Podcast Summary: Religion on the Mind Episode #355: Cognitive Distortions & Religion, Pt 1: Should/Must Statements
Release Date: October 20, 2025
Host: Dan Koch
Guest: Laird Edmond, Research Psychologist

Episode Overview

In this debut installment of a new ongoing series, host Dan Koch and frequent guest Laird Edmond explore cognitive distortions—particularly the "should/must" statement—and their intersections with religious belief, practice, and psychological health. The episode investigates how these internal imperatives can be helpful or harmful depending on their grounding in reality and values, and examines their role in various religious contexts, spiritual abuse, OCD/scrupulosity, and cross-cultural perspectives.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining Cognitive Distortions (03:39)

• Cognitive distortions are described as exaggerated, irrational patterns of thought that "lose all sense of perspective" and become not merely inaccurate but even harmful (Laird, 03:39).
• Dan emphasizes how these are common, repeatable patterns and "not things that only unhealthy people do... everybody does some all or nothing, black and white thinking." (Dan, 04:14)
• The "should/must" distortion is chosen for this pilot episode because it can be both healthy (aligned with genuine values) and problematic (overbearing, unrealistic, or externally imposed).

Quote:
"I think that we ought to aim for a life giving balance somewhere in between the extremes of perfectionism on one side and total permissiveness on the other." — Dan (09:54)

2. Personal Examples of Should/Must Thinking (06:27)

• Laird shares examples from his own life: feeling he "ought" to golf better or refusing to play guitar for others because he isn’t "world class," resulting in missed opportunities for positive contribution and enjoyment.
• The hosts reflect on how these distortions foster either guilt/shame (when self-directed) or anger/frustration (when directed at others), and how they intersect with religious imperatives like "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect" (Matthew reference, 11:58).

Quote:
"I'm a good guitar player. I'm not a professional guitar player. I'm not world class, right? But I have defined good as world class. And therefore I'm not very good..." — Laird (10:19)

3. Healthy vs. Distorted Should/Musts (13:00)

• Healthy "should/must" statements are guiding, flexible, congruent with true values, and promote growth and connection.
• Distorted ones are rigid, unrealistic, or unattainable, leading to anxiety, paralysis, guilt, or social alienation.

Memorable Example:
A “good enough parent” approach versus perfectionism in parenting—illustrating the importance of compassionate, flexible standards.

Quote:
"Parents... it's a good example because everyone I know who's a parent has guilt about their parenting. ...That should/ought thinking... then just crushes us down." — Laird (17:35)

4. Other-Directed Shoulds: Moral Superiority & Resentment (18:30)

• When “should/must” is projected onto others/the world, it leads to resentment, frustration, and a sense of moral superiority (referencing psychologist David Burns).
• Example: a family member obsessed with lawn care judges others and herself, creating both self-imposed stress and social rifts (20:23).

5. Evolutionary Psychology Perspective (23:39)

• Human brains evolved to internalize social rules (“should/musts”) for group cohesion, survival, and cooperation.
• Our “hazard precaution” systems are tuned for false positives—meaning it’s safer, evolutionarily, to be anxious about fitting in and rule-following, even if it’s overblown.

Quote:
"The person who lives with a constant low hum of anxious dread of being separated from the group... probably stays with the group and survives and we get their genes..." — Dan (31:07)

6. Strategies for Challenging Distorted Should/Musts (34:43; 94:12)

Three main tools emphasized:

• Reframe the language: "I should" becomes "I'd like to," supporting values-based action vs. self-condemnation.
• Adjust the standards: Make them more compassionate, flexible, realistic.
• Seek supportive communities: Especially those (faith-based or otherwise) that foster grace, rather than perfectionism or legalism.

Brené Brown and David Burns are recommended as reading resources.

7. Cross-Cultural Considerations: Individualist vs. Collectivist Cultures (39:37; 48:04)

• Western (individualist) cultures emphasize autonomy, non-coercion, and personal values; collectivist cultures prioritize group well-being and obligation.
• Should/musts that seem pathological in the West may be normal or even healthy in collectivist cultures, and therapy should account for cultural context.
• Some traditional/conservative Christian groups (and other religious communities) have more collectivist shoulds/oughts.

Quote:
"In an individualist community we're afraid of ending up broke and destitute, so we hoard money... in a collectivist community there's a sense we all rise together, we all fall together." — Laird (45:18)

8. Spiritual Abuse and Should/Must Statements (52:42)

• Spiritual abuse often involves using religious authority to impose un-cashable “should/must” demands (e.g., "A true Christian should never feel depressed; if you do, your faith is weak." or "You should just pray harder instead of seeking counseling or therapy.")
• These pronouncements breed cycles of shame, fear, and guilt.
• Dan emphasizes churches’ responsibilities for transparency and clarity about requirements and expectations, advocating “clarity is kindness.”

Quote:
"That's really what we're talking about with the should/oughts that are not grounded in reality. ...That's like a check you can't cash." — Dan (55:47)

9. Christianity, Perfectionism, and Group Norms (70:29)

• Churches (like all groups) need some boundaries; issues arise when boundaries are unclear or are justified as representing God's will when they are community norms.
• The importance of clarity (e.g., stating "this is our policy") over theological absolutism, especially on contested issues like cohabitation, sexuality, or alcohol.

Quote:
“Clarity is kindness. Don’t dance around something because you’re afraid of hurting someone's feelings, because if you do, you are going to hurt someone more deeply.” — Laird (68:13)

10. Should/Musts, Perfectionism & Purity Culture (72:55)

• Notable Christian examples: Purity culture metaphors, Prosperity Gospel's demand for "enough faith," and legalistic theologies. These foster anxiety, self-blame, and sometimes joyless religiosity.
• Recognizing the mixed impact—“people did so much for me and harmed me at the same time.” (Laird, 75:25)

11. OCD and Scrupulosity in Religion—Across Faiths (75:34)

• Religious scrupulosity is religious OCD—anxiety-driven compulsions to fulfill every perceived religious duty, confession of every sin, perfect prayer, etc.
• Shows up in multiple faiths: Jewish (“keeping kosher,” Sabbath laws), Muslim (wudu purification, prayer correctness), Hindu and Buddhist ritualistic obsessions, and in Christianity (salvation assurance, ‘unforgivable sin’ fears).

Quote:
"There are Christians who actually don't talk about each other behind their back... There are actually people who just redo all of that stuff." — Laird (72:36)

12. Religion as a Source of Healing (97:48)

• All major traditions have mechanisms for grace, fallibility, and compassion—e.g., Christianity’s grace over law, Islam’s “mercy and ease,” Judaism’s flexibility for health/life, etc.
• For some, even broader, less structured spirituality or time in nature can be healing—a place with "no pressure to perform or be a particular way." (Laird, 104:33)

Quote:
"Finding a balanced and values-congruent middle between rigid demands and perfectionism... and just complete autonomy, individualist permissiveness... something like that." — Dan (107:02)

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On self-imposed standards:
  "I have defined good as world class. And therefore I'm not very good." — Laird (10:19)
• On distorted parenting standards:
  "Parents... feel like... they’re screwing up somewhere. And that should/ought thinking... just crushes us down." — Laird (17:35)
• On evolutionary basis for "should/must":
  "It only takes one time for that person to sort of have a false negative... and be wrong... Boom, you’re dead. ...The person who lives with a constant low hum of anxious dread... survives." — Dan (31:07)
• On spiritual abuse examples:
  "You should just pray harder instead of seeking counseling or therapy." (59:58 ff)
• One-sentence summary:
  “Aim for a life-giving balance somewhere between the extremes of perfectionism and total permissiveness.” — Dan (09:54, ~repeat summary at end)

Timestamps for Key Areas

• Definition, basic frame: 03:39
• Personal examples (golf, guitar, parenting): 06:27 – 17:36
• Other-directed shoulds: 18:30
• Evolutionary psychology angle: 23:39 – 34:43
• Three strategies for change: 34:43; revisit 94:12
• Cultural context: 39:37 – 49:44
• Spiritual abuse screener—examples: 52:42 – 70:29
• Purity culture, prosperity gospel: 72:55 – 75:34
• Religion & scrupulosity/OCD across faiths: 75:34 – 93:40
• Solutions, spiritual/religious resources for compassion and healing: 94:12 – end

Conclusion

This inaugural deep-dive into cognitive distortions in religious contexts delivers a richly layered, empathetic, and nuanced view of how "should/must" statements both guide and burden lives—across theology, therapy, culture, and personal history. Dan and Laird balance personal candor, practical suggestions, and scholarly insight, offering listeners both self-understanding and paths toward healthier, more compassionate ways of relating to themselves, others, and their faith communities.

Feedback and listener comments welcomed:
dan@religiononthemind.com

(End of summary)