← Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey
Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey
Ep 1264 | Muscular Christianity: Debunking the Manosphere's Lies
00:47:15
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- [00:01]
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Host 1
Foreign.
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Host 2
What does biblical masculinity actually look like? A lot of people want to give us a different definition of what it means to be a man, but we need to know, what does Christian masculinity really look like? Nick Freitas is here to tell us that today. He has been an incredible mentor to so many of you when it comes to your faith and fatherhood. We will talk about how. How this healthy view of masculinity can shape how we raise our daughters versus how we raise our sons. You are going to be so educated and encouraged by this incredible conversation with Nick. It's brought to you by our friends at Kexi Cookies, y'.
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Host 1
All.
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Host 2
Kexi Cookies are like the best cookies that I have ever had. They ship worldwide. They are real ingredients. They're so good. Just go to Kexi. That's K E K S I k. Use code ALI15. You'll get 15% off when you do. That's kexi.com code ALI15.
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Host 1
Nick, thanks so much for taking the time to join us. If you could tell everyone who might not know who you are and what you do.
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Nick Freitas
Oh, gosh. Okay. Well, at least until January of this year. I'm still in the Virginia House of Delegates, so I'm a. I'm a filthy politician. But other than. Other than that, I'm a reasonably nice guy. No, I'm married to my wife, Tina. We've been married 26 years. We have three children. My oldest is 22. My son is 20 and in the military now. My youngest is 17. My wife and I are high school sweethearts. Got married at 19 and 20. I was in the 82nd Airborne at the time. Did about 11 years active duty. Couple tours in Iraq with 1st Special Forces Group. Was doing defense contracting for a while, then got asked to run for office. Should have said no. Should have said no, but I got tricked into it. So I've served in the Virginia General assembly for 10 years. And several years ago, we started getting more involved on. On social media initially, talking a lot about politics, and we still do, but a lot more about faith, about family, about being a girl, dad, about raising a boy, all of those things. And so that's kind of the once over. The once over the world.
- [03:11]
Host 1
I love it. Okay, tell me how you became a Christian.
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Nick Freitas
Oh, gosh. So I was raised in the church, and so there's never a time I can remember not being a Christian. But I will say that as. As a young adult, it was not active in my life. If you would have found me even earlier on, again, I would have claimed Christ. I certainly would have defended Christianity and an intellectual argument and all that good stuff. But was definitely not being the spiritual leader of my household like I should have been. But something. A couple things happened. One is I had. I had a couple of other men in my life. My neighbor, a friend, a team leader that I served in Special Forces. And these guys represented for me both bold Christianity, but also very strong masculinity. Because I had had this thing where I felt like a lot of men in the church were weak, and I didn't want to be a weak man. And meeting these guys really demonstrated that, no, being a strong man for Christ was essential. And then I will never forget my youngest daughter, who was, I think, three at the time. My wife and I were talking about going back to church, and my youngest daughter said, what's church? And I said, okay, I have failed. And so we started getting back into church. And then another thing that really struck me was another gentleman I went through the Special Forces Intelligence Sergeant's course with. And he goes, nick, I really think you need to study Christian apologetics. And that was essential for me because I had grown up in a faith that I would say was very emotional and. Which is fine. Emotion is a part of a relationship. But if you want to have a complete relationship with God, well, then you got to love him with all of your heart, with all of your mind, with all of your spirit, with all of your strength. And so understanding the intellectual side of my faith and being able to effectively understand it and defend it logically, historically, that was. That was essential.
- [04:59]
Host 1
Yeah. Super formative for you. I want to go back to something that you said, because I'm sure that there are a lot of men who struggle with this. They look in the church, they see church leaders, and they say, well, that person's cowardly or that person's feminine, or maybe they feel like the whole church experiences kind of feminine. So talk a little bit more about that. Do you still think that's a problem and how should Christians respond to it?
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Nick Freitas
Yeah, I still think it's a problem. And it's funny because whenever I talk about biblical masculinity or the importance of Christian men to be strong, I always get this pushback on this idea of, well, you know, they need to follow Christ, not other men. Okay. But I also recall Paul saying, follow me as I follow Christ. So there's this idea that, no, we do have an obligation to live up to the biblical standards of what constitutes biblical masculinity. And I think feminism made its way into the church. Kind of the caricature of this is the Mother's Day sermon is all about how women are wonderful and great and perfect and super. And the Father's Day sermon is all about how men suck and we need to do better. And I think that there's this idea that instead of modeling for men what proper masculinity to look for, and by the same token, also modeling for women what proper biblical femininity looks like, we decided to be. We decided to be so seeker friendly, and we didn't want to upset the culture. And the result was, is we weren't relevant to the culture. And part of the reason why we weren't relevant to the culture is because we weren't relevant to young men. And if you actually want to disciple young men to be the sort of leaders that God expects and that our society and our country and our families really need, then that needs to be reflected within the men in the church. And so I think it's been a problem. I think we're starting to see a turnaround. Young men are becoming more religious now. That doesn't mean they're going to stay. But young men are starting to push back on a trend that has been going since the 70s, which is the United States being less and less religious. So they're pushing for meaning, they're pushing for transcendence. They're pushing for purpose. And what an opportunity, what an opportunity to demonstrate in the church. And when I see a lot of the men in the church, whether it's people like John Lovell or Chad Robichaw, Victor Marks, I see a lot of these guys that are, I think, in many cases, representing a truly faith, a commitment to Christ which manifests itself in proper biblical strength. I think that's something that young men are looking for desperately. And I think if they continue to find it in the church, they're going to continue to grow and allow themselves to be discipled in the way they should be.
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Host 1
Quick buzz.
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Host 2
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- [08:31]
Host 1
I think that there's a mistaken mentality among some people. You know, you mentioned that for women, and I've been talking about this for a long time, that the biggest problem women are told we have both in and outside of the church is that we have low self esteem.
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Nick Freitas
Yeah.
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Host 1
And that the solution to that is to love ourselves more, to be told that we're beautiful, that we're enough and perfect the way we are. And it's like, no, no, no, no. Our biggest problem is everyone's biggest problem. That we are sinners in need of a savior. And actually that didn't work. It didn't actually attract more women to Christianity because you can hear that at brunch on a Sunday morning. Why would you go to church and sacrifice your free time if you're going to hear the same message anywhere? So I think that there is a propensity to tell people what they want to hear in the thought that that's going to attract them to church. And do you feel like that also might be happening among the, like Andrew Tate acolytes of the world who say, okay, in order to attract these young men, we have to not be like Jesus was. We have to be crass and we have to be rude and we have to be arrogant and we have to be materialistic and we have to be promiscuous and we have to talk about women like their objects because that's real masculinity. That seems to me to be a simple reaction to feminism over here. And shouldn't Be a solution within the church to attract young men?
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Nick Freitas
No, no. So there's. I think there's two things that we have to recognize whenever we talk about what we might call the manosphere. Andrew Tate, Justin Waller, some of these other guys, fresh and fit, some of these other guys. The first thing that we need to recognize is the reason why they resonated so much with young men was not simply because all these guys have admirable accomplishments in their own right, along with a lot of other problematic things. Right. But they tend to be strong, they tend to be wealthy, and they tend to, you know, women tend to be attracted to them. Right. So these are all things that, if you're a young man without a spiritual basis in your life, you're looking at these things going, I want that. The most important component, though, is a lot of young men felt like those guys were sticking up for them when nobody else would. And one of the ways, if there's one thing that I could really convey, I think, to just people in general, is men associate loyalty with love. And so when somebody, you. Everybody has that friend where they got that one friend that they're still holding on to, where you're like, why do you hang out with that guy? Almost guaranteed there was some moment in their past where they needed that person and they were there for him. They showed up for him. And so that. That kind of loyalty is very, very strong with. With men. It builds a bond. And so a lot of young men look at guys like Andrew Tate and they say, that guy had my back when none of you people in the church were mentioning any of this. And now the first time you want to come up and talk about the problems with masculinity, you want to bash Andrew Tate, the one guy that had my back. And that's their attitude. And so the way I think we need to approach something like that is certainly not by excusing what I believe is disastrous, sinful, and ultimately not genuinely masculine behavior. But I think we need to recognize the source of the problem and from whence it comes. The other thing I think we need to understand is that that sort of masculinity, a kind of hedonistic masculinity, which says that you should dominate, and you should dominate for the sake of your own pleasure, that that's essentially your will to power, is the highest moral standard that you can appeal to, that is not in line with Christianity at all. The sort of leadership, the sort of strength that we see within Christianity is the kind which it is sacrificial in nature, it is a kind of servant leadership. But it isn't this boy band version of Jesus that a lot of men have been taught. It's like, yes, Jesus was compassionate and Jesus was loving, and Jesus could be tender. He was also strong, bold, courageous, willing to die and suffer for what he loved. And I think we need to get that full, complete picture of what masculinity within the biblical viewpoint looks like. Because ultimately, the worst form of depression anyone can ever experience is not being denied the things that you think you want. It's fully realizing all the things that you thought would bring you meaning and purpose and finding them empty. And the thing that I would tell young men is I can appreciate that Andrew Tate is fit. Right? I can appreciate that the man can fight. I can appreciate that Justin Waller is financially successful. But if you really want something that's going to give you ultimate meaning and purpose, the sort of thing that can cause you to do. I'll put it this way, for a while there, there was all these memes going around social media, there was all of these GIFs and whatnot, where it was always showing. It was one thing after the next. It was showing men involved in a last stand. It was showing some sort of environment, whether it was a battle, whether it was just defending your loved ones, whatever it was, but it was motivating music next to a knight or a soldier or somebody just at the last, full measure of human devotion, giving everything for what they believed and what they found to be beautiful and true. You don't get that through hedonism. You get that when you recognize that there is a God. He has a meaning and purpose for your life and that he, he requires you to be strong because it is a difficult world. And so if that's what you're looking for, you're not going to find it in achieving capability just so you can get whatever momentary pleasures. That doesn't mean you can't get pleasure out of this life. I get tremendous amount of pleasure from being a husband and a father. But I've never had to question my identity. I've never had to question my meaning or my purpose, because I always know it was found in Christ. And then he gives me these daily reminders in the form of my wife and my children and of truth and things I believe in. And so when I see those videos, I completely understand what it means. And I think that's what they're looking for. And if they really want to find it, that's where they're going to find it.
- [14:09]
Host 1
Yeah, Correct me if I'm wrong, but I also think that men and women, but maybe especially men like, are seeking clarity. And one thing, because I've heard Andrew Tate and Nick Fuentes say things that are true, and they'll just say it, and they won't caveat it, and they won't apologize for it, and they won't color of it. Now, I, I, people who are in my audience know that I am no, no, no fan of either of those people because, you know, in addition to some of the, that they have, it's a lot of hedonism, a lot of paganism, and just a lot of godlessness. But I just wonder if that is an attraction that we have a lot of pastors who are just afraid to say the thing. They're just afraid to say, hey, a man can't become a woman and it's bad. And then you've got this, like, hedonist over there who's just willing to say it, not for any religious reason, but because it's just true. And that, I think, is stirring for a lot of people, especially a lot of men who are like, finally, someone will just say it. And when you have pastors who just won't say it, I could see how that's a turn off.
- [15:15]
Nick Freitas
I think the church, I think a lot of pastors misread Romans 12, and when they see do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good, they translate that as niceness or tolerance or accommodation. Well, Romans 12, verse 9 says, I'm supposed to abhor evil. And so the difference is, is that they've seen a bunch of people that are not theoretically being led by Christ to say a bunch of things that are absolutely 100% true. And they do so boldly and unapologetically. And then they go into their churches and they find pastors which are scared that they might offend somebody. Now, listen, I'm a big believer that we're supposed to attempt to speak the truth in love. But love does not mean tolerance. Love means a devotion to truth. Because you recognize that this, this person made in the image of God is doing something that is dangerous and destructive and harmful. And I think we need more pastors. We need just men in the faith in general. Not even, not even just pastors that are willing to say this is wrong. And I'm not going to caveat it. I'm not going to caveat it to try to make you feel better about evil. I'm going to, I want evil to be uncomfortable in my presence. And that doesn't mean I need to be harsh. It doesn't mean I need to be a jerk. It just means I need to boldly and unapologetically stand for the truth. And if I do that, then yes, of course, nobody wants to. Nobody wants to follow a coward. Nobody wants to follow a thousand caveats into battle. They want to follow decisiveness. But that decisiveness has to be rooted in the truth and the author of truth. It's very easy to say something that is technically true, but then lose the plot because you don't know why it's true. And I think that's the problem that we see in the secular world. And again, we have something to offer here. So let's offer it.
- [17:04]
Host 2
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- [17:51]
Host 1
I think people get confused between meekness and weakness, which are not the same thing. Weakness is weakness, but meekness is power under control. And so power, masculine power, strength, power of the Holy Spirit. Obviously these things aren't inherently bad. They're supposed to be controlled by something. And I think like, that's the difference. The Christian should have power that is under control of the Holy Spirit. And then we see over in the secular, maybe conservative manosphere, power completely untethered to anything virtuous or true. And we've seen throughout history the battle between those two things.
- [18:27]
Nick Freitas
Yeah, well, I think so. Was Jesus utilizing self control when he was flipping the tables in the temple? Yes. Right?
- [18:35]
Host 2
He was, Yeah.
- [18:35]
Host 1
I would say yes. I was like, wait, is this a trick question? But I agree with you.
- [18:38]
Nick Freitas
He absolutely was. Because let's think about this. There's a couple different ways that Jesus could have approached that situation. He could have nicely and politely explained why this was inappropriate and it shouldn't be happening. But they already knew why it shouldn't be happening. They were proud in the fact that they were doing something that was a desecration he also didn't haul off and start chopping people up. Right. He used the appropriate level of force and violence to achieve the outcome, the righteous outcome. And so another thing that he could have done is he could have just walked away. And it's like, well, I don't want to cause a sin. And we have a Christianity in the west that doesn't want to cause a scene. And the problem is, is that that's heretical. So I think we need to understand that a lot. When we look at the fruits of the Spirit in Galatians, we're not talking about something that. We're not talking about the secularized versions of these attributes or characteristics. We're talking about the biblical application of these things. And we also, of course, need to understand that we're not God, we serve God, we're not God. But I do think, again, it's this idea of its strength with discipline and self control, which again, these are attributes that the secular world appreciates that they can see and understand their value. But that's also the problem when you don't assign. When you don't assign the truth to the author. I've had people tell me this all the time, Nick, I love what you have to say about being a parent, or I love what you say about politics, or I love you. So. But can you leave the God stuff out? No, I can't, because then I'm prescribing something. But I'm not telling you who actually came up with this because it wasn't Nick's grandiose idea. Right, right. This is. This is stuff I've discovered, not stuff I invented.
- [20:15]
Host 1
Right. Tell me what you think about this concept of muscular Christianity. I talked to a historian a few weeks ago named Raymond Ibrahim.
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Nick Freitas
Yeah.
- [20:23]
Host 1
And do you know who he is? Okay. Yeah. He specializes in Islam and his books are incredible. And he talks about how the Christians who were pushing back against Islam, who were and still are just so brutal, they saw their conquest as a form of agape love, that they were literally laying their lives down for their wives and for their children, as the Bible calls them to, through fighting and through sacrifice. Today it seems like we see that as the opposite, that the sacrifice that men are supposed to do is supposed to be being a doormat and allowing evil to run rampant. So they're not divisive or offensive or rude or whatever. That is a departure from what Christianity has traditionally been and pushing back against darkness. Right?
- [21:13]
Nick Freitas
Yes. So I don't think, again, we cannot spread the gospel through the source. We have no mandate to do that within Scripture. I think that would be a heretical application. By the same token, we're not called to simply be beaten up, destroyed, or having our wives carried away or our children sold into slavery. So this idea that there's no martial mandate within Christianity, I don't think that's accurate. So I think you do have a duty, again, as a Christian man to stand up before your faith and to properly defend and provide for your family. And that could, under the right conditions, require you to go to war. It could require battle. And I think that one of the best ways you can prepare for that is one making sure that your relationship with Christ is where it needs to be, but also preparing for things. I've noticed that the more prepared you are for conflict, the less you end up getting involved in it from time to time. Because people don't like to mess with somebody that they know can fight back. But if we're projecting a very, very weak and docile Christianity, again, I don't think it's an accurate reflection of the gospel. I don't think it's an accurate reflection of Scripture.
- [22:25]
Host 2
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- [23:18]
Host 1
You talk a lot about parenting, the differences between raising boys and girls. Your kids are mostly adults now. Okay. Let's just talk about that. I know it's a big subject.
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Nick Freitas
Yeah.
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Host 1
What are the main differences between parenting boys and girls? I only have girls. Okay.
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Nick Freitas
Well, first thing I'll say is, you know, you think you're a tough guy, and then you have a little girl and you find out what an absolute SAP you really are. Yeah, I had days where one, you know, first part of the day I'm at the range with a bunch of green Berets and I'm running shooting drills and we're doing some pretty cool stuff. And later on the evening, I'm wearing a tiara and a little feather boa and I'm drinking something that my daughters call tea. We're not sure exactly what it was. And so I think one of the things, one of the things I used to, well, I still say three things I learned raising daughters, which is somewhat unique to them, is I said, you know, you need to tell your daughters that you love them. And a lot of people, we got to show them too. Yes, I understand that. But a lot of times what fathers don't seem to understand is we do things like go to work, provide, protect, we work 70 hour weeks and we think that's translated in their minds as love, but it isn't necessarily. And so it does have to be verbalized as well as acted out in your day to day life. You need to be able to tell, you need to tell your daughters you love them. And in fact, that advice came to me from a buddy of mine in the military who was probably one of the biggest part of the expression man whores I had ever run across. And I had asked him, I said, how do I keep my daughter from ever falling for a guy like you? And he said, tell her you love her because if you don't, someone like me will and she'll believe him.
- [24:53]
Host 1
Yikes.
- [24:55]
Nick Freitas
I asked. He gave an honest answer. And so I think that's part of it. Another thing too, that I would say, and this is true with all of your children, the relationship and the bonds you build start when they're infants. I think men sometimes have this idea that as my kids get a little bit older or whatnot, they come more into my domain of responsibility. As they get older, it's like, no, from the time that they're little, you need to be holding them and building those connections. Your daughters need to know that you will tell them the truth, but you tell them the truth from the position that you love them. So if I've already established, and they are just so positive of my love when I tell them the truth, to include hard truths, they'll listen because they know it's coming from a place of wanting them to succeed. They also need to be able to tell you the truth. There's going to come a moment in everybody's, in every father's life where your child catches you not living up to the standard that you told them was the standard and in that moment, what you do is very, very important. Because if you aren't able to look them in the eye and say, you're right, I'm wrong, and I'm sorry, then what you've taught them is not a standard of moral conduct. You haven't taught them objective morality. What you've taught them is an authority structure. And the authority structure is rooted on who can imply force at any given time. I always wanted my girls to know that if I was telling them something, it was because I thought it was true. And if they caught me not applying it and they respectfully brought it to my attention, then it was my obligation to admit it because I wanted him to base. I want them to stand up for truth as well, and I want them to stand up for truth to authority if necessary. But if there's one thing I could tell men, specifically with respect to daughters, and I've been through this phase now where I've. My oldest daughter's married, two things I want to relay to him. The first one is fathers sometimes again think that when they're little, do they really remember the things that you do? Your 5 year old remembers what you did when they were 3. Your 7 year old remembers what you did when they were 5. Your 12 year old remembers what you did when THEY were 7. And what ends up happening is by the time they're in those teenage years which a lot of people consider the most difficult. I did not. I thought they were the easiest. And you will have established a pattern of love interest, trust and compassion that she will use as the standard for everyone else, every other man in her life that she's going to interact with. And so take the time to form those bonds because they will pay massive dividends when they're in years where they can start to make decisions with or without your approval that could have lifelong consequences.
- [27:33]
Host 1
That's so good.
- [27:34]
Nick Freitas
The other thing I would say on that is when my oldest daughter first had a boy that liked her, and, you know, she's 9 or 10, one of the things that I told her was I said, look, Daddy's always going to tease you about wanting to, you know, make your boyfriends disappear. I said, but I desperately want you one day to have what your mother and I have. And if, if you will trust me to help you discern between the man that God has for you and the other ones that might try to interlope, I promise you one day I'll say yes. I promise you one day I'll say yes. But what I want you to be thinking about is I want you to be thinking about that kind of love that you can have with someone one day. And I want you to think about how much you might have to explain to them. And. And it was amazing how simply laying it out that way to where I'm not giving you a bunch of arbitrary rules that I tell you to avoid. I'm not even giving you a bunch of well explained rules that just protect you from danger. I'm setting you on a path that is going to get you what you want. And then the last thing I would say is that in order to prove all of that, she's going to watch how you treat her mother. And if you treat her mother with the sort of love and respect that she deserves, that will be all the standard that she needs for when the other guy comes around that doesn't behave that way or there's something slightly off, you will be the reason why he rejects him or why she rejects him. Because I always tell guys, you can say all day long he better ask my permission. The only one that gives that real power is your daughter. Probably the best compliment my son in law gave to me was he asked me why I said yes. And I explained it. I said, were you nervous? And he goes, honestly? He goes, I wasn't at first. He goes, I wasn't at first. I'd been dating your daughter for a year and a half. I'd spent almost the entire time over at your house. I knew you guys, I knew you loved me. I knew you knew I loved your daughter. I knew all of that. But as a joke, I asked Lily what would happen if I asked your dad for your hand and he said no. He goes, she stopped deadpan, looked me right in the eye and she goes, I would be heartbroken because it would be over. Because if my dad says no, there's something he's picked up on that I haven't. So I hope that's not what happens. And again, I think that was, that was probably the greatest compliment I could have received from my son in law.
- [30:07]
Host 1
She trusts you.
- [30:08]
Nick Freitas
Yeah. And if I could just say too, this is another one of the things that I think is demonstrative of God's grace is that as flawed and imperfect as an attempt I made at being a godly husband and father, he blessed it disproportionately to my efforts. And so I'm very grateful for that. When it comes to raising boys, Yes, I think men need to understand. I said this once and it bothered some people and I don't particularly care. I looked at it as I'm raising my replacement in the world. Now, obviously he's not going to have the same obligations to my wife or to his sisters that I do to them. But he's also learning the standards for what his obligations are to God, what his obligations are to his wife one day, what his obligation is to his children one day. And there's a legacy that he wants to be a part of and he wants to protect. And I saw it as very important that my son not only see me as providing, but my son also see me as strong. Because the bottom line is if I do this right, then my daughters will one day be protected and provided for by a good godly man. My son will have to be that man. And so the challenges that he's going to face are going to be different. And I need to adequately prepare him for that. And I need to not hide that. That's what I'm preparing them for.
- [31:43]
Host 2
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- [32:33]
Host 1
When it comes to just kind of like basic, basic parenting of little boys and little girls. Well, from what I can tell, I've got a lot of nephews. We've got all girls ourselves and have got a lot of nephews when they're young. The relationship management with girls starts very young, I've noticed. You know, it's a lot of relationship management with little boys. It's a lot of injury management. You know, injury management versus relationship management. And you have a little bit of both, I'm sure. But I do wonder when it comes to boys, what is the balance in protecting them from injury but also allowing them to take those necessary risks, which I think could be important for boys and girls. But it seems like especially boys, you don't want to baby them. You don't want him to become a mama's boy. You want him to be strong and brave and tough. So what does that look like on a practical level?
- [33:25]
Nick Freitas
Age appropriate challenges. My job was to protect them from bruises or, excuse me, my job was to protect them from scars, not bruises. So when it comes to anything that could have permanent, life altering consequences, I'm on guard. And my job is to protect them from that, both spiritually, emotionally and physically. But when it, when it comes to challenging their surroundings and going out and seeing what little things that they can conquer or do, it's to provide enough Runway for them to get hurt. And then when they get hurt to say, okay, get up. Because you're absolutely right. I used to joke that with my little girls. You know, raising little girls was, was relatively easy when they were small because it was simple as like, sweetheart, don't do that. Okay, daddy. Right. With my boys or with my boy, it was like I, I used to Jake that the raising boys is a lot like raising puppies. The commands are almost exactly similar, right? Like, stop chewing on that, don't pee there. Right. Like, you know, but they need to be a little bit more rough and tumble. They still need to know that there's a safe place to go. But one of the things that I had a mom ask me once, she goes, how do I help my little boy become a man as he gets older? I said, well, keep in mind some of the things that you do when he's very, very little that make him feel safe and loved as he gets older, make him feel weak. And so it doesn't mean that moms still don't have an important role to play. But I remember the first time I had to tell Tina, no, he's going to handle this problem himself. Why? Because he doesn't want the bully to be afraid of you. He wants the bully to be afraid of him. And he can't do that unless he goes out there and he faces some of this. And it's tough. It's tough. And there's supposed to be again, a mother and a father providing different things at different stages. Because there's been plenty of times where I've looked at my wife and been like, how do I deal with this with my daughter? Do this, do this, do that. Okay, thank you. But yeah, that's the one thing I'll say is age appropriate challenges. And then you don't rush to them the moment that they get hurt or that they fail because they have to learn how to deal with getting hurt and they have to learn how to deal with failure. If the most Entitled little brats you've ever met in your life never learned how to hear no. Whether it was from a parent or just from reality. There's times when a reality tells us no. Pretty hard. Right? And those are really, really good life lessons if we allow them to be.
- [35:53]
Host 1
Yeah. So true. Allowing that character development, sometimes in the form of. Sometimes in the form of pain. And that is like, that's a hard thing, I think, especially for us moms, because we are hardwired to protect our kids from every kind of injury. And there is a time and a place for that, like you said, and there's a time and a place to let go. And I remember Jordan Peterson, he wrote in one of his books a long time ago, like, you can either have brave kids or safe kids. And the. It changes when they're really little. There's a lot of safety. And then the older they get, it seems my oldest is only 6, but it seems the bravery starts outweighing the safety, or it should. And that's hard for parents. It's like we have to grow into that too.
- [36:39]
Nick Freitas
Yeah. And again, I think it's like whenever we're talking about something that really could cause, like, long lasting damage. Yeah. My job is to protect them from that.
- [36:48]
Host 1
Yeah.
- [36:48]
Nick Freitas
But a lot of times that's not what we think it is. A lot of times that's like, no, you don't get a smartphone because I'm not giving the Internet access to you. But by the same token, there's other challenges where it's good for them to kind of figure it out and then for you to guide them through the process.
- [37:04]
Host 1
Okay, tell me what you've learned from being a politician? What are some main takeaways that you've learned?
- [37:12]
Nick Freitas
So people ask me, what was the thing that most prepared you for politics? And I was like, oh, that's. That's easy. Being a Green Beret. Because being a Green Beret, everything we do in Green Berets is by, through, and with the local population. So you're constantly trying to figure out local incentive structures, cultures. You're regularly dealing with people that would just as soon shoot you as they would the other guy, except the other guy's a greater threat right now. And so you learn how to kind of view the landscape and the various incentive structures and the various motivations. And then you do your best to operate through that while at the same time maintaining true to the principles that, that you care about. So the first thing that I always tell people whenever they want to get involved in politics, they want to run for office. I'll ask this as kind of a question. I'll just say, what are you willing to lose your seat over? And then as they start to think, I'll be like, let me back up there for a second. I said, I want you to imagine that you've just spent the last nine months doing a series of things that you probably don't like. You've knocked on doors, you've gone to events, you've spent a good part of your life begging for money, which is just absolutely horrendous and horrible. But you had to do it in order to get your message out. You've done all of this just to win this seat because now you're going to go do good things. And now the vote comes up on a bill which you know is bad, but you know could cost you everything you've just worked for. Yeah, what's the bill that you say? Nope, I'm voting no, and I'll go home happy. Because if you don't know the answer to that question, then what it says is that you don't have anything you're willing to lose everything for. And I don't want you anywhere near politics. Because this environment, there, there is an element of healthy compromise, but not on one's principles. And if you're not willing to say, I'm willing to give it all up for this vote, you don't need to be here. Because once you start doing that, you realize that there is no line.
- [38:55]
Host 1
Right?
- [38:56]
Nick Freitas
Because you'll be able to convince yourself, well, I can't do anything good if I can't keep the seat. So I would just say if the moment you start getting your identity from the elected office you hold, it's time to leave. Yeah, it's time to leave. The other thing I've learned is that, look, this is. Politics is obviously not a perfect environment. We're dealing with a fallen world. And again, there, there, there is necessary and appropriate compromise. But be very, very careful about where those lines are. And once you've set them, then you've set them and be willing to be hated. It's another thing, too, that kind of blows my mind is that I feel like we have a kind of a Christianity in the west that has convinced himself that as long as nobody hates us, then we're properly demonstrating the love of Christ. You do realize that Christ was crucified, right?
- [39:44]
Host 1
Right.
- [39:44]
Nick Freitas
Like a totally innocent man was crucified because he offended the local political leaders, among others. So stop with this idea that if you Just do everything right. Everyone's going to like you or be okay with you. No, they're not. In fact, if you're standing for truth, I promise you, you're going to develop some very, very powerful enemies and you need to be comfortable with that. In fact, your response should be, thank you, God, that I should suffer something for your name. So those are a couple of things I've learned.
- [40:11]
Host 1
Yeah. Jesus literally says woe to you. When all people speak well of you, it's bad. When everyone's saying something nice about you, you're probably doing something wrong. Probably a shape shifter.
- [40:23]
Nick Freitas
You're compromising in some area where you shouldn't.
- [40:30]
Host 1
Last.
- [40:30]
Host 2
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- [41:20]
Host 1
So what would your. You kind of just gave it. But if there's maybe one word of advice that you would give to a Christian who's thinking about going into politics and they're like, okay, I really want to make a difference. I really want to do what's right. What's the one thing you would tell.
- [41:36]
Nick Freitas
Them you need to remember? Well, first of all, if you really feel, if you, if you've got a strong relationship with God and you really feel that you're being called into this particular environment, you need to remember you're being called into it for his purposes, not yours. He will call you into it and he will call you out of it. And maybe you'll get to go on your own terms. Maybe you get to be there for 20 years and accomplish all sorts of wonderful things and leave on your own terms. And isn't that wonderful? Or maybe he'll call you out of it in a year because you had to stand up and do the right thing. Your job is to be obedient to the purpose he put before you. That's it. That's it. It's not to be speaker one day. It's not to be president one day. It's not to be governor one day. It's not to get that bill that you're owe so important for your job is to be obedient to the purpose that he gives you in the time and place that he's placed you you. That's it. And if you can just remember that, then you're going to have a certain level of peace that just baffles everyone else around you. Because, because, well, no, you know, if you just. I remember somebody looked over me once I took a vote, a hard vote and somebody looked over me goes, aren't you running for Congress? Because that was the dumbest thing. Why would you take this vote? I'm like, well, I think it's wrong.
- [42:38]
Host 1
Yeah.
- [42:39]
Nick Freitas
But it's 99 to 1. Yeah. I think you're all wrong.
- [42:41]
Host 1
Yeah.
- [42:42]
Nick Freitas
And, and theoretically it could have cost me the election. But I, I, I was confident.
- [42:46]
Host 1
So is your future politics.
- [42:49]
Nick Freitas
Well, I'm not running for re election.
- [42:51]
Host 1
Okay.
- [42:52]
Nick Freitas
So 10 years in the General assembly, here's what we found. We absolutely believe that God called us into it when he did and we absolutely believe he called us out of it when he did. Thankfully, I'm being replaced by someone who's absolutely phenomenal. Karen Hamilton. I think she's going to win the race pretty, I feel very confident. Her and her husband Cameron are just wonderful people and will do an incredible job. But again, one of the In 2020, I ran for Congress. I didn't want to. And again, it was one of those, it was a test for us. I didn't want to do it. And we had a bunch of people calling us up and offering us all sorts of things to run. And I said, God, I don't want to do this, but if you want me to do it, can you please make it clear I don't want to do it, but I will do it if that's what you want. And so I put out some ridiculous tests like it was like Gideon on crack. Right. Like we'll do this and this and this. And all of it got done in 48 hours. I was like, okay, so had to change jobs because running for Congress in one of the top five congressional seats in the country.
- [43:56]
Host 1
Yeah.
- [43:56]
Nick Freitas
Was does his full time job for 10 hours a day, 10 to 12 hours a day, six days a week. They got mad at me because I said no Sundays. I'm spending time with my family because they're going to be here long after you all are gone.
- [44:10]
Host 1
Yeah.
- [44:11]
Nick Freitas
But all of that went through it all. And on election day we'd won.
- [44:15]
Host 1
Yeah.
- [44:15]
Nick Freitas
And the next morning we had won.
- [44:17]
Host 1
Yeah.
- [44:17]
Nick Freitas
And the next afternoon we lost.
- [44:20]
Host 1
Wow.
- [44:21]
Nick Freitas
We literally had a thumb drive show up in a county that had been mismarked with 15,000 votes on it.
- [44:25]
Host 1
Wow.
- [44:26]
Nick Freitas
In the bluest county in the district. And it completely evaporated our lead, and we lost by less than two points. And I remember my wife and I both looking at each other and, like, praying like, God, what was the point of that? Like, we didn't want to do this. This was hard on our family. It was. I had to get a different job. It was hard on everything. Why? And two years later, two years later, I'm sitting around the table as we're talking about all of the work that we're doing on social media and the very first project that we had done where a donor had come to me and asked me if I would take over this program called the Wine Minutes. And my business partner and producer, Nick Hamilton, who I work with now, and then one of my main editors and co host, Christian Hines, and one of our main video editors, Code. I'm looking around the table. It's like I had to run to meet all of these people that I did because I met them on the campaign trail. So I had to meet them in order to gather all the right people together for what we're doing right now. But I had to lose in order to do it.
- [45:25]
Host 1
Wow.
- [45:26]
Nick Freitas
And it was one of the biggest lessons in obedience for us because my wife and I, we were frustrated. We're a little bit frustrated with God. Inappropriately so, but frustrated nonetheless. And so the thing that we learned from that is it's obedience. That's it. That's your job. Yeah, that's your job.
- [45:43]
Host 1
And that's actually like, a big relief, is that you're just doing the next right thing and God is in charge of the rest. And it might not look like the picture of success that we have, but he's got that. He's the author of that. That's like a huge relief off of our shoulders.
- [45:59]
Nick Freitas
Oh, Waking up and realizing that God is not in heaven going, I really hope Nick comes through for me on this. He doesn't require me to do these things in order to achieve his will. But, man, he invites me to come along. And that's pretty powerful.
- [46:13]
Host 1
Yeah.
- [46:13]
Nick Freitas
So sit down, shut up. Don't pick some noble mission and ask God to join you. Ask God what he's doing and ask if you can join him.
- [46:22]
Host 1
Yeah.
- [46:22]
Nick Freitas
And so I think that's relevant for. I think it's very relevant for any Christian that wants to enter into the political realm because it becomes so easy to get obsessed with the office or the next office or the bill or whatever else it is. You need to focus on being obedient. That's it.
- [46:35]
Host 1
Yeah. Or in any realm. We always say God's eternal plan of redemption is always going off without a hitch.
- [46:41]
Nick Freitas
Yeah.
- [46:41]
Host 1
He's never surprised or never taken it back. Well Nick, thank you so much. And tell me for maybe the few of you out there who don't already follow Nick, where can people follow you? Yes. Instagram. Is there anywhere else?
- [46:54]
Nick Freitas
Yeah. So we Nick J. Freitas across the board. We made it easy. So if you want to find our YouTube channel we do a lot of long and medium form content there. We have our two. We have our one podcast, the one, excuse me, making the argument and then our other show is the why minutes. So awesome. Find me everywhere.
- [47:08]
Host 1
Well thank you so much. I really appreciate it.
- [47:09]
Nick Freitas
It's my honor.
- [47:19]
Host 1
Sa.