Religion on the Mind – Episode #381: C.S. Lewis's "The Great Divorce" (Part 4)

Host: Dan Koch
Guest: Kristin Tiedemann ("Mighty Steed")
Date: February 19, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode marks the final installment in a four-part deep dive into C.S. Lewis’s The Great Divorce. Host Dan Koch and co-host Kristin Tiedemann continue their chapter-by-chapter discussion, focusing on the book’s penultimate allegorical encounters. Their conversation navigates themes of control, gender norms, marital dynamics, the impact of social algorithms, “therapy-speak” culture, and the need for self-awareness in relationships—both then and now.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Summary of Chapters 10 & 11

[02:24–03:30]

• Chapter 10:
  • Focuses on a "ghostly" wife who spent life trying to train her husband, Reginald.
  • She’s confronted in heaven about her inability to let go of controlling, manipulative love, justified as "duty".
  • She chooses her own misery over transformation and joy.
  • Dan: "This may be the height of the latent sexism in the book." (02:27)
• Chapter 11:
  • Features two stories:
    • A mother whose love for her son Michael has become idolatrous and possessive—she literally demands he return with her to hell.
    • A ghost who must let go of the red lizard (symbolizing lust); upon surrender, the lizard is transformed into a glorious horse—a vivid Narnia-type redemption scene, and the book’s first depiction of postmortem transformation.

2. Reflections on Gender Dynamics & Control

[03:30–10:47]

• Kristin’s Reaction to Chapter 10:

  • Relates personally to the controlling-wife character:

    “That's where I had, in all caps, convicted. CONVICTED.” (03:30)

    • Sees both misogynistic elements and uncomfortable truths echoed in modern relationship discourse.
    • Relates to social media trends about women “training” husbands, “quiet quitting” marriages, and ongoing debates about gendered household labor.
  • Shares about heteropessimism and polarization in young men and women’s attitudes.

    "There’s that current dynamic in culture where men are trending more conservative and women are trending more liberal.” (08:15)

• On Contemporary Marital Strains:

  • Highlights studies of housework inequality:

    “In heteronormative sort of relationships, women do more housework...the only time it comes close to even is when a woman has a full time job and the man has no job.” (09:36)

    • Dan notes it’s important to recognize aggregate data yet remember each relationship is unique:

      "You don't only want to make decisions about your own individual life based on trends of average people..." (10:12)

3. The Algorithm as Devil-on-the-Shoulder

[11:57–15:58]

• The Influence of Algorithms:
  • Dan compares algorithmic content suggestions to the allegorical lizard on the ghost’s shoulder:

    "In some ways the algorithm is like the lizard on the ghost's shoulder…potentially a devil on our shoulder." (14:40)

    • Algorithms feed us what we want to hear, quietly and powerfully shaping our thinking.
  • Kristin shares how algorithm-driven relationship content can bypass critical defenses by making users feel uniquely seen:

    "To feel that you are understood is so powerful...my defenses were down a little bit." (16:22)

  • They discuss the danger of getting language for problems via social media in a vacuum, which can escalate misunderstanding and blame.

4. Therapy-Speak & "Keeping Up" in Modern Times

[19:46–22:24]

• Therapy-Speak and Social Signaling:
  • Kristin draws a parallel between the wife’s "Keeping up with the Joneses" and today's culture of "therapy-speak" on social media:

    "Is there a bit of an Instagram-able, sort of therapy-speak keeping up with the Joneses...?" (19:46)

  • Dan acknowledges the point, noting subcultures use therapy language as a mark of enlightenment or in-group social status:

    "If it becomes a defining aspect of a group, then it will be used as an in-group/out-group signifier." (21:23)

  • Kristin:

    "I have a suspicion that that's a bit of what's going on." (22:21)

5. Personal Insights and Closing Thoughts

[22:25–24:06]

• Self-Reflection Inspired by the Book:
  • Kristin muses on the value of self-examination the text prompts in her own marriage:

    "Let me at least think of areas where this could be me...could I let a few things go?” (23:27)

• Dan closes with humor, referencing a famous lyric:

  “Life’s a highway, you're gonna ride it all night long or for eternity if CS Lewis is right.” (24:06)

Notable Quotes

• Kristin Tiedemann:

  • “In all caps: convicted. CONVICTED.” (03:30)
  • "To feel that you are understood is so powerful...my defenses were down a little bit.” (16:22)
  • “Is there a bit of an Instagram-able, sort of therapy-speak Keeping up with the Joneses...?” (19:46)

• Dan Koch:

  • "This may be the height of the latent sexism in the book." (02:27)
  • “In some ways the algorithm is like the lizard on the ghost’s shoulder…potentially a devil on our shoulder.” (14:40)
  • “If it becomes a defining aspect of a group, then it will be used as an in-group out-group signifier…because we kind of crave those things.” (21:23)
  • “Life's a highway, you're gonna ride it all night long or for eternity if CS Lewis is right.” (24:06)

Highlighted Timestamps

• 02:24 – Recap of Chapters 10 & 11
• 03:30 – Kristin’s “convicted” reaction & personal resonance
• 06:07 – Heteropessimism and political polarization in relationships
• 09:36 – Division of housework in modern couples
• 14:40 – The algorithm as a “devil on your shoulder”
• 16:22 – Power of digital “interpretive access”
• 19:46 – Pop psychology and “therapy-speak” as new social currency
• 23:27 – Self-reflection and applying the book’s lessons

Tone & Style

The conversation blends critical analysis, personal anecdotes, humor, and cultural commentary, staying conversational and candid—complete with the podcast’s signature “little bit of cussing” and self-aware asides. Both Dan and Kristin bring psychological and sociocultural expertise, weaving in current internet trends and relationship research with Lewis’s allegory.

For Further Discussion

• The gendered nature of modern (and historic) relationship struggles
• How algorithms influence self-perception and partner judgments
• The effects (positive and negative) of pop psychology’s democratization
• The ongoing need for reflective self-examination, beyond trends and algorithms

Patreon listeners can catch the rest of the discussion—including a dive into the theological implications—in the second half of the episode.