Podcast Summary:

Rena Malik, MD Podcast
Episode: Moment: Is It Love or Trauma Bonding? How to Tell the Difference in Your Body
Date: December 10, 2025
Host: Dr. Rena Malik
Guest Expert: Jessica Baum (presumed; therapist and author)

Episode Overview

In this episode, Dr. Rena Malik and her guest, a psychotherapist and author (Jessica Baum) dive into the subtle and crucial differences between genuine love and trauma bonding in relationships. They unravel how our attachment styles, implicit memories, past traumas, and bodily responses can influence who we’re drawn to, how we connect, and whether we’re pursuing intimacy or simply seeking to self-soothe. The conversation emphasizes practical ways to identify these patterns within ourselves, steps toward healing, and the biological and societal factors shaping modern relationships.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Healing and Attachment Styles in Relationships

• Hope for Growth (00:30):
  • Even if one partner displays erratic, jealous, or avoidant behaviors, healing is possible—often through professional support and, importantly, through healthy, secure relationships.
  • Quote (00:54):
    "We all heal in relationships. So what was wounded in early infancy essentially gets healed in healthy relationships when we get older." — Jessica
• Projection vs. Self-Awareness:
  • Problems arise when we lack awareness and project issues onto our partner, escalating conflict rather than addressing core wounds.
  • Quote (01:33):
    "We usually blame our partner and get stuck in a lot of conflicts rather than, ‘Oh my God, this is also some terror that has lived in my body that is showing up when you're doing this behavior.’"

2. Implicit Memory and Bodily Reactions

• What is Implicit Memory? (01:46–02:48):
  • Implicit memory refers to sensations and bodily memories formed before we develop explicit (narrative) memories, typically before age four.
  • Relationship triggers—like an unreturned text—can awaken these deep, pre-verbal memories, felt as gut drops, racing heart, or anxiety.
  • Quote (02:34):
    "What's happening in the here and now is also waking up sensational memory, and just the awareness that this is memory too shifts your relationship with what's going on in your body, and starts the healing process."

3. Attachment Styles and Sexual Relationships

• Attachment Style Manifestations in Sex (02:48–04:17):
  • Secure individuals approach sex with curiosity and openness; avoidant or anxious people often rush into physical intimacy or use it as self-soothing.
  • Intensity in sex doesn't always equal intimacy; the abandonment wound can fuel a lot of sex but not deep connection.
  • Quote (03:32):
    "The anxious-avoidant cycle can actually be a relationship full of a lot of intensity and a lot of sex, but maybe not a lot of intimacy."

4. Building True Intimacy and Safety

• Intimacy as Self-Sharing (04:32–04:59):
  • Intimacy develops by sharing what's inside, especially vulnerabilities and responses, not just acting out surface needs.
  • Quote (04:35):
    "Are we having these deeper conversations together, or we just acting out our needs?"
• Blueprint of Safety (05:12–07:06):
  • Our sense of safety and attachment is shaped in infancy; secure upbringing primes us to expect our needs to be met and form secure bonds later.
  • Relearning security in adulthood often requires new, dependable relationships—romantic or platonic.

5. Healing While Single and Finding Anchors

• Healing Beyond Romance (07:06–08:14):
  • Healing attachment wounds isn’t limited to romantic contexts; safe friends and community members can be anchors, helping to internalize safety and regulation.
  • Quote (07:44):
    "There's so much agency in that as well. You can heal in a lot of different relationships. It does not have to be your romantic relationship."

6. Recognizing and Interrupting Unhealthy Attraction Patterns

• Self-Awareness and Familiarity (08:14–09:28):
  • Without healing, we’re ‘magnets’ to the familiar, often pursuing relationships that mirror unresolved parental patterns.
  • Quote (08:35):
    "We are like magnets to the familiar. So if you keep being pulled towards a similar kind of woman or man, there's deeper healing that needs to happen."
• Intensity Isn’t Always Love (10:11–11:32):
  • Extremely intense, ‘all-consuming’ relationships often stem from trauma bonds. The body’s neurochemistry can mislead us into believing this is genuine love.
  • Quote (10:28):
    "If someone is consuming you and it's all consuming like that, that's intensity, that's not intimacy. So for starters, slow down."

7. Listening to the Body as a Guide

• Bodily Cues (11:32–12:41):

  • Noticing bodily signals (racing heart, anxiety) can reveal activation of old wounds; paying attention helps distinguish between trauma and secure attraction.
  • Quote (12:08):
    "...your body will react in certain ways that you can actually take note of. Maybe your heart is racing, maybe you're breathing a little heavier, maybe you're feeling some tension in your muscles..."

• Secure Partners as Healers (12:41–13:11):

  • A secure partner’s calm, loving response can help heal activation over time, whereas avoidant partners tend to perpetuate the anxious-avoidant cycle.

8. Patterns, Technology, and Societal Shifts

• Attachment in the Age of Screens (17:30–18:59):
  • Modern life—with greater screen use, focus on achievement, and less community—trends toward more avoidant attachment, chronic loneliness, and left-brain dominance.
  • Quote (19:02):
    "As our culture focuses on success and achievement and we become more detached...our brains are moving more in an avoidant way."
• Community and Mental Health (23:19–24:30):
  • Cultures prioritizing community show higher secure attachment and better mental health; connection is biologically necessary for human thriving.

9. Finding and Becoming Anchors (21:13–24:30):

• Finding 'Right Brain' People (21:13–22:15):
  • Look for people who are present, non-judgmental, who can sit with you emotionally, and whose nervous system feels steady and safe.
  • Quote (21:17):
    "Someone who can be really present most of the time. So they still get dysregulated. They don't show up perfectly. They don't judge you, they don't fix with you..."
• It's Not About Quantity, but Quality (22:22–23:19):
  • One truly safe relationship can change your relational patterns and help you attract or notice more safety elsewhere.

10. Letting Go and Moving Toward Safety

• Leaving Familiar but Unhealthy Relationships (24:30–26:50):
  • It’s hard and slow to let go of unhealthy but familiar people; healing and building new safety happens gradually and often non-linearly.
  • Quote (25:02):
    "As you start to heal, it's not about necessarily getting rid of people. You do need safe environments and safe people. But it's about bringing what is coming up in you to a safe person and using that as a catalyst for your healing."

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "We all heal in relationships." — Jessica (00:55)
• "So for starters, slow down, because are we really getting to know this person?" — Jessica (10:17)
• "Intensity sometimes...leads to trauma bonding." — Jessica (10:47)
• "Your nervous system needs to depend on one person. It starts with one anchor, one person who has this quality." — Jessica (22:36)
• "The quality of our relationships determine the quality of our life." — Jessica (24:09)

Key Timestamps

• 00:30: How secure/avoidant/anxious behaviors manifest and how healing works in relationships
• 01:46: Defining implicit memory and its role in relational triggers
• 02:48: Attachment styles and sexual coping vs. genuine intimacy
• 05:12: How childhood safety blueprints shape adult attachment
• 07:17: Healing attachment wounds when single; finding non-romantic anchors
• 10:11: Recognizing when attraction is trauma bonding, not love
• 13:11: How texting and digital miscommunications can trigger old wounds
• 18:02: Impact of technology and modernity on attachment and loneliness
• 21:17: What makes a healthy, ‘right-brain’ anchor person, and how to find one
• 24:30: Moving away from unhealthy relationships and toward secure connections

Tone & Language

Both Dr. Malik and the guest speak openly, compassionately, and with a grounding in both science and lived experience. The conversation is validating, with frequent reminders that healing is a process and that building secure, fulfilling relationships takes time, patience, and support—whether from professionals, friends, or chosen family.

Actionable Takeaways

• Slow down when attraction feels all-consuming; intensity isn’t always a sign of healthy love.
• Pay attention to bodily signals—these are windows into old implicit memories being activated.
• Build your circle of anchors: Seek out at least one person who feels consistently safe, present, and non-judgmental.
• Healing is possible even outside of romantic relationships—community and friendships count.
• Recognize that letting go of unhealthy familiar relationships takes time—be compassionate with yourself during the process.

For more detailed insights, tune in to the full conversation with Dr. Rena Malik and Jessica Baum.