← Rena Malik, MD Podcast
Rena Malik, MD Podcast
Moment: How to Masturbate Like a Lover (Not a Teenager) ft. Caitlin V Neal
00:23:36
In this episode, Dr. Rena Malik and sex therapist Caitlin V Neal discuss how men can transform their sexual experiences by adopting mindful masturbation, exploring Erotic Blueprints, and trying techniques like lingam massage. They share tips for creating sensory environments, enhancing pleasure, and experimenting with prostate play, helping listeners nurture intimacy both solo and with partners.
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- [00:01]
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- [00:28]
Rena Malik, M.D.
Experian. Other tips on masturbation that you think that people. Besides going more quickly, what are other things men can do to like, make masturbation a tool to help them be better inside?
- [00:41]
Caitlin Vigno
I love this question so much. It's like an obsession of mine. So I teach a system called the Erotic Blueprints and it's invented by my mentor Jaya. I've got a whole YouTube series on it if you want to learn more about them. But I suggest using the Erotic Blueprints, which are energetic, sensual, sexual, kinky, and shape shifter to engage in masturbation. So what do I mean by that? Start with an energetic approach, which means way less physical and a lot more feeling into the energy that exists. So I'll give you an example that doesn't make it sound so woo woo. If you rub your hands together like this.
- [01:11]
Rena Malik, M.D.
Yeah.
- [01:12]
Caitlin Vigno
And then you float one hand over your arm. There's a space like right here for me right now where I can actually feel my hand and I can feel my arm even though without touching. Right. I'm like aware of the space between them. I can feel like a little heat. And we have this incredible ability to really. I mean, I can. There are folks who can really feel the energy. And you can feel the energy of. From like quite a bit of distance because they've really trained that and they're very sensitive. But if you do this with yourself, if you do that with your cock and you just allow your body to sort of like think about it like it's reaching out. My nerve endings on both my hand and my arm are like reaching for each other now. Trying to feel each other, right?
- [01:50]
Rena Malik, M.D.
Yeah.
- [01:50]
Caitlin Vigno
Even just something like that simple can actually engage a lot of awareness that's not otherwise present. Because we're going straight for touch. Right. So if we even just begin to like say, oh, I'm aware that my body exists in space. Okay, that's interesting. I can feel like, okay, oh, wow. Even like with that, I can feel where there's tension or I can feel where I Don't feel things. And that's also very useful information. And then move from there into a slow increasing amount of touch and amount of stimulation. So when moving into the sensual blueprint is making it a sensory experience. So making sure that you have a space that feels like at least sensually supportive. It doesn't necessarily mean having like a perfectly clean room. But maybe you like clear the clutter off of the bed or maybe you like turn on a fan or light a candle or something just to like give yourself, give your five senses something to ground into. Men don't really think these things are for women. Right. A lot of the time. But actually men are just as sensorily oriented as women are. They just really haven't been given permission.
- [02:53]
Rena Malik, M.D.
To like light a candle to do it.
- [02:55]
Caitlin Vigno
Yeah. And, and maybe it's take a shower first, you know, whatever. Like has you feel grounded in your body so that you can experience pleasure in all five of your senses. Maybe it's putting on music. Yeah, but, but then also using a high quality lubricant like throw out the Jergens. You guys like. Lube is cheap. It's 2025. Like get, get, get a nice lube. It could be a silicon based lube because it lasts a long time when you're masturbating. Oh, it could be oil. It can be an oil based lube. They make your skin feel better over time. Like this is good stuff. Treat like a self care routine and.
- [03:26]
Rena Malik, M.D.
Then don't use Vaseline or lotions, please like get lube or if you have to oil from your kitchen. Like olive oil is fine. But do not use other things. They're going to irritate you. They're not going to feel good.
- [03:37]
Caitlin Vigno
That's what it's meant for, you know, like this, I like to think like this is your guy, you know, like you want your to like pamper with you and perform. Right. And you have this relationship to it where you're like, you should just perform despite the fact that throwing like Vaseline, that's not fair, you know, you wouldn't do that to someone you love. Treat them like someone you love. But begin to like slowly ramp up. Do something called Lingam massage, which I also teach. Like give yourself a massage instead of going straight for this should feel good, this should feel arousing. This should get me to orgasm. And then once you've done that for a while, then move into a technique that feels like you know you're going to get closer to orgasm depending on if you're edging that might edging, meaning getting close to orgasm and then pulling off. That technique might look different. Switch things up, use your other hand, especially if you want to last longer, changing sensation, maybe even bring in a toy because that's going to be a different amount of sensation. So you can train differently. And then finally bringing in fantasies, bringing in or visualization is what I actually prefer. Because I think going on a porn detox, if, if any of the things that we've talked about today like really resonate and you think that porn is part of the challenge for you, like you maybe take a little break with it and instead visualize yourself with a lover in that moment. Maybe a real lover that you're actually with or a future lover who you want to be with or like the wife or the girlfriend that you, you are calling in for yourself. Imagine yourself like making love to her in those moments. If you need some sort of erotic reference in here and if you're able to just be present with yourself, with your body, with your experience, you don't need to add any visuals in here either and then play around with it. So all of these things and you don't have to incorporate all of them once. But even just making slight changes to your masturbation routine, even if it's just getting coconut oil instead of whatever instead of petroleum jelly, these things add up and they really show your body, that you care about your body. And you know, it works just the same way it works with a lover. When you show a lover or partner or a woman in your life that you really care about her and her well being, doesn't she also bloom and blossom under your care? Like body is the same.
- [05:49]
Rena Malik, M.D.
Yes, yes. And I mean, I love that. Like, I think, I think, you know, it's always like, oh, you're whacking off. Like all these things that we talk about when, when men are like jerking off, whacking off, it's, it's just like, it's also describing what exactly not to do. Right? Like don't just rush through it, don't. Yeah. If you are not, if you're listening, you should watch to see that facial.
- [06:10]
Caitlin Vigno
Expression you should do to the weeds in your yard. Yes, yes.
- [06:14]
Rena Malik, M.D.
So I mean, yeah, absolutely. And, and you can even try different like textures. Like you might have like a silk shirt or like something like that that can help. Like use a feather if you have one. Right? Like something just really just try and.
- [06:25]
Caitlin Vigno
Experiment, Use the rest of your body. You know, so much of our masturbation, both men and women, is so Genital focused. And it like, ignores every other nerve ending that we have in our arsenal of pleasure.
- [06:36]
Rena Malik, M.D.
And your whole body can be erogenous, if almost your whole body. Your. Maybe not like your chin or your like, elbow.
- [06:42]
Caitlin Vigno
People train themselves to do all kinds of wild sexual stuff, but yeah, I.
- [06:47]
Rena Malik, M.D.
Mean, most of your body is quite erogenous. So if you want it to be like, you can. You can orgasm without ever touching your genitals.
- [06:54]
Caitlin Vigno
Yes. Yeah, absolutely.
- [06:56]
Rena Malik, M.D.
Awesome.
- [06:56]
Caitlin Vigno
And try orgasmic meditation also, which is like, with. I recorded one, it's free on my website. Like, it just guides someone through all of those things. A breathing technique, a body scan. Like, you don't have to just figure it all out on your own. Especially if the voice in your head is like, this is dumb, or you don't know how to do this or it's not gonna work or whatever. Like, listen to someone else's voice guide you through the practice until you feel the results and then it becomes easier for you to continue to pursue.
- [07:22]
Rena Malik, M.D.
And yeah, I think a lot of, like, I've. I've been thinking about this a lot. Like, men hesitate or think or really have to be convinced to like, prioritize their sex life outside of just like having sex. Right. Like, if it means, like, talking, like we talked about having a therapist or other things, but, like, the reality is that, like, you, like, you, you should be doing this. This is another thought that you have in your head that's limiting you, you know, and so let's talk about. To think about why. Why is it stupid to care about your sex life, right?
- [07:48]
Caitlin Vigno
If you're spending the time here, listening, if you follow your channel, if you care about getting it right on like, a physiological or biochemical level, like, why not take one or two extra steps to really bring it across all of the levels of your. Your humanness?
- [08:03]
Rena Malik, M.D.
Yeah. You mentioned lingam massage. So tell me a little bit. There's these, like, techniques. Lingam massage, yoni massage. Tell me about, like, their background. What are they? What do they benefit, how to do them potentially.
- [08:14]
Caitlin Vigno
Yeah. So. So they really have their background in original Tantra, but they've really been resurfaced in our world through. Through Neo Tantra, people who are taking tantric practices which are sometimes up to like 8,000 years old. I mean, there's. There are lineages that have been passed from person to person for hundreds and in some cases thousands of years. Because like I said, people have been thinking about sex because it was the original way to entertain ourselves, connect and feel good before we had TikTok. Uh, so, so lingam massage and yoni massage are, are both arousing and healing practices that we can engage in as lay people. You don't require a ton of extra skills in order to do this. I would argue that you have the right to touch yourself and your partner in, in these sorts of ways and if you want more training, it's available. But they are touching the genitals of ourselves or of another person in ways that are not purely based on getting to orgasm and are more about the things that every other massage is about. Restoring blood flow to tissue, working out little knots and stuckness in our, in our, in our muscles and in the interstitia of our bodies. Restoring flow, restoring sensation, restoring pleasure, and also giving our bodies a different sense of different ways of touching ourselves. Just the same way that like when I rub my own shoulder, that feels kind of good, but when someone else rubs it, it feels better. And then when a professional rubs it, they might rub it in such a way that it really like releases a whole bunch of tension and feels exceptionally good. Yoni massage and lingam massage are built on the, the same idea. They're also a really great way, you know, especially if you have a partner that feels a little disconnected from their genitals. Maybe she experiences like, maybe not pain with sex, but just like a little bit of discomfort. Nothing that needs to be like elevated to a medical professional. But like sometimes that position doesn't feel that good because maybe she has, you know, one side of her pelvic floor is like a little tighter than the other. Maybe the way that she does her kettlebell swings has been, you know, building up a little bit like extra tightness in her pelvic floor. Right. We don't treat our genitals and our, the muscles and the musculature behind them like we treat the rest of our body.
- [10:30]
Rena Malik, M.D.
Right.
- [10:31]
Caitlin Vigno
It's very easy for me to go and ask my partner to rub my shoulders and neck. It gets a very different thing to say. I would like for you to touch my vulva and vagina with that same care and tenderness without necessarily going for arousal and orgasm from a place of. It's made out of muscles and they could use a little extra TLC right now.
- [10:52]
Rena Malik, M.D.
Absolutely.
- [10:53]
Caitlin Vigno
And even further on penises. On cock bodied folks, like on lingams, I think there's very little thought on how to start to stroke and touch them other than what we've all been seen and conditioned is the, the way that you touch a penis.
- [11:08]
Rena Malik, M.D.
Yeah, yeah. No, that's Awesome. I mean, I think that that is so true. And I will say, like, in general, like, those areas build up a lot of tension. And I see it all the time in my practice. People build tension their pelvic floors and they don't know because we're not really trained to be one with our pelvic floors. And so but it's like wreaking havoc on their life and they don't know. And so, like, I think if prophylactically people did things like that, we'd probably see a lot less pelvic floor tension.
- [11:36]
Caitlin Vigno
Yes. And I think also important, especially for women who intend to or have given birth vaginally, not while they're pregnant necessarily, but certainly before they conceive. And there are specialists that do this for women who are pregnant. Massaging just the vulva and the like introitus, all the external genitalia on a woman can lead to a very different delivery experience.
- [12:02]
Rena Malik, M.D.
Less tears and all those sorts.
- [12:04]
Caitlin Vigno
And I've had the pleasure of working on women who had delivered vaginally to help them do scar reduction and remediation in their vaginal canals. Because even if you had a very easy delivery, there still may be a little scarring on the inside of the vagina. And with the right technique and like just a lot of loving presence and castor oil and like, you know, a bit of skill, you can actually make it tremendous amount of difference for the way that a woman experiences sex after delivery, right?
- [12:37]
Rena Malik, M.D.
And it's increasing blood flow, right? So like we talk about like getting better erections, getting women to have better orgasms. All of that part, all of that is with increased blood flow, right? Increased blood flow means more blood flow to the penis and the clitoris, which ultimately means more arousal, which ultimately leads to better organisms, right?
- [12:57]
Caitlin Vigno
More oxygen in the area, more healing.
- [12:58]
Rena Malik, M.D.
In the air, more.
- [12:59]
Caitlin Vigno
More reduction of toxins. And it all. It all makes sense. Yeah, it all makes sense. And I think also, like, if you are interested in spicing things up or you want to try something new or you want to create like a fun date night idea like playing with yoni and lingam. Massage are such a great way because they're beneficial, right? Like you don't, like I said, you don't have to be an expert. I've made two courses on each of them. If you want to see an expert, do it. But, you know, like even just your loving touch and a little bit of exploration so far, do it slow.
- [13:32]
Rena Malik, M.D.
Yeah.
- [13:33]
Caitlin Vigno
Check in a lot. Start softer than you think. You need to put aside 45 minutes. Light a candle, you got an epic date night, and you need better sex for a while.
- [13:42]
Rena Malik, M.D.
Yeah, Yeah, I like that. And it's novel for a lot of people, so you add novelty. Totally. Yeah. You know, you've also talked, and I talk about this to prostate massage, so I think that a lot of people are like, oh, that's an exit. We don't ever stimulate there. And there is obviously a lot of people who derive pleasure from prostate massage. So for someone who's, like, curious about learning more about that, how do you recommend men sort of start engaging in that area slowly?
- [14:08]
Caitlin Vigno
That's the theme of a lot of my work. Just do it slower.
- [14:11]
Rena Malik, M.D.
Yeah.
- [14:12]
Caitlin Vigno
And part of that is because the. The way that the anus works is that you can't. You have one muscle that you can relax, one sphincter that you can relax, and one that you can't. Just tell to relax. Right. And we all know this instinctively because we've all had times where, like, maybe going to the bathroom is really hard, or we felt like we had to force it, and then if we tried again later, we were a lot more relaxed. Right. Like. Or even the. The terminology of, like, tight ass is like, a literal term for someone who's, like, squeezing in their glutes and in their anus.
- [14:41]
Rena Malik, M.D.
Yeah.
- [14:42]
Caitlin Vigno
So it is best, and this is true whether you are entering your own anus or a partner's anus, to slow down and wait on the outside and right past the first finger for the other sphincter to relax all the way. If you try to force that process or you try to rush the process, the experience of pain, you're more likely to not want to do it again because it didn't feel good. It's going to take a lot longer to actually adjust to having something penetrating you. If you just go slow at the beginning, chances are that you're going to have a way greater experience and you're going to be able to derive more pleasure from the experience overall. But it's difficult. Right? Like, it's hard to be patient. Like, we want to do the thing, we want to do it now.
- [15:24]
Rena Malik, M.D.
Yeah.
- [15:25]
Caitlin Vigno
I would also say for men, one of the things that my clients come to me for is, like, if they've been experimenting with prostate play, but they haven't found the right toy, because not every prostate is, you know, one and a half inches or two inches or whatever inside of the rectum like some of them are. And, you know, your mileage will vary. So there are toys that are a little longer There are toys that are a little shorter. There are toys that are, have more of a, of a hook to them. You know, I found that I have really short fingers. I have really small, thin fingers. And so when I've had partners that wanted me to stimulate their prostate when I didn't have these nails.
- [15:59]
Rena Malik, M.D.
Yeah, short nails is good.
- [16:00]
Caitlin Vigno
Short nails is vital. Yes. All butts don't love nails. Singing from experience, I, I found that in order to reach my poster partner's prostate, I had to like, push as hard as I could and it hurt the webbing of my finger. You know, it just wasn't physically very comfortable for me to do that. And so if you think about all the variations in bodies, like you may have to experiment with a couple different toys or you, your partner may not be able to like really hit the spot. You also physically, especially if you have any sort of mobility issues or your wrist doesn't spin this direction, which I would argue is probably most of us.
- [16:33]
Rena Malik, M.D.
Yep.
- [16:34]
Caitlin Vigno
You may benefit from just doing a lot of experimenting and, and you know, if you're, if your anus isn't open right now, wait, if this toy didn't hit the spot, then try a different one. But don't give up. The only way to not experience, not like succeed at something is to stop trying.
- [16:50]
Rena Malik, M.D.
Yeah, yeah. And I think like, yes, not. And I think the important thing is not everyone is like, oh, prostate plays for me. But you won't know until you try. If you're interested. I think it's wor. Experimenting because you might enjoy it and it might be something that you can use in addition to regular sexual penis and vagina intercourse. And it could be fun.
- [17:09]
Caitlin Vigno
It could be fun even if you don't go all the way in to inside of your body, all the way up to your prostate, even just like experimenting with the outside of your body can be really pleasurable. The anus has almost as many nerve endings as the lips. So there is a lot of pleasure that is available from just that, even if you don't go any further.
- [17:26]
Rena Malik, M.D.
And even just stimulating the perineum. So the, the taint that area, I just say, because everyone knows what that is.
- [17:32]
Caitlin Vigno
Everyone knows the team. Yeah.
- [17:33]
Rena Malik, M.D.
So you just, you can stimulate and put pressure there. You will sort of feel some of the prostate through that way too. And so if you don't want to go internal there, that's another place where you can experiment. I would just add lots of lubrication. Always lots of. No matter who's anus, the anus is not self Lubricating. It will not produce lubricant.
- [17:52]
Caitlin Vigno
It doesn't. No matter how hard you wanted to, you can't will it.
- [17:57]
Rena Malik, M.D.
Yeah. So let's talk about just, like, when you're with your partner, you talk about, like, titration and variation. So how do you sort of get in the rhythm, right. That is going to keep your partner aroused, engaged, but also sort of allow for that variation? Totally.
- [18:13]
Caitlin Vigno
I love that you asked this. So this actually was something that I had a big insight on after watching videos during good sex. Because there was one couple in particular, and as soon as they got into bed, they were at like, a 10, just, like, full out and about zero to 10. Zero to 10. And I was watching this going, how can I explain to them that if you don't really start at a one, you can't really enjoy all the stops up to the 10. Right. And if you start at a 10, there's nowhere to go. Because if you just. Then when you eventually have to, like, dial it back for one of those people, you feel like you're losing something. Right. It's like it feels like you're at a concert and suddenly they turn down the volume. That doesn't feel good. We want them, like, slowly turn up the volume until we have to put in our crescendo. Yes. So titration is the idea that you slowly add and slowly take away things over time. And what I like about this concept, especially in bed, is that it feels best, generally for our nervous systems when someone, like, approaches us in a way that, like, gradually adds more. Even if we've been together for 20 years, like, it feels best when we move up in intensity and in stimulation, and also that we move back down in intensity and stimulation. And that doesn't have to be one time over the course of an entire encounter. You could go up and then down and then up to a higher place, and then down and up to a higher place and down. And that's where variation comes in. And the idea is that in order to really stay engaged and create a. What I like to think of as, like, an erotic journey together as opposed to just a session that you're boning, that experimenting with both, like, increasing the crescendo and decrescendo and then also bringing those to, like, various heights, to various amounts of intensity and providing variation in the different ways that you're stimulating. You can use a B testing to figure out what kind of variation you want to bring in. Does she like this movement or that movement, or does she like this One. And at this speed or this speed, right?
- [20:10]
Rena Malik, M.D.
Yeah. You guys will have to watch to see how she moves.
- [20:11]
Caitlin Vigno
Yeah, Sorry, I'm a YouTuber, not a podcaster. So this is.
- [20:16]
Rena Malik, M.D.
She's an up and down, side to side, circular.
- [20:19]
Caitlin Vigno
And then really slow and then a little faster. Right. Which one did you like? A, balance, A, B, and then refine, refine, refine.
- [20:26]
Rena Malik, M.D.
And with your thumb, with your first finger.
- [20:27]
Caitlin Vigno
Exactly. Just test, test, test. You'll figure it all out if you just boldly and courageously test. And that does require a little bit of creativity. And that's why you keep coming back to sources of people that can share with you more ideas.
- [20:43]
Rena Malik, M.D.
To test.
- [20:43]
Caitlin Vigno
Right?
- [20:43]
Rena Malik, M.D.
Yeah.
- [20:45]
Caitlin Vigno
To put a cap on titration and variation. I think that, that. But I think I experience. And also the science says that when you experience the same repetitive motion at the same strength and the same speed over and over and over, your body quickly adapts to it and you no longer feel it in the same way as you did. It's just the same way that like if someone starts, you know, when someone maybe is like comforting you and they rub your arm a little bit or. And like after a few rubs, it either feels like kind of irritating or it kind of falls into the background.
- [21:17]
Rena Malik, M.D.
Yeah.
- [21:19]
Caitlin Vigno
These are the things that we don't want to happen during a sexual encounter. We want a sexual encounter to continue to surprise our bodies in such a way that they are moving closer and further away from orgasm, experiencing different kinds of pleasure. If you do this, you will leave both partners not just satisfied, but you. You will have done all of the things that we discussed along the way. It's easier to be present when things are changing. Right.
- [21:47]
Rena Malik, M.D.
Because there's.
- [21:47]
Caitlin Vigno
There's things to pay attention to. It's easier to reach higher states of arousal. It's easier to wait longer before you reach orgasm. It's easier to get into sync with another person when you are making little adjustments and changes to what you are doing along the way. You. You create the conditions that allow for that kind of sexual experience. And that's what I want everybody to have.
- [22:07]
Rena Malik, M.D.
I love that because I think that, I mean, so many people are just going 0 to 100. Right. Like there is no journey to be had because everyone is so focused. Climax. And look, orgasms are great, but the journey can be just as good.
- [22:20]
Caitlin Vigno
Yeah. And since orgasms are not always guaranteed, but the journey is always a part of the experience, if you focus on that, you're more likely to have the orgasm that you wanted anyways.
- [22:30]
Rena Malik, M.D.
If you liked that clip. Make sure to check out the full length episode on The Rena Malik, M.D. podcast with Caitlin Vigno.