Podcast Summary: Religion on the Mind – GenDERation Gap Culture Hour (#367)

Host: Dan Koch
Guests: Joy Vetterlein, Josh (producer), Tony Jones
Release Date: December 11, 2025

Overview

This lively episode of Religion on the Mind marks a special “GenDERation Gap Culture Hour”—typically a three-way generational roundtable blending humor, culture, and serious topics, now joined by Joy Vetterlein to add gender diversity and spice to the mix. The group uses personal stories, generational perspectives, and playful teasing to explore trends in spirituality, religious deconstruction, cultural artifacts like Spotify Wrapped, and the subtle ways our upbringings continue to shape us.

Main Discussion Topics & Key Insights

1. Crystals, Spirituality, and 'Spiritual but Not Religious'

• Kicking Off with Humor: Dan plays an Instagram comedy clip about LA “crystals people,” poking fun at New Age stereotypes and their supposed lack of financial “abundance.”
• Personal Practices: Joy and Tony admit to crystals in their homes but clarify their uses focus on presence and intention, not magic or material wealth.
  • Joy: “I just have them. I don’t know why...I don’t pray to them.” [06:57]
  • Tony: “There are a lot of crystals in this house, brah. And we own. We don’t rent.” [07:14]
• Broader Trends: Tony shares research revealing most Americans identifying as “spiritual but not religious” aren’t actually engaging in much spiritual practice—they’re “aspirationally spiritual.”
  • Tony: "…They're not actually practicing spirituality of any kind…one of the more fascinating revelations we've had…" [09:07]
• Religious Residue: The group discusses Daryl Van Tongeren’s theory of “religious residue”—how practices and mental frameworks can linger for years after people leave religion.

2. Personal Stories of Religious Residue and Deconstruction

• Experiences from Joy & Josh: Both describe involuntary “residue” from their evangelical upbringings that shapes their attitudes or needs seeking meaning, especially in parenting or the need for purpose.
  • Joy: “I literally said out loud to her, like, see, this is the part where, like, I wish I still believed in God…But even just the words, without the strong figure, had a significant effect…” [14:47]
  • Josh: “If there's anything that's religious residue, it's that I've had to sort of unlearn the deep desire to fill my life with all this purpose…” [16:10]
• Dan’s Perspective: Despite still considering himself religious, Dan notices a lingering compulsion to do “important” work that feels related to his religious background.
  • Dan: “It’s like—a certain itch that has to be scratched for me…” [17:06]

3. Spotify Wrapped and Generational/Cultural Self-Reflection

• Sharing Results: The quartet enthusiastically compares their Spotify Wrapped findings—the platform’s year-end music consumption stats, including their “listening ages,” total minutes, and top songs.
  • Dan: Skeptical about the “listening age” algorithm (“I’m 78…”) and reveals his top songs are mostly his son’s favorites: Foo Fighters’ “My Hero” and Metallica’s “The Memory Remains.” [26:24]
  • Tony: Despite talking classic rock on-air, his “listening age” is 28 due to a playlist of tonal, wordless movie soundtracks he writes fiction to.
    • Tony: “All of my top songs…are all like Hans Zimmer Dune…I’ve listened to it, I don’t know, 45 or 50 times…” [31:07]
  • Joy: “I am 22,” driven by carpooling kids and heavy doses of Taylor Swift’s new album. [24:03]
• Reflections on Identity: The group discusses how their listening habits (sometimes influenced by parenting) shape or reveal generational and cultural identities.
  • Josh: Top songs reflect tastes from EDM to bluegrass, with “real” age close to the “listening age” of 26. [23:51]
• Spotify as Social Ritual: Dan observes that Spotify Wrapped is a rare moment of collective cultural experience, with everyone participating—but in profoundly individualized ways.
  • Dan: “Spotify Wrapped is…the one moment in the year where people can feel like they're all doing the same thing together, which is using Spotify but for different things.” [28:21]

4. Soundtracks as Creative Fuel

• Writing Rituals: Tony details how looping Hans Zimmer (and similar) soundtracks helps him imbue his fiction writing with drama—applying writing rules like “always be escalating.” [29:50]
• Generational Jokes: The crew riffs about not knowing Hans Zimmer, with Josh quipping, “I'm more of a Randy Newman kind of guy.” [33:11]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Joy, on Parenting After Faith:

  “My daughter was worried about something and I literally said out loud to her, like, see, this is the part where, like, I wish I still believed in God, because if I did, I would pray for you…But even just the words without the strong figure, like, had a significant effect…” [14:47]

• Tony, Data on Spiritual Nones:

  “The biggest group of those nuns…consider themselves spiritual but not religious. But…very small percentage of them do [spiritual practices]. They call themselves spiritual but not religious, but they're not actually practicing spirituality of any kind…” [09:07]

• Dan, On Professional Purpose:

  “There are moments…the work that I'm currently doing…I'm like, is this a waste of my time? This isn't, like, really helping people…It's like a certain itch that has to be scratched for me…” [17:06]

• Tony, Writing with Soundtracks:

  “When you're listening to a Hans Zimmer soundtrack…holy fuck. Every song is so dramatic…It reminds me to make every scene I'm writing more dramatic…” [29:50]

• Spotify Wrapped Generational Surprise:

  Joy: “I am 22.”
  Dan: “What the hell? I thought it must be something with me…”
  Tony: “You were into music from the early 2010s with a hint of nostalgia? That's how it explained it to me.” [23:11–23:29]

• On The Inherently Fragmented Modern Culture:

  Dan: “It's all gotten so atomized, man.” [28:37]

Important Segment Timestamps

• [05:56]–[07:40]: Crystal humor and revelations of home alt-spirituality practices
• [09:07]–[14:05]: Data on “spiritual but not religious” Americans and the rarity of “deconversion”
• [14:47]–[17:06]: Joy and Josh relaying personal stories about religious residue
• [22:25]–[24:09]: Spotify Wrapped introduction and group’s “listening ages”
• [26:24]–[28:21]: Top songs, kids influencing stats, Joy’s Taylor Swift obsession
• [29:50]–[32:03]: Tony explaining his use of dramatic movie soundtracks for writing inspiration

Tone & Personality

The episode is fast-paced, joking, thoughtful, and refreshingly honest. The group teases and challenges each other, but are self-aware and open about their quirks, both musical and spiritual. Light profanity, Taylor Swift references, generational jabs, and personal anecdotes reinforce the podcast’s relaxed, authentic, and insightful style.

Next Steps

Patrons are promised an extended discussion on Taylor Swift—particularly Joy’s critiques of prior coverage—transitioning to a “patron-only” segment.

Contact the show: dan@religiononthemind.com
Support & extended episodes: patreon.com/DanKoch