In this episode of REEF Roundup we sit down with Oxford legal scholar Sarah Levy and legendary frontline conservationist Captain Paul Watson to discuss their new book, The Only Flag Worth Flying. In it they challenge the assumption that law enforcement belongs solely to the nation-state, arguing that when governments abandon their duty to protect marine ecosystems, direct action by non-state actors becomes both justified and necessary.

This conversation explores environmental law, the weaponization of the legal system against conservationists, and the extents to which some people are ready to go in order to save our oceans.

Key Topics Discussed:

The Illusion of Protection: The difference between hard and soft law in international environmental agreements, and why treaties like the High Seas Treaty remain meaningless without enforcement.
Embracing the Pirate Identity: How historical pirates and privateers bypassed bureaucracy to achieve results, and why being a "pirate" is an appropriate response to a broken legal system.
The Post-State World Order: Examining the breakdown of the traditional rules-based order and the rising necessity for NGOs and civil society to push forward, even without permission.
Aggressive Nonviolence and Legal Precedent: Captain Watson's strategy of intervening to uphold international conservation law, such as using the UN World Charter for Nature to win legal acquittals after sinking illegal whaling vessels.
Weaponizing the Law: How the legal system, including Interpol red notices, is used by exploitative industries to target effective conservationists and whistleblowers.
The Upcoming Krill Campaign: Details on the Paul Watson Foundation's imminent expedition to confront the Norwegian and Chinese krill fishery in the Southern Ocean to provoke an international legal precedent.
The Power of the Present: Wisdom from American Indian Movement leader Russell Means on focusing entirely on doing the right thing in the present rather than worrying about the odds of winning.

About Our Guests:

Sarah Levy: An Oxford legal scholar whose work bridges the gap between socio-legal methods, indigenous rights, and environmental law. She is currently finalizing her PhD focusing on seal hunting activities in Canada.
Captain Paul Watson: A frontline conservationist and the founder of both the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society and the Captain Paul Watson Foundation. He has spent over 50 years defending marine wildlife through direct action.

Resources Mentioned:

The Only Flag Worth Flying by Sarah Levy and Paul Watson, available via Routledge and major booksellers.
The Captain Paul Watson Foundation at paulwatsonfoundation.org.
UN World Charter for Nature.
BBNJ Agreement / High Seas Treaty.