Podcast Summary: "Justinian and Gregory"
Renewing Your Mind (Ligonier Ministries) — January 22, 2026
Host: Nathan W. Bingham
Speaker: Dr. W. Robert Godfrey
Overview
In this episode, Dr. W. Robert Godfrey explores two pivotal figures of the early Middle Ages: Emperor Justinian and Pope Gregory I ("the Great"). The discussion focuses on how their leadership and policies shaped the development of Western civilization and the medieval Church, marking crucial transitions in the power dynamics between the Roman Empire and the rising influence of the papacy. Dr. Godfrey provides historical context, examines their contributions, and analyzes theological shifts with a view toward understanding their relevance for today’s Christian faith and practice.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. The Decline of the Roman Empire and the Search for Continuity
- Situation in the 6th Century:
- The Western Roman Empire was losing its cohesion and influence ([00:00]).
- People in the West experienced decentralization and sought sources of stability and continuity.
- Rise of the Papacy:
- Amidst social upheaval, the papacy emerged as a trusted institution.
- "Where can we look for continuity? Who will provide assurance that things are continuing? And it was to the papacy that they looked." (Dr. Godfrey, [00:05])
2. Emperor Justinian: The Last of the Romans and the “Byzantine” Transition
- Justinian's Reign (527–565):
- Conducted from Constantinople; marked both end and new beginning: the shift into Byzantine era ([01:07]).
- Religious Policy & Theological Controversy:
- Justinian insisted on Christian orthodoxy following the Council of Chalcedon (451).
- Combatting the Monophysite heresy (claiming Christ had only one nature), he sought Christian unity, but caused further tensions.
- "Justinian was determined that this heresy would not dominate in the empire and worked hard to stamp it out." ([01:07])
- Church Building and Patronage:
- Major patron of Christian architecture, e.g. Hagia Sophia (completed 537), Church of the Apostles, Basilica of St. John in Ephesus, churches in Ravenna.
- "The dome seemed to float above the earth. And it was an amazing experience." ([01:07])
- Iconic mosaics—like that of Justinian in Ravenna—remain as testaments.
- Suppression of Paganism:
- Closed the ancient Platonic Academy in Athens (529), symbolizing resolve for a Christian empire.
- Legal Reforms:
- Codification of Roman law (Justinian's Code—a foundation of later Western legal theory).
- Military Endeavors:
- Sought to reconquer Italy from “barbarians”—though many were Christianized and Romanized.
- The narrative of the “end” of the Western Roman Empire in 476 solidified under Justinian’s reign for political purposes.
- "If you're emperor, you get to help write the history and things can turn out better than they actually did." ([01:07])
- East vs. West:
- Justinian’s reconquests often felt like foreign occupations in Italy, foreshadowing deeper East-West division.
- Lasting Byzantine (Eastern) presence in Italy until the mid-8th century.
3. Pope Gregory I ("the Great"): Shaper of Medieval Papacy
- Early Life and Rise to Pope:
- Born in 540 into a wealthy Roman family, Gregory embraced monasticism after renouncing his fortune.
- Appointed as papal ambassador to Constantinople before reluctantly becoming pope in 590 ([01:07]).
- Role as Bishop of Rome:
- Steered the papacy toward increasing independence and influence, particularly in the West.
- Provided administrative, liturgical, and moral leadership, leaving a permanent imprint on Catholic identity.
- Legacy as "Doctor of the Church":
- Listed among the four great Doctors of the Western Church (Jerome, Augustine, Ambrose, Gregory).
- Godfrey remarks: "One is tempted to say there were actually three great doctors..."—implying Gregory’s main importance is leadership and organization rather than theological innovation ([01:07]).
- In Reformation eyes, notably Philip Melanchthon, Gregory "was the torch bearer of the new theology that would lead the Church astray."
- Godfrey: "Many other Protestants looked back to Gregory as the point at which the Church began to move somewhat astray from the direction of theology that Augustine had set." ([01:07])
- Formation of Medieval Christianity:
- Gregory reinforced a view of salvation emphasizing grace, but also continual struggle and uncertainty, as opposed to Augustine's clearer doctrine of "grace alone."
- Notably, for Gregory: salvation was by grace (initially received at baptism) but required constant effort, repentance, and use of church sacraments.
- Memorable Letter (Paraphrased): When a noblewoman requested assurance of salvation, Gregory wrote back: "It would not be good for you to know that you're saved. It is good that you live in doubt about your salvation, so that it's a motivation for you to keep working, to keep struggling, to keep laboring, so that you will never be presumptuous in your relationship with God, but that you'll always be seeking more grace." ([around 20:30])
4. Theological Shift: Grace, Assurance, and the Medieval Church
- Augustinian vs. Gregory's Theology:
- Augustine: "We are saved by grace alone."
- Gregory: "We are saved by grace alone mostly"—emphasizing the believer’s ongoing struggle.
- Godfrey: "If you like yourself and think your theology is pretty good, that you would think the difference between saved by grace alone and saved by grace alone mostly is not much of a change. Right?" ([~18:30])
- Impact:
- Medieval Christians lived with little assurance of salvation, making the Church essential for grace throughout life.
5. Foundations for the Middle Ages
- Justinian and Gregory laid the groundwork for the distinctive structures and tensions—imperial vs. papal—in medieval Europe.
- Dr. Godfrey offers a preview: "We'll see it over and over again as we go through the Middle Ages, that everyone in the west wanted to say we are Augustinian, but we don't really agree with him on certain particular things." ([~19:30])
Memorable Quotes & Moments
-
On the search for reassurance:
"Where can we look for continuity? Who will provide assurance that things are continuing? And it was to the papacy that they looked."
— Dr. Godfrey ([00:05]) -
On the division of empire:
"It's very interesting that it was a historian, Marcellinus in Justinian's court who in his chronicle first declared that the Western Roman Empire had ended in 476. He's the only ancient historian or early medieval historian who ever said that. But that observation ... has stayed with us down till today."
— Dr. Godfrey ([~09:20]) -
On Augustine versus Gregory:
"Augustine taught that we are saved by grace alone... and the later medieval Augustinians, many of them taught, we are saved by grace alone mostly."
— Dr. Godfrey ([~18:25]) -
On living with theological uncertainty:
"It would not be good for you to know that you're saved. It is good that you live in doubt about your salvation, so that it's a motivation for you to keep working, to keep struggling, to keep laboring..."
— Gregory I (as paraphrased by Godfrey, [~20:30])
Notable Timestamps
- 00:00–01:07 — Introduction to the historical context and themes
- 01:07–13:00 — Emperor Justinian: reign, religious policies, legal reforms, military campaigns
- 13:00–21:45 — Pope Gregory I: biography, theological contributions, influence on the papacy and Western Church
- 18:25–20:30 — Theological contrast: Augustine and Gregory; the shift from clear assurance to ongoing struggle for grace
- 20:30–21:45 — Gregory’s advice on doubt, encouraging perseverance
Tone and Approach
Dr. Godfrey’s style is amiable and insightful, regularly drawing connections between past and present and reflecting on how these historical figures influence contemporary Christian thought. His teaching is characterized by clarity, gentle humor (e.g., on Justinian’s mosaic: “He looks like he needs a shave…”), and a pastoral concern for doctrinal integrity.
Conclusion
The episode offers a nuanced look at how Justinian’s imperial ambitions and Gregory’s papal leadership laid the foundational patterns for medieval society and religious life. In tracing their impact, Dr. Godfrey highlights the developing tension between a Church claiming both spiritual and — eventually — political authority, setting the stage for later developments in Western civilization and Reformation debates over grace and assurance.