Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey (Ep 1251)

‘Not Giving Martyr’: A Response to Jackie Hill Perry’s Charlie Kirk Comments

Date: October 8, 2025
Host: Allie Beth Stuckey
Podcast Network: Blaze Podcast Network

Episode Overview

In this episode, Allie Beth Stuckey addresses recent remarks made by Jackie Hill Perry on the “With the Perrys” podcast regarding Charlie Kirk’s death and the label of "martyr." She examines what it means to be a Christian martyr by biblical standards, critiques the Pope's comments on the death penalty and pro-life ethos, and discusses contrasting societal reactions to Charlie Kirk's and George Floyd’s deaths through a Christian, conservative lens.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jackie Hill Perry’s Comments and the ‘Martyr’ Debate

• Background: A clip from “With the Perrys” podcast, featuring Christian author Jackie Hill Perry, was widely shared with Allie’s audience. Perry challenges the idea that Charlie Kirk was a “martyr,” saying his words “didn’t give martyr.”
• Allie’s Initial Response:
  • Allie recognizes her theological and political differences with Perry and is not surprised by the critique (01:50).
  • Stuckey questions the vagueness of Perry’s comments: “What specifically were the things that he said that weren't, quote, unquote, giving martyr?” (04:00).
  • She critiques the phrase “didn’t give martyr” as flippant:

    “I take issue with how that is phrased because that's such a, like a flippant way to be talking about the assassination of a brother in Christ.” (04:22)

2. Defining Martyrdom Biblically

• Etymology and Definition:
  • “Martyr” in Greek is martus, meaning “witness to the truth.”
  • A martyr is not someone who is sinless, never offensive, or always aligns with our views, but one who affirms Christian truth and is killed for it (05:30).
• Examples from Scripture:
  • John the Baptist: Beheaded for defending biblical marriage, not for gentle speech (09:00).
  • Stephen (Acts 7): Stoned after boldly calling out the sins of the religious leaders:

    “You stiff-necked people, uncircumcised in heart and ears…you always resist the Holy Spirit…” (Acts 7, referenced at 13:39)

  • Allie notes neither were perfect, and both might be considered harsh by modern standards.
• Key Message:
  • Martyrdom is not defined by tone or flawlessness but by death for gospel truth (14:40).
  • Notable quote:

    “If that happened to anyone that I disagree with on...race and social justice, but they're Christians, they're preaching the gospel...I would not be quibbling on a podcast three weeks later about whether or not they're martyred.” (18:30)

3. Human Decency & Double Standards in Response to Deaths

• Charlie's Death: Allie argues that the bare minimum response is not to celebrate a human's death, regardless of disagreements (19:40).
  • Quote:

    “You don't get an atta boy from me for not cheering on the slaughter of a human being. Again, that is bare minimum.” (20:48)

• Comparison to George Floyd:
  • Allie draws a contrast: after George Floyd's death, negative remarks were suppressed out of sensitivity (23:07).
  • She criticizes the immediate quest for “nuance” regarding Charlie’s character, questioning the consistency of empathy and public discourse standards.

4. Media "Both Sides" Arguments and Objective Moral Differences

• Atlantic Article Analysis:
  • Allie refers to Thomas Chatterton Williams’ Atlantic piece equating the right’s response to Kirk with the left’s for George Floyd (27:07).
  • She rebuts this as a “minimizing” stance that ignores the substantive moral differences—Charlie Kirk’s martyrdom rooted in gospel truth, Floyd’s death linked with criminality and mass rioting.
• Historical Context:
  • Allie recounts George Floyd’s criminal history and the violent aftermath of his death, sharply distinguishing this from the reaction to Kirk’s murder (34:22).

5. Public Figures on ‘Not Comparable’ Reactions

• Victor Davis Hanson Quote (Historian):
  • “They say this is the conservatives' George Floyd moment. It is not a George Floyd moment...Charlie Kirk was not anything like George Floyd. There was nothing at all similar.” (32:28)
• Allie’s Extension:
  • The fruit of the ideologies:

    “A tree is known by its fruit. After Charlie’s death...you see people preaching the gospel, believing the gospel, getting baptized...The reaction to Charlie's death reflected everything that he stood for. Only candles burned.” (33:00)

  • She underscores that no violence followed Kirk’s assassination—“we had vigils after Charlie Kirk” vs. “violence after George Floyd.” (33:40)
  • The right’s response is spiritual growth; the left’s was chaos and destruction (34:22).

6. Pope Leo’s Comments on the Death Penalty and “Pro-Life”

• Pope’s Quote:
  • “Someone who says I'm against abortion but says I'm in favor of the death penalty is not really pro life…” (40:54)
• Allie’s Critique:
  • She affirms it’s biblical to support both the sanctity of innocent life (against abortion) and the justice of the death penalty for murderers (Genesis 9, Romans 13) (41:30).

  • “If the Pope isn’t infallible...then it’s okay for me to disagree with him… If he’s talking about the death penalty not being pro-life, then what he is essentially saying is that God is not pro-life because God is the one that commands the death penalty.” (41:22)

• Notable Arguments:
  • The commandment is “Thou shall not murder,” not “Thou shall not kill.”
  • She distinguishes between innocent life (unborn child) and guilty (convicted murderer):

    “To conflate the just execution of someone who has received due process...and the execution of an unborn child...you instinctively know that's not true. But you should also biblically understand that's not true...” (46:08)

• On Turn The Other Cheek:
  • Allie notes Jesus’ teaching was about personal relationships, not governmental justice. Governments are biblically sanctioned to punish evil (Romans 13) (51:05).

7. Immigrant Treatment and Borders

• Allie challenges the Pope’s allusion that legal immigration enforcement is necessarily inhumane, referencing God’s design of nations and borders (56:25).
• Calls for specificity rather than moralizing generalities.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Martyrdom:

  “Martyr is not someone who’s perfect…not someone who never talks about politics...not someone who never offends you.” (14:50)

• On Minimum Compassion:

  “Bare minimum human decency. Bernie Sanders gave a better statement than this. Bernie Sanders is an atheist. His statement after Charlie Kirk was murdered was more respectful than this.” (21:32)

• On Comparing George Floyd and Charlie Kirk:

  “After George Floyd, we had violence. After Charlie Kirk, we had vigils...No police officer is scared for his life after Charlie Kirk died.” (32:58)

• On The Pope’s Death Penalty Stance:

  “If God says something and God is love...then the most loving thing we can do is agree with him.” (43:45)

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment Overview | |-----------|------------------| | 00:01 | Introduction & context for response to Jackie Hill Perry | | 02:31 | Discussion of Perry's reasoning for "not martyr"—Allie pushes for specificity | | 05:30 | Biblical and etymological definition of martyr | | 09:00 | Example: John the Baptist as a non-flawless martyr | | 13:39 | Example: Stephen and biblical boldness | | 18:30 | Allie’s personal stance: not debating martyrdom for Christian victims | | 20:48 | “Bare minimum” standard for not celebrating death | | 23:07 | Reflection on posthumous treatment of George Floyd vs. Charlie Kirk | | 27:07 | Atlantic article analysis—critiquing “both sides” argument | | 32:28 | Victor Davis Hanson: Not a “George Floyd moment” | | 33:00 | Christian vs. secular societal “fruit” after each death | | 40:54 | Pope Leo XIV audio: stance on pro-life consistency and death penalty | | 41:22 | Allie’s biblical argument for the death penalty | | 46:08 | Innocent life vs. guilty life: abortion v. death penalty | | 51:05 | Jesus and "turn the other cheek": distinction in application | | 56:25 | Discussion of border enforcement as biblical and moral |

Takeaways for Listeners

• Martyrdom is rooted in biblical witness for truth, not in the perfection or universal likeability of the person.
• Compassion and the basic respect for life should not be seen as a moral high ground; it’s the floor for civil society.
• Equating George Floyd and Charlie Kirk’s deaths ignores vast moral, theological, and societal differences; the response to each reveals much about underlying motives and values.
• Christian positions on the death penalty and immigration should be rooted in Scripture, not modern sensibilities or papal opinion.
• Cultural Discernment: Be wary of “nuance” that excuses moral relativism or fails to honor biblical clarity.

Original Language & Tone:
The summary preserves Allie’s articulate, direct, and sarcastically incisive style, interwoven with scriptural citation and cultural analysis.

For More:
Listeners are encouraged to revisit [Acts 7 for Stephen’s story], [Genesis 9 and Romans 13 on justice], or to review the referenced “With the Perrys” podcast segment for context.