C (4:52)

The interview that you did, where the people were sitting around, oh, what's that called?

B (4:58)

Jubilee. Yes.

C (5:00)

Like you were on fire. But like was that.

B (5:03)

It was pressure, intense, super intense. And that was the day before Charlie's memorial.

C (5:08)

Right.

B (5:09)

And that was like the craziest weekend, travel wise and stuff. And I was so tired and I was like, this is not how I want to feel. I was tired, I was sad. It was only, like, 10 days maybe after Charlie was murdered. And. And we really thought about canceling because I was like, I don't want to be surrounded by a bunch of liberals right now. That's, like, the last thing that I want to do. But that was one of the last conversations that Charlie and I had over text about. About Jubilee, because he had done Jubilee, and he crushed it, obviously. And he had all this advice for me and sent me all this text. He was like, I'm praying about this for you. And I just knew, like, if he had been there, he would have been like, you cannot cancel this. Are you kidding me? And honestly, like, when I walked in, it's very tense. Some of it is scripted. Like, they're told not to smile at me when I walk in the room. But as soon as I sat down and the first person came up, he reached out his hand, he said, I'm so sorry about your friend Charlie. And that really did, like. I wish I could take all the credit. It's all me. But really, like, the Holy Spirit was there. That was evident. I think even the producers felt that, because they were like, this is different. But I honestly think Charlie's death actually softened the whole thing.

C (6:21)

Oh, interesting.

B (6:22)

Maybe they didn't want to upset me or something, but everyone was pretty nice at least there in person.

C (6:27)

Yeah.

B (6:28)

Now after. On social media, they had their things to say, but.

C (6:32)

Yeah, but I mean, talk about, like, walking into the lion's den. Like, it just. I was like, that is just some bravery there. And.

B (6:39)

Yeah, well, it's.

C (6:40)

And to be that. But you're. I mean, to. There's only a few that could be as well equipped to step in and field those questions and slash attacks where they're. It's all gotcha stuff. Like the. Like.

B (6:53)

Yeah.

C (6:53)

I just was like, wow.

B (6:55)

But, you know, you'd be. If you were in that situation, too, you would be surprised at, like, how much you've heard everything that they're saying, because as conservatives, it's like, we see this stuff on Tick Tock and everything all day.

C (7:06)

Yeah.

B (7:06)

They've never heard my position, but I'm like, I've heard this. I've heard this, like, 10 times. So.

C (7:11)

And it is like the Lord giving us the words to speak and Scripture returning to us, and, like, so it's.

B (7:17)

Just, oh, the Holy Spirit was totally there.

C (7:20)

Well, it was fun. We're thankful for what you do.

B (7:23)

Thank you. You reached out to me a few months ago, and you sent me an audio file of a song that you wrote after Charlie Was murdered. Be close and thankfully, by the grace of God, that kind of made it through the grapevine to the people closest to Charlie. And you even got to play that at the CBS Town hall. I did before Erica took the stage. Let's play a clip of that.

C (7:49)

Jesus, be close to the brokenhearted Save those who are crushed in spirit we know that you've always been our only hope Be near when our minds are flooded with fear Be the hand that's wiping our tears and the voice that whispers weary so be still and know that I'll always be close.

B (8:30)

Okay, tell me about writing that song. What inspired you? How'd the lyrics come to you?

C (8:37)

Well, like. Like millions of people around the country and the world, we were. Our family. The West House, it was heavy. Like, we were grieving with what we witnessed with Charlie Kirk being assassinated with his murder. Like, our family was just, like, you know, freaking out. And as a parent, you're trying to, like, you know, walk through that with your kids and just, like, the fear and the anger and all the emotions, and then also, just like, you know, you're wrestling with your faith of, like, lord, where are you? You know, I think there's. It feels like so many moments in my life right now where I'm seeing things take place in our world and I'm asking that question. But then I can turn to Scripture and be reminded of the promise of God's proximity, the closeness of God, you know, the Lord is close to the brokenhearted he saves those who are crushed in spirit and so, to be honest, that. That whole day of watching what was happening on the news, I was so angry, and I. And my. I wanted to go to social media and just, like, you know, Angry. Yeah. Enter into that. And the next morning, I just. I couldn't sleep. And I woke up early that morning not to, like, sound like I'm romanticizing or anything. I just woke up singing, jesus, be close to the brokenhearted Save those who are crushed in spirit and so I did what I do when I don't know what else to do, which was go to my studio, pick up my guitar, and I just started writing. The first line says, I can't unsee what I've just seen.

B (10:03)

And.

C (10:03)

And of course, that was inspired by, you know, what took over social media, like, and I wished I could have protected my kids from seeing what we saw. You know what I mean? And just going like, lord, where are you? Okay, I gotta remember, even though I'm wondering where he is, I have to believe in the promises of Scripture. And I sent that to you because you've been such an incredible voice of truth in the midst of this chaotic world. And you've been bold and courageous. And I felt a stirring in my life in the last couple years, even though I've spent half of my life singing about Jesus, like I feel like I'm feeling a stirring like never before. To be bold and realize that standing up for Jesus and for truth is going to come at a cost sometimes. So what does that look like? So I just wanted to share that song with you. And then you shared it with, I think, Andrew and Andrew.

B (10:50)

Yeah, well, just that first line, I mean, it just punched me right in the gut because you sent it to me in that crazy weekend that we were just talking about. Everything was happening. I think it was maybe even right before the memorial. And that first line, everyone that watched the same thing could relate to that. And in that moment, we all knew, yeah, that's what you're talking about. And for a lot of us, like, it just ends right there. I can't unsee what I just saw. And I don't know what to do with that.

C (11:17)

Right.

B (11:18)

And the wrestling that you just described is very relatable that you felt angry. And you know, scripture tells us, don't let the sun go down on your anger. In your anger, don't sin. And so you did something with that anger and you allowed the Lord to redeem it.

C (11:33)

Well, I feel like one of my jobs as a songwriter is to look at seemingly hopeless situations and dare to believe that there can still be some hope extracted from that. And then there's something about music. I've seen God work through three minute songs, one three minute song at a time. I've talked with your mom about songwriting. She knows that. But like, the, the hope that can be conveyed through a three minute song, it's not about the song itself. It's about God at work in it. And I've gotten to see that over and over again. So I do feel like that's like one of my jobs in life. One of my callings is to, like, find the hope in hopeless situations and sing about it and try to tell anybody who will listen that there is still hope, that God is still real, that he's still on the throne, and that even in these ugly situations in our world, we have a beautiful God who is still at work and he can redeem it all. You know, the one of the lines in the song says, another light put out by dark. And like, that's how I felt like, of going like Charlie. What a bright light. Like speaking truth and doing it in a respectful way and showing us what healthy discourse can look like when you're talking to people who don't look like you or don't agree with you. But yet he was giving them a platform. And evil hates what Charlie was about and tried to take out his light. And what happened? The light just got brighter.

B (13:01)

Quick pause for the first sponsor for the day and that is Adele Natural Cosmetics. I love Adele. I use their essential cleanser every day. It's an oil based cleanser. The consistency is a little bit like olive oil, so it takes a little bit to get used to. It's not like the sudsy soap that you maybe usually use to wash your face, but it's much better for you. It's effective. It takes off your makeup, it makes your face really clean. But instead of taking off that first layer of your skin, it actually restores that skin barrier and leaves you feeling very protected and moisturized. I love that it's all natural ingredients and so you're not going to find any endocrine disruptors, fake fragrances or anything like that. That's true of every single one of their products from their essential moisturizing spray, which I also use all of their cosmetics, their foundation, their blush, eyeshadow, it's all completely natural. Arlene and her family are unapologetically pro life. They're Christian, they put that on all of their packaging. They wear that on their sleeve. That's what I love about them. This is an awesome family owned company. Go to Adele Natural Cosmetics.com use code ALLY. You'll get 25% off your first time purchase Adele Natural Cosmetics.com code ALLY. Okay, you also. Another opportunity that you got was to sing at the White House recently for their Christmas celebration. Okay, tell me about like getting that phone call or hearing, hey, you're going to go to the White House and sing about Jesus.

C (14:28)

Well, so have you been to the White House?

B (14:30)

I haven't.

C (14:31)

Are you kidding?

B (14:32)

You went to the White House before me.

C (14:34)

Oh my gosh, that's wrong. First of all.

B (14:36)

No, no, I'm excited for you. No, I'm, I'm happy for you.

C (14:39)

I was asked to host the annual White House Christmas tree lighting. But I have to tell you a funny story though.

B (14:45)

Okay, tell me.

C (14:45)

So I jumped at the chance, of course. But they had a reception that afternoon at the White House, the Christmas tree lighting. And we were going to take a picture with the president and the first lady. So I brought my Wife and my daughters. And we go through all the Secret Service, we're all dressed up. We go into the White House. There's an orchestra playing. They. They had this incredible buffet of the best looking food I've ever seen. Right. And so I. A little bit about me, like, when I see a buffet, I'm like, I'm going to especially. This White House food's got to be the best, right?

B (15:17)

Yes.

C (15:17)

So they have big bowls of shrimp cocktail. This is not why you asked this question, but I have to tell you.

B (15:22)

I want to hear all the details, please.

C (15:24)

I'm like, I'm going to eat this buffet, this amazing White House food. But we had a picture with the President. I thought, I'm going to show restraint. I'm going to skip the buffet until after we take a picture because I don't want to spill anything.

B (15:35)

Cocktail, right? Can't camouflage that.

C (15:37)

So we go in, we take the picture, and we get to spend a few moments with the President and the first lady, which was incredible. And then right after I go, it's buffet time. But before I realized it, Secret Service handed me my coat and I was standing outside the White House looking in there like, you got to go get hair and makeup on for the White House. And all I could think about for two days after was I never got the shrimp cocktail. So there's a lesson in that, that life is short. And when you get a chance to eat the White House shrimp cocktail, just do it.

B (16:06)

You just gotta do it. Even if you spill a little bit, it's okay. Okay, so tell me what it was like to meet the President. What was that experience like? And then I'll ask you about actually doing the performance.

C (16:17)

Well, first of all, it was incredible.

B (16:19)

Yeah.

C (16:19)

He and the first lady were so kind. I don't know how they fit everything. They fit into the. It's. It's a mystery to me because they were saying hello to all of the artists that were performing and probably 200 people that day. And then so we got to spend a few moments talking. And you know, you in those moments, you're like, what am I going to say? Right? And the one thing I could think to say was just to say, hey, we pray. I want you. I didn't say hey, But I said, Mr. President, I want you to know that the west family prays for you and we continue to lift you and your leadership up. And so that was, if you had one minute, that's what I wanted to say. And it was just an incredible honor. And then that evening we're, you know, I get to host the Christmas tree lighting. And they told me. They said, okay, read what's on the teleprompter. And it was me who was going to be introducing the President and the first lady on stage. And then they said, after that, you're going to go stand next to him. I was like, what? And I'm behind that bulletproof glass. And we did the countdown and said, let's light this big, beautiful tree. But it was just an incredible experience. And the coolest part was that there were no rules about what you could speak about or, you know, in terms of, like, oh, let's make this more of a holiday celebration. No, this was, like, the message of Christmas and the greatest gift and the greatest story ever told about the birth of Jesus. It rang out loud and clear that night. And, in fact, they asked me to sing the song that I wrote for Charlie that night, which wasn't even a Christmas song. So it was a really. It was just a real honor. I'll tell you, I was surprised, Ali Beth, and you probably wouldn't be surprised by this, but I posted, you know, a picture of my family with the President and the first lady, and, like, boy, I lost so many followers on social media. Just about to ask about that, upset that I would even accept that invitation. And. Yeah, and to that, I just, you know, I shake my head and I go, it was an honor to be there. And it was just an incredible thing to ring in the Christmas season in our nation's capital, you know?

B (18:15)

Yeah. You know, I was about to ask about that with speaking out after Charlie and then performing at the White House. I see both of those things as nonpartisan, because in both of those circumstances, you just did what you always do, which is share the gospel through song. And. And you described that so beautifully, bringing people hope in a really dark place through the gift that God has given you, some of the pushback that you got. What. What was it like? What was the criticism, and what was your response to that?

C (18:42)

Well, much of it is just a hatred for one man. Right? Like, there's a. There's a. That's a very real thing that they can't see past their hatred for our current president. So that, like, if you. There's just no objectivity. And so you see that for what it is. And it's like, to. That I would say, like, I would have accepted the invitation to visit the White House regardless who was in office. And to be honest, for me as a singer, and I've never felt like that I'm just a singer. Like, I'm. I feel like I have a calling to be a light in a dark world and share the message of the hope of Jesus wherever I get the opportunity. I want to go into the darkness and be a bright light wherever I go. And so I accept those opportunities and I want to go and speak truth and speak hope. And, you know, not long after that, I was invited back to the Pentagon to do a Christmas concert with Secretary. With Secretary of War Pete Hedges.

B (19:41)

Yes, yes.

C (19:41)

And. And I gladly accepted that invitation because how incredible is that? And again, more hatred, more anger. They're upset that I would support war and violence and because they don't like the name change of the Department of War.

B (19:59)

Right.

C (19:59)

And not understanding that that historically was what it was called. So, yeah, I think it's just a lot of it. It's just anger and hatred towards one man and one party. And to that I just have been like, you know what? I. I support our president and I am praying for our leadership. And I'm going to continue to sing about Jesus everywhere I go. And I. I've learned that there's going to come criticism, but I do think even in Christian music, it's like this almost this fear of, like, speaking up for what is right and good and true because you're going to get criticized or you're going to lose followers or they're a lot of. It's like, stay out of politics. Just sing your songs. It's like, I don't know that that's what I'm called to do either. Like, I want to speak out about what I believe is truth. And I want to be a bright light in a dark world. I'm not perfect. I'm far from it, but there is that. You sense, like, I'll have a wrestling match sometimes because, like, well, if I post this, I'm going to get hammered. I'm going to lose followers. And it's like, you know what? I got a song called Unashamed that I'm singing every single night. And it's my personal anthem of going, I'm not going to be afraid because standing up for Jesus. The Bible never said it wasn't going to come at a cost, so so be it.

B (21:17)

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C (22:37)

That's right.

B (22:37)

You wrote that really sweet, light hearted song about raising daughters to understand modesty and just dignity of the self that God calls us to. And you had a bunch of people I don't even know calling you a fundamentalist trying to control your daughters. All of that stuff, occult, like it was, which, which was crazy. And we talked about it at the time. That was how many years ago? Four or five maybe.

C (22:58)

Yeah, I mean, I've tried to block it out of my memory, but it's like ptsd. Yeah, but you came on my podcast and. Yes, and you were so helpful in that because. And to be able to like turn to voices like yours that like you, you're unafraid. And I need examples of that. You know, we all do as followers of Christ. Like, we need to see people who are showing us what it looks like to want to educate ourselves too. Right. It's one thing to be loud and bold, but if you're stupid, it's not good either. That's not a good representation of the gospel either. So to educate myself and just even having a desire to like, better understand everything that's going on. Yeah, but yeah, that was a few years ago. Just here's a dad making up a goofy song, trying to convince his daughters, you know, but it was the message, the heart of the song was, you are who God says you are. You don't have to flaunt yourself to Win the approval of a guy.

B (23:55)

Right.

C (23:55)

And who would have thought that was a controversial message? And, you know, people came out of the woodwork to attack me and just talk about, you know, how they thought I was a man trying to tell women what to do with their bodies, which is like, as a father of daughters who I, you know, I love my daughters so much. I just want to always remind them that they're made in the image of God and that they don't have to dress a certain way to. It was like. It was the craziest. I think there was a line that said, you know, it was something about Cardi B. Yeah. And, you know, people were all up.

B (24:27)

In arms about that because you criticized. Yeah. It's crazy. But it sounds like now, a few years later, you're even more resolved as you stand against the online outrage. What would you say you've learned in the past few years of now seeing the, you know, various waves of people mad at you about different things?

C (24:47)

I feel like I'm still learning so much. I think, you know, what's interesting is when that. When I released it was a song called Modest is Hottest. And it was.

B (24:53)

Yeah.

C (24:54)

You know, I think I just naively didn't expect any pushback from that. But then my response to it was I freaked out. And I was like. And I took the song down.

B (25:05)

Yeah.

C (25:06)

And then I, like, I realized that then when I took the song down, Christians got mad at me because they thought I was being a coward. Now, my decision to take that song down was because people started coming after my then young children. And it was. I had reasons for doing that, but I think looking back on that now, like, it was like 48 hours and the world moved on to the next Outrage. That's what I started to realize was like, okay, this is like. It feels so coordinated. And so I've just kind of learned, like, this too shall pass.

B (25:39)

Yeah.

C (25:40)

And that I'm going to continue to stand up for what is right. But this is not the first. I mean, I wrote a song for a movie that exposed Planned Parenthood. I wrote a song called Unplanned. And I mean, that was like my first brush with, like. And I realized when they gave me the script to that movie and said, would you write a song about this? First of all, I was like, absolutely. I'm gonna write about that because I believe in the sanctity of life, and I believe that every life matters. But I also knew that there's a whole lot of people who vehemently will come at Me. And so I think I'm learning. I think maybe you've experienced this. You can tell me your experience, too, of, like, the more brushes you have with opposition and people coming at you, or haters, as my kids would say. I don't know. I think it builds a little bit of a tougher skin while also wanting to have a heart of compassion for people, too.

B (26:31)

Totally. Yeah. I think the more you experience it, the more you realize that it's going to be okay. That lesson that you learned is so important to highlight that people move on. They're moving on to the next thing in the moment. It feels like, oh, my gosh, this is going to last forever and everyone's going to be mad at me, and you start feeling that tug inside. And I'm not saying you should never listen to criticism and. Or should never ask yourself, oh, are they right? And should I kind of reassess my position? That may be a healthy thing to do.

C (27:01)

Yes.

B (27:02)

When the person is wise and biblical and coming from that place, it might be good to assess critiques, but when it's people who hate you who hate Christianity, they're telling you you're wrong. You probably don't really need to reassess. You just need to stand firm. And it is hard. Like, it is hard. I mean, I get a ton of unfair criticism for things. Some of it, of course, is completely fair because none of us is perfect. And it, you know, it never feels good. I think that's part of being human.

C (27:33)

Yeah, it's. It's tough to not let the comments and social media posts get to you, but. But to realize, like, And I think I'm learning, too, of just going, I'm going to continue. I don't want to be above reproach. Like, I always want to be teachable and coachable. But like you said, like, at the end of the day, like, my relationship with the Lord is the driving. My faith is the driving force of my life. Let it guide everything that I do. And I'm not always going to be perfect, but help me, like, somehow be bold in my faith and also in a loving way. Like, I'm not. I'm not going to pick a fight. That's. That's not my mission in life. And my mission is to tell people about Jesus with my music and stand up for what I believe is right. And at the end of the day, I want to hear the Lord say, well done.

B (28:16)

And.

C (28:16)

But I know that it's not going to. I know now that it's not going to come without criticism or opposition. And I can't let social media. If I lose followers, so be it.

B (28:31)

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C (29:48)

Yeah, I think it's been a collective, like, of these experiences that we just talked about. Which is funny because even before sitting down with you, I hadn't really thought much lately about that modest hottest moment or some of these moments where I have kind of faced criticism and most recently just even a post of a picture with my family and the president and the first lady. It's like, I think that song has come out of, like just this series of events over the last few years where I'm like, okay, have I kind of been living. It's like I'm a Christian singer and a lot of my concerts are in churches in front of Christian audiences and things like that. It's. It's almost like I've spent so long in this. In this. Almost like a little bit of a bubble. And I'm like, well, what does it look like for me to, like, become more emboldened in my faith? And people have looked at me like, that's weird. Like, you spent half your life. I'm a preacher's kid. I grew up in church. But I think there's a time in your life where the longer you've been a Christian, you can, like, start to wade into what the Bible warns about lukewarm waters. And I've written a lot of songs about that. And because they're like, my songwriting is a way of, like, jolting me, of waking me up. There was one of my songs that was on the radio years ago, said, I don't want to go through the motions, right? There's another song that said, I'm going all in, like these. These sort of anthems that I needed to be singing because I needed to be hearing them. Another song this is I Want to know. I got no what ifs, right? It's like you can hear that common refrain in a lot of my songs. Like, what does it look like to, like, make sure that I'm running my race with perseverance? Right. And so unashamed, I feel like, is just kind of hitting the nail on the head with what I've gone through in my life and going like, what does it look like to really have a desire for lost people to come to know Jesus? Like, am I. Am I singing a song just because I want to have a successful career, or am I getting on stage tonight in the hopes that literally that heaven will become more crowded as a result? Right. And so I want that. I want my kids to see that in me. And I'll tell you, my oldest daughter, like, she's showing me what it looks like. Like she went and did a six month missions trip, just left college and said, I feel like God's calling me to go do something, and went on this missions trip and. And she's not on stage in an arena, she's not selling merch. She was literally just telling people about Jesus one person at a time.

B (32:10)

Yeah.

C (32:10)

And that, like, that hits me, like, when my kid starts showing me what it looks like to be unashamed of the gospel and just have a desire, like, I'm going to do this because I literally have a heart for somebody who doesn't know Jesus to come to know Jesus. Like, that's what I want my. My why to be. That's what I want my mission to be. And I get off track all the time like everybody else does. But that song Unashamed was like, okay, what happened when Daniel obeyed God? Like, when they told him not to pray, he went up. The Bible says he went upstairs where the windows were open, towards Jerusalem.

B (32:44)

Right.

C (32:44)

In other words, he was like, listen to this.

B (32:46)

Like, he did it even he could have prayed silently.

C (32:49)

Exactly. He did it even more boldly. But I love these stories in Scripture. When someone like that stood up, what happened? The mouth of the lion was shut. Like God showed up in that moment. And so I love those reminders. I need those reminders. And therefore I think that's why God has me write those songs. Because when I'm on stage, a lot of times I'm singing songs like Unashamed, and I'm like, this song's not for the audience as much as it is for me tonight.

B (33:13)

It ministers to you, too. I love this lyric, talking about just staying on track to me, like, when I read this, this is the reminder that I need. I'm not going to sing it for anyone. I don't answer to the crowd. I answer to a king. So the louder they shout, the louder I sing. I mean, that's exactly what you're talking about, remembering every single day, sometimes every single moment, depending on what the day is. Do I answer to this person? Do I answer to the person in my messages? Do I answer to the person on X? Do I answer, even in some cases to your boss? Ultimately, you answer to the authority. That is bigger than all of this.

C (33:50)

That's right.

B (33:51)

And that's really what changes your mentality about criticism, I would think.

C (33:54)

Yeah. An audience of one. And that is. And I think that line was directly inspired by the experiences I've had over the last few years and a desire to give somebody else who's listening the words to express, like, their desire. Because I do feel like in. In the Christian community, it's like, I think people and like, you know, I'm about to do a concert tonight after we talk. And when I sing that song, it's like it. You can feel it strike a chord with the audience. And I feel like Charlie's death, like, stirred something within me. I know it stirred something within so many other people, but, Ben, they don't maybe feel equipped to do that. I think that's one of the reasons why platforms like yours are so important, because you're helping equip people and how to. What. What does boldness look like? And I want to be one of those people that can maybe, you know, when one of the best compliments when somebody comes up to me is I feel like your songs have given me the words I didn't know how to communicate.

B (34:52)

Yeah.

C (34:53)

And hopefully a song like Unashamed is one that equips a kid out here who's at this concert to realize when they walk into Their school Monday morning. They're on a mission to help a mom who's still praying for her prodigal to realize that God has her in that prodigal's life for a reason, and to walk into that with a purpose and a mission, whatever it might be, to be bold in your faith. So that's my hope, is that as the Lord's stirring in me, I'm going to pour that out into the world and hopefully give them an anthem to go. Yep, me too. Let's be unashamed. Let's stand strong, and let's show people what it looks like to stand for Jesus. And let it be an attractive thing where people are like, I want that. You're different. You're both. Everybody else is standing up for something right now. Right. So I feel like, why not me? Why am I not going to stand up for what I believe in?

B (35:46)

Especially in a time where I think a lot of Christians really do feel afraid. Like they watched what happened in St. Paul to that church. You've got these congregants praying, and then you've got these agitators coming in harassing. You've got the little children crying, crying in the church. The old lady who fell and she broke her arm. And some Christians look at that. And it's tempting to say, do I even want to go in person to church, or am I just gonna now watch online because I don't want that to happen to me? Or am I going to be bold about my faith? Because clearly there's a lot of people that hate us more than they hate people of other faiths. We're the target.

C (36:23)

Yeah.

B (36:24)

And it's really, really tempting to say, well, maybe I will just dial it back. I'll still be nice to people and kind of hope maybe they know I'm Christian. But I don't want to say it, and I don't want to show it, and I don't want to gather with the saints because I'm afraid of what's going to happen. And so in a moment like that, hearing someone say, actually, we're still called to be unashamed.

C (36:45)

Yeah.

B (36:46)

Just as Christians were 2,000 years ago. It's a hard message, but, man, it is like, the message that all of us need to be reminded of.

C (36:53)

Well, and if you're on, like, I mean, you see a lot of pastors wanting to be quiet, or maybe like, I was watching, you know, as a preacher's kid myself, and as somebody who's, you know, some. I haven't fallen too far from the tree. Right. Getting up on stage every night. But watching how pastors were handling it and just the fear of approaching the topic of Charlie Kirk's death and yes, for fear of being political versus like right and wrong, you know what I'm saying? Like, but I thought the way that pastor handled Don Lemon, I always want to say Lamont because I think that's what Tucker calls him Don Them.

B (37:31)

I know that's like the way that.

C (37:33)

Pastor handled that moment. I thought he handled that really well. Didn't you?

B (37:37)

Graciously, firmly.

C (37:39)

He said this is a disgrace.

B (37:40)

Yes, totally.

C (37:42)

But I mean those are real. It's. Listen, it's understandable for people to be afraid. And I don't, I mean, I'd like to think I would handle that in the right way. You know what I mean? I, in my, as I watch that video, I could sense like my own anger. Like would I have been a little angrier in that moment? How would I have handled that? But it breaks your heart to see like them walking into people's place of, to a place of worship like that. Yeah, it does feel like it's, you know, push comes to shove in a way where like Christians are really having to consider the fact that hey, me believing in Jesus is literally offending people and it's, and it, it might come at a cost. What does that look like?

B (38:22)

Right.

C (38:23)

And I, I pray that pastors will be, will continue to be bold and that Christians can look to their leadership and go, okay, I see what it looks like to stand strong.

B (38:33)

Yeah. Next sponsor is Patriot Mobile. Everyday Americans make choices that can change our country's future for better or for worse. It's not just our vote every two years or every four years in local and federal elections. It is also how we vote with our dollar on a daily basis. The kind of companies that we support. And Patriot Mobile is a cell phone carrier that actually supports our same values. So they are supporting the first and second amendments, the sanctity of life, faith, family, freedom. They have unlimited data plans, they've got mobile hotspots, international roaming and more. You can switch over to them. They're 100% US based customer service team makes that really easy. You can upgrade your phone or you can keep the same one. Just go to patriotmobile.com alli use code ALI for a free month of service. Patriotmobile.com alicodeali. And obviously, you know, after Charlie was murdered and I don't have the same platform that Charlie did, he was reaching tens of millions of people every day. But you know, we did have to take a moment to be like, okay, I do say some of the same things that Charlie does. Did. And I believe those same things. And ultimately, I believe that he was killed for preaching the gospel and for saying things that were biblically true, not just politically true. And there's been a couple things that I'm reminded of. Like when I look to moments like the one you noticed, that pastor, like, he was so firm, but he was gracious and gentle. And we wonder, would we do the same thing? I remember there's some quote by C.S. lewis, and I'm going to butcher it, so I won't even try to do it verbatim. But he says, when you worry about the future, whether it's a future moment where you're met with some kind of confrontation or your faith is tested, when you worry about the future, you are picturing the future without the presence of God in it, because the presence of God is only ever in the present. He is suspended in the eternal now. And so we might think, oh, what's going to happen in my life if this happens, if I lose that? Or whatever, but we're imagining it without the grace of God. There in that moment, we were talking about that jubilee debate. I was so worried about that. The grace of God met me. You, I'm sure, were worried about a variety of things in your career. The great grace of God met you. That's helped me. And then also this quote by this 19th century missionary, and he led this tribal, remote island to Christ in the 1800s. And he said, I had to realize that I was immortal until God called me home. And I think of that every day, that you are bulletproof until God calls you home.

C (41:17)

That's awesome.

B (41:17)

You are invincible. Until God calls me home. He ordained that day before he created the earth.

C (41:22)

Yeah.

B (41:23)

Therefore, go boldly with confidence. Yeah.

C (41:26)

And it's also, you know, I mean, Jesus encourages us in the gospels. Do not worry about tomorrow. Tomorrow will take care of itself. Each day has enough troubles of its own. So I think about, like, the encouragement not to. Not to worry about the future for the same reasons that you just said. But then also the faith that we find and the confidence that we find when we look over our shoulder.

B (41:46)

Yeah.

C (41:46)

And I think about. It's like, how many times have we said, these are unprecedented times?

B (41:51)

Yeah.

C (41:52)

You know, I mean, I feel like ever since COVID if I heard that term one more time, like. But I was saying, it's like, these are unprecedented times. These have always been unprecedented times. These have always been troubled times. These have always been difficult times. And there's always been darkness in the world. But even in our own lifetimes. Like, I can look over my shoulder when I'm fearful of the future and be reminded of how God has shown up for me time and time again with his protection, with his provision, with his strength, with his courage, with the words when I didn't know what to speak. And so let me. And all of it comes down to again is a total and complete dependence on a source of strength greater than our own.

B (42:31)

Yeah.

C (42:31)

And that at the end of the day is like, even when I'm sitting here talking to you, I'm like, oh, I hope I have the right words to say to Ali Beth today. I hope I. You know what I mean? But it's like, I don't.

B (42:40)

Yeah.

C (42:40)

I need to rely on God when I go on stage tonight. Like, I don't want to rely on my own ability because I'm not going to change anybody's life. But I've seen what God can do.

B (42:49)

Yeah.

C (42:50)

And I want to be nothing but a megaphone that totally sends his word into the world. So I'm thankful for the courage. I'm thankful for this work that he's doing in my life.

B (42:59)

Yeah.

C (43:00)

And I don't know how to do it perfectly. None of us do. But I'm thankful for examples like yours. That's one of the reasons I was so excited to. To chat with you again, because you encouraged our entire family. I was looking at one of your posts today and I was looking at one of your posts on Instagram and I saw liked by Emily west, which is my wife. She's, you know, she's following you too. So we're just grateful for that.

B (43:26)

Last sponsor for the day is Every Life, y'.

C (43:29)

All.

B (43:29)

I love every Life. We use their diapers, their pull ups, their wipes. In our home, they also have the feminine Caroline. All the ingredients, or I should say the materials used are all natural and clean. You can feel really good about using their stuff. They know when life begins that life matters. They also know the definition of a woman that really matters. When you're talking about feminine care, when you're talking about diapers, their pull ups work really well. Like, if you've got a busy toddler, still isn't potty trained yet, but you're kind of in that transition period, especially overnight, you can trust that every life pull ups are going to keep them clean, that you are putting super clean materials on your child. And so I could not recommend this pro life company. More. Go to everylife.com use code ALI10. You'll get 10 off your first order. Everylife.com code ALI10. Okay, I could talk to you for three more hours. You are so easy to talk to, and we have so much to chat about. But you're about to go on stage in just a little bit. I want to get you out on time. But I've got to ask you about your book, which is just released. Or, no, it's about to release in just a few days, and it's called Don't Stop Praying. So tell us about it.

C (44:44)

Yeah, so Don't Stop Praying, like, started as a song, kind of turned into a little bit of a movement to where, like, during the election season, we thought, how cool would it be to go old school? And we started printing these yard signs that just said it was no political message. It just said, don't stop praying. Thousands of people started putting them in their yards all. And people would send me pictures and there would be, you know, just hundreds of them all down the streets in these towns. It's such a cool way for people to share their faith during a highly divisive time. But I. A lot of times I'll write a song and then I'll feel like, you know, there's more to unpack there, and I want to say more. And that was one of those songs. And to be honest with you, I'm somebody who. I started to feel convicted going, I've spent a lot of time talking about Jesus. Have I gotten better at talking about him than actually talking to him? And so this book was an exploration of me just kind of going, God forgive me, I want to go deeper in the most important conversation that I'm going to have today. And no offense to you, but you and I, this isn't our most important conversation. We know that. Right. We have to spend time with Jesus. And so I wound up just kind of diving into that. And I got to tell you, the book opens with the experience. I took my daughter to this camp. It was like a bonding daddy daughter thing. And one of the. They would have all these different activities, but one day, they took the dads and the daughters deep into the woods, and we were going to do this exercise. And they blindfolded the daughters, and then they told the dads, all right, you're going to go and guide your daughter blindfolded through the woods.

B (46:16)

Oh, my goodness.

C (46:17)

I'll never forget this. Alibaba.

B (46:19)

It was.

C (46:20)

They said, now you're going to give your Daughter, three instructions, and repeat them as many times as you can before the walk begins. And the instructions were, I will never leave you. You can ask me anything, and you should only listen for the sound of my voice. And I would make her repeat those back to me. And I said, are we good? She said, I'm good. And then we would. We were instructed to begin our hike through the woods. And it was easy to guide her in the beginning because I could have a hand on her shoulder, and we could walk and talk with each other. And I'd say, okay, there's a rock coming up. Turn to your right. This kind of thing. And then with a silent signal from a camp counselor, they would tell me I had to move my hand, and I could only guide her with the sound of my voice. And it got a little more challenging to navigate the path. Then with another silent signal from the camp counselor, I could no longer speak unless she remembered the instructions that she could ask me anything. So, as you can imagine, we started to get off track in our hike. Well, it's becoming more and more challenging. Counselor comes up as, like, a voice of deception. And my daughter's feeling lost and wondering where I am because she's not hearing my voice and she's not remembering to ask me any questions. Counselor comes up and says, hey, Lulu, it looks like you've gotten separated from your dad in the group. And she said, yeah, I'm not sure where he is. And she said, well. The counselor said, well, how about you follow me, and I'll get you caught up with the group? And of course, as a dad, I'm overanalyzing my entire job as a parent, praying that she says, no, I'm only supposed to follow my dad. And all of a sudden, I heard, okay. She follows the camp counselor. Well, what does the counselor do? Doesn't catch her up with the group. The counselor walks her into a ditch. And she doesn't realize it, but she's blindfolded in a ditch, standing in front of a tree, and I'm standing there helpless, waiting and hoping that she remembers the instructions. After several minutes, I'm just standing there. The counselor comes over to Lulu and says, hey, Lulu, I don't think you're where you're supposed to be, do you? She said, no. The voices had all quieted, the group had gone away, and she said, well, do you remember the instructions that you were given? She's like, I think so. And she thought for a couple minutes, and I'm standing there waiting, and all of a sudden I Hear four words. Dad, are you there? And I stood there in the woods, just crying, and I'm like, yeah, I'm here. And she said, can you help me? I said, yeah. And we got back on track, and we walked back and we had this incredible moment. And that was a moment that shaped the writing of this book. Because I thought about those three instructions and how many times I've forgotten them in my life, that he will never leave me. I can ask him anything. And I should only listen to the sound of his voice. And so that was the heart of this book, of me coming back to those three principles and remembering that I have a God who's always with me, that he loves to hear the sound of his children's voice, and that he is the only source of strength and guidance in my life that I should really trust. Right? Not a social media influencer, not anything else that tries to vie from my time or attention. And so I just felt like I needed this book. And a lot of times, if it's a song or a book, when I'm writing something, I'm like, I need this. I think there's a chance maybe somebody else does, too.

B (49:33)

Oh, I'm so excited. It comes out February 8th. I don't even know it's in it soon. And so maybe by the time people watch this, they can go on Amazon.

C (49:42)

Yeah. Yeah. February 3rd. Yeah.

B (49:44)

Okay.

C (49:44)

Really first week of February.

B (49:46)

Really soon. By the time they listen to this, it will be out. Everyone should get it. Okay. Thank you so much.

C (49:51)

It's an honor.

B (49:52)

Thank you so much. Okay, give us just a last bit of encouragement. There's someone out there. And they're like, okay, all of this sounds good, but I'm really down and out. I don't even know if I can hold on to my faith right now. You have 30 seconds to try to pull that person out of the ditch.

C (50:06)

Can I look at this camera?

B (50:08)

Go for it.

C (50:08)

I know some people are just listening, too, but, hey, I would just want to encourage you that God made you. You were his idea. He knows you and he has plans for you. And the Bible says that you will seek him and find him when you seek him with all of your heart. And another powerful promise in James says that if you draw near to him or if you come close to him, he will come close to you. Not he might, or he might squeeze you into his busy schedule. He leans into you because he loves you that much. He'll give you the strength you need to face whatever is going on in your life. The things that are bigger than you. They are. But they're never bigger than the God who's holding on to you. He's going to give you the strength and the courage to stand up for what is right and good and true. And you can be a bright light in a dark world, just like Charlie was.

B (50:56)

Amen. Matthew west, thank you so much.

C (50:59)

Thank you.

B (51:12)

I. Got to meet Matthew west just a few years ago. And over the years, I have been so grateful for his boldness and for his courage and for his clarity. In a culture that is very often chaotic and. And confused. He ministers to us through Psalms. Such incredible gift. The ambassador of his word and light to darkness. Thank you so much for allowing me to do this. Interact without. It.