Religion on the Mind – Episode #385

Anxious Times (Part 1): Healthy vs. Unhealthy Anxiety

Host: Dr. Dan Koch
Guest: Kristin Tiedman
Date: March 9, 2026

Episode Overview

In the first installment of the “Anxious Times” miniseries, Dr. Dan Koch—licensed therapist and psychology of religion researcher—teams up with friend and collaborator Kristin Tiedman to unpack anxiety through the lens of existential psychology. Together, they explore the difference between healthy and unhealthy anxiety, applying the insights of existential thinkers to both private experiences (like religious transition and illness) and broader sociopolitical upheaval. The conversation blends personal anecdotes, clinical wisdom, and philosophical context, all delivered with warmth and approachable humor.

Main Themes & Purpose

• Apply existential psychology concepts to periods of increased anxiety—personally, socially, and religiously.
• Normalize anxiety as a natural, sometimes helpful response, while discerning when it becomes harmful or pathological.
• Provide frameworks and practical tools for listeners to evaluate and manage their own anxious states.
• Connect psychological theory to lived experiences, especially in contexts of religious change.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Setting the Stage: “Anxious Times” in Context

• The series is designed to offer practical applications of existential psychology and existentialist philosophy to periods of heightened anxiety (sociopolitical, personal, or spiritual) ([00:15]).

• Dan highlights that anxiety has been on the rise in the U.S., particularly since 2016, but points out America has faced such tides many times in its history.

• Personal and private anxious times, such as religious transitions, health crises, and new parenting, are equally relevant ([01:45]).

  “The main goal... is to take specific ideas from the worlds of existential psychology... that have practical application to human beings living through periods of high anxiety, which we’re calling anxious times.” — Dan Koch [01:00]

Personal Reflections on Anxiety

• Kristin shares her current “triple crown” of anxiety: new parenthood, return of MS symptoms, and ongoing religious transition ([02:49]).

• Both hosts joke candidly about their health-related anxieties, e.g., Kristin’s colonoscopy story and Dan’s history of panic disorder—highlighting the mind-body connection ([08:31]).

  “I am fairly convinced it was psychosomatic... I was having major digestive issues, and I didn’t know that psychosomatic... that was a thing.” — Kristin Tiedman [10:05]

Core Takeaways (Dan’s Three Main Points)

1. Some anxiety is not only normal, but healthy:

• It is an authentic response to difficult situations and can be a catalyst to fuller living ([06:20], [07:11]). 2. Anxiety can become pathological:
• When it closes us in, makes our world smaller, or cuts us off from life ([06:56], [07:11]). 3. Biology of anxiety:
• Unhelpful, anxious thoughts are often tied to high physical/emotional arousal.
• Helpful anxiety most often happens when distress is manageable ([07:11]).

“Healthy anxiety can and does spur us on toward living a more full life.” — Dan Koch [06:37]

The Body and Anxiety

• The mind and body are inseparable; all psychological experience emerges from our brains—part of our biology.

• A key therapeutic practice: checking in with one’s internal state using Subjective Units of Distress (SUDs), e.g., rating distress from 1–10 ([11:24], [14:07]).

• This self-check fosters self-knowledge and creates space for insight ([14:07]).

  “Just the act of checking in on oneself... can be a useful skill to build up, especially for people who have a hard time identifying that.” — Dan Koch [11:24]

Mood-Congruent Thinking

• Our current mood heavily shades our thoughts; when highly anxious, calm or grateful thoughts don’t “stick” ([14:41]).

• Emotional change lags behind cognitive change; techniques like gratitude can help, but are typically only marginally effective in the moment ([17:17]).

• Dan explains the limits of “quick fixes” and emphasizes deeper, longer-term existential work ([17:17], [19:20]).

  “Generally, emotional change tends to lag behind cognitive skill-building... It’s a long game.” — Dan Koch and Kristin Tiedman [19:20]

Practical Tips for Extreme Distress

• Dan introduces the “TIPP” skills from Dialectical Behavior Therapy:

  • Temperature (change body temp, e.g., cold shower)
  • Intense exercise
  • Paced breathing
  • Paired muscle relaxation
    ([27:55])

  “These are things you can do right now... to help get you down.” — Dan Koch [27:55]

• TIPP is considered “bottom-up;” start with the body to affect the mind ([30:05]).

Religion, Anxiety, and Spiritual Conviction

• Many raised in high-control religious environments learn to interpret anxiety as the Holy Spirit’s conviction or spiritual danger ([33:37]).

• This interpretation can reinforce anxiety spirals; communities may reinforce that interpretation, preventing alternative, potentially healthier understandings ([33:37], [37:25]).

  “Being at an 8 or a 9 can instantly produce a specific kind of catastrophic thought, like 'God is punishing me' or 'I’m backsliding.'” — Dan Koch [33:37]

• Kristin recalls childhood church anxiety and being physically affected by religious education ([37:41]).

Existential Psychology: Context over Symptom

• Post-WWII, psychologists and philosophers developed existential psychology in response to “reasonable” anxiety, despair, and meaning crises ([39:38]).
• Focus is on understanding suffering in context, treating anxiety as a potential signpost toward authentic living, not just a “symptom” to eliminate ([41:00]).
• Key thinkers: Karl Jaspers, Kierkegaard, Nietzsche, Rollo May.

“We respond to anxiety with responsibility... identifying what we value in the world and turning that into purposeful action.” — Dan Koch [41:00]

Healthy vs. Pathological Anxiety

Healthy Anxiety:

• Is natural, rooted in our consciousness of limitation and mortality.
• Drives creativity and engagement with life.
• Existential quote:

  "...the creative interchange of human personality rests upon the fact that we know we're going to die... our knowledge... gives us a normal anxiety that says to us, make the most of these years you are alive.” — Rollo May [49:32]

• Anxiety is a clue or invitation for our world to get bigger.

Pathological Anxiety:

• Makes our world smaller, closes us off, leads to excessive rumination and withdrawal.
• Clinical “cognitive distortions”: all-or-nothing thinking, catastrophizing, fortune telling ([60:37]).
• Examples: feeling that every anxiety spike must be a sign of guilt or doom; refusing to engage with life due to “what ifs” ([65:37]), e.g., not having children out of fear for the future.

Applied Examples

• Day-to-day: Sunday night anxiety before work—do you need CBT, or does this mean a new job? Anxiety is sometimes a clue for change ([55:03]).

• Religious context: Anxiety about beliefs or morality can be a clue that you need to explore new ways of thinking or a new community ([56:46]).

• Sociopolitical: Healthy anxiety may drive activism, creative response; unhealthy anxiety may induce powerlessness or nihilism ([58:50], [62:27]).

  “Healthy anxiety is an invitation... to open up, to ask more questions, to try things, to look more closely.” — Dan Koch [58:50]

Internet Culture & Catastrophizing

• Social media algorithms are not designed for clarity, but to maximize engagement—often amplifying catastrophizing and negative emotions ([74:35]).

• The rise of online spaces may fuel cultural habits of anxiety, overreaction, and hopelessness.

  “The algorithms are not built for clarity and aligning with reality... negative emotion, catastrophe, fear, anxiety... are kind of natural engines [of online engagement].” — Dan Koch [74:35]

Closing Framework & Takeaways

Revisited Takeaways ([77:10]):

1. Some anxiety is normal—and potentially healthy.
2. Pathological anxiety closes us in, making our worlds smaller.
3. Helpful anxious thoughts happen when distress is present, but manageable—not when you’re overwhelmed (8/10+).

“We’re not aiming for zero. We’re aiming for appropriate anxiety that spurs us on to wider and better lives.” — Dan Koch [78:38]

Practical Steps & Resources

• If your anxiety is haunting or paralyzing:
  • Therapy: Find support, work through unhealthy anxiety.
  • Self-help books: “The Feeling Good Handbook” (David Burns), “Retrain Your Brain” (Seth Gillihan), “It’s On Me” (Sarah Kubrick).
  • Online resources: Beck Institute (beckinstitute.org).
  • Coaching: Dan offers existential psychology-based coaching; email for more info.
  • When highly distressed (8–10), avoid making big life decisions; ground yourself before acting ([25:12]).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The pressure to not be stressed makes me stressed.” — Kristin Tiedman [03:40]

• “You could say there's a natural, organic distress response that is valuable and a kind of bad, pathological, unhelpful one that is not.” — Dan Koch [05:23]

• “Mood-congruent thinking means, in general, our thoughts align with our current mood... If you’re up at an 8 or a 9 out of 10, calm thoughts are not going to feel like they're sticking.” — Dan Koch [14:41]

• “Don’t make impactful decisions when you’re feeling really dysregulated, highly anxious. Avoiding making those decisions will minimize later regrets.” — Dan Koch [25:12]

• “We want to understand the psychological suffering that our clients are experiencing in context, because sometimes the context is [that] it makes perfect sense... let’s use it.” — Dan Koch [41:00]

• “We are conscious of our own selves, our own tasks, and also we know we’re going to die... our knowledge of our death is what gives us a normal anxiety that says to us, make the most of these years you are alive.” — Rollo May [49:32]

• “Healthy anxiety invites us to bigger and more full life. Unhealthy anxiety closes us in on ourselves.” — Dan Koch [63:54]

• “Everything is always keep changing... [Saunders] encourages his students to remember to document this and continue being creative, even if it might be challenging, which is, I think, the call.” — Kristin Tiedman [64:31]

• “The algorithms are not built for clarity and aligning with reality... negative emotion, catastrophe, fear, anxiety, these things... are kind of natural engines of doing more [online].” — Dan Koch [74:35]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Intro & series overview: [00:15]–[04:58]
• Kristin’s personal “triple crown” of anxiety: [02:49]–[04:58]
• Core takeaways (Dan’s 3 points): [05:08]–[07:10]
• Checking in with your distress: [11:12]–[14:07]
• Mood congruent thinking & gratitude “fixes”: [14:41]–[19:20]
• TIPP skills for distress: [27:55]–[30:20]
• Religion, anxiety, and conviction: [33:37]–[37:25]
• Existential psychology context: [39:38]–[46:17]
• Rollo May clip on anxiety & creativity: [49:32]
• Healthy vs. pathological anxiety: [55:03]–[63:54]
• Social media & catastrophizing: [74:35]
• Closing summary and practical resources: [77:10]–[83:46]

Tone and Style

Warm, conversational, candid, and gently irreverent (with “a little bit of cussing” as advertised). Dan and Kristin seamlessly blend clinical expertise, philosophical depth, humor, and vulnerable personal storytelling—inviting listeners into a nuanced, empowering inquiry about anxiety.

For Next Time...

• Episode 2 will explore “boundary situations”—those moments when inherited systems of meaning collapse and deeper forms of anxiety emerge.

Contact: dan@religiononthemind.com
Links:

• [Feeling Good Handbook – David Burns]
• [Retrain Your Brain – Seth Gillihan]
• Beck Institute CBT Resources
• [It’s On Me – Dr. Sarah Kubrick (book)]

Summary prepared for listeners by AI podcast summarizer – Religion on the Mind, 2026