The Pre-Show: Back to the Beginning

Summary

ReLiving Single Podcast Episode Summary: "The Pre-Show: Back to the Beginning"

Introduction to the Episode

In the premiere episode titled "The Pre-Show: Back to the Beginning," hosts Erika Alexander and Kim Coles delve deep into the origins of the iconic sitcom Living Single. Released on May 7, 2025, this episode sets the stage for the podcast's mission to unearth behind-the-scenes stories, explore memorable moments, and reintroduce the beloved stars to both longtime fans and newcomers.

The Birth of ReLiving Single Podcast

The conversation kicks off with Kim Coles proposing the idea of creating a podcast that diverges from the repetitive fan questions about potential reboots or character updates. Instead, she suggests sharing their personal stories about how Living Single came to life.

Kim Coles [00:46]: "So I was thinking, instead of answering the same questions over and over and over again, why don't we tell our story? How Living Single got started, all the backstage stories."

Erika Alexander hesitates initially but quickly warms to the idea, emphasizing the need for authenticity and a genuine connection with their audience.

Erika Alexander [01:18]: "You know, if we're going to do it, then we need a set, we need some lighting... Let's do it for the people. I'm starting to feel it."

Kim Coles' Journey Before Living Single

Kim shares her early career struggles, including being fired from In Living Color and navigating the uncertain waters of the entertainment industry. She recounts attending a pivotal meeting with Les Moonves at Lorimar Productions, where the concept for a show centered around black women’s friendships and careers was first introduced.

Kim Coles [03:16]: "I go up to Warner Brothers, and this is... there they say they want to do a show about women, about black women, about their friendships and relationships and career and sex and, you know, all the things."

Her integrity shines as she stands firm against a concept that she feels is overly negative towards men, showcasing her commitment to authentic storytelling.

Kim Coles [04:43]: "I said, I'd love to do something like that, but if the show is about bashing men, I'M not interested."

Meeting Yvette Denise Lee and Show Creation

The hosts discuss the critical role Yvette Denise Lee played in shaping the show. Yvette, being young and talented, was tasked with developing the characters and overarching vision of Living Single. Kim highlights the importance of having a black showrunner who could authentically tell their stories.

Kim Coles [07:59]: "Yvette was chosen as the one that could have this opportunity to create the show. And she had been at Hanging with Mr. Cooper, and she had been with Different World. Right? Right. Yeah."

Navigating the Network Dynamics

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to understanding Fox's strategic positioning in the television landscape. Unlike established networks like NBC and ABC, Fox aimed to capture younger, urban, and minority audiences, which provided an opportunity for shows like Living Single to thrive.

Kim Coles [40:07]: "So they built with communities that had not been seen. So, yes, you had Cosby on NBC, but I think that Fox decided to go young, to go urban, to go black, to go Latino."

Erika and Kim reflect on how Fox’s approach was both a blessing and a challenge, especially when network strategies shifted over time.

Casting and Character Development

The hosts delve into the casting process, highlighting the dedication to authenticity and representation. They discuss casting Regina (Regine) Fields and Overton, ensuring that each character brought something unique to the ensemble.

Kim Coles [10:35]: "Regine was made to be bougie. She wanted a date. She wants to meet a man."

Erika shares her audition experiences, including her callback strategies and the emotional resilience required to secure her role as Maxine Shaw.

Erika Alexander [29:19]: "I put Living Single, second position, Mantis in first. If I did not get chosen in Mantis on the final callback, I had to audition for Living Single."

Overcoming Challenges and Network Constraints

Despite securing key roles, Erika and Kim faced numerous challenges, from limited budgets to inadequate marketing support. They recount how executive decisions often sidelined the show's potential, leading to creative tensions and eventual conflicts with network standards.

Kim Coles [48:02]: "They didn't put the money into the show. So we didn't have the same anything that the network shows had."

Erika emphasizes the disparity between their production conditions and those of other network shows, underscoring the resilience required to produce quality content under constrained circumstances.

Erika Alexander [50:00]: "They kept going. I went up to one of the promotions, said, why aren't we going to Peoria?... And they had no explanation."

Reflections on Race and Colorism in the Industry

A poignant segment of the episode addresses the pervasive issues of colorism and racial politics within the entertainment industry. Erika and Kim discuss how skin tone impacted their opportunities and the broader implications for representation on television.

Erika Alexander [36:33]: "I'm dark skinned. I'm not even the darkest skinned person in the room. But I talk about it because somebody needs to talk about it."

Kim adds her perspective, reflecting on her upbringing and the societal pressures related to skin color.

Kim Coles [36:30]: "I have a mother who's brown skinned and was the darkest one of her sisters and grew up in the south and is aware of the contrast."

They both critique the labeling of shows as "black shows," arguing that such categorizations can limit the potential and recognition of the content.

Erika Alexander [44:34]: "If you are suddenly in a space where somebody can create a narrative around you, they can also create that landscape to have drought, to say, we don't have to support that show because the black people are watching, it's a black show."

Success and Legacy of Living Single

Despite the hurdles, Living Single achieved significant success, resonating with a diverse audience and becoming a cultural touchstone. The hosts proudly recount how the show was embraced by viewers across different demographics, thanks to its relatable characters and universal themes of friendship and love.

Kim Coles [49:35]: "We had a wide range of audience and ages and people and people sitting down to watch it together that will be listening to this too."

Erika emphasizes the show's number one ranking and its lasting impact on television history.

Erika Alexander [49:58]: "It was recognized. It was number one. And also beloved in many households."

Conclusion: Bond and Future of the Podcast

The episode concludes with Erika and Kim reaffirming their strong friendship and shared passion for Living Single. They express excitement about continuing the podcast, promising more in-depth conversations and nostalgic looks back at the show's legacy.

Erika Alexander [51:05]: "We just had so much fun. I think we should do this more. Don't you think?"

Kim Coles [51:40]: "It was recognized. It was number one. And also beloved in many households. Very much so. And I'm grateful for that because I think that our audience found us."

Finally, they officially announce the launch of the ReLiving Single podcast, setting the tone for future episodes filled with heartfelt reminiscences and insider anecdotes.

Kim Coles [52:22]: "Welcome to Reliving Single, the official unofficial Rewatch podcast."

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Kim Coles [00:46]: "So I was thinking, instead of answering the same questions over and over and over again, why don't we tell our story? How Living Single got started, all the backstage stories."

• Erika Alexander [01:18]: "You know, if we're going to do it, then we need a set, we need some lighting... Let's do it for the people. I'm starting to feel it."

• Kim Coles [04:43]: "I said, I'd love to do something like that, but if the show is about bashing men, I'M not interested."

• Erika Alexander [36:33]: "I'm dark skinned. I'm not even the darkest skinned person in the room. But I talk about it because somebody needs to talk about it."

• Kim Coles [45:40]: "If you are suddenly in a space where somebody can create a narrative around you, they can also create that landscape to have drought, to say, we don't have to support that show because the black people are watching, it's a black show."

• Erika Alexander [49:58]: "It was recognized. It was number one. And also beloved in many households."

This comprehensive episode serves as a foundational narrative, establishing the podcast's intent to celebrate and dissect the legacy of Living Single. Through candid conversations and shared memories, Erika and Kim offer listeners an intimate look into the making of a show that not only entertained but also shaped television history.

Transcript

[Kim Coles]

Hi, Erica.

[Erica Alexander]

Girl, what's going on?

[Kim Coles]

Where you.

[Erica Alexander]

I'm in Puerto Rico.

[Kim Coles]

I want to tell you that you are looking absolutely gorgeous. Your skin is skinning. You look wonderful. What's your secret?

[Erica Alexander]

You know, it's rest and minding my business is my secret. And you look good, too, Kim. You too. So why are you calling me?

[Kim Coles]

Okay, so I've been thinking.

[Erica Alexander]

Let me just say no right now. No, don't say no.

[Kim Coles]

Don't say no. Just listen. Just listen up. Okay. You know how the fans are always asking us all the living single questions, right? Like, you know, is there ever going to be a reboot?

[Erica Alexander]

Is Max and Kyle's baby on Instagram, or has it been abducted by aliens? All that.

[Kim Coles]

So I was thinking, instead of answering the same questions over and over and over again.

[Erica Alexander]

Yeah.

[Kim Coles]

Why don't we tell our story? How Living Single got started, all the backstage stories.

[Erica Alexander]

I don't know, girl.

[Kim Coles]

Erica, Erica, come on. The fans would love it. The fans would love it. And we would get to talk about the process and our approach to comedy.

[Erica Alexander]

Yeah. How there was a strategy that great writers, great writers, crew, craftsmanship went into that.

[Kim Coles]

Yes. Yes. We could record it in one quick, simple episode. We could just do that anywhere.

[Erica Alexander]

You know, if we're going to do it, then we need a set, we need some lighting. Whatever we do. We're not doing any corny introductions or, you know, what the show is and all that. Because if we gonna do this, let's do it for us. Let's. Let's do it for the people. I'm starting to feel it.

[Kim Coles]

I knew you'd come around. Do your hair, get dressed, and let's do this. I got just the place to do it.

[Erica Alexander]

Yes. Let's do it.

[Kim Coles]

Okay, so how much are we telling?

[Erica Alexander]

Girl, I don't know, because loose lips sink ships.

[Kim Coles]

All right, well, we gotta give the people something.

[Erica Alexander]

Where do we begin?

[Kim Coles]

Well, at the beginning, of course.

[Erica Alexander]

Right. But we both know the beginning is never the beginning.

[Kim Coles]

So there's a story before the story. So we'll just tell that story and then we'll get into the story.

[Erica Alexander]

Okay, I'm with it. So how do you think we gonna do it? Cause I don't want to stand here the whole time.

[Kim Coles]

Oh, okay. It's a candid conversation with family and friends. You know what we need?

[Erica Alexander]

Where have I heard that before?

[Kim Coles]

Oh.

[Erica Alexander]

Oh. What? Red table.

[Kim Coles]

It's a little red. You ready?

[Erica Alexander]

You got to be kidding me.

[Kim Coles]

Candid conversation between friends and family. That was a tagline. And that's what we're gonna do. We're friends and family, so this is perfect. See?

[Erica Alexander]

But since you started the living single journey, you gotta begin. I mean, so you started way before us and. Yeah. So the spotlight's on you.

[Kim Coles]

Oh, I did not know that. You literally met the spotlight. That's a little bright. That's a little bright.

[Erica Alexander]

You can't take depression.

[Kim Coles]

Can't take depression. Die that down just a little bit. Oh, okay. It's 1993. It is a couple of years after I have been released. Let go. Released.

[Erica Alexander]

Fired.

[Kim Coles]

Fired from. In Living Color. Fired from my first job in Living Color. And so I've been, you know, just out there in the world, still doing standup. I had a couple of holding deals. You know, that's when they give talent money to not do anything while they develop something for you, and then nothing gets developed.

[Erica Alexander]

So you were in purgatory.

[Kim Coles]

I was in the purgatory of waiting to work again.

[Erica Alexander]

Okay.

[Kim Coles]

Yes.

[Erica Alexander]

That's the life of a actor, performer, comedian.

[Kim Coles]

It's how it goes.

[Erica Alexander]

Okay, Right.

[Kim Coles]

And I get a phone call one day.

[Erica Alexander]

Let's reenact it.

[Kim Coles]

Oh, oh, oh. It's my manager, Sinclair. My manager's name was Sinclair. Go figure. Hey, Sinclair. Hey. Yeah, Just sitting around. I'm not doing nothing. A meeting where? Warner Brothers. I'm in. And so we go to Warner Brothers to a meeting. I meet with Les Moonves. At the time, it was still called Lorimar. Lorimar Productions.

[Erica Alexander]

That's right. I remember that. And Les Moonves was the president of Lorimar.

[Kim Coles]

And so I go up to Warner Brothers, and this is. You know, I've been taking meetings all along. So, like, okay, another meeting. And in this meeting, the executives and Les say that they want to do a show about women, about black women, about their friendships and relationships and career and sex and, you know, all the things. And they mentioned a very pivotal scene inside of Jungle Fever, affectionately termed the War Council scene. So there's a bunch of women sitting around talking about men and what they're doing, what they're not doing, Right.

[Erica Alexander]

And these are the people at Warner Brothers who would mention this scene. And you were in the room with Sinclair. Just you and Sinclair.

[Kim Coles]

Sinclair and I, just in this room and all the executives.

[Erica Alexander]

I love this.

[Kim Coles]

So it's proof that our culture, you know, matters and our culture influences. And they knew that that film and that scene in particular, these women talking, was magical. And so I said, I'd love to do something like that, but if the show is about bashing men, I'M not interested now. I realize now that that scene wasn't so much about just bashing men. It was like understanding what men are doing.

[Erica Alexander]

But you were already setting boundaries and telling them what would go down. And that speaks to your integrity and also speaks to how consequential you were already in the world because they called you. Cause you had stood out on Living Color. So let's just give props to that badass.

[Kim Coles]

Thank you. Thank you. Even though I've been fired, that's a.

[Erica Alexander]

Story for another day, Right?

[Kim Coles]

But that's nice, though.

[Erica Alexander]

Better days coming.

[Kim Coles]

But I was talent that was sort of being, you know, courted in other places, and nothing had landed. So that's nice to know. And it's a nice position to be in to go, like, we may want to create something for you. And I was like, that's great, but if it's about bashing men, I'm not. No. Thank you. They were like, okay, got it. Got it. And then they said, by the way, what do you think of Queen Latifah? I was like, I love Queen Latifah. Oh, my goodness. She's amazing.

[Erica Alexander]

Come on.

[Kim Coles]

She and I had just met backstage at an awards show, and it's interesting. She was in her mirror this way, and I was in my mirror this way in the makeup room. And we both turned around. I was like, oh, my goodness. I love you. And she said, oh, my goodness. We watched Living Color on our tour bus, and I was like, oh, my goodness. I've been such a fan. And I'm from Brooklyn, you from Newark. Hey, girl.

[Erica Alexander]

And chills up already. The universe is starting to create.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah, the magic.

[Erica Alexander]

That's the magic.

[Kim Coles]

Okay, nice hug. And so I flashed that moment like, oh, my goodness, I love her. Okay. Would you like to work with her? I was like, uh, who wouldn't want to work with the Queen? This is amazing. I don't even know what this is yet, but I'm a yes. I didn't know that they were having meetings with her at the same time. So they must have said, what do you think of Kim Coles? And she signed off on me.

[Erica Alexander]

Okay, got it.

[Kim Coles]

So we both approved of each other.

[Erica Alexander]

I love it.

[Kim Coles]

And I requested that we have somebody black. Like, can we get someone black to create this show? That would be awesome.

[Erica Alexander]

Well, now, this is a very unique thing, because you're talking about the showrunner who's going to just not ideate and develop, but you're also saying we need a certain point of view.

[Kim Coles]

We need a certain Point of view.

[Erica Alexander]

Already still flexing, saying, I ain't gonna bash. And we need somebody who can tell our story.

[Kim Coles]

But what's interesting is I wasn't aware that I was flexing at the moment. I just was like, I'm in a space where I'm just gonna ask for what I want. I wasn't even aware of the. I didn't walk in like a boss. Like, I want this and I want that. I was like, it would be really nice if we could get somebody black.

[Erica Alexander]

And it would be nice as you were already a boss. You didn't walk in like a boss. It's in your DNA.

[Kim Coles]

I understand that now, but I wasn't thinking that.

[Erica Alexander]

But you know who you are when no one's looking.

[Kim Coles]

Absolutely no one was looking.

[Erica Alexander]

You didn't even know you were flexing, but you wasn't flexing. That's just your Tuesday. That's Tuesday.

[Kim Coles]

It's a Tuesday.

[Erica Alexander]

Come on, Queen.

[Kim Coles]

But it's like, if you can ask the question. And this is important to know because I think that we have this expectation or this desire to be a particular way. Not knowing that just being ourselves is enough sometimes. I didn't know that I couldn't ask for it. So I was just like, why not? Latifah and I were at the same agency. We were both at William Morris. And so it was understood that this was gonna be what they call a package. So because you have two, at least two pieces of the pie that are at the same agency, why not keep. Try to keep that going if you can?

[Erica Alexander]

And that's what a package deal is, is that's when an agency has maybe a star and in this case, two. And so they start to design the project around existing talent that they represent.

[Kim Coles]

Right. That way they get to come in with their power. Right. So we were given a list of writers who were in the William Morris family. And on that list was Yvette Denise Lee. Each of us met with her separately. Latifah and I talked and said, I like her. I like her, too. And Yvette was chosen as the one that could have this opportunity to create the show. And she had been at hanging with Mr. Cooper, and she had been with different world. Right? Right. Yeah.

[Erica Alexander]

She's been doing it right.

[Kim Coles]

And it was the right time. And young and smart from Stanford, Philly.

[Erica Alexander]

You know, she'd had many lives before and also had built her power and reputation. So these are these, again, powerful forces coming together, doing their home. I love it.

[Kim Coles]

And again, young. Younger than me, you know, I was older than all of y'all, actually, which is fun to experience. I was like.

[Erica Alexander]

I didn't.

[Kim Coles]

I don't think I had myself together at 23, 24 like y'all did. So help.

[Erica Alexander]

I think you did, Kim, because you wouldn't have been in that room with power unless you had been building when you were in your 20s.

[Kim Coles]

I get that, Ken.

[Erica Alexander]

I just want to give you.

[Kim Coles]

I'll take the. I'll take the flowers. I'm just saying it's important to know. I wasn't thinking that at the time.

[Erica Alexander]

I know.

[Kim Coles]

So I'm not putting it down. I'm just that it's important to know that I didn't even know what I had.

[Erica Alexander]

I understand.

[Kim Coles]

And imagine if I did, then who would.

[Erica Alexander]

You would have been a demon. I'm glad you didn't know. Keep me humble.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah, keep me humble. And I'm also saying this to other people who are, you know, growing and learning and building. Like you don't even know what you already have, and so might as well own it and enjoy it.

[Erica Alexander]

But Michelle Obama wrote, becoming. You are in a state of becoming.

[Kim Coles]

Of course.

[Erica Alexander]

Of course. Yes.

[Kim Coles]

I love it. But I wanted to really make this delineation that I really didn't even know what. That I didn't know that I already had.

[Erica Alexander]

Right. And so now you've got three powerful people in this room who have built some things beforehand to be in that room. And y'all are starting to do a show. Right?

[Kim Coles]

And so sitting with Yvette and helping to shape who this character Sinclair. Like I said, my manager's name was Sinclair, so spelled differently and really developing who she would be, that she was gonna be joyful and light and childlike and a little ditzy, a little this and all the things. And Latifah was on her end, creating her charact. And who do I think this is and who. She's an entrepreneur. The magazine's name is gonna be Flavor and all these other pieces. And Yvette was also creating all the other characters and all the other pieces that would fit beautifully together. And we know that her vision was powerful female relationships.

[Erica Alexander]

Well, let's talk about a little bit about Latifah as a. To the Khadija character, because she is an entrepreneur that's linking into Latifah, who was.

[Kim Coles]

Who she is.

[Erica Alexander]

She is. She was making something like Latifah's making music.

[Kim Coles]

Music and movies. Movies and a boss.

[Erica Alexander]

Dana was a boss.

[Kim Coles]

The first of her kind. That day that I met her backstage at that awards show, I said to her, I want to be a queen. And she was like, you are queen. Like, she got mad at me. Oh, my goodness. I want to be a queen.

[Erica Alexander]

What?

[Kim Coles]

You are a queen. She's a powerhouse and has always, you know, from as far as long as we've known her, has always been a powerhouse and has that. That beautiful balance of strong femininity. And there's a softness in her. And, you know, we got to see it every day because we worked a day with her.

[Erica Alexander]

She's the. She's the baby of the bunch.

[Kim Coles]

She really is. She really is the baby. There is a sensitivity.

[Erica Alexander]

Yes. Very sensitive. Pisces.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah, there it is.

[Erica Alexander]

Lord have mercy.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah, there it is. There it is.

[Erica Alexander]

So she's locking into that Khadijah, because Khadijah is going to be that.

[Kim Coles]

She's going to be strong and powerful and sensitive and all the things at the same time.

[Erica Alexander]

So you got the three of y'all. You're William Morris.

[Kim Coles]

We're now William Richard.

[Erica Alexander]

And now you start thinking about the rest of the cast and the rest of the characters.

[Kim Coles]

I remember Yvette telling me about Regine and who she was thinking about for Regine, and she said, kim feels. And I was like, oh, that's interesting, because we had only seen Kim as a child star, I mean, only and ever. And we know that she's growing up and she had begun doing some other roles. No, the public hadn't really gotten a chance to fall in love with her as a grown woman.

[Erica Alexander]

But this is already an icon every.

[Kim Coles]

Little black girl wanted to be. Kim Fields. Exactly right.

[Erica Alexander]

Powerful.

[Kim Coles]

And she did it so well. And she had kept her integrity and.

[Erica Alexander]

Kept her energy, mental capacity and everything, which is no small thing. And people attribute it to the business, but it's also to the child, the DNA. It's, you know, something within her that's sort of, you know, the spine of her can take that type of pressure.

[Kim Coles]

And her mother, you know, Chip Fields didn't play any games whatsoever.

[Erica Alexander]

So she gets it. Yeah, through DNA and everything.

[Kim Coles]

Up it through there. So I know that she was thinking of her all along. And I was like, oh, this is fun. So I don't know what the casting situation was for Kim. And Kim will come and tell us if she ever comes to visit.

[Erica Alexander]

We gotta have her.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah, we gotta have her. And so just all felt good until it didn't feel good. So Yvette turned on scripts. We were falling in love with what this is gonna be, and we Got a call saying, the final script that was turned in is not what we want it to be.

[Erica Alexander]

Okay, so wait a minute.

[Kim Coles]

Okay.

[Erica Alexander]

Y'all about to lose the show.

[Kim Coles]

We're about to lose the show because there was a script that was turned in that was not to Warner Brothers or Fox's liking. It just wasn't what they wanted.

[Erica Alexander]

Wow.

[Kim Coles]

And they're like, we've run out of time. We've given her notes. She's addressed some of the notes, but it's still not where we need it to be. We're going to have to go. And Latifah and I got on the phone and said, I'm willing to extend my deal if you are. I like this girl. I love this idea. I want to play. And she felt the same way. What do we need to do? And so we requested that William Morris extend our deal so that Yvette would have time to get another script in to get it done.

[Erica Alexander]

We were like, what's mean? Your deal is no small thing. That means that they can grab more time for you. You're not. You're exclusive to them.

[Kim Coles]

Right.

[Erica Alexander]

So that means you just can't go shopping anywhere. So you are, in fact, not only investing your time, but you're also taking yourself off the market for a little while longer. For a little while longer.

[Kim Coles]

Because you could go into the pool, like, well, off to the next show. I want to say we extended our deal just another two weeks or another month. It wasn't a long time, but it was enough so that Yvette could get another chance to write. So there was another writer, a showrunner. And that's an important distinction. Yeah.

[Erica Alexander]

So let's say, what is the distinction?

[Kim Coles]

So you have writers and executive producers, and then you have showrunners. And just as the name sounds, it's someone who is experienced or is being given the opportunity to run the show. That means you are the head honcho. You are running the entire experience. You're gonna hire everyone. You're gonna oversee the writers. You may write yourself. This is the person who's really.

[Erica Alexander]

The buck stops with that.

[Kim Coles]

And Yvette had not yet had experience as a showrunner. She had had experience as a writer, and she was well loved.

[Erica Alexander]

An exact producer also, too.

[Kim Coles]

But not as a showrunner.

[Erica Alexander]

Yeah.

[Kim Coles]

It was decided that if we give her a showrunner who has experienced, who has knowledge, who can come in and just oversee everything. And I'm using that word. I'm using that word, oversee the entire project. If we give her someone who will be by her side through this process. Then we'll. Then we'll give it another shot when.

[Erica Alexander]

It'S actually about their level of their anxiety. But, oh, they say, okay, let's have an insurance plan. Someone who's done it. It takes maybe the pressure a little bit off of Yvette to feel, hey, you know, you've got somebody who's done it and been in the thick, and you hope that the two will get along. I hope so. Who was it?

[Kim Coles]

It was a man named Tom Anderson. Sweet, white, white guy.

[Erica Alexander]

As, by the way, most showrunners and writers were absolutely. Yeah.

[Kim Coles]

And so we got Tom Anderson. Now here's the beauty. And we know that this could go terribly wrong. Now we've got this guy who doesn't fully understand the vision, maybe who can't fully get into the experience of what these black women are saying. He's a dude. He's a white guy. He's all the things. All the things. However, he understood that Yvette had the vision, and Yvette understood it, and he had faith in her and said, I'll be here. I'll be here if you need me. You can ask me whatever questions, and, you know, we'll have to talk to Yvette and find out what happened between the two of them. But whatever it was, he understood his position and he understood the assignment, and he let her do what she needed to do. And if you remember, he was there in the beginning, and then we kind of never saw him again.

[Erica Alexander]

That's real.

[Kim Coles]

He was there making sure his hand was there, making sure, maybe reviewing it.

[Erica Alexander]

I bet you he still gets paid on every show.

[Kim Coles]

Oh, you know, he does, because he came in as the showrunner.

[Erica Alexander]

Well, that was a great deal.

[Kim Coles]

He gets a chance.

[Erica Alexander]

Can I get in on that?

[Kim Coles]

Can I get.

[Erica Alexander]

Shoot.

[Kim Coles]

I just come in and make it.

[Erica Alexander]

Let me come in and be the actress. Like, you know, I've been here, y'all. You gonna see me fade out, and I'm gonna still get paid.

[Kim Coles]

So the most generous thing that he could do was lend his name and his expertise and his vision or whatever he helped her on, because sure enough, the next script was accepted. And this is the pilot script, and this is what we're gonna shoot now. And I think Yvette would say that she's grateful to him for coming in and having that foresight to go, let me still cook. Let me be over. I'm still going, let me cook. And he understood, let me let her cook.

[Erica Alexander]

Because I know she worked very hard on that script. She tells a story about it, you know, being something that she labored over and didn't even sleep for days. So she put it out, and then, boom.

[Kim Coles]

She knew what was at stake, too. And we all did. We all did. And so that's the beginning of the beginning.

[Erica Alexander]

Right. So you got another person coming in from William Morris. This package is John Hinton, right?

[Kim Coles]

John was a standup. And John was really getting a lot of attention because he was funny and cute and had his own way with words. And then he had done the Johnny Carson show, the Tonight show, and had just done so well on the show, so well that Johnny Carson invited him over to the sofa.

[Erica Alexander]

It's a big deal.

[Kim Coles]

It's a big deal for Johnny Carson to say, you are amazing.

[Erica Alexander]

Kingmaker says to new comedian, come over now. Everyone like you, the spotlight's on him. And that's already telling people. This is a talent to watch.

[Kim Coles]

I do think that John got cast, but I think it was a happy coincidence that he was also part of.

[Erica Alexander]

William R. But what about his character?

[Kim Coles]

Listen, here's the beauty about creating a show is that you get to set the worlds that they're in and set the worlds in the future. So we know that Sinclair and Khadijah are cousins. Sinclair's gonna move from Minnesota and come work and live with her cousin. We know that Khadijah is a business owner. And, you know, she's struggling to make it and make it big. She's got some success, and there's more to have, there's more to come. We know that there's this best friend that she knew back in New Jersey whose name is really Regina, but now she calls herself Regine. And she's gonna be, you know, very bougie. And she's gonna want a date. She's gonna want to meet a man. She wants to meet a man. And we know that we're going to give you a love interest, and he's going to be a guy named Overton. By the way, Kyle Bowser is Yvette Lee Bowser's husband. She names Kyle Barker after him. And guess what? Kyle Bowser's best friend's name is. Overton.

[Erica Alexander]

Overton.

[Kim Coles]

There's a real Overton.

[Erica Alexander]

Got it right.

[Kim Coles]

And so she gave him a best friend, Overton. And so we know that this is going to be your love interest. And so we're going to set it up now so it's all the worlds that you're creating in that moment and all the worlds that you're opening space For. And of course, then you come along and we're gonna talk about that.

[Erica Alexander]

Now I'm in the hot seat.

[Kim Coles]

Now you're in the hot seat.

[Erica Alexander]

Somebody put the spotlight on her. You know, I have an inner glow.

[Kim Coles]

You do?

[Erica Alexander]

Yes, I do. All right, well, lot different.

[Kim Coles]

Mm.

[Erica Alexander]

You're there from the conception. I'm there as work for hire. If you haven't been there to develop show, they're not developing around you. You're there as a hired gun. So I think of myself as a samurai, masterless samurai. You go around looking for jobs and you have this weapons and skill sets, and you're just asking whether they need them or not. And if they do, then you take out your wares and you stay, you know, as long to do the job and you go on your way and you go on a journey. And that's what a journeyman actor is.

[Kim Coles]

By the way, most actors, it's not like this. I've only had a handful of opportunities that were like this is. This doesn't happen very often. Most of the time I'm a samurai too. I'm sharpening my sword.

[Erica Alexander]

Well, that's, that's definitely where I am. So I'm coming in from New York, except I'm living there. The thing I did before coming to LA for pilot season, which is the season that you come in to audition for new pilots, new shows, is I had been in Jamaica doing a series called Going to Extremes, a one hour show for abc. We were doctors and we had a fictitious island named Gentique. And in Gentique, I played this character named Cheryl, who was this Boston bougie girl who was a doctor. And I dressed in all the great clothes, but I didn't. I shaved my hair completely off. Had just, you know, a natural with very close fade. I was, ooh, I was looking fly. Cause I'd just come off of the Cosby show and I'd done the pilot while I was doing the last year of the Cosby Show. Everybody knew that Cosby show was ending in year eight. And I had played the character of Cousin Pam.

[Kim Coles]

Cousin Pam.

[Erica Alexander]

So just a couple of quick notes on Cousin Pam. I'd been acting since I was 14, discovered at New Freedom Theater. Had already done many series, television series, a lot of things back in the day, especially when you were a particular age, a teenager, you were doing ABC after school specials. You know, they did a lot of like, TV series like George Washington, the Forging of a Nation. I played Oney the slave. Patty Duke played Martha Washington. These are huge roles. To get the first role I got was my little girl. My little girl for Merchant Ivy. Merchant Ivy was English company that did really high brow stuff like Helena Bonham Carter, you know, this type of stuff. And they were doing this film and it got me in, got my SAG card, got me going. I'd wanted out of hundreds of girls that had shown up for this audition. It was an open call. I just happened to be in a six week program. And in the fifth week, that movie came to town. And I came in, I was second in line, five o'clock in the morning, did tons of auditions, screen tests. They gave me the role. Boom, there I did it, it came out, got me on my way doing all these other parts. Finished. Girls High was in Philadelphia High School for Girls. My mother had an appointment with an agent, the agent Gersh at the time. And they said, we don't represent teenagers. The only other teenager they had was Michael J. Fox. Wow. And they took me too.

[Kim Coles]

Okay.

[Erica Alexander]

They said, we think Erica has something. I mean, that's something, right? My mother tells that. And my mother was like, that's fine, but no smut. She has to stay in school because she told him, I'm not gonna be on set with her. I have five other children. I'm working two jobs. You know, she had my father, who was a preacher, who was also sick, you know, a lot. She was like, no, I cannot.

[Kim Coles]

Did they have all the rules in place then? There was a teacher on set and all that stuff back then?

[Erica Alexander]

Yeah, they did, but it was still kind of a little loosey goosey. Like we had a Tudor on set, that type of thing. You go in and out and you didn't even realize how fame starts to distort people's version of you. They start to project onto you things and you gotta live through that so they can find out who you really are. And teachers, that's the first time I saw that teachers could play or hate. I loved my time at Philadelphia High School for Girls. It's responsible for partly who I am. And freedom Theater is very responsible for, like the spine. They were like, y'all come from, you know, kings and queens. You ain't got the right to be tired. You know, like, suck it up. Like that suck it up thing you have. That was.

[Kim Coles]

That's a suck it up thing that you have. That you have.

[Erica Alexander]

Well, okay, the suck it up thing I have.

[Kim Coles]

I'm like, what? But I see now I know where. I didn't know where it came from. I was like, why is she Being so mean.

[Erica Alexander]

Philly is hardcore, too. Let's get it straight. Philly is hardcore. So I come from Arizona. I'm in Philly. I'm having this. All this stuff come in. And why is that important? Because that's also building the Max character. The Max character doesn't exist outside of Erica Alexander. You know, I'm coming in the door and they're hiring me to play somebody or something. I don't know. Remember, I'm masterless samurai. So by the time I get there. Coming off of Cousin Pam, by the way, please, the biggest show in the world is the Cosby Show. To get a role on that is like, it's one in a trillion.

[Kim Coles]

Didn't Camille found you?

[Erica Alexander]

Yeah.

[Kim Coles]

Bill's wife said, you need to go see this girl.

[Erica Alexander]

That's what I was told. I was doing off Broadway play. I'd been doing off Broadway plays. I'd gone around the world with the Royal Shakespeare Theater doing something called the Mahabharata, which was a nine hour play. We went around the world. We did the movie in Paris, chez pas en francais, you know, les un petit bon fantastique. And we come back and everybody's like, you need to keep. I said, I want to go to the Bouff du Nord in Paris and study with y'all. They said, no, go to the Public Theater in New York, please. That's where the best stuff is being done. Turns out when I got there, I got cast in a play by the great Joseph Papp. His last play, the Forbidden. The Forbidden City, is headlined by the great Gloria Foster. Gloria Foster, Achille Prince and Frankie Faison. Yes. Gloria Foster is the best. One of the best friends of Camille Cosby. And what I was told later on, and I don't know, I'm just saying. Allegedly, she came, saw the play and came home and said to her husband, Bill Cosby, you need to go see Gloria in this play. And this girl.

[Kim Coles]

Girl.

[Erica Alexander]

The girl was me. I don't think he ever came. What I heard is he trusted his wife. Well, the thing is, I'd gone many times to audition for the Cosby Show. Everyone had. That was one of the only games in town. That. And I think there was Roseanne and then there was law and Order. Like, if you were young again, there was not many things to.

[Kim Coles]

Mm. Mm. You know, I was there. I was younger.

[Erica Alexander]

Whew. It was like a drought. So I'd gone before but never gotten a role promised. Suddenly I get a call one day. Can you be at Mr. Cosby's house and two hours. Wow. And I got there and he made up the role right in front of me. So there's this girl, and her name is Pam and she's Claire's cousin Pam, and makes it up and says, as far as I'm concerned, you played a role. And you know writers, they'll have their, you know, their thoughts, but you played a role. And that's how I got the role with the Cosby Show. And this has been my life. I've been a series of discoveries from very powerful people who've said, you, you, you, you. I wanted to be a scientist. I didn't even accept that I was an actor until I was in my 40s. It just was something I did.

[Kim Coles]

Wow.

[Erica Alexander]

In my mind, on the side.

[Kim Coles]

Wow.

[Erica Alexander]

Yeah. Until I got to do the thing I really wanted to do. I started thinking I wanted to be a writer and producer then because I realized I didn't have much power as an actor, and I didn't like that. So my first three roles that I got coming out of first when foster child, prostitute and a slave. So I said I got to hold on. Foster child, prostitute, prostitute and a slave. First three roles and happy to get them.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah, of course.

[Erica Alexander]

But if people want to know where we were at, that's a lot of what you played. So started thinking about writing, producing, but that would come later. Got the Cosby show that ended. Did going to extremes for ABC that didn't get picked up. Go for pilot season and then start auditioning. This is one of several auditions. Living single. It doesn't have any particular place in my mind. I go in and I audition and I've gone in and auditioned for something called Mantis as well. And both of them want me to come back. I'm going to callbacks for both of them. And then it gets to a point where they make you decide how to position them.

[Kim Coles]

Explain callbacks to people so they understand.

[Erica Alexander]

So you go in for an initial audition and that's when they call you. And they're just having people roll through lots and lots. If you get a call back, that means what is sounds like called back. They want you. They're interested in you. But they're still a shootout. It's a shootout like a gunfight. There's other people. You are not competing against them. You are just doing yourself. But you don't know who they're going to pick. There could be three or four, and back in the day, you could go for three, four, five, six, seven. Callback many. They were doing that Partly to test pressure. You know, you pressure test people. You also. Sometime we, you know, Chemistry test. Chemistry test also. They don't know. They don't know. They just keep having you back.

[Kim Coles]

A lot of people just want to see you. Somebody says, I like her and I like her. Well, bring her back in. And puppet.

[Erica Alexander]

Dance puppet. You didn't feel like that, like you getting dragged around? Well, you know what? They put me through it. And.

[Kim Coles]

And you're doing this on two shows. Living Single and this Mantis.

[Erica Alexander]

Mantis, yes, the ninth Steph Raimi brothers, I think, are doing Mantis. And I had just done Going To Extremes with Carl Lumley, who was the lead. He was gonna be. Come on.

[Kim Coles]

Carl Lumley.

[Erica Alexander]

Carl Lumley. The great Carl Lumley, Please. So I was like, I'm gonna be the Lois Lane on this Sci Fi show. That's what I'm do. I'm gonna do this sci Fi show. And they make.

[Kim Coles]

Let's go back to the positioning.

[Erica Alexander]

So they put the positioning in. You've gotta make a deal. First position and second position. I put Living Single, second position, Mantis in first. If I did not get chosen in Mantis on the final callback, I had to audition for Living Single. That's the deal.

[Kim Coles]

Oh, you had to audition or you had to take the deal?

[Erica Alexander]

No, I had to. Meaning they made the deal before you go in the room, they want to know they can afford you. They want to know that you're going to take it. You sign that deal and you sort of set yourself up.

[Kim Coles]

A lot of people don't know that too. That you actually sign the deal before the final. Yes. Happens.

[Erica Alexander]

Yes.

[Kim Coles]

And you.

[Erica Alexander]

Sometimes it's kind of onerous.

[Kim Coles]

Your next five years are like your salary. You'll negotiate it now you go and you renegotiate. But people don't know that you have to sign that deal before the final audition.

[Erica Alexander]

You're the only person who doesn't know anything about what's going on, who signs their life away for six years, five to six years before knowing anything or anyone. So I did. I went in and I stumbled over my feet. I did a. What I think is a horrible audition at Mantis. At Mantis. That was back in the day when they had a ton of people in the room that didn't bother me because I'm a stage actor. I know. In fact, when I feel energy, I'm like, good, let's do this right. You know what I mean? I can transpose their adrenaline, their energy, and press off Some of mine to them in the space, but then also coming to myself because I know they're watching. So there's a little bit of sort of like, you gotta be a little bit of an exhibitionist. Like, okay, watch this. Well, they watched me trip over my feet, make a fool of myself. And I was feeling down. I came out of that, and I was, like, horrified. I cried and cried. I was with my boyfriend, Richard Lyons, at the time. He was like, don't worry, E. Get it together. You need to go back. And now you put it all into the next audition, which I had to do the next day. They were both Fox shows.

[Kim Coles]

Wow.

[Erica Alexander]

Yes. But one was. The other one was for Warner Brothers as a production company. So now the Fox people would see me again, but with Warner Brothers in the room at the same time, still all filled up. But I was like, whatever happened then? You gotta let it go. Put on your little suit that I had. And it was a Shaka King suit I got from Brooklyn. And I did the Max thing. I already had my braids and my locks in that new Loc thing you have Deborah Herbae. And we got it going, and I did it and ended up getting the role. During that time, they kept us in a hotel because often you didn't have a place to stay, and we were bumping around people's houses and whatnot. And I stayed even with Sam Jackson, a friend, and Latonya Jackson, who I didn't play with off Broadway. You know, at some point, I think Sam Jackson was Bill Cosby standing. Not when I was there.

[Kim Coles]

Right, right.

[Erica Alexander]

But, you know, the Jacksons had taken me in all that. I was at a hotel, and that's where I met T.C. we were both auditioning, and T.C. was from Chicago. We had just met, and T.C. was full of energy, and we just loved each other. And that's where we met. I got the show, he got the show. And then I think it was a weekend, and there we were at the table read. So you gotta know, again, our mentality is, we gonna do this show and we may not be back. We're not bonded. We're not bonded to anybody in the room. We're bonded to each other. We don't even know all the dynamics that you're talking about with the package deal. Nothing. We don't find that till years later, you know, that type of affinity. The reason I say that is because we do the pilot reading. And I think somebody has told me this, that they thought I didn't have enough energy at the pilot reading. And they wanted to get rid of me, one of the huge executives.

[Kim Coles]

Did they not even give us a chance? Like, I don't believe that you didn't have energy. I don't remember, girl.

[Erica Alexander]

Do you believe that I didn't have energy? Exactly. Not even so. I know it's a lie. But what they wanted was a different person. So they used that opportunity to say, I think she's looking a little lackluster. I think we got to get rid of Erica Alexander. But what they did not know is that Les Moonves had hired me in a miniseries called Common Ground years ago and was trying to get me in a deal at Lorimar. And my agents didn't let him because they said, Erica doesn't have as many opportunities. We can't lock her in. An exclusive deal for Laura Mar to develop, but.

[Kim Coles]

So you would have been the third wheel if you had said yes to that deal.

[Erica Alexander]

It could have been possible.

[Kim Coles]

Wow.

[Erica Alexander]

But I don't know if he would see me that way, because I'm very dramatic. Common Ground was pure drama.

[Kim Coles]

Okay. Okay.

[Erica Alexander]

Yeah. It was very hardcore about Boston bussing. But anyway, the point is, there I was, and he stuck up for me. And I heard that he called him out and said, if you say anything about Eric Alexander again, I'm gonna kick your ass. And if you. I'm gonna fight you. He said, no one ever said anything bad about you ever again in a room because they knew Les Move had your back. Now, we're talking about very complicated men who in future years, we hear stories. We hear stories, but for us, this is how it went down. I'm just laying out what it is. And these are the people who defended me when I wasn't in the room, who created ways for me when I wasn't in the room, who gave me jobs when I was. And that has to be told, too. So I didn't know that happened. All I know is I went on to be the Maxine Shaw character, not knowing who she was. I met Yvette Lee, met all of y'all. We did it again. We did it. And then we went home. I went back home to New York.

[Kim Coles]

And just waited for the pickup.

[Erica Alexander]

Waited for the pickup. And the pickup wouldn't come till summer. This is all March. So we got me cast. And there's TC now we can both tell that story. I know that TC Came in and he did his thing. He's coming off fresh, doing movies.

[Kim Coles]

Living large.

[Erica Alexander]

Living large. He's a legitimate movie star, you know, with Lisa Arundel, who was the star shout out to Lisa, these are all our friends.

[Kim Coles]

Please.

[Erica Alexander]

Man, TC must have done a great job. We gonna have to come have him come in to tell us exactly what went down. He's a consummate professional and what he had coming in the door was style.

[Kim Coles]

Please.

[Erica Alexander]

Walking in the room. He didn't know that his. The blueprint had style too, but it must have been in the script a bit. He was playing a stockbroker. So he came in dressed, you know, to impress as a professional. He came in with his twin already very much the Chicago person. Everybody knows Chicago people all think they politicians, they come in, they know how to talk.

[Kim Coles]

They know how to talk the flesh.

[Erica Alexander]

Yeah. Building community, saying we gonna go out for dinner. That's T.C. in the flesh. And that's who he was during the show. And so I imagine that besides sort of bonding personally, that that's to this day, how we see each other as outsiders. By the way, I wanna say it's no small thing. Y'all were all light skinned and we were dark. Well, y'all in a package deal that we weren't.

[Kim Coles]

Right, but that doesn't mean that you were.

[Erica Alexander]

Well, no, no, it means that those.

[Kim Coles]

Outsiders, you weren't outsiders for long, that's for sure.

[Erica Alexander]

It's hard to get repped by these agencies and be dark.

[Kim Coles]

Is it really?

[Erica Alexander]

Come on. Was it you acting light skinned now?

[Kim Coles]

Don't do that, Erica. Don't do that. Don't do that.

[Erica Alexander]

I'm being funny.

[Kim Coles]

I'm sensitive. I'mma tell you. Okay, you're being funny. You can't get on now.

[Erica Alexander]

You can't get sensitive.

[Kim Coles]

I'm telling you why I'm sensitive.

[Erica Alexander]

Is it really hard being dark skinned? Is that what.

[Kim Coles]

That's not what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. You said it's hard being dark skinned.

[Erica Alexander]

And getting into the agency. That's what I mean. It is. No, well, listen, it was also. People say that even being a music business that the light skinned people are pushed. There's the same thing now, by the way. Not if you're a man. Actually, it was the opposite. If you're a man, they. For dark skinned actors, it was harder for light skinned actors to avail themselves because dark, let's be real. But for the women, caramel and light was preferred.

[Kim Coles]

I understand that.

[Erica Alexander]

Well, I'm just telling the truth. So you have to understand. Coming.

[Kim Coles]

We didn't ever treat you like you were.

[Erica Alexander]

No, no, that's not. That's never true.

[Kim Coles]

I was gonna say Like, I'm always sensitive to that because I have a mother who's brown skinned and was the darkest one of her sisters and grew up in the south and is aware of the contrast. And it was like, I see you as chocolatey deliciousness. And I'm gonna tell you something else about you and TC it's because of you that we ever even won an Emmy. We didn't win any Emmys for our acting or our writing. Our lighting dude. I asked him, I was like, brian, I was like, what's going on? He says, no. When Erica or tc, they have a special light to illuminate their skin, I'm hooking them up. He won Emmys because of your skin color. So I'm like, it's beautiful. And I. Sometimes when I hear you talk about it, I feel like, is it.

[Erica Alexander]

No, don't take it on, Kim. I talk about it freely because it's my journey.

[Kim Coles]

I got it.

[Erica Alexander]

And I have to speak up for me and TC in that way to say that we're also outsiders in that way. And it's not outside from us. No, it's just how it is. If you come in and everyone sort of has whatever, you just sort of wink at each other, like. And it happens even inside of black communities. We have colorism. We didn't create this really harmful design perception. We're inside of it. So we're protective of each other in that way because we also know that there may be some of that preferential treatment coming. Not from y'all, but it's just what the business is.

[Kim Coles]

Thank you for giving me that other layer, because I'm not. Okay.

[Erica Alexander]

I'm so happy.

[Kim Coles]

You okay? I'm not.

[Erica Alexander]

I'm not.

[Kim Coles]

I'm not aware of that because it immediately. I. I don't see. I don't see it that way. Like I said, I. You know, I grew up in a household with a mother who's brown skinned and was very. You know, the contrast was. Was. Was talked about and, And. And all the things. In fact, my summers were the best because I would get extra money to go to the beach and get brown like a berry like her. And then we would compare arms like, look, you brown like me.

[Erica Alexander]

There's people walking around like me with bleach creams, right?

[Kim Coles]

Yes.

[Erica Alexander]

And that's. That's what we're talking about. And so that's got to speak to, hopefully why the 90s was successful. I talk about it a lot because I'm dark skinned. I'm not even the darkest skinned person in the room. But I talk about it because somebody needs to talk about it. To say that we carry the burden in the room of not just our talent, but of the race. The race is in a conversation that's colorism, too. Not because we created it, because we're in these United States. And one of the things that they could do is separate us, separate us with this. Not this conversation, but distinguish us different. And that's not your fault. I just love the fact that that's our family. We put it together, we come in as equals. But I'm saying our mindsets also can be different. Me and T.C.

[Kim Coles]

Okay?

[Erica Alexander]

That's all. And that don't have nothing to do with the love and the treatment we got from anybody and the respect that you receive from your talent and for your skills. Let me be clear.

[Kim Coles]

Okay, good.

[Erica Alexander]

Yeah. Because I would never want that you to feel if that was the case. Yeah.

[Kim Coles]

Okay.

[Erica Alexander]

But I hear you. So, Kim, we have a lot of ingredients out there. You know, some good stuff happening. You've told us the beginning of the beginning. Love that. I'm telling you how I'm coming in. But there was a whole thing going on in this industry that was new, and it was going on with fox.

[Kim Coles]

Fox. So we have a brand new network. So we all grew up, at least I grew up with the three. Abc, NBC, cbs. And then we have this brand new network that's new and different and, you know, deciding what their tone was gonna be, what their brand was gonna be.

[Erica Alexander]

They had a FOX strategy. They had to have a strategy because to come in with ABC and CBS and NBC, you're talking about. They had to come in and build someplace else.

[Kim Coles]

Right. And so they built with communities that had not been seen. So, yes, you had Cosby on NBC, but I think that Fox decided to go young, to go urban, to go black, to go Latino. You know, they decided to go a whole other direction.

[Erica Alexander]

For a lot of people, urban is a right. Urban means that. So they go into with the marginalized communities because that's where you can build.

[Kim Coles]

Also, because the strategy changed at some point. And we'll get to that in a moment. I remember auditioning for a Living Color, and I remember the energy was, this is a new network. This. We're gonna be doing new things. It's gonna be, you can be black, you can be urban, you can be all these things. And it was expected that this new place was gonna be a place for us. Right. And I don't think I was aware of it then. It was, you Know, having some distance from it to really understand, see that and understand that. And so it was scrappy, right? It was colorful, colorful, energetic. And they were tapping into hip hop models.

[Erica Alexander]

So that's actually the key part is because they're recognizing that hip hop is. Is not a thing that's gonna go away. In fact, they're digging into a hole, not a genre, but generations that are now gonna be raised on this.

[Kim Coles]

Right. And even so that on In Living Color, you know, we had a dj, we invited hip hop artists to come and perform. You know, it's a variety show, but not done the old school way, done this whole new way. And I remember it being the hottest thing, like, and the numbers were. And in fact, we shot the pilot for the Living Color and the show didn't get picked up for like a year or so. People had made bootleg tapes like you could go up to Harlem and buy. Cause somebody said, I saw you on.

[Erica Alexander]

This show, Living Color on the bootleg.

[Kim Coles]

Buying the tapes in front before it's.

[Erica Alexander]

Even on the tapestry in front of the Apollo Theater.

[Kim Coles]

Because I was hilarious at the Apollo. Since somebody said, I saw you on a show like, what show? Living Color. Like, how did you get in Living Color in the. Boo. They were bootlegging and selling on the show.

[Erica Alexander]

I wonder if that was part of the weigh in strategy to say, we're going to make sure that this goes make. Let's put it out there and make.

[Kim Coles]

Sure we drive a question.

[Erica Alexander]

That's excellent.

[Kim Coles]

They have people talking about it.

[Erica Alexander]

Living Color was one of those things that just changed everything. And in fact, I heard recently that they. We wouldn't even have halftime if Living Color, they played it at halftime and it got more ratings than the football.

[Kim Coles]

Game during the Super Bowl.

[Erica Alexander]

That's when they realized during the super bowl we had a marketing position was there.

[Kim Coles]

Cause it was put on Fox, I think that season playing on. And so we created like some sketches of some. So the break was this halftime show with this.

[Erica Alexander]

Everybody tuned for that. Even more so than the show. Yeah, that's culture, our culture driving demand.

[Kim Coles]

You're welcome.

[Erica Alexander]

So this Fox strategy for them was to build and create content for marginalized communities that may have been missing outside of the traditional networks. That's right. And we helped build a whole business plan.

[Kim Coles]

A whole business plan.

[Erica Alexander]

Yes.

[Kim Coles]

And shows were created that spoke to that audience. And that audience felt as if they had a place they could go that was just for them.

[Erica Alexander]

It's so ironic that, you know, the amount of black and brown talent that.

[Kim Coles]

Came out of that.

[Erica Alexander]

Came out of there.

[Kim Coles]

And then the strategy changed. And I remember when Living Single got canceled, a new network president was brought in and he decided that he wanted to take it a different direction. And it didn't work right away. It didn't work at all. Because now you're like, record scratch, scrap. We're gonna go in a different direction. It's like, no, we built this, we built this city.

[Erica Alexander]

But everybody was kind of going that way. Because what happened was the segregation of tv. And frankly, on our watch, that's why we talk about, at least I talk about the difference between a so called black show and a show with a black cast. Up until that point, I didn't think anyone described a show as a black show until Fox.

[Kim Coles]

Mm. I think that's.

[Erica Alexander]

I did. I never said Jefferson was a black show. I never said what's happening was a black show, was a black show or any of that. You just said even, even Sanford and Son wasn't a black show. That was a show with, you know, the great Red Fox.

[Kim Coles]

Red Fox, Wanda Page and them. Yeah.

[Erica Alexander]

Then suddenly, no, that's a black show. Why is that distinguished? Why is that problematic? I say because if you are suddenly in a space where somebody can create a narrative around you, they can also create that landscape to have drought, to say, we don't have to support that show because the black people are watching, it's a black show.

[Kim Coles]

I hear what you're saying about, you know, then you, you segregate and you give it a title and you're right, it then marginalizes or categorizes it as one thing. You're right. I don't think Sanford and was ever called a black show. But I think that something happened when that title started being used. I think our communities began to go, we have ownership on this. This is our show. We have. You know, to this day when people go, I still watch Living Single, you belong to us. So I think there's one part that's setting aside and there's a part that then becomes, we get you're special because you belong to us.

[Erica Alexander]

I understand that. But they said that about Cosby show and no one ever called that a black show. They. That about Will Smith, meaning they owned it.

[Kim Coles]

I do think it was returned. But we know that the Cosby show, you know, here's the thing about the Cosby show and Will Smith's show is that we know that it had a wide, wide audience. And we know that we had a wide, wide audience. So someone determined call it a Black show. I think that that meant that black folks got to go. This is uniquely ours. Y'all can have.

[Erica Alexander]

Black folks didn't pick it. That's what I'm saying. Executives picked it. It is an executive's decision, an executive decision to set and say, if it's a black show, we will only give it that much money. We will only give it this much marketing, only this promotion. I have no problem with calling it a black show if I didn't think that that stemmed the tide of concerted effort to promote, invest and market. But that's where my criticism comes because I see, I saw the difference. I was on the number one show in the world. That will never happen again like it happened. And I got to see that, that's unique in the world. But I also got to see being on the number one so called black show. And what the difference was in their minds was to me, night and day.

[Kim Coles]

However, understand that you're talking NBC, bigger budgets. You have Bill Cosby, who, you know, at the time, one of the biggest, biggest, biggest ever, right? And then you've got Fox, who. My complaint about Fox is that yes, they, you know, they, they had a strategy, but they also didn't put the money into the show. So we didn't have the same anything that the network shows had. Here's what Fox would do though. It was really interesting. So you had to have a certain number of hours on per week in order to be considered a network. So they were the fourth network when it was convenient for them. Like, oh, we're the fourth. We're coming in, we're the baby, we're brand new network. And then when you would want more money, more, more resources, they go, oh, well, we don't really have the same number of hours as NBC. And they say we really don't have the same advertising. We really don't have the same. So they were a network when it worked for them and they were not like, oh, we're just the baby network. Yeah, we're the next new guys coming in. Oh, we're just. So they played. That was also part of their strategy. So we don't have the budget. So you're comparing, you know, NBC to, to Fox.

[Erica Alexander]

Let me just compare then Fox to Fox. There's X Files, right? And there's also Ally McBeal. I can assure you that when we went on those tours, those press tours, when we got off the tour, they kept going. I went up to one of the promotions, said, why aren't we going to Peoria? And all these other places, and they had no explanation. This is one of the ways that I started to learn about the back half of not only of marketing, but then later on syndication, where I started asking questions and saying what goes into all of that? And there really is more than just a strategy. Past our initial showing, there's where they promote 100% to try to get people to know that, as we say, people love living single all over, but they.

[Kim Coles]

Didn'T want to spend the money to.

[Erica Alexander]

Sell us, to send us their seller and to promote because they thought it was a market that wouldn't be receptive. That never filled the people's minds when they were doing. I'm not saying it didn't happen. I'm saying that was you on NBC. You were on NBC right after Archie Bunker. They needed that same audience to stay there and lock in, so they made sure that the people knew about it. And that's all I'm saying. When you start to segregate, you start to pick and choose the winners, and you also start to pick where they. And that right there is death in business. That's just a conversation about business overall. But that's also a type of thinking that still was penetrating and starting to displace our power.

[Kim Coles]

What I love about living single and what I will say over and over and over again is that we had a wide range of audience and ages and people and people sitting down to watch it together that will be listening to this too.

[Erica Alexander]

So we got give props because we were there because of that. Didn't matter whether it was recognized or not. We were number one.

[Kim Coles]

It was recognized. It was number one.

[Erica Alexander]

Number one. And also beloved in many households. Very much so. And I'm grateful for that because I think that our audience found us.

[Kim Coles]

They did. And here's what's interesting, is that if we can, you know, we can give them a little bit of budget and they go to number one, then. Oh, then they're fine. It's like what would have happened if they given the big bucks and, you know, to hear the salaries that were happening over on the other lot or with the other shows is, you know, it's disheartening at best with our little raggedy trailers, you know, we had trailers out in the middle of a parking lot and, you know, surrounded like the OK Corral with a bunch of feral cats on this lot and, you know, and brush that hadn't been cleared in years. And we made magic. We made magic. And our first craft service guy, you know, it was a. A bunch of eggs and I think in a vat of vinegar or something. I was like, that's craft services. And it changed, and we made it better, and we made it work, and we made magic. And I'm proud of that.

[Erica Alexander]

I'm proud of you.

[Kim Coles]

And it lasts to this day, and.

[Erica Alexander]

I like reminiscing with you about it.

[Kim Coles]

I love this.

[Erica Alexander]

I wouldn't want to do this with anybody else.

[Kim Coles]

I wouldn't want to do this with anybody else.

[Erica Alexander]

We just had so much fun. I think we should do this more. Don't you think?

[Kim Coles]

You think so?

[Erica Alexander]

I think so.

[Kim Coles]

You think we should do this again?

[Erica Alexander]

I'd like a rewatch.

[Kim Coles]

Like, watch the show.

[Erica Alexander]

Well, rewatch the show.

[Kim Coles]

Rewatch the show.

[Erica Alexander]

Yeah.

[Kim Coles]

And talk about it.

[Erica Alexander]

Talk about it and add some of the, you know, the color and behind.

[Kim Coles]

The scenes, give people a look behind the curtain. I think I'm down.

[Erica Alexander]

Okay. Reliving Single.

[Kim Coles]

Reliving Single. Like a living single Rewatch podcast where we relive the show with the people. We could relive it.

[Erica Alexander]

Relive it. They won't.

[Kim Coles]

I don't like that.

[Erica Alexander]

Yes, yes.

[Kim Coles]

It's a show they won't ever let us forget.

[Erica Alexander]

No, they won't let us forget it.

[Kim Coles]

I like the red table because we get to share all the stuff, but you don't like the red table.

[Erica Alexander]

Well, you know, that's not our vibe.

[Kim Coles]

That's not our.

[Erica Alexander]

You know what? More props to it.

[Kim Coles]

Right?

[Erica Alexander]

You know, it seems to stimulate.

[Kim Coles]

It does.

[Erica Alexander]

It does agitate and stimulate conversation. We need to get our own vibe here. So. Yeah, we need a little something different.

[Kim Coles]

Oh, okay. What about nice, nice, nice cushy seeds?

[Erica Alexander]

What about logo? Yeah, that's what we needed. All right, all right.

[Kim Coles]

It's official now. Oh. Oh. And we can't begin anything without.

[Erica Alexander]

Oh, come on. You see my chair. My chair. Welcome to Reliving Single, the official unofficial Rewatch podcast.

[Kim Coles]

Reliving Single is hosted by Erica Alexander and me, Kim Coles. Reliving Single is a production of Heartbeat in association with Color Farm Media, executive produced by Kevin Hart, Jeff Clanagan, Eric Eddings, Leslie Guam, Erica Alexander and Ben R. Nan. This show is produced by Kim Coles. Amber Watford is our senior producer. Our associate producer is Kenny Jackson. Our video editor is Shannon Joy Rogers. Our sound engineers are Eric Hicks and Cedric Wilson. Production supervision by Razak Boykin. Additional production support from Alex Atkins and Z. Taylor. And a Special thanks to Dr. E.J. john.