Podcast Summary:

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey
Episode 1281 | "Satanic or Sanctified? Skillet Gets Real About Christmas Controversy"
Guest: John Cooper (Skillet)
Air Date: December 19, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode dives into the cultural and theological controversy surrounding Skillet’s heavy rock rendition of "O Come, O Come, Emmanuel." Allie Beth Stuckey welcomes John Cooper, Skillet’s frontman, for a candid, lively conversation unpacking the accusations of the song being "demonic," his personal and family background with legalism in the church, his testimony of faith, and the band’s unwavering approach to sharing the Gospel—even amid criticism. The pair touch on spiritual legacy, the challenges within Christian music, and offer encouragement for faithful engagement in every vocation.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Stage: The Christmas Song Controversy

• [00:01–04:59]
  • Allie introduces the controversy: Some accused Skillet’s "O Come, O Come, Emmanuel" of being "demonic" because of its heavy rock style.
  • John relays how fan requests led the band to release their first Christmas song—despite initial doubts about how his voice would suit Christmas music.
  • The reaction: overwhelmingly positive, but a vocal minority on social media accused the song of evil influences.
    • John: "People are gonna be like, ‘I’m not listening anymore. She hates marshmallows.’" [01:34] (Joking in the intro banter)
    • Allie: "There was a small fraction of people who wanted to sew some controversy." [03:54]

2. John’s Background: Legalism, Music, and Faith

• [06:05–13:00]
  • John grew up Southern Baptist, in a "very, very rule-based" church heavily influenced by Bill Gothard’s teachings about music being inherently evil.
    • John: "Rock and roll during that time...was seen as maybe the worst thing the devil ever did on the planet ever." [06:32]
  • His mother, a piano and voice teacher, believed Christian rock was even more dangerous—“wolves in sheep’s clothing.” [09:17]
  • Anecdotes reveal the depth of legalism:
    • Banned from bringing home Christian rock cassette tapes.
    • Dress codes extended to hair and clothing color (black was "the devil’s color").
    • John’s pushback even as a child: "You taught me that the devil doesn’t create anything, he distorts things. So how can it be that he created an evil drumbeat?" [14:34]
  • Allie jokes: "God is a God of order, not disorder. That’s why I must not like jazz." [10:07]

3. Processing Criticism: Empathy, Perspective, and Grace

• [13:01–18:43]
  • John isn’t rattled by today’s critiques—he understands where they’re coming from, having lived with similar thinking.
    • John: "I know these people. I love these people. They think they're saving people from Satan. All I can do is kind of laugh it off, really." [12:23]
  • Warns against deconstructing basic biblical faith because of bad church experiences:
    • "Don’t deconstruct from Christ…get rid of that stuff [humanly added rules], but don’t deconstruct from Christ, you know?” [14:34]
  • Finds joy and freedom in the gospel, advocating for a faith expressing the joy of Christ, not mere rule-keeping.

4. Testimony & Calling: Family, Loss, and God’s Direction

• [18:43–24:48]
  • John’s mother battled cancer for years, passing when he was 15—amidst persistent family conflict over music and legalistic standards.
    • "Music has helped me so much…I’d love to do that for some other kid going through depression, suicidal thoughts, a death, getting bullied…” [21:58]
  • At 18, John feels God’s call to music, despite feeling "cursed" by elders’ prophecies on his mother’s deathbed that he’d lead people to hell with Christian music.
  • He chose obedience to God’s direct calling over well-meaning but misguided family warnings.

5. Skillet’s Formation & Gospel-Focused Career

• [26:53–32:14]
  • Formation: John met his wife Korey through church connections—opposites in style and background but united in faith and purpose.
  • Early on, John received mentorship from a reformed-charismatic pastor who grounded him in theology and discipleship.
  • Skillet’s approach: always overt in sharing Jesus, refusing to dilute the gospel in crossover contexts.
    • John: "If we’re gonna cross over, we are going to never be ashamed of the gospel…we made it a point." [36:03]
• Notable Story:
  • "I only want to say that so people know Jacoby is his name. Good friend of mine…Jacoby did get born again…there is a lot of rock stars…getting truly born again over the last year…" [35:50]

6. Impact Stories: Seeds of Faith and Gospel Encounters

• [37:18–44:02]
  • John shares profound testimonies of lives changed in unexpected ways:
    • NFL commercial featuring Skillet’s "Hero" leads an adult film industry couple to discover Christ. [39:44–42:14]
      • John: "All because of a TV commercial and an interview…Jesus is my hero. He died for me when I hated him…That one little seed.” [41:18]
    • Even subtle witness—a brief Scripture quote at a metal festival—can be a powerful tool.
  • Allie: "The word of God doesn't return void. It's going to accomplish exactly what God sends it out for.” [42:14]

7. Encouragement for Faithful Living

• [44:02–47:55]
  • The show shifts to Christian integrity in all industries.
    • Allie: "We just have to be comfortable to count the cost and say, 'I'm gonna do what God has called me to anyway…'" [44:57]
    • John: "Never compromise those things. What the world has to offer…it’s worth nothing in the end. You count it all. Poo. That’s what Paul says." [47:21]

8. Christian Music, Deconstruction, and Staying the Course

• [49:26–56:54]
  • Many musicians fall away due to lack of church involvement and accountability; the allure of fame and emotionalism can chip away at foundational faith.
    • John: "A lot of Christian musicians aren’t a part of a church. And I always tell them, like, you’re not going to last long." [53:51]
    • The church—true Christian community—is vital for long-term faithfulness.
  • Music’s spiritual power is highlighted: throughout cultures, music is nearly always tied to worship—either of God or false gods.

9. The “O Come, O Come, Emmanuel” Backstory

• [58:08–62:55]
  • John outlines the creative and spiritual intent:
    • The heavy, angsty style represents the world’s brokenness and the longing for Christ’s coming.
      • John: "The world is not as we want it to be and we are longing for that day when every tear is wiped away...That is why this song gets really heavy…" [61:18]
    • A moving real-life connection: John learns that Charlie Kirk was shot the same day they recorded the song’s heaviest section, underscoring the world’s suffering and the need for Advent hope.
      • "I don’t think I’ll ever be able to watch the video or hear the song without remembering...It was just powerful to me. That’s what the song’s about…” [61:56]
    • Testimony of a "deconstructed" former worship leader whose emotional response to the music hinted at the enduring, evangelistic power of honest, raw Christian art. [58:45–60:59]

10. Final Encouragements and Closing Thoughts

• [62:55–63:45]
  • Allie: "God truly is working all things together for the good of those who love him, using all of our different skills and passions…in these unseen and unsung moments of obedience that all believers are called to.” [62:55]
  • John thanks listeners and Allie, while reinforcing a hope-filled vision of Christian perseverance and faithfulness in public life.

Notable Quotes

• "Rock and roll...was seen as maybe the worst thing the devil ever did on the planet ever."
  — John Cooper [06:32]

• "Don’t deconstruct from Christ…just get rid of some of the things that people probably good-heartedly added onto the faith that they really shouldn’t have."
  — John Cooper [14:34]

• "If we’re gonna cross over, we are going to never be ashamed of the gospel."
  — John Cooper [36:03]

• "All because of a TV commercial and an interview…and Jesus is my hero. He died for me when I hated him…That one little seed."
  — John Cooper [41:18]

• "Never compromise those things. What the world has to offer, even if it’s a ginormous amount out, it’s worth nothing in the end. You count it all. Poo. That’s what Paul says."
  — John Cooper [47:55]

• "If anything could bring me back to the faith I used to have, it would be something like this."
  — [Paraphrased Former Worship Leader’s reaction to Skillet’s song] [60:40]

• "We are longing for that day when every tear is wiped away…that is why this song gets really heavy."
  — John Cooper [61:18]

Timestamps for Major Segments

| Time | Segment | |-------------|---------------------------------------------------------| | 00:01–04:59 | Introduction; Christmas song controversy | | 06:05–13:00 | John’s upbringing, legalism, and early music battles | | 14:34–18:43 | Faith, “deconstruction,” and personal testimony | | 18:43–24:48 | Loss of mother, sense of calling, overcoming family fears| | 26:53–32:14 | Skillet’s formation, gospel focus, meeting Korey | | 34:06–36:03 | Touring, gospel encounters, rock stars saved | | 37:18–44:02 | Testimonies: Music’s unexpected impact | | 44:02–47:55 | Christian conduct, integrity, blessing vs. prosperity | | 49:26–56:54 | Christian artists deconstructing, importance of church | | 58:08–62:55 | Story and theology of "O Come, O Come, Emmanuel" | | 62:55–63:45 | Final encouragements and closing |

Tone and Style

The episode is informal, warm, and honest with humor and self-awareness. Both Allie and John strike a balance between seriousness and levity, addressing difficult issues without bitterness. The conversation is theologically anchored while still accessible to a broad Christian audience.

Key Takeaways

• Criticism of Christian rock often springs from a tradition of legalism, which John understands from personal experience.
• Skillet’s approach to music is intentionally gospel-centered, committed to bold proclamation while remaining artistically authentic.
• God’s work is often unseen and untraceable in the moment—our faithfulness can have ripple effects far beyond what we see.
• Christian walk demands integrity, and compromise—even with good intentions or cultural pressure—eventually robs us of lasting, spiritual riches.
• The longing expressed in "O Come, O Come, Emmanuel" is both historical (Israel's Advent expectations) and present-day (the suffering and brokenness that make us cry, "Come Lord Jesus").
• Community, church accountability, and deep discipleship are essential for longevity in any calling, especially in contexts exposed to fame, money, or isolation.

Recommended for listeners interested in:

• Faith and culture intersections
• Testimonies of overcoming legalism
• Evangelism in mainstream contexts
• Navigating criticism with grace
• Christian music history and influence