Podcast Summary: "Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey"

Episode 1267 | Frank Turek on What Really Happened at UC Berkeley
Air Date: November 14, 2025
Guest: Dr. Frank Turek
Host: Allie Beth Stuckey
Network: Blaze Podcast Network

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into Dr. Frank Turek’s recent experience at UC Berkeley alongside Charlie Kirk, recounting the protests and disruptions from Antifa and university failures. Allie and Dr. Turek also analyze the theological implications of Christianity amid cultural hostility, discuss capital punishment, critique the rhetoric around “toxic empathy,” address conspiracy theories related to Charlie Kirk's murder, and reflect on Charlie's character and legacy.

1. UC Berkeley: A Firsthand Account

Background on the Event

• Dr. Frank Turek recounts his participation with Charlie Kirk at a scheduled Turning Point USA event at UC Berkeley. Despite heightened tensions due to events two months prior and safety concerns, the team decided: “the show must go on.” (01:04)
• Rob Schneider, the actor and comedian, also joined the event.

Protests, Disruption, and University Response

• Antifa members and agitators caused chaos outside the venue, hurling insults and even setting off fireworks that sounded like gunfire.
• Attendees were harassed and spat on while entering—and exiting—the theater (06:26).
• Despite the venue holding up to 2,400, only around 900-1,000 were able to get in due to leftist groups securing free tickets and not using them, intentionally leaving seats empty (03:13).
• University police reportedly failed to guarantee safe access, and there may be grounds for a civil rights lawsuit (05:17).

Quote:
“We call it UC Berserkly for a reason, Ali. ... people were spat on, people were harassed. And they were not only harassed getting in ... [but] getting out.” (03:13, Dr. Turek)

Notable moment:
Chloe Cole, a well-known de-transitioner, was denied police assistance despite request for safe passage (09:00).

2. Free Speech, Irony, and Real Tolerance

Discussing the Nature of Fascism

• Irony highlighted: Those protesting for “inclusion, tolerance, and diversity” demonstrated intolerance and violence against differing views.
• Dr. Turek: “If irony could kill, they'd be dead already.” (10:23)

Philosophical and Theological Framing

• Dr. Turek attributes much of the hatred and disruption to "demonic influence" and spiritual warfare, referencing Ephesians ("... principalities and powers that are supernatural in nature." 11:19).

3. The Gospel Message Amid Hostility

Sharing the Gospel at Berkeley

• Dr. Turek explains his method and reasoning in addressing suffering and evil in his talk:
  • "God gives us free choice. The problem is we can use our free choice to do evil like the shooter did. ... The Bible talks about the fact that testing produces patience, and patience produces character, and tribulation leads to hope. ... Doesn't say all things are good. There's a lot of evil things out there. But ... good things can come from evil ..." (13:32)
• Audience inside the room was overwhelmingly positive and receptive (14:35).
• Core Christian message emphasized: justice vs. grace—“There's only two things you're going to get in the afterlife. You're either going to get justice or you're going to get grace. ... The only way we can avoid infinite justice is the God of infinite grace, who takes justice upon himself...” (14:35)

4. The Link Between Communism, Atheism, and Violence

Question on Communism’s Inherent Violence

• Allie asks why movements for “equality and peace” often display violence and "godlessness" (16:05).
• Dr. Turek references James Lindsay’s reluctant admission: “I'm starting to believe in Satan because I'm looking at the history of communism ...” (16:37)
• Philosophical comparison: Under communism, “the state is eternal and the individual is expendable”; in Christianity, “the individual is eternal” (17:37).

5. The Purpose of Government and “Toxic Empathy”

Biblical Foundation for Government

• Dr. Turek: “The purpose of the government is to protect innocent people from evil by punishing wrongdoers ... that's what Paul talks about in Romans, chapter 13.” (19:35)

Allie’s “Toxic Empathy” Critique

• Allie outlines the role of the media and progressive causes in manipulating empathy to promote policy from a single victim’s perspective, leading to destructive social policy by ignoring the other side of the moral equation (21:28).
• Example: Pro-life issue framed through tragedy of a mother, totally ignoring the reality and humanity of the aborted child.
• Noteworthy term: “Suicidal empathy” is referenced, drawing from social commentaries (24:59).

Quote:
“When you're powered by empathy to make a decision, you are blinded to the victim on the other side of the moral equation, especially when that victim is never brought up.” (24:10, Allie)

Analogy:
“You believe in borders. Do you have a lock on your door? ... It's not because you hate people on the outside. It's because you love people on the inside.” (25:36, Turek)

6. Reasoning with the Unreasonable, Order of Loves, and Augustine

Debate on Rationality and Social Order

• “You can't rationalize with the irrational ... Jesus himself said, don't cast your pearls before swine …” (29:35, Turek)
• Allie and Dr. Turek discuss the impossibility and disorder of loving everyone equally; invoke Augustine’s “Order of Loves” (27:24).
• Allie: “... God is a God of order. He actually created these systems for us to have order to our lives.”

7. Political Violence, the Left, and Surveys

• Dr. Turek references survey data showing political violence and the embrace of “heckler’s vetoes” is predominantly a left-wing phenomenon at universities (31:23).
• Allie cites recent examples of politicians (Virginia) expressing violent wishes towards political opponents and still winning elections (31:23).

Quote:
“We're in a cold civil war, which I hope doesn't turn into a hot civil war.” (32:11, from Rob Schneider via Dr. Turek)

8. Capital Punishment, Justice, and Pro-life Consistency

Dr. Turek’s Argument for the Death Penalty

• Cites Romans 13 and Jesus’ tacit approval before Pilate; distinguishes biblically and logically between executing a “guilty murderer” and abortion of an innocent child (33:11).
• Dr. Turek: “There’s a stark difference between an innocent baby and a guilty murderer. The innocent baby has done nothing wrong, but the guilty murderer has ... You took a person made in the image of God and the only way you can pay for that crime is for your life to be taken justifiably.” (33:11)
• Allie agrees, asserting life ethic is consistent across abortion, capital punishment, and self-defense.

9. Candace Owens, Conspiracy Theories, and the Charlie Kirk Murder

Addressing the Rumors and Theories

• Dr. Turek lays out the logical fallacy and danger in making public accusations (and sharing dreams as evidence) about Charlie Kirk’s murder (38:24).
• Strong rebuke: “It's one thing to ask questions, it's another thing to present or to insinuate that someone is guilty because you've put a web of possibilities together without any evidence ... that's what Candace Owens has done to others.” (38:24)
• Explains that prosecutors purposely keep evidence confidential to avoid tainting the jury and to maintain the integrity of the investigation (40:45).
• Dr. Turek personally experienced being accused via conspiracy theories (e.g., “guy in the white hat” signaling the shooter), and was questioned by the FBI to close all investigative avenues (42:26).

Quote:
“A dream is not evidence. Okay, you're not a prophet. Okay? God didn't come to you in a dream.” (53:23, Turek on Candace Owens’ justification)

10. Defending Mikey McCoy (Charlie Kirk’s Assistant)

Clarifying Events and Loyalty

• Allie and Dr. Turek defend Mikey McCoy, who has been wrongly targeted by conspiracy theorists. Mikey followed established emergency protocols, contacting leadership as instructed, with no evidence of wrongdoing (48:11–52:03).
• Dr. Turek: “I would bet my life on Mikey McCoy. He did not … he had nothing to do with this. Yet you should see the horrific things people are saying about him.” (52:34)

11. Remembering Charlie Kirk: Mentorship, Humility, and Vision

Mentorship and Final Conversations

• Dr. Turek shares personal mentoring moments with Charlie, including a detailed walk just 36 hours before Charlie’s death (56:38).
• Issues discussed: dangers of Islamism, defending the Resurrection, and how to encourage young people (especially women) toward marriage and family (58:25).
• Dr. Turek reveals Charlie was particularly concerned about convincing young women to elevate family and motherhood, stating, “how do we get women to follow what Ali’s talking about?” (60:35)

Reflections on Grief and Legacy

• Grief discussed as a process coming in waves; Dr. Turek reflects on daily struggles while also recognizing martyrdom is a global Christian reality (65:50).
• Encourages the audience: “You don't have to change the world. You just need to change somebody's world. So do whatever you can to advance the cause of Christ ...” (65:21)

Quote:
“The only thing that exceeded his [Charlie Kirk’s] intellect was his humility. The few things that I knew that he didn't know, he wanted to know.” (62:42, Turek)

12. Final Words and Prayer

• Dr. Turek ends by leading a prayer for Christians to have courage, to share the gospel, and to continue the legacy of discipleship that Charlie embodied (67:40).

Notable moment:
“His politics came from his theology, not the other way around. And help that to be the case with us as well.” (68:52, Turek)

Notable Quotes by Timestamp

• 03:13 — Dr. Turek: “We call it UC Berserkly for a reason, Ali. ... people were spat on, people were harassed.”
• 10:23 — Dr. Turek: “If irony could kill, they'd be dead already.”
• 14:35 — Dr. Turek: “We're all sinners, we all need a savior. We can't save ourselves ... You're either going to get justice or you're going to get grace.”
• 17:37 — Dr. Turek: “In atheism and communism, the state is eternal and the individual is expendable ... In Christianity, the individual is eternal.”
• 24:10 — Allie: “When you're powered by empathy to make a decision, you are blinded to the victim on the other side of the moral equation ...”
• 29:35 — Dr. Turek: “You can't rationalize with the irrational ... Jesus himself said, don't cast your pearls before swine ...”
• 32:11 — Rob Schneider (via Turek): “We're in a cold civil war, which I hope doesn't turn into a hot civil war.”
• 33:11 — Dr. Turek: “There’s a stark difference between an innocent baby and a guilty murderer ...”
• 53:23 — Dr. Turek: “A dream is not evidence. Okay, you're not a prophet ...”
• 65:21 — Dr. Turek: “You don't have to change the world. You just need to change somebody's world.”
• 68:52 — Dr. Turek: “His [Charlie Kirk’s] politics came from his theology, not the other way around. And help that to be the case with us as well.”

Key Timestamps for Main Topics

• UC Berkeley Event Recap: 01:04–07:10
• The Irony of Intolerance: 10:05–11:56
• Sharing the Gospel at Cal: 13:32–15:38
• Communism, Atheism, and Violence: 16:37–18:25
• Purpose of Government & Toxic Empathy: 19:35–27:29
• Order of Loves / Augustine: 27:11–28:55
• Political Violence Statistics: 31:23–32:30
• Death Penalty Debate: 33:11–36:26
• Candace Owens Theories Critiqued: 38:24–47:10
• Defending Mikey McCoy: 48:07–54:11
• Mentoring Charlie, Kirk’s Vision: 56:38–65:11
• Grief, Christian Response, and Prayer: 65:21–69:36

Conclusion

This episode offers a bold, firsthand account of the violence and hostility Dr. Turek encountered at UC Berkeley, setting it in the context of a wider cultural and spiritual battle. The conversation ranges from on-the-ground reporting to deep theological reflections, pointed analysis of political and media trends, and heartfelt tributes to the late Charlie Kirk. Dr. Turek, unwavering in his mission, calls listeners to courage and clarity in Christ—no matter the cost.