Ep 1164 | Andy Stanley’s New Trans Training & Should Kids Grocery Shop Alone?

Summary

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey – Episode 1164 Summary

Title: Andy Stanley’s New Trans Training & Should Kids Grocery Shop Alone?

Host/Author: Blaze Podcast Network

Release Date: April 1, 2025

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1. Parental Anxiety and Allowing Children to Take Risks

Timestamp: [00:01] – [22:16]

Allie Beth Stuckey opens the episode by addressing several pressing issues from the previous week’s discussions. She delves into the topic of parental anxiety in today’s hyper-connected world and the importance of allowing children to engage in reasonable risks to foster bravery and independence.

Key Discussion Points:

• Social Media and Anxiety: Allie highlights how constant exposure to global events through social media exacerbates parental anxiety. She notes that despite statistical evidence showing that certain aspects of the world (like kidnapping and crime rates) aren't as dangerous as perceived, the overwhelming flood of information makes parents excessively fearful.

  "We simply don't have the capacity to be able to handle all of that information, all of those frightening images and stories all at once. And so it makes us overly scared when really if you look at the statistics... we don't live in that regard in a more dangerous world than we used to." ([04:30])

• Chick-fil-A Solo Shopping Video: Allie discusses a viral video where a mother allows her 7-year-old to shop alone at Chick-fil-A, sparking a mixed reaction among parents. She emphasizes the importance of assessing a child's age, ability, and environment before allowing such independence.

  "I am someone who has the propensity to, I want to err on the side of safety, but I really want my kids to be brave and they cannot be brave and totally safe at the exact same time." ([08:45])

• Balancing Safety and Independence: The conversation underscores the necessity for parents to balance safety with allowing children to take manageable risks. Allie shares personal observations, such as seeing overly protective parents hovering around playgrounds, which can hinder children's ability to develop resilience and problem-solving skills.

  "I think a lot of us parents really have to think about our own anxiety and our own paranoia and our own fears and really check ourselves to see if we are being reasonable." ([11:00])

• Bri’s Perspective: Bri adds her insights, sharing personal experiences from her childhood where being encouraged to interact and take small risks, despite initial discomfort, significantly boosted her confidence and social skills.

  "I think that's necessary for some kids... It made me confident. Made me more comfortable with strangers, which not in a bad way, but in a good way." ([12:29])

2. Should Kids Have Sleepovers at Friends' Houses?

Timestamp: [14:05] – [24:41]

The discussion transitions to the topic of sleepovers, exploring whether parents should allow their children to spend nights at friends' houses.

Key Discussion Points:

• Allie’s Stance: Allie recounts her own childhood experiences with sleepovers, emphasizing the importance of knowing the parents and the environment where the child will be staying. She expresses caution about letting young children sleep over due to the lack of supervision and potential exposure to inappropriate activities.

  "But before you allow your kid into someone else's home, especially if there are other adults or like teenagers that are going to be in house, my stance is different than my parents in that I say no to sleepovers." ([16:00])

• Bri’s Perspective: Bri shares nostalgic memories of sleepovers but also acknowledges the potential risks, such as exposure to inappropriate content or behaviors. She reflects on how some negative experiences can have long-lasting impacts.

  "Some of my favorite memories growing up with my friends were at sleepovers... but I just saw a guy on X... he was still dealing with the effects of that." ([19:39])

• Balancing Risks and Benefits: Both hosts agree that while sleepovers can foster friendships and social skills, they also carry risks that need to be carefully managed. They discuss setting boundaries, such as accompanying children or setting clear rules about technology use and activities during sleepovers.

  "It's all about... knowing the rules. All... I can't say no, absolutely never. Is that ever going to happen? I don't know for sure for now I am saying that's a pretty good ground rule." ([22:16])

3. Critique of Andy Stanley’s North Point Community Church Training on Transgender Issues

Timestamp: [22:16] – [54:40]

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to analyzing and critiquing the new training series released by Andy Stanley’s North Point Community Church for middle school small group leaders. Allie expresses deep concern over the church’s approach to handling topics related to sexuality and gender identity.

Key Discussion Points:

• Training Content Overview: Allie explains that the training series, intended for small group leaders, emphasizes making the church a "safe place for all students" to discuss sexuality and gender identity. The training includes principles like honoring God’s design of the body, avoiding mastery by anything, and not sexualizing relationships outside of marriage.

  "These are very formative years and now more than ever kids do have questions about sexuality and gender and identity and all of these things." ([27:30])

• Concerns Over Ambiguity and Lack of Biblical Foundation: Allie criticizes the training for its ambiguous language and lack of explicit biblical references. She points out that the training fails to provide clear scriptural guidance, leaving room for interpretation that may not align with traditional Christian teachings.

  "We are talking about training videos for church leaders. I think the most important question that a church leader would have is what does the Bible say about this? And yet, at least in this video, we just don't see that." ([39:00])

• Gender Dysphoria Definition Issues: Allie highlights inaccuracies in the training’s definition of gender dysphoria, noting that it misrepresents the clinical definition and oversimplifies the experiences of transgender individuals.

  "The DSM-5 defines gender dysphoria ... persistent and insistent, inconsistent... it's not just feeling some distress." ([38:30])

• Case Study Presentation: The training presents a case of a five-year-old child experiencing gender dysphoria, detailing the family's journey and emphasizing the long-term process involved in transitioning. Allie interprets this narrative as subtly endorsing transgender identity rather than presenting it as a condition to be addressed biblically.

  "We have to recognize that we see that acutely in the ministry of Jesus... It's always about loving them, displaying the power of God." ([43:00])

• Scriptural Counterpoints: Allie references multiple Bible verses to argue against the training’s approach, emphasizing the Bible’s clear stance on gender and sexuality. She underscores that altering theological truths compromises the foundation of Christian beliefs.

  "The Bible starts with the marriage between a man and a woman, ends with a marriage between Christ the bridegroom and the church the bride. These are specific gender designations that not only have significance in the physical world, but in the spiritual and the eternal." ([51:00])

• Personal Testimony: Allie shares a powerful testimony of Laura Perry Smalt, a woman who struggled with gender identity but ultimately embraced her God-given identity after her parents and church leaders chose to love her without affirming her transgender identity. This story reinforces Allie’s argument for steadfast adherence to biblical truths.

  "God used his Word to soften her heart... She started thinking about the Bible verses that she was writing... Now she is a woman who is one of the most, I think, spirit filled and articulate evangelists out there." ([53:00])

• Final Critique and Call for Clarity: Allie concludes her critique by urging the church to provide clear biblical teachings without ambiguity. She warns against allowing progressive ideologies to overshadow scriptural truths, emphasizing the need for Christ-centered ministry.

  "It's got to be Christ at the center. It's got to be the truth at the center... Clarity is a gift. Confusion is a curse." ([54:30])

4. Trump Administration’s Deportation Messaging and Ghibli Animation

Timestamp: [54:40] – [67:50]

In the latter part of the episode, Allie and Bri shift focus to discuss recent messaging from the Trump administration regarding deportations, particularly the use of Ghibli-style animations in official communications.

Key Discussion Points:

• Ghibli Animation in Deportation Posts: Allie criticizes the White House for using Ghibli-style animation to depict deportations, arguing that it humanizes individuals engaged in criminal activities such as fentanyl trafficking, which could undermine public perception of ICE operations.

  "It will evoke sympathy from people, even from the, like, staunchest Republicans. They're going to be like, ugh, there's something that... doesn't feel right about that." ([61:29])

• Perceived Cruelty vs. Deterrence: The hosts debate whether such portrayals are unnecessarily cruel or serve as effective deterrents. Allie juxtaposes the Trump administration’s approach with the Biden administration’s, suggesting that the former’s use of harsh imagery reinforces a tough stance on illegal immigration and crime.

  "So my response was, okay, I can see how the argument that it's unnecessary and that it might be counterproductive because you are making her look like a sympathetic character because she's a woman." ([60:50])

• Public Reactions: They discuss mixed public reactions, noting that while some find the animations offensive and inhumane, others view them as effective tools to discourage illegal activities by making the consequences appear harsh yet dismissive.

  "Take now. Bethany Mandel had a take, which I thought was interesting... we're talking about murderers and rapists and pedophiles who are here illegally being deported." ([65:01])

• Strategic Messaging Concerns: Allie expresses skepticism about the effectiveness and ethical implications of using such animation styles for serious matters like deportation, fearing it may trivialize the gravity of the crimes committed by the individuals being deported.

  "I think this is not about being anti compassion, that is making sure that you are not whipped up, emotionally manipulated into supporting policies that are not good." ([65:24])

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Conclusion

Throughout Episode 1164, Allie Beth Stuckey provides a comprehensive and critical analysis of contemporary issues affecting Christian families and institutions. From parenting in an anxious age to evaluating church-led training on gender identity, and scrutinizing government messaging on deportation, the episode encourages listeners to uphold biblical truths while navigating modern societal challenges.

Notable Quotes:

• "Do the next right thing in faith with excellence and for the glory of God." ([03:00])

• "There always has to be some relinquishing of guaranteed safety in order to exercise bravery." ([09:30])

• "The Bible starts with the marriage between a man and a woman, ends with a marriage between Christ the bridegroom and the church the bride." ([51:00])

• "Clarity is a gift. Confusion is a curse." ([54:30])

This detailed summary encapsulates the depth and breadth of the discussions in the episode, providing valuable insights for those who haven’t listened while maintaining the essence of the podcast’s message.

Transcript

[Ally Stuckey]

Andy Stanley's church has released a training series for its middle school small group leaders on sexuality and so called gender identity and what we are watching is extremely disturbing. We will play some clips today and give our response to it. Also, is the Trump administration finally going too far when it comes to how they are dealing with deportations? And Bri and I will continue the conversation about parents allowing their kids to take risks. What is too much? All of this and more on today's episode of Relatable. Hey guys. Welcome to Relatable. Happy Tuesday. Hope everyone is having a wonderful week so far. Make sure you check out yesterday's episode with Natasha Crane. Isn't she amazing? Just so, so brilliant, articulate, so encouraging. And I hope you felt bolstered and edified after that conversation to unapologetically bring your entire worldview into every sphere that you occupy. If you don't know exactly what that looks like, let me give you the encouragement that I give almost weekly on this show. Do the next right thing in faith with excellence and for the glory of God. That is kind of. In addition to a maxim that was always repeated by Elizabeth Elliott, one of my favorite speakers and authors, she would also say, the only thing that you have to do today is the will of God. And that might sound intimidating, that might sound mysterious. But when you break it down to only doing the next right thing in faith, with excellence and for the glory of God, no matter how seemingly small and trivial that might be, or no matter how public and impactful that might be, that is all we are ever called to do in any given moment. And the Holy Spirit which dwells in us, which is just as powerful today, who is just as powerful today as he has always been, he equips us to be able to accomplish God's will in wisdom and with his grace in any given moment. So go back. Listen to yesterday's episode. Okay, before we get into some stories for today, well, actually a couple things. One, if you haven't gotten your tickets for Share the Arrows, make sure you do that. Go to sharethe arrows.com We've got our speakers, y'all. We still have a couple that we have not announced yet, but we've got a Lisa Childer coming back this year. She was a crowd favorite last year. Absolutely amazing on apologetics. We've also got a health panel which is going to be awesome. This is new this year. We've got Shauna Holman from A Little Less Toxic. We've had her on the show before. We have Taylor Dukes of Taylor Dukes wellness. We've also had her on the show just approaching health from a biblical and balanced and natural perspective and worldview. And then we've also got Katie Faust. And she really needs no introduction to y'all. You know that she is going to absolutely bring it with the hard truths. We've got Ginger Duggar Volo. She will be encouraging us in a conversation on stage. And then we will also have a panel on motherhood and the importance of raising children in the Lord, making a home that glorifies the Lord and that is conducive to discipleship. And those speakers, that announcement is forthcoming. And then of course, I will be there as well. Francesca Battistelli leading worship. So make sure you get your tickets, book your flights, book your hotels. It's share the arrows.com for all of that information. That's sharethe arrows.com all right, Bri and I are going to continue a little conversation that we had last week. It was the topic of discussion on Thursday's episode, I believe, when we talked about Jonathan Heights Anxious Generation and we talked about the importance, according to Jonathan Haidt, of allowing your kids to engage in a reasonable risk at the right age and how important it is for us to foster bravery and to foster independence in our kids because we as parents, especially today, are extremely anxious. And it's not just because the world is scary, because the world absolutely can be scary, but it's actually because we have access to all of these scary things. We see everything scary that is happening in our country, country and in the world all at once. And honestly, humans were never meant to have that power. We were never meant to have that knowledge. We simply don't have the capacity to be able to handle all of that information, all of those frightening images and stories all at once. And so it makes us overly scared when really if you look at the statistics on things like kidnapping and crime, we don't live in that regard in a more dangerous world than we used to. I say that as someone who is very like anxious and protective myself, but I'm trying to learn and to really be reasonable when it comes to this. And part of that conversation was we we played a video of a mom on Instagram who allowed her 7 year old to go into a Chick Fil A while she was waiting in the car. She was was parked right there by the exit. She was watching the exit, but she allowed her 7 year old to take her card or maybe cash, go in order Chick Fil A, wait for it and then come back out. And he was Just so excited. He felt so confident. And so we shared that clip on Instagram last night and wow. Oh my goodness. It sparked so much discussion among my followers. Very disparate views. A lot of people saying, yes, that was amazing. We've done the same thing for my kids. And then you've had other people being like, oh my gosh, Ally, are you crazy? Are you crazy? I can't believe that you are promoting something like this. This is insane. And I didn't give that much of my take last week. And so I just want to, I just want to flesh it out a little bit more. And I shared this on Instagram. My stance is that it is important to allow kids to engage in that kind of behavior and take those kinds of actions at the right age. But it depends on the age of your child. It depends on the ability of your child. It depends on your literal geographical, physical location. It depends on what the parameters are. There was a whole debate last week about whether you would let your five year old, okay, so five year old into a grocery store to go to a grocery store by herself to purchase things and then, you know, come back out and I guess meet you at the car. My stance on that, you've probably seen this debate is, you know, I have a 5 year old. My stance on that is. No, I, I don't think that she's there yet. And in general, I think five is too young. Maybe some of you out there, like, no, five is not too young. My five year old did that. Okay, that's fine. I think in general, though, five is too young for that. In a couple years, at the right place, at the right time, with the right parameters, I could see her totally being ready for that kind of thing. I do think those kinds of exercises and independence are really important. And as I said, I'm someone who has the propensity to, I want to err on the side of safety, but I really want my kids to be brave and they cannot be brave and totally safe at the exact same time. There always has to be some relinquishing of guaranteed safety in order to exercise bravery. And we want our kids to grow and be brave and to be courageous because it is a scary world. And we don't want the first time that they have to exercise any kind of courage or independence to be when they're 18 or 19 years old. We actually want them to deal with fear and deal with risk while they are in our protection, while we have more control, while we can kind of protect them from some of the Consequences. One example of this, it's a small example, but I think it's important because I observe this behavior on the playground and I'm sorry if you heard me say this last week, but it caused like so many messages. I just want to say it. Like, I see so many parents stalking their kids around the playground and that's just something that I won't do. I will allow my kids again, reasonably to fall or to get injured or to climb. And me sitting there being like, I have no idea how she's going to get down from there. And if they truly, truly need help, of course I'll help. And I'm always watching. I'm not scrolling on my phone. I'm paying attention. But I think that kind of thing is really important. And I am surprised at the number of parents who say, no, I cannot allow even my 5 year old to go down the slide by themselves or to like run across the field by themselves because I'm scared of, you know, I'm scared they're going to get kidnapped or scared I'm going to be trafficked. Look, I think a lot of us parents really have to think about our own anxiety and our own paranoia and our own fears and really check ourselves to see if we are being reasonable. Because there's reasonable fear. Absolutely. Or if we are being unreasonable and if we're actually being untrusting, like if we are actually creating anxiety in our kids because of our own anxiety. So I certainly don't have that balance perfect, but I just thought the best, like, backlash to the video that I posted was really a fascinating look into how a lot of parents think. And Brie and I were talking about this before and just like her thoughts on this. And Bri, I know that you're not a mom yet, but you were saying that you just had some thoughts about the comments and the responses that people had to that.

[Bri]

Yeah, I kind of see. I mean, I definitely see both sides. I see why people might be a little, maybe some people take offense to this word, but paranoid about the state of the world and seeing things that are happening to me. I'm like, I think you need to be really aware of like, where you physically live and are because there are so many, like, suburbs and places where people live that are so much safer than people seem to think that they are. Where if you're on a neighborhood playground, like, like, it's just probably not going to happen. And like you said, you shouldn't have your nose in your phone and not be paying attention. But yeah, I think there generally is just the sense of, like, dread following everyone despite where they are. If they're in a really safe neighborhood, they're still like, there could be kidnappers around every corner. And maybe we should all have our head on a swivel all the time. But I also think it just gets a little bit much, you know?

[Ally Stuckey]

Yeah. And some of it is like, a consequence of the fact that we live in a very divided country. Some of it. This is controversial to say is the product of multiculturalism very quickly being forced upon certain communities. When demographics change, when languages change, when cultures change and people don't have time to get used to that, they don't know their neighbors anymore. They can't even share a language or a culture with their neighbors. That's automatically going to make people distrusting. That's not to say that they're assuming that the person who's not from here is a kidnapper. It's just, you're on edge a little bit more because we are not speaking the same language in any regard, literally or figuratively. So I think that adds to a sense of distrust. But even with that, as you said, a lot of our communities are statistically a lot safer. And of course there's always a chance that something bad will happen.

[Bri]

Yeah.

[Ally Stuckey]

But I don't think that that's how we want to train our kids to live their lives. That something could always happen. So don't even try.

[Bri]

Right. Yeah, I agree. And I. I will also say, though, I, when I was a kid, was, like, painfully shy. I cried one time because my parents made me order my own food at a restaurant.

[Ally Stuckey]

How old?

[Bri]

I don't know. I was pretty young. Probably maybe four or five. Yeah, five, maybe. Yeah. And. And so I was like. It was painful for me to interact with other people, and they really, like, forced me to have interactions with. Respectful interactions with waiters and ordering things myself, Things like that. Like in the Chick Fil a video. I don't think I ever went in somewhere by myself, but things like that. And I am so much better for it. Like, I know, you know, you can't attribute something to that directly, but I just feel like that really grew me as a kid.

[Ally Stuckey]

Made you confident?

[Bri]

Yeah, it made me confident. Made me more comfortable with strangers, which not in a bad way, but in a good way. And so I just. I think that's necessary for some kids.

[Ally Stuckey]

You know, I'm sure my parents. It was like the opposite. It was probably like, stop. Stop talking to that person. Okay, stop.

[Bri]

Sometimes that's needed too I guess, yes.

[Ally Stuckey]

But I think that's good. I think about just my own life, even my adult life and doing what I do now. Every new thing that I've done has I've looked back and been like, oh, that one thing that I did that I was scared to do that prepared me for this. And so you, you want those, like little steps out in faith again. When you're under the protection of your parents, that's the best place to have that risk. Okay, next we're going to talk about sleepovers. But let me pause, let me, let me go ahead and get to our first sponsor for the day. Any particular order, Bri, for the sponsors. Okay.

[Bri]

Only the second one.

[Ally Stuckey]

Okay. We Heart Nutrition is our first sponsor for the day. And y'all, I have been using a new product from We Heart Nutrition. I take all of their supplements, their omega 3s, their postnatal vitamin, their magnesium, iron. I love it all. It seems to be really working for me. I think it's helped my immune system. And this supplement I'm really excited about because it's supposed to balance our hormones. So this is the wholesome balance product. I just started taking it a couple weeks ago. So far so good. I can't tell you 100% if it's changed anything in accordance with my blood work. I am getting blood work done in a couple of weeks and so I'll let you know how that goes. It probably takes a few months, probably three or so months for your hormones to really change based on something you're taking. But this wholesome balance product has clinically backed ingredients that do a ton for women's health. It's got saffron, ginger, curcumin, key B vitamins, all in research supported doses. So if you struggle with pms, for example, if you're pregnant, fighting off morning sickness, if you're in perimenopause or menopause, you're going through any kind of hormone change. These can really help regulate and stabilize your hormones so that you can feel your best. I love everything from We Heart Nutrition. I think you will too. Go towe heart nutrition.com if you use my code Ally at checkout, you'll get 20% off your order. That's we heart nutrition.com code ally. Okay, so this is another part of the debate that is going on online and we've probably talked about it before. I've definitely talked about it on the show. So sleepovers, whether or not parents should allow their kids to sleep over at friends houses, I don't think that this includes like sleeping over at grandparents houses too. I think we're just talking about sleeping over at their friends houses. And again this is not specific to any age range. I'm pretty sure that the conversation is about all kids. Now I did do sleepovers growing up like early. I don't know about as young as kindergarten, but I feel like first, second grade I was definitely sleeping over at friends houses and they would sleep over at my house. And my parents rule was if I went over to anyone's house, whether it was spending the night or not, they had to know their parents. Not just I talked to them once on the phone, but like really know them. And so I think that's a, like a good boundary. I would add on to that, like you should not only know the parents, but if your kid is going over to a house like at any point of the day, you should also know their siblings. You should know their, what access to technology they have and what they're going to be doing, what their rules are, all kinds of things. Like I do think it's really important for parents to know all of that. But before you allow your kid into someone else's home, especially if there are other adults or like teenagers that are going to be in house, my stance is different than my parents in that I say no to sleepovers. I, I don't know if I can say because you know, again, my oldest is only five. I don't know if I can say in no circumstances will I ever allow sleepovers. But I do believe it's a good general rule especially, especially with the access to technology that kids have today. And I've talked to so many of you who said even when we were growing up, 90s, 2000s, that they might. Not everyone endures trauma at a sleepover, but very rarely do good things happen. Like are good things talked about. You are putting kids in a situation where they have no supervision for hours and are getting no sleep. And my parents always said nothing good happens after midnight. And I think that is consistently proven to be true. It just seems like a good boundary for me. Even if when they're older it's like, okay, I'll pick you up at 11. Seems better to me than them going to bed at 3am, talking about who knows what and then being completely trashed the next day. It just doesn't seem conducive to like good behavior or like anything productive. That's my stance. Bri, however, has a different stance. So let me, let me hear you're thinking about it, okay?

[Bri]

I'm gonna preface this by saying I don't currently have kids. My mind might change once I do. I'm, like, fully aware of that. Yeah. And you know what? It probably will, the more I think about it. But currently, the way that I think about it is. And maybe everyone approaches it this way from their perspective or the. From their experience of going to sleepovers. I. Some of my favorite memories growing up with my friends were at sleepovers, and I always had the birthday party that was a sleepover. And they were always so much fun.

[Ally Stuckey]

Yeah.

[Bri]

I had experiences that were really wholesome and innocent when it comes to sleepovers, where it was just like, hanging with my friends, watching movies. You know, I know that there are other people who were exposed to really awful things at sleepovers. And I just saw a guy on X. I forgot who it was, but he was saying he was exposed to porn for the first time at a sleepover. He was really young.

[Ally Stuckey]

That's really. And he's still dealing with boys.

[Bri]

Yeah. And he said he's still. As an adult, married adult. He's still dealing with the effects of that. And that's horrifying. Like, those are the kinds of things that might make me change my mind about it.

[Ally Stuckey]

But, like, that was 30 years ago and seen porn once at a sleepover, like, really. Really. The left an indelible mark.

[Bri]

Yeah. So I can imagine how much worse it is now where you can stumble upon it by accident now. So. So I acknowledge all of that, but I just have really good experiences, and I find that they were really formative of growing relationships with other girls and. And making friends. And I just would really be for my daughter to miss out on stuff like that. But, yeah, maybe the risks outweigh the rewards. I definitely can see that. That that's a possibility.

[Ally Stuckey]

I'm just.

[Bri]

I love sleepovers. I always did.

[Ally Stuckey]

Yeah.

[Bri]

And so I would have a hard time.

[Ally Stuckey]

Yeah.

[Bri]

Not allowing that.

[Ally Stuckey]

Yes. I totally see what you mean, because I also have some good memories with that. But I also am like. I feel like most of the time I was just so tired the next day. And I never had anything traumatic happen either. But it's like, it's the gossip. It's the, like, you know, people being left out, the prank calls, the silly things like that that probably weren't, like, formative in a healthy way and wouldn't have happened if we had just, like, been at our own homes. Like, I. I can't even think of anything specific, but I just don't have anything that I can look back on and be like, yes, that was truly like beneficial and formative for me. But again, I. I also can't say 100% if we have a family that we're super close to. We know them really well and my daughter and their daughter are best friends. We've gone on trips together. We know each other. Mom and I have great communication. We know the rules. All. I can't say no, absolutely never. Is that ever going to happen? I don't know for sure right now I am saying that's a pretty good ground rule and I absolutely will not be doing that in like first and second grade. It's kind of like even crazy to think about a little bit. But yeah, I think it also, again, kind of going back to the independence conversation. It depends. It depends on the kids. It depends on the maturity level. It depends on all kinds of different things. But yeah, I don't know that anyone can say before they get there what they absolutely will or will not do.

[Bri]

Yeah, that's fair. Also, I was thinking about it just now and I feel like the sleepovers I remember the most were the ones that were at my house, not the ones where I went to other people's houses. I guess that's not a standard everyone can upkeep. But, but I was. There were some. I remember that. I'm like, my parents let me go to that person's house. I spoke to them like once. But the ones at my house were like a lot more special. And maybe that's just because I felt safer there, I don't know.

[Ally Stuckey]

But yes, I. I never really liked going to other people's houses and spending the night. Okay. I remember like one time I spend. I'm still friends with her, so it's all good. But I spent the night with a friend in like sixth grade. This is another example of like, not trauma, but also not good. I watched Signs.

[Bri]

That'll get you.

[Ally Stuckey]

That'll get ya. And I felt so bad because I was so scared after that. And that would not have happened if I hadn't spent the night because again, older siblings and everything. It was probably like I was probably 11 years old and it's probably 10 o'clock. We watched Signs. Also I remember watching Mean Girls for the first time at this person's house. Which great movie? Well, I can't say great, but it's great. Like in a lot of ways that's really like a teenager movie. I shouldn't have watched it for the first time at this person's house when I was like 10 or 11.

[Bri]

Yeah, no, that's true. Definitely not at 10 or 11.

[Ally Stuckey]

Yeah. So if you're going to, you gotta make sure that the parents, you know, follow the rules and all of that. And now it's a little bit different because kids at 12 years old have a cell phone and they can like text their parents and things like that, which is a whole other issue. But yeah, things. Things to think about, things to. Things to think about. I think there are good risks and then like unnecessary risks because I think it's Jordan Peterson that said, let your kids do dangerous things safely. And I think that's like a pretty good rule of thumb. A mom who is a mom of boys messaged me and said that someone told her once that if they're going to die, stop them from doing it, but if they're going to break a bone, leave them alone. And obviously that's different. That's like physical risk and not, you know, emotional, sexual and all of that, but also like maybe a good, A good rule of thumb in some ways.

[Bri]

Yeah.

[Ally Stuckey]

Okay, well, that concludes the conversation on that. Y'all can let us know what you think. I'm sure that you will have lots of opinions out there, a lot of differing opinions about what kind of risk is right for our kids. I'll tell you one thing that I will not risk for my kids is their theology and their spiritual state. Now, obviously, there is only so much control we can have over this as parents. God is sovereign. He is in control of their spiritual destiny and he will sanctify them through the power of their Holy Spirit, but of. Of His Holy Spirit. But we as parents are charged with the stewardship of their heart and mind. We are called to raise our children in the Lord, to teach what is good and right and true. And that means that we have to, as far as we can, ensure that they have a good theological foundation, a good apologetics foundation. And so the education that they get at home, at school, at church really matters. And we want to make sure that the training that they are receiving is in alignment with God's Word. How gracious is God that He has given so much clarity and such a good foundation in His Word? And I am very troubled by training that I have now seen come out of Andy Stanley's very large and influential church in Atlanta, Georgia. North Point Community Church. Now, we have talked before about Andy Stanley's very problematic and unbiblical stance on homosexuality and so called gender identity. We will link the past episode on that. We'll get into some past context text in just a minute. But you can go back and watch that episode if you or multiple episodes if you want, specifically what I'm talking about. But this training that they are now implementing, that they are now showing to their youth leaders at their church called Transit, is very troubling to me because it uses words that sound good while ultimately not affirming what scripture actually says about LGBTQ identity. So these training videos for middle school small group leaders recently were published online. They were, I guess supposed to be private and they have now leaked it seems to instruct the leaders to, I don't know if I would say affirm so called gender identity, but at the very least ignore statements of self declared transgender status of children and teenagers in order to make the church more comfortable for kids who are struggling with gender deception. Now, gender deception is the terminology I use because I don't think gender dysphoria is always the right terminology. But the language they use I find to be very purposely ambiguous. And that is why it's so disturbing. Really important for us to know what's going on and these very large evangelical churches. So I'll get into the details in just a second. Let me go ahead and pause and tell you about our second sponsor and that is Good Ranchers, y'all. I love Good Ranchers so much. They've got a great deal going on right now. They've got a Spring Into Action special. So when you subscribe to your Good Ranchers box of all American meat, you get free bacon, ground beef, chicken nuggets or salmon in every box for a year. Plus you get $40 off with my code. Ali. That's an amazing deal. We're talking about hundreds of dollars off your subscription right there. My code typically gets 25 off right now. Ally gets $40 off. You can check my Ali Beth Stuckey Good Ranchers box. It is awesome. It's got all of the basics that you need to make really good healthy meals. The non pre marinated chicken, ground beef, cuts of steak. I also love their seed oil free chicken nuggets. You cannot find seed oil free chicken nuggets anywhere. I don't care what health food store you go to, how healthy the bag says they are. They're always going to have canola oil, sunflower oil, inflammatory oils. But you don't have to worry about that with the Good Rancher's chicken nuggets. They taste really good. I can attest to that. My kids love them, but also they have avocado oil, so nothing inflammatory in them. And just like Everything else that Good Rancher sells, it's all from American farms and ranches. So go to goodranchers.com use code ALI for that $40 off. Take advantage of their Spring Into Action special going on right now for a limited time. Goodranchers.com ally code alli all right, the 2025 leader training videos were intended for small group leaders with Transit. Transit is the middle school ministry, so sixth to eighth graders at North Point Community Church, where Andy Stanley is the senior pastor. So the transit website says this about the middle school years. We know that middle school can be complicated. Students are going up fast and need a place where they can learn how God sees them. And remember that last line there? Learn how God sees them. In light of what we are about to read about this instruction, these instruction videos meant for these small group leaders. So the training videos included transit director Brit Kitchen instructing small group leaders on how to handle issues related to their upcoming teaching series on sexuality. The emphasis of the training in these videos is how leaders can be a safe place for all students. So let me just stop there first. I think it is great that any church is taking matters of sexuality and identity seriously, that they're not just brushing it under the rug, that they're not just hoping that, okay, maybe parents and students will kind of deduce what God thinks about these things from us teaching through scripture. But we don't really want to talk about it because it's controversial. I think churches should be addressing these things head on. It is true that middle school is a very complicated time. There's a lot going on in each individual life in a person's body. These are very formative years and now more than ever kids do have questions about sexuality and gender and identity and all of these things. And so so far, if this were it, if we found out that, okay, North Pointe is addressing this issue from a biblical perspective, they're not ignoring it, I would be applauding and say yes and amen. But I will give them credit simply for addressing it, for saying this is an important issue, for recognizing that and recognizing that the church needs to have a voice in it. However, how they go about this I really, really disagree with, at least as I'm watching these training videos and also in light of what Andy Stanley has said in the past. So Kitchen begins these videos by giving three main principles that they try to emphasize as they teach middle schoolers about topics related to sexuality. 1. Honor God with your body, 2 don't be mastered by anything and 3 don't sexualize any relationship outside of marriage. Now I agree with all three of those things. I agree with that. Those all are supported by scripture. Now his explanation of why we should honor these three principles, why we shouldn't, for example, sexualize relationships outside of marriage, I think is weak because it makes it sound very subjective, like this is a personal interpretation and not objectively what the Bible says. He says, quote, we simply don't think it's wise based on the teachings of Jesus. We don't think it's wise to make any relationship sexual in nature until you are married, that no relationship should cross the boundary for your own physical, spiritual and mental health. Well, yes, it's not wise because Jesus clearly articulates that when he defines marriage. In Matthew 19, 4, 5, for example, we read throughout Scripture, especially in the epistles to the church and corinth to the Christians there, that we are to honor our body and flee from sexual immorality. We see that throughout Scripture we see that model of holy sexuality is between one man and one woman in the context of marriage. It's not simply that we don't think it's wise based on our interpretation of what Jesus said. The training video that then moves on to the question of same sex attraction and of so called gender dysphoria with children and young teenagers emphasizing that they want their church and ministry to be, quote, the safest place for students to talk about anything. Now I don't disagree with that one statement. Again, I do want the church to be a refuge for people with questions, for people with struggles. I want people who are in sin, who are tempted, who are struggling, who are confused, to be able to come to the church, to talk to Christians, for Christians to be ready and willing to embrace that person, to love that person, to care for that person, to point that person to Jesus and point that person to the truth lovingly but totally unapologetically. However, I'm not sure that that is the same, the same thing that they are saying because in the entirety of this 20 minute video that was leaked, this is part of the training regimen. Britain never addresses the Bible or any kind of biblical support for these opinions, for these perspectives that he is putting forth. So it is. What do you mean by this? Now maybe you could say, well, he gets to that later or this is not the time for that. I just don't know. We are talking about training videos for church leaders. I think the most important question that a church leader would have is what does the Bible say about this? And yet, at least in this video, we just don't see that. So in this video that's circulating on X, he says, when he's addressing gender dysphoria, he says, now, gender dysphoria, this is a weird term. We don't hear this a lot. Basically, this is the clinical term for anyone who is unsure about their gender. While that's not true, he says dysphoria is the opposite of euphoria. Euphoria is joy, happiness, contempt, excitement. Gender dysphoria is like they're not comfortable. They don't have joy over it. They're not sure where they land, how. I mean, how many people honestly have joy over their gender? Not everyone has joy over their gender. There may be a lot of different instances where someone would say, gosh, it'd be a lot easier if I were the opposite opposite sex, or, this is a really hard thing about being a man or a woman or whatever. But it is simply an acceptance of who we are, how God made us. And so even putting this dichotomy up there, euphoria or dysphoria, I think causes a lot of confusion because you might have a kid out there that's like, well, I don't feel euphoric about being a girl or boy. Especially in middle school. Things are so complicated and weird and confusing. To tell a person that the opposite of having this disorder is euphoria, I mean, that automatically is going to make kids wonder, well, what am I categorized as? If I'm not euphoric, then am I really transgender? But this is not the definition of gender dysphoria, by the way. According to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of mental disorders, the DSM 5, gender dysphoria is defined as a marked incongruence between one experience and express gender and the gender. This is, you know, liberal language assigned at birth, accompanied by significant distress or impairment and social, occupational, and other important areas and functioning. And here's what's important in this. The adjectives that are used to describe true gender dysphoria are persistent and insistent, inconsistent. Okay? It's not just feeling some distress or some disappointment or incongruence. It was originally seen only in boys. A tiny, tiny, tiny percentage of the population. You saw it at a very young age. Boys who felt distress about being a boy and wanting to look like a girl, dress like a girl, act like a girl. And then over 80% of those boys would go through puberty and those feelings of distress would end. There's also, like, a link of trauma there. And so what we are seeing now the social contagion, as Abigail Shrier and other scholars have noted, is not gender dysphoria. It is people trying to identify as the opposite sex. But they don't have the diagnosis of gender dysphoria. They might have gone through trauma themselves. That's typical in girls. They might be addicted to a dark form of pornography. That's typical in boys. But it is not some innate mental disorder here. And actually, if you're not understanding that and explaining that, you're not going to be able to equip church leaders to be able to address it head on. So even just defining the terms, there's a problem there. Here's SOT1.

[C]

The terms transgender or non binary are some sample terms that an adult might use to describe who they are if they're trying to figure out their gender. Our goal in these situations is to best support the student and the family.

[Ally Stuckey]

Point. Okay, I have so many problems with just the language there. That is, that is affirming, progressive language. Transgender, non, binary are the terms that an adult might use if they're trying to figure out their gender instead of simply clearly affirming that your gender is not something that you can figure out, but it is something that was fixed at the moment of conception, that your unique DNA was either male or female, that God made you that way in his image. Genesis 1:27. That is the clear reality. Now, they might be deceived, they might be confused, but they are not genuinely trying to figure out who they are. Who they are has already been defined by God, and it is our job to lovingly and pursue, persistently affirm that reality. At one point in this video, he also says that transgender people are a very small part of the population and that leaders probably won't encounter someone who is truly transgender. But he then says this is strangely contradictory. Over the years, we've gotten to know several families who have dealt with so called gender dysphoria. So I'm not really sure there. And actually, if you look at the statistics, according to CDC data, 18 to 24 year olds identifying as transgender has gone from 0.59%. Okay. In 2014. Point. That's. That's 0.59. Okay. To 3.08% in 2023. So quintupled in the last decade. Yes, it's still a small percentage, but still quintupled. And we know that. I think according to Pew Research, I think it's pew research that 20% of Gen Z identifies is LGBTQ. Okay, so something is going on here. It's not just, oh, this is just a natural, a natural evolution here. It certainly seems like this is a phenomenon. This, that is being socially driven. Then Kitchen tells the story of a family whose journey with so called gender dysphoria began when their student was five years old. I don't know why he says student instead of child, but that's the choice in language that he uses. Here's Sat 2 now.

[C]

Through the years, we've gotten to know several families. There's one family in particular that's very helpful for me. Their journey first started when their student was five years old. This family first started going to a child psychologist and seeing a medical specialist. Every time they start using different pronouns at home, but only at home they're not using these pronouns. In school, they weren't even asking extended family to use those pronouns yet. They weren't asking friends to do it yet. Then a big step was to pick a new name from the other gender so they could start using that.

[Ally Stuckey]

Okay. Then he goes on to say that the parents did end up asking other people to use the preferred pronouns. We don't actually know the real gender of this child. The parents supported the child pursuing puberty blockers, knowing that surgery will happen later. He says this is the typical kind of. These are the typical steps. Steps that are taken. And that parents ask the school and others to use the names and the pronouns and that this particular family. This is right, Brie. That this particular family tried to get other people to affirm their child's gender at the church and they wouldn't. Or is that a different story?

[Bri]

That's this story. I think that's thought three.

[Ally Stuckey]

Okay. Okay. Let's just watch the thought then. Okay, here's thought 3.

[C]

Their local church said, nah, because we've known him since he was a little boy, we're not going to start saying her. So not here, not at our church. We've known you too long to be able to do that. So everywhere this child went in life, they were saying, you are one thing, but only at church. They had to pretend to be something else. They had to leave that church. And they finally came here, started talking to our care ministry staff. And we realized, oh, my goodness, we cannot be the last place a student feels comfortable.

[Ally Stuckey]

Oh, my goodness. Okay. So we did find out that this is actually a boy.

[Bri]

Yep.

[Ally Stuckey]

That trying to identify as a girl. And he is saying that it was wrong that their local church would not affirm this child in being the opposite sex. Would not call this child by pronouns that do not correlate with his God given biological reality. And this person who is the head of middle school, middle school ministry at North Point Church in Atlanta led by Andy Stanley, is saying that that was wrong, that that church was not a safe place, that that person, that that child had to pretend to be something else. No, identifying as a girl was pretending to be something else. And that church in love was affirming reality. And by the way, other kids matter too. Forcing children, all of these five year old friends who knew this child as a boy to then call this child a girl and say, no, this friend who I have known since preschool ministry, I now have to say as a girl, that is sowing confusion in those kids that is so damaging to their understanding of God and themselves and others in reality and morality. Of course, that church is trying to shepherd the hearts and the minds and the souls of everyone in that church, including the children. And so, yes, the right and the loving thing to do would be to say, look, we will walk with you through this, but we will not tell a lie. We're not going to tell a lie. And the fact that Andy Stanley's church is saying that that church did something wrong and the right thing is for, I assume, reading between the lines, for a church to use opposite sex pronouns for a child who is deceived about their gender, it's insane. That is a radically progressive position. I just want you to know where North Point is on this. All right, let me pause and tell you about our next sponsor. It's Every Life. Every Life is praying for more babies in 2025. CR and I are also praying for all of you who have been trying, who want more babies. We want Christian married moms and dads to be having all of the children. And we are just praying for more adoptions, more fostering more children to be had in 2025. This is who Every Life is. They support life, they support marriage, they support families. And that's just not true of most diaper companies. Most diaper companies are actually pro abortion and they are funding progressive causes that stand for the dissolution of the nuclear family and who care nothing for marriage. And you don't have to worry about that with Every Life. Not only are you getting amazing diapers that work really well, they're the diapers that we use in our home with super clean materials. But also you are supporting a company that supports life that is donating dollars, resources to pro life pregnancy centers. Also just supporting the creation of families. Right now, if you go to everylife.com pray you can sign up for their praying initiative that is happening this year. If you're watching this, you can see all the couples that are a part of this initiative. We're praying along with you. Join us. Pray for more babies in 2025. Go to everylife.com pray so he says we cannot be the last place a student feels comfortable. Look, our primary concern as Christians is not whether someone feels comfortable. Yes, I, I want that. I, I want people who are stuck in sin or in some kind of mode of deception to feel confident walking into a church. But if they are deceived, if they are stuck in sin, then it will be uncomfortable to walk into the light. If we have been asleep and someone walks in and turns the light on, is that comfortable? No, it's not comfortable. But at times it's necessary. Some things that are necessary are uncomfortable. And we have to recognize that we see that acutely in the ministry of Jesus. How many people did Jesus make uncomfortable? His own disciples were made uncomfortable by the difficult truths that he preached. Do we see in the ministry of Jesus that he was really concerned at all with making people comfortable? Yes. Healing people? Yes. Meeting their needs. But it wasn't about comfort. It was about loving them, displaying the power of God. But we see over and over again that Jesus makes things really awkward sometimes by saying things that he knows no one wants to hear, but they need to hear. So this is not modeling ministry after Jesus. Kitchen goes on to describe how this whole process of transing a child can take years. And he uses these progressive euphemisms like upper surgeries and bottom surgeries sought for.

[C]

There's upper surgeries and bottom surgeries and many people can go through the upper surgery, but the bottom surgeries are extremely invasive and sometimes don't even work. And so it may not even happen be possibility for every person who wants to make this change. So knowing how long this journey really is, it's important that we as staff in a small couple years care for these students. Knowing this is not going to be a flip of the switch and be taken care of next week. This isn't going to be something that is turned around in just a few days. This is going to be a five or six year process for the student if, if they stick with it. And the best part is that's exactly what our strategy is already made to do to track along for multiple years with a student.

[Ally Stuckey]

Okay, what do you think he's trying to say, Bri?

[Bri]

He's trying to say that what, what got me here was the language. Almost seems like, he's trying. Like, it comes. Like it comes off. Like, it might be saying, the journey takes a long time for them to come back to who they actually are, to, like, transition back.

[Ally Stuckey]

Okay, that's a charitable reading.

[Bri]

Yes, but I. But I don't think that's what he's saying. I think what he's saying is, yes, it takes a long time to get to the point of surgery and to get to the point of actually trying to physically transition, and we need to walk with students all the way through that.

[Ally Stuckey]

I think he's saying, slow your roll. Don't feel so much urgency to change them, because they probably won't even be castrated for a few years. So you don't need to worry about that right now, because that process takes a long time anyway. Now. Now, charitably, he might be saying we might be able to stop them from doing that, and we have time before that happens. But again, why should we have to read between the lines? Especially since this is supposed to be an internal video. You should be saying, look, we do not want someone mutilating their body because we know God created their body, loves their body. Christianity teaches that the body is good, that Jesus came here bodily, that we will be raised in the body. Wow. The body matters so much. So we want to stop that, and here's how we do that. But it's not. It's like, okay, this might not happen for a long time.

[Bri]

Yeah, okay. Yeah. But also the language of like, yeah, some of these bottom surgeries don't even work. So some people won't even be able to succeed in. In what they're trying to do. It's. The way he's talking about it is like, oh, that's such a shame that they won't get to fully complete their transition. And I know, again, I'm reading in between the lines, too, but they make.

[Ally Stuckey]

It that you have to.

[Bri]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ally Stuckey]

It's ambiguous on purpose. And I. I do think they do that on purpose so that they can point to a video like this and be like, that's not what we said. Okay, well, tell me exactly what you believe then. Tell me, because this is not clear. And I bet that we are older and probably more mature than most of the middle school leaders. Small group. The small group leaders there. And if we are, like, trying to understand what you're saying, then they will, too. And I know Andy Stanley knows this. He's a good community communicator. Clarity is a gift. Confusion is a curse. And there's a lot of Confusion in these videos that I think will be a curse to the church and to the people that they are trying to serve. At one point in the training kitchen gives a little sample script when talking to a student who might identify as gay. That is all about affirming the student being thankful that they told the youth leader and nothing about what the Bible says about any of this. So affirming. They don't necessarily say in this video that they should affirm homosexuality as good, right? No, not explicitly, just affirming like, like.

[Bri]

You'Re, you're so brave for telling me. Thank you so much. He says there's a direct quote in here. He says we need to applaud them for being willing to tell us. And so there isn't, you know, he's not explicitly saying we should affirm them being gay or identifying as gay, but there's not the opposite either.

[Ally Stuckey]

Yeah, and I, I agree there is a time and a place to say certain things. And when someone opens up to you and is very vulnerable to you right away, it's probably not the time and the place to open up. Romans 1. But there is a time and a place for it. Like at some point there is a time and a place and if I'm a, a leader, I'm wondering when that is. So, like, when can I appoint people to Jesus? Like, when can I point people to the truth? Like, are we trying? It seems like a whole strategy to out nice God here. We're all nicer than God. We're apologizing for his word. We already know that. Andy Stanley calls Romans 1 and First Corinthians 6, 9, these clobber verses that, that, you know, I guess, I don't know, he believes don't carry as much weight. He has also said explicitly that homosexuality is a different kind of sin than other sins, which is absolutely unbiblical and puts a yoke and a burden on people struggling with same sex attraction that the gospel that Jesus does not put on them. And so we already know that's completely messed up. So this is where all of that confusion is coming from. Kitchen closes this video with the story about a middle school student who had been struggling with gender confusion and identity while attending a summer camp with their ministry. Kitchen said that this child was hearing about the message of Jesus and salvation. But Kitchen claimed the small group leader was too focused on the gender confusion and wasn't comfortable having a gospel conversation. But luckily, one of their staff members intervened to point to Jesus and pray with the child. God, I don't know if I'm your son or daughter, but I know I'm your child's. Okay, so that's how it ends. I don't think it's of course wrong to point a child to Jesus who is in the midst of their confusion. That is the most important thing. The most important thing that they go from unbelief to belief. And we have to trust that Jesus will sanctify them after that through all kinds of means. But I don't know if that's the conclusion. That should be the conclusion of this video. That still leaves so many questions. Right again. When is the right time to say the clear truth of what Jesus said in Matthew 19:4 5? When is the right time to tell people that Genesis 1 is really clear? And God tells us this because he loves us and he knows our body and he didn't make a mistake when he made us like. What is the right time to talk about the Bible at church?

[Bri]

Yeah.

[Ally Stuckey]

Not mentioned in this training, at least in this particular.

[Bri]

Yeah, in this 20 minute training.

[Ally Stuckey]

In this 20 minute training. And that is the concern that is also my concern with Andy Stanley's messages in the past is that I think he wants to let God off the hook. He wants to let the Bible off the hook. And I think he thinks he can give a better message and a more hopeful message to people who identify as LGBTQ than God can. And that is self idolatry. And I worry about those being affected by this ministry. Yes, I think the church can do a better job of addressing this head on. Yes, I think that the church should be training their leaders to have these conversations. But it's got to be Christ at the center. It's got to be the truth at the center. Please go back and listen to or watch my conversation with Laura Perry Smalt, an amazing woman who believed for years that she was in the wrong body. She believed it really from a young age. And she embraced this newfound identity as an adult. A man named Jake. She had a double mastectomy. She had a hysterectomy. She wanted to be affirmed in this way. She was affirmed by many people in her life. The people she was never affirmed by, the people who never called her Jake, who never called her. He. Him Pronouns were her Christian parents and their fellow congregants at their Christian conservative church in Oklahoma. And she understandably was uncomfortable going there. She was uncomfortable talking to her parents because they didn't affirm her. And yet they loved her. They never stopped reaching out. They never stopped talking to her. They Never stopped caring. And in fact, it was her mom asking Laura to transcribe some Bible study notes for her that, that Laura started thinking about the Bible verses that she was writing. And the Lord used his Word to soften her heart. She started going to church, started going to Bible study. She was not affirmed in her identity as Jake. These people knew that this was a woman made in the image of God named Laura. And even though it made her uncomfortable, it was their truth telling while also loving them. That God used to change her heart and embrace who she really is as a woman. And now she is a woman who is one of the most, I think, spirit filled and articulate evangelists out there, who is just so beautiful and gentle and is now married to a man. And it's just an incredible testimony of God's redemption. But God didn't use compromise to lead her to himself. He used courage. And what this training seems to be promoting is compromise and cowardice rather than the courage that we get from God's word. The definition of gender and marriage, again, this alliteration we've been using for six years at this point is rooted in creation. It's reiterated throughout Scripture. It's repeated by Jesus himself. It is representative of Christ in the church, Ephesians 5. And therefore it is reflective of the Gospel. The Bible starts with the marriage between a man and a woman, ends with a marriage between Christ the bridegroom and the church the bride. These are specific gender designations that not only have significance in the physical world, but in the spiritual and the eternal. And we do not have the option as Christians of messing with that. It's a core tenet of Christianity. When we get that wrong, we end up getting everything else wrong too. Once you start compromising on Genesis 1:27, you eventually compromise on John 14, 6. It always happens. So let's pray for repentance from some of the people in this church. Like so let's pray that the Holy Spirit will help those who are hearing this confusion and buying this confusion at church to be discerning and to be courageous and to stand up. All right, we've got a little bit more. Let me pause and tell you about our next sponsor for the day, and that is Jace Medical. Jace Medical is a supplier of emergency medical kits. And this is one of those things where it's just better to be safe than sorry. You don't want to be in a situation where you need an antibiotic, but you can't contact your doctor, you can't get to the pharmacy, or maybe there's supply chain issues and you don't have a remedy for your infection. Or maybe you need ivermectin or you need Tamiflu or you're in a real emergency situation and you need an EpiPen, EpiPen, but you don't have access to these things. That's why you need a Jace case, because you can have an emergency stash of all of these on hand. You go through a telemedicine process that's totally confidential to make sure that you're getting the right dosage of everything. And then you can have it on hand. You can also have a Jace daily case that is a year long supply of the prescriptions that you and your family rely on. I've been in a situation where I'm like, I ran out of my prescription. I wasn't able to get to my doctor because it was a Friday and I needed, I needed it over the weekend and I didn't know what to do. It would have been really nice to have a supply of few, a few of the pills that I needed over the weekend. And so don't let yourself get in that situation, especially when it comes to the health of your family. Go to jace.com you can enter a giveaway. They're giving away a travel case, a Jace go case right now. And if you get a Jace case or if you get a Jace daily case, you can use my code ali at checkout for a discount. That's Jace.com code Alli. All right, let's just talk Bri really quickly. As our in segment we've got a lot of people who are upset by post on X by the Trump administration. Okay. There's a. Is it called Ghibli? Ghibli. Ghibli or Ghibli? I don't know.

[Bri]

Ghibli.

[Ally Stuckey]

We think it's Ghibli. Okay. So. And it is, I don't know, a form of anime.

[Bri]

Yes.

[Ally Stuckey]

Which I am spiritually, morally opposed to.

[Bri]

Spiritually and more, yes.

[Ally Stuckey]

I think that it is like it can be, can be. YouTube can be a gateway to all kinds of degeneracy, including gender confusion and promiscuity. The themes that are in it, I think sometimes they're very dark and demonic. You can at me all you want to. I will stand by it. But this is seems to be kind of like a cute form of it. I don't know where it comes from. I guess it's Japanese, but they're cartoons of like Grok on X. If you say turn this Picture into a Ghibli. Whatever. It will do that for you. And it's just a style of animation.

[Bri]

Yeah, it's very. They're very popular movies that I think stem from one. One guy, I think he made Spirited Away. If people did that movie.

[Ally Stuckey]

Yes.

[Bri]

So I. In my opinion, it's a prettier animation style of anime. I think most anime is pretty ugly, but. Yeah, but, yeah, yeah, some of them are pretty cute.

[Ally Stuckey]

I agree. It's cuter. It's like, less harsh, rounded features. Okay, so the White House capitalized on this trend, and they, quote, posted a picture of this woman being deported, crying in handcuffs with this ICE officer in this Ghibli style. And this is a, quote, post of a post that says Virginia Bassora Gonzalez, a previously deported alien felon convicted of fentanyl trafficking, was arrested by ICE in Philadelphia after illegally reentering the U.S. she wept when taken into custody. All right. A lot of people, even on the right said, this is cruel. This is casual cruelty. This is fascism. My response was, okay, I can see how the argument that it's unnecessary and that it might be counterproductive because you are making her look like a sympathetic character because she's a woman. She's crying. You've got this stone cold ICE agent that's arresting her. We don't want people to feel sympathy for fentanyl dealers. And making this into a cartoon that's, like, making fun of it will evoke sympathy whether it should or not. It's going to evoke sympathy from people, even from the, like, staunchest Republicans. They're going to be like, ugh, there's something that, like, doesn't feel right about that. And I get that. I don't buy the argument that, oh, my gosh, this is so cruel because this person was a fentanyl dealer. She is likely responsible for the deaths of thousands of people, including teenagers. Accidental deaths, people who thought that they were taking one medication, it was laced with fentanyl. Obviously, some people are making those choices, and that's not a good choice. But, like, this person literally, like, got fat off of the spoils of. Of America, was here illegally and was killing thousands of Americans. Like, there is real, like, she should get the death penalty. To me, and we're talking about, oh, my gosh, it's so cruel to make a. A cartoon out of her. All of your ire, all of your ire should be directed toward her and the victims that she had. That's. That's my take. What do you think, Bri?

[Bri]

I I feel a little bit differently about this one than I did the previous ones that they've posted, which we might get into the White House account.

[Ally Stuckey]

Not the. Not Ghibli, but just kind of like.

[Bri]

Like the other, like, kind of meme time.

[Ally Stuckey]

That was my favorite.

[Bri]

Closing time.

[Ally Stuckey]

That was great.

[Bri]

Also deportation. Asmr. I thought that was hilarious. Funny.

[Ally Stuckey]

So funny.

[Bri]

And I think those speak more to, like, those of us who are like, finally, yeah, the sounds of deportation do sound nice. After all that we've dealt with, you.

[Ally Stuckey]

Know, we're literally talking about murderers and rapists and peasants, pedophiles who are here illegally being deported. There's nothing sad about that.

[Bri]

No. And so those ones I'm like, I fully support posts like that because they're funny. This one, I tend to agree that I think just the style itself evokes more sympathy from people who are not going to do the research and look at who this person was. They're just going to see the photo and then the cartoon, and they're going to be like, wow, that's really cruel.

[Ally Stuckey]

And that's all. That's going to be reposted on Instagram, where. Where all of the liberal wine moms are.

[Bri]

Yeah. And what a joke this administration is that they're posting. You know, they're mocking this woman without looking into it. And so I see how there could be some harm done to the narrative when they post something like this. I see where they were coming from. They were trying to do the same thing that they did with the ASMR video, where it's just like a very online thing that a lot of people did enjoy and think was funny. But, yeah, I think this one, the reaction is just a little bit different, I think.

[Ally Stuckey]

Take now. Bethany Mandel had a take, which I thought was interesting, and I still don't know if it was the right strategic move, but she said all of these messages that they're putting out aren't for us. They are to their deterrence. They're to deter people like her who want to come over here, get rich off of selling fentanyl, dealing fentanyl here, or who want to come here illegally at all, but especially the criminals, to say, like, we don't give a rat's patootie about you. Like, nothing. We don't care about you at all. Like, not only are we going to deport you, we're going to make fun of you when we deport you. So don't even try, because we're serious. That is the exact opposite of what Biden did, which was allow people in who should not be here, refuse to deport people who were rapists, who were assaulters. And that message was also conveyed to people who shouldn't be here. I said, okay, great. It's my time to come. And the Trump administration is communicating the opposite, like, yeah, we're cruel toward you, and we will continue to be cruel toward you, and we will laugh at your tears because you're killing Americans and you're not allowed to be here.

[Bri]

Also, the one of this wasn't a meme, necessarily, but Kristi Noem in front of prison cells in El Salvador, she went to that big prison.

[Ally Stuckey]

I thought that that was a little odd myself.

[Bri]

Well, well, I think that's a good example of them being like, this is the kind of thing that we're gonna implement if you guys come here. Like, that's the kind of post that, if I were thinking about illegally immigrating, I would be like, oh, rather than, like, this cartoon.

[Ally Stuckey]

Yeah.

[Bri]

So I would see, maybe that being the goal of posts like that. I don't know. I don't know how much this, like, cartoon animation will deter people trying to traffic Fentanyl.

[Ally Stuckey]

Yeah.

[Bri]

But I see that maybe that's what they're trying to do.

[Ally Stuckey]

Yeah. It's a little tough because the Biden administration granted asylum to people that they probably shouldn't have, and Trump is deporting some of those people. And now the narrative is he's deporting asylum seekers and people who had legal protections here. The problem is they shouldn't have been here. Like, there's this guy, he had two crowns tattooed on him, which is a symbol of Trende Aragua, a Venezuelan gang. He's from that area of Venezuela. His previous ICE proceedings said, yeah, we believe that he's a part of that gang, and yet he applied for asylum in the midst of all of that and got asylum. And the Biden administration, and now the Trump administration is like, no, you're deported. And now the narrative is, while he's deporting these genuine asylum seekers who are just, like, good people. Well, it's a little more complicated than that. And I'm not saying that they're doing everything perfectly and you shouldn't deport people who are here legally and, like, are doing nothing wrong. But at the same time. Yeah, I want them to give a second look at everyone that Biden allowed in, even legally. Yes, I want you to give a second look at that. Of course. So, I mean, people forget about Lake and Riley and Kate Steinle. So quick. Don't be deterred by toxic empathy. Have compassion for people as made in the image of God. Yes, read my immigration chapter of toxic Empathy. Because your good, your well intentioned compassion will be leveraged against what is good, right and true for this country. And so this is not about being anti compassion, that is making sure that you are not whipped up, emotionally manipulated into supporting policies that are not good. All right, that's all we got time for today. We will be back here tomorrow.