Ali Beth Stuckey (35:45)
Wow, that is really weird. That is a weird, weird thing to say. Okay, we've got a discussion topic. Oh. Should we talk about David French? Should we talk about children on airplanes? It's so difficult. It's so difficult to know. All I'll say is this about David French. Okay. Or we're talking about crybabies in both instances. But let's start with crybaby David French, who wrote this article in the New York Times that says David French, or okay, so this is the title by David French, Behold the Strange spectacle of Christians Against Empathy. And then he goes on to cite my book and to cite Joe Rigney's book and basically saying, this is all terrible. And this is just showing this post Christian evangelical movement that cares more about Donald Trump, that has no compassion for people, that doesn't love people, that doesn't love the poor, help the poor. And this is after, by the way, Russell Moore. I always want to say Russell Brand, but Russell Moore called me a 20th century German soldier, aka a Nazi, because I rightly said that the passage where Jesus says, whatever you do to the least of these my brothers, you do unto me is actually about persecuted Christians, not the world's poor. That is absolutely true. I am not the person who came up with that idea. There are years and years of very sound theological scholarship on that particular verse, interpreting it in just that way. But Russell Moore basically, and he's friends with David French, basically made the same argument that, oh, these Christians who are pro Trump have no love. And of course, David French, just like a lot of the people, most of the people who are very angry about the title of my book, misrepresenting it. It's either lazy or it's purposeful misrepresentation. Either way, it's wrong. So he says at the same time, hard right Christians, hard right. I, I again, I would love for David Fringe to come on and like what exactly? What policy wise, issue wise? Do you disagree with me on? Do you disagree with me on the definition of, do you disagree with me on immigration? Let's hear it. I want to hear, like, what is your, what's your plan? What's your proposal for immigration? Where do we agree and disagree? Do you disagree with me on marriage? Do you disagree with me on justice? Like, what makes me hard right versus just a standard conservative. But when you're writing the pages of the New York Times and as he is inched further and further left, everyone to his right becomes hard right for holding ideas that I would say he probably even held on to 10 years ago. So hard right Christians began to turn against the very idea of empathy. Last year a popular right wing podcaster, Ali Beth Stuckey published a best selling book, it was best selling, thank you. Called Toxic Empathy, How Progressives Exploit Christian Compassion. And then a right wing theologian, Joe Rigney, published a book called Sin of empathy. He says these attacks are rooted in the idea that progressives emotionally manipulate evangelicals and supporting causes they would otherwise reject. For example, if people respond to the foreign aid shutdown and the stop work orders by talking about how children might suffer and die, then they're exhibiting toxic empathy. So close, but so far. David French that is not exactly what toxic empathy is. And you can just read the book, it's a quick read and you can learn what toxic empathy is. It is not simply bringing up the negative consequences of in action. It is failing to bring up the victims on the other side of the moral equation. So it could be toxic empathy if you said, hey, if you end this program, if you stop paying this particular program that feeds these children over there, then these children will die. If you are saying that to ignore the people on the other side of the moral equation. If, for example, that program was also funding, I don't know, abortion in the same place, or gender transition surgeries in the same place, or forced sterilization in the same place and you were only focusing on one particular victim in order to make your case. That could be a form of toxic empathy that is used as emotional manipulation to get you to support a certain cause by ignoring everyone else on the other side of the emotional or the moral equation. It's really not that complicated. When we do abortion, toxic empathy looks like only focusing on the plight of the woman ignoring the baby that abortion murders. When it comes to gender, it is focusing on the plight of the person who feels like they were born in the wrong body and ignoring the women and the girls whose spaces and rights are violated and the children whose bodies are mutilated. When it comes to marriage, it is focusing on the desires of the adults who want to be in a union and ignoring the pain that is caused to purposely motherless and fatherless children. When it comes to immigration, it is only focusing on on the plight of the person who is fleeing violence from Honduras and wants to leave here, but ignoring Lake and Riley and Kate Steinle. When it comes to justice, toxic empathy looks like only focusing on the criminal who really wants to be released from prison. Or maybe you should be released from prison, but ignoring all of the unnecessary victims that have endured violence because of people being released from prison too early. So that is toxic empathy. It ignores both reality and morality. And Christians are called to more than empathy. We are called to the truth. In love, empathy is untethered by the truth. It simply feels how someone feels. So if you feel feel so deeply how someone feels that you Affirm their lies. You validate or support their sin, or you advocate for destructive policies. Your empathy has turned toxic. And that's why Christians are to be tethered by the truth. Love is tethered by the truth. First Corinthians 13, 6. Love never rejoices in wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Truth. So love defined by the God who is love first John 4:8, is always inextricably intertwined with the truth. That's why Christians are called to true love. This truth in love dichotomy, which is better than empathy, certainly better than toxic empathy. And look, I know I call David French a crybaby. Maybe that was too mean. I know I'm gonna have someone probably say something about how that wasn't nice. But look, he's basically saying that I'm a cruel monster because I'm against all forms of empathy. That is not what I argue in my book. I argue for something much realer and deeper and more sacrificial than this superficial, performative, and, yes, sometimes dangerous empathy that is hoisted upon us by the empathy mongers. And he's not stupid. I know he knows that. Which means this is actually malicious. It's a malicious attempt, just like Russell Moore's was, to paint me as evil. And thankfully, most people aren't going to buy that. So I'm actually being really nice by calling him nothing more than a crybaby. I also think he's being a liar, which is wrong. We can just disagree. David French, you don't have to go here. Okay? We can just disagree. I'm happy to have you on. We could have a very robust discussion. I bet there's a lot we agree on, actually. But, you know, it's. You know, you're not going to get pushed back in the pages of the New York Times. And all the people who read the New York Times well will take what you say and they will think someone like me is uniquely dangerous. The only reason you, Russell Moore, and David French think that I'm uniquely dangerous, need to paint me as some kind of far right person is because, you know, the women in your churches are listening to me. And that scares you. Too bad. All right, we've got one more conversation and discussion to have. Let me tell you about our last sponsor for the day, and that is Jace Medical. So Jace Medical offers emergency medical supply kits. Either their Jace case, which is an emergency supply of antibiotics that you might need for the most common infections, can't get to the pharmacy, or for whatever reason you Just can't get that prescription. You want those antibiotics on hand. Also you can get their Jace daily case. That is a year long supply of the prescriptions that you and your family rely on. And there's all kinds of things that go on with the supply chain. Natural disasters that could cause some kind of delay in the prescriptions that you actually need to live. So go ahead, get that emergency stash. It's a really great way to take care of your family. Their Jace go case is being given away right now. They're doing a giveaway on their website. This is a travel Jace case. So go to jace.com and enter their giveaway or go ahead and make your purchase and use my code Ali for a discount. That's Jace.com code Ali. Okay, I've been wanting to talk about this because this tweet also that I, that I posted this post on X. I will never get used to that language. Also got more attention and responses than I anticipated. So I thought it'd be a good discussion topic on this show. So this is, this is what I said and please don't hear what I'm not saying. Okay. This is really hard, I know on the Internet to like, like understand that someone is saying something in general or in principle and not trying to apply it to every single person. So but this is what I said. I said for as long as I live, I promise to never be the old woman on the airplane who glares at your kids for making noise. I will always be the one to smile at them, tell mom and dad they're doing a good job and see if I can help. Our kids travel really well. But every negative interaction we have with them while flying has been with an older lady. Yesterday, our 18 month old fuss during takeoff off and the woman in front of us made a huge embarrassing show of plugging her ears and rolling her eyes. That is true. She literally, guys, I can give you a visual. She was going like this, I'm not kidding. And we were like, I, I was kind of diagonal. My husband was holding her and he gets so irritated by people like that. I wanted to be like, are you gonna be okay? Are you going to be okay? Okay? And her husband was like, it's fine, it's fine, whatever. And she just kept on turning it around and like our baby is an angel baby. And she has traveled so much, like so many flights but takeoff is hard and plus it was during nap time and so we really wanted her to sleep but she was a little fussy and take off. She was Great. The rest of the flight, takeoff and landing was a little tough. That's just like, that's, that's normal. So she made this huge, embarrassing show. She was talking to her husband about it. And then I probably told you all this story. This was a few months ago where I was. It was just my husband and I and our youngest. I think it was just the three of us traveling this time. And he was kind of shushing her down the aisle, trying to get her to fall asleep. That would make everyone happy, parents happy the most. And this woman who literally had a dog that yapped on the flight in her lap, looked at my husband, wasn't even, she wasn't even sitting next to us. She was like a few rows ahead of us and said, get it away from me. Get it away from me. And my husband was like, you didn't just call my husband it. Or my. You didn't just call my baby it, did you? And she actually got in trouble with the flight attendant. And they were like, you need to calm down. They paid for their seats. You paid for your seats. The baby is fine. You need to chill out. So I think that these people who act more childish than children, we need to examine what is really going on in this generation. Because we blame Gen Z, we blame millennials for this push towards progressivism. But I just wonder if feminism really did a number on a lot of the baby boomer and silent generation women. Now, I will say 100% honestly, that this is not true at all. Of my kids grandparents like my kids kids, they won the lottery. When it comes to grandparents who are wonderful with children, who love my kids so much, who would be super sweet to kids on an airplane. And of course, I've met lots of older women who are really sweet. One time when my middle was two, she sat in, my two year old sat in the middle, and then this older lady was sitting next to her, my husband on the other side of her. And the older lady was so sweet to her, like, showed her pictures of her dog and sent. So I'm not making a generalization of everyone. I'm just saying every negative interaction I have had has been an older woman. And from the replies that I got, it seems like this is really common. And I want to know what's going on. Are you far removed from when your children were little and you just don't remember, or are you. You don't have children and grandchildren yourself. Is it an entitled kind of attitude? And look, I'm not talking about kids that are like, like Running around, being reckless. Parents aren't disciplining them. Parents aren't paying attention, doing anything. I understand why that can be frustrating. But these people who feel entitled to a child free existence, it's insane to me. You are entitled to a childless life. Like if that's how you want to create your life in your home, your private life, you are entitled to that. I think that's not a good idea. I think if you have the option to have children, you should have children. They make your life very rich and very full and very joyful. Hard in some ways, but totally worth it. But you are not entitled to a child free world. Okay? If you are going to take public transportation, then you are going to have children. And really children, other human beings have more of a right to be there than your dog. Then you're canine 100%. Okay? And so this world that prioritizes pets and plants and professions over children, it's very disordered. And I think it shows up sometimes in the attitude of older people. What debris. Do you think I'm being too harsh here?
