Ep 1275 | Cult Survivor: Child 'Maiden' Escapes & Set Free by Jesus | Lindsay Tornambe

Summary

Podcast Summary

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey

Episode 1275: Cult Survivor: Child 'Maiden' Escapes & Set Free by Jesus | Lindsay Tornambe
Original air date: December 5, 2025
Host: Allie Beth Stuckey
Guest: Lindsay Tornambe

---

Episode Theme & Overview

This harrowing episode centers on the testimony of Lindsay Tornambe, a survivor of a manipulative and abusive cult led by Victor Bernard. Allie and Lindsay journey through Lindsay's upbringing in The Way International offshoot, her experience as a so-called “maiden” in Bernard’s inner circle, her eventual escape, and her ultimate redemption through faith in Jesus Christ. The conversation is both heart-wrenching and deeply hopeful, aiming to encourage those who have suffered spiritual betrayal and abuse.

---

Key Discussion Points

1. Lindsay's Background and Early Faith (01:29 - 05:22)

• Family faith: Raised in The Way International, Lindsay was taught “God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit were all three separate beings” and that Jesus was not God (02:05-03:17).
• Spiritual experiences: Early on, she had a childlike faith, prayed for classmates, and engaged with Scripture at home, but not in a traditional church.
• Cult involvement begins: The family met Victor Bernard, who would later claim to be a God-ordained apostle seeking to “shepherd his flock” (05:33).
• Subtle changes: Bernard’s influence grew, shifting the family's focus from everyday life (e.g., Lindsay’s athletic dreams) to “urgency of Jesus Christ coming back” and spiritual separation from non-group members (07:00-09:06).

“When Jesus Christ comes back, he's not going to care how many gold medals I won, and that none of that mattered in this life.” – Lindsay, reflecting on her mother’s words after Bernard’s visit (07:00)

---

2. Life at the Compound and Early Warning Signs (09:06 - 17:19)

• Move to Minnesota: The family moved to Bernard’s “Shepherd’s Camp” after being pressured—severing ties with extended family (12:10-13:26).
• Camp life: The camp housed about 80 people, with communal meals, homeschooling, and child labor in animal care, gardening, etc. (14:01-14:40).
• Authority and fear: Bernard displayed volatility and aggression, including spitting and chair-throwing at dissenters. Lindsay describes being afraid, but normalized the situation as her parents condoned it (09:11-16:35).

“I saw him spit in people’s faces and throw chairs… gave me the impression I never wanted to make him mad.” – Lindsay (09:11)

---

3. “Summer of Love” and Grooming of Young Girls (17:19 - 28:52)

• Abuse structure: Bernard emphasized his spiritual “marriage” to the church, separating from his wife publicly, twisting doctrine for control (18:11-18:50).
• Targeting girls: Victor created the “maidens” – all young girls, justified by Old Testament “firstborn sacrifices” (27:20).
• Manipulation techniques: He used practices like “grazing the sheep”—private, intimate gatherings with girls and women only, building trust, fear, and confusion (19:24-20:20).
• First abuse incidents: Lindsay describes her first nights alone or near Bernard, feeling fear and confusion (23:09-25:25).
• Escalation: At age 12, Lindsay was abused for the first time by Bernard. She was threatened into secrecy and left in emotional isolation (25:25-27:16).

“He told me not to tell anyone, that nobody would understand… that this was just between him and me and God.” – Lindsay (26:38)

---

4. Becoming a “Maiden” and Enduring Systematic Abuse (28:52 – 37:49)

• Definition and duties: At 13, Lindsay became one of ten “maidens,” tasked with domestic, personal, and sexual services for Bernard. Daily routines included cooking, cleaning, personal care—and, for some, involuntary sexual acts (29:36-30:46).
• Isolation: Lindsay thought the role was temporary, only to discover it was meant as a “lifetime commitment” (32:02).
• First rape: Lindsay recounts being called to Bernard’s lodge, interrogated, slapped, and then raped at age 13 (33:05-36:18).
• Psychological impact: Struggled with guilt, isolation, and manipulation regarding faith and salvation—tied to her loyalty to Bernard and the group.

“He led me back to his bedroom… it was almost like an out of body experience… I was just laying there, so scared.” – Lindsay (35:39)

---

5. Ten Years as a Maiden: Control, Indoctrination, and the Slow Awakening (36:55 – 44:05)

• Dedication to the cult: Lindsay describes years of manipulation—her fear of not being with Bernard in “heaven,” gradual emotional dependence, and self-sacrifice (37:06-37:49).
• Birth control: Bernard ensured his victims wouldn’t get pregnant, emphasizing pleasure and control, not reproduction (38:03).
• "Sisterhood": Over time, maidens became a surrogate family, and routines normalized; Bernard’s predation expanded to married women (39:35-40:58).
• First steps toward freedom: Sent to Brazil in 2009, Lindsay got a small taste of outside life and realized the outside world wasn’t tracking her every move (41:18-42:45).

---

6. Leaving the Cult: Re-entry and Aftermath (45:01 – 51:14)

• Breaking away: Contact with outside world, exposure to a normal life, and personal convictions led Lindsay to declare she was “done being a maiden” in June 2010 (45:07-45:57).
• Confrontation: She withstands retribution and guilt from cult members and Bernard; leaves the group and returns to her family in Pennsylvania, still semi-affiliated with Bernard (46:00-46:52).
• Relearning life: Now 23, Lindsay is naïve to basic modern culture—cell phones, texting, the internet, pop music—after more than a decade of total isolation.
• Secular spiral: Despite leaving, she remains spiritually numb for years, turns to promiscuity and “living in sin,” feeling lost and disconnected from God (47:52-49:32).

---

7. Finding Healing: Encounter with the Gospel (51:14 – 54:36)

• Motherhood and rock bottom: Her daughter’s birth leads Lindsay to reconsider faith after a period of suicidal ideation (50:04-51:14).
• Gentle reintroduction to faith: Friends in Texas, who exude “light,” refrain from pressuring her but gently invite her into spiritual conversations (51:14-52:26).
• True gospel: Lindsay is moved when her friends contrast the God of Scripture with the God she was taught. She rediscovers the Bible, experiences healing, and finds that the “emptiness” of new-age/self-help was met only by Christ (53:20-54:36).

“It was like coming home to an old friend… knowing and believing that He was there the whole time… that He leaves the 99 to find one.” – Lindsay (53:30)

---

8. Understanding the Trinity & Healing from Heresy (55:23 – 56:16)

• Lindsay describes the relief and sense of clarity that learning “Jesus is God” brought her, realizing how Bernard’s doctrine was a tool for abuse and why orthodox beliefs matter for spiritual safety.

---

9. Justice, Family Fallout, and Forgiveness (56:19 – 64:36)

• Bringing Victor to justice: In 2012, Lindsay and another maiden go to the police; lengthy investigation, media involvement, and help from Fox News and John Walsh lead to Bernard’s capture and 30-year sentence (56:19-57:14).
• Family consequences: Lindsay is estranged from her parents, who supported Bernard at trial; she struggles to forgive but ultimately chooses to “put them on God’s hook” (57:19-59:19).
• Ongoing healing: She is still in therapy, wrestling with forgiving Bernard, grappling with the enormity of evil, but learning to surrender justice to God (61:31-62:53).

“In a way, it’s taking them off my hook and putting them on God’s hook… truly believing that God has got it all… being able to truly forgive them...was such a burden lifted.” – Lindsay (57:42-59:19)

---

10. Encouragement for Other Survivors (60:33 – 66:20)

• Message: Don’t put your faith in people—“it wasn’t God who hurt me, it was a man who hurt me.” Maintain faith in the Lord, not in church leaders or institutions (60:33-61:26).
• Forgiveness journey: Forgiving the abuser is ongoing, sometimes threatened by trauma triggers, but is grounded in surrendering justice to God rather than wishing harm (61:31-62:53).
• Hope: Allie affirms Lindsay’s courage and expresses hope that Lindsay’s story will help and warn others, reflecting on God’s persistent pursuit of Lindsay “even from a young age” (65:23-66:09).

---

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• On manipulative leadership:
  “He told us that God had audibly spoken to him and had told him to go shepherd his flock and to find people who had once belonged to the Way International and bring them to his ministry.”
  — Lindsay (05:33)
• First warning sign:
  “I saw him spit in people’s faces and throw chairs at people. He just definitely gave me the impression that I never wanted to make him mad.”
  — Lindsay (09:11)
• Abuse and secrecy:
  “He told me not to tell anyone, that nobody would understand that this was just between him and me and God, and, you know, that I was special.”
  — Lindsay (26:38)
• On spiritual abuse:
  “Believing before that Jesus Christ was just a man… it was so clear being explained that he is God. How Victor twisted it to almost make it into himself.”
  — Lindsay (55:56)
• On forgiveness:
  “In a way, it’s taking them off my hook and putting them on God’s hook...I needed to hold people accountable. But really, truly believing that God has got it all… being able to truly forgive them...was such a burden lifted.”
  — Lindsay (57:42-59:19)
• Message to survivors:
  “It wasn’t God who hurt me. It was a man who hurt me...Put your trust and faith in the Lord, knowing He is good, He is perfect, not in man. Because we ultimately will be let down.”
  — Lindsay (60:33)

---

Segment Timestamps

• 01:29 – 09:11: Lindsay’s early upbringing, her family’s induction to the cult, introduction to Victor Bernard
• 09:11 – 17:19: Life at the Shepherd’s Camp, Bernard’s authority and isolation tactics, early trauma normalization
• 17:19 – 28:52: Shifting to “maidens,” onset of sexual abuse, spiritual manipulation using Scripture
• 28:52 – 37:49: Becoming/being a maiden, systemized abuse, emotional indoctrination
• 37:49 – 44:05: Years in captivity, awakening, and the first steps toward escape
• 45:01 – 51:14: Lindsay’s departure, re-entry to society, initial struggle with faith and identity
• 51:14 – 54:36: Encountering true Christianity, healing through Christ
• 55:23 – 56:16: Learning the Trinity and differentiating truth from heresy
• 56:19 – 64:36: Bringing Victor to justice, family rupture, therapeutic forgiveness
• 60:33 – 66:09: Advice and hope for other trauma survivors, importance of trusting God

---

Overall Tone

The conversation is candid, sensitive, and faith-filled. Allie Beth Stuckey weaves empathy and encouragement with robust Christian theology, pressing for hope and healing without downplaying trauma. Lindsay's story is told with humility and courage, never sensationalized but always honest.

---

Closing Remarks

• How to support Lindsay: She requests prayers and hopes to share her story wider, possibly through a book. Allie highlights the crucial need to heed warning signs of spiritual abuse and offers hope for those harmed by leaders in the name of God.
• Central message: True healing is found in Jesus; do not place ultimate trust in people or organizations, but in Christ alone.

---

This episode is essential listening for anyone seeking to understand the mechanisms of spiritual abuse, the impact of cults, and the possibility for redemption and hope, even after the worst betrayals.

Transcript

[A]

Coca Cola for the big, for the small, the short and the tall. Peacemakers, risk takers for the optimists, pessimists for long distance love for introverts and extroverts, the thinkers and the doers for old friends and new Coca Cola for everyone. Pick up some Coca Cola at a store near you.

[B]

Lindsay Tornambe was raised in an abusive cult. It wasn't until she was 23 that her eyes were opened and she left that cult. But then 13 years after she left, after 13 dark and very tumultuous years, she finally heard the gospel of Jesus Christ and he saved her. Her testimony is heart wrenching, but it is also such a beautiful and powerful reminder that God turns beauty out of ashes. You will be so encouraged by Lindsay's story. Our episode today is brought to you by our friends at Good ranchers. Go to good ranchers.com use code ALI at checkout for a discount. That's good ranchers.com code ALLY.

Lindsay, thanks so much for matching me on my podcast today. We didn't plan it, but here we go. Can you tell everyone who you are and what you do?

[A]

Yes, I am Lindsay. I'm a single mom. I work from home, which has been such a blessing being a single mom. I have such a testimony of faith and survival that I'm now sharing with the world, which I'm really thankful for. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

You left a cult.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And a lot of people have no idea what that really entails. Before we get into that part of your testimony, though, I want to know how you were brought up. Were you brought up in a cult?

[A]

I was brought up. My parents were involved in something called the Way International, which was started BY A man, Dr. Victor Paul Rawell, I believe in the 1950s in New Knoxville, Ohio. And he there were some major differences that they believed. They didn't believe in the Trinity. So God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit, we're all three separate beings, which is really important to remember. As you know, my story continues. And so we believed also in speaking in tongues, interpretation and prophecy. We had church in our home. So I grew up having a genuine love for the Lord, reading the King James Bible, praying. At such an early age, my mom would tell me stories of even in preschool, kids were afraid to walk into school and I would grab their hand and ask to pray with them and lead them in. And so, yeah, I would say grew up pretty normal from what I thought, you know, still seeing family members and celebrating Christmas, Thanksgiving, birthdays. But yeah, learning about Jesus and God at Home, not going to a traditional church.

[B]

Interesting. So did you believe that Jesus was God?

[A]

No.

[B]

You didn't? Okay. Because this is kind of reminding me a little bit of Jehovah's Witness. But of course, Jehovah's Witness, they don't celebrate things like Christmas. I'm not sure if Jehovah's wouldn't speak in tongues. So it seems like a convergence of a lot of different Christian beliefs. But also polytheistic beliefs, too.

[A]

Yes. Yeah, I. Yeah, just thought that he was a man, you know, God was his father, but he himself was not God.

[B]

Okay, but did you believe that he died on the cross for your sins? Okay.

[A]

Yep, I believe that he died on the cross and that, you know, Romans 10, 9 and 10 once I can believe that he was my Lord and Savior, confessed it with my mouth that I was saved and would be going to heaven.

[B]

And tell me about the rest of your upbringing.

[A]

It was pretty normal. I'm the oldest of five siblings. We had, or we started getting homeschooled when I was in the fourth grade.

My parents met this man, Victor Bernard, when I was nine years old. He was also a member of the Way International. The founder had died in 1985, and things kind of broke up. But we still had church in our home. And he came to visit. It was November of 1996. And he carried this. You know, when you meet someone and they, like, carry this authority, and you can just tell that they are someone who wants to be respected. And he definitely had that. And I was 9, so I didn't really see any red flags or anything. My sisters and I put on a dance, you know, for everyone in the living room. But I do remember after he left, my parents made it very clear that we were going back to scripture, that they had gotten involved in something called Amway. And so, you know, our house was filled with pictures of cars they wanted and the dreams.

[B]

You had gotten involved in Amway before. Before Victor.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Did Victor have anything to do with Amway?

[A]

No. No, nothing.

[B]

This was different. Okay. Who was Victor?

[A]

He told us that God had audibly spoken to him and had told him to go shepherd his flock and to find people who had once belonged to the Way International and bring them to his ministry. He said that God had ordained him and that he was an apostle and called of God to now be our shepherd.

[B]

Had he been a part of the Way International previously? Was he in leadership?

[A]

He was not in leadership. He was a part of the Way International. He did, at one point get assigned to Dr. Werwol's wife to kind of, you know, walk with her to meetings. And it was after. I believe it was after Dr. Werwell had passed away that he was assigned to her.

[B]

Okay, so that's the guy who started it. This Victor guy was assigned to his wife after her husband died, who started it, to try to, I don't know, kind of be her guardian, be her helper and things like that.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So he felt tasked by God as an apostle to go shepherd the Flock of the Way International.

And. And he came to your parents house to say, you know, this is not over. You might have felt like this was breaking up because doctor. The doctor died, but we're getting back at it and y' all are gonna, you know, come back into the fold. And your parents, after his visitation, they had a renewed vigor that, okay, we have to get serious about this again, right?

[A]

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Things started changing. My mom. My dream at that time, when I was nine years old, was to be an Olympian and I was in gymnastics, and my mom pulled me aside and told me that when Jesus Christ comes back, he's not going to care how many gold medals I won, and that none of that mattered in this life, which in a sense is true. You know, like now I want my life to completely glorify the Lord. It was in light of what Victor just kind of shared with them, the urgency of Jesus Christ coming back. And.

Her point to me was that none of this stuff mattered. And so we were just going to live our lives for Christ.

[B]

How else did your life change?

[A]

We started really only hanging out with people who had been involved in the Way ministry. So my parents reconnected with some friends, former friends who had been involved in the Way, who. Who also knew Victor Bernard. And so we started having fellowship in the home, that's what we called it, church in the Home together. Started visiting their house a lot more. They started making plans for us to visit Minnesota, which is where Victor was from and where his cult was at the time.

[B]

And what was the significance of Minnesota? I know you said that he lived there, but why were people visiting there? To do what?

[A]

Basically, to hear him preach. They had a compound there. It was called the Shepherd's Camp, where they had a bunch of staff housing, a big chapel, the dining hall, places for visitors to stay. And so my family, my parents, really wanted to be around Victor to learn more about God's word. I think they definitely saw him as a shepherd, as somebody who was ordained of God. And so they really wanted. I think they were Seeking someone to follow.

[B]

And do you remember the first time you went to Minnesota to visit him? Mm. How old were you?

[A]

I was 10. My parents, we drove out there. They brought me and my sister right after me and another friend from the fellowship. And it's this tiny little town. I remember my dad joking that if you blinked, you would miss it. Finlayson, Minnesota, the camp, it was down this long dirt road and you turned in pine trees everywhere. Very, very secluded. But also it was beautiful, absolutely beautiful. There were so many families that lived there and lots of kids. I had a blast pretty much the whole time I was there because I was just playing with kids the whole time and there were so many animals. There were a few things that scared me, though. We would have meals that would last for a really long time and people who disagreed with Victor. I saw him spit in people's faces and throw chairs at people. He just definitely gave me the impression that I never wanted to make him mad.

[B]

First sponsor for the day is seven Weeks Coffee. This is a great Christmas gift for the coffee lovers in your life because this is a pro life coffee company. They're called seven weeks coffee because it's seven weeks gestation. That little baby inside the womb is the size of a coffee bean. Yet he or she, no matter how small, is made in God's image. Therefore they're worthy of life. That is why 10% of every sale of seven weeks coffee goes to a pregnancy center across the country. They've raised over a million dollars for these life saving pregnancy centers that are the hands of feet of Jesus helping these moms and dads and saving these babies lives. Seven Weeks Coffee. We drink it in our home. It is so good and it tastes amazing. It's super high quality, better than organic, ethically raised, sustainably sourced, all the good stuff. If you go to seven weeks coffee.com and you use my code Ali, you'll get 10% off your order. That's seven weeks coffee calm code Ali.

After you went back home, what was life like?

[A]

Kind of went back to normal. We were still being homeschooled. We did. This was pretty cell phones and iPads. So me and a couple of the kids would write letters to each other back and forth. My parents did listen to a lot of the tapes that Victor had given them of teachings he had previously recorded, and he had given them a bunch of books he had written to read. So September of 1998, Victor flew to Pennsylvania, which is where my family lived, and pretty much gave them an ultimatum that we either needed to Move to the camp and join his ministry there, or we were no longer allowed to visit.

[B]

So you had to move there full time?

[A]

No, we hadn't at that point. We had just visited.

[B]

But you had to. That's what he was trying to say, right? Yeah, Gotcha.

[A]

Yes. And I wasn't in the meeting, but I know from just seeing my parents afterwards, it was very somber and very serious. And it didn't take them long, though. They decided to sell the house and pretty much get rid of everything besides what some people maybe in Minnesota needed.

And I don't even really remember my parents making it a big deal of us moving. You know, like, I don't remember it being a big deal with my grandparents or aunts and uncles. And looking back, I almost feel like it was on purpose, because if I had known that I would really never see them again, I don't know that I would have wanted to go because we were very close with my mom and dad's side of the family.

And I found out later, after I finally left in my 20s, that my mother had actually written a letter to her parents and siblings saying that if anyone tried to stop us, she would cut all communication off. So she definitely knew, I think, what she was getting herself into.

[B]

So y' all moved to there. You were like 11?

[A]

I was. I was still 10 or. No, I was 11. Yes.

[B]

Okay, so you moved there 1998. And what did it look like actually living there?

[A]

They moved our family into two separate units. There was this place called the 4 Plex. It was 4 kind of mini apartments, you know, with like a mini fridge, a tuna burner, stove, had two bedrooms each. So because we were a family of seven, they split us up.

And there were 80 people living.

[B]

Two siblings.

[A]

Four siblings.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yes, there were 80 people living at the camp at that time. So it was busy, I mean, kids everywhere. For a while, Victor had. He kind of made the roles and everyone had to follow. So if he wanted to have breakfast, lunch and dinner altogether, that's what happened. If he only wanted to have dinner altogether, that's what happened. But many long meals, lots of teachings and sharing for me as an 11 year old, you know, animal care, being homeschooled, skating on the lake, sledding.

[B]

Did your dad have to work?

[A]

I don't even remember if my dad. I know at that time, I don't think he did work. Later on, he did work at a cabinet shop that was run from one of the locations by the church.

[B]

So is the food and all of this stuff being paid for by like tithing or donations or how does that work?

[A]

Yeah, great question. I honestly don't know that answer. I've always wondered where the money came from. I know people did tithe 10% was what they gave, but other than that, I'm actually not really sure where all the money came from for everything.

[B]

So for the most part, this kind of felt like a normal childhood, at least at first. But you said that you noticed that Victor was very angry, that he would shun people, he would throw things, yell at people. You told a story about an elder, shook your five year old sister so much that she ended up like wedding herself out of fear. What was your reaction when you saw that?

[A]

Oh, I was scared. I remember comforting her.

It's tough, you know, it's hard because your parents are there and they trust these people, you know. And as a kid I was seeing all these things and getting scared, but my parents, you know, I felt like I trusted them at that time to do what was best for us and they were okay with letting this stuff happen. And you know, my parents, they did use corporal punishment on us growing up. Not to that extent, but it wasn't not normal to get, you know, hit with a rod or, you know, smacked around. So I think, yeah, it definitely made me scared, but I just thought this was life now.

[B]

Yeah. And just to close the loop on this, you mentioned Amway earlier that your family had been in Amway. Is that a significant part of your story?

[A]

No, not significant. I think it just it for me, I guess it kind of showed that we. My parents were really into the word when I was younger and then they kind of drifted away to more worldly things. And then when Victor came, they kind of went back to the word.

[B]

Okay, so they quit Amway, right?

[A]

They did quit.

[B]

Okay. And kind of pulled y' all out of everything that was seemingly worldly, materialistic, earthly success.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Things like that. And really went back to kind of like what they considered a fundamentalist, pure view of the way.

[A]

Correct.

[B]

Y' all moved to this camp. Did you see as you were getting older, into your pre teen and teen years, things that started to disturb you?

[A]

Yeah. When I was 12, at this point, my family or the. The church had acquired another property about five miles from the camp. And so my family was sent to live there.

And that's that summer of 1999. That's when the summer of love happened. Victor was really honing in on all the women at the camp, really portraying himself as our shepherd, using the Song of Solomon as a Reference to kind of relate to him and the church.

[B]

So you said we like including little girls.

[A]

Yes, yes.

September of 1998, before my family moved to the Shepherd's camp, Victor had taken off his wedding ring. He was married and had four children. He took off his wedding ring and said that just as Jesus Christ is married to the church and the bride of Christ, he was now married to the church. Which I think is important to, to know because of especially how we viewed God and Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit being all separate. Jesus Christ as a man. It was almost like him saying he is Christ in the flesh, you know, being married to the church.

[B]

Right. Okay. So tell me about the Summer of Love in 1999.

[A]

The Summer of Love happened, 1999. Victor had an RV and he would travel. There was about three other properties that the believers lived on at this point. I think there's about 150 people involved in this cult. And so they were all spread across these three properties. So he would take his RV and travel to the three different properties where some young women are, including me. And I was only 12 at the time.

He would do things we called grazing the sheep, where we would go out. He would take his shepherd's staff and blankets and lay down in the grass with us and even the married women and share stuff from the Bible or just things that he was thinking about in the church. And he didn't do this with the men or young men. He was very strategic on targeting the women and the young girls. He demanded a lot of respect at that time. You know, roses being placed where he would go to meetings. And again, always, I mean I.

[B]

Roses being placed. Like someone would have to go before him and put roses there before he.

[A]

Yeah, like at a meeting, put a rose there. It was something that Dr. Wehrwill did or had done for him in the Way ministry. And so he was kind of adapting that for him.

[B]

Did you ever think as a 12 year old this whole grazing the grass thing is weird?

[A]

I so no, not at that point. I did not think it was weird. He at one point shared with me and my sister that before he came and found us in 1996, he was sitting in that exact same pasture crying out to God and praying to find survivors of the Way International. And he told my sister and I that we were the joy of his tears and how we were the fruit of what God had told him to do. So he, you know, as a young kid and this is the person that God had put in our life, I feared him But I also felt I am special, you know?

[B]

Right, right. And your mom clearly trusted him. Was she going on these ventures out into the pasture?

[A]

Yes. Yes, absolutely.

[B]

And you never got any indication from your parents at this time that this is kind of creepy?

[A]

No, not at all. Not at all.

[B]

So you, as a child, you trust your parents?

[A]

Right.

[B]

Next sponsor is EveryLife. This is the Pro Life Diaper Company. We use EveryLife diapers exclusively in our home. We love them, made of totally clean materials, but I would not be using them if they didn't work. They work great, and we've used them from newborn to toddler years, and they are awesome. I love that this is a company that shares my values. Unfortunately, that's just not true of a lot of diaper companies. The great thing, too, they also make fun of feminine care now. Pads, tampons, things like that. And one thing is for sure, a lot of feminine care companies can't even define what a woman is. So if you want a company that can define what a woman is, that actually cares about life inside the womb, then you need to shop at EveryLife. Go to EveryLife.com EveryLife.com use code ALLY10 for 10% off your first order today. That's EveryLife.com code ALI10.

Tell us more about what happened that summer.

[A]

That was the first summer that my parents.

Agreed to have us, me and my sister, sleep in a camper with Victor.

[B]

How many sisters do you have?

[A]

Three sisters. Okay. And their ages at this point, gosh, I was 11. So it would be 8, 6, and 4. Okay.

[B]

So I think you had said that you were 12. So 11 or 12 at this.

In 1999, that this is happening. Okay. And Victor approached your parents and said, hey, I need them to sleep in the RV with me.

[A]

It was actually one of the, like, older young ladies who was serving at where we lived at three taverns. I think she was maybe 19 at the time. And she had asked my parents if it was okay.

They said yes. Which, as a mother now, like, I just. I don't know. There's so many red flags. I still cannot understand why my parents said yes to that. Yeah, we didn't sleep in the bedroom with him. We slept out in the kitchen area. But that was the first time he ever wrote us a note. And it just said, I love you, and he slid it under the door.

But, yeah, that just. I never really understood. It seemed like he was wanting love from us, but I definitely did not have it back for him at that point. I respected him and feared Him. But it wasn't that I was actively seeking.

Right, right.

[B]

And nothing else happened that first time?

[A]

No.

[B]

In the rv. But that was just the first time. There were other times, right?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Later that summer, he had a bunch of girls my age who had. You know, I'd known them since I was 10, when we first visited.

And they were all at the location where I lived. He had set up a tent. And that same girl who asked my parents if me and my sisters could sleep in the camper, she asked all us who wanted to sleep next to him. And everyone raised their hand. And I did not. I could. Was so scared. I did not want to sleep next to him. I couldn't believe why the rest were. And she picked me to sleep next to him. And she told me it was because I didn't raise my hand. And I remember just laying there as stiff as a board, not wanting to move, afraid to breathe because I was just so nervous. And, you know, when you can feel that people are jealous of you and they're. That's what I was feeling from the other girls, like they wanted to be me. And I just didn't understand it, you know, I. But nothing. Again, he did not touch me that night.

Nothing happened until it was, I think, January of 2000. So I. I think, had just turned 12 at this point. And his camper, again, was at three taverns where our family lived. And somebody had asked me, I think it was maybe to go bring him the mail or, you know, give him a message. And I walked into his camper, and he was standing in the back in the bathroom completely naked. And again, I'm 12, you know, not developed, looking like a little kid, and walked. He told me to come towards him, and I just stood there, you know, very unsure of what to do, very nervous. And he grabbed my hand and had me put it on his penis.

And.

I don't even know if I was breathing at that point, you know, I just felt very alone. And he had me lay in the bed next to him. And I remember him telling me that I could do more if I wanted, but I didn't. And I didn't say anything. And I think he got the hint that I was not going to do anything else. Yeah. Oh, my gosh.

[B]

I can't imagine.

[A]

He told me not to tell anyone, that nobody would understand that this was just between him and me and God, and, you know, that I was special. And I didn't. I remember you didn't tell your parents. I didn't tell my parents, no. And, you know, my mom never had these kinds of talks with us. She never talked about inappropriate touching or inappropriate behavior. And from my. What I saw from my parents and from the rest of the adults, everyone loved him and adored Victor, but I was just so closed off and nervous, and I just, like, shoved it in the back of my brain.

[B]

Wow. Was that the only time?

[A]

No. That summer of 2000, Victor gave a teaching to the church about how in the Old Testament, the firstborn children were to be sacrificed to God. And he read off a list of names, mine was on there and basically said that we could give our lives to Christ and dedicate a life of service to the church and how much honor it would bring on our family.

I, you know, I saw my friends deciding to do this, all the girls that I had been growing up with, and I didn't not at the time, know that it was a lifetime commitment. And, you know, I have it in my memoirs that I wrote while I was there in 2008 that it became almost a running joke in the maintenance. Oh, Lindsay didn't know what she was getting herself into.

And I told my parents, oh, I want to go. I want to go serve in the summer. And in my mind, I thought, I'll be back to being homeschooled in the fall. You know, I'm only 13. And they were very serious, and they're like, are you sure you want to go? And my dad was crying, and I was like, yes, absolutely. It'll be fun.

[B]

Did you know what it entailed? So he just said, sacrifice your firstborn. Here's your life of service. Did he say what the life of service would be?

[A]

Basically just serving at the camp and, you know, dedicating our life to just.

Helping out, you know, serving. Whether it was getting ready for meetings. He didn't really give a laid out plan of all that it looked like.

[B]

Boys and girls.

[A]

Nope, just girls.

[B]

Okay, so even if there was a first born born boy, he was not.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Someone that was chosen for a lifetime of service.

[A]

Correct.

[B]

Did anyone say, well, hang on, I have a firstborn son? Why is it just. Why is just my daughter?

[A]

Yeah. Not that I know of.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, Maybe secretly. But they didn't protest publicly because obviously Victor had already kind of created that environment where you don't question him.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Or you're gonna be shunned. Okay, so you said a word. Maidens. What's that?

[A]

That became what the 10 of us were called, maidens. So my parents, yeah, July 23, 2000, dropped me off at the Shepherd's Camp. And ironically, the 10 of us lived in that fourplex, which was what, you know, my family lived in when we first moved to the camp. And things in the beginning were kind of okay. We were assigned two by two, you know, kitchen duty, gardening, cleaning. Two people were assigned to help Victor, which was basically everything that a wife would do, maybe even more stuff than a wife would do. Waking him up in the morning, making his breakfast, picking out his clothes, helping him out of the shower, organizing his day.

[B]

Is he old? How old was he?

[A]

I think he was 39 at this point.

[B]

Okay, so he didn't actually need physical help getting out of the shower?

[A]

No.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

No. But it would be like handing him his towel, putting lotion on his legs, things like that.

[B]

Very disturbing. And what was your role?

[A]

I think I was gardening at that point.

[B]

Okay. And so he didn't select you for the more intimate things?

[A]

No.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

No.

[B]

Yeah. Thank God.

[A]

Seriously.

[B]

So much of the content that we consume online today makes us feel dumber but not relatable and not the online courses that you'll take with Hillsdale. If you go to Hillsdale. Edu Relatable, you can access all of these free courses either on the rise and fall of the Roman Empire or the book of Genesis or the works of C.S. lewis, Colonial America. You will become a better historian. You'll become a better philosopher, theologian, apologist, all at Hillsdale. Totally for free. Go to Hillsdale. Edu Relatable.

[A]

There was a feast that Victor would have us celebrate every, I think, early September from the Old Testament, the feast of Tabernacles, which kind of referenced, you know, bringing in the harvest and thanking God for all that he had done for us that year. And so I was under the impression that I would serve there and live at the camp until that, and then I would go home and be homeschooled. I didn't bring any of my winter stuff with me.

And I was talking to. We'll call her Jan. If anyone listened to my story on the turning, she was referenced as Jan. And we were gardening in front of the chapel, and she was asking how things are going, and I was like, oh, great. It's been fun. I'm really excited, though, to get home to see my family. I really miss my siblings. And she looked at me and she goes, lindsay, you're not going home. And I just kind of looked at her, and I was like, what do you mean? And she said, no, this is a lifetime commitment. You're not going home. This is your home now. And I Said, well, what about homeschool and my winter clothes? And she's like, well, your mom will send it over and we'll take care of schooling here, which they never really did. I really only had a sixth grade education.

And it was shortly after that that I was raped by Victor for the first time.

[B]

You were 13? 14.

[A]

13, yeah. He.

Called me up to the lodge. That's where he lived. We called it the Lodge one night. And he was sitting, you know, just how we are. There was a fire going in the fireplace. And it was small talk at first. And then he looked at me and said, have you ever masturbated before? And I, honest to God, didn't even know what that word meant. You know. Again, my mother had never talked to me about these things.

And, you know, pretty sheltered being homeschooled. And we didn't really have TV besides movies.

And I don't know why he thought I was lying. And he kept asking me again and again, and I kept saying no. I didn't know even what he meant. And he slapped me across the face and yelled at me to get out of the lodge. And I had been sweating so much that it felt like the couch was leather. It felt like ripping Band aids off of my legs when I got off of the couch. And I ran down the dark road back to the fourplex, just sobbing and cried, you know, went to my room and cried into my pillow. And I kept thinking, at that point, God, why is this happening? Why did my parents leave me here? It was about 45 minutes later, one of the maidens came and said that Victor was on the phone for me. And he asked me to come back to the lodge.

And when I got back in there, his whole demeanor had changed. He was very nice, didn't bring up anything that had happened. He started off by telling me that.

Jesus Christ had Mary Magdalene and the apostle Paul had Phoebe and probably other women as he traveled throughout Asia. And he is a man of God because of his calling.

And my calling, dedicating my life to God, that it was spiritual and natural for him to have sex with me. And that even though he would be having sex with me, I could remain a virgin spiritually.

And.

Again, I didn't say anything. I feel like I was just a deer in headlights, unsure of what to do. He led me back to his bedroom, and I remember he put a towel on the bed because he told me that sometimes the first time you have sex, the woman can bleed, which made me even more scared. And it was almost like a out of body experience, in a way. He had a.

Deck on the back of the bedroom with glass doors, and it was like I was looking and seeing what was happening to me, and I was just laying there, so scared. And he got really mad at one point that I wasn't being passionate enough, and I still just laid there. I didn't.

[B]

Child.

[A]

Yeah. Didn't know what to do. And then that was pretty much it. I mean, he just sent me back to the fourplex after that. And I remember just again asking, like, why, God? Why is this happening? Why can't I go home? I miss my siblings. I miss my parents. And.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, that was the first of many, many times of being raped by him.

[B]

Okay, and how old were you when you left the cult?

[A]

23.

[B]

You were 23. So 10 years of that, of being a maiden. And.

So was there at any point, obviously, you were so scared and so hurt the first time, but was there at any point before you left that you were like, yes, I love him, and, you know, I believe that this is right and good. What did that look like before you left?

[A]

I would say it wasn't until end of 2005, 2006. It took me a long time to get there. A lot of fear, a lot of manipulation.

One thing that Victor would tell us is that the more we dedicated ourselves to him in this life and to God, the better place in heaven we would have.

And so I think the thought of not being in heaven with the maidens and with Victor really scared me.

But it took five, six years for me to really get fully dedicated to him. And finally to the point where I was like, okay, I will die for him if necessary. You know, I mean, he would tell us a story all the time of Silas in jail, and, you know, if that ever got to the point where he was in jail, would we stay in our faith and.

You know, stand up for him? And. Yeah, it was. It took a while, but I did finally get to that point.

[B]

Did you ever get pregnant?

[A]

No. No. I did try when I was 14.

[B]

You tried?

[A]

I tried. It was before he had a vasectomy. He had these. It almost looked like a tampon. And I don't even know what it is because I've never researched it since, but it was like a jelly that the woman would insert herself to kill the sperm. Yeah, sperm suck.

[B]

So. Okay, that's interesting. He wasn't necessarily trying to breed as many babies as possible. He just. It was just about his pleasure manipulating y'. All. Okay, let's fast forward a little Bit to. Okay. At some point, you think that you're in love with him. I guess when you're about 18, 19 years old.

In these last few years, that you're in the cold before you leave at 23, like, what does that look like? And then what do those final days and hours look like?

[A]

We had sold the Shepherd's camp at that point, so the maidens were living at a different location. We had started a pottery business together. We were just doing a lot of. A lot of things. We really became a sisterhood at that point.

Let me see. Hold on. I'm trying to, like, think of.

It was kind of. It was a quiet time for the maidens. You know, our life had been so public at the Shepherd's Camp, and so moving to this other location kind of gave us time to grow. Victor would come over for dinners a lot.

Yeah. So it was. It was almost like a slowing down, really getting to, I guess, know one another even more. Not much jealousy, more of a working together. Um, in 2008, one of the maidens, she was originally from Brazil. The US Wouldn't renew her visa, and so she was extradited back to Brazil. Victor would always have us stay in twos, and so he would send one of us down to live with her. Her every six months, and we would switch out. It also kind of during this time, it came out that he had been sleeping with some of the married women.

One of the married women he had slept with went to the police and shared with them what was going on. Wrote a bunch of stuff about the maidens. And in Minnesota, it's illegal as a pastor to be sleeping with the people you were pastoring. And so he shared this all with us, but in a way that would make you feel bad for him, you know, like David and Bathsheba, and the temptation was too big. And just as God forgave David, he would forgive Victor. And we needed to find it in our hearts to forgive Victor. But he kind of went on the run at that point. Sometimes we didn't even know where he was.

So. And at that point, again, I. I did wrestle with the fact that he had slept with married women. It's strange, because I knew that was wrong. I felt that that was wrong. But I didn't, at that time even know that what he had done to me was rape. Like, I. I didn't see it that way.

And so Victor sent me down to Brazil, September of 2009 to March of 2010, which was my first time traveling alone, really getting away from the Camp. And I remember I sat in one of those seats on the plane and they had the TV screens there, which I hadn't ever seen that before. And I was like, oh, do I watch a movie? Do I not? Like, surely they're gonna find out. I thought everything was tracked. You know, the pilot's gonna tell Victor there's gonna be a bill somewhere. You know, I just thought everything I did, they would know. But I did. I watched a movie. Just one, though. I was like, what was it? It was this British teenage rom com called Angus Thongs and Perfect snogging.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Didn't even know what I was picking. But I remember watching and thinking, oh, my gosh, I wish I had a life like this, you know? And I'd remembered being 10, 11, having crushes on some of the boys there, and it was just. I don't know, I watched the movie and I was like, okay, that's enough. No more. I'm already in enough trouble.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But living in Brazil was my first time almost remembering that there was a world out there. You know, we had been so sheltered. We didn't have tv, we didn't have radios. I didn't even see images of 911 until 2010.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah. Just what Victor told us.

[B]

Even think of that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Like, so many things that happened.

So. Yeah. And I remember kind of feeling distant and more distant from Victor. And he did overlap my visit. He came down March of 2010 with his wife and one of the other maidens.

[B]

So he was still married during this.

[A]

Still married. In fact, she lived in the house next door to where the lodge was at the camp. She lived in the house right next to it.

[B]

Wow. Okay. So he came down to Brazil.

[A]

Yeah. In March of 2010 and overlapped my visit for 15 days. And I purposely positioned myself to where he would not be able to have sex with me. I just felt very.

Distant from him and did not want that from him. So then they sent me. At that point, most people had relocated to Washington state.

And so I went back out to Washington state. The maidens, again, were living in one house and they had started a cleaning company. So we were going door to door, just giving our flyers and asking to clean people's homes. And I remember going in and seeing tons of, like, family pictures on the walls. And at one point the Titanic soundtrack was playing. And I was like, oh, my gosh, I remember this, you know, like, it was just, yeah, why can't I?

[B]

Because that was like 1997. You were like, oh, yeah. I had a life before this, which you had probably almost kind of forgotten about.

Quick pause to tell you about our next sponsor. It's Adele Natural Cosmetics. You guys know how much I love Adele. Arlene and her family are amazing. They're the real deal. They love the Lord. They love America. They are unapologetically pro life. Plus, all of their products really work. I use their cosmetics, their skin care items on a daily basis. They're completely holistic, natural, none of that fake stuff. Plus, their holiday line is so fun. It smells amazing without any of these of those fake fragrances. If you go to Adele Natural Cosmetics.com and you use code ALI, you get 25 off your first time purchase. That's Adele Natural Cosmetics.com code ALLY.

Okay, so contact with the outside world is when things kind of started crumbling inside you, right?

[A]

Yeah. So it was June of 2010, and I'm sitting on the couch with one of the. She was like the head of the maidens. And I just looked at her and I said, I don't want to be a maiden anymore. And I don't agree with Victor sleeping with the married woman. And I want to leave. I want to get married and have a family. And she immediately called her mother, who was Jan, and she came over and, you know, they said all this stuff. You must not love God anymore, and you're going to forget your first love, meaning Victor. The blood of the lamb covers all sin. You just need to forgive him and move on. Then they got Victor on the line, and still to this day, I'm like, how did I stay strong? Because there. I mean, there's been a few other times that I tried to leave as a teenager that I told Victor I wanted to leave, and it just did not go my way.

[B]

So he just manipulated you into staying?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Called me Judas Iscariot, you know, just like, said all these terrible things.

So. But I told them, I was like, nope, I am leaving. I want to leave. And they called my family, who had, in 2009, I believe, moved back to Pennsylvania because of Victor sleeping with the married women. A lot of things had kind of broken up in Minnesota. And they said, yeah, I can move in with them. So they. Everything happened really fast. They gave me $500 and bought me a train ticket, and I took Amtrak all the way from Washington State to 30th Street Station in Philadelphia. And it took me three days.

[B]

But they were still. Were your parents still in the way?

[A]

Yeah. Yes. Yeah. In Victor's ministry and.

[B]

But I guess they weren't worried about going against Victor, they let you come home?

[A]

They did let me come home. They still were sending money to him and had pictures of him up in the house. My mom was very much involved with everything going on in Washington, on the phone with them all the time. I think my dad had kind of started slipping away from. From the ministry.

Yeah. So I moved, and. Oh, my gosh, I, like, didn't even know what the Internet was. I remember somebody telling me what a cell phone was and how you could text on it. I'm like, how is that even possible? Like, how is that faster than calling someone? You know, things were just so foreign.

I remember one of the first things I looked up was the Backstreet Boys, because they were popular. When I left, like, what is Nick Carter doing? Yeah, I know. I was like, oh, my gosh. Like, is he married? Yeah. Wow.

[B]

Yeah, you were like a time capsule. Okay, so when you moved back home to Pennsylvania, did you leave or. Like, what was your faith like at that point?

[A]

Yeah, I would say. I would say I still believed in God at that point, but I was not wanting to remain faithful to Victor and the maidens.

I had gotten a few letters, a couple phone calls, and I would write back here and there, but eventually I just stopped responding. I really gave myself over to or. At that point, I thought the only way to make a man happy was to sleep with him. And so I slept around a lot. I lived in a lot of sin. I didn't. At that point, I didn't know what Victor had done. Still to me. I would just tell people, oh, I was really sheltered, because they would say, what, have you lived under a rock? Like, how do you not know these things? Yeah, you were.

[B]

You said 23.

[A]

23.

[B]

So you were just going out into the world?

[A]

Yeah, I got my first job. I joined three ultimate Frisbee leagues. At one time, I was just. Anytime somebody said, hey, do you want to do this? I was all in. I just wanted to live life. Understandable. And I. Oh, made a lot of terrible choices, though. You know, I. I don't think I thought much about God. I. I knew I believed in him, but I did not pray to him, really. I didn't read my Bible. I just was really interested in exploring and living life and making friends and. And getting away from my parents, you know, because they were still supporting Victor.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Tell me about hearing the gospel.

[A]

Oh, gosh. That was 13 years later after that.

[B]

So up until 13 years later, when you were 36, you were just basically living a secular life?

[A]

Yes. Yep.

[B]

And you had a job, you had boyfriends, you had friends, but you were lost.

[A]

Yeah, very lost. I had a daughter in 2014.

Oh, gosh. Which she. It's like, cliche to say, but I know God gave her to me just at the right time. I was really at a low place, thinking of ending my life. You know, I just kept thinking over and over again, if God is a God of love that I read and believed for so long, why would he let this happen to me? You know, if heaven is so great, why don't I kill myself now and. And not live in this internal pain that I feel? You know, because of everything that had happened. Yeah.

And my daughter Francesca, 5 or 6 years old, started asking questions. Why don't we pray, Mom? I remember driving down the highway in New Jersey, and she said, mom, if a mommy has a baby and that baby dies and goes to heaven and God sends that mommy a new baby, is that like God giving her a new baby for her to care for? And I. I didn't know what to say. You know, I. I did know that I didn't want to put my trauma on her. You know, I had enough sense to. To think, okay, if she wants to go to church, I will support that. I want to support this.

But it wasn't until we moved to Texas in 2022 that we met some friends in our apartment complex. And they just had this light about them. You know, when you meet people and you're like, I want to be friends with them, they just have exude this love. And they were Christians. They did not pressure me to go to church, though, which I really respected, because a lot of people had done that. They almost made me feel guilty for feeling the way I was feeling.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I shared my story with the wife one night after we had gotten close. And it was a couple months after that. We were sitting after dinner, and I looked at her and I said, this is going to sound crazy, but thank you for never inviting me to Bible study. And she started crying, and she said, lindsay, when I heard your story, I went home and just wept tears for you, because the God I know is not the one who was preached to you. And I think my heart, like God, was just drawing me in. It was the. The timing of it was amazing. They asked if I wanted to stay for devotions that night, and I said yes. And they picked a hymn that they didn't know I knew, but I had grown up singing it since I could remember. And what was it? I don't even remember now. Maybe they will have to ask. But the husband used to be a pastor. And I told them later that night I said, I would love for somebody to sit down with me and I can go through things that Victor had taught. And then I want to open the Bible and I want to see what God actually says. And immediately they said, we'd love to do that with you. And I went home that night and opened the Bible. It was the one that Victor had given me. I sat on my couch and opened it and just cried. And it was like coming home to an old friend because, you know, like, I did know him when I was little. And I read through my journals now, even from when I was in the cult. And it's always, thank you God, for keeping me safe. Like, thank you for providing bread for us today. I didn't know where we were going to get any, you know, thank you for giving us shampoo and conditioner because we were out. And.

It'S just knowing and believing that he was there the whole time. You know, even after I rejected him for 13 years, that he was there carrying me.

Oh, just so overwhelming, you know, it's like that he leaves the 99 to find one. He was just all those years drawing me and drawing me in and my heart was, was open to him. And we started going to church and I remember the first few times I went, I, you know, we were singing hymns that I had grown up singing and just crying through them because it was just such an overwhelming sense of thank you Lord. Like this is what I've been missing. And I had tried before this all of the self help stuff, you know, the self love, the crystals, the. I bought a book on witchcraft, you know, like all the things. And I always came up feeling so empty, so unsatisfied. And it wasn't until going back to church and reading the Bible and knowing and believing truly in, in Christ, in, in God that I just felt so full again.

[B]

If you are a business owner, you're worried about AI or maybe you're wondering how can you make AI work for you in your business so you can spend more time doing what you want to do. Then you need to check out Netsuite by Oracle. This is the number one AI cloud, erp. It's your one source of truth for all of your metrics, all of your numbers in your business so you can spend time doing what you want to do, what you love to do, what is best for your business and for your family. They make it all really easy. And they have this free guide called Demystifying AI that is totally free to you when you use my link. Netsuite.com ally. That's netsuite.com ally.

What was it like learning that Jesus and the Father and the Holy Spirit are all one and that Jesus is God who died for you on the cross? Like, I imagine some of those things. You're like, what are you talking about?

[A]

It actually, when they explained it to me and we read it in the Bible, I was like, that makes so much sense. You know, it was like things just aligned for me because I grew up believing that they were three separate beings, but not really explained why, you know.

And it almost. It took the.

Believing before that Jesus Christ was just a man.

It was so clear being explained that he is God. How Victor twisted it to make. Almost make it into himself that he was Christ. Yeah. Wow.

[B]

What happened to Victor?

[A]

Me and one of the. The youngest maidens, Jess and I, we went to the police. What year did you go to? The 2012. We went to the police.

[B]

This is 10 years before you became a Christian.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, we went to the police. And it was two years of just telling our story over and over again. It felt like nobody was believing us. January of 2014, we got an email from Tom Lydon at Fox News. He asked if we'd like his help, and we said yes because the statute of limitations was going to run out. So the media got involved, and things kind of blew up. I was on Dr. Phil and John Walsh, and from John Walsh's airing, Victor came on the U.S. marshals top 10 most wanted list.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And they ended up finding him in Brazil and extraditing him back. And we had the hearing in 2016, and he was sentenced to 30 years in jail. Wow. Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

And your parents, what are. What are they doing now?

[A]

My. They're no longer married. My mom actually passed away last July. I did talk to them. My mother supported Victor throughout the whole trial. Her and two of my sisters wrote letters to the judge on behalf of him, saying terrible things about me. Yeah, I'm sure that was really hard. Yeah.

But I did talk to both of them in 2022. My mom and dad on a conference call. And. Oh, man, I told. This was blatantly honest. I said, I used to wish you guys were dead. I used to wish that you were in jail. I have scars on my wrists from cutting, you know, from trying to deal with the pain. And I said, but as. As a mother now, I want you guys to know that I'm doing really well, and I Wish you both well in your life, and we'll never have a relationship. You will never know my daughter, but I wish you guys the best, and I want you to be doing well. And I wasn't able to forgive them at that point, but I was a few months ago. I'm still in therapy. Have a wonderful Christian counselor. And, um, we talked about forgiveness. And in a way, it's taking them off my hook and putting them on God's hook. And I. I felt this for a long time, this sense that I needed to be the one to get justice. You know, I needed to hold people accountable. But really, truly believing that God has got it all, you know, we all have to face him in that day. And I'm able to forgive my parents and those who harmed me. And it was honestly such a burden lifted, which I never thought it would be. I was like, I don't need to forgive them. You know, like, I'm doing fine. But being able to truly forgive them and knowing, like, just putting it in God's hand was so freeing. Yeah.

[B]

Wow. What about your siblings?

[A]

My siblings, I have contact here and there with one of them, but not really with the rest. I mean, my youngest. The youngest, my brother, he was five when I left home, so I don't even really know him. And the others, I think they're doing well. You know, they all get together. It's been tough for me because they supported my parents, and so it was hard for me to, you know, trust them, but I love them and.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And hope they're all doing well. Yeah.

[B]

Well, I fully pray and believe that God is going to use you to bring them to Christ and that y' all will have that reconciliation and relationship one day. I'm hoping for that. Anyway. Can you give a message to people who have been hurt by people in the church who claim to be messengers of God? It may not have been a cult. They could have been a Baptist church, but someone who claimed that they were doing this on behalf of God and they were abused or they were betrayed in some way, and they're feeling like I could never. I could never believe in God. I could never be a Christian because of what happened to me. What would you say to them?

[A]

I would say, what I've had to do is not put my faith in man. I've had to put my faith in the Lord. Because it wasn't God who hurt me. It was a man who hurt me. And we are all. We live in a cursed world. None of us are perfect. But that has really helped Me be able to step back into a church and kind of have discernment, you know, on where I'm placing my trust and my faith is that it is ultimately in God. Not that we can't have people in our lives, you know, that we trust and we hopefully get sound advice from. But, yeah, I would say putting your trust and faith in the Lord, knowing he is good, he is perfect, not in man. Because we ultimately will be let down. We will be hurt. You know, I'm sure I'm going to continue to get hurt throughout my life.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I have the Lord, so. Yeah.

[B]

What is the journey like to forgiving Victoria?

[A]

I would say that's still a work in progress. I.

Had a session with my therapist a couple months ago talking about I'd had a panic attack in Kroger because I saw somebody that resembled Victor. Yeah. First time that has ever happened. And I just really had to focus on grounding myself. My daughter was with me, and I didn't want to, you know, scare her. And I talked to my therapist. I said, what if Victor does repent and I see him in heaven? You know, like. And it. Yeah, it's something that I'm still working through. I think one thing that's helped is knowing hell. Anyone who goes to hell, like, how awful it must be to go there. And that scares me, you know, like, thinking of people there. I used to wish my mom was there. And, gosh, I hope to God she repented. You know.

I think truly believing we are all made in the image of God, you know, even Victor, even somebody who hurt me so badly. He is made in the image of God. So I do pray for his salvation, you know, But I think truly forgiving him in my heart, it's something I'm still working through. Gosh.

[B]

Yeah. Well, I love what you said about. It's really about putting someone off of your hook and onto God's hook, like. Because when I think about that, I don't want to think about forgiving someone like that. I just don't. I'm going to be honest, like, if that happened to me or if that happened to my kids, like, I'm not really interested in that, but I am interested in God's justice, you know, and of course, yes, God's grace, if someone repents and if God chooses that. But I love the idea of you trusting God's justice. That that is the release. It's not feeling happy thoughts about them. It's not being like, gosh, I just hope he's doing great, actually. Like, we're thankful that he is being punished. That is earthly justice. That's why governments were instituted to do exactly that. But, like, releasing that, it seems like that's kind of how you've defined forgiveness. And I think it's a good one. And I just. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry that that happen. And I'm so thankful that God has given you the courage to share your story, because you don't have to be crying on this couch and reliving this pain. But it's amazing what God does that. He is the God of redemption, and he brings beauty out of the ashes. And Satan would have loved to silence you and to keep you ashamed and scared. Just say, okay, you have your nice little story, but just. Just keep it over there so people don't criticize you. But God has really given you boldness, and I'm just very grateful for that.

[A]

Oh, thank you.

[B]

Me too.

[A]

I. I keep thinking, you know, I may not know until that day the fullness.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Of why it all happened, but if I didn't use it now to bring glory to God, to hopefully save for him, to save one person, what am I doing with my life? You know? So I am just praying that people hear this. And they hear.

[B]

Yeah.

How can people support you and your story?

[A]

Gosh. Definitely pray for me. I.

Oh, this is. I don't even. I don't know. I mean, I would love to write a book someday.

[B]

Prayer is good.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And share this testimony. Share this story so that more people hear what God can do.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And also, it's just good warning signs, too, because the story that you told him, like. Yeah, that red flag. I've talked to a lot of people who have left cults, and I'm like, it's the same story. Like, not the same story, but the same thing that the cult leader does and says every single time. What I think is interesting is that clearly from a young age, God put something in you that was like, it's not quite right. Even though sometimes you convince yourself it was. It was like he was working a long time ago, sowing those seeds of doubt against the entire, you know, cultish mechanism there. And, you know, you tried to resist that for a long time, but he had already kind of captured you and was working on you from an early age.

[A]

He was.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, praise God. Thank you so much for sharing your story, Lindsay. And we will be praying for you. Thank you. And just praying that God uses. Continues to use your life and your story for his glory. So thank you so much.

[A]

Oh, thank you for having me on.