← Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey
Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey
Ep 1104 | DEBATE: Should ‘Trans’ Congressmen Use Women’s Bathrooms? | Guest: Brad Polumbo
01:06:42
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- [00:01]
Allie Stuckey
Nancy Mace is fighting for women's rights to privacy and safety in Congress by trying to pass a resolution that would protect women's bathrooms and locker rooms at the Capitol. In light of a recently elected man who identifies as a woman in Congress, we will be debating the subject today with someone who is on the other side of the issue. Also, Lake and Riley's murder has been found guilty on all 10 counts and has been sentenced. We've got the details on that coming up. This episode is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to goodranchers.com use Kodali at checkout. That's goodranchers.com code Ali hey guys. Welcome to Relatable Happy Wednesday. Hope everyone is having a great day so far. Before we get into the conversation about bathrooms in Congress, I do want to give you an update on the Lake and Riley trial. We talked about all the details yesterday. And so if you need a recap on that, make sure you watch or listen to yesterday's episode. But today, Jose Ibarra, her murderer, the illegal immigrant and Trende Aragua gang member, has been found guilty of murdering 22 year old nursing student Lake and Riley in Athens, Georgia. He was found guilty of all charges and he was subsequently sentenced to life without the possibility of parole in Athens. And here is SOP 14, count one, malice murder. I sentence you to life without the possibility parole. Count two will be vacated as a matter of operation of law. Count three vacated by operation of law. Count four vacated by operation of law. Count five, life in prison consecutive to count one. Okay, so this is very good news. We are happy to hear this. Now obviously, as I said yesterday, I would have liked him to get the death penalty. Unfortunately, the very progressive da Deborah Gonzalez, that originally charged Ibarra did not seek the death penalty. She was voted out this last election because of the anger and frustration of many Athens and Oconee county residents, even the more progressive ones. So this is really the best that we can get. I've seen some people ask me why can't he be deported and serve out his life sentence in Venezuela? And that's because there's just no guarantee that he would actually get justice in those countries. Of course, that's just not how the whole legal system works. It's not how it's set up. But also, even if it did work that way, we wouldn't necessarily want that because he would probably find his way back into the United States. This is really the only way that we can guarantee that he is not going to inflict Violence on someone else. Now this isn't really justice. Yes, the community is protected from further harm from this person, but it's not really just because God is the only one who created and therefore can define justice. And Genesis 9, 6 says that the death penalty is the only just and proportionate punishment for capital murder. And so this is less than justice. And actually this is like a pretty good deal for him. Going from what I'm sure was poverty and violence in Venezuela to coming to the United States, living in New York, getting a free taxpayer funded flight to Georgia, and then prowling around Athens, the college town, to seek a young woman to rape, finding this young woman who fought back for 18 minutes of her life according to her Garmin watch, before she was brutally murdered. And so now he's going into prison, which is kind of an upgrade. It's kind of an upgrade from the past that he's had, especially in an American prison. And so this is not really justice. But I do pray for Lakin Riley's family. I pray that they would have peace. I pray that they would find comfort in Christ. And although we would never have wanted this ourselves, we would never want someone like Lakin to be like the sacrificial lamb that is then used to change policy. We wish that our representatives would have just put in good policy that would have secured the border and would have deported him and punished him for his crimes a long time ago. I do hope that God in his mercy uses this to enact the change that we need that will prevent more Lincoln Riley's and I just found myself this morning as I was driving in because this story has just haunted me. As someone who used to live in Athens, who has family in Athens, who knows that community, I just felt over and over again the thought of. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry, Lakin, that our country failed you, that the people who are tasked to protect us failed you. I'm so sorry that you fought for 17 minutes while no one came to your aid. I'm so sorry that you had to fight for the last remnants of your dignity before you were brutally murdered. I'm so sorry that you have had to become a symbol for the dangers of illegal immigration instead of becoming a nurse. Like, I'm so sorry to your parents, I'm so sorry to your friends. I'm so sorry to this community. And even though we don't hold personal responsibility, there is this just kind of collective burden that we all carry to our. To care for our fellow citizens. Countries are like families and we should feel indignant when a fellow citizen unnecessarily loses her life because of a preventable crime committed by an illegal alien. And we've got more on this in just a second. Let me pause and tell you about our first sponsor for the day. It's We Heart Nutrition. I love We Heart Nutrition. I take their supplements every day. It's helped keep me healthy, especially in cold and flu season. I started taking them at the beginning of this year. I really have seen a big difference, not only in my health, but just in the appearance of my hair and my skin. I take their magnesium, their omega 3s, their multivitamins, their iron supplement has been a game changer. All of the ingredients in their vitamins come in the most bioavailable form and so your body really does absorbed them. And it's made such a difference in my health. And they've got supplements for women of all ages, whether you're young, whether you're post menopausal, they really do have a vitamin regimen that is just right for you. So take their 22nd quiz online and you can find the supplements that will work best for your body. Go to we heart nutrition.com code Allie for 20% off your order, we are nutrition.com code Ali Donald Trump said this on Truth Social. He said justice for Lake and Riley. The illegal who killed our beloved Lake and Riley was just found guilty on all counts for his horrific crimes. Although the pain and heartbreak will last forever, hopefully this can help bring some peace and closure to her wonderful family who fought for justice and to ensure that other families won't have to go through what they have. We love you, Lakin, and our hearts will always be with you. It is time to secure our border and remove these criminals and thugs for our from our country so nothing like this can happen again. Yes and amen. That is righteous policy. That is compassionate policy. That is mercy. That is the responsibility of our government to care for our own people for the sake of our sovereignty, for the sake of our citizens. That's what has to be done. And I am just so thankful that not only Donald Trump, but his newly appointed border czar. Who will be the border czar? Tom Homan and Stephen Miller and so many others that he's already named in his administration are border hawks. They really care about border security and border patrol. The morale is up like never before and that is a good thing. We especially want violent criminals who are here illegally to not only be deported, but also to be severely disincentivized to Ever try to cross the border again? And I just think about how sad this is that Lake and Riley was not visited by the President, like you'll remember. Do you remember Jacob Blake, the man who was shot in the back by a police officer several years ago? He ended up, I believe, being paralyzed from the waist down because of this. But why was he shot in the back? Because he violated a restraining order and his girlfriend called the cops on him because he had sexually assaulted her in front of his children just days prior to this. And yet he was there. And he reached into his car for a knife. And when he reached into his car for a knife, the police shot him, not only for their own safety, which they have the right to do, but for the safety of the vulnerable people that he was potentially about to attack. And Kamala Harris went and visited him in the hospital and lionized him. It was the same thing with George Floyd. The Democrats honoring him, almost venerating him as a saint. And that's not to say that someone should be happy about the circumstances surrounding his death. He was also an image bearer of God. But when we look at the people whom progressives admire and hoist up as heroes and memorialize and take the time to publicly sympathize with versus the ones that they ignore, it tells you a lot about their ideology. Now, all people, of course, Lake and Riley or George Floyd are all made in the image of God. But here we've got a very innocent young woman who was violently murdered, and most people on the left cannot muster any compassion. We certainly don't see corporate America and global movements being mobilized on her behalf. We don't see streets being renamed in her honor. I certainly don't see conservative or of rather social justice evangelicals telling us that riots are the voice of the unheard on her behalf or posting black squares for her. And so this kind of lopsided compassion and outrage, I think is very ugly. And actually misdirected outrage in some cases is just very dangerous. And so pay attention to who is paying attention to this Lake and Riley trial, and just remember her and her name and her story and this testimony. When you are confronted with the onslaught of gaslighting and propaganda in the coming months when the deportations start, remember Lake and Riley. Remember Molly Tibbets. Remember Kate Steinle and so many others. Pray for him, too. Pray that he would come to know the Lord, that he would be saved, because no one is too far off. All right, before we get into the transgender madness that's happening in Congress, let me pause and tell you about our second sponsor. That's Range Leather. I love this family owned company. Kyle and Bailey are amazing. They make all of their products in the US they started this company from their kitchen table and they put so much effort into every leather product that they make because it's supposed to last a lifetime. Whether it's a custom hat, hat or belts or earrings or purses. I love my bag from Range Leather. I use it all the time. It really is beautiful. So high quality will last forever. These make for great gifts. So we're coming up on Christmas. If you want to get a high quality unique gift that last, check out Range leather. Go to range leather.com Ali, you'll save 15% when you use my link. That's rang leather.com/alley okay. Nancy Mace is rightfully raising a respectful ruckus about the bathroom situation at the Capitol because there is now a congressperson who goes by the name of Sarah McBride who is trans identifying. So this is a man who dresses up as a woman who presumably will be entering female spaces. And Nancy Mace is saying no thank you. She is a Republican representative from South Carolina. I have disagreed with her on a variety of subjects. She is certainly more liberal than I am. And I've talked about some of the comments that she has made publicly that I just really did not like or align with. But I do appreciate that she is leading the charge on this. She is unveiling a resolution that would ban so called transgender women or men who identify as women from using bathrooms inside the Capitol. This of course drew immediate criticism from the Democratic Representative. Sarah is what he goes by McBride and he is the first openly trans identifying member of Congress. So this is a resolution. This is not a bill. A resolution is a part of every new session of Congress where the House of Representatives pass a resolution package that sets its own rules for that term. Mace presented this House resolution which she hopes will be included in that rules package at the beginning of the next term in January. They're not binding law, but they express the collective sentiment of the House on a particular issue. Resolutions will typically be considered by the committee before they are sent on to the House. This simple resolution would only be considered by the House, would not need Senate or presidential approval, and basically what it says is that there should be a prohibition on House members and employee from using restrooms, changing rooms or locker rooms other than those corresponding to the biological sex of such individuals in the Capitol or in House office buildings. And she has taken a lot of heat for this, but she is stood Firm. Here's her explanation. Thought 3.
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Nancy Mace
Sarah McBride doesn't get a say in this as a biological man trying to force himself into women's spaces. And I'm not going to tolerate. You have the radical left that are trying to erase women and erase women's rights. I'm the first woman to graduate from the Citadel, the Military College of South Carolina. If some guy in a skirt came by and said, no, that's my achievement, I'm going to be there and standing in the way and saying, hell no. I'm not going to allow men to erase women or women's rights. And I'm going to be standing up here. I will file this again next congressional session. Sarah McBride doesn't get a say. This is about women. This is about girls. This is about our rights and being protected in our private spaces.
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Allie Stuckey
She's absolutely right. These are women's spaces and we should have a say. We shouldn't have to bend to the rules of men who wear a skirt who say that they have a right to infiltrate our spaces. I mean, these are private, sex segregated spaces for a reason. And in just a few minutes, I'm going to have a debate with someone named Brad Palumbo who is on the other side of this issue. I've had him on before and he has been gracious with his time to debate this. I encourage you to stick around for the whole 22 minute debate because it got increasingly heated toward the end of it. But I actually do think that you will find it very productive as you are having hopefully less heated conversations about this, about this subject. So Mace was asked before this answer that you just heard if she was going after a marginalized person with her resolution. It's so insane how a man, a white man that we are told is like at the top of the intersectional totem pole all of a sudden, or the bottom of the intersectional totem pole. I should say he has the least amount of oppression points. He has the most privileged according to progressive ideology. How he suddenly becomes marginalized when he puts on a skirt, wears lipstick, grows out his hair and goes into women's spaces. She also mentioned there that she was the first woman to graduate from the Citadel. I have seen some conservatives say so. Oh, she infiltrated man spaces and now she is. She's mad when a guy is infiltrating a woman's space. And look, I think those are different issues. I think that's a fine debate to have. I think it's important to have sex segregated spaces both for men and for women for a variety of reasons, but the reasons are different when it comes to bathrooms and locker rooms that are meant for women. It is for our protection. It is for our privacy. It is for our safety. You can make your arguments about women going to the Citadel or taking part in traditionally male activities. I think that's a fine debate to have. I don't think this makes her a hypocrite. I think that is a different discussion. So this is what McBride has said to this whole controversy. He said, every day Americans go to work with people who have life journeys different than their own and engage with them respectfully. I hope members of Congress can muster that same kindness. See, this is a perfect example of toxic empathy. Using words like kindness or niceness or respect or dignity that makes it seem like if you don't believe in men going into women's bathrooms, that you are unkind, that you are not showing respect and not showing dignity. But remember, when your empathy causes you to deny reality and or morality, that empathy has become toxic. You could feel for McBride and say, wow, if he really does feel like he's trapped in the wrong body, which I don't think is true for the majority of men who identify as women. I think it's more of a fetish. But I don't know this person. So maybe he really has had a lifelong struggle of feeling like he is born in the wrong body. Maybe he is one of those very, very rare young men who struggled with true gender dysphoria, and he feels liberated and free and his authentic self. That still, of course, would not justify this at all. It is still immoral and violative of women's rights. But maybe that really is his story. You can have empathy for that pain and say, I have never felt that way. That would be really tough. That would be so difficult. Maybe he's had bad experiences in his past that has caused him to reject his masculinity or who he is as a male. And you can have compassion for that. But if your empathy leads you to lie, to affirm his delusions, to validate lies, to encourage sin, then your empathy has become toxic. That's why Christians are not called primarily to empathy. We are called to the truth in love. God is love First John 4, 8. He gets to define it first. Corinthians 13:6 says, Love never rejoices in wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. And so that kind of love, that truth in love dichotomy, is much deeper and more difficult, requires much more sacrifice, is often more Unpopular than this kind of superficial, toxic empathy that the world wants to tell you is loving, but it is the righteous way. And I do believe in this case, Nancy Mace is doing the truth in love option, which may seem harsh to the world, but it is harsh on behalf of the victims in this case, which is not McBride. The victims in this case are the women being forced to share a private space with a man. So Mace had her response to McBride who also said, by the way, I forgot this part. He said, this is a blatant attempt from far right, right wing extremists. First of all, Nancy Mace is like center right you. She's not far right by any definition, far right wing extremists to distract from the fact that they have no real solutions to what Americans are facing. Well, clearly we do, because Trump just won the popular vote and the electoral vote and Republicans won the Senate and Republicans won the House. It was actually Democrats who were unable to present any real options to the American people. And it was this issue, the men and women's spaces, that caused Democrats to lose. I think in a lot of cases this was just the bridge too far. This is why Republicans hammered on this in the campaign, why Kamala Harris never once talked about so called trans rights, while Mace had a response to this. Stop four. Is this effort in response to Congresswoman McBride coming to Congress?
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Nancy Mace
Yes, and absolutely. And then some. I'm not going to stand for a man. You know, someone with a penis is in the women's locker room. That's not okay. And I'm a victim of abuse myself. I'm a rape survivor. I have PTSD from the abuse I've suffered at the hands of a man. And I know how vulnerable women and girls are in private spaces. So I'm absolutely 100% going to stand in the way of any man who wants to be in a women's restroom, in our locker rooms, in our changing rooms. I will be there fighting you every step of the way.
- [23:12]
Allie Stuckey
You know, I appreciate that. And I just think that we need to share the arrows with her right now because she's going to catch a lot of heat. She's even going to catch some heat from Republicans. And even if she's not getting criticism from all Republicans, there will absolutely be Republicans and conservatives who are silent about this, even members of Congress who should have been the first ones. I mean, it should have been men to stand up and say, no, dude, like you're not going to the women's restroom. That's not what we're doing. It's a woman doing that. And at the very least, other male members of Congress should be standing up and saying, yeah, like I gotcha, I gotcha. I'm right there with you. Let me pause and tell you about our second sponsor for the day before we get into that. And that is Good Ranchers. You guys know how much I love Good Ranchers. They've got an awesome deal on their American meat right now. By any box, I recommend the alley box. It's filled with all kinds of meat that is perfect for the busy mom. It's got like the basic cuts of meat. It's got non pre marinated chicken. It's got ground beef which I use all the time. Different cuts of steak. I mean this is what the Stuckey household relies on for healthy meals every night. So get the alley box of Good Ranchers meat. And when you do, you will also get a free Thanksgiving ham. I like ham more than turkey on Thanksgiving. So I think this is a great deal. This is like $110 value that you're getting for free when you purchase any box. And of course you could subscribe to Good Ranchers. Get that box of all American meat to your front door every month. Makes your life so much easier. I say that from personal experience. Go to goodranchers.com use code allie to get that free Thanksgiving ham. Go to ranchers.com code Allie okay, so Mike Johnson, he is the speaker of the House. He is a Republican from Louisiana. When he was first asked about this whole debate, here's what he said. Top five Mr. Speaker, is freshman elect.
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Brad Palumbo
Sarah McBride a man or a woman?
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Mike Johnson
Look, I'm not going to get into this. We welcome all new members with open arms who are duly elected representatives of the people. I believe it's a command that we treat all persons with dignity and respect. And we will. And I'm not going to engage in silly debates about this. There's a concern about the uses of restroom facilities and locker rooms and all that. This is an issue that Congress has never had to address before. And we're going to do that in deliberate fashion with member consensus on it and we will accommodate the needs of every single person. That's all I'm going to say about that.
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Allie Stuckey
Boo. Week week. Thankfully he clarified a little bit and he said something that is very true and necessary at this point in history to say here. So six for anybody who doesn't know.
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Mike Johnson
My well established record on on this issue, let me be unequivocally clear. A man is a man and a woman is a woman and a man cannot become a woman. That said, I also believe that's what scripture teaches what I just said. But I also believe that we treat everybody with dignity and so we can do and believe all those things at the same time. And I wanted to make that clear for everybody because there's lots of questions, but that's where I stand. I've stood there my whole life and those are facts.
- [26:48]
Allie Stuckey
Okay, so that's better. A man is a man, a woman is a woman. It's not only what scripture teaches, it is also what science teaches us. This is true from the moment of conception. We have these biological distinctions that also have implications societally for a reason. And it is largely for the protection or of the most of the more vulnerable sect. And that is of course women and especially girls. So I'm glad that he clarified that. Now I do, you know, I sympathize because I think he is in a tough position. And so he's trying to be as diplomatic and political as possible. He is a politician and so he's saying probably what has to be said. We're going to treat everyone with dignity and respect. But of course I want to know what exactly that means. He said that we are going to meet the needs of everyone. But of course trans activists believe that you have a need to go into the bathroom. That of course that corresponds with your so called gender identity, but that doesn't outweigh the need of women and girls to have their sex separate spaces. Nancy Mace is calling herself a terf, which stands for Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist. And I don't refer to myself as a TERF because I'm not a radical feminist, just the te. But she probably, she does identify as a feminist. I would say she said, this is so strange to me. 25 years ago I was celebrated as the first woman to graduate from a formerly all male military college. Today I'm being attacked as a bigot for fighting for women's rights. The radical left has lost its mind. Now, unfortunately, she is also and gosh, this is just tragic and really scary. She is receiving a lot of threats from people and I don't even think like we have this video. I don't even think that I'm going to play it because it's just so disturbing and I think this person just wants more attention. So I'm just going to say what this person in the video says and we can at least like put up her, her post on X. She reposts a video that someone posted on Instagram this is a man who identifies as a woman who tagged Nancy Mace in his story and said this. He said, look, I am going to grab your ratty looking effing hair, drag your face to the floor repeatedly bash your head in until blood is everywhere and kill you. Okay? So these are the kinds of threats that she is getting from men who identify as women who say that they have a right to come into our spaces. Now, she's not saying, I'm not saying that that is Sarah McBride or whatever this person's name is or what his intentions are. This is not to say that everyone who identifies as the opposite sex is also a violent predator. But even if it's one, even if it's one in a hundred, even if it's one in a thousand, that's enough. And it's not just that we're talking about truth, we're talking about reality. Megyn Kelly, of course, had a great take on this. This had 84,000 likes on X, so it seemed to resonate with a lot of people. Probably has more than that now. She said, why should Nancy Mace or any other female member of Congress, slash staff, have to share their bathroom with a man pretending to be a woman? It's not about the feelings of the man masquerading as a fake woman. It's about not forcing actual women to have to worry that a man is in their bathroom where they are vulnerable and which is supposed to be a safe, private, female only space. Members should stand up for women's rights and not be cowed by empty claims of quote, unquote bullying. Women are the ones being bullied into submission. And she is absolutely right about that. Now Speaker Johnson has come out with an even stronger and clearer statement that I really appreciate this, Justin. He literally just published this. So this is from the speaker of the House. Official letterhead Speaker Johnson's statement on women's only spaces in the US Capitol. Speaker Johnson issued the following statement regarding the use of single sex facilities throughout the U.S. capitol Complex. All single sex facilities in the Capitol and House office buildings, such as restrooms, changing rooms and locker rooms, are reserved for individuals of that biological sex. It is important to note that each member office has its own private restroom and unisex restrooms are available throughout the capital. Women deserve women's only spaces. So that's the kind of clarity that we're looking for. Thank you, Speaker Johnson. All right, I've got a debate with Brad Palumbo, who is again on the other side of this issue. Brad identifies as a libertarian and so he's not necessarily a leftist, but he identifies as gay himself, and so he is liberal socially. We've debated some of these issues before. Today we're specifically talking about this issue of men in women's restrooms. And just to reiterate, I really encourage you to stay all the way to the end of this debate just to get its full, full effect. The whole room in here is a little stressed out. We're a little stressed out about this, but I did my best to advocate for our position, so I hope it's helpful to you. Without further ado, here is Brad Palumbo. Brad, thanks so much for coming on on such short notice. Okay, first, I just want you to make your case. It seems like from what I can see on X, that you believe that what you would call trans women should have access to women's bathroom specifically as we're talking about this story in Congress.
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Brad Palumbo
Yeah, we're talking about this push in Congress from Nancy Mace and other Republicans to specifically prohibit Congress members and workers in Congress who identify as trans women. So they're born biologically male, but they present themselves as women from using women's restrooms in particular, but also other sex segregated facilities. And I guess I just see the whole thing as a solution in a search of a problem. Basically, they've been using the facilities of their gender identity for years and years now at the Capitol. Nancy Mace has almost certainly been alongside Democratic staffers who are trans women in the washroom many times. And there's been no incidents. Even when you zoom out and look across the country, instances of physical assault or voyeurism or harassment in bathrooms are incredibly statistically rare. And these gender identity ordinances that they've passed in many blue areas that allow people to use their gender identity their preferred bathroom, those don't correspond with any increase empirically in those crimes and those offenses according to a whole host of studies. So I view the whole thing as kind of a culture war outrage that's solving a problem that isn't really there but would have some actually pretty messed up consequences, like forcing trans men who are biologically female, but many of whom have huge muscles, full beards, and appear as men to use the women's bathroom and to use the women's locker room. And I think that would make women uncomfortable, if not unsafe.
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Allie Stuckey
Okay, by this logic then, do you believe that those who identify as women should be able to enter any female bathroom in any space, or are you seeing this as a kind of isolated issue when it comes to Congress?
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Brad Palumbo
Well, I Don't think it's an isolated issue when it comes to Congress. I think it's something that clearly we have to hash out. And I think private businesses and organizations should be able to have their own rules. So I'm not saying that like at the Blaze, they have to have gender inclusive toilets. Like, no, I'm a libertarian. It's your building. You should be able to have whatever policies you want. But generally speaking, I think with bathrooms there is no need for this strict sex segregation of banning trans women from women's restroom and forcing trans men who appear male in many cases and pass as men into women's restrooms for bathrooms. I think locker rooms or nude spas or other areas like that where there's exposed nudity and other things I think is much more nuanced and complicated and I think worthy of a different conversation. But banning people from bathrooms, to me again, it's just pointless and it's going to cause far more problems than it solves.
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Allie Stuckey
So do you think that there should ever be a restriction against men going into a female bathroom?
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Brad Palumbo
Well, I think people are more comfortable with these gender or sex segregated bathrooms. And I'm not here railing against that.
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Allie Stuckey
But I will point out, why do you think people are generally more comfortable with sex segregated bathrooms?
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Brad Palumbo
Well, I think partially because of sex based violence and violence against women, partially because of just the long history of gender separation. But I will just point out though that if you travel, if you go to Spain, if you go to Germany, if you go to all sorts of places, almost all of Scandinavia, you'll find public unisex bathrooms with stalls that men and women use. And it's not leading to some epidemic in sex based crime or gender violence. In fact, in many cases it's much lower there than here. So I understand that people are more comfortable. That's why I'm not saying rip up the whole system, I'm just saying allow trans people to use the bathroom they want to use in most cases.
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Allie Stuckey
But you acknowledge that the reason, one of the reasons that people are more comfortable in sex segregated spaces and not just people, we're talking specifically about women, because no one's really afraid. No man is really afraid of the 5 foot 4 guy or actually female with a beard because he's been on testosterone for a few years coming into his bathroom. It is of course, women who are justifiably nervous about the 6 foot 2 guy who happens to be wearing a skirt and lipstick coming into her bathroom, not only with her, but also with her 10 year old daughter. Also, while she may be breastfeeding, also while she may be pumping, while she may be changing, she may be doing things that of course require privacy. That's why we have bathrooms. That's why we have stalls. She might be changing a diaper. There are a variety of very private and exposing things that women do in bathrooms. And there is a reason why we have long had sex segregated spaces. And actually you acknowledged this because of the long history of gender based violence, violence of sex based violence that has existed. And these men who identify as women, they're still men. Like there is a reason for our own sports, for our own locker rooms, for our own bathrooms. It's not because it makes men more comfortable. It's because it makes women more comfortable. And your argument is basically it's not just that we should allow so called trans people into these bathrooms. The other side of that is that you are saying that women should be forced to share these very private spaces with men. I really don't care what Spain does or what Germany does. We don't live here. We don't live there. We live here. And you are asking American women to sacrifice their own comfort, their own safety and their own privacy to share a bathroom with men because it makes some men more comfortable. And I just can't get on board with that.
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Brad Palumbo
Well, no, I understand you're not going to get on board with that, but that's not what I'm asking because I'm actually coming at it from the same goal as you, which is the comfort and safety of women. I think we have very different ideas about how to get there. I think what would make those girls daughters uncomfortable is a burly, muscular man appearing person with a full beard coming in and washing their hands next to them in the bathroom. I don't think washing their hands Next to Sarah McBride, the transgender congressperson is going to be nearly as uncomfortable as that. And I'm not here to discount anyone's fears about safety, but I am going to point out statistical realities and the realities of gender based violence. And sexual based violence don't happen in bathrooms except in most vanishingly statistically rare cases. It's almost exclusively vast majority of the time in other venues, in other situations, not from strangers harassing them in bathrooms.
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Allie Stuckey
Well, I think we can agree that.
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Brad Palumbo
We are against violence, but that doesn't mean it's true.
- [39:16]
Allie Stuckey
We can. Yes, that's exactly true. That's very relevant when it comes to transgenderism. There are men who feel that they are women, but they're not. And so we can't affirm an assent to their delusions by allowing them into women's bathrooms. It's not just a denial of women's privacy and safety, it's a denial of reality. And of course you keep saying safety. We don't have any evidence of that. Yes, well, let's look at these vanishingly small statistics. I think most of us would agree that we don't want violence in any context, whether it's in the bathroom or whether it's somewhere else in some other space. But I do think it's important to look at the faces and the people behind some of these instant instances that you are saying are rare. For example, when we're looking at Loudoun County Schools, in May 2021, a boy wearing a skirt assaulted two teen girls in the bathroom at two different schools and he was transferred multiple times for inflicting violence on these young women. These parents and these young female students, just young teenagers, had to give their testimonial of this violence, of being beaten by this man in front of the school board. According to the New York Post, In October 2022, a teen girl in Oklahoma was severely beaten by a transgender peer in the bathroom. Her mother, Teresa Gooden, reported the client the crime. According to Toronto sun, in 2018, Shane Jacob Green, who identifies as trans and goes by Stephanie, was convicted of sexual assault after he dragged a 15 year old female McDonald's employee into a bathroom stall and attacked her while she was cleaning the washroom. According to Metro magazine in 2019 in Scotland, Katie he goes by that Dulitowski sexually assaulted a 10 year old girl in a bathroom stall at a supermarket in 2014. So this goes way back, but actually this story is still developing to this day. This person who identifies as Hannah Tubbs, admitted to sexually assaulting a 10 year old girl in the bathroom of a Denny's restaurant at age 26. It was agreed that he would serve time in a juvenile facility since he was a minor when he assaulted this girl. According to The Independent, in March 2022, Ian Bullock, who claims to identify as female, attacked a woman in the bathroom of Birmingham New street station. And this was very easy to find. These stories are not hard to come by. They're easily searchable. And while you might say that this is rare, every single instance of one of these men identifying as a woman to enter into these very vulnerable, helpless spaces for women to assault them, they matter and they're one too many.
- [41:54]
Brad Palumbo
Oh, I completely agree. They matter.
- [41:56]
Allie Stuckey
They can do anything to deter men who identify as women or men at all from entering into these very vulnerable spaces for women. I say that we should do that.
- [42:08]
Brad Palumbo
Yeah, Ali. So let me be clear. Of course I believe they matter. Of course I believe those people should all be criminally prosecuted and put behind bars. And I feel terrible for the women harmed in all those situations. So let's not make that mistake, that I don't care about that. But in the same way that it would be wrong for me to read you a list of Christian priests who've molested children and cast aspersions about all priests or say that priests shouldn't be allowed around children. The plural of anecdote is not evidence. And more broadly, to your deterrence point, it's just not true that people who will assault women or girls in violation of too many laws to count would have been deterred by different school rules about what bathrooms they could go into. You almost sound like a Democrat saying that guns don't.
- [42:53]
Allie Stuckey
You don't know that a man boy, who I did define.
- [42:58]
Brad Palumbo
Santa Claus. You don't care about bathroom.
- [43:00]
Allie Stuckey
The boy who identified as a girl. Oh, my goodness. The boy who identified as a girl and wore a skirt, according to Loudoun county policies, was allowed into women's restrooms. And of course these girls were bullied and shamed into not saying anything because young people today are told in order to be tolerant and inclusive, you have to acknowledge that this man wearing a skirt is really a. Is really a girl and accept him into your spaces. And so absolutely, the policy had something to do with that.
- [43:30]
Brad Palumbo
If there are consequences, there's already policies against assault. They already broke policies. Why wouldn't they have just broken the bathroom policy alley?
- [43:37]
Allie Stuckey
Because they were allowed in there. They were allowed in their industry. But if they had been deterred, if they had been given consequences in the first place for even entering into that space, they wouldn't have been there. Brad. And I think somewhere. But again, you have already acknowledged that one of the reasons for sex segregated spaces is for the comfort and the protection and safety of women. In light of the history of sex based violence, you have acknowledged that that is one reason why we have sex segregated spaces. You simply think that men who identify as women are the exception to that. And one other thing I want to say because I don't believe in your analogy. Now, I'm not Catholic, and so you can't really get me with the whole like Catholic priest thing. But I, I don't think that's a good analogy because it's not only that. We are saying that men who identify as women may violate these girls. I understand that not every man who identifies as a woman is going to inflict violence upon a girl or a woman. It's not only that though it is in violation of reality, it is in violation of the truth. I think that there is a cost to saying that two plus two equals five. Now you could say it doesn't really hurt you, it doesn't really harm you to say that two plus two equals five. Just say it. But I believe in violation of the rules of nature and the laws of reality, I think that there is a cost to that. Not only a human cost when it comes to the safety and the protection of women and girls, but also to our ability to convene together as a society. If we can't even agree that male and female exist and there are societal implications to that, especially when it comes to intimate spaces like bathrooms and locker rooms, we really don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to anything else. Quick pause from that debate to tell you guys about Patriot Mobile. Americans are tired and frustrated by a stalling economy, inflation, endless wars, relentless assault on our values. Obviously we are hoping that Trump puts an end or puts a pause on a lot of those things, but we have to do our part too. And part of that is supporting companies that align with our values rather than sending our dollars to companies that hate us and are actively working against us. Patriot Mobile is a Christian conservative wireless provider. They are on the front lines fighting for things like the first and second Amendments, the sanctity of life, our military and first responder heroes so you can take a stand for conservative causes and put America first without compromising your service. By switching to Patriot Mobile they have a 100% US based customer service team that will find the best plan for your needs. You can keep your number, keep your phone or you can upgrade. Go to patriot mobile.com Ali get a free month when you use offer code Ali patriot mobile.com Ali.
- [46:33]
Brad Palumbo
I do agree that male and female exist and I think part of the problem here is that the very radical progressive view on trans issues is totally detached from reality. I'm not here denying that a trans woman is a biological male. That is true. I'm saying that letting them live their life in many ways socially as a woman is not a threat to their safe to the safety of their life.
- [46:54]
Allie Stuckey
Even if they come into my bathroom, even if they use the bathroom next to me and my daughters, you're saying.
- [47:01]
Brad Palumbo
Ali, you've probably used a bathroom alongside a incognito.
- [47:07]
Allie Stuckey
Okay like, no, I probably haven't. I would have noticed. It's very, very noticeable.
- [47:16]
Brad Palumbo
Sometimes it's very noticeable. Sometimes it's not noticeable at all. And I think you'd be very uncomfortable or your daughters would be uncomfortable next to Buck angel or somebody with a beard and muscles in the women's room. But that's the policy you're advocating for here.
- [47:29]
Allie Stuckey
I am. I am advocating for. For women and men to be in sex separate spaces, yes. And of course, I am against someone like Buck angel trying to change her gender and present as something that she is not. And so that's not really a gotcha to me. I do believe in sex separate spaces because I believe in the reality of sex. And you simultaneously say you believe that, but at the same time you think they should be able to, quote, unquote, live their life even if it infringes upon the rights to privacy of women. And that is the problem.
- [48:05]
Brad Palumbo
If they do anything that infringes on your right to privacy, they should like anyone else, like a man or a woman or a trans person or a.
- [48:11]
Allie Stuckey
Non trans person, that a woman has a right to her own space. You don't believe that a woman has a right to her own space. Then you say that that infringes upon our privacy. But you're saying that I don't have the right to privacy in the bathroom. Privacy against a man, which is why we have sex segregated bathrooms in the first place. You're saying that women really don't have that right if a man who thinks he's a woman wants to come in our bathroom?
- [48:35]
Brad Palumbo
I think if that man harasses you or bothers you or peeps in the stall or does anything else, they should be arrested and criminalized. But no, I don't think you're victimized by washing your hands next to Sarah McBride. Okay, like, I don't.
- [48:47]
Allie Stuckey
Okay, but what if it is? What if it's a man who's not wearing a skirt? What if it's a man who looks fully like a man and he comes into the women's bathroom? Should that be okay?
- [48:56]
Brad Palumbo
That's the problem. It really shouldn't. That's the problem with self id, the progressive policy on trans issues. I think there should be a rigorous process. You need to obtain a gender recognition certificate for transitioning gender.
- [49:08]
Allie Stuckey
And it's relevant to this conversation. I want to know what should the process be to be women female enough to be able to enter women's spaces, like the bathroom in Britain, before they.
- [49:21]
Brad Palumbo
Instituted self id, which is the kind of nonsense you're describing, and I agree is absurd where anyone can just declare the gender they feel like they used to have to go through a process of several years of therapy and a confirmed medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria, including living as their opposite sex for years before they could obtain a gender recognition certificate that would allow them to, say, use a public women's restroom. That is a process that's going to stop somebody from just putting on a wig one day and walking into the bathroom. That wouldn't be allowed. But it's not going to end up in the perverse result where people who, for all intents and purposes appear as the opposite sex, appear as male are forced to use the women's room, or women's people who appear as female are forced to use the male locker room, making many little boys uncomfortable potentially. I mean, it's just you're not concerned at all with the practical implications of the things you're suggesting. And I understand for you, it's not.
- [50:14]
Allie Stuckey
Very concerned with the practical implications.
- [50:17]
Brad Palumbo
I don't think you are.
- [50:18]
Allie Stuckey
Okay. I'm very concerned with the practical implications of a lot. We don't have. We don't have that process that you're talking about. We do have. We do. Listen, we do have self identification right now. And so you're talking about a hypothetical one day, if we have these processes to verify that man is really a woman and is not to threat a threat to women, which of course I completely disagree with, because again, you have arbitrary standards for becoming the opposite gender. And of course that's a slippery slope. Not even the slippery slope fallacy. It just is, because all of those standards outside of biology are going to be arbitrary. Of course that can be exploited and abused. But regardless, we don't have that. We do have a man who grew out his hair and wears lipstick and says that he's a woman entering into women's spaces. And so what you're talking about as absurd is actually happening.
- [51:07]
Brad Palumbo
And you talking about Sarah McBride?
- [51:09]
Allie Stuckey
Yes. And you think that's okay. She hasn't gone through all of these people that you're talking about that I listed haven't gone through that process that you're saying needs to happen in order to legitimize someone's transgenderism? No, she hasn't gone through any kind of legal process in order to verify that she's really, quote, unquote, trans. This is actually a man who is dressing up like a woman entering into women's spaces. And again, you do not believe that Women have the right to be protected against that. The other question, I don't think the.
- [51:41]
Brad Palumbo
Public bathroom is an issue now. Can I ask you a quick question, Ali? In the past five years, for example, in the Capitol, in Congress where they've had policies where all the trans women staffers who work for Democrats are allowed to use women's public bathrooms, can you name one incident or assault that was perpetrated in the Capitol by a trans person over the last five years?
- [52:01]
Allie Stuckey
I have no idea. Maybe Nancy Mace would know.
- [52:04]
Brad Palumbo
Well, I think if she'd had one, she would have talked about it. She's been very vocal, even if it.
- [52:08]
Allie Stuckey
Hasn'T already happened in Congress or in the Capitol building. Doesn't mean that she does not have the right that Mace does not have the right to stand up for herself. One other clarifying question that I have here is you said that you think that there should be nuance and maybe different kinds of regulations when it comes to locker rooms. Tell me, tell me why though. Because you don't seem to think that this is a big issue in bathrooms where women are at least half naked. So tell me why locker rooms if you believe that these so called trans women should just be able to live their lives, why are locker rooms different?
- [52:45]
Brad Palumbo
Because I completely understand that many women wouldn't want to be exposed to male genitalia in a locker room.
- [52:51]
Allie Stuckey
Why? Why is that, Brad? Why?
- [52:53]
Brad Palumbo
Because it would make them uncomfortable.
- [52:55]
Allie Stuckey
Right. So if it makes him uncomfortable for men to be in bathrooms, why isn't that enough?
- [53:00]
Brad Palumbo
Well, many women, it doesn't make them uncomfortable for trans women to be in women's bathroom. Hundreds of female Democratic women.
- [53:07]
Allie Stuckey
It doesn't make them uncomfortable for a man to change in front of them in a locker room either. But you're saying we should.
- [53:12]
Brad Palumbo
I think that's something we should defer.
- [53:15]
Allie Stuckey
To the women who are uncomfortable with men changing in front of them in the locker room. Right. And so why doesn't that apply to bathrooms too? Why is it different?
- [53:24]
Brad Palumbo
Well, because there's not routine nudity and exposure to other people in bathrooms with stalls. It's a different situation that calls for.
- [53:31]
Allie Stuckey
Different people get to tell women what should make them uncomfortable and what shouldn't.
- [53:36]
Brad Palumbo
No. And you sound like a woke feminist. Are you going to dye your hair pink? My opinion's not invalid because I'm a man.
- [53:42]
Allie Stuckey
I the person who believes in the reality of gender and that women should have their own sex exclusive spaces. Speaking to the guy who doesn't actually believe women have. I'm the one who sounds.
- [53:56]
Brad Palumbo
Yes. That's identity politics.
- [53:58]
Allie Stuckey
Brad. Brad, you cited it as an argument. Do you hear yourself? You said I'm a man, so I know this. Listen to me. You said that the reason why we should not allow men who identify as women into the locker room is because women might be uncomfortable with a man changing in front of them. That was your reason, not mine. And so I'm saying women also are uncomfortable with men peeing next to them in a stall. And you're saying that's not a good enough reason to keep those men out of women's bathrooms. I'm asking you to tell me the difference. You don't know the difference, which is.
- [54:33]
Brad Palumbo
Why you are projecting your wokeism on and one doesn't. That's a meaningful difference. And so I think you shouldn't be allowed to use a female locker room or changing room if you haven't had bottom surgery and you still have a penis. I think that's a reasonable restriction to have.
- [54:48]
Allie Stuckey
But if women are uncomfortable in both cases, you're saying one discomfort is legitimate, one discomfort is not legitimate. And if you truly believe that so called trans women should just be able to live their lives and enter the spaces that they want to. If your reason for allowing these men into bathrooms is because there's not enough statistical data that proves that sexual assaults happen in those bathrooms, then that should also apply to locker rooms. But it's a double standard. It's cognitive dissonance that you really cannot reconcile and that you haven't been able to reconcile. But you're citing female discomfort. I'm saying women are uncomfortable, rightfully so. In both spaces. Women have a right to our privacy.
- [55:33]
Brad Palumbo
We are uncomfortable with trans men in women's spaces.
- [55:35]
Allie Stuckey
We have a right to sex segregated spaces. And that's the end of the story. And I'm very thankful Nancy Mace is pushing this, but I do appreciate you taking the time to come on.
- [55:45]
Brad Palumbo
I appreciate you having these spirited debates as well. Allie. Thanks for having me.
- [55:48]
Allie Stuckey
Thanks. Have a good day. All right, guys, deep breaths. You made it through the debate. I told you, a little stressful towards the end. Okay, we're gonna read our last ad and then we'll have kind of maybe more light hearted things towards the end. It'll make us laugh and cry at the at the same time. Okay, first let me tell you about Birch Gold. The strategy remains the same. Even though Trump won the presidency, that strategy is that we have to diversify our savings. That's why it's important to buy gold from Birch Gold. So Many things are out of our control, even out of Trump's control. It's important to have a safe haven for your savings. Birch Gold will help you convert an IRA or 401k into an IRA and physical gold. The best news? It doesn't cost you a penny out of pocket. Just text ALI to 989-898, get your free info kit so you can learn more about Birch Gold and the services they offer. Right now through Black Friday, you'll receive a free 1 oz Silver Eagle for every $5,000 purchased. Text ALI to 989898 claim your eligibility for free silver today. That's ally to 989898. Okay, so all of this is happening during or I guess after. What day is it after Transgender Awareness Week, November 20th. Today is Transgender Day of Remembrance, whatever that means. And so in light of this, there are so called Christians or churches as they call themselves across the country, conducting rituals to memorialize this day. Here's the United Methodist Church of Portland calling on their transesters. Sat 1. We call to the transesters whose gender.
- [57:48]
Nancy Mace
Was celebrated, who were honored by your communities and given sacred roles as priestesses, shamans and leaders.
- [57:59]
Allie Stuckey
We call also to the transesters who.
- [58:02]
Nancy Mace
Were shunned and silenced, who know how.
- [58:06]
Allie Stuckey
To survive harsher times than the.
- [58:10]
Nancy Mace
We call on the transesters who fought for liberation and justice to bring us closer to the time when all can live.
- [58:19]
Allie Stuckey
Their truth without fear. Okay, so it's just full on paganism because it's not only this idea that a man can become a woman, which is a superstitious religious belief. Don't let anyone tell you that's like a secular neutral idea. That is a religious belief. That is this idea of dualism, that our body and our spirit are these dual entities and our body is ruled by our spirit's supreme transcendent knowledge. And that who we really are is what we feel on the inside. And our body, physical reality is really just arbitrary, is really just malleable. That is not the Christian perspective. The Christian perspective is that the body is part of what is being made in God's image. The body matters. The body is valuable to God. It's so valuable that if you murder someone, According to Genesis 9:6, the only just punishment for that murder is execution, is the death penalty. That's how much the body matters. Even though the soul goes on forever. God had all kinds of laws and rules and regulations surrounding what his people did with his body. And of course in the New Testament we see these moral Truths re emphasized by Jesus. Sexual morality, the holiness of our physical lives is something that is prioritized in Christian doctrine. And of course we read that as Christians, our bodies are dwelling places for the Holy Spirit. The body matters so much that we serve an incarnate Savior who came to earth and dwelt in the flesh, who became a man and died a bodily death on the cross and rose bodily. We believe in a future resurrection of the bodies as Christians. And so we believe in the importance of physical reality. We believe in the significance of biological reality. We believe in these biological binary distinctions of male and female. And yet in whatever you just watched, which is just straight up paganism, again, they deny all of those beliefs. They deny scientific and biological reality. And they also deny the theological reality that we read in the very first chapter, the first book of the Bible in Genesis 1:27, that God made us male and female. That is part of what it means to be made in God's image. There he creates not only gender, he also creates marriage, he creates the family. They are told through their biology to be fruitful and multiply. And so we are given not only a function, but a, but a purpose. We are given a telos. And Christianity believes in this teleological view of the world that, that how we are made tells us what we are to do, which tells us at least impart who we are. And so actually it's Christianity who has a much higher view of the body, a higher view of science and biological reality than this paganism. And this is really Satanism. Like if you look at one of the symbols of Satan, baphomet, he is part female in body and part male. And so this idea of transgenderism really does have its roots in Satanism, in demonic ideas. This idea that to transcend the gender binary is somehow more divine and more powerful, calling upon ancestors, that that's necromancy. And that is absolutely forbidden in scripture. Israel was forbidden from doing that. Christians are also forbidden from doing that. You are trying to communicate with the dead, which is really just communication with demons. And so United Methodist Church like this is part of what the Methodist Church was split over people like this. And those who still defend the reality of the gender binary, it's just full on Satanism. It destroys the body, it destroys the soul, it destroys the family, it destroys the innocence of children. Because children are always the unconsenting subjects of progressive social experiments. That's why so much of this ideology and the ideologues attached to it prey upon children. And I just want to Remind you to go back, listen to my episodes with Genevieve Gluck that the roots of transgenderism is really not about gender and how people feel about their identity. It's really about sex. It's really about sexual desire. It's not really about gender dysphoria. For most of these men. For most of these men, it started with an addiction to porn with a humiliation fetish, and they actually enjoy other people being forced to play along with their humiliation fetish. And it's a. It's a dark thing, and it's a dark world. But I actually do think it's important for you to understand that, because you will have a right perspective of what we're dealing with, and you will have even more sympathy for someone like Nancy Mace, and you will drop any pretense and any feelings of cringe that you might have that those of us who are conservatives, conservative Christians, are too harsh about this. This. We are dealing in many cases with very, very bad actors who do want to infiltrate women's spaces to get to vulnerable women. I'm not saying this McBride person is that, but I'm saying this is a large part of this movement, and we need to take it very seriously. Read my book, Toxic Empathy, where we have an entire chapter dedicated to the lie that trans women are women. And in these chaotic, crazy, deceitful times, the boldest thing that we can do is not lie and not ascent to delusions. That is the Christian's responsibility, be a refuge of clarity and courage. And by the way, telling the truth about this can change minds and hearts. I get sometimes you're not changing anyone's mind by calling a man he if he identifies a woman. That's simply not true. We have sat down with people on this couch whose minds were changed either by me telling the truth about gender ideology or about someone in their family refusing to call them by the opposite sex pronouns. I can't tell you how many testimonies of detransitioners that I hear who tell me that it was someone refusing to lie to them that ultimately changed their mind and heart, or God used to change their mind and heart because, of course, he gets the credit. So speak the truth in love. Speak it relentlessly. Remember, you are not nicer than God, and God created the male and female. And if he's bold enough to say it in the first chapter, the first book of the Bible, the most loving thing that we can do is agree with him. All right, that's all we got time for today. Go Nancy Mace. You're doing a good job. We'll be back here tomorrow.