← Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey
Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey
Ep 1203 | The Secret Trick to Fixing Your Period | Guest: Dr. Lara Briden
01:01:28
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- [00:01]
Ali Stuckey
Doctor Laura Bryden is a naturopathic doctor with a focus on women's health. She has written several books including the Period Repair Manual, the Hormone Repair Manual. She is here today to talk about why ovulation in our cycle matters for women. Not just to make babies, but also for our brain health, for our metabolic health, and how this relates to perimenopause and menopause. I learned so much from Dr. Bryden today, and you will too. If you're like a women's cycle nerd like I am, I want to know as much as possible. This episode is for you. Get out your notes app. Get out a pen and paper. Take notes so you understand everything that she's saying. It is so enlightening. This episode is brought to you by our friends at kexi. Kexi cookies are amazing. And I can tell you from experience, the only bad thing is that you're not going to be able to stop eating these cookies. They deliver right to your front door. Go to kexi.com and use promo code ALI15 for 15 off K-E-K-S-I.com code ALI15. Dr. Bryden, thanks so much for taking the time to join us. If you could just tell everyone who may not know who you are and what you do.
- [01:29]
Dr. Laura Bryden
Hi, Ali. Yeah, thanks for having me. My name is Lara Braddon. I'm a naturopathic doctor. I'm Canadian originally, that's the accent. But I live in New Zealand currently. And a naturopathic doctor means that I treat people with diet changes, nutritional supplements, herbal medicines. Through my 30 years of practice, I've also used what are called body identical hormones or bioidentical hormones to treat women's health problems. I've had a very strong women's health focus in my almost 30 years of practice. So I treat women with PCOS, endometriosis, perimenopause, and out of all of that work came have come so far, three books on women's health that have. I'm very grateful. Have seemed to have reached people in all parts of the world. So that's been a great opportunity.
- [02:16]
Ali Stuckey
Yes, they have. Okay, can you define for us what is a naturopath doctor?
- [02:22]
Dr. Laura Bryden
Yeah, fair enough. Good question. So a naturopathic doctor is a. Yeah. Doctor who uses natural medicine in North America where I trained. So it's, it's a registered accredited profession. There are, I think it's about, I think at the moment, like four colleges, naturopathic medicine colleges in the US and two in Canada. And we go through A very, it's a parallel training. So it's similar to medical doctors, but it's, you know, done separately. So we learn, you know, physiology, anatomy, pathology. We do it, you know, an internship and. But rather, rather than prescribing only medicines, we also learn to treat the whole person. And yeah, so it's, it's, it's, yeah, it's a, it's a great profession to be part of. And yeah, as I said, it's given me an opportunity to do things very differently in some, for some conditions.
- [03:14]
Ali Stuckey
Yes, I can imagine. You said that you've been practicing for over 30 years. And what interested you specifically in women's health? Why did you go into that specialty?
- [03:24]
Dr. Laura Bryden
Yeah, not quite 30 years, but I think I'm about 28 years practice. So I, it all started just on the ground. When I first started practicing in Canada, I was in rural, I was actually just south of Calgary, so I was in a small town in rural Canada. Many of my patients were just ranchers and teachers and just really ordinary people, which is great to get a chance to work with them. And obviously when I first started practicing, a lot of my patients were women. And I think I did treat some men back then too. But I think part of it was just back in the 90s there were women just didn't have a lot of other options. So I was seeing women who were facing surgeries, who were on high dose hormonal birth control, who were, you know, really struggling with those approaches and wanted something different. And I was as you do and you learn on the ground, you know, stakes are high. I was just very grateful to discover early on that some of the tools I'd been given for nutrition, diet, herbal medicines actually worked quite well for women's health conditions. And so I was excited by that. So then when I moved down, I first moved to Sydney, Australia for quite a number of years. I opened up a much busier clinic there, an urban clinic, where I was pretty much only focused on women's hormones. I had other doctors working, naturopaths working under me. And so I got an opportunity again to learn on the ground, to just see, you know, thousands of patients and learn what works for them.
- [04:54]
Ali Stuckey
So you wrote this book, Period Repair Manual. And for a lot of people that title alone may be confusing. What is there to repair about, period? What does it mean to repair your period? How can you have a manual that gives you a guide on how to repair your period? Because for so long we've been just, you know, we've been told that you take hormonal birth control, that will regulate your hormones, that'll regulate your period, it'll stop your cramps, it'll heal your endometriosis, and then as soon as you want to have a baby one day, you get off your birth control, no big deal, life goes on. But it doesn't seem like that is your approach or your thought process about women's menstrual cycles.
- [05:41]
Dr. Laura Bryden
Yeah, well, let's start with that. You take the pill to regulate your period. I'm just going to start with that because it's such a weird idea. It's one of these kind of strange narratives that got locked in about it feels like forever, but it's really only about 60 years since we've had the pill. And to be clear, most almost all methods of hormonal birth control shut down the menstrual cycle. Like they switch off ovarian, temporarily switch off ovarian function and they therefore flatten ovarian female hormones. And for example, if you were to measure female hormones while on the pill or other, most other methods of hormonal birth control, you would find in a young woman, you would find close to menopausal levels. So ovaries are switched off. And then as some of your viewers probably know on the pill, the kind of the drug induced bleed or the withdrawal bleeding that women get, it's time to be monthly, but it's only mimicking a menstrual cycle. It's not a menstrual cycle. There's no medical reason to bleed monthly on the pill. So in that sense, obviously, yeah, good place to start. The pill cannot regulate the menstrual cycle. That's been a, that's very clear in my book and I will, I have found that actually that in my communication with women all over the world and on social media and when I do presentations when that finally sort of when the penny drops on that for women, they, a lot of them do feel a sense of, you know, sort of confusion and betrayal, especially if that's what they were the pill was prescribed for.
- [07:18]
Ali Stuckey
So yeah, I just want to make sure that people understand what you're saying is that when you were on hormonal birth control, for the most part you are not having a period. You said there's no medical reason to bleed while you're on the birth control pill. So why do hormonal birth control pills have that week? Maybe it's white pills or what, whatever. Where you are going through that withdrawal bleed, what's actually going on?
- [07:47]
Dr. Laura Bryden
Yeah, very Good question. So. Well, first of all, I mean, it, it, it usually is necessary to bleed sometimes when you're on the pill just so you don't get, you know, the uterine lining is going to let go at some point and sort of. So sometimes, I mean, yeah, the induced bleed, it's a withdrawal bleed. So the white pills that you see are the sugar pills. They're the non. They don't contain the, the contraceptive medication. So they do. They will. Whenever they're timed, they will allow a bleed to happen. But there's no medical reason for it to be monthly. The whole monthly thing, it sounds weird to think about, you know, 60, 70 years on, but it was really just kind of a cover story for. So, I mean, there's, there's always history. I'm a bit of a history buff, so it's always interesting to think about, you know, medical history and how things came about. But back in the 50s, 50s and 60s, when they were, you know, bringing the pill to market, they were, you know, they were. The pill taking a medication to avoid pregnancy was not legal. So they had to kind of like, you know, wink, wink. It was really just. It's not to avoid pregnancy. It's like to, you know, air quotes, air quotes. Regulate the cycle. But at the time, the doctors back then and the scientists back then knew that wasn't really what it was for. But then, weirdly, we've had this, as I said, this sort of strange narrative that's taken hold and now it's prescribed for that. And to be clear, I mean, the pill can, hormonal birth control can relieve period symptoms. So I'm definitely not saying that it has no place medically. Some women, it can relieve symptoms of polycystic ovary syndrome. That's a condition of high testosterone in women. It can relieve pain, but it can't regulate, it can't fix the menstrual cycle. It really relieves symptoms by shutting down the natural menstrual cycle. And a big part of my work is that I, well, believe, you know, based on several lines of evidence, that a natural menstrual cycle is beneficial for women because it's how we make hormones. So men are, I always phrase it this way, men are kind of quirky. They make their hormone testosterone every day, whereas women, we make it on a monthly pattern. But that doesn't mean those hormones are not important. They're actually our own. Estrogen and progesterone are important for healthy bones, for example, for healthy brain, for metabolism, metabolic health, for heart health. And we need those hormones over all of, you know, the decades of our menstruating years, just like men need testosterone. And so the very, I would say, somewhat reckless approach that we've had for the last three or three or four generations of just shutting it all down and replacing women's own hormones with contraceptive medication has, has it's, it's been quite a startling thing to happen.
- [10:49]
Ali Stuckey
Yeah.
- [10:50]
Dr. Laura Bryden
And another thing to just point out. Yeah. Is that the, the medications in the pill are not natural hormones. They do not have the same effects on our brain or bones. For ex.
- [11:05]
Ali Stuckey
Quick pause before we get into the rest of that conversation to tell you about Share the Arrows brought to you by our friends at Carly Jean Los Angeles, October 11, Dallas, Texas. We are going to be there before you know it. It is less than four months away, which means you need to make your travel plans. You need to make sure that you've got everything in place. Get your tickets. There are VIP tickets available and that is the opportunity to meet someone. Speakers to meet me. There's a VIP dinner the night before the event at the Blaze Studio so you can see the relatable set. You can meet all kinds of people. It's really special. So if you want to buy that VIP package, you can find that@sharethearrows.com but our general admission tickets are awesome too. Every seat in the house is a good seat. Go to share the arrows.com you'll see our rough schedule there. Our speakers are Elisa Childers, Ginger Duggar, Vola. We've got Katie F. Taylor Dukes from Taylor Duke's Wellness, Shauna Holman from A Little Less Toxic. We've got M is for Mama, Abby Halberstadt. We've got Mama Bear Apologetics, Hillary Morgan for rare. We've got Francesca Battistelli back this year leading us in worship. And then of course, yours truly. I don't know another women's conference like this. This will continually give you edification throughout the year because of the fellowship, the worship and the teaching that you will get from this one day event. Go to share the arrows.com let's go through the cycle. And you shouldn't, you shouldn't fear like sounding too scientific. I mean not everyone, myself included, will understand everything, but a lot of my audience has been kind of paying attention to this subject and they would love to hear it broken down from a scientific expert doctor perspective. So in order for us to understand why the cycle is important, I think we need to understand what is actually happening in the cycle. So can we go through Starting on day one. What is day one of the menstrual cycle?
- [13:08]
Dr. Laura Bryden
Yeah, I love talking about this. I'm a cheerleader for menstrual cycles and hormones. So it's graves gives me a great opportunity. Yeah. And it's not that complicated. So people don't need to worry. It's not that sciency. It's so on. On day one of the. When you're counting your cycle. And I'll just say if people are using a period app or charting their cycle. Day one of the cycle is the first day of the proper flow. If there's a bit of spotting, premenstrual spotting a light flow before the flow actually starts, that's actually part of the previous cycle. So it's. It's quite important to get the day right. So day one would be the day of the first day of proper flow. Hormones are very low at that point. That's like a reset for the whole cycle. If you were to again, if you were to measure do a blood test for estrogen, our main estrogen, estradiol, on that day they would be menopausal levels. Even in a young woman. That's normal. That's actually. That's just something I like to communicate. So people. Because sometimes people have a blood test at that time and then they feel a little frightened that they see such low levels of hormones. So that's normal.
- [14:10]
Ali Stuckey
So both hormones. Sorry, is progesterone low too or are we just talking about estrogen?
- [14:15]
Dr. Laura Bryden
Both hormones are baseline very low at that time. Okay, that's. It's kind of dang. So we get this sort of just our hormones. I mean our hormone cycle. Like we're not like men. We don't make our hormones every day. We make them on this monthly pattern if everything is going well. And so yeah, hormone. Both estrogen and progesterone are. Are flatlined. That's kind of our baseline. And then as we move through the first phase of our cycle, which is called the follicular phase. For anybody who is already knows about this. I guarantee some of your listeners or viewers are chart cycles.
- [14:49]
Ali Stuckey
Yes.
- [14:49]
Dr. Laura Bryden
Or do something called fertility awareness method, which is. I love it. Like you know, it's. And when you meet women who do it or have been doing it for years, they're also. They share my enthusiasm for the menstrual cycle usually. So that first. Yeah, pre ovulation phase is when the ovaries start making estrogen, quite a lot of estrogen by just before ovulation. That'll be peak estrogen and it increases by about four times, you know, baseline. And that estrogen is highly beneficial for, for example, bones is the most well known, that we really need that estrogen to build, you know, to have strong bones, especially as a young woman. And then, you know, it's good for brain and metabolism and all sorts of other things. We're usually great for mood, although some women do get some negative mood effects from that high estrogen. But most of us feel great with it. I say us. I mean, I'm now menopausal, so this is all behind me, but I, I kind of miss it. I do, I do miss that. Pre ovulation almost sort of not, I won't say euphoria, but a lot of women get like, really get quite an outgoing high. Confidence.
- [16:00]
Ali Stuckey
Yeah, I was about to say confidence for sure. I think that there's a lot of confidence. And you just kind of think you're like, why am I in such a good mood? Why do I feel like I just kind of want to go out and see people and talk to people? And then a lot of people who don't know their cycles, they might not connect it to that. They might just think, oh, I'm just in a good mood. But a lot of times it's connected to that. Like pre ovulation phase.
- [16:23]
Dr. Laura Bryden
It is. And people who, women who chart their cycles kind of harness that. They'll be like, oh, I've got this public speaking thing coming up and I'll be pre ovulatory. That's going to be great. We also get a little bump up in a tiny increase in testosterone at that time as well. It's not very much at all like a tiny drop in the bucket compared to what men have, but it's still enough for women to feel. It feels quite good. And to be clear, ovulation, you know, the, the mean or the average is that it happens on day 14. But I just really want to be very clear. It doesn't have to happen on day 14. There are, there's a, there's a, a range of normal for the menstrual cycle, the, the duration, the length of it and counting from day one to day one of the next cycle. That, that can, in an adult woman, that can range from anywhere from 21 days to 35 days. That's considered normal. Teenagers will be longer because younger, younger women have longer cycles. So up to 45 days in total for that cycle. So. And it's the follicular phase. It's the first part of the phase. First part of the cycle that varies in duration. So if someone, for example, has a 35 day cycle, that's their natural cycle, then they're actually not going to ovulate until around day 21 rather than this classic day 14. So because it's that again, it's that first phase that kind of moves around quite a bit. Quite a bit. So then you get to ovulation, which is obviously the release of an egg, which is important if you're trying to make a baby. But it's not only for that. It's also the main hormonal event of the menstrual cycle. I call it the engine of the menstrual cycle. That's how everything works, that determines the timing of the menstrual cycle. So it, it takes, depending on the woman, it'll take, you know, two to three weeks or one to three weeks to kind of get to ovulation. And then ovulation is a brief event and then a temporary gland. After ovulation, the sac that released the egg reconfigures. It's quite an amazing thing. It goes from just being quite tiny to almost. It could be up to 4cm. I don't know what that is in inches, like half an inch or something. Structure and just forms over a few days. And it forms this temporary gland, hormonal gland that releases progesterone. And it releases, if all is going well, it releases a huge amount of progesterone, like enormous amount compared to estrogen. Actually. Progesterone goes up it, from its baseline, it goes up about 14 times, not, not three or four times like estrogen. So we're actually at peak progesterone will be a hundred times higher than peak estrogen. We always see them as if you see the hormones depicted on a menstrual cycle, they always look like they're about the same, but equal. But we make way more progesterone than estrogen and we only make it for two weeks because. Mainly because that little gland in the ovary has a. In my book, I call it the lifespan of a butterfly. It's. It doesn't stick around unless conception happens with pregnancy, then that little gland will be rescued and it will, you know, keep, it'll stay there. It'll be responsible for making progesterone for the first three months of pregnancy until the placenta starts, takes over that job. But for a menstrual, if there's no pregnancy, then the end of the menstrual cycle will be when that little temporary gland reaches Its end and progesterone drops and estrogen drops. That's all happening at the end of the menstrual cycle and then a bleed is induced. Now I will just say, because that's the common story and most people know that story, it is really important to know the fact about the body, or what's called body literacy, that it is also possible to get a bleed without having ovulated. So that's not to get too technical. That's called an, an ovulatory cycle. People don't have to remember that. It just means there's a cycle where there was no ovulation and that's not uncommon. That would, there's various situations when that would happen. And, and just a, you know, classic sign of a cycle where ovulation didn't happen is that the bleed could be a little funny. Like the bleed could be longer or kind of stop and start bleeding rather than just the proper, you know, three to five day flow that you'll get with proper menstrual cycle where there was progesterone and yeah, the two weeks of progesterone.
- [20:53]
Ali Stuckey
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- [22:17]
Dr. Laura Bryden
Yeah. Okay. Exactly right, yeah. So it's the follicular phase because that's the Egg is maturing in the ovaries. While it's maturing, its little sac or follicle is releasing estrogen. So that's the. Yeah, follicular phase. And then I didn't say the name of this. The second phase is called the luteal phase. Yeah, the word luteal is making it into sort of the common conversation a bit more, which is fun for me. It's named after the corpus luteum, which is the temporary gland that forms. So if people see the luteal phase, that just means that's. It's the progesterone phase. And I'll just give a little plug for progesterone as well. It has a kind of a bad reputation, definitely. Medicine is very scornful of progesterone. They see it as, like, collect, generally. Obviously, doctors. Some doctors recognize that it has good sides. But I think part of the. I would call the, you know, the paradigm or the era of contraceptive medication that we've had for the last 60, 70 years, part of that came from this idea that, well, we don't really need our own hormones. You know, they don't. These medications in hormonal birth control will be good enough. And part of that would be this idea that the progestins, which are in hormonal birth control are somehow good enough for health, but progestins are not progesterone. They're very. Actually very different from progesterone in some ways opposite. And. And so one of the big costs for women of, you know, potentially decades on hormonal birth control is not having an opportunity to make any of their own progesterone. And one of the things that progesterone does, it has. It has many benefits, has some downsides, too, but many benefits. It's one of its main benefits is it. It's really good for the brain. It makes this. It metabolizes to. Well, they call it a neurosteroid. It's kind of like a neurotransmitter. It's like that. It's a. But it's a hormone. So it interacts with. Not to get too technical, but it's calm. It's generally calming for the brain. It interacts with GABA receptors in the brain. It's very nourishing for the brain. And. Yeah, so that's. That's part of my love of hormones is progesterone is. I call it the Cinderella hormone. It's been misunderstood. It's been kind of just pushed aside. And it actually has many Benefits, Many benefits.
- [24:29]
Ali Stuckey
Especially if you get pregnant. Right. That's what. Okay, so after. If conception happens and on that day of ovulation. And ovulation is only one day. Right. And that's kind of the. Of the cycle.
- [24:42]
Dr. Laura Bryden
Yes, yes, perfect. Yeah. Ovulation is the star, is the engine of the cycle. But it. The event itself, the release of the egg is quite. It. It. Yeah. The ovary gets its final kind of stimulation and then it just really all takes place over about 24 hours. And then the. There's. There's been some video footage circulating of actually the egg coming out, which is astounding. They managed to capture that somehow on a video. And it's. Yeah, it's quite a beautiful event. It ruptures out the side. It sounds a little violent, actually, like. It does. It does kind of rupture tissue, push out the side. But. And then, if people are interested, just one little thing about ovulation, because the human body is so amazing and beautiful. It's just the egg is just put out into the. The pelvis, basically. It's just put out into space, really. And then the tubes, the fallopian tubes, gather it up. They kind of sweep around looking for it. They just these, like, these tendrils and then obviously, hopefully they find it and then they, you know, bring it into the tube. And that's. But the ovaries and the uterus are not actually connect. Well, they're connected in other places by connective tissue. But like the. Between the ovary and the place where the, you know, the. The opening where the egg then goes in to reach the uterus is. There's a gap there and it's. It's just quite an amazing. That's a bit of a segue, but I mean, just.
- [26:02]
Ali Stuckey
That is amazing.
- [26:03]
Dr. Laura Bryden
That's. Yes, it is amazing.
- [26:05]
Ali Stuckey
Yeah.
- [26:06]
Dr. Laura Bryden
And so really beautiful.
- [26:07]
Ali Stuckey
It is so beautiful. And if conception happens, which. That whole process is fascinating and beautiful too, just the whole thing that the body does to try to, like, select the right sperm and all of that.
- [26:19]
Dr. Laura Bryden
Yes.
- [26:21]
Ali Stuckey
So interesting. But progesterone increases every day right after conception. Is that true that progesterone is really important for keeping that pregnancy alive?
- [26:33]
Dr. Laura Bryden
Yeah, well, that's where it got its name, pro gestation. So, yes, it really does promote a healthy pregnancy. You can't have. You cannot have a pregnancy without progesterone. Well, you can't really have a pregnancy without any of the parts that we've just been describing. But yeah, it's so it. Progesterone starts as soon as the corporate. That little temporary gland forms. So it'll actually start. Progesterone starts before conception. Well, conception is going to happen in the fallopian tube. So conception of, you know, be pretty quick, actually. So it's kind of all happening at the same time. And then the fertilized egg kind of continues down the journey. And by the time it reaches the uterine lining, progesterone will have worked some of its magic on the uterine lining, make it as receptive as possible. I mean, one of the things that progesterone is doing, all sorts of things, it is affecting the woman's nervous system. Kind of one of the reasons, just as your listeners might find this interesting, but one of the reasons progesterone has a bad reputation. It is somewhat tranquilizing. So it does. It is calming the nervous system. And that's to do with that neurosteroid that I talked about earlier. It's. And some women, depending on the woman, they can experience that in different ways. It can sometimes feel not great. It's very different from that euphoria that you get. Estrogen is very stimulating and as you say, it makes you very outgoing and want to get out and explore the world. Progesterone makes you want to just kind of stay home sometimes and. But that's. That makes sense, right? There's like the wisdom of the body. Like the. It's because if you, you might be pregnant, so you probably just need to like, eat well, you eat more. Progesterone stimulates appetites. You need to eat more, rest more. And that's kicking in every menstrual cycle. The body's in the early phases of preparing for pregnancy. So. And also it also slightly suppresses immune function, which is. It has to, because the immune system has to. Women's immune system is so fascinating. It's quite different from men's. Our women's immune system has to do some quite a miraculous thing to allow another human being to like, take up to live in the body. It's actually quite a difficult thing for the immune system to defend again against everything else, but be able to accommodate what is essentially foreign tissue, start growing. So the immune system. That's one of the reasons progesterone will slightly modulate or suppress immune function. But that can be good, actually, because that can help to prevent autoimmune conditions, for example.
- [28:57]
Ali Stuckey
It also makes sense why you're so. I'm just thinking back, like you're so tired at the beginning of pregnancy. I remember all my pregnancies that was the first indicator, like I am so tired. And then you get the positive pregnancy test and you're like, oh, I have another human being that is like taking on energy from my immune system. But I didn't know, I didn't think about that. It also could be the increased progesterone that is kind of tranquilizing you and almost telling your body, hey, you've got this new fragile life inside you. Maybe you should stay inside and take a seat.
- [29:30]
Dr. Laura Bryden
Exactly. And well, part of it is the mismatch between women and society.
- [29:34]
Ali Stuckey
Right.
- [29:35]
Dr. Laura Bryden
So society, I mean it. Well, for different reasons. I mean it's kind of built for men, but I mean that's changing. But like there is this, it's sort of, it's not. Society is not cyclical or it's not. So there's always this like a, like you're on, on, on like you have to kind of be the same every day and women are going to have times when they're, you know, our energy goes down and I, I think so. Again, just referring to, again, I'm sure there are people in your audience who are charting or kind of know about this. This will be something women can embrace. It doesn't mean that during your luteal phase or, or when progesterone is high or during the early phases of progesterone. Doesn't mean you can't do your work. I mean if it's that, if it's that severe, then that's a, you know, a symptom that can be helped by natural treatments or different ways. But I mean that subtle kind of downshifting in energy and feeling a little more introverted. I think it can be worked with and kind of harnessed if with a little bit more self forgiveness and just like self understanding. It's like, I'm not broken. There's nothing wrong with the female body. It's, this is just a natural part of it. You know, I'm in my luteal phase now, so I'm, you know, a little bit more introverted and hungrier. Yeah, just embrace it.
- [30:54]
Ali Stuckey
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- [32:51]
Dr. Laura Bryden
Yeah, okay, great question. It's at its peak about five to seven days after ovulation. Okay, so again, depends on the length of the cycle. So with a classic 28 day cycle, it's at its peak on day 21, which is why doctors roll off and order a day 21 progesterone. But just to go back, circle back to what I was saying before, cycles come in different lengths. So with a healthy ovulatory, as in ovulation is occurring 35 day cycle, which is normal peak progesterone will be on day 28. And I do mention that I talk about this in my book and I have a, I have a article about this on my website, on my site called the Right way to test progesterone. People can, it's free access. People can just google that because it can be again, it can be quite frightening if the doctor orders a day 21 progesterone and it comes back super low. That's because that just, that just means, that could just mean. Well, it could mean you're not ovulating. So that could mean that because like I said, that can happen. But there are different reasons why women don't ovulate but still have periods. But it could also mean it was just tested at the wrong time. Like, namely if it was tested, if someone went on to have a 35 day cycle and they had a 21 day, 21 progesterone test, it's going to be low. That's normal for them. So yeah, it, it peaks about five to seven days after progesterone. It peaks during the high temperature phase. So again, anyone who's charting their cycle, the luteal phase, the progesterone phase, it correlates with body temperature going up by about half a degree Fahrenheit. And it's measurable, just, it's an under the tongue temperature first thing in the morning before you get out of bed. It, there's also different wearables that you can, that can track your temperature for you. And it's not rocket science like it, it's, it's a noticeable shift.
- [34:38]
Ali Stuckey
Yeah.
- [34:38]
Dr. Laura Bryden
So temperature will go up and stay up for the 12 to 14, 12 to 14 days of the luteal phase. And then when your temperature drops, it's quite a handy thing because if you know, when you ovulated and then you see your temperature going down, you know to put menstrual supplies into your bag because your period is coming that day, ye, the next day. Like it, it, it takes a lot of the mystery out of it. Like the, the female body is not that complicated, you know, and this is where body literacy or cycle charting can be quite empowering to sort of know exactly what's happening.
- [35:09]
Ali Stuckey
So that's your basal body temperature, right, that people are taking. And so that's just the temperature that you can take first thing in the morning. And when it goes up, that indicates the ovulation has already happened, Correct?
- [35:23]
Dr. Laura Bryden
Correct, exactly. Yeah. If it, and if you're using it for trying, for pregnancy and some of your viewers might have done this. Yeah. Temperature cannot, by the time, by the time temperature goes up, it's too late to conceive. Like ovulation's already happened and as soon as progesterone kicks in, conception is no longer possible. Like, sorry, I mean, sorry, I don't mean to say that progesterone, I mean if, if conception has happened and progesterone's kicking in, that's good. That means, you know, the pregnancy is going to proceed, but the, the fertile window, the open window when sperm can get into the fallopian tubes and when, you know, they need to be there just before the egg is released, basically, they need to be there just before ovulation. That's the, that's how the system works. So they, they. Sperm. If sperm had to swim all the way from the cervix, like up into the fallopian tubes, it would take them days. But they. Actually, some of your viewers may know this, this. We make something called cervical fluid or fertile mucus. It's like a little sperm escalator. It brings the sperm straight up to where they're supposed to be, like in just minutes.
- [36:31]
Ali Stuckey
Right.
- [36:31]
Dr. Laura Bryden
So that needs to be. That's. And that type of mucus or fertile fluid, cervical fluid is made under the influence of estrogen. So as. And progesterone dries that up. So as soon as progesterone's on the scene, there's no more fertile mucus and the door is closed for sperm. So, yeah, so this is conversely. So if you're trying for pregnancy, you want to have sex before your temperatures go up. If you're, if you're using fertility awareness method to avoid pregnancy, which a lot of people do, which it's a great method because it's, you know, natural. It doesn't suppress ovulation, it doesn't harm the body in any way. It's just tracking what your body's doing. Then after temperatures go up and you're confident they've gone up. So most methods would say they need to be up for a few days, just so you really know that's what's happening and not just like a little, you know, quirky high temperature day. Once temperatures go. Go up, there's literally no chance of conception again that cycle, for that cycle, because pregnancy is.
- [37:35]
Ali Stuckey
Yeah, it totally makes sense to me. Pregnancy is possible on the ovulation day, but also if you have sex the few days before your actual ovulation, conception is also possible because of that cervical fluid, which keeps the sperm alive long enough for the star of the show to show up, which is that released egg. It's not that you're ovulating all of those days, it's just that the cervical fluid is making it possible for that sperm to stay alive. After that, you said the progesterone shows up that, you know, shuts off the cervical fluid. The egg is already gone. If you have sex after that, there's just no way that you'll get pregnant.
- [38:15]
Dr. Laura Bryden
Exactly. Yeah. No, you've just, you've summed it up beautifully. Yeah. And one thing, just one thing again, sort of men are quirky in that they're fertile every day, whereas women are only fertile. It works out to about five or six days of fertility. It's really, it's technically only one day, but. But it's five or six. Because as exactly as you said, the cervical fluid keeps sperm alive. Sperm sits kind of. It's good thing. It's quite hardy. It, you know, sits there for a little while waiting. So that effectively makes it five or six. Five or six days of fertility every cycle. Which when you think about it historically, if you just really think, I mean, through my lens, I'm like, you know, the medications, the contraceptive medications, you know, why target women? We're not even fertile every day. I feel like from the beginning they should have been kind of aimed at men who are fertile every day. But yeah, good point. Yeah.
- [39:14]
Ali Stuckey
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- [41:09]
Dr. Laura Bryden
Yeah. So that's. Yeah, very good questions. Yeah. And it's. It's a delight talking to you. This is great. You know so much about this already, but it's.
- [41:16]
Ali Stuckey
No, no, you're teaching me a lot, so I appreciate it.
- [41:22]
Dr. Laura Bryden
Yeah. So as I said earlier, the medications in hormone in hormonal birth control are not our own hormones. They're not what's called body identical. They're not. If, like, they have different molecular structures and they're quite obviously different. And as the body, as we've said, the body is smart. The body can tell the difference. It's expecting a hormone of a particular configuration. And when it gets a molecule that's a little bit the same, but actually quite different, logically, that's gonna have different effects in the body. And we know that now. It was, I think it was wishful thinking 70, 67, 50, 60 years ago when they thought, oh, this will be. It was kind of like this wishful thinking, oh, this will be good enough for women. I mean, they knew they were shutting off women's own hormones. It's like we're just gonna give them back these molecules and we're just going to hope for the best, basically. And that is turning out to have not been a good idea. So the synthetic estrogen is also different from our own estrogen, but less so. So the synthetic estrogen in hormonal birth control is a little more similar to our own estrogen. So we get some of the same. Some of the same benefits, but not all for estrogen. A really classic example is our own estrogen is so powerful for building bones, and synthetic estrogen just doesn't do the job. And this is why we have studies now showing that if girls are putting on hormonal birth control, young, whichever a lot are now, they do not reach what's called peak bone density. So they. They don't. We're supposed to have the healthy, the strongest bones we're ever going to have by about age 25. And hormonal birth control stops that from happening, which is. Is concerning because that's going to then play out, you know, in another 30 years when they go through menopause, and they're going to potentially be at higher risk of osteoporosis. But in answer to your question, the progestins in hormonal birth control, of which there are like a dozen at least different types, they are. They're all different from each other, and they're all very different from Progesterone, like, they don't share. The only similarity they share is that they thin the uterine lining. Like, they, they kind of act on the uterine lining to prevent its thickening, but that's about it. That's where the difference stops. And yeah, that can have a big difference in the brain because none of the progestins convert to that kind of calming neurosteroid that I mentioned before. None of them do that. So none of them. This is why we see women on the. On hormonal birth control have altered brain structures compared to women who have natural menstrual cycles. But in answer to your question about breast cancer. Yeah, it's obviously the science is still working it out. So what I'll say is, what I can confidently say is what the evidence currently shows is that all progestins slightly increase the risk of breast cancer, not dramatically, like. So most women who take progestins will not get breast cancer, which is good, but they slightly increase the risk from baseline, whereas progesterone, as far as we know, does. Well, it makes sense, right? Our body's own hormone does not increase the risk of progesterone, does not increase the risk of breast cancer, as far as we can tell. And take. Also, it is possible to take progesterone as natural progesterone or body identical progesterone. And as far as we know, that does not also not increase the risk of breast cancer. And that's. That's really good. That's why natural progesterone is now used as part of menopausal hormone therapy, because it's safer for the breasts than progestins.
- [44:51]
Ali Stuckey
Right. That makes sense. Okay. Gosh, there's so many things that I want to ask you just in like, the little time that we have left. So.
- [44:57]
Dr. Laura Bryden
Yeah.
- [44:57]
Ali Stuckey
In your book about repairing your period, a lot of women, they're either coming off the birth control and their birth control pill and they're trying to figure out what their natural cycle even looks like. Or maybe some women have endometriosis, some women have pcos, or some women, they don't know what they have. But I definitely have friends who say I just have horrible periods. Kids, they're really heavy. I have horrible debilitating cramps. And you know, as we said in the beginning, a lot of doctors will say the only remedy is birth control, but you have a natural approach to that. So where should women start? If they're in any of those boats.
- [45:33]
Dr. Laura Bryden
Yeah. And it's really good to finish the Interview on this, this point because obviously right from the beginning, when I wrote my first book Period to Paramanial I and it grew out of my work with, with women. So I mean, you can't really, I can't, you know, criticize hormonal birth control without being able to offer some kind of alternative. Because as I said at the beginning, yeah, it is true that hormonal birth control can relieve period symptoms. It doesn't always work to be fair. It's not like it fixes everything, but it can relieve pain and certainly it can relieve heavy bleeding. But there are other ways to do that. And the actual approach, I'm sure you won't be surprised to hear, you know, there's not one size fits all recipe for a perfect period. It really is, it involves troubleshooting as to what the problem is, whether it's irregular periods that could be caused by different mechanisms. You sort of have to consider what's going on with that woman, what the explanation is, you know, pain and heavy bleeding. Depending on what it is. You sort of, it's not complicated. I mean my book, as you, My book is a manual, it's like a troubleshooting manual to figure what is your, you know, what is your symptom, what did the doctor say, what is the likely cause? Then this is, you know, what you would take. But I'll give you an example which is not a one size fits all, but it's just kind of. I'll give you two examples which are kind of my favorite ones because they can really move the needle on symptoms. Especially I'll add for teenagers, young women's bodies just respond well. Young people's in general bodies respond quite quickly, which is just because they're young, I think. So, you know, the super, you know, if, if young women or teenager, teenagers are having very heavy periods, painful periods. One of the things I learned early on and that I've just seen in practice again and again is that it can improve by switching the kind of dairy, cow's dairy they're eating so normal anyway without getting too deep into it. But like this, there's something called a one casein. It's a particular dairy protein that seems to quite inflammatory for some people, not everyone. And part of that inflammation can manifest as heavier flow or more painful flow or premenstrual mood symptoms. So just switching to. It's really about switching to Jersey cow or I don't know if you have it in the States, but like we call it A2 milk here. So they're the cows that don't have the A1 casein. So it's, it's becoming more and more accessible. Also, goat and sheep dairy do not have that inflammatory casein protein. So that, that's, that's just quite a simple change. A lot of my patients are well able to do that. And it's still, you know, nutritious. It's still nutritious dairy. It's just not the inflammatory kind. So that, that can make, that can really make a big difference. And the great thing about it is it can, it can happen quite quickly. So usually within two or three cycles, a woman can see if that's going to make a difference or not. And then another just really simple one. A lot, as you know from my book, a lot of the treatments are, I tried to keep them simple and easy to access and inexpensive because I didn't want this to become, it shouldn't have to be a complicated thing to treat periods. So another example is the nutrient zinc. A zinc supplement can relieve period pain. And to the point that there, and there's a citation in the book, there's been at least one clinical trial where they tested zinc in direct comparison to the pillow for period pain. And they found that zinc worked as well and as the pill. And I was. And then they make this funny comment in this, in the study. I just never forget when I read this where they're like, but the advantage of zinc is it's less. You know, it's, it's cheaper than the pill. And then, but in my brain I'm like, oh, and the other advantage is it doesn't shut down the menstrual cycle like it lets women. You know, it doesn't shut down hormones too. It's a big relieve period pain. If people are going to try zinc, though, I always have to make sure I say this. Don't let a girl or don't take it or don't let your daughter take it on an empty stomach. Because zinc on an empty stomach can make you feel sick, like nausea. But if you take it with food and around the 30 milligram dose, it's quite safe. So obviously I wouldn't want to recommend things today that are not safe to try, but it's one of those sort of safer, highly effective ones, inexpensive.
- [49:51]
Ali Stuckey
So it sounds like there are a lot of potential natural remedies for the menstrual issues that people have that aren't suppressing someone's very necessary ovulatory cycle because like you said, all of the different hormones and how they're produced and when they're produced, how much is produced during the cycle. It's not just affecting ovulation, it's affecting our brain, it's defect, it's affecting our moods, it's affecting our decision making. So many different things that we're completely shutting down when we just have these artificial hormones that we're pumping in our bodies.
- [50:28]
Dr. Laura Bryden
I know. So well put an analogy I sometimes give. It's one of these things again from a historical perspective. It's kind of a head scratching. Like what were, what just happened here over the last, you know, 60 to 70 years. You know, what's happened to young, to women would be like saying to men, you know, we're going to give you this medication that switches off your testicular function and it's going to switch off your own testosterone. And instead of testosterone, you're going to have this other molecule that's kind of like testosterone, but not really. And it's going to affect your brain and it's, you know, going to affect your metabolism. But don't worry because that's what we do. You know, that's what all the other men are doing. Like it just, if you see it through that lens, it's, it's actually crazy. I mean I, so I obviously I feel I'm quite passionate about it. I mean, I think I'm confident there are going to be better options coming for. We haven't even really talked about that. But there's other options coming for avoiding pregnancy. Like it's 2025. We don't have to shut down women's entire hormonal systems just to avoid pregnancy. Like there's other ways.
- [51:33]
Ali Stuckey
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- [53:28]
Dr. Laura Bryden
Absolutely. Depending on the, the type that will very much depend on which progestin. So this is where we have to get into the kind of. Which we won't today but like, you know, get into the details of like nutting out like which progestin. Because some progestin probably are fine. Some promote metabolic dysfunction as you've said, visceral fat, insulin resistance and you know, the, and my third book is actually all around metabolic health and insulin resistance. So I have a whole chapter called the Female Hormone side of Things and looking, looking at all the different effects of our own hormones versus hormonal birth control on metabolism. But one thing I just want to sort of end by saying is almost from the beginning of hormonal birth control, women were saying, oh, it's affecting my mood, it's, I gained weight. You know, it's affected my sex drive. Like, you know, these observations were coming and even, even more serious ones like there was, you know, the blood clots that were the fatal blood clots that can happen on hormonal birth control. Those were at first dismissed. It's like, oh, that's not a thing. You know, that's not a thing where you're imagining that, that link. And then, but over the, you know, decades now we are getting, yeah, there's, as you say, there's been this old narrative. Oh no, it's just that you're, you just need to, you know, eat less. And it's, you're imagining this effect, metabolic effect. But it's now, yeah, the research is Sort of proving that that that is there. And it, it's changed a lot because. So I've been, as you. I've been practicing a long time. I've been trying to talk about this for literally decades. Even 10 years ago, especially around mood, especially around the possibility of negative mood effects from hormonal birth control. Even 10 years ago, it was not really possible in social media. I was on Twitter at that time. Like, I would occasionally say, you know, I think the pill. Well, any clinician would tell you that the pill or hormonal birth control can, can not in everyone, but can cause anxiety and depression. And there was this immediate, like, slap down is like, no, you know, that's not been proven. Or it's been proven that that's not true. It's like. But then in 2016 was a watershed moment, actually, there was a huge Danish study in 2016 that pretty much definitively proved that there is a link with negative mood side effects. And from that point on, the conversation has changed. And now, even on social media, certainly speaking with other doctors, more mainstream doctors, it's like, yeah, you know, I have heard about that. They're now like, after decades of saying to women, you're imagining it. They're not like, yeah, that's, that's, that's a thing. It could affect your mood. So, you know, potentially consider that.
- [56:03]
Ali Stuckey
Hmm. Yes. Okay. Can I ask you one last question? Because there are women out there who are going through perimenopause and menopause, who feel very alone, who feel like no one understands their symptoms and there's no help for their symptoms. You mentioned at the beginning bioidentical hormone therapy. And I've heard women talk about that when it. In relation to perimenopause and menopause. And I don't know very much about it, but what would you tell the woman who is about to go through or is going through some of these menopausal symptoms? How can they seek helpful natural relief?
- [56:36]
Dr. Laura Bryden
Yeah, okay. Yeah, great question. So my second book, Hormone Repair Manual, is all about perimenopause. I didn't put the title perimenopause. I didn't put the word perimenopause in the title because even just three or four years ago, when that, when I wrote that book, it perimenopause wasn't in the common. This conversation. But now, I mean, a lot of women have heard that word and know that it's the years leading up to menopause. So perimenopause happens while you're still having regular periods potentially. If a woman's in her 40s, she almost by definition is in perimenopause. It's not a bad thing. It's not a medical condition. It's. I call it second puberty. It's the transition. So we have the transition into our ovarian hormones and then we have the transition out of them and it's a natural life event. One thing I just want to say at the outset is menopause, or the cessation of the stopping of periods is not an accident of living too long. Our body, I'm very confident in this, like we are adapted. We are meant to live two or three decades past the end of periods. So our body knows how to do that. So it's not a, it's not a, you know, medical condition that needs treating. That said, women, a lot of women can experience symptoms and some women can get benefit from hormone therapy. There's. And I'm, I'm not against hormone therapy at all, but there are. Not everyone needs it to be fair. Like. So my second book has all the different natural strategies that can improve night sweats and hot flashes and mood, you know, sleep. Actually the number one complaint is usually sleep disturbance. So there's lots of strategies for that. And then just briefly on the bioidentical thing. So as I mentioned at the moment in 2025, thank goodness, we are finally at the point where body identical or hormone hormone therapy that is exactly identical to human hormones is pretty much the standard. It's not. You have to still read the label and see what your doctor gave you. But unlike hormonal birth control, which is not body identical at all, which is a totally different thing, most hormone, menopausal hormone therapy is natural these days. It is natural estrogen and progesterone, which is great. In the US natural progesterone is called. One of the main brands is prometrium. So that might have, you know, been prescribed to some of your listeners. So just, I mean I have, I've written about this in my book and on my, again on my site they can, people can find like a list of. They actually list the medications and whether they're the hormonal therapy type brands and whether they're body identical or not. So it's great. But like the history of it is over the last few decades. Like when I started my career in the 90s, my. One of with my, my women in perimenopause or menopause were coming to me. One of the main things I was doing at that time was taking them off the old school type of HRT and switching them to the natural like body identical type because mainly because of what we said right at the outset that natural or body identical, which just means identical to the body progesterone does not increase the risk of breast cancer the way progestins do. So that was the writing was on the wall for that decades ago. So that's why naturopathic doctors were a lot of our job at that time was switching people to a better type of hormone therapy which has now finally become mainstream, which is great.
- [59:59]
Ali Stuckey
Yes. Well, thank you so much for that information. That was super helpful in clarifying. And we'll have to have you back. I know it's, you know, difficult with the time differences between New Zealand and here, but I appreciate you making the time and we'll make it work hopefully to do a part two because there's so much that we didn't get to cover. Dr. Laura Bryden, where can people find you if they want to find your stuff and learn more from you?
- [60:23]
Dr. Laura Bryden
Yeah. Great. And thanks again so much for having me. Ali, it was really great talking with you. I'm easy to find. So everything is@lara brighton.com from there. All my social media is at Lara Briden. I have a newsletter as well there. I just share, you know, tidbits of research on, on women's periods and I'm a writer. So actually my newsletter is kind of one of my favorites offerings to the, to the world. But yeah, so everything is there. And, and my books, of course, Period Repair Manual, Hormone Repair Manual. And my latest book is Metabolism Repair for Women, which is all about, it's kind of about weight loss, but it's more broadly like deeper. It's about metabolic health and insulin resistance and.
- [61:04]
Ali Stuckey
Awesome.
- [61:04]
Dr. Laura Bryden
Quite an important topic.
- [61:06]
Ali Stuckey
Yes, very much so. Well, thank you so much, Dr. Bryden. I really appreciate it.
- [61:09]
Dr. Laura Bryden
It.