Podcast Summary

Podcast: Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey
Episode: Ep 1238 | Woke Activists Are Infiltrating Homeschooling | Robert Bortins
Date: September 5, 2025
Guests: Robert Bortins, CEO of Classical Conversations

Overview

In this episode, Allie Beth Stuckey hosts Robert Bortins, CEO of Classical Conversations, for a candid discussion on how progressive ideologies—what the hosts call “wokeness”—are infiltrating the homeschooling space and Christian education. They also explore the history and trajectory of public education in America, the impact of school choice policies, the troubling rise of technology in private Christian schools, and the broader responsibility of Christian parents in discipling their children.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction to Classical Conversations and the Homeschool Landscape

• Origins: Classical Conversations was started in 1997 by Robert’s mother, Lee Bortins, aiming to support homeschool moms using the classical education method and a strong Christian worldview.
  • "It really revolves around community. So once a week, students are getting together with a trained parent tutor and going over the curriculum together in a group." (Bortins, 01:22)
• Mission: Not merely Bible class, but a belief that all subjects reflect God’s nature.
  • "We believe two plus two equals four reflects God's nature, that history reflects his timeline for humanity..." (Bortins, 01:45)

2. Wokeness Entering Homeschool Curricula

• Market Shift: As homeschooling grows post-2020, some curriculums originally written by Christians and for Christians are being sold to large, often secular, educational companies. These companies alter or secularize the content.
  • "You might be to rely on like 10 years ago suddenly gets sold to a secular organization like Pearson and they're changing the curriculum up." (Bortins, 02:49)
  • Example: Saxon Math’s transition from Christian writer to secular publishing under Pearson.
• Need for Discernment: Parents should actively research curriculum origins and changes, and seek out conventions and firsthand material reviews to ensure alignment with their worldview.
  • "Just see if that homeschool curriculum had been sold to a PE firm or someone else recently, because...over the next couple of years, going to make it very secular." (Bortins, 05:44)
• Worldview Creep: Even formerly Christian or neutral curricula may now reflect progressive ideologies, sometimes subtly, as Christian families are no longer the only significant market.

3. Progressive Activism in Homeschool Events

• Recent homeschool conventions have hosted sessions like "All History Is Queer History" and talks on “decoloniality,” signaling a visible shift to progressivism.
  • "Virginia Homeschoolers On Convention in Richmond, Virginia, featured sessions like All History Is Queer History, led by a transgender rights activist..." (Stuckey, 08:01)
• Predicted Regulatory Crackdown: Both hosts warn that this could be used to justify more regulation over homeschooling.
  • "That’s going to be one of the things I’m afraid that they’re going to use to try to put more regulations on homeschooling..." (Bortins, 08:48)

4. Historical Roots of Public Education—A Christian Conservative Critique

• The episode connects modern education philosophy to 19th-century figures like Robert Owen, Karl Marx, and later, Horace Mann and John Dewey.
  • "Robert Owen...wanted to kind of abolish the three Trinity, the trinity of evil. He called it, which was private property, religion and marriage." (Bortins, 15:49)
• The hosts argue that public education was always intended to be a social engineering and secularizing project, not value-neutral or even academically focused.
  • "It’s never been about educating young people. It’s all about a different discipleship program..." (Bortins, 17:19)
• Teachers’ colleges, especially Columbia’s Teachers College, are singled out as entry points for “communist” and collectivist ideas.

5. Christian Education vs. Secular/“Neutral” Curriculum

• Stuckey and Bortins reject the idea that education can be neutral or a la carte between "faith" and "reality."
  • "Education itself is not neutral." (Bortins, 06:21)
• Christian parents must critically evaluate not only public schooling but also private and Christian institutions and their curricular worldview.

6. Critique of Social Emotional Learning (SEL) and Therapy in Schools

• SEL as Secular Discipleship: The hosts see SEL as an old tool for reorienting children’s loyalty to the state over family and faith.
  • "Run from social emotional learning. That, that'd be the, the main thing, main takeaway." (Bortins, 28:57)
• Overemphasis on group therapy and feelings is viewed as counterproductive, potentially making children more self-centered and less resilient.
  • "The over cultivation of empathy towards particular, you know, stated victim actually makes them more cruel to the out group." (Stuckey, 32:05)

7. Technology in Christian and Private Schools

• Growing use of iPads and Chromebooks is criticized, even at elite Christian schools.
  • "Steve Jobs famously said he wouldn’t let his own kids touch an iPad until they were 18...The people who are making the technology are not letting their own flesh and blood touch it." (Bortins, 46:38)
• The hosts argue traditional methods—books, handwriting—support deeper learning, and that edtech trends mainly benefit institutional control and entertainment addiction.

8. Critical Examination of “School Choice” Policies

• Pro-School Choice Argument (Stuckey): School choice empowers parents, gives children alternatives to failing schools, and supports education that fits the family’s values.
• Bortins’ Cautious/Negative Perspective:
  • School choice in the form of universal vouchers extends state authority and undermines private funding models.
  • Government money inevitably comes with government control and attracts private equity and secular influence into the private school market.
  • "If the government is paying your kids education bill, you’re co-parenting with them." (Bortins, 56:41)
  • Cites international examples (e.g., Sweden) where voucher programs led to nation-wide curriculum mandates and price controls.
• Instead, Bortins advocates for families and churches to shoulder educational responsibility and cost, preserving true independence.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the danger of naivete in homeschool curriculum:
  • “You really got to understand that education itself is not neutral...Some of these say, you know, Christ is Lord...and some of them do not.” (Bortins, 06:21)
• On the historical roots of secular education:
  • “The teachers union started out of Columbia’s Teachers College...the mindset of destroying the family, destroying religion, and destroying private property.” (Bortins, 19:00)
• On school choice and government funding:
  • “The system is actually expanding to cover private schools and homeschoolers...it is undermining fathers who should be out there taking and providing for their families...” (Bortins, 51:13)
  • “Whoever pays the pipe viper picks the tune. There’s no such thing as a free lunch.” (Bortins, 56:41)
• On privatization leading to secular creep:
  • “Look at Harvard, look at all the Ivy Leagues...All founded on biblical principles. Now they're all bastions of atheism.” (Bortins, 53:20)
• On educational screen time:
  • “Every time I see like a teacher on Facebook, oh, I’m fundraising to get iPads in my school...you are literally spending time and energy to make your kids dumber.” (Bortins, 47:04)

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Time | Topic/Quote | |----------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:53 | Introduction to Classical Conversations; what makes it different | | 02:19 | Wokeness and secularization of homeschool curriculum | | 05:44 | How to discern curriculum’s worldview and ownership | | 08:01 | Progressive sessions at homeschool conventions—“All History Is Queer History” | | 15:49 | Robert Owen, Karl Marx, and the secular roots of U.S. public education | | 19:00 | Teachers unions and Columbia Teachers College as conduits for secular activism | | 28:57 | Rejection of social-emotional learning (SEL) | | 32:05 | Commentary on group therapy for children; reference to Abigail Shrier’s "Bad Therapy" | | 46:38 | Technology/iPads in Christian schools; reference to Steve Jobs and Mark Zuckerberg | | 49:58 | School choice debate—parental rights, government funding, and religious liberty | | 53:20 | Government funding leads to strings, control, and secularization of private schools | | 56:41 | “If the government is paying your kids education bill, you’re co-parenting with them.” | | 58:54 | International consequences of universal voucher programs | | 62:41 | True independence is found in funding education privately, not through government redistribution | | 64:51 | Announcement of Bortins’ upcoming book: "Weaponized: How Karl Marx Won American Education and How We Can Win It Back" |

Conclusion

This episode presents a conservative Christian critique of prevailing trends in education, both public and private. Allie Beth Stuckey and Robert Bortins warn against complacency in the homeschool world, urge parents to reassert their God-given responsibility for their children's education, and caution against exchanging public school “indoctrination” for state-funded private alternatives that may drift in the same direction. The discussion is rich with historical context, practical advice, and impassioned calls for discernment, activism, and local community-building in Christian education.

For more information:

• https://www.classicalconversations.com
• Find Robert Bortins on X (Twitter): @TheRobertBShow
• Podcast: Refining Rhetoric (YouTube & podcast apps)
• Upcoming book (Jan 2026): Weaponized: How Karl Marx Won American Education and How We Can Win It Back (with Alex Newman)