Podcast Summary: The Rena Malik, MD Podcast

Episode: Charmaine
Host: Dr. Rena Malik
Date: November 13, 2025
Guest: Dr. Charmaine Borg, Clinical Psychologist & Certified Psycho-Sexologist, University of Groningen

Main Theme & Purpose

This episode explores the surprising relationship between sexual arousal and disgust—a paradox at the heart of human intimacy. Dr. Rena Malik and guest Dr. Charmaine Borg discuss how sexual attraction and disgust intersect, the challenges of overcoming repulsion in relationships, performance pressures in the bedroom, and evidence-based strategies for optimizing sexual and relational health. Dr. Borg also shares insights from her pioneering research, including the development of a self-defense bracelet that uses disgust, and debunks common myths around intimacy, pain, and the role of planning in sustaining long-term passion.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Paradox of Sex and Disgust

[02:18–07:42]

• Disgust as Protection: Disgust is a primal emotion that protects us from contamination. Ironically, body parts and fluids central to sex—saliva, vaginal fluids, ejaculate—are often viewed as disgusting except during sexual arousal.

  • “Sex and disgust…are both relevant for survival and for pleasure and protection, but they are working constantly against each other.” — Dr. Borg [03:19]

• Arousal Overcomes Disgust: Sexual arousal temporarily suppresses disgust, making previously aversive stimuli appealing. However, as relationships age and novelty fades, previously overlooked features may become sources of repulsion.

• The “Ick” Factor: Loss of novelty or a partner’s behavior can trigger sudden, generalized disgust, commonly referred to as “the ick.” This is hard to unlearn once established.

2. Navigating Disgust in Relationships

[08:25–24:00]

• Unlearning Disgust: Once disgust is learned (either about a partner’s body/behavior or a body fluid), it's challenging to erase. Dr. Borg advocates for:

  • Focusing on increasing sexual arousal and pleasure, not merely minimizing disgust.
  • Prolonged exposure for mild, specific disgust (e.g., viewing or touching genitals outside a sexual context) may help—but pushing oneself to endure strong disgust during sex can backfire.
  • Open, safe communication about aversion is vital but must be done sensitively to avoid damaging trust or self-esteem.

• Communication Challenges: In cultures where discussing sex is taboo (e.g., the U.S.), opening up about disgust or sexual concerns can feel risky, but framing it as an opportunity for mutual improvement helps.

  “It does not sit right with me to encourage someone to sit through something that makes them very uncomfortable during sex… this is the most intimate part of your being.” — Dr. Borg [17:41]

• Pleasure as the Primary Focus: Emphasize sensuality, novelty, and connection to counteract rut or negative associations.

3. The Science of Disgust, Arousal, and Self-Defence

[26:53–38:11]

• Envy Bracelet Origin: Dr. Borg’s research shows that sexual arousal reduces disgust, making us willing to approach what would normally repel us. Reversing this, her team developed the Inve bracelet, a device that emits a foul odor and can kill sexual arousal instantly:

  • “With the very first puffs, the group in the experimental condition—the erection was gone.” —Dr. Borg [34:57]

• Effectiveness and Limits: Used in Congo and Burundi for sexual assault prevention; however, 65% of threatened women freeze and might not activate the device. Research in VR labs is ongoing to make its activation more automatic.

• Experiments: Borg’s lab induced arousal in women and measured willingness to perform disgusting tasks—aroused participants showed significantly reduced disgust and greater compliance.

4. Self-Disgust and Sexual Performance Anxiety

[39:52–49:16]

• Self-Disgust: People may develop disgust at their own bodies or sexual performance (e.g., erectile dysfunction, premature ejaculation). This overlaps with shame and ‘mental contamination,’ and is often driven by the gap between actual and ideal self.

  • “Unlearning this type of self-disgust is very harsh—way more complex than...towards external stimuli.” — Dr. Borg [41:57]

• Actionable Tips: For performance-related self-disgust, shift from self-judgment to exploration and play; remember, “sex is not a performance sport.” Focus on connection and fun, not perfection.

  • Noteworthy quote: “Sex is a place you go, not something you do.” —Dr. Borg referencing a colleague [46:50]

• Cultural Pressures: The cultural script puts men under immense pressure to perform, which can feed anxiety and undermine pleasure.

5. Myths about Orgasms, Pain, and Sleep

[49:16–61:58]

• Orgasms and Pain: Subjective arousal alone does not reduce pain—genital stimulation and orgasm are needed for pain relief.

  • “Subjective sexual arousal is not sufficient to reduce pain… you need genital stimulation, you need orgasm.” — Dr. Borg [50:25]

• Sex and Sleep: Masturbation with orgasm can help sleep, but partner sex (with orgasm) leads to faster sleep onset and greater restfulness, likely due to intimacy and touch, not orgasm alone.

  • “Intimacy seems to be driving this data.” — Dr. Borg [55:11]

• Touch and Safety: Nonsexual physical touch with a partner or child can also comfort and enhance sleep, highlighting the importance of skin-to-skin intimacy.

6. Challenging Myths and Rethinking Sex in Long-Term Relationships

[62:31–72:14]

• Sex Is Not Always “Natural”: The idea that great sex should always be spontaneous and effortless is a damaging myth—real intimacy takes planning, communication, and intention.

  • “Now I grew into understanding how untrue [that myth is] and how damaging this myth is… It’s a very difficult myth to unlearn.” — Dr. Borg [63:18]

• Planning for Connection: Scheduling intimacy doesn’t make sex mechanical—it can “create the opportunity for a deeper sexual connection.” Planning can look like shared showers, going to bed naked together, or simply prioritizing time for intimacy.

• Bedroom Boredom: Many couples avoid even small gestures of intimacy for fear it will obligate them to sex; this impoverishes connections. Re-introducing playful, non-goal-oriented intimacy is essential.

  “If you plan sex… it doesn’t mean you have to end up with intercourse... you make time for each other.” — Dr. Borg [70:41]

• No Couple Has a Lifetime of Spontaneous Sex: Every healthy long-term relationship needs intentionality and effort.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Disgust and sex are constantly working against each other … it depends which one outweighs the other, how our behavior will develop.” — Dr. Charmaine Borg [03:20]
• “The most important here would be whether it is something, a feature… that’s slightly easier to unlearn because you can highlight the functionality, perhaps focus attention on the disgust feature… but the problem is more when disgust is more generic.” — Dr. Borg [12:32]
• “Pleasure and sexual arousal, it’s so intense… I would work on increasing sexual arousal and pleasure.” — Dr. Borg [14:28]
• “Once disgust is learned, it’s very hard to unlearn… it’s easy to generalize that to the whole person.” — Dr. Borg [10:56]
• “Sex is not a performance sport.” — Dr. Borg quoting a colleague [46:47]
• “I have not met a single couple who has had spontaneous sex for decades and it’s always great. It doesn’t exist.” — Dr. Rena Malik [71:17]

Important Timestamps & Segments

• [02:18–07:42] — The paradox of arousal and disgust; role of novelty
• [08:25–24:00] — Strategies for overcoming disgust; open discussion with partners
• [26:53–38:11] — Research on disgust, self-defense bracelets, and experimental insights
• [39:52–49:16] — Self-disgust, performance anxiety, and cultural sexual scripts
• [49:16–61:58] — Orgasms, pain, sleep, and the role of intimacy and touch
• [62:31–72:14] — Myths busted, the importance of planning intimacy, and practical advice for long-term couples

Closing Reflections & Practical Takeaways

• Intimacy and good sex require ongoing effort, communication, and creativity. Planning for intimacy is not unsexy—it’s essential for sustaining desire.
• Pleasure and connection must remain the focus, not just “minimizing disgust” or performing.
• Addressing aversion or discomfort takes sensitivity; never force yourself (or a partner) to endure strong disgust in the name of intimacy. Use non-judgmental communication and focus on building safety and arousal.
• Physical touch, even outside of sex, deeply supports emotional well-being, sleep, and the health of long-term partnerships.
• Debunking harmful myths—that sex must always be spontaneous, natural, or effortless—frees couples to find new joy and deeper connection at any stage of life.

Find Dr. Charmaine Borg

• University of Groningen faculty page
• LinkedIn for research updates and future projects

Summary prepared by: Podcast Summarizer AI
For listeners: This summary captures the heart of the discussion—rich with scientific insights, myth-busting, and truly practical, compassionate advice for enhancing intimacy, pleasure, and relational health.