Bow Down: The Legend of Yvette Lee Bowser featuring Yvette Lee Bowser

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Bow Down: The Legend of Yvette Lee Bowser"

Podcast: ReLiving Single
Host: Hartbeat (Erika Alexander & Kim Coles)
Guest: Yvette Lee Bowser
Release Date: November 19, 2025

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Overview

In this special episode celebrating Living Single’s legacy, hosts Erika Alexander and Kim Coles welcome trailblazing creator Yvette Lee Bowser. The conversation explores Bowser's groundbreaking achievements—including becoming the first Black woman to create and run a primetime series, the deeply personal inspirations behind Living Single, and behind-the-scenes stories that shaped both the show and television history. The discussion is candid, lively, and full of laughter, revealing both the triumphs and struggles that defined Bowser’s journey as a creator, showrunner, and cultural icon.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Yvette Lee Bowser: The Trailblazer (04:21–05:24)

• Introduction of Yvette Lee Bowser:
  • First Black woman to create/run a primetime series at age 27.
  • Creator of five series: Living Single, The Wayans Brothers, Lush Life, For Your Love, and Half & Half.
  • "She wrote the blueprint before anybody handed her the pen." – Kim Coles (04:43)

2. The Origin Story of Living Single (06:06–10:21)

• Motivation Born from Adversity:
  • Bowser sought to create an inclusive work environment due to feeling isolated and marginalized in Hollywood.
  • “I suddenly became very eager to create my own show so that I could create my own work environment so women and people of color like myself could feel like they belonged in this industry.” – Yvette (06:09)
• Hollywood’s Hostility:
  • Contrasted supportive A Different World environment with the broader industry’s challenges.
• Fast-Tracked Opportunity:
  • Initial reluctance to develop right away, then rapid shift due to negative work experiences ("the oppression was oppressing" – Yvette, 08:10).
  • Inspiration to infuse her own friendships and experiences into the show.

3. Writing from Life: Vulnerability and Authenticity (09:36–14:47)

• Drawing from Real Life:
  • Characters Kyle and Overton are modeled after her real husband and his best friend.
  • "That’s top to bottom, my life. So I was being what I feel very good writers are, which is vulnerable." – Yvette (11:16)
• Pilot Rewrite Pressure:
  • Faced network resistance, required to rewrite the pilot in 10 days.
  • Stayed awake for three days straight before collapsing and being forced to rest by her cousin and boyfriend (now husband).
• Industry Double Standards:
  • Returned from rewrite to find male colleagues promoted in her absence (14:13). “Am I supposed to just be frustrated and disappear, or am I gonna use this frustration as fuel? I’m gonna use it as fuel.” – Yvette (14:44)

4. Building the Iconic Cast (15:36–20:16)

• Casting Power Moves:
  • Bowser insisted on being present at all pre-reads for auditions; did not want talent curated out before she could see them (17:14).
  • “While I trusted her, I wanted to trust her by her, with me by her side.” – Yvette (17:20)
  • Backstory on casting Kim Fields as Regine and John Henton as Overton.
• Assembling the Ensemble:
  • Emphasized creating the right balance of energy for the cast, inspired by her work on A Different World.

5. The Living Single Ethos & Episodes: Creator's Commentary

Personal Stories, Characters, and Themes

A. Episode “Judging by the Cover” (Pilot) (22:40–24:19)

• Inspired by Bowser's own life—her mother’s relationship with a married man.
• “So this is a story ripped right from my diary… I had a lot of feelings around that.” – Yvette (22:51)

B. Maxine Shaw: Non-Negotiable Strength (24:21–26:09)

• Network wanted the Maxine character removed for being too strong; Bowser refused.
• "To get rid of Max is to get rid of me. And I’d rather not do the show." – Yvette (24:45)

C. Naming the Characters (27:02–28:29)

• Names were intentional tributes: Maxine is a nod to Maxine Waters and attorney Nina Shaw; Sinclair combines influences from Kim Coles and a friend’s child.
• Khadijah is a regal, leader’s name inspired by a personal friend and the Prophet Muhammad’s wife.

D. “A Kiss Before Lying” (Ep. 104): Diary to Screen (29:53–33:55)

• Episode was directly based on Bowser’s diary about an ex-boyfriend.
• “So what’s it like telling a story about your ex? … Incredibly cathartic. And so much fun.” – Yvette (30:26)
• Discussed infusing characters with integrity and vulnerability, even in comedy.

E. “Just Friends” (Ep. 109): Friendships as Creative ‘What Ifs’ (39:32–41:01)

• The friends-to-lovers dynamic wasn't from her life, but inspired by real what-ifs and observed experiences.
• Creating room for life outside writing: “If you don’t have a life, I think it’s hard to write about a life that resonates with other people.” – Yvette (41:01)

F. “The Naked Truth” (Ep. 111): Male Friendship and Network Battles (43:08–47:45)

• Showcased value of male friendship; Overton and Kyle’s dynamic.
• Bowser refused to write “fat jokes” or storylines about the actors’ weight despite studio pressure (46:06). “They're not writing fat jokes. They're not writing fat storylines. … Thank you for that.” – Yvette (46:46)
• The challenges of managing, advocating, and negotiating as a showrunner.

G. “Burglar in the House”: Humor and Social Commentary (49:44–54:50)

• Tackled crime, fear, and city life, balancing comedy and topical issues.
• “I was determined to deliver my brand of comedy, which is comedy with social commentary.” – Yvette (52:31)
• Fun creation of “Doberman in a can” for cheap security.

6. The Power of Leadership & Representation (26:09; 47:45–62:47)

• “Leadership is one of the more important qualities… particularly as a black woman. I feel that we’re here to lead…” – Yvette (26:09)
• Navigating upward, downward, and lateral management as a showrunner.
• Living Single proved Black creative teams could lead, rate, and set trends in TV.
• “Living Single gave Black creatives proof that their stories mattered… that being in black business could mean being in the green business.” – Kim Coles (61:44)
• Bowser’s pioneering role opened doors for other Black creators in Hollywood.
• Candid about the absence of any “asphalt” (support structures) before her path (62:47).

7. Yvette’s Personal Journey: From Adversity to Purpose (56:09–63:06)

• Childhood marked by housing insecurity after moving to LA, living in motels with her family.
• Earned a place at Stanford University through hard work and academic achievement: “I was one of the first Black students to go from my public high school to Stanford University.” – Yvette (57:13)
• Experience as a “lone survivor” after her mother’s miscarriages, shaping her sense of purpose.
• Feels “powered from another dimension,” crediting both her twin and a sense of divine order for her resilience (63:06).

8. Creativity, Multicam Comedy, and Audience Connection (59:41–61:05)

• On writing with vulnerability: “If the scene I’m writing doesn’t make me cry, then it’s not gonna make any difference.” – Yvette (59:41)
• Praised multicam sitcom format for its immediate audience feedback: “They give you rhythm and you give it back.” – Yvette (60:25)
• Living Single outperformed expectations, “the golden arch” in its schedule, building audience numbers above established shows (61:05).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On carving out space:
  “I feel like if people like me who come from where I come from are going to survive and thrive in this industry, I might just have to be the one to create the environment.” – Yvette (08:44)

• On Maxine Shaw:
  “To get rid of Max is to get rid of me. And I’d rather not do the show.” – Yvette (24:45)

• On integrating her diary into the show:
  “So this is a story ripped right from my diary. … I’ve had to laugh through it to keep from crying.” – Yvette (22:51)

• On adversity in Hollywood:
  “The oppression was oppressing.” – Yvette (08:10)

• On Black leadership and creative ownership:
  “Living Single gave black creatives proof that their stories mattered and that they mattered in the mainstream.” – Kim Coles (61:44)

• On making space for vulnerability:
  “I was being what I feel very good writers are, which is vulnerable.” – Yvette (11:16)

• On showrunning and leadership:
  “When you’re a showrunner, you have to manage laterally… upward… and all the people who work for you. So it’s a big job. ... You hope that you get grace from everywhere.” – Yvette (47:08)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 04:21–05:24 – Yvette’s introduction and career milestones
• 06:06–10:21 – Bowser’s origin story, challenges, and motivation for creating Living Single
• 15:36–20:16 – Casting process and assembling the show’s ensemble
• 22:40–24:19 – Creating the pilot and inspiration from Bowser’s personal life
• 24:21–26:09 – The fight to keep Maxine in the show
• 27:02–28:29 – Meaning behind characters’ names
• 29:53–33:55 – Telling personal stories and blending diary into episodes
• 39:32–41:01 – Friends-to-lovers storylines and infusing real life into writing
• 43:08–47:45 – Male friendship, network interference, and advocacy for body positivity
• 52:25–54:50 – Creating cheap security gags and social commentary
• 56:09–63:06 – Childhood adversity, educational trajectory, and sense of purpose
• 61:44–62:47 – Impact of Living Single on Black creatives and Hollywood’s landscape

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Conclusion

This episode serves as a tribute to Yvette Lee Bowser’s vision, resilience, and leadership. Through candid storytelling and in-depth reflection, Bowser reveals the deeply personal roots of Living Single, her battles for authentic representation, and her influence in changing the landscape for Black creatives in television. Both insightful and entertaining, the conversation celebrates the show's iconic legacy and the woman who redefined what it meant to succeed—and lead—in Hollywood.

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For more behind-the-scenes stories, follow @ReLivingSinglePodcast and catch new episodes on all major platforms.

Transcript

[A]

Kim. And five, four, three.

[B]

All right. All right. We have come a long way, haven't we? We are near the end of our season.

[C]

Oh, my gosh. Okay. We've come a long way.

[A]

We have.

[C]

And we didn't just get here. I mean, it's been 30 years.

[A]

It's been 30 years. 32 and counting. Yes.

[C]

My God.

[B]

I gotta tell you, I'm a little bit exhausted, but I'm excited. Re watching all these episodes. It's been like a treasure chest just opening up all these beautiful little goodies.

[C]

And exhaustion looks good on you. You look make. You make exhaustion look good than. You know. We've had a lot of people come through. We've done a lot of things. You know, I think we should talk a little bit more about Yvette Leigh Bowser. We've mentioned her a lot, but, you know, I think we can talk some more about her. She's the creator writer of this show.

[B]

And at the time her name was Yvette Denise Lee.

[C]

She write. Oh, Yvette.

[A]

They're talking about little old me before I was a bowser blushing of meeting Yvette. Yeah, I do.

[B]

My first impression of Yvette was that she was, you know, very pretty, very bright and joyful and funny and super smart. And I was excited that we were gonna be getting be doing this journey together. And I don't remember where we met. I don't remember if it was a breakfast or I think it was over a meal.

[A]

It was at my house, Kimmy Kat. And I remember. Cause you had shrimp in your purse. It was lunch.

[B]

That's all I know. That was nice. And I just remember thinking, wow, this is the beginning of something amazing. And I felt like she had it okay.

[A]

Sounds like a damn rash.

[C]

She also had a motto.

[B]

She did. It was like sort of a north star vision of powerful female sister or sisters.

[A]

Kim. They were enviable female friendships.

[B]

Yeah, something like that. Something like that.

[A]

It's pretty simple.

[C]

It was her thing.

[B]

It was. What was your first impression of her?

[C]

All right, so I was in an audition, so I don't think I clearly sort of met her. And so I have to think back to the first time I met her is actually I heard her before I saw her because she has a laugh. It's unmistakable. And it's like a. More like a cackle. Like a Macbeth cauldron witch cackle.

[B]

And she uses it a lot and very freely. All the time.

[C]

All the time.

[B]

I know the cackle.

[A]

Why it gotta be a cackle?

[C]

Like, did Y' all play that was that.

[B]

Yvette, is that you?

[A]

Can you hear us? Yes. I've been watching y' all this whole time. We.

[C]

We didn't hear you right, because this.

[A]

Is the director's cut.

[C]

A direct. We have a director's cut.

[A]

A director's cut?

[C]

How.

[B]

How do we have a director's cut?

[C]

Is that like the DVD thing where, you know, you comment and we.

[A]

Well, I'm the creator of the show, so I do that. I pretty much do whatever I please. These are the perks.

[B]

Perks.

[A]

Okay, well, are you coming for reporting for duty? Yeah, I'm coming. Let's do this.

[B]

Enlighten us. Be with us. Yes.

[C]

Show yourself.

[A]

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[C]

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[A]

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[C]

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[A]

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[C]

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[A]

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[C]

Bentley Bowser.

[B]

Welcome to our little piece of the. A little piece of the Internet.

[A]

Hold. Hold that story. Hold the.

[C]

Okay, you all.

[B]

I need you guys to stop. Say it for the show.

[A]

Save it for the show.

[C]

Welcome back to Reliving Single, the official unofficial Living Single rewatch podcast. Kim, let's do this.

[B]

Let's do this.

[C]

Let's do this. It's time for our friends, our friends to meet Yvette Leigh Bowser.

[B]

Yvette, the icon, the boss, the history maker.

[C]

Come on. At just 27, she became the first black woman to create and run a primetime series. And the first black female writer to launch five series. Living Single. The Wayans Brothers. Lush Life for your Love and have and have. She's a WGA award winner, a wife, a mom, and a baseball fan.

[B]

Listen, she wrote the blueprint before anybody handed her the pen. Hear me.

[C]

From Philly beginnings to breaking Hollywood's glass ceiling, she shares her stories, battles and legacy that shaped her. If Living Single changed your life, meet the woman who changed that game. Wow.

[B]

She dreamed us up before the world was ready.

[C]

The creator, the writer, the real Maxine Shaw, please bow down for Yvette Leigh Bowser.

[B]

Now, look, she came with something, and it got something. Wow. Yvette Leigh Bowser is here, everybody.

[A]

Kimmy, Kat, thank you. The Mavericks.

[C]

Thank you.

[B]

We've come such a long way, and you've had this amazing career. And for all of us at Living Single, we love you, we adore you. We're so glad that you're gonna be here to tell your story, and we're so glad that you made it here.

[C]

That's right.

[A]

Of course.

[C]

That's right.

[A]

I've been really enjoying watching this show through your lens. Fascinating and fun.

[C]

We appreciate it.

[B]

Thank you.

[C]

I mean, you know, you put pen to paper and you created the way. And so we want to just level set and say, what is the origin story of how you come to Living Single?

[A]

I recently said that I came to create Living Single through a lot of adversity and perseverance. And that is my origin story. I was working in a very isolating situation, and I suddenly became very eager to create my own show so that I could create my own work environment so women and people of color like myself could feel like they belonged in this industry. Because I know that we belong in the world, and I know that we have a strong role and a lot to say and a lot to offer the world. So looking at the landscape of television and realizing that behind the scenes was not really for us, I knew that it was time that one of us created a show for us.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

That part. Yeah.

[B]

The original fubu.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

In this space. And then what happened? Then what happened?

[A]

So I was working on a show, and it was my first year after the very cozy enclave that was a different world. It was very female friendly, very black friendly. It was all of the things. And I knew that that was a rare, rare circumstance, but I didn't realize how hostile the rest of Hollywood was. That's really the truth. So my first few months out, I came to know exactly, kind of how unfriendly and how brutal it could be. But right after I left a different world, I'd taken some general development meetings with executives around town. And one of those executives was a delightful young man named David Jannollari. Who worked at Warner Brothers. Exactly. So I told David Jannollari I thought I'd be ready to develop, you know, in a year or two. I wanted to kind of just get on another show, see what that was like, be under some different kind of leadership and just get a lay of the land. Because I'd really only worked in this one environment, so I really didn't have any idea. And then two months into that situation, I went back to David. I said, I'm ready. It's time.

[B]

I'm ready now.

[A]

It's time. How did you hurry all the Oscars?

[B]

How did you know that you were ready?

[A]

Because the oppression was oppressing.

[C]

She said, look, man, let's make lemonade. You know what I mean?

[A]

Exactly. Exactly. And by that time, they had made talent holding deals with you and Dana. And I was like, oh, sounds like a black girl party. I'm down. When I met them, I was like, they're amazing.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

I can absolutely create a show for them about them that's also about me and my friends, which I'd been doing for the past, you know, the previous five years.

[C]

So you say opportunity meets divine boom, boom, boom together, and then y' all on your way.

[A]

Absolutely. But I wasn't sitting at a different world saying, oh, what am I gonna do next? I was thinking, how can I continue to fuel this amazing environment and really be present for this opportunity? And it wasn't like, oh, you know what? I want to be in charge. It wasn't that at all. It really wasn't that at all. This opportunity came to me, and my readiness for it came out of necessity, because I felt like if people like me who come from where I come from are going to survive and thrive in this industry, I might just have to be the one to create the environment for that to happen more frequently. That's because where I was was not it. It was not it.

[C]

Tell us about that process. Like, you know, I don't think many people know what it is to engage in something like that. And then for a show to not only, you know, to go, but be picked up and then be to series so quick, that's actually quite.

[A]

Yeah, that was. That was something else. I mean, I didn't have time to make anything up, for sure. I'm like, ooh, what's in my diary right now? What's my life right now? What do my friends look like right now? What do my friends mean to me right now? What. What processes, you know, psychological, emotional, and social am I going through in my life right now? For sure. Which is why the show also feels like a continuation of a different world, because it is life, the next step.

[C]

And it's fresh where you are right.

[A]

Now after college, some years later. Right? It's exactly that. After meeting Them. I went back into my little cave, my little house, into my office there and kind of cooked up the rest of the show. And then I had to pitch it to them, which was very nerve wracking. More nerve wracking than this actually.

[B]

And why was it nerve wracking?

[A]

Because it was the first time I'd pitched something on my own. That was my life. So if I got a no, it was gonna feel like massive rejection.

[C]

Right.

[A]

I mean, again, the guys. And you've spoken about how the guys are modeled after Kyle and Overton. The real Kyle, My husband Overton. His best friend. This was like September of 1992. I met Kyle and fell in love with him in May of what I.

[C]

Didn'T know he was 1992.

[A]

Correct.

[C]

And you put him in a show.

[A]

Absolutely.

[C]

You are generous.

[A]

It was my life in that moment. I told you I had to be expeditious about this. I had my time to make anything up.

[C]

You also branded him with a show 100%. Wow. You would love.

[A]

But I also unraveled all my other relationships and all my other business in the show. That episode four Generous. We don't talk about that. Right. The guy who packed his right duffel bag and left. That's you.

[B]

That's your life.

[A]

That's top to bottom, my life. So I was being what I feel very good writers are, which is vulnerable. Yeah.

[B]

And pulling from your life experience and pulling from what you already know so that you can infuse it in the work. And so I now I.

[A]

All these scenarios don't have to be exactly from your life, but the emotion does for it to be true and for it to resonate.

[C]

But you saw a little bit of story about this. Warner. Sorry. The wga we all went when you got the Paddy Chayefsky Award. And you talked about this period where you had a certain amount of time to get the script together and how you worked. And so can you tell us a little about that? So people who hadn't watched that can understand 100%.

[A]

I wrote the script. Everybody at the studio and the network was on board. You know, there were a couple of drafts for sure. And then it went through the process where the day to day executives end up giving it to the person at the top who gets to either say yay or nay. The person who gives the green light. And that was when I met with Resistance. They wanted a different pilot story because it was too much of a premise pilot. Meaning that it was kind of didn't feel like just any episode. It Felt like we were just meeting these people. There were elements of that which, you know, anybody could have told me earlier in the process, but they didn't. It's fine. I can't remember exactly what month it was, but I know I was given roughly 10 days, maybe two weeks to rewrite a whole new pilot. Wow. And during that time, this is the story that I shared at the WTA. At the WTA, there were. I was, like, so determined to turn this thing around because going back to my previous job or anything that even had that kind of energy was not an option for me. I really felt like there's no place for me in this business unless I carve out this place. So I was very, very determined. So I literally stayed up for three days straight. The first three days. And my cousin Lisa, who's one of the inspirations for Sinclair, she came to me and she said, do you know that you're, like, psychologically, physiologically brain dead at this point? Like, you cannot stay up this long? And I was like, yeah, I am starting to feel a little different, a little odd.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

And she. And my husband, Kyle. Kyle was like, sweetie, he's just your boyfriend still. He's just my boyfriend, but he's like, sweetie, we're laying you down with that deep voice.

[C]

That's true. That Kyle's like, you know, I'm taking over now.

[A]

Right, Exactly. So they put on some classical music, and they made me take a nap, and then I woke up from that nap. And then I thought that probably was.

[C]

Like, what, two days long, that nap?

[A]

No, that nap was probably like, rubble.

[C]

Still.

[A]

Skin is four hours.

[B]

And I got back up refreshed, and back to.

[C]

You just kept it going.

[A]

And I just kept going until I turned that script in. And I was so proud because I knew I was going to get that script in on time. I was like, phew. All right, it's done. Then I go back to work on the show that I was on, and I go to rehearsal on stage, and I take note of two of the director's chairs on stage, and our director's chairs for rehearsal used to have our names and our titles. And I noticed that two white guys who had the same title that I had before I went off to rewrite this pilot for the studio had been promoted in my absence, and that was.

[B]

You've been gone how long?

[A]

I was gone for a week. I had one week off of the show. I had two weeks to rewrite the pilot, and I had one week off of the show.

[B]

Did they know why you had Taken time off.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

And so you come back, and now they slide. Your names are off, and new names are on.

[A]

My name is still there, but their titles have been elevated.

[C]

Y' all want to know the cold truth? Boy.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

So now I'm like, what am I supposed to take from this? Am I supposed to just be frustrated and disappear, or am I gonna use this frustration as fuel? I'm gonna use it as fuel.

[C]

Come on.

[A]

So that's when I doubled down on my efforts and I met with Kim Fields. Cause I'm like, if I get this made, I'm going to cast the shit out of it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm gonna cast it so perfectly. The chemistry is gonna be just right. So I was really. I was already starting to figure out the balance. Like, what is the balance of energy? And the gift was that I already had, you know, two bosses, two badasses, and I knew what their energy was, you know? So I'm trying to figure out, like, how to create another magical ensemble like the one I came from on a different world. There absolutely is a balance. There's balance, there's symmetry. All of these things are really important to storytelling. And so I met with Kim Fields in my office. She actually wanted to meet with me about a show that she wanted to do, kind of a Black Mad about yout.

[B]

I remember you telling me that for the Regine character, I'm thinking of Kim Fields. And I was like, ooh, that's interesting. Because now she's grown up. She's no longer Tutti. She's, you know, she started doing other roles and other things. And I was like, this character is okay. You said, no. She's. No, this is gonna be great.

[A]

And Tudi's all grown up.

[B]

Of course. Of course. But I didn't see her that. I saw her as this, you know, Swee. And here she is, this vixen, and she. And you told me she is so ready for this, Right?

[A]

And that was me with my producer hat. Like, I could see.

[B]

Now, this is all. While you're still waiting for them to give the final yes. So you're aligning all of your soldiers, all of your. All of your. The whole experience.

[A]

And then they now have the new script, and then they're like. They call me back pretty quickly.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Because again, the window's closing, so we either have to do it or not do it. And they call me back, and they say, we're going to shoot this.

[C]

What did you do that day? Cause I know that day you were dancing. Wouldn't you really?

[A]

Say, did you flip the director's chest with their names on it?

[C]

I was.

[A]

A boyfriend came to my office. How about that?

[C]

So, come on, seal the deal, you scandalous scandal.

[A]

You have to celebrate space for that.

[B]

Yes, it is indeed. Indeed. I hope so. So how did you find then?

[A]

I did something which was a little interesting and bold. Which was? I asked Geraldine Leiter, who was our casting director. The studio assigns a different casting director to every show if I could sit down on the prereads. Because usually the casting director will have pre reads where they see different actors and then they'll decide who goes to producers. So there's several steps. I didn't want to miss anybody.

[B]

You wanted the whole.

[A]

I didn't want to miss anybody.

[C]

You didn't want them to, you know, curate it and then give you this.

[A]

Exactly.

[C]

You didn't know who did make that cut.

[A]

While I trusted her, I wanted to trust her by her, with me by her side. I totally trusted her. And she had terrific taste and she helped us get so many great guest stars. And obviously, you know, she found.

[C]

And her sister is Mimi Leader, the director.

[A]

Exactly. And brilliant. She's. She's just brilliant. That's why I remember. How nice. But I'm saying she was open to it. She could have said no. By the way, little known fact. I actually had seen John in a showcase the year before and I had asked for him to come in.

[C]

John in la?

[A]

Yes. When he came in with that tool belt on, as he said here, that.

[B]

Story he tells, he figured out you were the Yvette Lee Bowser or Yvette Denise Lee that was on the list. And he said, I need to play to her.

[A]

Right. And then this amazing woman comes in and I'm like, oh, that's her. That's right.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And I don't.

[A]

It's all starting to make sense. You would not know what happened. And then TC gave us a tape. He sent in a tape. He sent in a vhs, which I'm still digging for in my storage. I was hoping I could find it by today, but I don't have it. But he sent in a tape and I was like, wow, interesting, because he was giving me so much Kyle Bowser energy, including that bossofondo.

[C]

Bosso, FA fondo.

[A]

That very sharp dresser.

[B]

All the things, all of it.

[A]

Just energetically, there was a lot there that felt like family.

[C]

Now you've gathered your actors, you have the. Okay, the green light from the studio. You're gonna shoot this and then you're gonna.

[A]

We're gonna shoot this now. We're gonna cast this. Then they say, but you know what? You haven't done this yet. So they sat me down with a very nice man, Tom Anderson, who's still my dear friend, and he was gonna run the show with me. And he was like, I don't know about this. Did you know? But this is a terrific script. I didn't know him at all. We met in Les Mumbez's office in Warner Brothers, and he said, sometimes these arranged marriages don't work. We're hoping this one does.

[C]

What was the match that they thought it would be a good thing for him to join you?

[A]

I can't really tell you, other than the fact that he had co run Cheers the last few seasons. Oh, that's so smart. He was very funny. No, he's a very funny guy. Very smart guy. And he seemed to be down for the assignment to guide an up and coming writer. And so he came into the process while we were actually taking all of the actors to Fox. He's from Ohio. He'd actually been a standup. So he had been on the comedy circuit with John Hetton. So he walks in and he sees John Hetton. He goes, don't mess this up, man.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

And that was his first day officially, like, on the show. Producing the show with me was when we were casting at Fox.

[C]

Yvette, before you came, we asked you for your top five Living single episodes from season one that are most important personally or thematically. And so we'll use those markers to, like, take this season one journey with you.

[A]

So they made me choose between my babies.

[B]

Choose all your babies.

[C]

They made me choose with a pilot. Let's go.

[B]

It's time for the rewind where we watch and relive living single with you.

[C]

I just came back from the newsstand. Flavor magazine is completely sold out. You feel featured article was inspired Girl. Dope title, huh? Dating married men. The sleeping dog that larks. Well, it sounds great. What's it about?

[A]

You gonna have to read it.

[C]

You listen to wjam.

[A]

We jam radio. That's me. That's your voice.

[C]

What's your voice? Where?

[B]

The announcement. The announcer.

[C]

Oh, really?

[A]

We jam Radio.

[C]

I didn't even know that.

[A]

On a cloudy day. Wait a minute. I love those pajamas so much. Great. That's where it started right there. Those two. Why am I doing my boot at your butt?

[C]

That butt is unnatural.

[A]

This is exactly how it was built, though. And then this one came.

[B]

There you go.

[C]

How nasty.

[B]

I could think of the GERMS.

[A]

That was your choice.

[C]

That it was.

[A]

The toilet brush was not scripted by moi.

[C]

I. I made sure it was clean.

[A]

My girl, my girl, my girlfriend dance. It's so perfect.

[C]

I love the slow motion that goes.

[A]

That's why.

[C]

Come on, Yvette. Denise Lee. Roxy Wink Evans. Gosh, Lord, look at all these names. So that's the pilot from season one, episode 101, judging by the COVID In it, Regine proudly brings home her new boyfriend, but Khadijah and Sinclair discovered he is married. As they struggle with how to tell her, we see the core friend begin to take shape, mixing humor, honesty and loyalty in a way that sets the tone for the entire series and begins to test your motto and theory about enviable female relationships.

[A]

Yes. You want to know where that pilot story idea came from?

[C]

Come on, let's do this. Let's do this. Tell us about creating the pilot. Judging by the COVID that's what they just got a piece of.

[A]

When I was a little younger than when I was creating Living Single, my mother was dating a married man and I had a lot of feelings around that. So this is a story ripped right from my diary. And my approach to writing the show was kind of starting with me, obviously, characters that also were infused with you guys, but me in conversation with myself about that topic, like, how important is it to be in a relationship that you would kind of set your integrity and your morals aside to be with someone else's man? So that's what I was exploring personally and emotionally.

[B]

We didn't know that.

[C]

We didn't know.

[B]

There's no way I would have known that that was exactly out of your life. So thank you for being so generous.

[A]

I needed something quick. I needed something real. I literally was like, wow, Yeah, I had a lot of feelings around that. That's gonna give me lots of points of view. There's. I mean, I've had to laugh through it to keep from crying.

[B]

And you just know that people would resonate with that because that's the topic that people.

[A]

Absolutely, because.

[B]

Thank you.

[C]

But also, at the same time, you wouldn't have talked maybe more about it because your mother was alive at the time and you would want to protect her and it's not going to come out.

[A]

And of course, we all know people who have dated people who were married for sure. And so again, and the title was Judging by the COVID because I knew that when it was happening, I was feeling very judgmental about it, for sure.

[C]

Of course.

[B]

I want to talk a little bit about you saying that you are the Maxine Shaw character and that on the page, initially they said she's too strong. What did you do to. Because it could have said get rid of her, but you wouldn't get rid of her because you've said so many times that this is you. So how did you manage to incorporate her so powerfully and create carve this special place for her?

[A]

So I had to trust my intuition that when I got the note back before I had the 10 days, two weeks to rewrite the whole pilot, that Maxine Charles character was a little strong on paper. And they asked me if I could get rid of that character. I said, to get rid of Max is to get rid of me. And I'd rather not do the show. Shut it down, shut it down. But let me come up with something. I was like, she's got her own bag, she can have her own apartment, she can live across the street. And then she's just gonna come over and help herself to their clothes. Their men offer unsolicited advice, lots of.

[B]

Commentary, save us some time, be the.

[A]

Straw that stirs it up. And you know, she's gonna have lots of great, you know, multi cam comedy entrances where she comes barreling in and just takes over the space, which is actually a gift.

[B]

Oh, what it must have.

[C]

Now to this day I enter like no one's business and exit too.

[A]

But also you kind of doing it.

[C]

As like to save the character.

[A]

Yes, but also subliminally to say that we belong in any space we choose to occupy. So her choice to come across the street was very intentional and meaningful.

[B]

What this sounds to me like is leadership. So what did you learn about leadership in this, in creating this, and leadership not only of a show, show running, but leadership of yourself to trust yourself. What did you learn about leadership that maybe you've even continued to use?

[A]

I really do feel that leadership is one of the more important qualities that any of us can have. Like you have to be the leader of your life. And that particularly as a black woman. I feel that we're here to lead, I really do. So I thought it was my responsibility to step up. I mean, as you know, we talked about Tom coming onto the show and if you look at the credits, you'll notice that for the first 13, which is usually the initial order for a show, and then we're all working very feverishly hoping to get that back. Nine by the back. So he was an executive producer. My title was co executive producer, even though we were running the show together by the back. 9. I was an executive producer.

[C]

I noticed that by that time they trusted you fully.

[A]

Right. Because they saw that I was doing the work, and I trusted myself.

[C]

Now, look, you're Maxine Shaw. Maxine Shaw's name. Let's deal with names now.

[A]

Maxine Shaw. Maxine Waters. And Nina Shaw.

[C]

And Nina Shaw. Let's go with that. So Nina Shaw is.

[A]

Nina Shaw is my attorney and has.

[C]

Been my pioneering since 1990. Attorney, yes. Badass. Yeah. And so there's her last name and Maxine Shaw.

[A]

Maxine Waters. Exactly.

[B]

Perfect.

[A]

I was obviously, a lot of Kim was in Sinclair. I mean, all the characters are amalgamations of individuals that I know.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

In this case, Sinclair and Khadijah are amalgamations of myself, plus them. Plus.

[C]

But you also know another Sinclair. Not Sinclair. I know manager, but there's a playwright.

[A]

That I work with on a different world. Her name is Judy Ann Mason. Her daughter's name was Mason Sinclair. And I just thought that was the most beautiful name and a tribute to my friend Judy Ann for sure.

[C]

Departed for sure. You're very intentional about the names. Very spiritual about the names. So tell us about Khadijah, the names, at least. We talk about Sinclair. But Khadijah.

[A]

But Khadijah is a leader. Khadijah is a first. And my friend Khadijah, Muhammad and Muhammad had Muhammad the prophet. His wife was Khadijah. Yeah. And I was like, this is so regal, and it's so right.

[C]

It's early born.

[A]

It's trusted. Ladies first.

[C]

Respected.

[A]

Right.

[C]

It was what Latifah was.

[A]

Early born is first. Another way of saying first. So I'm like, ladies first. I'm listening to the ladies first on a loop. Yes. I'm like, when she said that to me that day, like, I'm not sure about that name. I was like, no, I'm sure. Let it cook. I'm sure.

[B]

Marinated.

[A]

But that's also. How do you lead? Do you say, you know, let it cook, let it marinate. Like, you don't say, no, this is the name. I'm creating the show. You say, let's let it rise. See if you feel the same way.

[B]

She can't imagine because she was hearing.

[A]

The name for the first time.

[C]

All right, so we got to get on our way and watch this next episode. You know, I have to be honest with you. I was a little unsure about coming over here. It could have been a little uncomfortable. But you guys.

[A]

But, baby, I knew it wouldn't be.

[C]

Cause everybody's happy with who they are.

[A]

I got my woman.

[C]

Max has her, man.

[A]

I mean, starting lineup again. Max, you'll get where you want to be someday.

[C]

Someday, baby.

[A]

You didn't tell him My girl just made partner.

[C]

Well, okay. Was I surprised when that happened? And the first African American woman ever. Cause you know that Claire Huxtable wasn't real.

[A]

And then, let me tell you, Max is being groomed for the Supreme Court, okay?

[C]

Has a meeting with Clarence Thomas next week.

[B]

To Max.

[A]

To Max.

[B]

Enough.

[C]

Enough. This is crazy. Greg Kyle is not my boyfriend. I'm not a partner at my firm. I've never been anywhere near Paris. But none of this is reason enough for my friends to see. Trying to make my life seem better than it is by lying to you.

[B]

This is episode 104, a kiss before Lying. When Max's ex boyfriend, Greg, who ghosted her without a word and packed his little raggedy duffel bag, as I recall, calls unexpectedly and invites her to dinner. She accepts, despite Khadijah's concerns. The twist, he's bringing along his new fiance. Ooh, we had so much fun on this episode.

[A]

Yeah, I had so much fun.

[B]

It was so, so good. So this is based on, again, your diary.

[A]

That's right.

[C]

Inspired by your own diaries. So what's it like telling a story about your ex? Your ex that's entirely pulled out of your diary?

[A]

Incredibly cathartic. And so much fun. So much fun. So much fun. And this was the first episode that was really kind of top to bottom, my story. And of course, Robert and Danny did a fabulous job writing the draft. You know, we talked about it in detail, but it was like, it was a really, I would say, exciting room process to talk about that and to see how, what would we pick from this story? But also, I loved how we were able to really pull out some of the very intentional things that were set up in the pilot. Because, remember, more than once in the pilot, Max says, packed his raggedy double wax and left. So to be able to water those seeds that had been planted, I was like, we're really. We're doing it. We're really doing it. We're doing it at a very high level.

[B]

And there's something that Robert Horne talked about when he came and did the show that I thought was really powerful was he talked about her integrity. And in this moment, she could have continued to play like, Kyla's my man and everything's fine, but she stopped it all to go. Actually, this is not the truth. And these friends are all building me up to make My life better than. Than it is. And it actually is really good. And I just love that you infused her with that integrity. Can you talk about that?

[A]

That's exactly right. I mean, at the end of the day, we have to be who we really are. We have to live our truth. And that's what I've done in television for the last 38 years, is literally just be vulnerable and tell my truth, but also be proud of who I am. And, you know, to try to create characters, I think, that present us not as perfect, but at least maybe striving for something that feels like our highest selves, you know? And I think those people who are striving for their highest selves more often than not lean into integrity as a real important quality.

[B]

And there's so much to play with there that he was willing to. Even though they had been sniping at each other, he was willing to come along and care for her and care.

[A]

For her, which was. Those guys were there to support and take care of those ladies and to love on those ladies in various ways, from the platonic to the romantic.

[C]

He was also a demon. Don't try to build him up, child.

[A]

Stop playing.

[C]

He was smacking our ass and all that.

[A]

I mean, but that's Spanish.

[C]

It's cathartic for you, but you have a real boyfriend who understands that. What did that boyfriend think about this episode?

[A]

What did my boyfriend. What did my ex boyfriend. Oh. Oh, he loves seeing himself.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

He loves seeing himself. To this day, he will call me and say, oh, was that me in this show? And I'm like, no, Boy, you're so vain. I bet you think this story's about you.

[B]

And listen, you chose a handsome, amazing actor to play him, so, yeah, he should be delicious.

[A]

But, you know, we have fun like that.

[B]

Okay, so. And you're still in touch with me?

[A]

We're still friendly. Sure. So no.

[C]

No regrets? Any regrets about the boyfriend?

[A]

No.

[C]

Because it taught you something.

[A]

No, no, exactly. I mean, like, I. Throughout my life and throughout my storytelling, I try to turn, you know, adversity into advantage. And I did spend some number of years with him, thinking he was the one. And then he packed his raggedy duffel bag and left. But isn't exactly true. That's the comic version of it. What really happened was that something happened in his career that I knew didn't go the way he wanted it to go. And I could tell that emotionally, he wasn't gonna be up to the task of being in a relationship. So I, like, knew it was gonna. I knew it was over.

[C]

Were you heartbroken? Like, past the thing? It was a real relationship.

[A]

We were. I was heartbroken. And, yeah, I invested a lot of time. A lot of time, a lot of love, you know? But I was hopeful that there was something else. And there was. Sure enough, there was.

[C]

Sometimes you gotta let it go so the new thing can come in.

[A]

After that, I met a Morehouse man on our reconnaissance trip for a different world. I dated him and many others, which have played out in episodes like when Khadijah is joining us.

[B]

More Diary. More Diary.

[C]

That diary is the creator of the.

[A]

Show may have had a couple windows of time where she was juggling. Guys, listen, listen.

[B]

Why wouldn't you? Look at.

[C]

You're only 21. Kim, I do everything out of my car. I do everything. It's my office, it's my studio, it's my nap pod.

[B]

And shockingly, not where we're recording this podcast.

[C]

Don't spoil season two. Oh, but seriously, I take my calls, I write scripts. I do table reads. All from the car.

[B]

I know. I do the same thing. My car is like my home, just with better acoustics and less judgment. You know I don't sing.

[C]

I do. I do. And that's why your car can't just be functional. It has to fit your whole vibe.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

And Lexus understood the assignment. I mean, I'm talking about the lx.

[A]

Woo.

[B]

Luxury to the max. There's poor wood trim, massaging seats, and. Wait a minute. Retractable ottoman?

[C]

Come on, a whole ottoman, y'. All. Plus, it's hybrid, so it's smart, sustainable. And the storage. Mm, Chef's kiss. I even have a table for writing.

[B]

And it's a rolling sanctuary that helps you move through life with excellence.

[C]

And, you know, Lexus has always been excellent, even back in the 90s. Just like us.

[B]

Because that's the standard of amazing. The holidays are here, and that means company's coming. But don't you worry. Wayfair's got you covered. From cozy linens and extra seating to festive decor and cookware. Well, they've got everything you need to make your home shine. And right now, you can score up to 70% off during Wayfair's Black Friday sale. Now, I gotta tell you, I went a little far down the Wayfair rabbit hole the other night. I don't want you to judge me, but let me tell you, the selection is fantastic. From sofas to spatulas, they've got it all. I was bookmarking cozy throws and bold accent chairs and the cutest serveware that will make my sweet potato pie look extra fancy. And the best part? Well, Wayfair ships fast and easy and even on the big stuff, so your space can be holiday ready in no time. Now, what I love about Wayfair is that nothing feels cookie cutter. They've got styles you won't find anywhere else, so your home feels uniquely you. Plus if you join their new loyalty program where you get 5% back on every purchase, free shipping and special member only sales. Now that's what I call some holiday cheer. I don't want you to miss out on the early Black Friday deals, so head to Wayfair.com now and shop Wayfair's Black Friday deals for up to 70% off. That's WAA Y F A I R dot com. Sale ends December 7th. I think we should go shopping.

[C]

Cooler days are here and baby, that means layers. Good layers. And for me, that means quints. They're $50 Mongolian cashmere sweaters, soft as a whisper and fine as fall line. The premium denim fits like it was tailored by somebody who knows you personally. And don't get me started on the wool coats. I'm eyeing their oversized peacoat and navy designer vibes, but for a fraction of the price. Here's the thing. Quint works directly with ethical factories and skips the middleman so you get luxury quality for way less. It's smart, it's sustainable, and it looks damn good. I've got their cashmere crew neck on rotation. And that mulberry silk robe. Well, let's just say my mornings are upgraded. Find your fall staples at quints. Go to quints.com single for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com single.

[A]

Hello friends. Guess who?

[C]

That's right, it is I.

[A]

The replacer once again up in called on so you can play their new Call of Duty Black Ops 7 with three expansive modes, 18 multiplayer maps, and the tastiest zombie gameplay you've ever freaking seen. Call of Duty Black Ops 7 available now. Rated M for mature. You ever want something but just don't have the time to devote to it? Do I?

[C]

This magazine has become my whole life. Ooh, he pushing up that much time for anything else?

[A]

He pushing up, but I guess it's been worth the sacrifice. We made it.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Pretty much got everything we wanted, didn't we?

[C]

At the job?

[A]

Almost. What was that. Okay.

[B]

She always gets soft. And then my clothes fell off.

[A]

And.

[C]

The camera pushes in.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

That was from just friends, episode 109, where Khadijah reconnects with her childhood friend Scooter and their friendship unexpectedly shifts into a romantic territory. After they spend time together, she worries that the intimate moment might jeopardize their long standing bond.

[A]

Yes. I love that happen to you.

[C]

You was up there getting it on in the office.

[A]

Come on. No, I'm not suggesting. Well, didn't I kind of. No.

[C]

Too many.

[A]

Not with a friend.

[B]

But friends to lovers is the theme here.

[A]

So one of the things we do as writers is we look at the world and we come up with a series of creative what ifs. And I certainly had my fair share of really close male friends that I inquired about, at least in my mind. Might have kissed once or twice, but never really had a close friend become my lover like that. But I have had my. I guess my. Well, Kyle's my best friend. Yeah, Kyle Bowser's my best friend.

[C]

So I don't know how you have.

[A]

My time, but I think it started out like it did. But it definitely started out as romantic interest. We became friends and lovers.

[C]

How do you have the time to be dating like this in offices and getting down with folks left and right?

[A]

I'm a multitasker.

[B]

Or the object of.

[A]

Desire.

[C]

But I love it.

[A]

I think, you know, I was a good planner.

[C]

I get.

[A]

And I planned my social life and I pulled a lot of late nighters with my work and made time for my social life. If you don't have a life, I think it's hard to write about a life that resonates with other people.

[B]

Maybe that's the Gemini in you that you needed to create this separate life.

[A]

You have to create that space. But I will tell you another. Another little hack that I had back in the day.

[B]

Do tell.

[A]

What was that? There were times when I would go into that creative cave and I might not, you know, really hang out for a few months. And then I would throw a spectacular cookout or a party. And that would hold people over for a while, right?

[B]

Like bring them to me. Bring all of the.

[A]

But they remembered the fun they had, right? And they were like. And then I'm being attentive to my guests. We had the best time. And that would hold them over until the next big tour.

[B]

You go back into the cave and come back out again. That's a great idea. Bring all the fun.

[A]

I would have at least two or three big parties.

[B]

But you know what?

[C]

I think women especially need to be reminded that you don't have to wait for someone to come to you. You can invite people in.

[A]

Absolutely.

[C]

And on your terms. So I think that that's powerful.

[A]

And I am a girlfriend's girlfriend, so my girlfriends were incorporated into my work.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

You know, like, we would literally go out and be social, and that's part of the work. Right. And then we go. Then go home and. And they knew it. They all knew it. And we treasure the time we have together.

[C]

We got another episode.

[A]

We got another.

[B]

We're learning. So let's do another episode.

[A]

There's even more. More.

[C]

I'm gonna go and shave.

[A]

Good idea, Overton.

[C]

We have a bathroom for that.

[A]

You know, it's funny how every household.

[C]

Has their own rules.

[A]

But your hand, your hand. That physical comedy.

[B]

I will be in the bathroom. Thank you.

[C]

Oh, here it is. I love the little cuts foot.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Look at Dana's legs. Gorgeous.

[B]

Shower cap on the cap.

[A]

I love that he has a scrubby.

[B]

And aloofa episode 111, which happens to be my birthday. And one of my favorites too. The Naked Truth. When Overton and Kyle have a heated disagreement, Overton temporarily moves in with the girls. His presence quickly begins to drive them a little cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs and up the wall. And things get even more awkward when he accidentally sees Khadijah naked in the bug. Wow. So can I just say, when John was here, he, you know, he. We watched this episode together, and he talked about a moment that he had with the. Looking at it like, ah, oh, ah. And that you all discussed. Well, no, let's take out this. This ogling, this little sexual moment. Cause it was not sexual. It was just two friends seeing each other in this state that they shouldn't. So can you talk about. Do you remember that moment? Okay, so talk about that.

[A]

More things that people don't know, but what people don't realize is just, like, the development process where there are people at various levels. There are people at various levels in the process for every episode, of course. And they get to see cuts before the world sees the cuts. And someone thought that was too salacious. And we're like, this is not a hill I'm gonna die on.

[C]

No.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Not worth it. Not worth it. But it's interesting because I have been watching and enjoying the show, and John's saying, oh, there's all this stuff that's really hilarious that doesn't end up in the show. And. And it's interesting because I Feel like certainly my responsibility was to make sure that what I felt were the very best takes were in the show. And I think by and large they are. But then there is this process where the show goes to syndication and someone else who has not worked on the show goes through and takes more snippets out of the show. So the episodes that you're seeing now are not even the episodes that you could watch in real time when the show airs. So there's like, there were like more laughs that, you know, and more. And there were more jokes and more moments. I'm watch. I watch the show, you know, to rewatch it every now and then and I'm like, oh, that whole moment is missing. But I know that moment was there in my cut and it was there when it originally aired.

[B]

Is it cut for time?

[A]

It's cut for time. It's cut. It's cut for marketability and playable content. Because when you sell it in syndication and it plays in these local markets, they're selling more commercial time for sure. And so they cut the episodes down.

[B]

You know, there is a constant sort of not watering down like a sieve. Like the show gets, you know, we get this script, we rehearse it, we do it and then, and then, and then there's the network and the. And the production company and there's all these things. And so here you are holding the entire process. And like you just said, it was so powerful.

[A]

You.

[B]

There were hills that you were. You had to decide whether or not you were willing to die on. Are there hills that you like? No. I'm standing. My flag is in the dirt and I will not budge on this. Is there any moment like that?

[A]

There are plenty of moments like that.

[B]

Something that you'd be willing to share?

[A]

There's something that I think you want me to talk about that we haven't talked about.

[B]

It's not on the cards.

[A]

It just was like, no, but you mentioned it. Oh, the annual call and concern about weight. Oh, look at me, people. I'm a woman of a particular size. I've been high and I've been not what would be considered low in terms of my weight. So this was not something that I co signed and it was a battle that I was waging behind the scenes. And I was absolutely told, well, if they don't lose weight, then we need to write it in. And I absolutely refuse to. So thank you. Where you heard that threat that's going to write fat jokes? I'm like, no, they ain't. They're not writing fat jokes. They're not writing fat storylines. They're not writing any of that nonsense.

[B]

From me and every other curvy girl. Thank you for that. And I said on that show that when we did it here. Is that crudely. One of my male friends said, well, there's not one man in America that would kick any y' all out of bed. But thank you for that.

[A]

Thank you for your patience with the process, because it is a process.

[B]

Yeah. And I.

[A]

Unless we want to shoot everything independently, there are people that we have to listen to. And going back to the leadership question, you know, when you're a showrunner, you have to manage laterally with your partners that you're working with in the trenches. You have to manage upward for the people who are paying the bills, and you have to manage all the people who work for you. So it's. It's a big job. It's a lot of accountability. And so you hope that you get grace from everywhere. From everywhere in the production, because without it, it's hard to survive. It's a really. It's a hard job. It's a hard job. I love it. I embrace it. I feel like this is what I'm purposed to do, which is why I'm still doing it.

[B]

That's why you're still doing it.

[A]

That's why I'm still doing it. Because I feel like I do it with a certain amount of ease and authenticity and naturalness. So it's what I love to do.

[C]

Okay, so I'm gonna ask you. This episode gives us insight into the dynamic between the living single men. We have Kyle and Overton. Why is it important to showcase their relationship in this way? Because you're talking about enviable male relationships.

[A]

Absolutely. I mean, I think, again, friendship is so central to the premise of living single. How our friends are, you know, kind of like central and essential to life. My friends are. And at this point, which is pretty early in the show, I really felt like TC and John and Kyle and Overton as characters really deserved to take up more space and that it was important for us to have a better understanding of how their friendship operated and also to see kind of just the juxtaposition of how men handled their squabbles or skirmishes, you know, as opposed to women. So I thought that was really fun and important to do at this point and to give them more of a showcase. And it was really hilarious.

[C]

It was hilarious. But fans also were surprised when Overton moved out instead of Kyle, so.

[A]

Because it was Kyle's apartment. Kyle Overton. Overton. After his girlfriend Melody, I think, broke up with him. I think we covered this in season two or three. I don't remember, because, y', all, I'm old and it's been a while. So, yes, it was his apartment. If you look at the decor, it.

[B]

Is very much true.

[A]

It was Kyle's apartment. And over. Kyle had lived in New York before Overton. So, like, Khadijah invited Sinclair to come from Minneapolis to live with her. Kyle had invited his heartbroken buddy Overton to come live with him in New York.

[B]

Wow. I think there was an assumption, the building super, that.

[A]

Well, he got a job, too.

[B]

Right? And he got a job.

[A]

That is a friend hooking up a friend. But also, Overton is also like Khadijah. He was an entrepreneur.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, which, again, it's like, people don't necessarily. They think, oh, he's a handyman, he's blue collar. But. Yes. But he's a business owner.

[C]

That's true.

[A]

He's a business owner.

[C]

We got another thing to get to burglar in the house.

[A]

Shh. Y' all hear that? What? That.

[C]

That noise.

[A]

I think I heard it. That's my stomach growling from that damn diet food.

[C]

No, no, that's definitely from downstairs.

[A]

There it goes again. Aw, Sookie. What are we gonna do? What are we gonna do?

[C]

All right, call Kyle.

[A]

Call. Call Kyle. Call Overton.

[B]

Call 91 1. No.

[A]

Three stooges.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

One more thing for them to take.

[A]

Now What? Okay, okay, okay, okay.

[B]

Now that they're not, a smart thing to do is just stay up here until they leave.

[A]

Oh, gosh. Get my new ch.

[B]

I love this.

[A]

That's leadership. I'll take the lead, fat ass. That's right.

[C]

I'm going down.

[B]

Shoot.

[A]

I ain't sitting up here by myself.

[C]

Come on, girl.

[A]

I love this line so much. Oh, so funny.

[C]

Well, that's really good, Sinclair.

[B]

What?

[C]

What are you gonna do, huh? Beat him down with isotonas?

[B]

What are you gonna do, hit him.

[A]

With the Bible over and over again.

[B]

Burglar in the house gets mugged and fears the thief now knows where they live, throwing the whole household into a spiral of anxiety. Overton changes the locks, but the women still resort to cheap makeshift security trick, like fake alarms and guard dog cans.

[A]

Mm.

[B]

Later, a late night scare has them arming themselves with whatever's at hand, only to find an actual intruder in the kitchen. By the end, Overton installs a real alarm system and window bars, finally putting everyone at ease but the sirens wail and we know that they'll never be.

[C]

The same Never be the same this episode is touching on a lot of weightier things. Crime, security, protection, all those things. How did you decide to write those types of issues into a series? It's a comedy series, and sometime when it's done, it can be, like, very special.

[A]

Very special.

[B]

Very structural.

[C]

Yeah, but you did it well. And so why.

[B]

Well, it could be cheesy, but it wasn't.

[A]

I grew up on a show where we dared to be topical. And so even though we were on a different kind of network and Fox had their own brand of comedy, I was determined to deliver my brand of comedy, which is comedy with social commentary. And also, it was important to, early in the series, establish that their universe is bigger than this living room where most of the action plays out, and that, you know, they are impacted by the ills and the city.

[C]

So in that three walls, there's a serenity, but this is violence colliding and sort of reminding us that they don't live in sort of a utopia, that there's New York outside. And also, it was the 90s.

[A]

Right. But also, you know, see how they're there for each other? True blue. Tight, like, tight.

[C]

Like blue.

[A]

That's true. In that last scene where Max has gone home, and then they get a call, and she's like, no, you don't need to come over. And she's like, okay, we'll be here.

[C]

I love it. It's delivered beautifully.

[A]

I love it so much. I also love Warden. Warden.

[B]

I can't get out.

[A]

Good job.

[B]

Can we talk about a dog in a can? And I don't know if you.

[A]

Doberman in a can.

[B]

Doberman in a can.

[A]

Which would have been easier to say than guard dog in a can.

[C]

Yeah, that's a million dol.

[B]

Doberman And Kevin, how did that come. How did that come to you?

[A]

Remember that?

[B]

Dana and I really wanted to do the sound effects ourselves. We actually fought.

[A]

The barking.

[B]

The barking. We fought. Do you remember that? Then we were like, please let us do it.

[A]

Like, I don't recall it, but it sounds right. It sounds absolutely right. I trust you.

[B]

Where did Doberman in a can come from?

[A]

It's just some silly thing I made up.

[B]

Because we didn't have money, maybe didn't think we had money to protect ourselves and, like, dog in a can.

[A]

Doberman in a can. Exactly. Well, when Becky and I were writing it at my house, the one that you visited, we were just thinking, like, you know, those of Us who are Gunaverse. What are some good things that might be helpful to us to have? And that's where Doberman and a cat came from. Wow.

[B]

So you gave us nunchucks, which is so east coast.

[C]

I don't know.

[B]

Were you all doing nunchucks on the west coast so that she was able to, you know, pull that out and that you were gun averse. This is what you decided to come up with.

[A]

Exactly, exactly. And there's nothing like a good Bible beat down. So get beat down. And it was a big thing. It was. Yes.

[B]

By request and an isotoner.

[A]

Isotoner.

[C]

Welcome to the Reverb brought to you by Lexis.

[B]

This is where we reflect, connect, and talk about how the show's themes still echo in the culture.

[C]

Because just like our stories, Lexus keeps raising the bar.

[A]

Ah.

[B]

That's the standard of amazing.

[C]

Thank you, by the way. Cause I think you managed to not only write a sitcom, but the ultimate love mixtape for not only the 90s, but also into the 2000s. It really shaped and created what you call for the culture, the blueprint and the way to go. And I know you took a lot of hits and I know that you've carried a lot because the first always carries a lot.

[A]

Absolutely.

[C]

Yeah. But we love you for that.

[A]

Thank you.

[C]

You mentioned.

[A]

We love you.

[C]

We love. Thank you.

[A]

Love you back.

[C]

You told us about your stories. Your diary is in this Living single, all of that. But we really don't know where you come from, which people would be surprised because here you are, so suave. Bola and all that. And really beautiful, you know, very.

[A]

Don't let the Dolce Gabbana flee.

[C]

Well, you went to Stanford and all that.

[A]

Not from the hood, not from the project.

[C]

Well, let's talk about that. Because people see you at Stanford, they don't know how you got there. And I think that you need to tell us a little bit of where you come from.

[A]

Well, I'm originally from Philadelphia. My mother and my father moved here in 1970 when I was five years old. I sang do you know the way to San Jose? The whole way here. We were headed nowhere near San Jose. We landed in Los Angeles, where we then proceeded to be a little housing insecure, a little transient, homeless for many years. Near homeless. I remember very clearly as a second grader walking home to the motel where we were currently staying, wondering if we were going to stay inside or outside.

[C]

And my family lived in this hotel called Starlight.

[A]

We lived in what was La Brea Motel, but is now Called the Starlight Hotel.

[C]

And I see that driving on Washington.

[A]

And La Brea, for sure. Exactly. Exactly. So to have that background and to have that daily uncertainty. But then through work ethic in school and setting goals for myself academically and professionally, I made it to Stanford University. I was one of the first black students to go from my public high school to Stanford University.

[C]

But your mother also, you know, your mother and father, she was a cigarette girl.

[A]

My mother was a cigarette girl in Atlantic City at one point. Absolutely. Absolutely. And that's where they met. It's where my mother told me they were married. But what I found out recently was they not were not married until 1970, when. So they got married on the way from Philadelphia to Hollywood.

[C]

So what was your father doing there in Atlantic City? That's where he's from.

[A]

My father's from Philadelphia. That's a whole other story for another movie or series. I touched on it on the show called Unprison a little bit. But my daddy was a rolling stone, much like Khadijah's character's father. Right. So I have half siblings from that relationship. But also I just felt like to come from there, to have an opportunity to tell my story from various points of view in Hollywood was really a privilege and a gift that when you have a gift, I think you have an obligation to share it.

[C]

You an only child?

[A]

I'm my mother and father's only child.

[C]

Got it?

[A]

Absolutely. My mother had miscarriages before me. I was a twin. My mother miscarried my twin, and my mother had miscarried a boy after me. So I'm the lone survivor. So you can't have that origin story and not think that you are here for a very specific purpose. Absolutely.

[B]

Twin and Gemini, too. Yeah.

[C]

Your twin is with you.

[A]

And I always have other twins in my life, in my close circle of life.

[B]

Do you feel that your twin is with you?

[A]

I do. I do.

[C]

I get it now.

[A]

I do.

[C]

I think a little bit.

[A]

You get it now?

[C]

I do.

[A]

You get it now. And when I'm writing these characters then and now, but particularly on living single, I'm watching scenes now, you know, at your request. And I'm remembering being in conversation with myself and my own points of view, wrestling with each other and bouncing off of each other. And I think, you know, I do consider myself a very good writer. And I think the very best of us are in constant conversation with ourselves and also constantly questioning ourselves and being incredibly vulnerable and open on the page. And I would make myself cry if the scene I'm writing doesn't make me cry, then it's not gonna make any difference.

[C]

That's how I feel.

[A]

If it doesn't make me laugh, it's not gonna make me laugh.

[C]

That's why I said, you know, if you bored, then they're bored.

[A]

Right? Exactly. Exactly. Which is. It's interesting because multicam as a form was like the ultimate litmus test as to whether or not the audience was gonna feel what you intended for them to feel or laugh. You know, we have a lot of great shows now that are single cameras and many of them are single cam comedies, and there's no audience. And I think they're not as funny. They're not as funny because you're just like, yeah, I think that's funny. And that's what we're gonna shoot and that's what we're gonna air. When that audience is there, they will.

[C]

Let you know they're gonna earn your keep.

[B]

I've always thought that the audience actually becomes another character.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

And you begin to, I wouldn't say rely on them, but you come to.

[A]

You feed off of them. You feed off of them. You feed off of them. They give you rhythm and you give it back.

[B]

And they give us things that we didn't even know were on the page and, you know, holding for laughs and playing it for them, and them richly loving what we're giving them and saying, we're gonna give this back to you.

[A]

I think what they did, what Fox network did, was they scheduled us in what they consider a hammock time slot, you know, for a new show. They wanted to protect us in between Martin and Married With Children that first season.

[C]

That's right.

[A]

Right. So as a new show, you know, they. They predict that the ratings. They expect the ratings to, like, sag a little. That's why they call it a hammock time slot. Well, from night one, we were the golden arch.

[C]

Come on. What does that mean, the golden Arch?

[A]

That means that we built on the numbers for Martin.

[C]

We built from certain numbers, and then we also had higher ratings.

[A]

Not anymore. We had higher ratings, raised numbers. Absolutely.

[C]

That's amazing. And so you're the goose that laid the golden egg at that point.

[A]

We are the geese. We are the geese.

[C]

No, but I mean, we're the. But I'm saying now there's a really good feeling like, we made the good bet and you're on your way.

[B]

So beyond our ratings and our success, and we were numbered this and we were numbered that. Living Single gave black creatives Proof that their stories mattered and that they mattered in the mainstream and gave, you know, networks understanding that they mattered. They could be hits and that being.

[A]

In black business could mean being in the green business.

[B]

Let's come on, let's talk about being in the black business.

[A]

And.

[C]

Yeah, but it also shifted the conversation about how in writers room and executive offices, about who could run and lead a show 100%.

[A]

You know, I mean, I think Susan Thales and Winifred Hervey were two black women that I know who ran shows before me. They did not create those shows, which is kind of the only difference. But seeing a young black woman who singularly and by herself creates and then runs a show, I think really did kind of provide a path for them to consider other young, unproven creator showrunners. Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, I'm clearly not sitting here in front of you as the first black student to integrate the University of Mississippi, but there was definitely an unpaved road. There was no asphalt. There were no lampposts. There was no me to call. That's real.

[C]

When I say your twin is working. If you looked at you and said, you seem like you would be so run down from all the sort of things that you had to do, because showrunning is no joke, but you've got energy. Like, you've got someone else's energy in you. And I do believe that you're powered from another dimension.

[A]

I think you're right. I'll be honest. No, because I do feel like. I feel like, again, my steps have been divinely ordered. And I feel like when the universe pours so much into you, which is how I feel, then you pour out. It's easy to pour it out. It really is. It really is. And when your career and your life continue to fill you up, like, what do you do with all of that fullness?

[B]

Not everyone does it. Done. Not everyone does it. They hoard it for themselves.

[A]

They just think differently and move differently than I. There you go. There you go.

[C]

Gift that keeps giving. Yvette Leigh Bowser for the culture.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Let's go to True Blue. I learned so many things from my.

[A]

Time on living single, working for Yvette.

[C]

I had to pick one long before people were using the terms diversity and equity. Yvette created the most diverse, inclusive room.

[A]

I've ever worked in.

[C]

She encouraged all of us to bring our voices and our experiences to the room and merge them with her vision. And I think that's one of the reasons that the show was so universal and specific at the same time. And I know I said I was.

[A]

Gonna do only one thing, but I.

[C]

Have a second thing to say. Yvette also taught me never to settle that you can always make a joke or a line for a story. Better and more surprising. And finally, my question, Yvette. If we had to pick one person to bring to a lesbian bridal shower, would that be.

[A]

The one person I would bring to a lesbian bridal shower is Becky Hartman Edwards. Of course. She was my date. She was my girl in that episod.

[C]

That's right.

[A]

Beautiful surprise.

[C]

They're referencing the episode where Max finds out that one of her best friends, Karamanita White, who played my best friend, did not know that she was a lesbian. And she ends up finding out at basically her wedding and bride. And you two were extras?

[A]

We were guests. You were guests. We were a couple show, and we decided on the fly in that moment, we're gonna play that we're a couple and we were terrible.

[C]

And so you can now look at it.

[A]

And we have no business on camera. You guys, thank you for inviting me here.

[C]

Thank you. Well done. Okay, make sure to follow us on all our socials Eliving Single podcast and listen and watch us on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[B]

Don't forget to like and subscribe. And you've already watched all the way through, so I won't tell you to watch all the way through, but.

[C]

But you should.

[B]

Thank you, Eyvette, so much for making your life a living vision for the community. Thank you. And for us, thank you for the culture.

[A]

It's a pleasure for the culture.

[B]

More to come, I hope. Wink.

[A]

She's not done yet.

[C]

Reliving Single is hosted by me, Eric Alexander, and me, Kim Coles. Reliving Single is a production of Heartbeat in association with Color Farm Media, Executive.

[B]

Produced by Kevin Hart, Jeff Clanagan, Eric Eddings, Leslie Guam, Erica Alexander and Ben Arnon.

[C]

The show is produced by Kim Coles.

[B]

Amber Watson is our senior producer.

[C]

Our associate producer is Kenny Jackson.

[B]

Our other associate producer is Electra Telesford.

[C]

Our sound engineers are Eric Hicks and Cedric Wilson.

[B]

Production supervision by Razak Boykin and Brett Calkins.

[C]

Additional production support from Alex Atkins and Z. Taylor.

[B]

Special thanks to BK Augustine and Dr. E.J. johnson.

[A]

And Doug. Here we have the Limu emu in its natural habitat, helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds of with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug. Uh, limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us Cut the camera. They see us. Only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty, Liberty, Liberty. Liberty Savings Fairy, Underwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company Affiliates.

[B]

Excludes Massachusetts.

[C]

This is a netsy holiday ad, but you won't hear any sleigh bells or classic carols.

[A]

Instead, you'll hear something original. The sound of an Etsy holiday, which sounds like this.

[C]

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[A]

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[C]

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