When Men Show Up featuring TC Carson

Summary

ReLiving Single: “When Men Show Up” (feat. TC Carson)

Podcast: ReLiving Single
Hosts: Erika Alexander, Kim Coles
Guest: T.C. Carson ("Kyle Barker" from Living Single)
Release Date: October 22, 2025
Main Theme: Exploring masculinity, Black love, and the cultural legacy of Living Single—especially focusing on the episode "Five Card Stud" and the evolving conversation around how Black men show up to support Black women.

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Episode Overview

This episode features a heartfelt and funny reunion between hosts Erika Alexander (Maxine Shaw), Kim Coles (Synclaire James), and their guest, T.C. Carson (Kyle Barker). Together, they revisit the Living Single episode "Five Card Stud," reflect on depictions of Black masculinity and friendship, and discuss the show's enduring cultural impact—particularly regarding protection, respect, and trust between Black men and Black women.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Revisiting "Five Card Stud" (03:40–14:40)

• Plot Recap: Kyle faces a moral dilemma when his colleague, who is dating Regine, spreads lies about her. Kyle must choose between career advancement and defending his friend.
• Behind the Scenes: The cast recalls guest stars, wardrobe choices, and the dynamic between Kyle and Overton.
• Cultural Relevance: The episode's themes of workplace loyalty, sexism, and Black male responsibility continue to resonate.

"Either way, there's risk on both sides...you lose your job, you lose your friend."
— T.C. Carson (12:33)

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2. Male Friendship and Representation (05:41–06:49)

• T.C. Carson reflects on the contrast between Kyle's sophistication and Overton's "down-home" charm.
• The cast highlights the importance of authentic, multidimensional Black male characters.

"It was really nice to see the sophistication but to see the down home stuff really outweigh the sophistication."
— T.C. Carson (05:41)

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3. Black Men Protecting Black Women (26:09–27:35, Reverb Section)

• The group discusses the show's portrayal of Black men standing up for Black women, stressing its rarity both then and now.
• T.C. Carson and Kim Coles invoke Malcolm X’s quote about Black women's societal position, emphasizing the importance of allyship.

"I think that's one of the things that in our community that we kind of are losing. I don't think we take care of the kids and the women in our community."
— T.C. Carson (26:13)

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4. Healthy vs. Toxic Masculinity (27:22–27:37)

• Kyle and Overton are cited as examples of healthy masculinity—protective, supportive, and loving—contrasted with toxic tropes in media and real life.
• Both men believed Black women, pushed back against workplace disparagement, and modeled respect.

"Fragile and toxic masculinity versus healthy masculinity, which you and Overton, the Kyle character, were versions of."
— Kim Coles (27:25)

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5. The "Manosphere" and Modern Relationship Critiques (27:36–32:15)

• The hosts unpack the rise of online influencers who promote misogynistic and harmful narratives about Black women (e.g., Kevin Samuels, Andrew Tate).
• They critique the fixation on materialism, beauty standards, and transactional concepts of value in relationships, noting its emotional toll on Black women.

"If you have a fixation on beauty and all of these outward materialistic things, you never ask that person, what are your dreams? ... it's so cruel."
— Kim Coles (28:57)

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6. Relationship Dynamics, Femininity, and Partnership (30:29–32:15)

• Erika and Kim stress that partnership is about reciprocity, care, and mutual support—not about submission or hierarchy.
• They argue for defining relationships personally, outside societal or digital expectations.

"I do think there's something really okay with...a give and take. He does the same for me."
— Erika Alexander (30:29)

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7. Social Media, Dating Culture, and Loneliness (32:15–34:18)

• T.C. Carson reflects on the pressures of social media and AI-driven "fakeness" in modern dating.
• Rapid “swiping” can lead to anxiety and a lack of relationship skills.

"This puts so much pressure...on everybody...to present something a certain way. Even if you don't have it, you can make it up."
— T.C. Carson (32:29)

• Living Single provided positive examples of Black men in relationships, shaping viewers’ real-life expectations and behavior.

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8. Black Love: The Max and Kyle Romance (38:32–41:49)

• Listener question: “Were Max and Kyle a good representation of Black love, given their rocky beginning?”
• T.C. Carson says their storyline was “a universal love story,” but significant for centering two dark-skinned Black characters as romantic leads.
• Kim emphasizes their dynamic negotiation, boundaries, and Max’s independence.

"I tell you, it was the love affair of my lifetime. It really was. I got to do it on screen. Yay."
— T.C. Carson (41:17)

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9. Cultural Impact & Emmy Overlook (21:10–21:53)

• The cast laments how Black sitcoms were rarely recognized with major awards, despite handling significant, timely issues.
• Living Single’s influence extended beyond laughs to community uplift and representation.

"Black sitcoms were never really looked at as Emmy material. And that's one of the reasons...they were seen as black sitcoms as opposed to sitcoms."
— Kim Coles (21:40)

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10. Music, Sexuality, and Shifting Cultural Norms (36:09–37:22)

• Discussion veers to how music lyrics and media about sexuality have changed, sometimes leaving young women scared or overwhelmed by explicitness.
• Hosts recall earlier eras when lyrics emphasized love and vulnerability.
• There's a call to "support the lovers" and reject hostility in cultural products.

"We need more duets...We need love. And if we start rejecting all of this hostility...and start to bring in the lovers...the art will sell."
— Kim Coles & T.C. Carson (36:50–37:22)

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Notable Quotes and Moments

• "Every time I hear a brother call a girl a bitch, trying to make a sister feel low, you know, all of that's got to go."
  — Kim Coles quoting Queen Latifah, referencing UNITY (00:34, 18:52)

• "Can a brother get some popcorn?"
  — T.C. Carson, comic relief during poker night scene (11:10, recurring)

• “We learned real early that it was something special for our community, which is why we fought for the things we fought for. Because it wasn't...a throwaway.”
  — T.C. Carson (33:36)

• "I want people to know how much we love men. Kim is always talking about that conversation."
  — Erika Alexander (34:20)

• "It was the love affair of my lifetime. ...I got to do it on screen. Yay."
  — T.C. Carson on Max and Kyle (41:17)

• "You all can't get rid of me. It's too late."
  — T.C. Carson on the enduring bonds of the cast (41:49)

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Important Timestamps

• Intro/mini opening banter: 00:00–01:13
• Recap and episode set-up: 03:40–05:41
• Behind the scenes & character dynamics: 05:41–07:15
• Morality, loyalty, and workplace dilemmas: 11:51–14:40
• Poker night, gender dynamics, & Queen Latifah meta-moment: 16:04–20:47
• Reverb segment: Black men protecting Black women: 26:09–27:35
• Manosphere and relationship commentators: 27:36–32:15
• Modern dating pressures & social media: 32:15–34:18
• Listener Q: Max & Kyle’s love: 38:32–41:49
• Closing reflections on community, healthy love, and gratitude: 41:56–43:13

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Tone & Style

The conversation maintains a lighthearted, candid, and deeply affectionate tone, peppered with inside jokes, mutual respect, and knowledgeable analysis. The hosts are unafraid to tackle tough topics—like sexism, toxic masculinity, cultural misrepresentation, and the importance of healthy relationships—while always rooting their commentary in lived experience, community love, and hope for the future.

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Conclusion

This episode stands out as one of the most reflective and honest yet, blending nostalgia and critical discussion. The cast’s on- and off-screen chemistry drives home why Living Single remains a touchstone for discussions of Black love, masculinity, and communal responsibility. Listeners old and new are reminded: showing up for each other is radical, beautiful, and necessary—on television and in real life.

Transcript

[Erica Alexander]

Coming up on Reliving Single, TC Car set.

[Kim Coles]

So I think this show was important because it showed black men protecting black women.

[T.C. Carson]

Absolutely.

[Erica Alexander]

I know that if I'm gonna go this way, you're gonna go that way.

[Kim Coles]

That's true.

[Erica Alexander]

Here it comes.

[T.C. Carson]

Can a brother get some popcorn? I ain't saying you a gold digger.

[Erica Alexander]

She's a hunter. And that's her last name.

[T.C. Carson]

Is that what you call it?

[Kim Coles]

So you've done nudes?

[T.C. Carson]

Yes. I haven't done a couple in theater.

[Kim Coles]

Did you see people in the audience with binoculars?

[T.C. Carson]

You didn't?

[Kim Coles]

Every time I hear a brother call a girl a bitch trying to make a sister feel low, you know, all of that's got to go.

[T.C. Carson]

I tell you, it was the love affair of my lifetime. I got to do it on screen. Yay.

[Kim Coles]

I go again. I'm gonna cry. Thank you.

[T.C. Carson]

Thank.

[Erica Alexander]

Welcome back to Reliving Single, the official unofficial living Single rewatch podcast. And this week, we are so excited to have the cruise Lothario TC car set.

[T.C. Carson]

What's that?

[Erica Alexander]

Oh. So happy to have you. So happy to have you. Let's talk about Kyle.

[Kim Coles]

Kyle? Yeah. He was a stockbroker.

[T.C. Carson]

Yes, he was.

[Kim Coles]

Yes, he was. And he represented a lot of what? The ladies.

[T.C. Carson]

Self Proclaimed ladies man.

[Kim Coles]

Okay.

[Erica Alexander]

What do you mean self?

[T.C. Carson]

And he was.

[John Henton]

Well, you know, he had to tell.

[T.C. Carson]

You if he was really doing it, he wouldn't have to tell you so much.

[Erica Alexander]

Interesting. All this time, I thought he was getting it.

[John Henton]

He was getting a little.

[T.C. Carson]

He was.

[Erica Alexander]

He was getting less than we think.

[T.C. Carson]

He was a little bit. Well, you know, once. Once he fell for crazy.

[Erica Alexander]

Yeah, exactly.

[Kim Coles]

Wait a minute. Still crazy. After all these years, you think he wasn't getting as much? That's interesting. Okay, well, that's interesting.

[Erica Alexander]

That's not something I would have known. I believed that you were out there every night. Every night.

[T.C. Carson]

But before.

[Erica Alexander]

Before you fell in love with crazy.

[T.C. Carson]

Yeah.

[Erica Alexander]

You toned it down. Cause you were waiting to slip in there.

[Kim Coles]

Well, you know, what the hell is this? Before I fell in love with crazy.

[T.C. Carson]

Uh huh.

[Kim Coles]

What the.

[Erica Alexander]

I love that. I love that character.

[T.C. Carson]

With Ms. Munch a lot.

[Kim Coles]

Right? I can see how this is gon.

[Erica Alexander]

Right.

[Kim Coles]

Okay, well, this me living single is a spicy one. Now you see that already? Y' all ready to get going on this?

[T.C. Carson]

Let's go, let's go. Those who lead deserve a car that leads with them. Because a car that doesn't move you is a car that falls short of amazing. That's the Lexus standard. The standard of amazing.

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[John Henton]

It'S time for the rewind. We're here to rewatch and relive Living Single with you.

[Erica Alexander]

I sound like a Muppet.

[T.C. Carson]

All right, it's a full house. In this week's Living Single episode, Five Card Stud, season one, episode 23, Kyle Barker has a dilemma when his work colleague starts dating Regine and then begins spreading lies about her. Will Kyle stay silent to climb the corporate ladder, or will he stand up for Regine? In other words, is Kyle a about the bros before hoes? Meanwhile, Max and Claire and Khadijah aren't here for the boys club, and they crash Kyle's men's only poker night to stir things all the way up.

[Erica Alexander]

All right, it's written by Bara Grant and Ian Prazor, directed by Bob Schiller. We have some amazing guest stars this week. We have Bobby Hosea.

[Kim Coles]

Bobby Hosea.

[Erica Alexander]

Lawrence as Lawrence. You've seen him in Independence Day and the Young and the Restless and Lincoln Heights. Phil Lewis as JT You've seen him on the Wayans Brothers and Suite Life of Zack and Cody and Friends. And by the way, he's directing the show that I'm on right now called Vampirina. I just saw him and enjoyed working with him.

[T.C. Carson]

Nice.

[Erica Alexander]

And Jonathan Nichols Navarro as Dean from the Hunger Games, Rise of the Planet of the Apes, Zack Snyder's Justice League.

[Kim Coles]

Full house there.

[Erica Alexander]

Full house.

[Kim Coles]

Full house. Literally. Let's do it.

[T.C. Carson]

How do I look? Huh?

[John Henton]

You look like Blacula.

[T.C. Carson]

You know what your problem is?

[John Henton]

You do not appreciate fine clothing, as evidenced by the Jethro jumpsuit. Change. Don't wanna change. Come on, Overton, man. It's not every day I get asked to host the executive poker game. So you want me to kiss a little corporate ass, huh? Man, whatever happened to hard work and dignity?

[T.C. Carson]

I am dignity, all right?

[John Henton]

And it took hard work to get into this game. I have been waiting over a year and a half to hear those magic words.

[T.C. Carson]

Fred died and you're in.

[Kim Coles]

Even though Overton says you look like Bakula. I think you look really nice.

[Erica Alexander]

Kyle's very handsome. Always did, always does.

[T.C. Carson]

Well, thank you, thank you, thank you. I really like the juxtaposition of the two guys, their friendship. I really, like, it's really nice to see the sophistication, but to see the down home stuff really outweigh the sophistication.

[Erica Alexander]

A lot of times, I always wanted to know how much you infused you into the wardrobe, into the costumes.

[T.C. Carson]

Cecy allowed me a wide berth to play because she had all these women to dress, and it was really a lot to dress, y'. All. Yeah, it really was.

[Kim Coles]

And Ceci was our stylist and costumer.

[T.C. Carson]

Excuse me.

[Kim Coles]

For most of the time we were there.

[T.C. Carson]

So she would bring things for me, and she would say, you know what you think, and let me put it together.

[Erica Alexander]

And then he gives you this hard line about what happened to hard work. And I don't think for an instant that that Kyle did not work hard at the office. So it was. You were willing to kiss a little tail in order to. You were willing to play the game, right? Play the game.

[T.C. Carson]

Play the game.

[Erica Alexander]

But you worked hard as well.

[T.C. Carson]

But again, you have to play the game. Yeah, we play the game all the time in Hollywood, you know, you choose what game to play, though.

[Kim Coles]

What are we playing? Uno. I mean, can I get some other players up in this mug? Monopoly. That's right.

[Erica Alexander]

I'm playing.

[T.C. Carson]

Jack, we playing. Sorry.

[Kim Coles]

Sorry, we late, but you forgot to.

[T.C. Carson]

Thank you. Thank you. And pay you later.

[Kim Coles]

Bye. Oh, poker.

[Erica Alexander]

My game.

[John Henton]

Uh, my game.

[T.C. Carson]

A man's game.

[Kim Coles]

What are you saying, we're too wimpy to play?

[Erica Alexander]

I'm overton. I'd love to stay, but it's time for solidarity. Come on, Regine. Uh, excuse you, but I left my mama in Jersey.

[John Henton]

You're a very beautiful woman, and I would love to have dinner with you tomorrow night.

[Kim Coles]

Well, this is awfully sudden.

[John Henton]

Well, I'm suddenly very interested in getting to know you.

[Erica Alexander]

Suddenly, I'm free.

[John Henton]

My promotion is riding on that man's recommendation, all right? And if he ends up hating you, he could end up hating me. If this doesn't work out, pretend you don't know me, forget you ever knew me. Act like you never met me.

[Kim Coles]

All right, Done.

[Erica Alexander]

What I was really honed in on was you understanding that if Ray Jean dated your boss and the boss didn't like her, that it could end up jeopardizing you. So even though there might be, who knows? It could have been a love match where you're like, no, no, no, no, no. Don't mess this up.

[T.C. Carson]

It was important for me to let Regean know not to mess up. Yeah, because you know, she. Regime.

[Erica Alexander]

Regime be regin.

[T.C. Carson]

Yeah, and I Didn't want her, you know, whatever she was doing to interfer with what I was trying to do. Right.

[Erica Alexander]

Okay.

[T.C. Carson]

And I know my friend. So I wanted to pull up Coachell early. And again, you all are up there just to mess with Kyle.

[Kim Coles]

That's true.

[T.C. Carson]

It's not really about playing poker.

[Erica Alexander]

You can't party without us.

[T.C. Carson]

Right. It's just to interrupt his evening.

[Kim Coles]

We ain't up to no good.

[T.C. Carson]

No, you're never up to any good. Not when it comes to Kyle. Maxine is. Come on.

[Kim Coles]

Fine. For sure.

[T.C. Carson]

So let me ask you a question. Do you think Regine was right for staying?

[Erica Alexander]

I see why Regine stayed. He's a good man with a good job. We know that he's your boss, so we know that he's doing well. He's handsome, he's flattering her, which she loves. Like, okay, you know, so why wouldn't she stay?

[T.C. Carson]

I ain't saying you a gold digger.

[Erica Alexander]

With a potential there. She's a hunter. And that's her last name for Regenera.

[T.C. Carson]

Is that what you call her name?

[Kim Coles]

Is Regine Hunter?

[T.C. Carson]

No, but I'm saying she's a hunter. She's a hunt. She's a huntress.

[Erica Alexander]

Oh, she's definitely a hunter.

[Kim Coles]

I mean, we never gonna beat those guys if we don't know their weaknesses.

[Erica Alexander]

Overton said he could read those guys like a book. He won $150 from them.

[Kim Coles]

Oh, yeah. Are we gonna get him to rat out the other players?

[Erica Alexander]

Oh, please, He's a man, isn't he?

[Kim Coles]

I like that. They didn't just leave. They're now saying, how can we not only beat them like, but also cheat and beat them.

[Erica Alexander]

Cheat?

[Kim Coles]

Yeah, because they're asking, we need to know their weaknesses. They don't just wanna beat them by luck. They're like, we need to know something about them. Is that cheating?

[Erica Alexander]

I don't think that's cheating. I think that's just information. It's just information.

[Kim Coles]

That's right. Because you see, Sinclair is really crafty. So who's just playing the crafty?

[Erica Alexander]

No, but listen. But when you don't, you. The thing is that you gotta learn someone's tells you. We've been friends long enough that I know your tell. I know your tell. And that's just information. Is that really cheating? What a tell.

[Kim Coles]

Okay, yes, I understand.

[Erica Alexander]

You each have quirks and ways. And you do too. No doubt, no doubt, no doubt.

[Kim Coles]

I know your tell.

[Erica Alexander]

Well, that's one of your tells. One of your tells is to go straight for Conflict every time.

[Kim Coles]

Is that a tell or is that a maneuver? I think it's a maneuver. A tale is something that if I don't want to give something away, you can still tell it no matter what.

[Erica Alexander]

Right?

[Kim Coles]

Cause I start blinking a lot or something.

[Erica Alexander]

Right? Right. No. So in the realm. I'm calling it a tell. It's in the realm of quirks and ways and ways that you have and things that you do as a maneuver. And it's a tell. I know that if I'm gonna go this way, you're gonna go that way. Here it comes.

[Kim Coles]

That's true.

[Erica Alexander]

So maybe it's not the exact definition of tell, but that's also another one.

[Kim Coles]

What other one is it?

[T.C. Carson]

Can a brother get some popcorn?

[John Henton]

I'm telling you, this girl practically ripped my shirt off, dawg. And then she asked if I wanted to try it standing up, so I opened the sunroof. Sunroof.

[T.C. Carson]

You lucky dog. I guess that temp wasn't as chilly as we thought, huh?

[John Henton]

Tim, we're talking about regime. And I'm not one to forget a favor, my brother. Good move hooking Lawrence up with the freak. You are on your way up.

[Kim Coles]

Single guys get all the breaks.

[T.C. Carson]

Yeah, lucky me.

[Kim Coles]

So we had men at work, and they're bragging. They're bragging and they're boasting again, we think it's the temp. And then we find out, no, it's not the temp. But that kind of conversation, is that appropriate at work. And does that happen at work?

[T.C. Carson]

It happens at work all the time. But is it inappropriate? No, not really.

[Kim Coles]

It was even more acceptable maybe in the 90s than now, don't you think?

[Erica Alexander]

Why come to work and brag about all this that happened?

[T.C. Carson]

Well, probably cause he doesn't really do much at all. So you have to try to stay bmoc, Big man on campus.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah, but the pressure's on Kyle. Like, is he gonna stay loyal to his buddies at work, or is he going to be loyal to his neighbors and friends?

[T.C. Carson]

Either way, there's risk on both sides.

[Kim Coles]

Okay, so what are the risks? Like, job.

[T.C. Carson]

You lose your job, you lose your friend.

[Erica Alexander]

I love in that scene, though. We don't know. You know, you are, for lack of a better word, crestfallen at that moment because you're like, what just. What just happened? Are you think. Do you think that Kyle is thinking my friend is lying? Are you thinking like, my friend?

[T.C. Carson]

Oh, no. He knows Rachin didn't do that.

[Erica Alexander]

Okay, there you go.

[T.C. Carson]

He knows Rachel didn't Do that.

[Erica Alexander]

Yeah.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah. That's not her.

[T.C. Carson]

That's not her. No, it's too easy. No, he got. He didn't buy her anything. Oh, my God.

[Kim Coles]

What are you saying? That's real?

[T.C. Carson]

Come on. It's Regine. There was no Tiffany's. There was no, you know.

[Erica Alexander]

No, but she might not have given it up for any of that either.

[T.C. Carson]

She might, but at least it would have been a conversation.

[Kim Coles]

It been more on brand. Yeah.

[Erica Alexander]

Kim is gonna call you after that.

[Kim Coles]

That's true. When?

[T.C. Carson]

I'd say he was brilliant at this. Yeah.

[Erica Alexander]

Yes, sir.

[John Henton]

Why must you do that now? If not now, when? If not me, who? What you so testy about, man? You know, always buff on the 15th. Oh, yes. The Ides of Overton. All right, man. You know how Regime went out with Lawrence the other night, right?

[T.C. Carson]

Right.

[John Henton]

Today, man, at the office. He was telling all these lies, talking about Regine like she was some kind of skeeze. So you went off on him, and now you're afraid he's gonna ruin your job, huh? Well, hey, you do the right thing, brother.

[T.C. Carson]

Go ahead. Hit that rock. I'm sorry, man.

[John Henton]

You said nothing. Well, look, it's not like I haven't been agonizing over this all day. I mean, I know Regine doesn't deserve to be dragged through the gutter so Lawrence can feel like a man, but it's none of my business, right?

[T.C. Carson]

Sure.

[John Henton]

Long as you don't mind not sleeping at night. I could get a lot of reading done.

[Kim Coles]

First. Have to talk a little bit about that dance that John Hinton does, that Overton does. It's so good. He's buffing the floors and he's got this big machine and all the furniture's cleared away, and he's got these slick wood floors, and there he does this great comedic dance.

[Erica Alexander]

Big machine, big band. And it felt very Jerry Lewis to me. Yes, it felt. I've said many times that John Hinton has encyclopedic knowledge of comedy and physical comedy, and he was probably borrowing from a few and making it his own. And that's a dance John would do. And it was just glorious to watch.

[Kim Coles]

Yes, yeah, absolutely.

[Erica Alexander]

And on the 15th, he buffs the floors. I love that.

[T.C. Carson]

The Ides of Overton.

[Erica Alexander]

The Ides of Overton.

[Kim Coles]

Maybe we should call Overton maybe the moral leader of the living single men right now.

[T.C. Carson]

Right?

[Erica Alexander]

Right.

[Kim Coles]

Because you're not. The dark horse is not winning right now. The light horse is. But that kind of mirrors Sinclair's. You beauty and honesty and integrity that's why they kind of go together. They compliment each other, but they also, you know, are very similar.

[Erica Alexander]

Look. I love it. It's beautiful.

[Kim Coles]

Can you beat a pair of eights?

[Erica Alexander]

Hell yes. Well, what about that? Full house, baby.

[John Henton]

I did not come here to get waxed by these bitch. Uh, who you calling a bitch?

[Kim Coles]

All right, watch yourself. He said it all.

[John Henton]

No, no, no, no.

[Erica Alexander]

I said it all.

[John Henton]

Hold up, hold up. I think Kyle gonna handle this one. How dare you come in my house and disrespect my friends and talking all that garbage about Regine yesterday. Man, who do you think you are?

[T.C. Carson]

Wait a minute.

[Kim Coles]

Let's back it up here. Back it up, back it up, back it up.

[Erica Alexander]

What'd you say about me, man?

[John Henton]

Get out of my house.

[Kim Coles]

We have to really quickly say that this was a big meta moment for Latifah with the who you calling a bitch? They thought that it was gonna be end of morality. These words. And it also crept into. Because the music was also being seen as, you know, even Tipper Gore. Remember, she wanted special things on the albums.

[T.C. Carson]

Parent advisories.

[Kim Coles]

That's right.

[T.C. Carson]

Parental advisory.

[Kim Coles]

Parental advisories and all that. It was a time. But you know, now it's a badge of authenticity and edginess. If you do that, suddenly you're about something.

[Erica Alexander]

Well, you know, else too. You know, we see a lot of full frontal nudity in women and so now full frontal nudity for men. And it's not porn.

[Kim Coles]

I saw some crazy stuff in bet. They had full frontal and very large black penises. Really blot out the sun.

[Erica Alexander]

I'm gonna have to reinstate my cable membership.

[Kim Coles]

I know. That's right.

[T.C. Carson]

Had you saying Officer Goodbody.

[Kim Coles]

Officer Good, Yeah. No, you know, it's all. No, there are no rules, no restraints, no boundaries.

[T.C. Carson]

Have you ever done nude sing?

[Kim Coles]

Oh my gosh, have I?

[T.C. Carson]

Other than ours?

[Kim Coles]

Well, you're good.

[T.C. Carson]

No, no.

[Kim Coles]

Well, turns out to be, you know, one of my best things. I do. Oh, well, I was really good. I'm good at being nude.

[T.C. Carson]

Yeah, I am too.

[Kim Coles]

You are? So you've done nudes?

[T.C. Carson]

Yes, I have done a couple.

[Erica Alexander]

You have?

[T.C. Carson]

Uh huh. On stage. In a movie?

[Erica Alexander]

Yeah, on a stage. Like on a theater? In theater. Like with your manhood out?

[T.C. Carson]

Uh huh. We did hair and there's a nude scene at the end of hair where everybody drops trial.

[Kim Coles]

Did you see people in the audience with binoculars?

[T.C. Carson]

You didn't need them.

[Erica Alexander]

Wow.

[T.C. Carson]

Come on. I'm glad you set them up. I'll knock them down.

[Kim Coles]

Literally across the road.

[Erica Alexander]

Certainly.

[Kim Coles]

Wow. Good body.

[Erica Alexander]

Black boys are delicious. Can we have a moment for Latifah saying, set it off, set it off.

[Kim Coles]

She jumps up.

[Erica Alexander]

She jumps up. Set it off.

[Kim Coles]

Come on, come on. Her famous movie. Set it off.

[T.C. Carson]

That's right.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah. She had a lot of things going. This is a big meta moment for Queen Latifah.

[Erica Alexander]

It is.

[Kim Coles]

Because in this, we also know that she dropped an album that went gold. U N I T Y unity. And then this was her hit song, you calling a bitch. But she's telling. As a conscious rapper, you know, you ain't just gonna roll up on my instincts, taking me to another flow. Every time I hear a brother call a girl a bitch, trying to make a sister feel low, you know, all of that's got to go. Right, right.

[Erica Alexander]

And she said in the lyric, though, when we're playing, it's cool. And I love that she created that parameter. Like, I know if we just playing, like, hey, crazy bitch. But this was. It's one of my favorite videos of hers. Yeah, it is.

[Kim Coles]

And the way she moves.

[Erica Alexander]

Yeah, the way she's moving. They put her up on the thing and float her down and her leather and all her bikes and whatnot. It's beautiful.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah, it's beautiful. How amazing is it that her first gold record? Cause she had many, I think. Her first gold record.

[Erica Alexander]

It was her first gold record.

[Kim Coles]

It was during the show, and it was about women. Who you calling a bitch? It was about something, you know, why not?

[T.C. Carson]

Did she give us a copy the gold record?

[Erica Alexander]

A gold record gets signed by her. Yes.

[T.C. Carson]

She gave us one in a frame. Yeah.

[Erica Alexander]

And we had a party and a big cake.

[Kim Coles]

Oh, I'm gonna put that on ebay. I'm sorry. I didn't mean that. Time to pay the rent. Well, Kyle, if that little girl Lawrence ever tries to get you fired, don't worry about it, brother. You got a lawyer, Max?

[John Henton]

You'd represent me?

[Kim Coles]

Yeah, of course. I mean, I don't let my personal feelings interfere with my work. I can represent you and despise you at the same time.

[T.C. Carson]

I'll be calm, baby.

[Kim Coles]

One.

[T.C. Carson]

There you go.

[John Henton]

Stealing tape.

[T.C. Carson]

One.

[Erica Alexander]

Yippee.

[T.C. Carson]

Chumps.

[Erica Alexander]

I was bluffing.

[Kim Coles]

Give me the money. Every time I hear a brother call a girl a bitch, you're a hoe. Yvette Lee Bowser ends it with the Great Latifah singing her video, talking about, who you calling a bitch, which is wonderful.

[Erica Alexander]

It's a perfect way to close that show out. Yeah.

[T.C. Carson]

And I'm sure everybody thought it when the line was said, of course. I'm sure everybody thought about the song. So it was a perfect way to end the episode.

[Kim Coles]

Y' all think that was an Emmy episode?

[T.C. Carson]

One of many.

[Kim Coles]

Oh, yeah, for sure.

[Erica Alexander]

We tackled something head on. Tackled it beautifully. Tackled something that was happening in the zeitgeist, as people would say.

[T.C. Carson]

We did a lot of episodes that were relative relatable to the times that we were in. You know, Regine getting surgery, Khadijah going and seeking therapy. You know, things like that.

[Kim Coles]

She's getting breast reduction.

[T.C. Carson]

Breast reduction. Yeah.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah. And they didn't just have to always be dramatic. I think we should have gotten the Emmy episodes for, like, Raisin Hart Raising Heart.

[T.C. Carson]

Yeah, we absolutely should have got one.

[Kim Coles]

There were just wonderful episodes that you look back at.

[T.C. Carson]

Black sitcoms were never really looked at as Emmy material.

[Kim Coles]

And that's one of the reasons why I go on and on about this. But because they were seen as black sitcoms as opposed to sitcoms. Black cast.

[T.C. Carson]

Yes.

[Kim Coles]

And as long as we were in some kind of cultural ghetto, we were not going to get our due. And that was an issue. And still is.

[T.C. Carson]

Still is.

[Kim Coles]

Listen, this episode was a doozy.

[Erica Alexander]

Doozy.

[T.C. Carson]

I love it. Yes.

[Kim Coles]

There's more reverb.

[Erica Alexander]

There's a reverb. Let's get to the reverb right now.

[Kim Coles]

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[Erica Alexander]

Okay, Erica, talk to me. Black Excellence. Go. I'll start living single.

[Kim Coles]

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[Erica Alexander]

Okay, you know how we invented all them line dances? And people know the songs and they know how to do all the line dances. How do we do that? Black Excellence?

[Kim Coles]

I don't know. And our hair. Our hair, the way it grows from our scalp. We can do so much natural locs, cornrows.

[Erica Alexander]

And it fades. Exactly. See? Black Excellence has layers. You see what I did there?

[Kim Coles]

I saw it.

[Erica Alexander]

And Lexus will they understand and deliver the luxury that we deserve?

[Kim Coles]

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[T.C. Carson]

Aw.

[Erica Alexander]

From the moment that you touch that wheel, Alexis says, I didn't just show up, I showed out.

[Kim Coles]

No, it's more than a car. It represents how you walk through the world. Intentional, grounded, fly without even trying.

[Erica Alexander]

Because that's what Alexis does. It makes you feel amazing and look good, too. Well, then there's that.

[Kim Coles]

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[Erica Alexander]

All right, y', all, welcome to the Reverb brought to you by Lexus. Y' all know this is where we reflect and connect and talk about how the episode's themes still echo in the culture. Because just like our Stories. Lexus keeps raising the bar. That's the standard of amazing.

[Kim Coles]

So I think this show was important because it showed black men protecting black women.

[T.C. Carson]

Absolutely. I think that's one of the things that in our community that we kind of are losing. I don't think we take care of the kids and the women in our community.

[Kim Coles]

So Malcolm X said, the most disrespected person is a black in America is a black woman.

[T.C. Carson]

Cause she getting it from every side. She's getting it from her people. She's getting it from white women. She's getting it from white men. She's getting from children, white children. She's getting it from everybody.

[Kim Coles]

Cause this episode in, I think Living Single did at least, I think, show you and Overton you were protecting black women. You were.

[T.C. Carson]

Yes.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah. It was a beautiful thing.

[T.C. Carson]

Well, it was important, I think, early on, when John and I had a conversation, when they were. We initially were looked at as Lenny and Squeaky.

[Erica Alexander]

We've talked about that.

[T.C. Carson]

And we decided we didn't want to be that. Not with these strong women. We needed to be something else.

[Kim Coles]

Well, it also showed black men believing black women. You believed her?

[T.C. Carson]

Yeah.

[Kim Coles]

You knew that he was.

[T.C. Carson]

Well, I knew. That's my girl. I know she didn't do that.

[Kim Coles]

Well, it showed that women can battle sexism, but ultimately they need male allies and accomplices and abolitionists.

[T.C. Carson]

We need each other. We need each other.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah. Yeah. So there's fragile and toxic masculinity versus healthy masculinity, which you and Overton, the Kyle character, were versions of. Healthy masculinity.

[T.C. Carson]

Yeah, I think so.

[Kim Coles]

And you continue to be.

[Erica Alexander]

Thank you. What's the manosphere?

[Kim Coles]

Well, the manosphere is something like. It's something that bashes in particular. Well, let's. For these purposes, Black women.

[Erica Alexander]

Yeah. Okay. Digital spaces.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah. The Kevin Samuels. Kevin Samuels was a famous podcaster.

[Erica Alexander]

Andrew Tate.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah.

[Erica Alexander]

Who does this is women in general. Not necessarily black women.

[Kim Coles]

Yes.

[Erica Alexander]

Right.

[T.C. Carson]

Fresh and fresh are these podcast people.

[Erica Alexander]

They are online influencers. Kevin Samuels has now passed away.

[Kim Coles]

Image consultant.

[Erica Alexander]

You know, they start out as one thing, and then what happens is you get. You get the views. When you begin dissing women and telling women what they're doing wrong and how you could, you know, you're not a. What is it, A high value, high.

[Kim Coles]

Value woman or high value man? You're not gonna attract a high value man. It's the sort of red.

[T.C. Carson]

This is a man saying this.

[Kim Coles]

Yes, yes. And it's like shooting fish in a barrel. Cause These women call, I think with good intentions, wanting to know, how do you rate me? He says, well, tell me, what is your height, what is your weight? What do you do, how many kids you have? Oh, you're a best of three. You're best of five. Yeah, but nobody's gonna want you. You're gonna need to lower your expectations. Wow, it's so cruel to.

[T.C. Carson]

And he's getting likes and he's making money off of being like, they all are.

[Kim Coles]

They all are. But that's the thing. I mean, if you have a fixation on beauty and all of these outward materialistic things, you never ask that person, what are your dreams? Like, what do you think about? What do you dream about at night? Like, who are you? Do you do volunteer work? They didn't ask them about their inner.

[Erica Alexander]

Purpose, their value, their core value.

[Kim Coles]

Their core value. Just anything that could look like a mistake. Oh, you're 200 and something pounds. And how tall? Five. Two? Yeah. No, you're three at best. And it tore women down. And I was especially sad for my sisters because we don't deserve it. And I think that we really wanted to believe that this person that looked like he was a good looking man when he presented himself very well could help them find love and companionship. And even if they were delusional about some of the trappings around it, it's only because for 40 or 50 years we've been talking about the materialism and not the inner core, not the knowledge, not the things that we should be looking. So the damage has been done because it then gave way to all sorts of men who started to say, well, black women are too masculine and y' all want too much. You need to submit yourself. You know, because I'm the head of the household and I should be the leader. All this nonsense. You may get a situation like that, but what makes you think you have the right, just because you're a man, to be a leader? You have to. If you want to be a leader, you have to prove that you're a leader and you have to find a woman who wants to. I want a companionship. I want a partner. That's me.

[Erica Alexander]

I do think that there's something really okay with not submitting, but because that's a word that has a, you know, a connotation that's like, am I? Yes, yes, master. But there's a give and a take. There's. If there's something that I know that you like, if there's a food that you like, why wouldn't I prepare it or cook it or make it available to you. That's not submitting. That's a give and a take. He does the same for me. There's nothing wrong with staying in your feminine. Especially since we're so driven and we're working and we're working. If I could take that off at home and be a little softer, it feels comfortable for me. And I don't diminish any piece of myself. And I don't think women who do that are diminishing themselves. They're just stepping into their femininity. And by the way, we all have feminine and masculine in us. And there are times when, especially if he's sick and he's not feeling well, I love babying him. He's a man, he's strong, but he also needs my care. And I don't think there's anything wrong with partnering in that way and having a give and a take.

[Kim Coles]

But we have people who are relationship critics who have none of that. And I'm not saying they never had it. Telling other people how they can have it. And it's just. They're pumping it out and selling it like it's, you know, like it's. You know.

[Erica Alexander]

I think the thing that we're missing is that you get to determine what you want your relationship to look. Look like. And then you seek that or you magnetize that.

[T.C. Carson]

Well, I think relationships have changed over the years. So what was germane in the 40s and 50s is totally different now. Relationships have morphed and you have to morph with the times. For sure, the love is still there, but the way what people deem a relationship is, has changed.

[Kim Coles]

And what's really going on underneath? Because why would men, black men, gravitate toward people like that? Like, what's going on? Like you say it's changed. Obviously people are feeling a certain kind of way. They may be feeling ignored or underappreciated.

[T.C. Carson]

I think it's all because of this. This puts so much pressure, not just on young people, on everybody, to be something, to look a certain way, to have certain things, to present something a certain way. Even if you don't have it, you can make it up. On this box, you can use AI to put yourself anywhere you wanna put yourself. You can put yourself in anything you wanna put yourself in. Using this box right here. So you get to craft a life that you want other people to see. And it's not really your life though, right?

[Kim Coles]

But you're also sending to a mirage. Cause it's not really there. Right.

[Erica Alexander]

And the relationships fall apart because people are trying to keep up this image of what they think is popular or what they think is gonna work, but.

[Kim Coles]

Also rejection in dating. They're going like this. Swiping. Right. And not taking it. Yeah. Just. And that's making it. I mean, it's actually weird because they're saying everybody's now anxious. They're anxious, they're going to sleep, thinking or living their lives thinking they won't find anything or find anyone. But they don't necessarily have the skill set, the soft skills to get there.

[T.C. Carson]

One of the things about throughout our relationships on Living Single, I've had a lot of young black men come up to me and saying that they didn't have examples in their home. And they looked at Overton and I, and they learned how to have conversation with women, how to treat their sisters by watching us and watching how we dealt with you all. The show was so much more than what we thought it was in the beginning. It was. And I think we learned real early that it was something special for our community, which is why we fought for the things we fought for. Because it wasn't just. It wasn't a throwaway.

[Erica Alexander]

It wasn't just a sitcom.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah.

[T.C. Carson]

It was something that was important.

[Erica Alexander]

It was meaningful.

[T.C. Carson]

Yeah.

[Kim Coles]

And I want people to know how much we love men. Kim is always talking about that conversation.

[Erica Alexander]

I learned and I went and took because I wanted to have a better understanding, because I was becoming hardened and anti male, because I was dating lovable losers. But that's what I was choosing. I take responsibility. I went and took a series of classes and learned so many things about men being providers and protectors. And if you look at any man, whether it's a romantic relationship or not, look at how he provides for you. Look at how he protects you. Look at how he's look to see if he is indeed providing and protecting you. So just look at the men like you, like John, who are excellent, who are protective, who are loving, who are caring, deeply caring, and go, ding, I deserve that. I'm attracting it now. And how can I attract more of that in my life? Whether it's romantic or not, because we need each other. You know, we need each other. And every time you've said you're like my sisters, you loved on us and we loved on you.

[T.C. Carson]

Absolutely.

[Erica Alexander]

You know, and we wanted to. You made it easy to love on you.

[Kim Coles]

It's also, by the way, just a small thing about the music. A lot of things in the music are not giving Way to having these conversations. We used to when we grew up, they were like, come show me your.

[T.C. Carson]

Kindness Comfort me with all your magnets Woman, don't you know that you are born. Oh, pick a key. TC can you pick a key?

[Kim Coles]

Why don't you know it's you I'm born again. We had beautiful songs to teach us. Now people are getting their back blown out, man, and they're scared. They think somebody's gonna break em.

[T.C. Carson]

It's true. I've had people come up to me.

[Kim Coles]

And they say, I don't wanna have sex. Ms. Erica. I said, why? She said, they're gonna hurt me.

[T.C. Carson]

They're gonna hurt me.

[Kim Coles]

I said, what do you mean? She said, well, they're doing this. And I said, oh, the language. And they were 20 something years old, 24, 25 virgins. And they said they were frightened. Blow your back out. What does that mean? I don't want to blow my back out. I'd like to go to a movie. I'd like to have some popcorn. Don't blow my back out. I like my back, you know, but, you know, it's the things. And we need more duets. We need more. We have beautiful people, Teyana Taylor and these people in the world to show us the way, and Beyonce to do more duets.

[Miu Miu Fragrance Sponsor]

We need love.

[Kim Coles]

You think we can go back the right way? Yes, we must. Because, by the way, we're the culture makers. And if we start rejecting all of this hostility and anger and start to bring in the lovers, the neo soul and all of that and start to.

[T.C. Carson]

Cherish these, we have to support it ourselves.

[Kim Coles]

Yes.

[T.C. Carson]

And not want those other entities to sign off on it and to deem it worthy. Again, you said we're culture makers so we can create the art. The art will sell.

[Kim Coles]

This is the time. Let's glom on to what Kim has been preaching and going around and saying. You know, the power of self and, you know, what do you. You're about crystals and life and all.

[Erica Alexander]

This other good stuff.

[Kim Coles]

Crystals.

[Erica Alexander]

Enlightened self awareness and exploration and curiosity. Curiosity about.

[T.C. Carson]

You gotta keep learning.

[Erica Alexander]

Gotta keep learning. You know, go behind the curtain a little bit on some of these. These. The indoctrination that we've had. Go behind the curtain and look at what's really. What's really there and what they're telling you and how we're. We're acting on automatic. We're on autopilot. And if you stop, I can go like, well, why do I think that way? Or why do I do that? That Way or why am I even to be curious? Be curious.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah. There's nobody to. To blame anymore.

[Erica Alexander]

It's worth work. It's worth the work, I think.

[Kim Coles]

You know what? That was awful, awesome. And true blue. We got a true blue.

[Erica Alexander]

Okay, do we have a true blue question from one of our true blue fans and Franz, which is friends and friends as one word. Enjoy.

[Kim Coles]

We actually do have a true blue question today. This question is from Anissa, and she asked, what are Erica and TC's take on the Max and Kyle relationship in living single as it relates to black love? They started as enemies, but do you think that they were a good representation of it?

[T.C. Carson]

That's a good question. I think they were a good representation of a couple that were really working to work out their differences. I'm not gonna put a black or white thing on. I think it was a universal love story, and I think that's what resonated with people. I think we hadn't seen two chocolate people like that in our zeitgeist, and so that made it special for us. But the love story was a very universal. For me anyway. A very universal story. You like her. You don't like her. She like you. She don't like you. But y' all really like each other, so. Okay, fine.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah. I always thought that their relationship was a negotiation in real time, and they were tough negotiators. And I think they also were testing their boundaries and sort of saying, you know, these are mine. And then also afraid that the maybe expectations wouldn't be met. Then you push the person back. And that was Max's, I think, biggest issue, because there was something really beautiful and welcoming about Kyle that I thought that they wrote for you and made the Max character be the one that was. Yeah. But then I think she had the most to lose in this world. She had fought very much for anonymity.

[T.C. Carson]

And she had been hurt.

[Kim Coles]

She had been hurt.

[T.C. Carson]

Hurt really bad.

[Kim Coles]

And she had built herself up powerfully, ambitiously to be independent and dependent on.

[T.C. Carson]

Her and not need.

[Kim Coles]

And not need. And yet she needed a lot. And yet I believe that she could consistently create a world for her to be happy in no matter what. And she seemed happy. She wasn't waiting for you to make her happy.

[T.C. Carson]

Right.

[Kim Coles]

She was just deciding, were you the one? Cause if one thing she was. I think she was a monogamous woman. She wasn't gonna have several different Kyles.

[T.C. Carson]

Once she decided to settle down.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah. Then you were her guy. Plus, she was also saying, this is not going to power Down. Once we're, you know, together, this is what you get. A lot of people think that once.

[T.C. Carson]

You get married, it's gonna be different.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah, this is gonna be different. It's like, no, this is it. And he was saying that to her, too. You know, I thought that was a beautiful dance. And Kyle Bowser and Yvette Lee. Yvette Lee were in a real dance. I wonder how much of that was part of their lives.

[T.C. Carson]

Right? It was a great thing to be able to play. I tell you, it was the love affair of my lifetime. It really was. I got to do it on screen. Yay.

[Kim Coles]

That's so beautiful. I go again, I'm gonna cry.

[Erica Alexander]

Thank you.

[T.C. Carson]

Thank you.

[Kim Coles]

It was the love affair of my life, too. And that's so funny to have it on in front of everybody.

[T.C. Carson]

Well, to have it in where you can go back and watch it.

[Kim Coles]

Exactly. And still be young and beautiful. So. Yeah. So thanks a lot.

[Erica Alexander]

I love each other now.

[T.C. Carson]

Uh huh. Oh, yeah. She stuck with me. Both of y'.

[Erica Alexander]

All.

[T.C. Carson]

Y' all can't get rid of me. It's too late.

[Kim Coles]

How about that?

[Erica Alexander]

Why would you want to? Well, that's our show.

[Kim Coles]

That's our show. T.C.

[Erica Alexander]

Carson, you're one of a kind.

[T.C. Carson]

Oh, well, thank you. Thanks for having me here and having this wonderful conversation around toxic masculinity and black love and taking care of our sisters and brothers in our community like we took care of each other on Living Single. It's been really interesting conversation. It was a conversation I didn't expect to have tonight, but it was a really good conversation. So thank you.

[Kim Coles]

Yeah, thank you.

[Erica Alexander]

Thank you for being here and thank you for, like I said earlier, being one of a kind. And thank you for being.

[T.C. Carson]

You know, there have been so many song titles from. You all have been saying different. One of a kind love affair is beautiful. At least 10 tonight that have popped through my mind said, don't say that. Don't say that. Don't sing that.

[Kim Coles]

Oh, well, say whatever you want.

[T.C. Carson]

Anything.

[Kim Coles]

Thank you for representing for not only black love, but for love et al. You are a fantastic representation of what it is to be human in this world. And you've decided to do it right in front of our eyes in plain sight. And it's a beautiful thing and we thank you for that example.

[T.C. Carson]

Thank you, baby. I appreciate it. I'm not gonna cry.

[Erica Alexander]

No. Nope.

[Kim Coles]

That's it.

[Erica Alexander]

That's it. Well, that's our show. Make sure to follow us on all of the socials reliving single podcast and listen and Watch us on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. And I want you to understand something. You need to watch this show all the way through. I know you're here right now, so you did that. But tell your friends when you watch it, watch it all the way through because you never know what you're gonna get. We will see you all next week. This is so exciting that we had T.C.

[Kim Coles]

Carson, all that good stuff. Yes. And come back and see who's here. And thank you. See you next week.

[Erica Alexander]

Bye Bye.

[Kim Coles]

Reliving Single is hosted by me, Erica Alexander and me, Kim Coles. Reliving Single is a production of Heartbeat in association with Color Farm Media Executive.

[Erica Alexander]

Produced by Kevin, Jeff Clanagan, Eric Eddings, Leslie Guam, Erica Alexander and Ben Arnon.

[Kim Coles]

The show is produced by Kim Coles.

[Erica Alexander]

Amber Watson is our senior producer.

[Kim Coles]

Our associate producer is Kenny Jackson.

[Erica Alexander]

Our other associate producer is Electra Telesford.

[Kim Coles]

Our sound engineers are Eric Hicks and Cedric Wilson.

[Erica Alexander]

Production supervision by Razak Boykin and Brett Calkins.

[Kim Coles]

Additional production production support from Alex Atkins and Z. Taylor.

[Erica Alexander]

Special thanks to BK Augustine and Dr. E.J. johnson.

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