Podcast Summary: Religion on the Mind

Episode #369 – Skillet’s Demonic Cover, AI Gospel Music & Trendy Sobriety: Religion On the News with Mason Mennenga

Host: Dan Koch
Guest: Mason Mennenga
Date: December 22, 2025

Overview

This episode of Religion on the Mind features host Dan Koch and recurring guest, theologian Mason Mennenga, in a lively roundup of contemporary intersections between religion, culture, and society. Labeled “religion on/in the news” (the debate about the episode's name itself serving as a running gag), the episode balances humor and serious critique around major topics: the supposed controversy over Skillet’s Christmas cover, the emergence of AI-generated gospel music, and the implications of Gen Z’s declining alcohol use. Additional themes include media literacy, the evolving use of technology in evangelical circles, and nuanced psychological and theological takes on social life and substance use.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Opening Banter: Midwest Self-Awareness and the News (03:01–04:43)

• Midwest Stereotypes: Mason self-deprecatingly embraces his identity as “passive-aggressive” and embodies various Midwest stereotypes, sparking a humorous exchange about self-awareness.
  • Quote:
    “I'm passive aggressive as hell. I don't know how to do a zipper merge on the highway. I am just a Midwest... kid in college that would wear shorts in the middle of January just because.” (03:11, Mason)
• Meta-Commentary: Dan jokes about deciding between the titles “Religion on the News” vs. “Religion in the News," musing about how news consumption has evolved beyond TV and newspapers.

2. Serious Story: Australia’s IS-Inspired Shooting (04:43–08:15)

• Summary of Events: Dan briefly reports on a mass shooting in Australia with apparent ISIS inspiration, highlighting nuances in media coverage and contrasting Australian and US approaches to gun control.
• Silver Lining: A non-jihadist Muslim man heroically intervened, lessening the attack’s severity.
• Meta-Musings: Dan and Mason touch on theological debates regarding God’s knowledge.
  • Quote:
    “Only God knows what's going to happen on the 22nd... if God knows. Which is a debated question amongst the type of theologians that we... are drawn to.” (04:39, Dan)

3. Christmas Music, Monoculture, and Skillet's "Demonic" Cover (08:32–22:32)

Christmas Music Preferences (08:32–11:12)

• Mason admits to being a “Christmas music purist,” advocating for December-only listening, and both hosts praise the Charlie Brown Christmas soundtrack as a rare point of cultural unity.
  • Quote:
    “It might be the only monoculture we have left is the Vince Guaraldi Charlie Brown Christmas album.” (09:54, Dan)

Skillet’s “Oh Come Emmanuel” and Manufactured Outrage (11:12–22:32)

• Context: Skillet, a massively successful Christian rock band, faces alleged “controversy” for a cover of "Oh Come Emmanuel" featuring guttural vocals and heavy guitars. Critics labeled it “demonic.”
• Manufactured Outrage: Mason investigates the outcry and finds it greatly exaggerated:
  • Only a handful of relatively obscure online personalities—one with just 2,500 followers—were actually upset.
  • Dan: “So... this story feels to me like a blast from 1995.” (15:55)
  • Mason suspects the band or its circle leaned into the controversy for publicity.
  • Both poke fun at historic hypocrisy in “policing” Christian bands:
    • Quote:
      “If we're gonna try and police Skillet... I would say, look, guys, I'm gonna tell you the truth. Jen Ledger, the drummer, her leather skirt ends more than 6 inches above the knee... Maybe this is a way to just distract from their slow cultural slide into sexuality...” (20:53, Dan)
• Serious Thread: Dan reflects on the long history—tracing back to jazz—of conservative Christians labeling certain musical forms and rhythms as “demonic,” regardless of lyrical content.
  • Quote:
    “The history of like fundamentalist and conservative Christians criticizing various forms of popular music as... inherently evil by nature, not of the content of the lyrics, but of... the way that the music actually sounds and moves.” (27:26, Dan)

4. Medievals, Morality, and the Evolving “Sound” of Worship (27:26–31:56)

• Moral Psychology: Both reference Jonathan Haidt’s “moral foundations” theory as a lens for why certain people are more unsettled by modern musical forms.
• Generational Divides: Mason recounts growing up in a church with “traditional” vs. “contemporary” worship services—choosing music “because how it sounds.”

5. AI Gospel Music Hits #1: Art, Authenticity & Technology (31:56–56:11)

The Salman Ray Story (32:59–33:39)

• AI-Generated Gospel: An AI-based gospel artist—Salman Ray—created by a Black producer, hits #1 in iTunes gospel charts.

Broader Implications (33:39–56:11)

• Evangelicals as Tech Adopters: Mason notes evangelicalism’s long tradition of embracing new technology if it serves “spreading the gospel.”
  • Quote:
    “Evangelicals, especially... compared to other, like... mainline Protestants, have always embraced technology... radio, tv, Internet, etc.” (34:59, Dan)
• Medium vs. Message: Dan invokes Marshall McLuhan (“the medium is the message”), arguing that the medium—the way the message is communicated—fundamentally changes religious experience.
• Quality vs. Message: Paralleling a classic critique, Mason and Dan discuss how “Christian music typically sucks” because it prioritizes message over artistic quality.
  • Mason: “A core part of the evangelical way of thinking... is the quality of the art doesn't matter. Or at least it’s secondary.” (39:13)
• Artist’s Take (Tyson Motsenbacher): Tyson, a musician and previous guest, contributes:
  • “Modern worship music makes people feel something and they think it’s God, but really it’s Coldplay… I don’t care about computers making these songs because I don’t think God was ever in them to begin with. I hope the computers come for country next. The computers are going to eat the unoriginal and I say more power to them.” (41:53, Tyson/Read by Dan)
• Corporate Worship Constraints: Writing for congregational settings has “constraints” that favor simplicity and repetition, which AI can mimic.
  • Quote:
    “If you're writing for a congregation, you have very specific constraints. The medium is going to mess with the message here.” (47:31, Dan)

6. Separating Art from Artist & The Nature of AI Creation (53:08–56:11)

• The debate arises: If we can separate art from problematic human artists, can we do so with AI art—even if it’s “better” than the creator could do themselves?
• It’s revealed that Salman Ray’s creator still composes the music, using AI for vocals—a nuanced hybrid rather than pure AI output.

7. Notable “Drive-by” Story: The Free Bible App (57:25–59:26)

• The creator of YouVersion/Bible app (Bobby Grunewald) declined to profit from it commercially, opting to keep it free for everyone—an “act of digital Robin Hood.”
• Dan and Mason playfully note that Grunewald looks like an AI-simple “Christian tech founder.”

8. The Rise of Trendy Sobriety in Gen Z (Decline in Alcohol Use) (59:26–82:32)

Article Discussion: “Is Declining Drinking Actually Good?” (59:26–66:08)

• Data Trends: Gen Z drinks, smokes, and even dates/hangs out in groups less than previous generations.
• Social Cost: Dan and Mason reflect on how alcohol, despite its negatives, has long served as “social lubrication” and a foundation for third spaces—bowling leagues, bars, churches, etc.
  • Quote:
    “What happens when a society gives up an imperfect but shared vice without replacing the social functions...?” (61:09, Dan)
• Blue Zones & Longevity: Mason references “Blue Zones”—places where people live the longest—highlighting how social connection is as crucial to long-term health as diet or exercise.

Social, Psychological, and Theological Takes (66:08–81:57)

• Social Lubrication & Risk: Alcohol lowers inhibitions, making risky social interactions (like meeting someone at a bar) more likely, arguably fostering stronger or at least more memorable social bonds.
• Alcohol vs. Cannabis: Cannabis, now on the rise, is less social and more introspective; less dangerous biologically but may further social atomization.
• Addiction Misconceptions: Alcohol is more chemically addictive; cannabis can be psychologically addictive.
  • Quote:
    “Alcohol is more biologically and chemically addictive... You can't die from cannabis withdrawal. But you can have cannabis withdrawal... It's psychologically addictive, just like gambling can be.” (79:55, Dan)
• Event Example: Theology Beer Camp—a real world example of community built “around the two things people have in common: theology and beer.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Manufactured Outrage:
  “It just feels like John Cooper... saw one account that was... Oh, you think that Cooper is like, hey... All press is good press, basically.” (19:45, Mason & Dan)

• On Evangelical Tech Adoption:
  “Evangelicalism has used technology, have been early adopters... I remember when the pandemic first started and all of these mainline... Protestant churches started using Zoom... and I'm like... Evangelicals have been doing that for like 20 years.” (35:06, Mason)

• On AI Music's Impact:
  “The computers are going to eat the unoriginal and I say more power to them.” (41:53, Tyson/Read by Dan)

• On Declining Party Culture:
  “I hear stories about college students... they don't party anymore. They just aren't engaging in the kind of behaviors that...engage you in a social setting that is going to... lead you to those kind of memories.” (78:58, Mason)

• On Social Connection’s Power:
  “One of the key factors... in all of these blue zones is incredibly strong social and communal life.” (65:18, Mason)

• On Sobriety and Theology Beer Camp:
  “You get 600 people at this event where the two primary interests... are theology and beer... [and] people... end up leaving with lifelong friendships.” (82:07, Mason)

Timestamps for Major Segments

• 03:01 – Midwest identity & self-awareness banter
• 04:43 – Australia shooting story and responses
• 08:32 – Christmas music, monoculture, transition to Skillet
• 11:12 – Skillet’s cover controversy & manufactured outrage
• 27:26 – History of “demonic” music criticism
• 31:56 – AI gospel music, tech adoption in evangelicalism
• 41:53 – Tyson Motsenbacher’s quote on AI worship music
• 47:31 – Constraints in writing corporate worship/congregational music
• 57:25 – Free Bible app, digital Robin Hood
• 59:26 – Atlantic story: drinking decline and social cost
• 66:08 – Social lubricants, alcohol vs. cannabis
• 78:58 – Atomization of social life, party culture decline
• 82:07 – Theology Beer Camp, community & alcohol
• 83:43–84:42 – Closing remarks and humorous sign-off

Tone and Style

• Conversational, irreverent, playful—with frequent asides, self-deprecating humor, and profanity ("fucking incredible" graphic design; “Skillet’s Morality”).
• Deeply informed but accessible: Both hosts deftly weave psychological, theological, and historical analysis with pop culture references.
• Inclusive of audience’s lived experience, frequently referencing shared cultural touchstones (holiday music, church dynamics) and listener perspectives.

Conclusion

This episode is a wide-ranging, intellectually playful engagement with current intersections of religion, pop culture, and technology. Using humor, personal experience, and sociological perspectives, Dan and Mason invite listeners to reflect on how the mediums and practices we often take for granted (music, technology, substances) shape — for better and worse — the ways we gather, worship, and relate to each other.