Podcast Summary: Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey

Episode 1248 | Kirkism vs. Kellerism: Why The 'Third Way' Fails

Date: October 1, 2025
Host: Allie Beth Stuckey (Blaze Podcast Network)

Overview & Main Theme

In this compelling and timely episode, Allie Beth Stuckey addresses the ongoing debate within evangelical circles about the most effective approach to evangelism and cultural engagement in an increasingly hostile world. The episode centers on two contrasting legacies: Tim Keller’s “Third Way” or “Kellerism,” which emphasizes political neutrality and winsomeness, versus Charlie Kirk’s bold, unapologetically conservative and confrontational style of evangelism (“Kirkism”). Allie evaluates which method is more effective for modern Christians—particularly in light of recent cultural shifts, the passing of both influential figures, and her personal observations and experiences.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining “The Third Way” (Kellerism)

• Context: Tim Keller’s “Third Way” advocates that Christians should neither fully align with the political right nor left, but maintain focus on the gospel, engage culture, and adopt biblically faithful positions from both sides.
  • Quote: “The church must neither simply assimilate to the world’s values nor isolate itself from the world. The gospel gives us a third way.” (00:02)
• Examples:
  • Christians should care for racial justice and the poor (left), but hold to sexual ethics (right).
  • Keller’s work impacted many, including Allie herself:
    • Quote: “Tim Keller…helped shape my faith, especially in high school when I was digging into theology.” (08:00)
  • Critique: Many Kellerite voices, such as Russell Moore and David French, have—per Allie—shifted significantly to the left and distanced themselves from political conservatism and cultural battles.

2. Critique of Third Wayism’s Outcomes

• Shifting Left: Allie observes that many Third Way evangelicals have compromised on biblical truth under the guise of winsomeness and engagement.
  • Quote: “Whether Keller intended this or not, many people who have adopted his Third Way position…have very demonstrably shifted to the left in the past 10 years.” (13:20)
• Winsomeness as Compromise:
  • Winsomeness often becomes an excuse to repudiate conservatism or avoid controversial issues.
  • The tendency to tone police or avoid hard truths.

3. Tim Keller’s Associations and Guidance

• Francis Collins Connection:
  • Keller supported and platformed Collins, despite Collins’ NIH leadership during controversial pandemic mandates, support for LGBTQ initiatives, and ethical concerns about research.
  • Quote: “Keller defended Collins many times…Keller compared Collins to Daniel in the Bible.” (24:50)
• Stance on Race & Social Justice:
  • Keller accepted concepts such as systemic racism, white privilege, and often framed justice in progressive terms.
    • Memorable Moment:
      • (35:57) Tim Keller (audio clip): “If you have white skin, it’s worth a million dollars over a lifetime…then you actually have to say, ‘I didn’t deserve this…’ I’m standing on the shoulders of others who got that through injustice.”
  • Critique: Allie rebuts, providing statistics about violence and questioning the real-world impact of “white privilege.”

4. Charlie Kirk’s Approach (Kirkism)

• Characteristics:
  • Combines political and cultural engagement with direct gospel proclamation.
  • Clear, blunt, unapologetic, and unwavering.
  • Advocates for aligning policy and government with Christian values.
    • Quote: “He completely rejected worldly definitions of racism, inequity and social justice.” (29:30)
  • Example of effectiveness: Personal testimony of a listener, Jacqueline, whose journey from New Age to Christianity was influenced by Kirk's boldness, even after initial offense. (31:40)
    • Memorable Quote: “All our focus needs to be on Him. The more I listened, the more it all made sense…the more I could feel Jesus calling me.” (Jacqueline, 32:10)
  • Reports of numerous stories where listeners’ lives were changed, family reconciliations occurred, or faith deepened through Kirk’s approach.

5. Contrasting the Two Methods

• Societal Engagement
  • Keller: Pull back from direct culture wars, focus on “faithful presence.”
  • Kirk: Engage head-on, integrating faith with conservative political activism.
• Approach to Offense
  • Keller: Avoid causing offense to win a hearing with skeptics.
  • Kirk: Accept that offense is part of gospel proclamation and cultural truth-telling.
• Political Power
  • Keller: Christians should avoid seeking power (“Jesus saved not by taking power…”).
  • Kirk/Allie: Christians should not abdicate political influence, as it affects the vulnerable—advocates for righteous influence and application of biblical justice in policy. (46:40)

6. Tone, Tactics & Effectiveness

• Is winsomeness (charm/gentleness) a biblical requirement?
  • Allie: “Winsomeness is good unless it leads to compromise. Bold, clear truth-telling bears fruit; offense is inevitable.” (57:50)
• Different callings, different regions, appropriate diversity in presentation
  • A Manhattan pastor may need a different style than one in rural Oklahoma.
  • Quote: “The posture may be different, but the positions should not be different.” (01:01:24)
  • But: The “Third Way” posture frequently leads to positional compromise.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [35:57] Tim Keller on White Privilege:
  “If you have white skin, it’s worth a million dollars over a lifetime over somebody who doesn’t have white skin… I didn’t deserve this… I’m standing on the shoulders of other people who got that through injustice.”
• [32:10] Listener Jacqueline (testimony about Kirk):
  “I was very offended by Charlie at first, but…the more I listened, the more it all made sense…the more I could feel Jesus calling me. So I picked up a Bible and I began reading.”
• [53:50] Charlie Kirk (audio):
  “John Adams seamlessly said the Constitution was only written for a moral and religious people. One of the reasons we're living through a constitutional crisis is that we no longer have a Christian nation, but we have a Christian form of government, and they're incompatible.”
• [55:45] Kirk on “He Gets Us” campaign:
  “These ridiculous television advertisements…‘He gets us’ is the most narcissistic Christian ad ever… He doesn't get you when you're watching pornography…He saves you from your sin and you must bring yourself to repentance…That's everything wrong with American Christianity.”
• [56:32] Kirk on Spiritual Roots of Political Problems:
  “Spiritual problems manifest themselves into cultural problems that then become political problems… The law is a school teacher to Christ… Young men are becoming more and more conservative… hungry to get involved in local church.”
• Allie’s Core Critique [01:03:55]:
  “When a posture (of Third Wayism) continually leads to compromise…that’s when things become a problem…If I were to declare a winner in this moment, I would say absolute clarity and boldness, completely unashamed, is the way to go.”

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Definition & Summary of Third Way (Kellerism): 00:02 – 10:00
• Critique of Third Way in Evangelicalism: 13:20 – 25:00
• Keller’s Influence & Friendship with Francis Collins: 24:50 – 29:30
• Listener Testimonies of Kirk’s Impact: 31:40 – 34:40
• Keller on White Privilege (audio): 35:57 – 36:25
• Analysis of Keller’s Race & Justice Views: 36:25 – 41:06
• Keller on Abortion Nuance & Sexuality: 41:06 – 45:23
• Evaluation of Tone/Effectiveness & Review of Charlie Kirk Clips: 53:50 – 57:10
• Conclusion & Allie’s Final Take: 01:01:24 – 01:08:00

Conclusion & Allie’s Takeaways

• Different methods for different callings are fine, provided that posture does not mutate into positional compromise.
• In this cultural moment, clarity and boldness are necessary:
  • “Measure your obedience not by the world’s reaction, but by God’s approval.” (01:05:10)
• Political involvement is a Christian responsibility for the sake of the vulnerable—Christians should steward their influence, not abdicate it.
• Winsomeness is valuable but secondary to truth; overemphasis leads to compromise.
• Effectiveness is measured not by being liked but by faithfulness to biblical truth and fruit borne in changed lives.
  • Quote: “You are not going to win people to the cross by condoning or compromising on the things that Christ died for or died to save them from.” (01:07:10)

Summary Table: Kellerism vs. Kirkism

| Aspect | Tim Keller/Third Way | Charlie Kirk/Confrontational | |------------------------|-----------------------------------------------|-----------------------------| | Political Stance | Neutral, adopts positions from both sides | Bold conservative activism | | Approach to Culture | Faithful presence, nuanced, winsome | Direct engagement, unashamed| | Evangelism Style | Gentle, relational, avoids offense | Clear, blunt, unapologetic | | Controversial Issues | Careful, sometimes ambiguous | Speaks plainly, confronts directly | | Fruit/Effectiveness* | Led many, but followers often veer left | Testimonies of life change, bold stands |

*As evaluated by Allie Beth Stuckey.

Final Thoughts

Allie Beth Stuckey concludes that, especially in today's climate, the Kirkism approach—clear, bold, unashamed proclamation of truth—has proven culturally and evangelistically effective, leading to tangible transformation and conversions without unnecessary compromise. Christians must evaluate methods by biblical fidelity and results, not by societal approval or offense minimization. The “Third Way” has value in tone, but too easily slips into worldly alignment. Ultimately, love and truth must remain inseparable in thought, speech, and cultural engagement.