Podcast Summary

Podcast: Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey
Episode: Ep 1261 | Lies Your Therapist Tells You | Greg Gifford
Date: October 31, 2025
Guest: Dr. Greg Gifford, Licensed Biblical Counselor, Professor at The Master’s University

Episode Overview

In this episode, Allie Beth Stuckey sits down with Dr. Greg Gifford, a professor and biblical counselor, to discuss the misconceptions in modern psychology and therapy from a Christian worldview. They examine the difference between secular psychology and biblical counseling, the mind-brain distinction, and how diagnoses like depression, anxiety, and ADHD are best approached for Christians. The episode critically evaluates common psychological narratives and encourages believers to prioritize Scripture over culturally promoted self-focus in their mental health approach.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Difference Between Biblical Counseling and Secular Psychology

Timestamps: 02:08–06:04; 62:17–65:07

• Dr. Gifford introduces biblical counseling:

  • Uses the Bible as the foundation and authority for helping people, distinct from secular approaches that often disregard the soul and spiritual aspects.
  • Critiques Christians seeking counsel from non-believers:

    “This should be really weird to a believer that I would go to an unbelieving therapist who doesn't believe in the soul, doesn't believe in the gospel, doesn't believe in redemption, forgiveness…” (05:00, B)

• Distinction clarified:

  • Christian counseling may add Bible verses atop secular frameworks.
  • Biblical counseling builds its entire methodology, understanding of people, and solutions from Scripture.

    “The difference comes down to what's the source and the authority...biblical counseling is attempting to take God's word as both the source and the authority” (62:31, B)

• Finding biblical counselors:

  • Look for training and Association of Certified Biblical Counselors (ACBC) certification. (64:02, B)

2. Mind vs. Brain: Why the Distinction Matters

Timestamps: 06:04–18:49

• Biblical teaching:

  • The mind is the immaterial aspect—intellect, will, emotions—that persists after death; the brain is a physical organ.
  • Scriptural support: Romans 12:2 speaks of the “renewing of your mind,” not your brain (06:34–07:47).

    “Our brains are deteriorating ... and when we think of the way that the outer man can waste away, my brain can deteriorate and my mind can be renewed, even though I may have an organ of my brain issue.” (07:47, B)

• Implication:

  • Many modern psychological issues are “medicalized” problems of the mind, not brain diseases.
  • Healthy discernment is needed: Is the issue physical or spiritual in nature? (18:49–20:39)

• Memorable quote:

  “You have medical sounding terminology that is starting to be used of an immaterial entity, which is our mind: mental illness or mental disease. But think of it this way…when you go to a psychiatrist, what kind of medicine do they actually do?...They're not empirically diagnosing you.” (19:03, B)

3. Critiquing the Secular Diagnostic Model (“Medicalizing the Mind”)

Timestamps: 18:49–22:20

• Key critique:

  • Secular psychiatry often labels emotional/spiritual distress as medical illness without physical evidence (e.g., depression as serotonin deficiency without testing).
  • Danger: Treating non-medical problems with powerful drugs, especially in children.

    “What other form of illness do we have where the doctor is like, oh, I can just hear it in your voice. You're vitamin D deficient. ... But for mental illness, they just, I don't know, feel it in your aura, which is superstitious, right?” (20:04, A)

• Result:

  • Overdiagnosis of ADHD, depression, anxiety, especially among young children, without objective criteria (21:47, B).

4. The “Self-Focus” Trap in Modern Therapy

Timestamps: 22:32–32:32

• Secular psychology’s remedy:

  • Focus on self, be authentic, “love yourself more”—positioned as solutions but may fuel the problem.
  • Biblical warning: 2 Timothy 3, “lovers of self” marks the last days.

    “The Bible sets us free from self worship… so instead of saying self love is the remedy, think of it as the problem that I'm trying to repent of.” (24:44–24:53, B)

• Difference from Christianity:

  • Christian life calls for denial of self, focus on God’s glory, and service to others.
  • Modern focus on self ties to higher depression/anxiety rates among youth.

• Notable quote:

  “If my therapist, counselor is telling me to love myself more ... I'm going to be more miserable. And just like, let's watch it unfold. The generation under 25 have never had so much depression and anxiety, right?” (25:04, B)

5. Understanding and Responding to ADHD, Depression, and Anxiety Biblically

ADHD
Timestamps: 35:01–43:15

• Much of what’s labeled ADHD is energetic, “rambunctious” behavior—often among boys—and may represent strengths or gifts rather than disorders.
• Medication is a matter of Christian liberty, but first, pursue maturity, discipline, and suitable environments for the child’s gifts.

  “Is hyperactivity a disorder? ... Or do you find the area to set your giftedness free?” (37:12, B)

Depression & Anxiety
Timestamps: 44:54–54:19

• Both are real experiences, but careful discernment is needed:

  • Rule out medical/physiological causes (e.g., thyroid, deficiencies).
  • If no physiological cause, evaluate for spiritual/mind causes—hopelessness, misplaced trust, self-focus.

  “You can be hopeless, and that's not a body problem. And what is the solution to that? ... God draws people out of the mud and the muck and the mire, and he sets them on a firm rock, which is Himself.” (46:23–46:41, B)

• Anxiety:

  • Biblically, usually rooted in a lack of trust (“little faith”—Matthew 6, Philippians 4:6).

  “Anxiety is a mild form of atheism.” (51:53, B quoting Kevin Carson)

  • True contentment comes from obedience to God and being freed from self-focus.

• Notable moment:

  “Worrying about the future is like picturing the future without God's grace in it.” (53:07, A paraphrasing C.S. Lewis)

6. The Role of Suffering and Sanctification

Timestamps: 32:32–35:01

• Christian sanctification doesn’t mean God always removes hard circumstances; rather, He uses them to build perseverance and Christlikeness.
• The primary goal is to glorify God—not simply relief from emotional pain.

7. Potential Dangers of the Modern Therapeutic Culture

Timestamps: 67:01–68:24

• Growing trend of self-diagnosis, pharmaceutical marketing directly to consumers.
• Broad consequences when medication is prescribed based on subjective, non-medical self-assessment (parallels drawn to gender identity controversies).

  “We diagnosed ourself. We just need the doctor to write the prescription.” (68:09, B)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On secular therapy:

  “Why would I go to someone with a hardened, calloused, defiled mind trying to help you with your most personal, intimate problems? In what world does that, like, make sense?” (60:45, B)

• On Christian responsibility and hope:

  “Feel the freedom that you can change. Transformation is the idea that you are completely new. … You behold the glory of Jesus, not the glory of your sin.” (59:26–60:15, B)

• On childhood diagnosis and identity:

  “Kids self-conceptualizing as their diagnosis from very...So you would have learned from puberty that you can't do things. So your parents gave you that sweet gift of saying, nope, we're going to protect her and we're going to help her thrive in what she's good at. And then here you are.” (43:59, B about Allie’s childhood experience)

Timestamps of Important Segments

| Segment | Topic | Timestamp | |----------------------------------|---------------------------------------------------------|--------------| | Introduction & Theme | Overview; Issues with modern therapy | 00:00–02:08 | | Guest Introduction | Dr. Gifford's background | 02:08–02:56 | | Bible vs. Psychology | Essence of biblical counseling | 03:14–06:04 | | Mind vs. Brain | Distinction, scriptural proof | 06:07–08:39 | | Medicalizing the Mind | Critique of secular diagnosis, chemical imbalance myth | 18:49–22:20 | | Self-Focus in Therapy | “Loving yourself” vs. biblical self-denial | 22:32–32:32 | | ADHD | Diagnosis, treatments, Christian response | 35:01–43:15 | | Depression & Anxiety | Root causes, biblical remedy | 44:54–54:19 | | Practical Application | Suffering, sanctification, grace | 53:07–54:19 | | Summary of Therapeutic Lies | Recap and biblical approach | 56:15–57:57 | | Biblical Counseling vs. Christian Therapy | Definitions, credentials | 62:17–65:07 | | Dangers in Modern Therapeutics | Self-diagnosis, overreliance on medication | 67:01–68:24 |

Final Thoughts & Resources

• Christians should approach mental health issues with robust discernment, seeking first spiritual and biblical wisdom while not ignoring possible physiological factors.
• Seek counselors whose primary authority is Scripture and who acknowledge humanity’s spiritual core.
• True hope and transformation are rooted not in discovering and loving self, but in loving and glorifying God.

Dr. Gifford’s Book:
"Lies My Therapist Told Me" – available wherever books are sold.

Podcast:
Transformed (part of the Fortis Institute)

Resource for Biblical Counselors:
Association of Certified Biblical Counselors (ACBC)

This summary reflects the episode’s original tone—thoughtful, faith-driven, and practical, focusing on challenging mainstream psychological narratives with scripture-centric Christian counsel.