The Kidnapping of Chloe Ayling: Sex Slave or Scammer? | #441

Summary

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RedHanded Podcast #441

The Kidnapping of Chloe Ayling: Sex Slave or Scammer?

Release Date: March 19, 2026
Hosts: Suruthi Bala & Hannah Maguire

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Episode Overview

This gripping episode dissects the sensational case of Chloe Ayling, a British glamour model whose 2017 kidnapping in Milan sparked massive media frenzy and public skepticism. The story, with its outlandish elements—fake photo shoots, mafia-style plots, and dark web sex slave auctions—raised a single, persistent question: Was Chloe a true victim, or a cunning scam artist exploiting the dark side of internet fame? Suruthi and Hannah dive deep into the facts, media smear campaigns, public biases, and courtroom revelations to untangle the truth behind Chloe’s unimaginable ordeal.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Stage: Chloe’s Ambitions and Worldview (03:05–11:10)

• Background: Chloe Ayling, a 20-year-old single mother from South London, aspired to celebrity status via glamour modeling, influenced by Page 3’s infamy and icons like Katie Price.
  • “Chloe wasn’t content with your bog standard local catalogue gigs. Chloe wanted social media, stardom and to be a household name.” – Hannah (07:08)
• Page 3 & British Tabloid Culture: Hosts reflect on the era of topless glamour models in mainstream media, now replaced but not necessarily surpassed by online adult content.
  • “Wasn’t it wild when we as a country had Page Three and nobody really saw a problem with it?” – Hannah (11:10)
  • This cultural context sets up the deeply biased way the media and public would later view Chloe.

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2. The Kidnapping: Unbelievable Ordeal Unfolds (19:04–38:24)

The Trap Is Set (19:04–22:06)

• The “Glamour Shoot” Setup: Chloe is lured to Milan for a modeled shoot, all arranged via seemingly legitimate channels and prior disastrous attempt in Paris (foiled by a terror attack).
• Initial Abduction:
  • Chloe arrives alone at a “studio”—it’s dead silent, then:
    • “A gloved hand suddenly clamped over her nose and mouth. Chloe couldn't breathe... another man appeared in front of her... holding a syringe... then everything went black.” – Suruthi (22:06)
• Captivity & The Black Death Group Myth (25:56–32:12):
  • Her captor, “MD” (later revealed as Lucas Herber), spins a wild narrative: she’s been targeted by a mafia group called Black Death, trafficked through the dark web, her auction already live.
  • Fantastical claims of being “level 12 out of 20” operative, tiger-owning clients, and sinister “rules” (e.g. mothers are off-limits).
  • “It was basically the plot of Taken.” – Suruthi (27:33)
  • The hosts note the Bond-villain infodump as evidence for skepticism.

Negotiation & Stockholm Dynamics (32:12–47:20)

• Ransom Demands: Chloe is told her release requires $300,000. She suggests wealthy friends, but they raise only a fraction.
• Psychological Manipulation:
  • “MD seemed happy to keep Chloe entertained... telling her exploits... as casually as if he was describing a video game.” – Suruthi (36:43)
• Uneasy Trust:
  • “MD trusted that Chloe wouldn’t run... in return, Chloe trusted that MD wouldn’t hurt her.” – Hannah (44:18)
  • An emotional pivot: Chloe avoids outright rejection, plays along with MD’s fantasy, delays, and ultimately ensures her survival through compliance.

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3. The Bizarre Release & Immediate Fallout (47:20–62:26)

• Release Orchestrated: MD claims he’ll cover most of the “ransom,” Chloe must pay $50,000 within a month—by monetizing her survival story.
  • “What kind of kidnapper just lets their hostage go with some sort of IOU note?” – Suruthi (47:20)
• Surreal Scenes:
  • Strolls through the village shopping for trainers; must pretend to be MD’s girlfriend in public, under threat of being killed by invisible mafia operatives.
• Arrival at the Consulate:
  • MD walks her in, plays “friend” role. Chloe ultimately breaks cover and tells staff the whole story.
• Police Skepticism & The Crucial Lie:
  • Chloe omits the village trip from her statement; CCTV later shows her with MD looking “cosy,” fueling doubt.
    • “How can we believe anything you say?” – Prosecutor (54:15)
  • Her flat affect, awkward press conference, and quick return to modeling are seized upon as ‘proof’ she’s a fraud.

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4. The Media Maelstrom & Public Pillorying (62:26–67:55)

• Tabloid Backlash: Chloe is cast as an attention-seeking liar, using the trauma for fame.
  • “Of course, she’s not a real victim because she gets her tits out for cash.” – Suruthi (62:17)
  • Headlines like “Kidnap Page Three Girl made it all up” proliferate, despite police support for her story.
• TV Grilling Example:
  • Piers Morgan accuses her of lying on Good Morning Britain; Chloe appears unruffled, monotone.
    • “...if Chloe thought she was going to win people over, it absolutely blew up in her face.” – Suruthi (65:24)
  • The hosts analyze how Chloe's demeanor, youth, and class worked against her in the court of public opinion (“the Amanda Knox effect”).

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5. The Criminal Case & Theories Explored (67:55–85:41)

The Facts Come Out (67:55–74:58)

• Herber’s Trial:
  • Strong evidence (digital searches, ketamine in Chloe’s hair, lack of connections to real traffickers, MD’s own admissions) points to a lone, obsessed fantasist attempting a criminal scheme, not Mafia-level operation.
  • Notable Moment:
    • “His password was twat twat1.” – Suruthi (69:41)
  • The Black Death Group: More internet urban legend than real criminal cartel.

Possible Explanations Discussed (77:38–85:41)

• Theory 1: Lucas Herber was a real trafficker, Chloe a victim destined for slavery (discounted for logistical and evidentiary reasons).
• Theory 2: Herber was obsessed, concocting the plot to become Chloe’s “hero” and seek a relationship and/or money—hosts lean heavily toward this.
  • “He'd probably read about Stockholm Syndrome… that’s how you form like an unbreakable bond with a woman that can’t be undone—you kidnap them.” – Hannah (87:02)
• Theory 3: Chloe was in on the whole thing (no evidence of collusion, no pre-abduction communication found, potential explanations for behavior fit trauma, not complicity).

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6. Judgment, Legacy, and Rehabilitating the Narrative (85:41–End)

• The Role of Media & Neurodivergence:
  • Later, Chloe is diagnosed with Autism Spectrum Disorder, which explains aspects of her demeanor and flat emotional affect under duress and in interviews.
    • “That diagnosis explains why she can come across as unemotional in a way that people find hard to relate to...” – Hannah (91:08)
  • “Interpreting the calm demeanour that Chloe showed as a sign of the absence of trauma is a mistaken mechanism.” – Judge Ilio Mancini Pini (91:30)
• Ongoing Stigma: Despite legal vindication, Chloe’s reputation remains overshadowed by doubt—her “antiheroine” status fixed in public memory.
• Final Reflections:
  • “What people have is just vibes... They’re like, I don’t, I don’t like how this feels... That’s hardly proof of anything.” – Suruthi (84:19)
  • “Herbert had been googling Chloe Ayling and Black Death gang and how to administer drugs. I’m certain... he was completely obsessed with her.” – Hannah (86:21)
  • Both hosts, after extensive research and reconsideration, are convinced Chloe was not involved in the plot.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Suruthi, on the surreal narrative:
  • “It was a story so outlandish it was almost impossible to believe.” (04:09)
• On British tabloid hypocrisy:
  • “The very same tabloids that had booked Chloe for Page Three... were now launching a vicious crusade to drag her down.” – Suruthi (62:26)
• On problematic survivor narratives:
  • “If somebody told me this story, I probably wouldn't believe them either. But her question was always, just because the story sounds crazy. That's what happened. So how is it my fault?” – Suruthi (66:57)
• Final summation:
  • “What we thought at first was that he was either a genius or an absolute idiot. We’re tempted now to exclude the first.” – Chloe’s lawyer (74:58)
• The autism diagnosis and aftermath:
  • “Chloe should have been given the grace to react in a way that felt right to her without being eaten alive.” – Suruthi (91:30)
• Conclusion:
  • “Take a bow. That is so difficult.” – Hannah (92:50)

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Key Segment Timestamps

• Chloe’s background and modeling ambition – 03:05–11:10
• Setup to kidnapping in Milan – 19:04–24:31
• The myth of Black Death gang – 25:56–32:12
• Stockholm syndrome and psychological manipulation – 44:18–47:20
• MD’s convoluted release scheme – 47:20–49:34
• Chloe’s press conference and initial media reaction – 60:11–62:26
• Tabloid & social media pillorying – 62:26–67:55
• Herber trial and evidence against mafia theory – 67:55–74:58
• Theories and host conclusions – 77:38–88:30
• Neurodiversity reveal and final legacy – 89:56–end

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Flow & Tone

This episode balances dark humor, skepticism, and empathy. The hosts self-deprecatingly interrogate the “unbelievable” aspects of Chloe’s story, confront the misogynistic and classist biases that colored media coverage, and ultimately champion a nuanced, survivor-centered understanding. Their tone is irreverent but thoughtful, always questioning mainstream narratives and the dangers of trial by tabloid.

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For Listeners

Even if you haven’t followed the Chloe Ayling case, this episode is a masterclass in dissecting modern “media trials,” survivor psychology, and the pitfalls of snap judgment in viral crime stories. The hosts’ deep-dive research, combined with personal insight and an unvarnished take on British tabloid culture, makes for a thoughtful and rich listen.

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Transcript

[Suruthi]

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[Hannah]

Bongiorno listeners I did 200 Days of Duolingo Italian and then I woke up one day and I was like I don't care about this anymore and I stopped doing it.

[Suruthi]

I never would have known from your confident Bonjour.

[Hannah]

It's all fallen out of my head. My friend's mum was here from Sardinia and she doesn't speak much English at all and I know so deeply in my soul how it feels to just be in a situation where everyone is speaking a language that you understand. Understand, but you can't interject. But like. Essentially what I'm trying to say is I have been around more Italian than usual recently because of Michael's mum. Nothing. Nothing. I answer in Spanish.

[Suruthi]

It's.

[Hannah]

It's completely gone.

[Suruthi]

Well, that's the only Italian word you have to say today.

[Hannah]

Okay. Do you promise?

[Suruthi]

Apart from Places Milano. Ah, fine. Other than that.

[Hannah]

That one I can probably manage.

[Suruthi]

We could do it.

[Hannah]

Okay. We two podcasters, both alike in dignity, have a tale that absolutely gripped the UK back in the summer of 2017. And it is, if you hadn't guessed from my Shakespeare, Anne Cerruti already saying it, in Fair Milano, where we lay our scene. A 20 year old glamour model called Chloe Ayling calmly walked into the British consulate and reported her own kidnapping.

[Suruthi]

I am obsessed with this case.

[Hannah]

Chloe claimed she had been snatched from a fake shoot by a mafia style criminal network, placed for sale into sex slavery on the dark web and kept hostage for a week. But after realising her abductor had a bizarre Romeo and Juliet fantasy that cast her as his unwilling leading lady, Chloe managed to convince her hapless captor to let her survive beyond the final curtain.

[Suruthi]

It was a story so outlandish it was almost impossible to believe. But Chloe, she was already gearing up for an encore. Just hours after touching down in London, she was smiling and posing for the paparazzi in her mum's front garden, calm and seemingly unruffled by her tragic ordeal. Now, of course, the bloodthirsty British press swiftly smelled a rat. Was Chloe Ayling truly a victim or was this just a big fat publicity stunt of Shakespearean proportions? Nearly a decade and a conviction later, doubt still lingers over Chloe's sensational story. So today we are digging through the chaos, the clickbait and the media smear campaign to uncover what actually went down. They say all the world's a stage, but in this case, the line between reality and fiction is blurrier than ever. I'm Saruti.

[Hannah]

I'm Hannah.

[Suruthi]

And this is red handed. And the unbelievable case of Chloe Ayling.

[Hannah]

Let's start by meeting our key players. Leading lady is of course Chloe Ayling. Born and raised in Coldstone, South London. That is where Linda Casey is from. Isn't that funny?

[Suruthi]

That's very weird. That's the other episode we're gonna record today for Patreon. Bonus episode. That's very weird. And actually I went for dinner with my friend the Other day and she's like, we're moving out of like, you know, peak London. We're looking at Colston. And I was like, I have no idea where that is. And now I do.

[Hannah]

There's a word for when you learn a new word and then you start hearing it everywhere.

[Suruthi]

Or a new term. Yeah, I don't know what that is. Maybe that's the word I'll know and then I'll keep hearing that. Anyway, it doesn't matter. We're in Coulston, apparently, A lovely little town, which is why she wants to move there.

[Hannah]

Lovely little town. It's Croydon. Well, to be fair, when I was researching Linda Casey for that documentary I did, that's what people say. Is that like, it's quite nice, it's country enough. But it's 20 minutes into Croydon.

[Suruthi]

Sure, it looks like a nice little market town.

[Hannah]

I'm sure it's fine. I just think all market towns are the same. Yeah, because they are. But what do I know? Anyway, Chloe grew up in an average working class home with her Polish single mum, Beata. And Chloe did well at school and she had plans to study law. But after giving birth to her son Ashton in her late teens, Chloe swapped the textbooks for cameras and opted to pursue a career in modelling instead of, she signed up with Supermodel, which sounds really ominous. An agency run by lawyer part time DJ Phil Green. Chloe's mum and mates weren't exactly sold on Phil, who to be fair, had a bit of a creepy uncle vibe. Any part time dj, I would say.

[Suruthi]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

But Chloe trusted him to look after her and to raise her profile because this girl wasn't content with your bog standard local catalogue gigs. Chloe wanted social media, stardom and to be a household name.

[Suruthi]

I think this is the era when there was definitely like a cohort of girls, women who were going into the glamour industry who wanted, I guess, to replicate what Katie Price Jordan had done and, you know, say what you want about her, she is most definitely a household name.

[Hannah]

Sure is. She's a lot smarter than people let on.

[Suruthi]

I'm just thinking of. I didn't witness this and neither did you, but we went to the podcast show last year or the year before in London and the rest of our team went to go see Katie Price do her session. I'm sure even outside of the uk people know who Katie Price Jordan is. Right? You guys know who she is. So yeah, they went to go see her, do her, talk about her new podcast and they were like, yeah, it was wild. It was like exactly what you would expect from her. And then at the end, there was a guy in the audience who stood up, you know, when they were, like, doing the Q&As. And he was like, I haven't got a question, but I have written a rap or a poem or something. I can't remember which one it was for you. Katie, can I read it out to you? And the team were like, she just looked him dead in the eye and said, no. Which you've got to love.

[Hannah]

I do. I love it so much.

[Suruthi]

Nah.

[Hannah]

And may I remind you of the period of my life where I sold her diamante bridles at horse shows.

[Suruthi]

You don't have to remind me. I think about it. It's my Roman Empire. I think about it at least once a week.

[Hannah]

I've got a picture somewhere.

[Suruthi]

Find it.

[Hannah]

I'll find it.

[Suruthi]

So that's what I think Chloe is going for. That's what her ambition is.

[Hannah]

She wants me to sell bridals for her at Olympia.

[Suruthi]

And she wants slightly unhinged men to write her poetry that she can just rebuff slightly. But we never heard it.

[Hannah]

It might have been a masterpiece.

[Suruthi]

Exactly. How would we know?

[Hannah]

And while she was too short at 5 foot 6 to make it on the haute couture Runway scene. Tell that to Kate Moss. She's five' four and from Croydon.

[Suruthi]

She's five' four. Yeah.

[Hannah]

She's tiny. That's the whole reason that, like, she was such a huge deal, obviously, before the coke, because she was tiny and she was the first model to, like, super duper make it who wasn't massively tall.

[Suruthi]

See, I have a bit of a. I don't really have much of a chip on my shoulder about my height, but this weekend I was doing some calculations and I now do have a chip on my shoulder about my height, because apparently, if you take. And obviously this is very like, oh, she's five.

[Hannah]

Six. Sorry, Kate Moss is five' six, five' six.

[Suruthi]

Fair enough. This is obviously very generally speaking, but typically if you take the parents of a child, you can work out on average. Obviously, there are anomalies, the height that the children are going to be.

[Hannah]

Right.

[Suruthi]

And I worked it out and I should be taller.

[Hannah]

Yeah, but your mum did sniff a lot of petrol.

[Suruthi]

Yeah. And electrocute herself when she was pregnant with me. I'm outraged. I've been Shortchanged at least 2 inches. Shortchanged at least 2 inches. I worked it out. Do you know how you work it out? You. You add Dad's height plus Mum's height. And then if it's a girl, you minus 5 inches and then divide it by 2. If it's a boy, you add the heights together, you add five inches and divide it by two and that's the height that your children will be. And I was like, I should be 5 4. And I'm not outrageous.

[Hannah]

You could have a few of my inches. I don't need them.

[Suruthi]

Please. If only it worked like that. Anyway, let's get back to this.

[Hannah]

Chloe was five' six, just like Kate Moss. And she also had other assets. She had gorgeous long blonde hair, pretty smile, curvy figure. She was practically built for your dad's favourite bit of his morning routine. Page three. Wasn't it wild when we as a country had page three and nobody really saw a problem with it?

[Suruthi]

This is what I was thinking. I feel like that's definitely. Yes. But then I'm like, it's way worse, the shit we have now. And we all, like, pretend that's okay.

[Hannah]

What, the paedophiles.

[Suruthi]

The paedophiles and like, onlyfans. And like, that's just there.

[Hannah]

But that wasn't for sale at the newsagent.

[Suruthi]

But it's like, for sale. Like, on this phone. Everyone has. Do you not think I was thinking the same thing? I was like, page three. For our non UK listeners, let me just explain in case they are wondering what the fuck we're talking about. Starting in the 1970s, page three was a thing where national tabloids like the sun and the Daily Mirror feature topless female models on, you guessed it, the third page with a cheeky little teaser on the front cover. And it was definitely in the uk, like a cultural phenomenon. Everyone in this country who is above the age of. I don't even know how old are people now, above the age of 20, knows what page three is.

[Hannah]

I think it might be more than that.

[Suruthi]

25. Oh, no. Oh, no. Okay, let's just keep going.

[Hannah]

Look, I no longer celebrate the passage of time. I think it's unchic. So just meet me where I am.

[Suruthi]

So, okay, I can tell you when it was scrapped. It was scrapped in 2019. So, yes. 25.

[Hannah]

Okay.

[Suruthi]

So, yeah, it was scrapped in 2019. And yes, I think there is definitely a thing when it was scrapped of like, oh, my God, I can't believe we allowed that to happen. And I get it, because it's. It was literally just like. You'd go get petrol and there'd just be like.

[Hannah]

I think that's the difference for me. Like, onlyfans is consumed in the privacy of your own home. Whereas page three was like in your face, you know, couldn't go anywhere.

[Suruthi]

No, you're right, it couldn't. And you'd often see it where there'd be like in the stands outside and like somebody would have ripped a couple of the pages and then there's just like a pair of tits that everybody's looking at but you know, harmless probably now given all the hardcore pornography that children are consuming. So yes, this is where Chloe got her first big break. Two years before it was scrapped. So in 2017 this was Chloe's first ever professional gig. And that was no mean feat. According to her agent Phil Green, part time DJ in the glamour modelling world, being a page three girl was like being on the COVID of Vogue except during page three of the Sun. And like men who have got like sausage roll grease on their hands.

[Hannah]

Oh no, that's what's happening in my head. I also like, I can only think of Phil Green as the Topshop guy. Oh, so she's got budget Phil Green.

[Suruthi]

Oh see in my mind he's Phil from Phil and Kirsty, which like poor Phil. Anyway, so admittedly the reporting in page three in these newspapers wasn't quite as chic as Vogue reporting. Yeah, in big, big air quotes. But Chloe's first shoot did have this charming little write up. Curvy Chloe is making her page three debut today and what a frilly thriller she is. The 19 year old Surrey sweetie is studying to be a lawyer but has always had a secret yearning to appear in briefs in your favorite paper.

[Hannah]

It's not bad copy. Whoever like. It's pretty good really. Thriller, that's quite good.

[Suruthi]

Now you might be cringing. We're not. We actually quite appreciated that and Chloe certainly did because for her this was a stepping stone to the fortune and fame that she had been dreaming of. Chloe actually went on to do several page three shoots and rapidly became one of Phil's most requested models. Which opened the door to more well paying gigs earning her up to £600 a day. At just 19 years old, Phil, Chloe was flying high. But she wanted more. I am fed up with influencers telling me I need a complicated 10 step skincare routine just to take care of my skin. That's why I've defected to Oneskin. Their products aren't about hype or fancy packaging, they're based on real science. Oneskin's research boffins discovered OS1, a game changing peptide that works to slow down the skin's aging. Process at the source. Every time I do my new routine, I'm basically deploying a crack squat to repair damaged cells, support collagen production and strengthen my skin barrier. Born from over a decade of longevity research, OneSkin's OS1 peptide is proven to target the visible signs of aging, helping you unlock your healthier skin. Now as you age, for a limited time, try OneSkin with 15% off using code redhanded at OneSkin co. Redhanded that's 15% off at OneSkin Co with Code Redhanded. After your purchase, they'll ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them we sent you Red Handed is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, Monetary magicians. These are things that people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds because Progressive offers discounts for paying in full, owning a home and more. Plus you can count on their great customer service to help you when you need it. So your dollar goes a long way. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save on car insurance, Progressive Casualty Insurance company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations. These days I'm all about quality over quantity. Buy nice over buy twice. I've had way too many of my clothes wear out after less than a year of wearing them. So now if it's not well made and versatile, it's not coming in. That's honestly why I love Quince. The fabrics feel elevated, the cuts are thoughtful and crucially the pricing actually makes sense. Quince makes high quality wardrobe staples using premium fabrics like 100% European linen, 100% silk and organic cotton poplin. These are versatile, well made pieces that make getting dressed simple without paying some crazy markup. Quince works directly with safe ethical factories and cuts out the middleman. So you're not paying for the brand or for fancy retail stores, you're just paying for quality clothing right now. Go to quince.comredhanded for free shipping and 365 day returns. That's a full year to wear it and love it and you will now available in Canada too. Don't keep settling for clothes that don't last. Go to quinc.comredhanded for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.comredhanded alright guys, if you've been listening to the show then you will know that after a long and sluggish winter I am very excited to nourish my body from the inside out to match those hopefully sunny days ahead and Factor is the easiest way to eat well, even on a busy schedule with fully prepped meals. Designed by dietitians and crafted by chefs, their meals include quality ingredients like lean proteins, colourful veggies and whole foods without any pesky refined sugars or artificial sweeteners. My friend tried the Jalapeno Cheddar Lime chicken and loved it. The meals are ready in just two minutes with no planning or stress. Perfect for busy people like me who care about nutrition but don't have time to waste. Head to FactorMeals.com redhanded50off and use code REDHANDED50OFF to get 50% off and free breakfast for a year. Offer only valid for new Factor customers with code and qualifying auto renewing subscription purchase. Make healthier eating easy with Factor.

[Hannah]

So when a request came through her agency for a solo Glamour shoot In Paris in April 2017, Chloe leapt at the chance. The gig involved modelling custom sized motorcycle leathers and the photographer, an Italian guy called Andre Lazio, had asked for Chloe specifically after not Topshop. Phil Green did his usual checks, which was a quick Google search, and said everything seemed legit. Chloe was excited to explore a new city and finally see the Eiffel Tower.

[Suruthi]

Erg Boo apparently was voted the most disappointing tourist attraction in the world.

[Hannah]

Yeah, well those Japanese businessmen all get Paris syndrome because it's so disappointing, don't they? Miserable the fact that all her expenses would be paid for with a hotel stay before the morning shoot. That was just the cherry on top of the croissant. But Chloe's trip was interrupted when chaos hit the city of Le Mur. A policeman was shot on the Champs Elysees in a terror attack, so metro stations were shut and there was a heavy police presence everywhere. Advised to wait it all out in her hotel, Chloe didn't feel particularly freaked out. In those days she felt invincible, like nothing bad could ever touch her.

[Suruthi]

Still, fate had a spanner in the works for Chloe. The next morning she got a call to say that the shoot had actually been called off. The studio had been raided in the fallout of the terrorist incident, so instead of hair and makeup, Chloe was being bundled straight to the airport after a hiccup with her prepaid taxi. The photographer, Andre, a skinny guy in sporty sunglasses, came to her rescue and covered the fair. They chatted for a few minutes and Andre said that he hoped they would be able to reschedule the shoot. Paris not working out was a bit of a bummer, but Chloe wasn't the sort of girl to wallow. Instead she turned it to her advantage, notching up a few tabloid column inches back in the UK with her account of being caught up in a terror attack.

[Hannah]

Cut to a few months later, when another email pinged into Phil Green's inbox. The leather sheet was back on and this time it was going to be at Andre's new studio premises in Milan. While Chloe was buzzing, her mum, Beata was a bit less enthusiastic. She didn't trust Phil and she couldn't shake the feeling that something was wrong. She begged Chloe not to go to Italy, but with stars in her eyes, Chloe went anyway. Just like in Paris, she was put up in a swanky hotel and the shoot was booked for the next day. Everything seemed totally familiar and abovebought until the morning of Wednesday 12th July, when everything changed. And what we've got for you now is Chloe's account of what happened next.

[Suruthi]

After a quick breakfast at the hotel, Chloe got a taxi to the address that she'd been given. Confused about which building to go into, she rang the number on Andre's emails and asked for directions. A guy calling himself Daniel answered, telling Chloe to head inside and wait for Andre. As Chloe made her way in, something felt a bit off. Photo studios are usually noisy and full of movement, but this place was dead silent. Spotting a handwritten sign that just said the word Studio, Chloe approached the next door. And then a gloved hand suddenly clamped over her nose and mouth. Chloe couldn't breathe. She kicked and struggled. But then another man appeared in front of her. Clad in a black ski mask and holding a syringe. She watched the needle sink into her wrist. And then everything went black.

[Hannah]

The next thing Chloe knew, she felt like she was underwater. Her mouth was taped and her hands were cuffed. She groggily realised that she was enclosed in something rubbery and thick. Chloe heard a foreign language radio blaring. And that's when it hit her. She was bundled up inside a bag in the boot of a moving car, dressed in only the pink velvet bodysuit that she'd put on under her clothes that morning. Chloe was sweating so much that the tape slipped from her mouth easily. She started shouting as loud as she could, hoping to get the attention of the driver in case they didn't know she was in there. And then the car stopped. Two men in ski masks unzipped the bag and stared down at Chloe before pouring sparkling water in her mouth. Chloe didn't know what they wanted, but she realised they were trying to keep her alive. Bizarrely, at one point, one of the men removed his mask and got into the boot with her, almost spooning her. Chloe desperately tried to ask him where they were going and who the driver was, but he simply told her in broken English that he didn't know. This guy was strangely gentle with her, pulling up her top to cover her modesty and calling for the driver to stop so they could undo her cuffs for the rest of the journey.

[Suruthi]

Finally, after several hours, the car slowed to a stop for a final time. The unmasked man ordered Chloe to climb back into the bag or be drugged again. Paralyzed with fear, Chloe complied and let them carry her into a house. It was dank and cold, the shutters were down, so Chloe had no idea where she was. She was led up a set of concrete steps to an upstairs room with a sleeping bag on the floor and cuffed by her wrists and ankles to a wooden chest of drawers. Chloe laid on the sleeping bag for what felt like hours. She heard male voices arguing downstairs and the sound of a door slamming. And then a man walked in who Chloe didn't recognise at first. He told her, I don't know if you remember, but we briefly met in Paris. And then it dawned on Chloe. It was Andre the photographer. Smirking, he said his name was actually MD and he definitely wasn't a photographer. None of them ever are. Don't trust them. He sat on the bed and started telling Chloe what had apparently gone down. And buckle up everyone, because this is going to be a wild fucking ride.

[Hannah]

I do often wonder. Often is strong. I have previously had this thought, what happened to the Page three photographers? Where did they go?

[Suruthi]

Paparazzi's.

[Hannah]

Yeah, yeah, you're right. They all became part time DJs.

[Suruthi]

Probably.

[Hannah]

Anyway, the mysterious MD told Chloe that he was a high ranking operative of an Eastern European mafia organization called Black Death Group. Yeah, if they tell you. No, they aren't.

[Suruthi]

And look, the problems start immediately, right now. Who to blame for the problems? We're going to come to later, but we're going to stick with the story for now. What I would say at this point is if I had been abducted by a bunch of men and they start taking their masks off, I'm like, I'm dead. Yep, I'm dead. No one takes their mask off if they're not going to kill you later. Unless something weird is going on, which we'll get back to.

[Hannah]

Unless it didn't happen.

[Suruthi]

Or they're nuts. So many questions, let's continue.

[Hannah]

So Black Death Group operated through the deep web, which is even worse, even shadier. Than the Dark Web. And they were involved in all sorts of horrible stuff. Drugs, arms deals, assassinations and obviously sex trafficking. Le Classique and Chloe listened in horror as MD casually explained that the group would routinely sell kidnapped girls between 14 and 20 years old. Virgins sold for the most and most of the buyers were wealthy Saudi Arabians.

[Suruthi]

Yeah, so basically it's the plot of Taken.

[Hannah]

So it would appear.

[Suruthi]

I'm not saying this doesn't happen. No, no, I'm sure it absolutely does fucking happen. I just find it odd that you would kidnap somebody, take your mask off and then Bond villain style, explain to them your entire business. Yeah, I don't know why.

[Hannah]

Including age range of girls you traffic.

[Suruthi]

Just a little flip chart, little pointer. I don't know. I don't know why this is happening.

[Hannah]

Here is my passport. This is my mum's maiden name. Anyway, once these girls were sold, the Black Death group would pass these girls around as sex slaves until inevitably the men who bought them got bored of her. At which point the girl would most likely be fed to their pet tigers.

[Suruthi]

Yeah, that's not us making a joke, that's what Chloe says MD told her.

[Hannah]

Right.

[Suruthi]

But then MD revealed that there had actually been a bit of a cock up with Chloe's abduction. He grumbled that the stupid Romanians, the two goons who had brought her to this house, had misunderstood his instruction that Chloe must not be taken with Chloe must be taken. And so they took her.

[Hannah]

It's always someone's first day.

[Suruthi]

Now, according to md, the Black Death had a rule that mothers shouldn't be trafficked. But before you go thinking this is some sort of nice code of ethics situation, it was actually just because having a baby quite significantly devalues the worth of a sex slave on the black market.

[Hannah]

That I believe.

[Suruthi]

Yes. So Chloe's head was absolutely spinning as she tried to process everything she was hearing. If it was all just a mistake, then surely she could just go home, right? Well, no, because they've told you their entire business and their entire criminal organisation and they've taken their masks off. But there was a bigger problem because MD told her wasn't going to be that simple. Chloe had already been advertised. She was officially up for sale.

[Hannah]

And what MD showed Chloe next was complete nightmare fuel. She had her own advert on the Black Death Group site selling her like an old top on vinted, wrapped in the Black Death Group's signature creepy branding, which is like Plague doctor clip art that someone's put together on Microsoft paint.

[Suruthi]

Yep, they really lean into the Plague Doctor as their logo of choice. Again, why are you showing her the advert? Why is any of this happening?

[Hannah]

Why are you advertising your criminal enterprise with a logo?

[Suruthi]

I mean, you've got to stand out in a busy people trafficking crowd. They're putting it all on the deep web. The Saudis are sat at home checking it out and they're like, oh yes, the Plague Doctor. They, they do good girls, apparently. And I know we're making light of this, I genuinely believe that this sort of horrible, horrible thing happens. Of course it is. It's not even a question, it's just what's actually going on here is the question.

[Hannah]

The ad featured chilling photos of Chloe lying unconscious and drugged on the floor, along with her name, age and her measurements. And right there in black and white. The advert stated that Chloe was up for sale at a sex slavery auction on Sunday, with a starting bid of 300,000 US dollary dues. Chloe had just five days left of freedom before she was going to be sold into sex slavery.

[Suruthi]

But then came a hint of hope in the form of MD himself. He claimed that when he saw Chloe's advert, he was furious about the mess and had personally stepped in to handle it. Now, he told Chloe, while he didn't usually deal with the girls himself, because that was far beneath his pay grade, in this case, he was taking a stand with everything he said. MD positioned himself as Chloe's ally, the one person in the fearsome Black Death group who was willing to fight her corner. And while he said he wanted to facilitate her release, he claimed that it was sadly already too late to simply pull Chloe from this auction. Her advert had already generated high interest and they couldn't risk upsetting their very valuable clients. The price had been set and it had to be paid.

[Hannah]

Luckily, Maryland had a solution up his creepy sleeve. He told Chloe that if her people could raise the starting bid of $300,000, he'd let her go. Chloe's heart sank. She knew there was no way that her agent or her family could afford that kind of money. So at MD's urging, she named the three wealthiest blokes she could think of in her circle. These were her investment banker friend called Rory McCarthy, celebrity agent David Read, and Paul Baxendale Walker, former porn star and owner of Loaded magazine. It was a desperate stab in the dark, but it was all Chloe had. Maryland told Chloe that he would pass these names onto her agent, Phil Green, with the hope of getting the ball rolling on raising that money. All there was left to do was wait.

[Suruthi]

Now while all this is going down. Back in the uk, Chloe was due to land at Gatwick on Wednesday night. But of course she never arrived. Her frantic mum called Phil Green, Chloe's agent, who didn't take it that seriously at first, shrugging that maybe Chloe's phone had died and maybe there'd just been a delay with her flight. And in that single interaction, I think I honestly understand why Chloe's mum wasn't Phil's biggest fan. Like Chloe's gone off on her own. She's still very young, she's only 19, she's gone off on her own to a solo shoot in a different country and he's just like, meh, dunno. But the next morning things took a terrifying turn. Phil got an email from MD that was absolutely riddled with typos but had a crystal clear message Chloe was being held for ransom. Phil panicked and got the police involved who took over his computer and communicated with MD from then on pretending to be Phil. Part time dj, part time agent, full time creep.

[Hannah]

Meanwhile, the Italian police investigation kicked off in Milan with the coolest sounding crime fighting duo ever, ever. Serena Ferrari.

[Suruthi]

That's a great name.

[Hannah]

And Gianluca Simontacci. It's okay. So Serena Ferrari and Gianluca Samantaci were the lead investigators on the Chloe case and their search yielded immediate red flags. At the building where Chloe was dropped off, they found her phone, shoes and clothes. To no surprise, a few basic inquiries revealed that it wasn't a legitimate photo studio at all. Following the paper trail from the building rental, they discovered that the phone number had been registered with a Polish passport in the name of Daniel Zawada. But after checking with Polish authorities, it quickly became clear that the idea was fake. So the police, no matter how good their names, had no leads as to where Chloe was. And time was running out. That auction approacheth.

[Suruthi]

Yeah. Now in Captivity, Maryland finally got a reply from Phil to his ransom email. All it said received. It was a gut punch for Chloe who felt like Phil clearly didn't give a shit about her. Even MD was shocked by what he perceived as a lack of urgency for from Phil the agent. So we fired off multiple follow up emails demanding more cash as she counted down to when she would be auctioned off. Chloe could only pray that somehow her camp would scramble up the funds before it was too late. And while they waited, MD seemed happy to keep Chloe entertained. So he doesn't just leave her in this room and go about his nefarious Black Death business. Because remember He's a very high up member of this criminal organization. He just hangs out with her in this farmhouse he's got her locked up in. He would spin endless yarns about his exploits in the notorious Black Death group. He even boasted about his extensive military training and claimed that he'd risen through the ranks to become a level 12 operative out of 20, giving him special status. MD also told Chloe that he was an assassin who had killed thousands of people, delivering his news as casually as if he was describing a video game.

[Hannah]

Thousands?

[Suruthi]

Thousands.

[Hannah]

You're doing too much.

[Suruthi]

And as he left a plate of food by Chloe's head, he let her into another little secret. His method of choice was poisonous.

[Hannah]

Lame. If you're gonna choose, obviously. Actually, what would you do if I

[Suruthi]

was going to be an assassin?

[Hannah]

If you were going to be an assassin, what would be your calling card?

[Suruthi]

Mm, actually, I'd probably pick poison.

[Hannah]

Poison dart.

[Suruthi]

That's a good one. But then everybody can see the dart. And they know.

[Hannah]

Yeah, I want them to know.

[Suruthi]

Oh, you want them to know?

[Hannah]

I want them to know that it was me.

[Suruthi]

A big red, fluffy feather. Big red.

[Hannah]

It's big red.

[Suruthi]

So, yeah, while Chloe's listening to all this, she's thinking that it's this weird combination, right? It feels like MD Is simultaneously trying to scare her, but also trying to impress her.

[Hannah]

But according to Chloe, no matter how afraid she was, she never once let it show on her face. Even MD Was surprised by how stoic she was, remarking that she was handling it better than the other girls who would scream and tearfully beg for mercy. Because if there is one thing that Chloe Ayling is not, it's a crybaby. Ever since she was a kid, she hated showing emotions in front of people. And she definitely wasn't about to start now. So throughout her entire ordeal, Chloe remained calm, cool, and placid. And while that composure may well have held the key to her survival in that tiny room, back in the real world, it might just prove to be Chloe's undoing.

[Suruthi]

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[Hannah]

And as far as kidnappers go, Maryland was almost gentlemanly. He let Chloe take showers and use the bathroom on her own and gave her a fresh set of clothes. He treated her with a level of respect that felt deliberate, often reminding her that the Romanians wouldn't treat her in the same way. If she'd been a bitch and kicked off, Maryland claimed that he would have let them shove her in the barn outside like they normally did with the other girls. Maryland made Chloe feel like she had a special level of protection. And as rough as it all was, it could have been a hell of a lot worse if he wasn't there. And so slowly, an uneasy sort of trust began to form between the pair. MD trusted that Chloe wouldn't run or raise the alarm, and in return, Chloe trusted that MD wouldn't hurt her. So when he asked if she wanted to swap the sleeping bag for the bed beside him, Chloe accepted. From the second night of her captivity, they slept side by side under separate blankets,

[Suruthi]

and after a few days, Chloe clocked something else about her captor. Maryland didn't just see her as a hostage anymore. He liked her. He really liked her. MD told Chloe she was beautiful and once even leaned in for a kiss, Chloe instinctively recoiled. But she didn't scream or get angry. She says that she knew outright rejection could tip the balance in a very bad way for her. Instead, Chloe stalled and said she just wasn't in the right headspace. But after she was released, she'd be more open to seeing where things went. MD apparently lit up at this. Chloe had given him hope that after this was all over, he might just have bagged himself a glamour model girlfriend.

[Hannah]

It's like bad fan fiction.

[Suruthi]

Yeah. And at that moment, for Chloe, everything shifted on its axis. Suddenly, this wasn't just a kidnapping, it was a love story. Romeo had found his Juliet. Well, at least in his delusional mind. As for Chloe, she suddenly realised that if she ever wanted to see her mum and her son ever again, she would need to keep MD's twisted fantasy alive. It was a decision that would get her a lot of flak down the line. But Chloe has always maintained that she wouldn't change a thing about what she did in captivity. Because it had worked.

[Hannah]

Back in the uk, the days stretched on with fading hopes. By Saturday morning, the ransom negotiations had stalled completely and all Phil Green could offer was a measly £20,000. And that had been put in by Chloe's wealthy banker mate, Rory. After submitting the offer, they were met with radio silence. The day of reckoning loomed closer. Dread set in. At around 3am on Sunday, another email landed from MD with just three short words. She's gone, mate. Officers feared that they had completely fumbled the bag on this tricky case. Had Chloe been sold? Or worse, was she already dead?

[Suruthi]

They had no idea that in that ramshackle house, Chloe was still very much alive and she could almost taste her freedom. With big old fluttery heart eyes, MD told Chloe that he had a new plan to get her out. He said he would deal with his superiors in the Black Death Group, selling several of his own properties worldwide and paying a substantial sum in exchange for Chloe's freedom. The only snag? Chloe would have to stump up $50,000 herself to be paid within a month of being back in the uk. Now, to us outsiders, that sounds insanely suspicious. What kind of kidnapper just lets their hostage go with some sort of IOU note?

[Hannah]

One that doesn't exist.

[Suruthi]

But Chloe was so desperate at this point that she says she just didn't question anything ever helpful. Maryland even had an ingenious suggestion for how she could raise the money. He reckoned that the story of Chloe's impossible kidnap would give her tons of Exposure in the form of modelling gigs and showbiz work that could comfortably cover her debt. Mental. Absolutely compelling to Chloe's exhausted brain. Yeah. So she accepted the terms and committed herself fully to MD's utterly bonkers plan.

[Hannah]

According to MD, the last thing they needed was a release letter from his superiors in the Black Death group laying out the terms of Chloe's release. Because if there's one thing that large scale mafia like organisations love, it's paperwork.

[Suruthi]

Mad for it.

[Hannah]

A very meticulous paper trail of what they're doing.

[Suruthi]

Gotta get the admin right.

[Hannah]

So while they waited for it to land in his inbox, MD said that he'd take Chloe to the local village shop to buy a pair of shoes. On Sunday morning, Chloe took her first faltering steps outside the ramshackle farmhouse where she'd been cooped up for almost a week and froze. Stretched out before her were the Italian Alps, A view so perfect it could have been a desktop background. Under different circumstances, she'd have been blown away. That's when MD admitted that he had told her a teensy little white lie. They weren't in Germany, they'd never left Italy. But he did drive down to the village anyway and MD told Chloe that she had to act like his girlfriend. He warned that the Black Death agents were watching their every move and they would kill her if she caused a scene. It was a surreal experience for Chloe as they strolled through the village like an ordinary pair of young lovers, feeling the sun on her skin, trying on trainers, eating fresh fruit from a market stall. None of it seemed real. Chloe said that she felt hypnotised, like a machine being controlled. The only thing she could focus on was complying with MD's commands and playing her role perfectly.

[Suruthi]

After returning to the house, the long awaited release letter finally came through and it gave the go ahead for Chloe to be set free. But like MD had warned, there were a hell of a lot of T's and C's. Chloe had to pay 50k in Bitcoin within a month of being let go, which she would finance through media exposure and selling her survival story. She was also expected to promote the Black Death group in her tell all interviews, which, like why? Why as like a secret mafia organization, would you want somebody to promote your group? I don't know what that even means, but you know, I haven't read the paperwork and if that's not confusing enough, things only get worse. The number one rule was that Chloe must not under any circumstances involve police. Think about that for a second. How was she supposed to go around telling everybody what had happened to her, this tragic ordeal? She needs the story she needs like to get the headlines about being a survivor of a sex trafficking ring. But she's also not allowed to have any sort of legal investigation take place. But Chloe didn't have time to worry about the logistics. This was it.

[Hannah]

In the early hours of Monday 17 July, six days after she was first snatched from the empty warehouse, Chloe Ayling was on her way back to Milan. During the long car ride from the countryside, Maryland explained what needed to happen next. He would drop her off a 20 minute walk away from the British Consulate. She was going to go in, identify herself as Chloe Ayling, the kidnapped model, and say that she had escaped her captors and called a friend who had kindly brought her to Milan but not

[Suruthi]

stuck around to come into the consulate with her.

[Hannah]

Couldn't even be asked to walk her to the door of the British Consulate.

[Suruthi]

Yeah, I'll come pick you up but I really have got a hell of a day. I'll drop you off about 20 minute walk away, is that right? You got these new trainers?

[Hannah]

Chloe was not to say that Andy was her captor. In this version he was just a good Samaritan. But then things all went a little bit pear shaped. The journey went a lot quicker than MD expected. So they arrived in Milan at half seven, a whole two hours before the consulate opened. MD got jittery, not wanting to leave Chloe unsupervised for so long. So he took her for breakfast and then walked her to the consulate himself and he went in with her. Together they passed various layers of security including armed guards until Chloe reached the desk and declared who she was. Missing model Chloe Ayling had been found

[Suruthi]

and the consulate knew exactly who Chloe was. She was a high priority Interpol missing persons case. But they played it cool and asked Chloe to come to be interviewed in a private room alone. This rattled MD who insisted on coming with her but was of course denied. Inside a little room with the consulate staff, Chloe could see MD staring at her through the glass door and she felt herself sweating. Now at first Chloe stuck to the story that MD was just a friend who had helped her. But then Chloe says she suddenly thought fuck it and told them everything. The next thing she knew MD was being arrested by police and led away. Her six day ordeal was finally over. But now a whole new nightmare was about to begin.

[Hannah]

At the police station, Chloe was grilled for over 15 hours by Ferrari and Simon Tatci. Chloe says that this was actually the most terrifying part of the whole thing. Because while she was technically free in her head, she still felt like a prisoner. The Black Death agents were still out there. At any moment, they could find out she'd spoken to the police and broken their golden rule. Without MD she had no one to protect her from them. Chloe felt like she'd signed her own death warrant. And then came a huge curveball that Chloe had never even considered the possibility that not everyone might believe her.

[Suruthi]

Because you see, Chloe had left out a pretty important detail in her police interviews. She didn't mention the trip into the village to buy shoes with MD and now the stony faced prosecutor wanted to know why she'd lied about it. Because, remember, she's being held captive. He takes her down to buy trainers, he takes her back to the farmhouse, they wait for the release letter to come from, you know, head office and then he brings her to the consulate. So that is a separate trip that she doesn't tell the police about. But investigators had found the CCTV of the pair of them in the village. And they'd also spoken to the lady from the hiking shop where they had bought the trainers, who said that they just seemed like a normal couple. Chloe says she didn't mention this trip at the time because she'd already been held for hours and questioned again and again by this point. And she said she knew it would trigger a lot more difficult questions that she just didn't have the energy for. She just wanted to go home. But the police were asking her, why hadn't she run? How could she explain how cosy they looked together? Deep down, Chloe probably sensed that if she had told them about this particular trip, it probably would have made her story seem even flimsier. And she was right. Her omission cast a giant black cloud over her entire account, with the prosecutor even asking her, how can we believe anything you say? It hit Chloe like a ton of bricks. She hadn't even thought about the possibility of people not trusting her version of events. And now a single pair of trainers threatened to destroy everything.

[Hannah]

Chloe was forced to stay in Milan for over a week while the investigation continued. She was moved to a safe house, a woman's refuge hostel with grim conditions that made her feel even more like a prisoner, even though officially she was classified as a victim. And even after a kind woman from the British Consulate took her under her wing and helped her find a secure apartment, Chloe was constantly on edge. She was convinced that Black Death was still out there and could strike at any moment. All she wanted was to go home. But first she would have to return to the scene of her captivity. The police took Chloe back to the farmhouse, a dilapidated old place in the tiny hamlet of View near Turin. And they asked her to show them where everything had happened. True to form, Chloe stayed calm and collected. But her body language gave away how shaken she was to be back there. Chloe recalled every single detail of the house with impressive accuracy. It all checked out. And that was the turning point for the Italian authorities. Finally, they felt confident that Chloe was telling the truth. But there was one last hurdle before Chloe could go home. She bravely spoke at a pretrial hearing for MD on the 4th of August, where the judge praised her testimony as extremely precise, specific and detailed.

[Suruthi]

This pretrial hearing is where Chloe began to realise for the first time that maybe things weren't quite what they seemed. She'd always seen MD as her saviour, the guy who had stepped in after her bungled abduction and fought to free her at great personal cost. But now, in court, she heard a very different story. Chloe learned that the photos of her drugged at the Sham studio were taken on MD's phone. So not quite the dumb Romanians that had done it. And then, slowly, the sickening truth fell into place. MD was actually one of the masked men who had taken her. He hadn't come to save her. He was the reason she was in the house in the first place. And there was one more question Chloe was finally about to learn the answer to. Who actually was the mysterious md?

[Hannah]

Turns out he was a Polish guy called Lucas Herber, a computer programmer by trade. He was 30 years old and happened to live near Birmingham. So obviously the million pound question was, was he really a notorious dark deep web criminal? And we will get to that when we get to his trial. But short answer, no. No, he was not. It looked as if he had fabricated the whole Black Death web of lies as a part of some bizarre fantasy in kidnapping Chloe. The only other person involved was his brother, Michael, the unmasked guy from the car. For Chloe, this was a mindfuck of epic proportions. She wasn't being hunted by international criminals, she wasn't in some sort of high stakes mafia plot. She could finally stop looking over her shoulder. Or at least that's what she thought, because Chloe had a big shitstorm coming her way.

[Suruthi]

Back in London, Chloe didn't have time to enjoy her reunion with her loved ones. She'd literally just stepped off the plane when the paparazzi were already swarming her mum's Front lawn. According to Chloe, this is not what she wanted. If it were up to her, she'd have kept the whole thing a secret. Now that might be hard to believe since we know that Chloe wanted to be famous, but it does make sense that even someone who wants fame may not want that fame for the worst trauma they had ever endured, according to her. But ultimately, Chloe didn't have much choice in the matter. The story had already broken in Italy due to their custom of sharing high profile case information with the media, so it was only a matter of time before it hit the UK press. Peering out of the windows of her mum's modest semi, it looked like that time was now. So on the advice of her banker friend Rory, Chloe decided to give them what they wanted. A statement and some snaps, in the hopes that they would finally leave. She stepped out into the garden dressed in a skimpy vest top and tiny shorts. Her hair was voluminous and she was immaculately made up. She looked every inch the glamorous Page three girl and not what anyone had expected from a traumatised kidnap victim.

[Hannah]

Chloe read out a short statement where she described the terror of her ordeal. Her words were powerful, but her delivery didn't quite match. We've got it for you now.

[Suruthi]

I've been through a terrifying experience. I feared for my life. Second by second, minute by minute, hour by hour. I am incredibly grateful to the Italian and the UK authorities for all they have done to secure my safe release.

[Hannah]

She sounded monotone, flat and unaffected, almost like it was a rehearsed script which, like if I was giving a press conference, I would practice, yeah, I would

[Suruthi]

absolutely plan what I was going to say. And I think the way she speaks and she uncomfortably sort of laughs at points, this is what was sort of like setting people on edge a bit.

[Hannah]

And also like as a nation, if I had to pick a type of person that would not be graciously received by the British public, it would be a Page three model.

[Suruthi]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

After she finished speaking, Chloe did what Chloe does best. She started posing. She grinned. For photos. Treating the ad hoc press conference like a Glamour shoot, Chloe says that she was just so relieved to be home that she couldn't help smiling. But people's bullshit detectors were a ringing and from that point on, there was a massive red flashing question mark above Chloe Ayling and her story.

[Suruthi]

The tabloids, as you can imagine, were brutal from the get go, aggressively pushing the narrative that Chloe was a fraud and the whole thing had just been a publicity stunt. Journalists even tracked down her Ex, a man named Connor Keyes, who only fanned the flames further by claiming that he basically raised their son single handedly, while Chloe, quote, just loves the camera. Chloe's career as a glamour model was also taken as evidence that she must be fame obsessed, vapid and morally bankrupt. The general consensus was basically, of course, she's not a real victim because she gets her tits out for cash.

[Hannah]

We love that one. Yeah.

[Suruthi]

And look, we'll talk about theories at the end, but I think it's important to remember she's 19 years old.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Suruthi]

And she is at the centre of a media feeding frenzy when this story breaks. Like, can you think of a more exciting story for the press to talk about? She handles it badly, but she's got fucking part time DJ Phil Green in her corner. It's all just handled so, so poorly. I think it's also not lost on you guys listening. It certainly isn't lost on us. The incredible level of irony here that the very same tabloids that had booked Chloe for Page three repeatedly were now launching a vicious crusade to drag her down. They even dredged up the CCTV footage of her walking with Herbert in that village and twisted it into evidence of this whole thing being a hoax, despite the fact that Italian authorities now completely believed Chloe. And yeah, there's a lot of headlines, but here's one actual headline from the Daily Star, Kidnap Page Three Girl made it all up. They're just saying that without any evidence. That's just their theory that they're printing as a headline now. The Times later called out the misogyny and classism at play. And Chloe herself still reckons that she would have been believed had she been like a teacher instead of a Page three model. So cast in a role she couldn't run from, Chloe found herself as the villain of the piece.

[Hannah]

But Chloe Ayling ain't no quitter. She decided to fight back and try and take control of the narrative, dumping her old agent, bargain bin Phil Green, who she rightfully blamed for not doing adequate checks. To protect her, Chloe joined forces with flashy celebrity agent Adrian Sington and decided that it was time to tell her side of the story. And hey, if she could capitalise on her 15 minutes of fame, however unfortunate, and make some money in the process, why not? It's quite literally the only way the game is played. As Adrian put it, she could either become the poster girl for modern slavery or she could make money. And Chloe, unsurprisingly, chose the latter. She signed a 30k deal with the Mail On Sunday for an exclusive tell all interview before embarking on a whistle stop tour of all the major morning TV shows, including a particularly vicious grilling by Piers Morgan on Good Morning Britain.

[Suruthi]

But it'll also come out that you

[Hannah]

lied to the police.

[Suruthi]

I brushed it off.

[Hannah]

I didn't lie. We did lie.

[Suruthi]

I brushed it off. We didn't brush it off.

[Hannah]

You lied.

[Suruthi]

I was tired.

[Hannah]

I just said, I don't know how. This is your idea of brushing it off. You lied.

[Suruthi]

Well, the police still believe me. They asked you why shouldn't have a few random people.

[Hannah]

My point is it doesn't help you. You don't think we should be able to judge you or if I was

[Suruthi]

just a 30 year old woman, like not a model, do you think people would have the same opinions? I think if you're going to conduct

[Hannah]

media interviews where you're being paid money

[Suruthi]

and you're doing a book for thousands

[Hannah]

of pounds before there's even been a trial, I think we're perfectly entitled to

[Suruthi]

ask you difficult questions.

[Hannah]

Yeah, that's fine. I can answer all of them.

[Suruthi]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

So you're not being unfairly judged?

[Suruthi]

No, I don't mind, I can answer. You're sitting here because you're promoting yourself, right? Yeah. I think doing the rounds of the TV shows like this, if Chloe thought she was going to win people over, it absolutely blew up in her face. In fact, the more publicity she did, the more it fueled the narrative that she just did this all for attention and the story was fake. And look, we just listened to a clip there of her on Good Morning Britain. That's pretty much the same thing that happens again and again. She's very young still and she's speaking very, very quickly and without much emotion. And I think it's like, it's unusual for us to see people who are not media trained in these circumstances. And like, I'll be honest, I don't mean this a shade. Like often people you see on social media, often people you see going on these sort of shows, even if they're not media trained, are very charismatic, are very confident. She just isn't those things. And I think that works against her so significantly. People are just like, she kind of speaks in a weird way. She kind of presents herself in a strange way. She speaks very, very, very quickly without much emotion. And I think it just. Is that indicative of her lying or is that indicative of her just being a bit of an odd person? Anyway, we'll talk about it more later. But this really didn't help her in Fact, opinion polls claimed that over 90% of viewers had, quote, very little sympathy for Chloe. And online, the hate train against her showed absolutely no signs of slowing. Twitter trended with sick memes of people filming themselves in suitcases, begging for ransom. And even some models that she'd once considered her friends joined in. Chloe was furious at the injustice of it all. She knew it was a bizarre story. She even says in one of these interviews, if somebody told me this story, I probably wouldn't believe them either. But her question was always, just because the story sounds crazy. That's what happened. So how is it my fault? Chloe hated how she was constantly expected to explain Lucas Herbert's convoluted psychotic schemes as if she was the one who was lying. In the end, Chloe realised that she couldn't fight fire with fire and expect to come out looking like the good guy. All she could do was hope for a conviction back in Italy. And she hoped if that came, it would prove once and for all that she had been telling the truth.

[Hannah]

And that time came in December 2017, when the trial of Lucas Herber began in Milan. Despite his lawyers trying to force her, Chloe wasn't required to attend, since she'd already testified at a hearing in August. And the key thing you need to know here is that Italians do not fuck about when it comes to kidnapping cases. According to Chloe's lawyer, Francesco Pesce, it's easier to get away with murder. Kidnap cases come with hefty prison sentences of 20 to 25 years if found guilty. So in this case, unsurprisingly, the prosecution went in hard on Lucas Herber and left nothing to chance. Over 50 witnesses for the prosecution presented evidence in court that overwhelmingly corroborated Chloe's story of her abduction. Most damningly, Chloe was found to have been given a near lethal dose of ketamine from traces in her hair, along with needle marks on her wrist. A digital forensic investigation proved that Lucas had ordered black ski masks and a large black holdall bag in the weeks before the kidnapping. And he'd researched how to create ricin and cyanides, which are both lethal poisons and if you've seen Breaking Bad, you know can be made at home. And he also had made multiple searches for Chloe Ayling Black Death and sex trafficking. The Herbert brothers took out a loan of about $30,000 to finance the kidnapping. They rented the studio space and several cars and the farmhouse. In a phone call with his mum from prison, Lucas told her to dispose of his car and log into his online accounts. To delete incriminating evidence. And his password was twat twat1.

[Suruthi]

Sure, sure. Maybe, you know, maybe that was like a set of guinea pigs he had when he was younger.

[Hannah]

What's twat twat in Polish?

[Suruthi]

I don't know. And as we hinted at before, it turned out that Lukas Herbert was decidedly not the high ranking mafioso that he had told Chloe he was. Shocking. I know. His laptop proved that he had created multiple email accounts and websites himself, including the supposed Black Death site with Chloe's auction details. And while there are rumours out there that the Black Death Group is a real group, somewhere out there on the deep dark web, they actually seem to be more of a Reddit urban legend than a confirmed mafia. An Interpol investigation found no evidence of them sex trafficking girls online. Although admittedly the Deep Web is a nightmare to police and its sites are unindexed. But we can safely say that even if it is real, even if the Black Death Group is real, Lucas Herber is not one of its members. Most likely, Herber had let his imagination run wild and used it as inspiration for his little plot. So whether he and his brother Michael actually thought the ruse could earn them some real money, or if it was just some sort of elaborate role play, we'll talk about it in a bit. I'm honestly not totally sure. I think it possibly is both of those things, but whatever it is, one thing we do know, Lucas Herber was a certified nobody. I am fed up with influencers telling me I need a complicated 10 step skincare routine just to take care of my skin. That's why I've defected to One Skin. Their products aren't about hype or fancy packaging. They're based on real science. Oneskin's research boffins discovered OS1, a game changing peptide that works to slow down the skin's aging process at the source. Every time I do my new routine, I'm basically deploying a crack squad to repair damaged cells, support collagen production and strengthen my skin barrier. Born from over a decade of longevity research, we OneSkin's OS1 peptide is proven to target the visible signs of aging, helping you unlock your healthier skin. Now, as you age, for a limited time, try OneSkin with 15% off using code redhanded at OneSkin co. Redhanded, that's 15% off at OneSkin Co with Code Redhanded. After your purchase, they'll ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them we sent you. These days, I'm all about quality over quantity. Buy nice over buy twice. I've had way too many of my clothes wear out after less than a year of wearing them. So now if it's not well made and versatile, it's not coming in. That's honestly why I love Quince. The fabrics feel elevated, the cuts are thoughtful, and crucially, the pricing actually makes sense. Quince makes high quality wardrobe staples using premium fabrics like 100% European linen, 100% silk and organic cotton poplin. These are versatile, well made pieces that make getting dressed simple without paying some crazy markup. Quince works directly with safe, ethical factories and cuts out the middleman. So you're not paying for the brand or for fancy retail stores, you're just paying for quality clothing right now. Go to quince.comredhanded for free shipping and 365 day returns. That's a full year to wear it and love it. And you will now available in Canada too. Don't keep settling for clothes that don't last. Go to quince.comredhanded for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.comredhanded

[Hannah]

so, with the Black Death theory debunked, what did Lucas have to say for himself? Well, his testimony was a rambling mess that regularly contradicted itself. At one point he claimed he was dying of leukaemia and had staged the kidnapping to raise money for treatment, only to admit later that that wasn't true. So it's fair to say that the jury were taking everything Lucas had to say from then on with a massive pinch of salt. Overall, Lucas echoed the tabloid gossip to claim that the whole thing was a hoax cooked up between him and Chloe for the purpose of boosting her career. He claimed to have met Chloe through Facebook in 2015 when they started dating. Their plot was inspired by a film called By Any Means, which looks absolutely shit, so we didn't bother. But according to IMDb, it's about a C list celebrity faking their abduction as a stunt. Lucas insisted that he was madly in love with Chloe and did everything to support her goal of becoming famous. But here's the thing. The prosecution found zero evidence of any digital communication between Lucas and Chloe before the kidnapping. And if it was on Facebook, they would have. Yeah, so it was all total bullshit and the jury saw right through him.

[Suruthi]

On 11 June 2018, Lukas Herber was found guilty of kidnapping and extortion. Prosecutors described him as a narcissist and a fantasist who was obsessed with Ms. Ailing and sentenced him to a whopping 16 years and 9 months in prison. His brother Michael, who was an accomplice in the kidnapping and transportation of Chloe to the farmhouse, was also convicted in 2019 and got 16 years and eight months. The judge highlighted that the high sentences were a reflection of the grave risk posed to Chloe's life. The ketamindos and the suffocation in the boot of the car could absolutely have killed her. Later, the sentences were reduced. Lucas ended up getting 12 years and Michael to five. So what the hell was all this about? Are we talking money? Obsession? Both? Honestly, we'll probably never know for sure. We can certainly talk about it. But Lucas is sticking to his guns, Chloe's sticking to hers. What is clear is that Lucas Herbert's behaviour was utterly bumbling and incredibly bizarre, as Chloe's lawyer put it. What we thought at first was that he was either a genius or an absolute idiot. We're tempted now to exclude the first. The police are certainly convinced it's the second. Whatever Lucas Herbert's intentions, it turned out to be a spectacular amateur hour flop.

[Hannah]

You might think the conviction would have put the rumours about Chloe's innocence to bed. An Italian High court found the Herbert brothers guilty of her kidnap. On paper, at least, it was finally proven that all of that did happen to her. But the public weren't going to fully listen to that, not even a little bit. While Chloe felt vindicated by the ruling, she says that the hate never went away. In fact, she was criticised even more for what she did next. Keen to ride high on the publicity wave that she had built, Chloe cashed in by publishing a book about her story, which is actually quite an interesting read. And she signed up for the next season of Celebrity Big Brother less than two months after Lucas was found guilty. Needless to say, it didn't help with the public's perception of her as an attention seeker. And as we've seen so many times before, the court of public opinion can be way more persuasive than any judge's ruling. So even with the law on her side, Chloe will always be remembered as the girl who faked a kidnapping.

[Suruthi]

So let's now really look at the evidence and consider the possible theories and what we think could have happened to Chloe Ayling. I think one theory is that Lucas Herbert was a people trafficker and he was really going to sell Chloe Ayling into sex slavery. And he's telling the truth. Maybe he wasn't part of this, like, big, elaborate Mafia gang, but maybe he really was going to Sell her. Maybe he really did feel bad for her and then he let her go. Sure, let's call that theory one. Theory two, Lucas Herbert was absolutely obsessed with Chloe Ayling and kidnapped her in order to spend time with her, become her rescuer and, and hero. And also maybe get a bit of a payoff. So maybe he thinks like Chloe leads him to believe in order to survive. You know, not now, but when I'm out, maybe we'll see about the two of us being together and also a hefty little 50,000 pound payoff. Or theory three, Chloe was in on it all along. And the whole thing was this scheme cooked up between her and Lucas Herbert and his brother. They thought they were going to get some money, maybe out of her rich banker friend Rory, who would feel bad for her. And then when that didn't work, they shift gears to saying, we'll just get the money out of, you know, selling your story. We'll split it and we'll be together. And maybe Chloe's lying to Lucas and she was just using him. So let's talk about it. I don't think that Lucas Herber, if we're talking about theory one, had the connections to sell Chloe into sex slavery. It's not just like actually selling something on vintage. Like you're going to need a network of people that want to buy this victim that you've abducted. Like a bunch of sadistic Saudis, for example. There's no evidence whatsoever that he had that kind of network, so I don't know. And if he was going to do this, why not stick to the plan? Apparently he was going to get at least $300,000 for her, which is a lot more money than I guess Chloe probably made, even selling her story. Now the idea that Lucas Herber just fell in love with Chloe during her captivity and therefore that's why he let her go well, after she'd seen his face. Seems a bit implausible if he really is this sex slave selling Mafioso, man. Even if it is a solo Mafioso. I don't know, it just seems implausible for people that would be working in the sex trafficking business

[Hannah]

when it comes to Chloe and her involvement or how much she knew. It does seem weird that the authorities could find no record of any communication between Herbert and Chloe leading up to the abduction. They had only met in Paris once. Was that when they concocted this whole elaborate plot? And then were they smart enough to never speak to each other again until Milan?

[Suruthi]

Yeah, you see that a lot Online of people being like, so what if there was no evidence of communication between the two of them? Maybe they had burner phones that the police never found. Or maybe they had met in Paris and planned the whole thing then. And then, you know, they just, they just like, go ahead with it in Milan. Like, I don't know, it seems pretty like you need more text than that just to get people together for a dinner. Do you know what I mean?

[Hannah]

Or was Paris just when Herbert met and became obsessed with Chloe? Chloe did have to admit that she and Herbert had been Facebook friends years before, but she was trying to make it as a social media model. So basically she accepted any friends requests that came her way. Yeah, and this could also back up the idea that Herbert had been stalking Chloe for some time before he met her. And there was ketamine in her hair, injection sites on her wrists, and ligature marks around her arms and her legs. Those could have been part of the ruse. And even the fact that it was a near lethal dose of ketamine could just be chalked up to stupidity and recklessness. It doesn't necessarily mean that Chloe didn't know.

[Suruthi]

And a lot of people point to, like, the video interviews of her that you see on Good Morning Britain and things like that where she seems quite sleepy and people are like, she looks like a druggie. She looks like she's a person who takes ketamine. She looks like a person who takes drugs. Like, I'm not sold by the fact that there was ketamine in her system as to the fact that it was a kidnapping. Now look, let's talk next about the idea that Chloe was compliant, like with the shoe shopping trip or her sleeping next to Lucas Herbert in that bed. A lot of people point to the fact, like, look, she's in on it, she's in on it. It's all just a hoax. But, like, surely that's just classic survival tactics.

[Hannah]

Yeah, that doesn't do it for me at all.

[Suruthi]

To me, it doesn't prove that Chloe was involved. She's also explained that she was completely scared to run off because people will say, well, when you took you into town for that shoe shopping thing, like, why didn't you just signal to the woman who was selling you the shoes or try run away like something you are in a town. But she explains that she was too scared to run off because firstly, he had told her, black Death operatives are watching and someone will kill you if you try to run away. And also she makes the very fair point that there was a Language barrier for her. She felt like if I do run away from this man, I need to be able to find somebody who can speak English to understand the batshit crazy story I'm about to tell them. So I don't know. Again, her not running away and seeking help doesn't really prove it to me either. So, next up, it begs the question, why did Lucas Herbert take her to breakfast before the consulate and take such a big risk? Right. He says, I'm taking you to the consulate. We're going to go there. You're going to, you know, stick to the story. Why take her for breakfast? I think this kind of fits with the theory that he's obsessed with her. Like, if he's obsessed with her, then maybe this was just part of the kind of girlfriend experience that he was looking for. Maybe he wasn't ready to end their time together. Maybe he just wanted one more breakfast with her where he can hang out with her. You know, the fact that he tells her to pretend to be his girlfriend, just two people walking around, there's no need to pretend to be in a romantic relationship. They could have just been two people hanging out together. But the fact that he tells her to do that, I kind of feel like there's something he's getting out of it. Right.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Suruthi]

And look, I do have to say that there were some people who did come to the trial who said that they could hear the couple laughing together when they were having breakfast, which obviously, you know, points to the idea that Chloe was in on it, blah, blah, blah. But I don't know, again, is that just Chloe trying to keep him sweet, or are they really just that stupid that they're sitting in a cafe together laughing their heads off?

[Hannah]

It's not enough. No, it's not enough of a gotcha. I don't think that she was laughing.

[Suruthi]

No, no. Like, traumatized. Exactly. And also, I'm sorry. Like, was he just laughing? Like, eyewitnesses are terribly terrible at remembering things.

[Hannah]

Yes.

[Suruthi]

So I don't know. There just isn't that much evidence, in my opinion, pointing to Chloe having been in on it. Like, everyone who points to her having been in on it, just the whole thing being a hoax. They're just going mainly off her behavior and the idea that she longed for fame.

[Hannah]

She absolutely is a victim of the Amanda Knox effect, I think. Yeah, she's just not a. She just doesn't translate well on camera.

[Suruthi]

No, she comes across very strangely. She does come across a bit disinterested. Disinterested. She does give off like sleepy drug eyes. None of those things help her. But really all people have is she doesn't sit right with me. The way she's speaking. Why didn't she run away when she had the opportunity? And she was a model who was always seeking fame. Those are the three things that people put together and say that she was in on it. That's hardly proof of anything. And there's hardly enough proof there at all.

[Hannah]

Like, and all of those things can be true and this thing still can have happened to her.

[Suruthi]

Yeah, exactly, exactly. Just because she then does capitalize on her 15 minutes of fame doesn't mean it didn't happen.

[Hannah]

Which she's also, she's a child, first of all. And secondly, that's what everyone will have been telling her to do because it is in their interest that she did that. Because they're literally agents and they take 10%. Like that isn't proof of anything.

[Suruthi]

No, it's not.

[Hannah]

And if I was her in that situation and you know, had been so let down by bargain bin Phil Green and then this other gold standard celebrity agent appears from the mist and is like, I will help you. I've done this before.

[Suruthi]

Of course. Yep, of course. Absolutely. And I think you also have to link together her desire to milk the 15 minutes of fame and get exposure with also her trying to combat the narrative that was already being put in the tabloids that she wasn't telling the truth. Like that was also her seeking out that fame and going on these different chat shows and doing the book was also her only way to tell people that she was telling the truth.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Suruthi]

So it's a bit of a like self fulfilling prophecy.

[Hannah]

And Herbert had been googling Chloe Ayling and Black Death gang and how to administer drugs and make them at home. I'm certain that he was completely obsessed with her. He abducted her and he wanted to be her hero. I like sold. I buy it.

[Suruthi]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

And also that's probably why he didn't rape her or force her to do anything explicit with him during captivity. Maybe he believed that if he treated her well, she would fall in love with him for real.

[Suruthi]

He had her for six days, like completely isolated and yet he doesn't do that. I think he's in it for the long run.

[Hannah]

I agree. I really agree. I think he was holding out for a real relationship. He'd probably read about Stockholm syndrome, which we misunderstood, not we as in society. He has probably read about that and been like, oh, that's how, that's how you form like an unbreakable bond with a woman that can't be undone. You kidnap them.

[Suruthi]

Yep.

[Hannah]

And then their brain does it for you.

[Suruthi]

So yes, that's 100%. I agree with that. I agree with that idea that I think he is like hoping that Chloe will be like eternally grateful to him and they'll go off and ride off into the sunset together. Some people could say that the fact that he doesn't physically harm her in any way, he's even like Chloe says, he's very gentlemanly with her. He never sexually assaults her, he never does anything, he never tortures her. Some people I have seen also point to that saying, well, that's clear evidence that Chloe was involved. What sort of man abducts a woman and then, you know, who is this unhinged and who you're saying is obsessed with her but then has a self restraint not to harm her in any way? Like if anything, some people say that seems too unbelievable. The thing that makes more sense is that they're in on it together and that's why he never hurts her.

[Hannah]

Okay.

[Suruthi]

Yeah. And look, honestly, if I'm being totally honest, when I first heard about this case, I definitely thought that Chloe was involved.

[Hannah]

I've had my moments.

[Suruthi]

Yeah, yeah, I definitely thought that Chloe was involved. But the more I have read about it, the more like, you know, we've gone through all of the videos of her speaking about it and you know, read her book and written this case. I don't think so. I don't think so. I do not think she was involved. I think those who point the finger at her have absolutely no evidence. Like I said, they only have vibes. They're like, I don't, I don't like how this feels. I think personally the blame for all this lies squarely at the door for the British tabloid press. They set her up to be the villain of this whole story. Now of course we shouldn't take everything we hear at face value. It's human nature to question things. And Chloe's story was pretty fucking crazy. I understand why people couldn't believe it. The idea that she might be making this whole thing up was certainly an enticing narrative and we all absolutely lapped it up. But the media were shamelessly biased against Chloe. Tabloid journalist Nick Peaser has tried to defend their work by claiming the stories were just exposing the holes in the story and then letting readers make up their own mind. No, it wasn't. The headlines were she made it up.

[Hannah]

So come on.

[Suruthi]

Yeah, so no, I think they just wanted a juicier story than this woman actually being kidnapped. And the juiciest story was she was kidnapped and she was fucking in on it. So, no, I've. Bullshit.

[Hannah]

For Chloe, the media backlash left far more lasting scars than the actual kidnap. But in recent years, there has been a gradual shift on how her story is talked about. In 2024, the BBC aired a drama based on her story, and Chloe was an advisor for it, with writer Georgia Lister saying that she hoped the show would vindicate Chloe to viewers. And in 2025, Chloe starred in her own BBC documentary, My Unbelievable Kidnapping. Perhaps the biggest thing to come out of that documentary was the reveal that Chloe has recently been diagnosed with Autism Spectrum Disorder. That makes a lot of sense.

[Suruthi]

Yes. And I think it also makes sense when you put it in place with people saying, Lucas Herbo is not a genius. He is not a genius. And he's telling you, you know, he's part of this mafia thing. How did you not question any of that? When he's telling you there's Black Death operatives everywhere who are going to shoot you, how are you believing that? I think if she does engage with, like, black and white thinking of, like, somebody is telling me this thing and I literally believe it to be true, I can understand why she's just like, yeah, why would I question it? This man has literally abducted me. I'm in a country, I don't know. Why would I question it? And I think if she is autistic, it makes even more sense. And I think it also makes sense how she presents herself in some of those interviews.

[Hannah]

And for Chloe, the pieces of the puzzle all fell into place. That diagnosis explains why she can come across as unemotional in a way that people find hard to relate to, as well as her flat affect and a tendency to smile at inappropriate times. Chloe says she gets why people find it hard to understand her because she's only just beginning to understand herself.

[Suruthi]

But as her childhood best friend Tony says in the documentary, this diagnosis shouldn't be the reason people suddenly decide to believe Chloe's story. Now, that's a really fair point. Yeah. Because Chloe seems so outwardly strong, it's easy to forget that what she went through was a genuinely traumatic experience that would have also affected her responses. As the case's judge, Ilio Mancini Pini, says, interpreting the calm demeanour that Chloe showed as a sign of the absence of trauma is a mistaken mechanism. Neurodivergent or not, Chloe should have been given the grace to react in a way that felt right to her without being eaten alive.

[Hannah]

Today, Chloe is 28 years old and still posing up a storm as a model. The experience changed her forever, making her less willing to trust strangers. She doesn't like to work with people she doesn't know, instead preferring to focus on her own social media content and onlyfans where she gets to call all of the shots. Still, Chloe refuses to see herself as a victim, living by the mantra that nothing can touch her after what she's faced. She survived not just a kidnapping, but a full blown media onslaught where she was cast as the antiheroine in her own story. And honestly, fucking get it. Chloe, take a bow. That is so difficult.

[Suruthi]

Yeah, I've gone on a big journey with this story.

[Hannah]

I think I have as well. I can see why people are suspicious. And it is one of those cases that can sit in the back of people's minds as like they half know about it. Yep. And then it's like, oh, but didn't she, didn't she fake it? And that then becomes the conversation. And so few people are going to be like, well, no, actually here are all of these very like specific points and even if you do know those things, you don't say them because you don't want to be a unbearable know it all.

[Suruthi]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

So it just evolves as this like half remembered thing that defined her for far too long.

[Suruthi]

Absolutely. You see enough pictures of her face on the front page of tabloids with she faked it.

[Hannah]

Yes.

[Suruthi]

Why would anybody question, well, what was the actual evidence that she faked it? There isn't any. So hopefully we have set the record straight today. We may be wrong, maybe Chloe fucking did. But I'm not satisfied at all that there is enough evidence to persuade me that that's the case.

[Hannah]

No, I'm not either.

[Suruthi]

No. So that's it, guys. Thank you very much for listening. We hope you enjoyed that and learned something. And we'll see you next week for another episode of Red Handed.

[Hannah]

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