the ant’s muscles and from then on, the ant is powerless to fight it.” – Main Host (16:17)

• [17:56]: The infamous “death grip”—ants controlled to bite onto leaves before being killed and “sprouting” fungal fruiting bodies from their heads.

Wacky Variants & Host Specificity

• [19:06]: The Massospora fungus in cicadas turns them sexually hyperactive, fills them with stimulants, and causes parts of their bodies to fall off—all to spread spores further.

• [20:41]: Cordyceps (and similar fungi) are highly specialized to insect hosts and extremely unlikely to evolve to target humans for thousands of years (though human-infecting fungi like athlete’s foot do exist).

  “We’re away off from them controlling our brains or our muscles or our feet or our vaginas.” – Co-Host (21:25)

Cordyceps as a Wellness Supplement

• [21:36]: Cordyceps has a long history as a health tonic in China, with no danger to humans, and is currently marketed globally as a wellness product.

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5. Ancient Pathogens: The Permafrost Time Bomb

Thawing Permafrost and Prehistoric Threats

• [23:11]: As permafrost thaws, ancient microbes and viruses may be reawakened. Some can remain viable for tens of thousands of years (“Methuselah microbes”).

  “You could put a yogurt in permafrost, and it still might be edible 50,000 years later, which makes it ideal for trapping ancient prehistoric pathogens.” – Main Host (23:11)

• [24:46]: Climate change rapidly increases thaw, as highlighted by the 2016 Siberian anthrax outbreak (triggered by exposed reindeer carcasses).

• Some found permafrost viruses are over 48,000 years old (Pandoravirus), but so far only infect amoeba.

Laboratory Risks

• [26:29]: Russian labs are probing ancient animal remains, experimenting with reviving “paleoviruses.” If containment failed, pathogens could theoretically leap to humans.

• Human disruption (mining, shipping) in the Arctic increases the likelihood of exposing ancient viral threats.

  “In some ways we're not so much as opening Pandora's box, we're pummeling it with a jackhammer.” – Co-Host (27:46)

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6. Animal and Synthetic Zombification: Other Nightmares

• [30:05]: Brief mentions of other pathogens with “zombifying” effects:
  • Bornavirus: Causes fatal aggression in horses.
  • Mad Cow Disease (CJD): Causes brain holes and personality changes; nearly unstoppable.
  • Drug-induced “zombification:” Fentanyl, krokodil, and flakka can make users aggressive, unpredictable, and seemingly “superhuman.”

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Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Stay away from the bats. Did you learn nothing?” – Main Host (12:46)
• “Being infected with a deadly fungus that will force you to dance around wildly shagging everything that moves until your arse literally falls off is not everyone's idea of a good time.” – Co-Host (20:41)
• “Trust no bitch. Fucking hell. Have we learned nothing?” – Main Host (26:29)
• “In some ways we're not so much as opening Pandora's box, we're pummeling it with a jackhammer.” – Co-Host (27:46)
• “I was like, mom, if you make me watch the depressed fishermen one more time, I will become more depressed than all of them and hang myself.” – Main Host (29:45)

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Notable Timestamps

• 00:43 – Post-pandemic reality and the premise of viral apocalypse
• 04:33 – Defining “zombie” and the truth behind Haitian Zombies
• 08:10 – Scientific explanations for zombie myths
• 09:48 – Rabies: how it works, why it’s a “zombie virus”
• 11:11 – Rabies symptoms compared to pop culture zombies
• 12:16–12:56 – Airborne rabies and human risk
• 15:07–19:06 – Cordyceps and real-life mind control in insects
• 20:41–21:31 – Why Cordyceps won’t zombify humans
• 21:36 – Cordyceps as a wellness supplement
• 23:11–28:03 – Thawing permafrost and the “Pandoravirus” threat
• 30:05 – Other “zombie” disorders (bornavirus, mad cow, drugs)
• 31:03 – Final thoughts and comedic send-off

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Conclusion

The episode expertly blends spooky mythmaking with science, debunking the likelihood of a true zombie apocalypse but cataloguing the disturbing ways nature comes close.
The verdict: Modern science offers no plausible route for undead hordes, but infectious rage, mind control, and accidental outbreaks are closer to reality than we’d like. In the unlikeliest case, climate change or reckless science might yet unleash something terrifying from the past. For now: wash your hands, leave the bats (and caves) alone, and—says the hosts—avoid any TV drama about pandemic lockdowns.

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Final Sign-Offs (31:09–31:15):

• Main Host: “Wash your hands.”
• Co-Host: “Yeah.”
• Main Host: “Don’t breathe.”
• Co-Host: “Happy birthday.”
• Main Host: “Leave the bats alone.”
• Co-Host: “All that. Stay out of the caves.”
• Main Host: “Bye Bye.”

Transcript

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[Main Host]

Hello, hello and welcome to us sitting in a room together, which for ages we couldn't do. Having quite recently dragged ourselves through the global pandemic. We know how fast and how life changingly viruses can spread over this little blue dot that we have to live on. And how totally inept governments can be at containing them. So just imagine how entirely fucked we would be if the virus we were fighting to cantain did more than just weaken people or kill them. What if instead there was a virus that changed people? What if it took from people the ability to reason or recognise their own families? What if it replaced emotions with deep atavistic rage? What if this virus flew invisibly from person to person, turning them into terrifying hordes of mindless aggressors? If that ever happened. All the disinfectant in the world couldn't save us. Or even washing your hands to happy birthday twice.

[Co-Host]

All being locked up in your house,

[Main Host]

slowly descending into alcoholism and pissing in my washing basket. Yes, I remember it all too well, thank you very much.

[Co-Host]

Yeah, so the reason all this sounds like it's pulled straight out of science fiction is because it is. Zombies are a certified pop culture phenomenon. But unlike their Halloween costume counterparts, like vampires, ghouls and witches, zombie lore today is rooted in science. The tradition originally comes from Haitian voodoo, a wildly misunderstood religion that we actually did a whole separate shorthand on, which you should definitely go listen to. But in voodoo, zombies start off as individual undead monsters, previously dead people brought back through possession by demigods called lua. It was done to one body at a time for a specific purpose. And importantly, you couldn't catch it. The idea changed over the years with the influence of ghost and vampire myths and zombie lore. Now, more than anything, is a story of contagion. A virus spread through bites or even just pass through the air. One that changes people into ravenous, mindless monsters, hell bent on sinking their teeth into people to spread the disease.

[Main Host]

In modern zombie stories from 28 days later in the Last of Us, writers and showrunners have expanded on the zombie myth so let's explore the very worst that deadly pathogens can do. Just how close to reality are we talking? This week we're looking through all of the most likely real life scenarios in which something like a zombie outbreak could occur. And we're going to do a little brush up on what we've covered before the teeth gnashing, mind bending frenzy of rabies. You were asking me earlier about seals in Cape Town.

[Co-Host]

Uh huh.

[Main Host]

They've all got rabies.

[Co-Host]

Oh, okay.

[Main Host]

But how are you a seal with hydrophobia? Answer me that. Internet. Anyway, moving on, we're going to look at the crafty bodily controlling fungus Cordyceps, which makes insects go on a sex mad, amphetamine fueled rampage until their literal butts fall off. And we explore the possibility of ancient viruses trapped for millions of years in the Siberian permafrost being released back into the air. This is the shorthand.

[Co-Host]

Like we said, the rules on what exactly constitutes a zombie varies from story to story. The US based Zombie Research Society defines a zombie with three criteria. A, it is a reanimated human corpse, it's a very strong start. B, it is relentlessly aggressive and C, it is biologically infected and infectious. Item A is the one we'll spend the least amount of time talking about today. You can't bring people back from the dead. So yeah, it's immediately a bit of a foible in these three points that have to be met. But before we move on, we should probably mention the Haitian zombie drug. In April 1962, Clavarius Narciss checked into a hospital in Deschapelles, Haiti. He was spitting up blood and he was confused and feverish. Three days later he was pronounced dead and a day later he was buried. Then 18 years later he came back to the village. His relatives recognised him immediately and he even backed his identity up by recalling intimate family information. Clarovis said that he'd been paralysed but fully conscious for his entire burial and then said his body was dug up and given a strange paste by a voodoo priest. He said that he quickly gained back control of his body, but stayed dazed, confused and compliant. Clarovas said that he was made to work on a sugar plantation for years and told investigators that he believed he had been made into a zombie and that the sorcerer had taken his soul. I'm watching a TV show at the moment which I'm quite enjoying actually. It sounds terrible, but it is actually quite good. It's called Evil. Terrible name, terrible name. But it's about a priest. Hot priest, obviously Classic. Oh, he's not a priest yet. He's about to become a priest. He's about to be ordained. But he's in seminary and a psychologist. And they team up and they investigate miracles and. Or possessions and. Or, like, other nefarious or very nice things that are happening by people who are coming to the church claiming that it is possession or an angel or something like this. And then it's like Christian exiles. Okay. Yeah, exactly. And then at the end of each episode is like, they always find, like, a potential scientific solution, but the priest is like, but we still don't know.

[Main Host]

Oh, so literally Christian X Files.

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[Co-Host]

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[Main Host]

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[Co-Host]

It is fun, honestly. And in that. In one of the episodes, they're talking about zombies. And I didn't know this. I know I wrote the Haitian Vadu episode on this, the shorthand that we did before, but it was talking about the sugar plantation thing. So I'm not surprised that Clarovis is saying that, because it was this idea that zombies were actually something that was made up by owners of sugar plantations who would say that as a way to stop slaves from killing themselves because the conditions were so horrible. Because they told them, if you kill yourself, you will come back, we will turn you into a zombie, and you will be forced to work the sugar plantation for all eternity as a zombie. Whereas if you just work the sugar plantation like you're supposed to and then you die, you might go to heaven. So don't you dare kill yourself. And that's actually where the myth originally came from. And it was used as a way to scare slaves from killing themselves, which I thought was quite interesting.

[Main Host]

In Clarabus case, what do we think actually happened? The most likely explanation was put forward by ethnobotanist Wade Davis. He suspected that Clarabis was given a mixture of naturally occurring but highly potent chemicals. Did you know that 25% of drugs in a pharmacy come from the Amazon rainforest?

[Co-Host]

Yes.

[Main Host]

Cool. So I believe it. If you mix a toxin found in a pufferfish with one found on toads and apply it to a wound, you become Homer Simpson. Or you can induce a coma so deep that medical instruments would register you as dead. And as for the wake up gel, Davis thinks that that is most likely a weed called datura stramonium, otherwise known as devil's trumpet. It's a powerful hallucinogen which is known to be used ritually to induce intense sacred or occult visions. It's all spooky stuff, but as we said, it's a one at a time sort of ritual. Making this kind of zombieism into a large scale epidemic would take a hell of a lot of toads. So if we leave reanimated corpses to one side, what are the real life pathogens that are most similar to an on screen zombie outbreak? Best place to start is rabies. And we do have a shorthand on rabies. So go and download that one to hear about the young girl who, against all the odds, became the first known person in history to survive the disease. But for now, we're going to take a quick look at the virus itself and how likely it is to break out and turn the world into mindless, bloodthirsty zombies. Take me first.

[Co-Host]

Hmm. It'll probably be useful to start with the basics, like what's a virus? Well, essentially it's a little bundle of genetic instructions wrapped up in a nice little protein shell. When it bumps into a cell, it replaces that cell's instructions with its own. And the cell, instead of doing its normal job, starts to manufacture the virus instead. It's not conscious, it's not responsive, it doesn't make decisions, it just spreads because it's invasive and destructive. And sorry to tell you, but you and every human being on earth is inhaling thousands of viral particles every single day. But thankfully, your immune system is incredible and destroys most viruses before any symptoms can even develop. Still, some viruses are one step ahead and rabies is one of them. When an infected animal or person bites a non infected one, the virus comes into contact with muscle tissue and it stays there. The virus stays out of the bloodstream, so the immune system remains oblivious as the virus grows and infects more cells. Only when it's strong enough does the virus finally enter the nervous system and hot foot it to the brain.

[Main Host]

The individual feels a tingling sensation near the bite and then it is way, way too late to act. They already have a 99% chance of death. In a flash, the person changes. They can become delirious, aggressive, paranoid and adverse to light. And they become deathly afraid of water. And that's because the virus doesn't want you to swallow your saliva. It wants you spitting and foaming all around because that increases the chance of infection. So infected people are aggressive and unpredictable. And if they bite you, you go the same way. And that sounds like a zombie to me. The good ish news is that rabies is actually quite bad at spreading between humans. Spreading the virus through saliva mostly needs a deep and violent bite. And not all sufferers get what is Known as fur rabies with the gnashing and the hyperactivity.

[Co-Host]

But it is quite a hard way to then spread it because people are like, that person's nuts. Don't go fucking near them. That person's got rabies.

[Main Host]

Most people just become severely ill and confused. So compared to airborne viruses like the flu or Covid, rabies is very slow going. The only way that it could really fuck us is if the rabies virus mutated to be better at travelling through the air like Covid did. Viruses mutate pretty much every time they find a new host. And in some bat filled caves in Texas, rabies virus has been recorded in the air.

[Co-Host]

Don't go in there.

[Main Host]

Stay away from the bats. Did you learn nothing?

[Co-Host]

Stay away from caves. Stay away from bats. Let's close all of the caves. Why are we doing this again?

[Main Host]

That and the air rabies is thought to have infected and killed two researchers just from breathing it in.

[Co-Host]

Oh, good.

[Main Host]

So if a future mutation of air rabies develops to be airborne for longer so it can travel away from the caves in Texas, we are in trouble.

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[Co-Host]

The next course on our zombie infection tasting menu is Cordyceps. You might know Cordyceps as the breakout star of HBO's the Last of Us. The show is set in a world in which spore spreading, mind altering fungus has taken over most of the world's living things. And the virus on the show is based on a very real fungus, Cordyceps, which acts as an endoparasitoid on insects. And this is pretty fascinating stuff. Basically, a fungus is not an animal or a plant, but it is very much alive. Fungi eat organic matter, so plants and animals, and the only way they can grow is through their food.

[Main Host]

And they talk to each other on their Internet.

[Co-Host]

Yeah. Now, most fungi are content to chow down on dead or dying matter or snack on cast offs like molted hair or shedded skin. But not these Cordyceps. Cordyceps feed on a live host, and while it's doing so, it also controls that host like a little insect puppet, marionette master.

[Main Host]

I wouldn't mind being a puppet for like a day. I'm tired. Someone take the wheel. Most kinds of cordyceps are tailored specifically to feed on just one insect species. And its whole existence is built around feeding off and manipulating that one species to spread its nasty spores as fast as it can. The first one we'll look at is Orpheocordyceps unilateralis, otherwise known as zombie ant fungus. To make it simpler, its spores lie dormant in the soil in humid tropical forests in North America, Europe, east and Southeast Asia. And it lies there sleeping until it is unwittingly trodden on by a little ant. And then it latches on and starts boring through the ant's exoskeleton and into its body. For a while, the ant seems totally normal to the rest of the colony. And that is important, because ants are savage. If one gets sick, it is banished from the rest of the colony and left to die. So the ant carries on as normal for the first few hours, but all the while, the Cordyceps is growing, wrapping fungal threads around the ant's muscle tissue, getting all up in its nervous system. And this is key. Cordyceps isn't interested in the ant's stupid little brain just hijacks the ant's muscles and from then on, the ant is powerless to fight it. Then the Cordyceps makes the ant wander off from its colony. Having lost all control, it walks towards the most humid spot it can find, climbs to a leaf that's about 11 inches off the ground, which is the perfect spot for a sports sniper.

[Co-Host]

The ant is made to then walk to the edge and sink its teeth into a leaf with all its remaining strength in an action known as a death grip. And there it will stay as the cordyceps eats the ant alive from the inside. And when the fungus is strong enough, days after the ant has died, it's time for one final flourish. A long winding stalk suddenly bursts out of the ant's head.

[Main Host]

Whoa,

[Co-Host]

grim. That is grim. It's the fungus's fruiting structure, basically a big hose to spray out, you guessed it, fungal spores. All over that patch of forest, spores rain down, some ideally landing on more ants and some staying dormant in the soil, awaiting to be tripped. The zombie ant fungus is the most famous, but there are actually lots of different cordyceps that hijack other insects in maybe even wilder ways.

[Main Host]

One variant of Cordyceps is Massospora, and that only affects cicadas. It essentially eats them from the inside out before turning them into a drugged up, sex crazed zombie. In cicada mating cycles, the males send out mating calls and the females flick their wings to show that they're interested. But when a male cicada comes down with a case of the Goddesseps, it starts responding with the female wing flick too. This makes it highly attractive to both sexes, so it goes around shagging any and all takers. By this time, the cicada's abdomen will be chock full of spores, eventually destroying its entire lower half and making it fall off. And that's just the beginning. Then the buttless male cicada will go absolutely nuts. It gets a huge rush of energy and stays awake for days. The leading theory is, is that the cicada is high as a kite, absolutely flooded with an amphetamine called cathinone, which is essentially cicada speed. Some have even found to be pumped with psilocybin, the hallucinogenic compound found in magic mushrooms. With fungal spores still shooting out of their backsides, the cicadas fly around all over the place, spreading spores like a possessed salt shaker and probably seeing everything look a bit twinkly. Then totally exhausted and missing their entire bottom half, the cicada's spent body drops to the ground and it's all over.

[Co-Host]

Being infected with a deadly fungus that will force you to dance around wildly shagging everything that moves until your arse literally falls off is not everyone's idea of a good time. But the good news is that they are a long way off scaling up to working on us Vertebrates Cordyceps, like we said, are hyper specialized to a single species and it tends to choose ones that are pretty easy to hijack. Mammals and other vertebras are pretty complex and it will probably take them tens of thousands of years to evolve enough to take us on. That's not to say it's impossible though. For example, athlete's foot, yeast infections and thrush are all fungi and have evolved to get into human tissue.

[Main Host]

I know it.

[Co-Host]

But we're away off from them controlling our brains or our muscles or our feet or our vaginas.

[Main Host]

I don't know if I've got thrush. I feel pretty controlled.

[Co-Host]

In fact, it might reassure you to note that people in China have been drinking cordyceps for hundreds of years. Scientists started studying it in 1993 when Chinese Long distance runners started breaking world records and they were found in to be drinking a tonic made from zombie fungus. And you can even buy it here apparently in high end wellness brands and it's thought to help with respiratory, liver, heart and lung diseases. So there you go.

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[Main Host]

And for our last potential zombie apocalypse, we are taking you to the frozen north. About a fifth of the entire Northern hemisphere is covered by permafrost soil that has stayed below zero degrees for thousands, sometimes millions of years. It's very cold, it's very dark, and it's extremely low on oxygen, too, which just so happens to make it perfect for preserving biological material. In fact, as geneticist Jean Michel Clavery told the observer, you could put a yogurt in permafrost, and it still might be edible 50,000 years later, which makes it ideal for trapping ancient prehistoric pathogens. In 2014, Clavery led a team of researchers all the way up to the northernmost points of Russia to isolate what they call Methuselah microbes.

[Co-Host]

Love it.

[Main Host]

Or zombie viruses. They took samples of ancient Earth from the permafrost and found viruses lying dormant in the soil. And then, just because you can doesn't mean you should. They brought them back to life. The team even intentionally infected single cell organisms with these diseases, thereby proving that viruses trapped in permafrost do have the potential to reanimate and infect living hosts. And making that a very dicey prospect indeed, is climate change.

[Co-Host]

The Earth is getting hotter. Nowhere more so than in the northernmost parts of the world. The arctic has warmed four times faster than the rest of the world since 1979. So. So permafrost is thawing at a scary pace. And organic matter that's been trapped up there for millions of years is being unfrozen. In 2016, a heat wave in northern Siberia meant that some parts of that region hit 38 degrees Celsius, the highest temperature ever recorded in the Arctic Circle. So the permafrost thought it exposed reindeer carcasses that had been infected with anthrax. It caused the world's first anthrax outbreak for decades, and it even took a child's life. The danger suddenly seemed very real. Scientists believe that permafrost might contain viruses that are up to a million years old. That's quite a lot older than our species, who evolved about 300,000 years ago. That means that no human immune system has ever come into contact with. With those particular microbes. It's a very real possibility that some of these viruses affected Neanderthals and may have even killed off other similar species. And the zombie virus discoveries just keep on coming. In 2022, a sample was found in Siberia that was more than 48,500 years old. It's the oldest frozen virus to infected living cells. It was named quite poetically as Pandoravirus for its ominous implications of a potential worldwide shitstorm.

[Main Host]

The good news so far is that all prehistoric viruses that have been found are only able to affect amoebi and pose zero risk to humans. But trust no bitch. Fucking hell. Have we learned nothing? And there is a lot of permafrost to go. There's a lot going on a lot deeper and the Earth is only getting hotter. So God knows what human compatible viruses might be unleashed in the future. The Russians for one, are convinced that it is only a matter of time. They have a state laboratory in Siberia called Vektor with a K which was built to build biological weapons. Now it's used for chemical research mostly into viruses which are the same thing. And they have made it their mission to find and identify paleoviruses. They're probing the remains of mammoths, woolly rhinoceroses and other prehistoric animals and they are really playing with fire. They're literally reviving these mammal viruses in lab conditions. If anything was compromised, it is not totally impossible that an ancient infection could make the leap to our animals.

[Co-Host]

And that's not even the most reckless things humans are doing vis a vis ancient zombie pathogens. Because in some ways we're not so much as opening Pandora's box, we're pummeling it with a jackhammer.

[Main Host]

Don't make me go back inside. I can't do it again. Fuck that shit.

[Co-Host]

With the melting sea ice, shipping and development have also increased in the region. And huge mining operations are waiting in the wings to swoop in and drill into the permafrost for oil and ores. This will release vast amounts of pathogens and changing land use is actually one of the key things that cause epidemic outbreaks. The Nippar virus was spread by fruit bats who were driven from their habitats by humans. Monkeypox was linked to the spread of urbanisation in Africa. These days there's an Arctic monitoring network that's keeping an eye out for early cases of any new diseases out there. Quarantine facilities are being built and medical supplies brought over. So if a million year old virus is unleashed, there will be a small group of plucky scientists up on that frozen Arctic fighting to contain it and potentially save the world. So, you know, that feels like a pretty good film plotline we can all wait to watch once we figured out who the survivors are.

[Main Host]

What I am so glad has never happened yet. I was so worried that like post Covid, because obviously people were trying to make like zoom TV shows because everything was shut down. I was so concerned that after we made it out the other side, if we did, I didn't know at the time. I was like, I really do not want to have to sit through television dramas about COVID I just did it. And there was this one BBC series about the depressed fishermen in Cornwall, and it was the only thing that they could make because it was like, out in the open. And I was living with my mom. I was like, mom, if you make me watch the depressed fishermen one more time, I will become more depressed than all of them and hang myself. Like, I just. I cannot.

[Co-Host]

Who wants to watch that?

[Main Host]

There was nothing else we could watch, but I think they were the only people who could make television in the whole of the kingdom at the time. But I'm so glad that we have not yet reached the era where. Where people are making TV shows about being in lockdown, because that will finish me off.

[Co-Host]

No one will watch that.

[Main Host]

Do not make it or just wait till I'm dead.

[Co-Host]

Thank you.

[Main Host]

That is all we have time for this week. But there are lots of very scary disaster scenarios out there, not just dramas about lockdowns. We didn't even have time to tell you about the bornavirus, which is a retrovirus that makes horses go wild and smash their skulls into walls. And then there's mad cow disease and its human equivalent, cjd, which is practically unstoppable and makes holes in your brain. There's also epidemics of zombifying drugs like fentanyl, crocodile, and flakka, which make people aggressive, unpredictable, and superhumanly strong. And there's also all sorts of invasive parasitic nightmares in the animal kingdom. But thankfully, barring some crazy evolutionary fluke, any large scale epidemic in humans is likely to stay on the silver screen. Knock any wood. Or your head if you're not near any wood. I'm not doing that shit again.

[Co-Host]

So that's it, guys. That is our shorthand on zombie viruses and just hope it we leave it at that.

[Main Host]

Wash your hands.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Main Host]

Don't breathe.

[Co-Host]

Happy birthday.

[Main Host]

Leave the bats alone.

[Co-Host]

All that. Stay out of the caves.

[Main Host]

Bye Bye.

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[Main Host]

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And Doug, there's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual. Even if it means sitting front row at a comedy show.

[Liberty Mutual Male Voice]

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[Liberty Mutual Female Voice]

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[Liberty Mutual Male Voice]

Yeah, the bird looks out of your league.

[Liberty Mutual Female Voice]

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