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Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey
Ep 1327 | She Stood Up for Women’s Soccer. Her Team Called Her Racist | Elizabeth Eddy
00:52:27
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- [00:01]
A
Former professional soccer player Elizabeth Eddy caught so much backlash last year when she released an op ed in the New York Post urging the National Women's Soccer League to define what a woman is to protect women's sports. Her friends and teammates publicly called her a racist and accused her of bigotry, but she did not back down. And here she is today to tell us her story and where her courage and clarity comes from. You are going to love this testimony and be inspired by it so much. It's brought to you by our friends at Good ranchers. Go to good ranchers.com use code ally at checkout. That's good ranchers.com code ally. Elizabeth, thanks so much for joining us. Tell us a little bit about who you are and why you were in the headlines last year.
- [00:57]
B
First of all, thank you so much for having me. I chose to write an article Oct. 27 in the New York Post, and it was basically asking my league to put a policy in place that would protect the women's soccer for women. And I didn't realize how controversial that would be. I knew it would definitely be controversial, but didn't realize the gravity or, like, the depth that would go. And that's. I would say, what got the headlines.
- [01:20]
A
Yeah.
- [01:20]
B
And it's funny because I had, like. I really didn't want that. I kind of knew what that a little bit of, like, this is gnarly. This gets intense. This is, like, a lot. But I remember when Charlie Kerr got assassinated, I went to church with my fiance at the time, who's now my husband. And the pastor was really clear. He was like, this is actually attack on free speech. And if people are in positions to speak truth and they choose not to, we'll continue to lose that. Right? And at that point, I was like, oh, I know I need to do this. And backstory. I hadn't. I had brought up to Archer like, hey, like, this is going on in our league. And he's like, you should probably write an article. And I was like, oh, that's your
- [01:55]
A
fiance or your husband now.
- [01:56]
B
Yeah. And so I. For a couple months, he's like, oh, are you gonna write this? And I'm like, oh, maybe back and forth, like, totally waffling. And then eventually I was like, no, I'm not. I wanna keep playing. Which was objectively like, a selfish move. Slash out of fear. And then when that happened with Charlie, I was like, oh, this. We. We're at a point in culture where this actually matters a lot more than my selfish desire to play a sport. So it kind of made my like vision get wider and bigger in my perspective. And then it kind of fast forwarded to like the article coming out and then thankfully. I really appreciate that you like made a post to like share arrows with this girl because I remember being like this is really gnarly. And then all of a sudden I was like, oh, some people are like, like kind. This is crazy. And then it totally kind of exposed that like, wow, like this is a huge topic, huge divide and very big controversial issue in America right now.
- [02:41]
A
Okay, let's go back to why you even felt the need in the first place to write this article. Some people have no idea what's been going on in the women's soccer league. Are you saying that there have been men?
- [02:52]
B
Okay, so that's a great question. I would say landscape. There's like kind of three points. First last year we'd scrimmage the U14 LAFC boys team and they beat us. And then. But it's also interesting, what age? U14. So like a 14 year old boys team, like academy, about to be pro in like three years. They play us in like full grown women professional sports. They beat us, which is like relatively normal. But we keep scheduling these games cause it's really good for our training. And then.
- [03:19]
A
Okay, so you don't do it for the entertainment factor. It's really just to make you better athletes. Because I remember hearing about this, that the women's team had played like UC15 boys at some point a long time ago. They lost. So this happens regularly, correct?
- [03:33]
B
Yeah. So the teams try to schedule it because it's good, but they do close scrimmage, like private, trying to make sure it's not a public thing. Because what we're going to learn and talk more about is this kind of topic. And so this happens, like we get better, we watch the film and then in the warm up line, which a lot of conversations happen in the warm up lines on a pro sports team because you're there 30 minutes every single day. And one of our captains was like, oh, I don't think we should do it. The risk too high. And I was like, what do you mean the risk? And she was like, oh well, if the parents record it and post it on TikTok, it looks bad for us. And at that point I was like, whoa, news flash, Elizabeth. This is like if we're worried about looking bad but not worried about perfecting our craft, like we lost the plot. Like this isn't about competitive sports anymore, pro sports. There's something else happening here. And I kind of was like, oh, like, dig a little deeper. And then you realize, like, wait, if we're going to hide the fact of why women's category is important, like, why do we even have women's sports categories to begin with? And kind of that was like a core of this, like, logic framing, I'd say. And then a few other experiences in the past. Um, I was roommates with a player on a team. We were both on loan in another country, but during an off season, and this player had started growing facial hair. And I was like, that doesn't make sense. And so I was kind of confused. And there's like, like, a lot more stuff coming out where it's like, oh, like, changing pronouns and like, we need to change the rules in America. And I was kind of like, what's going on? And this is, like, a handful of years ago. So I'm, like, a little confused at this point, but, like, still not fully grasping. And also, like, where's this going? And then the next kind of thing is there's some players that, like, have joined teams in the next two to three years. The team's dead last. The player joins. They go from dead last to, like, winning the championship. And that player is, like, leading goal scorer by, like, many goals. And you're like, wait, this doesn't fully make sense. And so there's basically questions being asked, but, like, because at the end of the day, Our league in 2021 took away policy to define and protect the category of being NWSL for women. Now you're kind of in this, like, gray area of, like, case by case exception.
- [05:30]
A
Like, you don't know if those players are trans.
- [05:33]
B
Yeah.
- [05:33]
A
Like, is that what you're saying, trans?
- [05:35]
B
Or, like, partly not women? Yeah, because, like, you don't really know what the definition is because there's no clarity of what the. What. Who this is for. And what's interesting is, like, you're kind of stuck in this. Like, well, then if that's where we're actually at, then we need to just talk about defining it. So then we can actually, like, live in, like, the clarity and reality of, like, this is a fair competition, which we don't really have at the moment.
- [05:53]
A
Yeah. Okay. So the first thing was y' all played the boys U14, y' all lost, which you said is pretty typical. You started hearing people saying, well, I don't want to post about this because it could look bad because it kind of fuels the whole trans conversation.
- [06:09]
B
And women are not as athletic as men. Biologically, like it forces that fact to be very highlighted. Which people don't want that be out there.
- [06:15]
A
People don't want to show that when it used to just be. Everyone knows that. And that's okay. That's why we have different categories. And then when you were over in Europe, you realized that there seems to be some push. I've got this player over here that's growing a beard. I don't really know why people are talking about changing rules. And then you see these players in the league. The third thing that suddenly are really, really good, like better than everyone else. So you don't really know what their biology is. It reminds me of a main khalif, that person, the boxer. And people debated whether or not he was a woman, but it really turns out like he has XY chromosomes. And that's the importance of defining it in women's boxing. And that's what you're saying needed to happen in soccer.
- [06:53]
B
Correct. And it hasn't happened in our league or the women's national team. But I think what's interesting as, as I've kind of kept a pulse on this topic is that the ioc, like the International Olympic Committee new chair is made. This is like her number one running point of like, we need to define the category of women's sports. And they're spending like months of like talking to like biologists, scientists, chemists of like what's actually happening here and how do we like take all things and consider them and then make the most fair decision which I think will, over a bigger picture will correct everything. Because the Olympics is kind of a top down approach, like fix it at the top and then the rest of it will shake down.
- [07:30]
A
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- [08:35]
B
In the New York Post, I wrote an article asking for our league to define what a woman is. And if that's going to be protected in our league. And then also if there are people that don't fit the category of women that are the weaker sex that need to be protected, then we can build a third category. We can work together to build this. Because at the end of the day, like, human dignity matters and God made everybody despite whatever they were going through or struggling with, but we have to at least protect women. Then we can go to the next thing. But we can't do it out of order because currently we have. And now we're kind of in this mess.
- [09:06]
A
You said something earlier. You said when you were talking to your fiance, this is before you decided to write it. You said, no, I'm not going to write the article. I want to keep playing. So you knew that that was maybe a choice that you were gonna have to make between the two. How did you know that?
- [09:22]
B
I would. It's a really good question. I would say there's, like, a pretty strong cultural current that operates in, like, a pro sporting sphere, specifically the nwsl. And as a kid, when you're growing up playing sports, you're kind of raised of, like, do everything you can to play, to make that contract, to get on the next team, if it's to make the high school team or the college team or the pro team. So you're in this mentality of, like, I'll do anything to get there. The danger on the other side of that thinking, I'll go along to get along. I won't speak on things that are true. And I would say what's happened on a macro scale for the NWSL is I'd say there's pretty strong extreme political agendas that have built the whole thing. And so they're kind of in tandem with, like, women's sports and then a lot of strong political agendas. And I guess what I realized is that this topic specifically and multiple others that in the past I hadn't spoken about, but this will go against the group. And there was, like, no tolerance for a different opinion, no tolerance for even a question. Because I, like, worked really hard to write the article with the people that helped me of, like, how do we do it in a way that brings everybody together? We need to sit at the same table. And that was unfortunately not received at all in that fashion. I will say also something I learned that was kind of a tough reality is, like, when you write and it goes into the press, you don't have control over the pictures. And that was really, really disheartening because I was like, wait, these people are using what I'm trying to say for their agenda. I'm just trying to actually have a conversation so we can work together to move women's sports where it needs to go for women. Like, this started in the 60s. It started with title nine. Like, we're so lucky to have a chance to play sports for our job. But, like, it's almost getting hijacked and changed into these other really extreme topics. And so that's what was disheartening. And so then that was what was really hard for my teammates. Like, you let this picture be posted. And I'm like, it's not like the whole league should be tested. Don't single out one person. That's so cruel. And so that's kind of where it was, like, the really sad, tough part. But it's like, despite that picture being posted, I stand by every word I wrote, and I think it's still important to have this conversation.
- [11:13]
A
Yeah. So you felt like you went to great pains to not be inflammatory, to not try to make this a culture war, to really just about make it about protecting women's sports, even creating, like you said, a different category. Possibly you want everyone to be able to play soccer, but you want the competition to be fair. And you were probably really hoping that people would read the article in the spirit of how you meant it, but you got a lot of backlash, so talk about that.
- [11:43]
B
Yeah, the backlash was pretty brutal. What ended up happening is the article came out, and then that was like, I think on the weekend or beginning of a week. And then we have a game every weekend. So the weekend came up. And then before every game, our captains get sent out to, like, the press, to, like, do media. And before they went to their questions, the PR lady announced, like, hey, they're going to address something in the news, and there'll be no questions. And so then they, like, did the press statement, basically, and the two captains shared their thoughts on the article, and they spoke on behalf of the team and the organization. And that was really, really hard to hear because I'd had conversations with both of them in the past, and I was really close with them to the point where they were both invited to our wedding one of them helped my fiance plan the proposal. Like, they're like people that I was pretty close with. And that's where I was. Like, I feel like I've sowed so much into these friendships. I would have, like, hoped they could survive something like this, which I quickly realized, at least in the short term period, that it's not happened. But I would say I still hope for reconciliation because I know that God is a God of reconciliation and he wants us to, like, find ways to come back together with compassion, love. Not at all discrediting truth, but like slowly working through in light of truth. Yeah, but I would say that that was. They basically one of them read like, the undertones of the article are racist and transphobic and then went on to say quite a few other things and went into topics about like, where I grew up that just didn't really, like, have fully things to do with it. And then it kind of the other one shared about, like, belonging, inclusion. And then some questions that I had were like, belonging for who and inclusion to what. Like, it's belonging for some, but not for, like, for the not for me situation. So it was really tricky to be like, how do you move forward when you're showing up every day with these people and you need to. Yeah, I would say, like, what I learned, I had a really hard experience a few years prior as well. And I feel like I prayed a lot and I feel like I was like, love on offense. Like, these people can spit in your face. Theoretically, they didn't do that. Hold the door, ask how they're doing, pick up their trash. Like, engage. Because if you go quiet, Elizabeth, you. You're like losing the plot and you're like, contributing to the divide. But if you continue offering the other branch and like, making that effort, like that's the right thing to do, no matter how hard it is, it's at least an action to focus on. So keep doing that.
- [13:44]
A
Yeah, we have a couple of those clips just in case people missed it. I was, you know, staying tuned to all of this at the time, but some might not have been. So let's just play a couple of those for context. Let's play SOT9 first.
- [13:55]
B
I've had a lot of combos with my teammates in the past few days and they are hurt and they are harmed by the article and also they are disgusted by some of the things that were said in the article. And it's really important for me to say that. And we don't agree with the things written for a plethora of reasons, but mostly the undertones come across as transphobic and racist as well.
- [14:20]
A
Were you shocked to hear that the racist, harmful phobic.
- [14:24]
B
I was 100% shocked because I was like, the words I wrote, there's, like, no way that could be conceived. At least that was my strong opinion. I am aware, though, that the picture situation with the way the news works could make people think that because there
- [14:37]
A
were some black players that were depicted in the pictures that you did not choose. New York Post chose it.
- [14:42]
B
Yeah. And I'll also say the Post wanted to, like, add names. And I was like, you cannot add names. This is about, like, a bigger topic. Not you can't single out players. So, like, it was definitely turned into, like, I don't know, like, I'm going to do the right thing the best that I can, and then I can't control everything.
- [14:55]
A
Yeah.
- [14:56]
B
But, yeah, it was, I would say, like, heartbreaking and, like, really, I was really, really sad for, like, a couple days.
- [15:03]
A
Yeah, of course.
- [15:04]
B
And then I was like, God, what do you want me to do? Like, how do I engage? How do I respond? And how do I, like, love people the best of my ability with the current circumstance? And so then I ended up going on Fox News and I was like. It felt like God was basically, like, reminding me, like, these are the two people that you invited to your wedding. Like, offer the Oliver branch. Like, say, like, I hope you come. You've already said yes, please come. It's okay to disagree, but we can't resort to bullying and name calling, which I would say that clip shows. And so at the end of the day, it's like, when I. What I realized, too, is when people try to bully your name call, they're trying to delegitimize a person or a topic because they don't want to deal with it. And so it's kind of this, like, how could you ever bring that up? It's like, well, because it's actually important. And just because you don't want to talk about it doesn't mean we're not going to talk about it.
- [15:47]
A
Yeah.
- [15:47]
B
Which is why I'm, like, happy to talk to you here and continue talking about this topic more. Because I'm, like, realizing this doesn't go away.
- [15:53]
A
Yeah.
- [15:53]
B
And if those of us that have a position or a chance to speak on something that's true, don't do it. We continue losing the rights for women that are weaker than men and a lot of other rights that we have in America today.
- [16:04]
A
Were you able to have a Private conversation with them, and you don't have to reveal anything that you're not comfortable talking about. But after they accused you, racist, transphobic, all of these things, were you able to have a reasonable discussion to be able to say, well, no, like, this is what I meant and this is why it's not racist, or was that not able to happen?
- [16:24]
B
The. The conversation with the teammates that went on the news didn't happen, but multiple other teammates came to me and said what our captain said. I don't stand by. I want you to know that, like, although I don't like the situation, like, I understand what you're doing, and I, like, respect that. And then even other teammates that, like, really publicly don't agree generally on almost everything were like, I totally empathize with you. You're in a really hard spot. This is brutal. I respect this, what you're doing. I don't agree with what you're doing at all. I would counter you, but I still understand what it's like to be under attack from the oppressed.
- [16:54]
A
Right.
- [16:54]
B
So that was, like, really cool to see. I'd say silver linings, where it's like. And then there was also, like. Like, I care about you, but also, you should do this. So there's interesting levels of, like, I don't know, strategy happening.
- [17:04]
A
I'd say, yeah. Were you disappointed by any people who said, I completely agree with you. I support you, but I could never do that?
- [17:14]
B
Yeah. There's a part of me that's like, come on. Because if you do, it snowballs. And this thing actually changes in a shorter time frame than not. But at the same time, I, like, can totally empathize with. Because it was so hard for me to do this. Like, I was waffling for months about it and didn't really. I don't. It wasn't like I wanted to do it. It was more like I felt like I needed to do it.
- [17:31]
A
Yeah. Angel FC issued a statement in support of Gordon's remarks. So the player that called this, I think we have a picture of that. Our captain spoke with courage and clarity. Well, that's disappointing. That's a phrase that I say on this show all of the time, but they mean it in the opposite way. Courage and clarity. No in our community should be questioned, harassed, or targeted because of their identity, which, again, I'm sure is disappointing to you, because that is not what you called for. You didn't call for anyone to be harassed.
- [18:00]
B
No, not at all. And what's funny is, in light of that, I'M like, people have been being harassed, period, because of people's watching games and having opinions. I'm saying, have a policy so people stop getting harassed and end this, like, ambiguity because the ambiguity is what's creating it. So even though the captains may have spoke what they spoke, I'm like, the league's choosing to not be clear. The league's choosing to absolve leadership and responsibility of like, if you just lead with integrity and say what things are and stand by it, you at least will be able to like, not have this type of thing going on. And players won't be being harassed because there's no questions.
- [18:36]
A
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- [20:19]
B
That's a great question. I would say at the bottom line, it's like a physiological difference and a biological difference that's rooted in chromosomes. And so when boys hit puberty they get like their bone densities grows, their muscle tissue grows, their lung capacity grows and they're born with that and then it just matures as they grow. So even if somebody's younger they're still going to be advantage just because that's how the Y chromosome shift. And in my article I wrote two options of the way to kind of solve this potentially. One was doing people with overreach can play one sports which is what England did. And I was speaking with Sharon Davies about it how like she was spearheading that I would say thing to get done in England that the fa, which is a football association in England protected women's soccer by that policy which I would say didn't go over well with the group that's kind of running the American side. But then what the other way is to do the SRY gene test and that as I like read a lot about that it determines if the Y chromosome expresses and once it expresses is when the those kind of I would say physiological differences take place. And so then as a person that's like physically lived this and had the personal experience. When you're out there against a 14 year old boy, if he's at all close to hitting puberty, they're like simply bigger, faster, stronger. So then it forces you to play quicker which basically means you have to think faster and position yourself better. And that's where you kind of can kind of hang and we can sometimes
- [21:35]
A
mental aspect of having to think more quickly, not just move more quickly.
- [21:39]
B
Yeah. And so a lot of part and soccer is like the most beautiful game ever because the more you play the slower the game becomes. Because you're aware of the timing and then the spacing and when to go into the time when to do things spacing wise and then create spacing by your movement. Where 14 year old boys, they're just like let me run fast and try hard. So when we ever get into physical battle, they crush us. If we can play the tactical game like a chess style, we can kind of win or hang once. That's. But we don't play over 14 or 15 because at that point they're all bigger, faster, stronger and they're so much bigger, faster, stronger that the tactics don't even help you.
- [22:10]
A
Yeah.
- [22:10]
B
If your spacing and timing is better, they'll still just overpower you.
- [22:13]
A
Yeah.
- [22:13]
B
So that's I'd say at the end of the day like from physical personal experience, I'm like it doesn't matter. Like boys will always be girls. It's not a bad thing. And there's edge cases where like a not athletic boy will get beat by an athletic girl. But that doesn't really help the conversation of like what is fair and what should leagues be based on.
- [22:27]
A
Yeah. I remember this study from Duke University and it was from several years ago, maybe even before all of it became just so hyper polarized. And it was comparing track athletes and it said something along the lines of. I've cited the exact study before, but like Allison Felix, the Olympian runner, that her world record has been beaten over 15,000 times by 15 year old boys.
- [22:51]
B
Yeah.
- [22:52]
A
And who are just, you know, high school. They might be good, but they're probably not the best of the best. Oh no. And they say in the study that the key differentiator, the only one, is the existence of testes.
- [23:05]
B
Yeah.
- [23:05]
A
That, that is like, that is what makes the difference in how long and fast you can run that. Like you said, there are some exceptions. Super strong athletic girl, maybe not as strong athletic guy. But that is the rare exception. And we're not talking about the exceptions, we're talking about the rules.
- [23:21]
B
Yeah. And if you're trying to govern a group or set a standard or set precedent, it's like we're doing this for the majority. And what are the majority statistics? And like you said, it's like, and it's even like more than testies. I'm like, this is like your chromosomes when you're the egg and the sperm meet. Like this is super early on. Like once the riot chromosomes express the Y chromosome is expressed, some version of testes will be there and at that point that person is not able to compete in the female category is what the loop rule should be. Currently not. Hopefully we'll get there in the future.
- [23:47]
A
Yeah. Identities don't compete. Biology competes. And that is the difference maker.
- [23:52]
B
When I'm like, people are free will in America to live whatever identity you want. You cannot enter a competitive competition that's based on like sex based differences. Like it just isn't fair.
- [24:02]
A
Yeah.
- [24:03]
B
And it's. I'm almost sometimes like how are we here? How are we having this conversation? But then I'm like, well Elizabeth, that attitude's not helpful. This is where you're at actually getting the get in the arena and you
- [24:13]
A
still play for the same team.
- [24:14]
B
I do not play for the same team anymore. You don't? I just, they didn't sign me re sign me last year and now I'm just about to announce my retirement and then I Actually just started professional surfing.
- [24:24]
A
Okay. What in the world? Okay, let's go back. They didn't re sign you. You wanted to be re signed?
- [24:30]
B
I would say I was like, open to whatever was the best case. The new coach, they was fantastic. And as a player, I'd say the most fun part, the longer I've played, is like playing for good coaches because they, like, build a system, have an organization, have a theory, have a process to go through, and then you grow and the team's crushing it. I watched their last for sure, their first game. I haven't watched the second game, but I'm like, they're playing great football and they're winning, which is like, fun to be a part of. So playing underneath that coach, he's amazing. Would have been really cool. But I was like, there's a lot of moving pieces. I'm having to move on to the next season of my career. And I talked to, like, pro teams, like locally, state, state side and internationally. And after, like, considering that, talking with my now husband, it was like, this is. It's best to retire and move on and like, kind of be settled and have, like, build a life where you're not living out of a suitcase for the last 11 years.
- [25:08]
A
Do you think they didn't resign you because of your article?
- [25:12]
B
I wouldn't be as be so quick to say that. I would say that's for sure a piece of it. Because I just know from a pro sport standpoint, they consider like, all options, like how old you are, what their goals are as a club, where they're trying to go. I know for sure what I wrote criticizing the league was not helpful in any capacity. And whether or not Angel City, it's like every other team's like, yeah, you might be a good old wise, really competent player, but, like, probably not worth shaking the. Rocking the boat.
- [25:36]
A
Yeah, because they might think that you're on some kind of activist terror and they don't want negative press, even though they should be. Yes, we love this champion of truth and the protection of women's sports because the existence of the league depends upon the biological category of women. So you think that they would be like, totally supportive, but obviously we know that's not always the case, which is
- [25:56]
B
what's sad to me because I'm like, even if you're so bent to be inclusive, build a second division that's for open. Like, you can do that. You built a league. You worked hard, you built something like, like, it's. It's possible. Like, why are we saying no, it's almost this, like, there's not enough in the world mentality versus, like, we can build more. Especially in this country of America. We have the freedom to build more whatever we want. It's like the best blessing ever. And I'm like, the Internet flattened barrier to entry. Come on, guys, we can do this. Like, we can work together. We do need to protect the women's category. Your free will to build what you want.
- [26:23]
A
Has it surprised you other, like, you know, professional soccer players like Megan Rapinoe have not only not said anything about protecting women's sports, but have been very outright and say, no, we want everyone who identifies as a woman to play women's sports. And I mean, you've got to think, like, gosh, how would that have affected your ability to become a professional athlete if that had been the case 20 years ago?
- [26:45]
B
Yeah, I would say, like, two things for sure. Limits the ability to play pro sports because now you're competing not with just with girls, but with whoever else that wants to or is working through their identity or is born with different chromosome expressions. But what I would say is, what's interesting is that you have, like, the lgt, PQ plus situation at the moment, and half of that are people. Like, it crosses a line from, like, biology to identity where it's trying to, like, continue with this, like, intersectionality of the oppressed group. And once you kind of get there, like, Megan Rapinoe is, like, now, like, I would say, whether or not she's like, thinking fully through, like, has to continue on this path, right? Versus being like, wait, what's real here and where. If you even pull people that were, like, originally in that people group before it added all these extra letters, then they're like, wait, I don't want this. This isn't right. This isn't fair. And even, like, I've spoken with people in the trans community and some very much want to be playing sports. Some are like, stop using us as political footballs. So it's, It's. What's really interesting is people are struggling and they don't need to be targeted, harassed, they need to be supported, but they also don't need to go, I would say, take away from women who are weaker than men and weaker than people that take testosterone or have Y chromosomes. So to me, it's like, it's a little bit messy, but it's still really clear. Like, it's just hard to enact and people aren't really willing to deal with, like, I would say, physical reality.
- [28:09]
A
All right? Let me tell you about my friends at Alliance Defending Freedom. They are fighting for the rights of girls and women to be able to play in the space sports of their sex, to not have to play against men. That's so important. But they're also fighting for our First Amendment rights and the rights of religious liberty around the world. ADF is actually in a hundred different countries, and many of those countries persecute Christians, persecute religious people, especially in a country like Turkey where people who are preaching the gospel are being jailed. And so ADF is representing these Christians. They are actually representing 20 cases of Christians who have been expelled in the highest court in Europe. But they need our help. They need, need our support, our prayers, our encouragement, and our donations. Go to joinadf.com ally all gifts will be matched thanks to a special Grant. Go to joinadf.com ally. Professional surfing has the same issue. We've had Bethany Hamilton. I said we haven't had a female athlete. We've had Bethany Hamilton.
- [29:12]
B
Oh, nice. That's awesome.
- [29:13]
A
You know, she spoke up about the same issue. And so are you worried at all or thinking about how this issue will also affect professional surfing?
- [29:21]
B
I definitely the thought crossed my mind because I, like, read a little bit about her in that topic. But again, I'm like, I think competing in sports are really fun and it's like a really good thing to do. If I'm able to speak on it or share about it, I happily will. But I'm also like, I think it'll be good to compete and talk about it because I think people talk about it and leave something where I'm like, oh, I'll start to try a new sport and see how it goes. But the topic definitely is not going anywhere. But again, I think with the Olympic situation and how that, like, leadership is, I would say trying to lead well with strength and get clarity on this issue will, like, really trickle down.
- [29:52]
A
Well, yeah. Okay. I'm so curious how you even got these convictions in the first place. Most people in any industry of any background would say, I don't want to rock the boat. I know you talked about Charlie Kirk, but obviously the conviction was before Charlie. So just. That might be a really long answer of telling your entire life story, but just tell me of how you shaped your beliefs and got the courage that you have.
- [30:15]
B
That's a great question. Growing up, we would go to church every Sunday, and then I would say I went to a private Christian middle school called Calvary Chapel, and we had a Tuesday chapel. And this guy spoke and shared his testimony. And his name was Joey Brand. And he shares that he was the best surfer in the world. Went to Hawaii, won the Pipe Masters, got a perfect 10 shot out of the barrel. Like, the crowd comes down, carries him on the shoulders, runs to the podium, he gets the trophy. And then it starts to rain and he's like, this was it. I did all this work for this moment, and now it's over. And then he tried to commit suicide. Woke up three days later in the hospital bed and was like, God, you must be real, and what do you have for me? So he shared that story. And I'm 12 or 13, and I'm like, well, I'm going to be good at sports. I don't want to end up being totally depressed when I get the goal I thought was going to bring any amount of satisfaction. And so then I really kind of like, started reading the Bible, studying it. And in high school, my mom and I, like, started reading the Bible together in a year. And that time, like, just reading the word and slowly trying to figure out what it's actually saying. And seeing, like, the throughline story of God's redemptive grace, but also his, like, uncompromising truth where he actually holds those two tensions. Like, Jesus is like, this is wrong, but I still love you. Like, you can't throw the first stone, but go and sin no more. Like, he actually holds it so perfectly. And so getting to, like, study that through high school and then through college. And I'd say up till this point, I've probably read the Bible through 10 times and just trying to, like, slowly pour truth in is where I was like, okay, this is true. Not compromising. But then what was always kind of a bit of a tricky navigation throughout, like, my pro career was cool. How does it relate now that I'm in playing a sport for my job, now that, like, I'm somewhat expected to speak on things or have make decisions on things really publicly that unfortunately or fortunately, like, get over it. That's the job. Are, like, in the news, in the press, and you're going to, like, take heat for it or you're going to get praised for it, but you're in the arena and so, like, figuring out how to navigate that's been really, I would say, tricky and difficult, but I feel like I'm slowly coming into, like, you need to just speak the truth and, and don't hide about it anymore. Where in the past I was, like, more willing to, like, go along, to get along. And I would say my faith's grown stronger as I've seen God be faithful. He, like, he always provides. He always sustains. And I'm like, at the end of the day, I'm going to answer to God, not to anybody else here on this earth. And I think that conviction and that, like, focus has grown so much that I now I'm like, I would almost say, feel strong enough for, like, God speak through me. I'm willing to, like, be obedient to your Holy Spirit. So it's been like a long, long, slow journey. But I would say it's like just reading the Word and, like, genuinely being, like, God, what's true? And, like, help me understand.
- [32:34]
A
Tell me how that helped you in the couple days after seeing your teammates say, you know, basically, she's a racist.
- [32:43]
B
I would say the most important piece was just remembering when Jesus is like, you're going to have persecution, you're going to have trials. Like, it's going to be worse now that I'm leaving, but I'm going to leave you the Holy Spirit. And just remembering certain truths, like, that was, this is expected. And then almost in a weird way, like, this is good because you're actually doing something that matters. Because if you were unbothered, then you're probably not making much of a difference. And if you have a position to do that and you do make the difference, then you will have backlash, which is, like, should be expected, almost. So I'd almost say it was, like, encouraging. And then also, weirdly, like, confidence building.
- [33:13]
A
Yeah. So you're becoming a professional surfer after being a professional soccer player for so long. Tell me what went into that decision.
- [33:21]
B
I actually grew up wanting to surf. That was my favorite sport, hands down. I liked it so much that at 12, I begged my mom to homeschool me. And I was like, please, mom, homeschool me. Drop me off at the beach every day. It's gonna be amazing. And she's like, sure. I have three younger siblings, so it didn't really go quite as planned. I'd wake up early, get all my work done, by, like, 10am I'd be like, hey, Mom, I'm ready to be dropped off at the beach. And she'd be like, well, your three younger siblings are still sleeping, but here's a lot of laundry to fold. So after three months of, like, like, that experience, I was like, please send me back to school. I'd rather be social and, like, hang out friends so that, like, didn't go to pro surfing at a young age. But what it did happen is Like, I still loved surfing. And then I ended up joining the surf team in high school. And I went to a public high school called Newport harbor, and I. I won states for, like, the JV level, which was, like, pretty cool. Like, surfing here and there. And the girl, two girls ahead of me went pro. And then what I remember happening is the guy, Joey Brand, who, like, spoke when I became a Christian, he watched me play high school girls basketball freshman year and was like, hey, when you're done with pro soccer, save up 20 grand two years ago, get you on the world tour. And I was like, oh, cool. So I just finished soccer. I went. Met with him a couple months ago. I'm like, hey, like, I'm looking.
- [34:23]
A
And he saw you play basketball.
- [34:25]
B
Yeah, like, 12 or. No, like 13 or 14.
- [34:27]
A
Okay.
- [34:27]
B
And he was like, you're just athletic enough. And, yeah, like, if you love this a lot, I'm happily gonna help you out. And, like, since then, like, he's coached the English national team for surfing, the US national team, a couple other countries. And he's, like, coached them to the Olympic gold and stuff. And so he's like, hey, this is who you should work with. He's like, the landscape's changed a bit, so, like, go for it if you want. So I would say I'm pursuing it now, but I would say what's the biggest change is that in soccer and a lot of team sports, it's like, push, push, push. And you're, like, combatively competing where surfing is a totally different chain, like, experience where you can't surf well unless you're in flow state because you're riding the wave. Like, it's you and the wave and doing art together. And if you don't do that, well, like, there's no one else on the wave with you. So I would say I'm learning a whole new way of, like, approaching sport in a competitive space, which has been so rewarding and also, like, freeing and in a weird way, way less stressful because there's, like, no other people involved.
- [35:17]
A
Yeah.
- [35:18]
B
And then I found, like, a coach. So he's starting to coach me, and he's probably gonna shape me a surfboard. And so kind of getting into, like, that art and finding out, like, what's the right dimensions and shape and size for my size, height and weight and, like, kind of building out, like, I would say, like, my tools to go, like, play in the ocean better.
- [35:31]
A
Yeah, I think. I don't know how old you are. We're probably around 34. Okay. We're around the same. Yeah, we're the exact same age. Had to think of what AJ is. So I'm sure that that's, like, a little unconventional for starting a new professional Sport to be 34.
- [35:45]
B
Yeah, totally unconventional. And I would say it's very much something I'm holding Lucy of, like, God, I would love to do this, but, like, if you open doors, I'll go, and if you close, it's, like, cool. I'm happy for whatever's else. But three weeks ago, I did just get back from Barbados, my first pro surfing contest ever, and I. I surfed in the. I think it was a BTMI Barbados Open, and it was for the wsl, which stands for World Surf League, in the qualifying series. I, like, lost in the first round, but it was like, I got to put the jersey on, I got a paddle out, and I was like, this is the coolest thing ever. And then I made some friends in the heat who I've surfed together with at Trestles, which is. Or Uppers beach in Trestles, which is, like, one of the best surface in the world. So just getting to start surfing and be around people doing it at a high level, I'm like, this is so much fun. And I would say I'm almost approaching from, like, this is fun enjoyed as much as you can versus I have to win and be the best.
- [36:26]
A
Yeah.
- [36:27]
B
I think the energy you approach things with, like, totally transforms experience. And I'm learning to, like, really trust God in the how versus in soccer world for 11 years. And, like, my whole life was, like, optimize and be the best, which quickly becomes, like, very, like, striving and, like, effortful, where I feel like God's like, my yoke is be easy. My burden is light. Like, that is not the way to approach it. And then when I. I've been in states of that, I'm like, oh, this is right. And then all of a sudden, I slip out and do it my own way. Yeah, but surfing will require that.
- [36:52]
A
That is so cool.
- [36:53]
B
Yeah.
- [36:54]
A
You just got married, and hopefully one day y' all will have a family, have kids and. Yeah, little athletic kids. Do you think at all about what the future of girl sports will look like if you have a daughter one day?
- [37:07]
B
I do think about the future of women's sports, and I'm hoping to have mult many daughters, and that doesn't. They won't have opportunities I had unless I do choose to speak up now and then and ask my other peers to speak up and ask anybody in women's sports to speak up. Ask fathers to speak up. Like ask anyone that cares, like share what's going on and stand for what you believe is true. And even if you don't believe the same as me, have the dialogue and get out there versus like sitting behind closed doors and this whole group think thing and then just saying mean things like actually have the discussion and then respectfully disagree. I just don't, I'm like really disheartened by like the choice to like label cut out and then like not engage. And that's happening like all over American, all topics and all spheres. And you're like, this is not how we move forward.
- [37:48]
A
Yeah. Next sponsor is Patriot Mobile. Every day you have the opportunity to vote with your dollar. You don't have to wait till November to vote in the midterms. You can vote today by switching to a company that aligns with your values. That is Patriot Mobile. They are a cell provider that believes in the first, it and second amendment, the sacredness of life inside the womb. Veterans, first responders, they are supporting the causes that we believe in. So when you switch to Patriot mobile you get 100% US based customer service. You get great service, great care from them and you are aligning yourself with the values that you believe in. You are spending your hard earned dollars on a company that actually cares about the things that you do. Go to patriotmobile.com ally when you use code ally you'll get a free month of service. It is well worth it. Go to patriotmobile.com ally code all. I watched this young man and gosh, his name is escaping me. But I was recently at a banquet and he was giving his testimony. He actually gave a speech for Trump and he's this little 12 year old boy and he lives in California and he spoke up because they had a reading buddy program and one of the books that he was required to read to it, his kindergarten buddy was about transgenderism and about, you know, being able to identify however you want to. And this sweet Christian boy was like, well, I don't want to do this. Like I feel so guilty reading this to this kid. And he very kindly and respectfully spoke up to the teacher. The parents went to the school. It turned into this whole big controversy where the entire school had a pink out day to protest him and protest this little boy standing up for the truth and standing up for this impressionable mind that he was reading to. His friends turned against him. Friends parents turned against him. And anyway, they ended up transferring to a different school and I was just listening to him. I was sobbing my eyes out as a mom because it just challenged me. I was like, I want to raise brave kids, not just safe kids. Yes, we want our kids to be safe, but I want to raise that kind of child, the kind of child who is willing to stand up even when everyone turns, again, against them. I'm sure you think about that a lot, as I have all girls, and so is it like, a mom of daughters? It's hard because there's so much coming after our girls, but, like, gosh, I want them to have the courage, like, you have to be able to speak up when it's really hard.
- [40:17]
B
Yeah. And I would say, I feel like, to your point, what's super important is, like, the parenting and the parent, its ability to, like, create a safe, loving place for the kid to learn and grow and, like, be able to speak up at 12 to be like, I don't want to do this, or I feel uncomfortable and share that.
- [40:31]
A
Yeah.
- [40:31]
B
Takes so much courage. And. And then what's really interesting is the other side of the conversation saying, it takes courage, and it's like, yeah, but where's the truth? Because at the end of the day, unless we seek the truth, we're gonna get lost. Pretty far off.
- [40:42]
A
Yeah, totally. How did you meet your husband?
- [40:44]
B
We met on Hinge. Dating apps work.
- [40:46]
A
Really?
- [40:46]
B
Yeah.
- [40:47]
A
Okay. Do you hear that? Do you hear that? Because. Yes, my assistant.
- [40:53]
B
Yeah.
- [40:53]
A
Anyway, we've had a conversation about dating apps. I won't get into the details, but we were just talking about how sometimes, like, the unconventional things really do work. God can use them.
- [41:03]
B
I would prefer it in person, as would he, but you're like, hey, this is where everybody that is in the psychographic to want to date spends their time when they're looking to date. So just try it out. And then I tried it out, and it worked.
- [41:12]
A
Yeah.
- [41:12]
B
But I have heard a lot of bad stories, so, you know, there's both experiences.
- [41:15]
A
Of course, you can't say it works for everyone, but it only takes one.
- [41:19]
B
You're looking for one. God can use any pathway. Why would we, like, in pride, say, I won't do that? Like, yeah. Yeah.
- [41:25]
A
And y' all have been married for just a few months now?
- [41:27]
B
Yeah, two and a half months.
- [41:28]
A
Oh, my goodness. Congratulations. I didn't actually realize it had been that recent. And y' all are still in California, navigating the craziness there.
- [41:35]
B
Yes, we're in California, but we're in Newport beach, which is, I would say, a city that's A lot more protective towards, like, I would say common sense.
- [41:42]
A
Yeah.
- [41:42]
B
Put it simply. Yeah.
- [41:43]
A
Do you feel a call at all to kind of stay there and be a light in the darkness? Not saying that all of California is dark, but it's very progressive.
- [41:52]
B
Oh, 100. I would say since I was young, I was like, I would love to move back to Newport and, like, help even this city be better and also our whole state. Because I genuinely think California is one of the best places of land in the world.
- [42:06]
A
Yeah.
- [42:06]
B
And it's got so much going for it. And then the current leadership is just running in a direction that I think is very bad.
- [42:11]
A
Yeah.
- [42:11]
B
And so it's like, how can you get involved in help? And I do not think running away is a good idea. Although a lot of our family friends have moved. And I'm like. Like, I understand, but, like, come back. Like, it's worth it. If we come back together in our uniform and actually choose to show up to, like, school board meetings and city council meetings and just participate, I think that would really go a long way.
- [42:28]
A
Yeah. You spoke on the steps of the Supreme Court earlier this year. I think it was, like, during the week that we were at the same event for Alliance Defending Freedom. And this was about a case over girls sports and protecting Title 9. Tell me about that experience.
- [42:44]
B
That was totally, like, not on the radar, and I would say really cool and was really empowering. And it was. The biggest thing that was changed for me is that it made me realize how far or how bad the situation is. I didn't realize that the policies are so fragile that protect women's sports. And, like, hearing the. At the. The gala thing, when the people that argued the case came and shared what was actually going on, and realizing that, I think it was this. This case is to set precedent. So 34 of the states in America are able to protect women. Women's sports, which then tells you, wait, right now they can't. And so the fact that the policies are so bad and so unprotective of women and women's sports made me realize, oh, there's a long way to go. And, like, oh, I should probably keep going and share and help and try to get involved, because this is a whole lot bigger than me or soccer. And so I would say that was, like, a huge, pivotal moment for me of, like, oh, time to get in the game. Like, the real game.
- [43:34]
A
Yeah. Okay. If anyone out there, no matter what industry they're in, sports or not, is kind of in the position that you were before Charlie died, they know that they have something to say. They know that something around them is wrong. But they're scared to lose their job, lose opportunities, lose safety, friends or whatever. What encouragement would you give someone in that situation?
- [43:54]
B
If anyone's struggling with fear of loss, if it's loss of job or friends or. Or safety even, I would say remember who you're living for, and remember that at the end of the day, you're going to stand before God, an answer for your actions, and that will give you the courage to push through. And then also remember the God that you do serve. He's faithful, he sustains and he provides, and he works a whole lot bigger and better than any of us can think or conceive. And so, like, trusting in that, knowing that and then doing the. And doing the best you can, you're going to mess up. You're going to say silly things, you're going to step on your toes. Like, it's going to not be perfect, but you're obedient and God rewards obedience. And God's like, I just ask you to follow me. You don't have to become or do all this stuff. Just be obedient to me.
- [44:33]
A
That's so important. We always talk about doing the next right thing, which obviously I didn't come up with that quote, but doing the next right thing in faith, with excellence, and for the glory of God, that's really all we're asked to do. Like, God didn't ask you when you wrote the article to speak on the steps of Supreme Court. You didn't know that. And maybe if he had showed you, okay, like, are you willing to lose this friend and do all of that? Maybe you would have said no. But he doesn't reveal the entire path at once. He just says, just like, take the next step and trust me. And then sometimes we look back and we're like, oh, my gosh, I had no idea that I was going to run that far or go all of those places. He takes care of it well.
- [45:08]
B
And even, like, sometimes it's a place that I don't really want to go. But then he's like, no, I'm going to lead you. Then you're like, wait, this is actually really purposeful and way more important than things that I would. Wouldn't have even conceived of. So it's like, I would say a lot more like grounding and has to do for purpose than a lot of times we like to think.
- [45:23]
A
I saw this analogy the other day on X and it was Tim Keller. I don't know if you ever, like, read any Tim Keller stuff, but he was talking about when he was a young pastor speaking to an older woman in his church who had gone through a lot, a lot of hardship and betrayal in her life. And he would always try to talk with her through the hard things that she went through, but she would always answer with, well, God's gonna do this. Jesus is coming back one day. God is going to take care of everything that has ever been done wrong. Always would point back to Christ and what she'll get in heaven. And he thought of, you know, she really had this kind of watchtower approach that when you're in the midst of battle and it looks like the enemy is winning, and around you, it just looks bloody. But if you could go up to the watchtower and you see, like, the Lord's army or the other army, like, coming over the horizon, and you know that victory is on its way, you're going to have a very different perspective of the pain and the bloodiness that's right before you. It seems like we're losing down here, but if you can climb up to the watchtower and see that, okay, God's got it. I don't know how, but he's got it. It really changes our perspective. I don't know that I always have that perspective. Yeah, but it's comforting.
- [46:31]
B
I'm. I totally agree. I feel like whatever kind of you focus on grows. And the more I focus on, like, reading the Word and just praying in that, asking God for guidance, direction, the more I'm getting clarity of, like, make this call to this person. Say yes to this. Go do this. And then I'm like, this is, like, kind of crazy. It doesn't make sense. And I feel like I'm just, like, saying yes without fully understanding. And then it just gets better and better. It still gets, I would say, more painful at times, but it's like, I know that I have peace, that, like, I'm doing what God wants me to do, but I totally agree.
- [47:02]
A
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- [48:17]
B
Yeah, it's crazy because I. Archer was like, hey, I think you, you made meself some bitterness towards soccer and your team. And then I was. We went to Prayer Mountain recently. Like, we went took backpacks, bibles and journals and spent like eight hours just in nature, like praying and journaling separately. And then I came back and I felt like God was like, just study my word and like know me more. So every morning I'd get up and do that for a few hours. And then one of the days Angel City had had their first game and I like watched it and then I texted one of the, the friends who said that stuff and I was like, great second assist, great job. Like, I had no like, bitterness. And I feel like that was totally a gift from God because it is so easy to be like, they hurt me. I'm mad at them.
- [48:55]
A
Yeah.
- [48:55]
B
And then, then I'm like angry. And then all this energy is going towards this like terrible emotion that like, no one's getting hurt but me. And I'm like, this is just silly, but I can't get rid of it. And then I have to be like, God, please purify. Burn this out of me. Like, I can't change it. And then he does, but it's like I have to be able to call it what it is. And like it's something, a spirit in me that I can't change. Like, please God, take the spirit of bitterness. Like, remove it from me. And then he does and I'm like, I'm free again. And I feel like this whole, our whole lives are this like, dance where you're like totally submitted to God. And like, I think it's Romans 12, 1, 2. It's like you're a living sacrifice at his feet. And then all the time, since we're still living. We get up and walk away.
- [49:29]
A
Yeah.
- [49:29]
B
And he's like, come on back. It's way better here. And then you're, like, in this whole tension.
- [49:32]
A
Yeah.
- [49:33]
B
But I would say I. I've forgiven them. And I'm like, I hope that we can reconcile. And I'm, like, excited for whenever that day will be.
- [49:39]
A
Yeah.
- [49:39]
B
I mean, has it not happened yet and might not ever happen, and that's okay. But, like, trusting that, like, God can ordain that if he wants, and if he doesn't, like, he'll still work in his powerful ways to do what's good.
- [49:49]
A
Amen. Are you optimistic about the future of women's sports?
- [49:52]
B
Yeah, I really am optimistic about the future women's sports. I think that just speaking and learning to speak, because I even think I struggle with. I. I swam in this pool for 11 years. Like, I would be like, I feel bad to say these things. And it's like, I was told in, like, group think until, like, you can't talk like this because you're from this background, or you're this skin color. And I'm like, wait, what? And now I'm, like, slowly learning to articulate myself and use words of like, no, that's not true. This is what's true. And I'm okay for you to be upset with me, and I think just being able to have that confidence to do that and asking, like, God, reveal in me the things I've agreed to that aren't biblical and, like, help me refine that so I can stand on what's true.
- [50:26]
A
Yeah.
- [50:27]
B
And so I would say, like, as I start to do that more, like, I know that it. What somebody said at that gala, courage is contagious.
- [50:34]
A
Yeah.
- [50:34]
B
And the more you speak up, the more you speak truth, the more, like, people will also be emboldened to speak truth. And that's, like, the only way forward.
- [50:40]
A
Yeah. Amen. We say that on the show a lot. Okay, final thing. Someone's listening, and they're like, gosh, I just want to support her. Like, I just want to support her voice. I want her voice to be even louder. Is there a way that they can do that, even if it's just through prayer?
- [50:55]
B
I would say prayer is for sure the most important. And, like, I guess. I guess follow along and, like, see what happens. And I'm not fully sure where that goes, but it's like, wherever God, you lead, I want to follow. And I would. Yeah, just say mainly prayer and, like. And then I would even say the best way to support is to, like, join. Like, go to your city council meetings, go to your school board meetings. Like, pay attention to, like, topics you care about. And if you don't care, don't go. But, like, if you care, go and speak up and actually let help the policy move in a more positive direction.
- [51:20]
A
Praise God. Well, thank you so much, Elizabeth. I really appreciate it.
- [51:23]
B
Yeah. Thank you,
- [51:31]
A
Sam.